[LUTE] Re: Sorting pieces for compilation

[Miles Dempster]

Maybe difficulty could be a criterion. Put the difficult ones first so that you 
are more likely to practice them.


Miles




> On Aug 9, 2019, at 8:36 PM, Tristan von Neumann  
> wrote:
> 
> Haha :)
> 
> Nice one, but I already have a hard time choosing the pieces.
> 
> There are just so many good ones. :)
> 
> So all pieces finally ending up in the book are "5/5 stars" or "perfect
> 10s".
> 
> 
> 
> On 10.08.19 02:34, Miles Dempster wrote:
>> How about ordering in ascending/descending order of your ‘favouriteness’ ;-)
>> 
>> Miles
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 9, 2019, at 7:28 PM, Tristan von Neumann  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Here's a "problem" to which any ideas are welcome:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I'm preparing a lute book for myself that shall contain all my favourite
>>> pieces, about 500 pages.
>>> 
>>> I am still struggling with the order the pieces.
>>> 
>>> Apart from solvable problems like page turns of pieces with more than 2
>>> pages, I am not sure what concept is the best.
>>> 
>>> There's plenty of possibilities:
>>> 
>>> * by date of sources - useful for experiencing history, offers a nice
>>> mixture of genres within
>>> 
>>> * in alphabetical order of the composer (though this would make A as in
>>> anonymous the biggest part...)
>>> 
>>> * by country of origin
>>> 
>>> * by genre (as in historical prints - Fantasies, Chansons and Madrigals,
>>> Motets, Dances)
>>> 
>>> * a mixture of those above
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Any experiences/suggestions are welcome.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> :)
>>> T*
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: Sorting pieces for compilation

[Miles Dempster]

How about ordering in ascending/descending order of your ‘favouriteness’ ;-)

Miles




> On Aug 9, 2019, at 7:28 PM, Tristan von Neumann  
> wrote:
> 
> Here's a "problem" to which any ideas are welcome:
> 
> 
> I'm preparing a lute book for myself that shall contain all my favourite
> pieces, about 500 pages.
> 
> I am still struggling with the order the pieces.
> 
> Apart from solvable problems like page turns of pieces with more than 2
> pages, I am not sure what concept is the best.
> 
> There's plenty of possibilities:
> 
> * by date of sources - useful for experiencing history, offers a nice
> mixture of genres within
> 
> * in alphabetical order of the composer (though this would make A as in
> anonymous the biggest part...)
> 
> * by country of origin
> 
> * by genre (as in historical prints - Fantasies, Chansons and Madrigals,
> Motets, Dances)
> 
> * a mixture of those above
> 
> 
> Any experiences/suggestions are welcome.
> 
> 
> :)
> T*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: octave strings

[Miles Dempster]

It was probably not Michael SchaefferI in his recording Die Barocklaute III, as 
far as I can tell he does not use octave stringing at all on his diapasons.


Miles




> On Jul 31, 2019, at 6:42 PM, Christopher Stetson 
>  wrote:
> 
>   Hi, all.
>   I remember being told some time ago, by someone who should have known,
>   that one of the early German greats (Gerwig, Schaeffer, or Dombois, but
>   I think Gerwig) used that stringing, but I both can't remember and
>   don't know if it was from historical precedent (I doubt it) or simple
>   personal preference (probably, as Jean-Marie posits above).   It's not
>   that long ago, I suspect someone will remember, or will be able and
>   interested enough to figure it out from recordings.
>   Best, and keep playing.
>   Chris.
> 
>   On Wed, Jul 31, 2019 at 4:22 PM Mathias Rösel
>   <[1]mathias.roe...@t-online.de > wrote:
> 
>Seems to be like on the baroque guitar. Never done that on a
> lute.
>Mathias
> 
> __
>Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
>--- Original-Nachricht ---
>Von: Lex Eisenhardt
>Betreff: [LUTE] octave strings
>Datum: 31.07.2019, 20:41 Uhr
>An: 'Lute List'
>Anyone tried this method of octave string placement?
>[1][2][2]https://www.thekremercollection.com/theodoor-rombouts/ 
> 
> (press +
>to enlarge)
>--
>References
>1. [3][3]https://www.thekremercollection.com/theodoor-rombouts/ 
> 
>To get on or off this list see list information at
>[4][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 
> 
>--
> References
>1.
> [5]https://kommunikationsdienste.t-online.de/redirects/email_app_and 
> 
> roid_sendmail_footer
>2. [6]https://www.thekremercollection.com/theodoor-rombouts 
> 
>3. [7]https://www.thekremercollection.com/theodoor-rombouts 
> 
>4. [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 
> 
> 
>   --
> 
> References
> 
>   1. mailto:mathias.roe...@t-online.de 
>   2. https://www.thekremercollection.com/theodoor-rombouts/ 
> 
>   3. https://www.thekremercollection.com/theodoor-rombouts/ 
> 
>   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 
> 
>   5. 
> https://kommunikationsdienste.t-online.de/redirects/email_app_android_sendmail_footer
>  
> 
>   6. https://www.thekremercollection.com/theodoor-rombouts 
> 
>   7. https://www.thekremercollection.com/theodoor-rombouts 
> 
>   8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 
> 

--

[LUTE] Re: Plucking Room

[Miles Dempster]

Violins, violas etc. don’t have frets.  When plucked (rather than bowed) the 
string vibration is dampened by the soft fingertip at the stopped end. I don’t 
think that the sustain depends significantly on how the bridge connects to the 
soundboard.

Miles




> On Jun 30, 2019, at 9:01 AM, Edward Mast 
>  wrote:
> 
> A good question, Dr. Mardinly.  What one notices, though, is that when 
> violins, violas, cellos and string basses have their strings plucked rather 
> than bowed, the sustain of the note is short (string basses doing by far the 
> best, and violins doing the worst with pizzicato - plucked notes).  It thus 
> seems to me that the method of having the strings stretched over a non-fixed 
> bridge as they are for the bowed instruments, works very well for 
> transmitting the vibrations of the strings to the instrument when they are 
> bowed, and not so well at all when they’re plucked.  The fixed bridges with 
> strings attached as on guitars, lutes, etc. seems to be the best way of 
> transmitting the vibrations to the instrument when the strings are plucked, 
> rather than bowed.
> A luthier’s explanation of this would be welcome.
> Ned
> 
>> On Jun 29, 2019, at 3:50 PM, John Mardinly  wrote:
>> 
>> Spot on explanation of what physics does to sound boards. The big question 
>> that I have never had answered is why do plucked string instruments have the 
>> string tension carried by the soundboard itself, instead of having the 
>> string tension carried by the body of the instrument via a tailpiece the way 
>> violins, violas, cellos and string basses do?
>> 
>> A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: looking for concordances

[Miles Dempster]

Hello Luca,

I’d love to share a glass of cold Verdeca with you but I’m stuck in 
Montreal for the moment!

If you are looking for concordances perhaps the work has already been done by 
Victor Coelho:

https://books.google.ca/books/about/The_Manuscript_Sources_of_Seventeenth_ce.html?id=7jqWQgAACAAJ&redir_esc=y
 


Miles




> On Jun 21, 2019, at 10:48 AM, utchug  wrote:
> 
> Good morning everyone,
> 
> for a check on concordances of the “Libro di Leuto di Gioseppe Antonio 
> Doni”,
> I am looking for a facsimile of the following manuscripts, (whole books or 
> just the pages with concordant pieces).
> 
> 
> F-Pn Rés. Vmd ms. 29  -  Toccata detta il Moretti (il Merone?) f.5
> 
> I-Tn Riserva Musica IV, 23/2, f.10v
> 
> I-Nc ms. 7664 - old signature 35.I.24 (Francesco Quartiron book) - Corrente 
> detta la Honesta, f.21v
> 
> 
> In exchange I offer aperitif and glass of cold Verdeca (white wine) to those 
> who want to pass by and to spend time in Lecce. ;-)
> 
> Thank you,
> Luca Tarantino
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


--

[LUTE] Lutebooks

[Miles Dempster]

Dear luters,

I am pruning my collection of lute materials and have some items that you may 
be interested in.

Here is a link to my Dropbox folder with images of some of the items.

If you interested, please contact me ‘off-list’.

Best


Miles Dempster

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0dxhokjhqldio7w/AAA1Y81UveN2U3zbuJa4RLyUa?dl=0





> On May 2, 2019, at 2:49 AM, Sean Smith  wrote:
> 
>   Jo Bringmann"s list of facsimiles lists two sources for the Cythara
>   Sacra.
>   *[1]http://www.jobringmann.de/facsimile-links
> 
>   On Wed, May 1, 2019, 11:28 PM Mathias Rösel
>   <[2]mathias.roe...@t-online.de> wrote:
> 
>Not easy to read, c and e almost undiscernible at many places.
>Digitalised copies would be great help.
>There must be facsimile files of Reymann online somewhere,
> though,
>because I've g got one.
>Mathias
> 
> __
>Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
>--- Original-Nachricht ---
>Von: Susan Price
>Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Reymann
>Datum: 02.05.2019, 4:23 Uhr
>An: [3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>I see that OMI has a nice facsimile of Reymann for $111.00.
> Should I
>purchase?
>Susan
> Original message 
>From: Dan Winheld <[2][4]dwinh...@lmi.net>
>Date: 5/1/19 7:27 PM (GMT-07:00)
>To: magnus andersson <[3][5]maan7...@yahoo.com>, Tristan von
> Neumann
><[4][6]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>, [5][7]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>Subject: [LUTE] Re: Reymann
>Congratulations Tristan and Magnus- you have gotten me interested
> in
>getting Reymann's "Noctes"; unfortunately my eyesight has
> degraded to
>the point where I can no longer read facsimiles. Are there any
> modern
>typeset editions? (Any tab system or pitch notation- just has to
> be
>legible to ancient eyes)
>Thanks for any leads-
>Dan
>On 4/26/2019 10:19 PM, magnus andersson wrote:
>> Dear Tristan,
>> 
>> I have played some Reymann in concert. His Noctes collection is
>indeed
>> one of the finest collections of lute music that's come down to
>us.
>> 
>> His galliardas are among the the most virtuouso pieces in the
>whole
>> repertoire.
>> 
>> He must have been a very accomplished musician!
>> 
>> I hope to record some of his music in the future. His Cythara
>sacra is
>> a great pendant to Noctes. Much more meditative and less
>technically
>> demanding.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Magnus
>> [1]Skickat frï ¿ ½Ã¯ ¿ ½Ã¯ ¿ ½Ã¯ ¿ ½Ã¯ ¿ ½Ã¯ ¿ ½Ã¯ ¿ ½Ã¯ ¿ ½n
> Yahoo Mail
>fï ¿ ½Ã¯ ¿ ½Ã¯ ¿ ½Ã¯ ¿ ½Ã¯ ¿ ½Ã¯ ¿ ½Ã¯ ¿ ½Ã¯ ¿ ½r iPhone
>> 
>> Den fredag, april 26, 2019, 10:29 em, skrev Tristan von Neumann
>> <[6][8]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>:
>> 
>> Just got my hands on Noctes Musicae 1598 by Matthaeus Reymann.
>> 
>> Has anyone played it?
>> 
>> I am amazed that there is absolutely no recording of this
> amazing
>very
>> 
>> original music.
>> 
>> The collection has huge choral and other fantasies with lots of
>great
>> 
>> ideas, and especially pavans that rival the fantastic treatment
>of
>> 
>> Daniel Batchelar's - these aren't dances anymore, but fantasies
>ordered
>> 
>> by the pavan model.
>> 
>> The best thing: the difficulty is not that high compared to the
>effect:
>> 
>> the fingering is very logical and doesn't distract from the
>beauty of
>> 
>> the pieces.
>> 
>> Huge recommendation.
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> 
>> [2][7][9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> References
>> 
>> 1. [8][10]https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS
>> 2.
> [9][11]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> 
>> 
>--
> References
>1.
> [12]https://kommunikationsdienste.t-online.de/redirects/email_app_an
> droid_sendmail_footer
>2. mailto:[13]dwinh...@lmi.net
>3. mailto:[14]maan7...@yahoo.com
>4. mailto:[15]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
>5. mailto:[16]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>6. mailto:[17]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de
>7. [18]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>   

[LUTE] Re: Chanterelle

[Miles Dempster]

The so called ‘carbon’ strings are made of a material which is denser/heavier 
than nylon.
Hence, for the same tension and pitch, the string will be thinner in gauge and 
consequently tone. A ‘carbon’ string is likely to be a better choice to use in 
the place of a string whose tone is too dull i.e. the fundamental of a 3rd or 
4th course, especially when not using octave stringing. 
 My $.02!

Miles Dempster




> On Jan 12, 2019, at 6:39 PM, Dan Winheld  wrote:
> 
> The one string/course where a carbon fiber has never worked for me. Too harsh 
> is a good term.
> 
> Dan Winheld
> 
> On 1/12/2019 2:06 PM, Mayes, Joseph wrote:
>> My $.02
>> I find the carbon chanterelle to be on the "harsh" side.
>> 
>> Joseph Mayes
>> 
>> From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf of Wim 
>> Loos 
>> Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2019 4:08 PM
>> To: LuteNet list
>> Subject: [LUTE] Chanterelle
>> 
>>Dear all,
>>I ´m looking to string my 7c renaissance lute, string length 60cm
>>(a=415) again. In this moment I use nylgut and pyramid wound strings.
>>Only the chanterelle is nylon while the nylgut string was broken.
>>I considder to use carbon for the chanterelle, does anybody know if is
>>this a good alternative.
>>I hope jou can give me a advise what to do.
>>Thanks in advance,
>>Wim Loos
>> 
>>--
>> 
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: String tech

[Miles Dempster]

1. Hang the string from a hook or door handle, attach an object on the other 
end which weighs approximately the same as the tension when tuned up on the 
lute.

2. Take a rag or paper towel (folded up) and squeeze a bit of Crazy Glue on it.

3. Quickly pass the ‘moistened’  part of the rag down the string from the top 
to the bottom end, so as to distribute the glue to penetrate. NB Avoid getting 
your fingers stuck with the glue, if stuck then acetone will dissolve it.

4. Unattach the string and install it on the lute.

PS This method was suggested to me by Eliott Chapin.


Miles




> On Jan 19, 2018, at 12:52 PM, Mathias Rösel  
> wrote:
> 
> Almond oil, rather.
> 
> Mathias
> 
> 
> 
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag
> von Bruno Cognyl-Fournier
> Gesendet: Freitag, 19. Januar 2018 18:50
> An: Leonard Williams
> Cc: Lute List
> Betreff: [LUTE] Re: String tech
> 
>   I believe some people put a dab of glue and quickly run their fingers
>   on the string to glue the stray fibres onto the string
> 
>   2018-01-19 12:45 GMT-05:00 Leonard Williams <[1]arc...@verizon.net>:
> 
> Has anyone come up with a technique to increase the life of gut
> trebles?   (besides switching to synthetics!) I get stray fibers
> very shortly after installing oneâstill playable but the tone and
> intonation suffer.
> Thanks!
> Leonard Williams
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
>   --
> 
> References
> 
>   1. mailto:arc...@verizon.net
>   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: Chromatic lute works

[Miles Dempster]

Here’s one…

Fantasia XXV by Gio. Battista dalla Gostena

from
Intavolatura di Liuto di Simone Molinaro - Libro Primo (1599) 

Miles




> On Dec 16, 2017, at 4:06 PM, G. C.  wrote:
> 
>   I imagine there is not a great number of chromatic lute pieces
>   available. Dowland and Aegidius come to mind, as well as the Phillips
>   dolorosa pavan. Has someone yet surveyed the available ones?
>   G.
> 
>   --
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


--

[LUTE] Re: A stringing question for Sellas E. 545

[Miles Dempster]

Would it be an acceptable solution, for the 7th course, to make an exception 
and use an octave string whose density is less than that of gut? A nylon octave 
would have a thickness of .4mm or more. In the grand scheme of things would it 
sound out of place in comparison to the remaining diapasons with their gut 
octaves?


Miles




> On Dec 13, 2017, at 5:02 AM, Martin Shepherd  wrote:
> 
> The problem with having unisons on 7, 8, etc is how far to go before the 
> transition to octaves, and how noticeable that transition is going to be.  
> Good luck, Magnus!
> 
> BTW, does anyone have a really good reproduction of the Puget they could 
> share?  I only have a very indistinct one.
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: A stringing question for Sellas E. 545

[Miles Dempster]

If I were to string-up Magnus’ double-strung diapasons, I wouldn’t bother with 
octaves on the 7th (and probably 8th) course. At that length (130cm) and pitch 
they will sound bright enough. - just string them in unisons.

Miles




> On Dec 12, 2017, at 8:21 AM, Martin Shepherd  wrote:
> 
> Sorry I didn't make myself clear.
> 
> When thinking about English theorbo, I was thinking about the viability of 
> the lowest basses (at say 130cm).  On a typical swan-neck lute, the lowest 
> course would be tuned to AA at a likely pitch of around a'=392 and be perhaps 
> 99cm long, so this might be a better comparison.  This comparison suggests 
> that the 130cm bass on the theorbo would be fine.
> 
> The other issue is whether the 7th course octave is too thin to be viable (I 
> can imagine a diameter of about .70mm for the low octave, but that implies 
> .35mm for the high octave).  I've temporarily lost my string calculator, but 
> Martyn Hodgson's estimate of .34mm seems reasonable.  But .34mm is at least 
> 20% thinner than the smallest diameter that we think the Old Ones could have 
> made (we could be wrong about this, but even if such a string could be made 
> it is hard to imagine it being any use for anything, as Matthew says).
> 
> So it seems to me that Magnus' potential problem is how to string the upper 
> octaves of the 7th (and also probably 8th) course.
> 
> Martin
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: A stringing question for Sellas E. 545

[Miles Dempster]

Hi Magnus,

Do you really need to use octave stringing throughout?

For your 7th and 8th courses, for example, the diameter of the fundamental for 
a string length of 1300mm should give enough clarity of sound for there not to 
be a need for an octave to brighten it further.

To my ear, the discontinuity in sound on a typical single strung theorbo that 
occurs between the lowest string on the fingerboard and the first diapason is a 
bit harsh (and there is no question of an octave!).

Just my 2 cents worth.


Miles




> On Dec 11, 2017, at 12:15 PM, Bruno Cognyl-Fournier  
> wrote:
> 
>   well when SOFRACOB still existed, you could cut your own length since
>   he sent them in lengtes of more than 3 meters..
>   Woul Dan Larson provide strings that that long? or Mimmo Peruffo if you
>   go Nylgut?
>   Bruno
> 
>   2017-12-11 11:42 GMT-05:00 Magnus Andersson <[1]magnusl...@gmail.com>:
> 
>Hi all,
>sorry for the confusion!
>The diapasons are 1300 mm long,
>but I ´d need a bit more than that to be able to knot them
> properly.
>Best,
>Magnus
>On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 5:41 PM, howard posner
><[1][2]howardpos...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 11, 2017, at 8:23 AM, Magnus Andersson
>  <[2][3]magnusl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 8 double strings for the diapasons, at 1300 mm.
>>It was probably shortened sometime from its original
> length
>>into this present condition.
>>The problem that arises is when one wants to string the
> upper
>  courses
>>of the diapasons. Here one needs very thin strings
> beginning
>  with
>>0.40-0.42
>>for the high string of the 7th course Gg, at the string
> length
>  of ca.
>>1500 mm...
>  Are the diapasons 1300 or 1500?
>To get on or off this list see list information at
>[3][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>--
> References
>1. mailto:[5]howardpos...@ca.rr.com
>2. mailto:[6]magnusl...@gmail.com
>3. [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
>   --
> 
> References
> 
>   1. mailto:magnusl...@gmail.com
>   2. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
>   3. mailto:magnusl...@gmail.com
>   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>   5. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
>   6. mailto:magnusl...@gmail.com
>   7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 

[LUTE] Re: Italian ornaments

[Miles Dempster]

Maybe Victor Coelho has published something on this.
For example:

Performance on Lute, Guitar, and Vihuela: Historical Practice and Modern 
Interpretation

Miles




> On Jun 16, 2017, at 2:51 PM, Leonard Williams  wrote:
> 
>   Some time ago Stan Beutens published a neat little analysis of
> ornamentation symbols in English manuscripts.  Is there anything
> comparable for the 16th c. Italian works?  Or, since I don't really notice
> much of
> ornament notation in the Italian work, is there at least a guide to where
> and how to embellish appropriately?  Purely intuitive?
> 
> Thanks and regards,
> Leonard Williams
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


--

[LUTE] Re: Continuo: Score vs Part; also Page-Turners

[Miles Dempster]

Hello Edward,

There have been positive comments on this list about using a tablet and 
foot-operated page turner.
I’m thinking adopting this solution when the next iPad Pro is released, which I 
believe will be within a few weeks.


Miles




> On Mar 15, 2017, at 9:25 AM, Edward Chrysogonus Yong  
> wrote:
> 
>   Dear Lutenetters who play basso continuo,
>   Is there a preference either way for playing from bass part or full
>   score, assuming both have the same figures?
>   I find that playing from a score means I can get my bearings better but
>   have to flip pages more, no easy task when both hands are occupied with
>   playing. That's when I sometimes wish I either played from a bass part
>   to reduce page turns or had a page-turner. Does anyone use a
>   page-turner?
>   Curious to hear your thoughts.
>   From sunny Singapore,
>   Edward C. Yong
>   
>   τούτο ηλεκτρονικόν ταχυδρομείον εκ είΦωνου εμεύ επέμφθη.
>   Hæ litteræ electronicæ ab iPhono missæ sunt.
>   此電子郵件發送于自吾iPhone。
>   This e-mail was sent from my iPhone.
> 
>   --
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: basses in octaves

[Miles Dempster]

Mimmo,

Just to see if I have understood you correctly, please confirm or correct the 
following statement, which tries to put your explanation in another way:

If you want to have the octave at the same tension as the fundamental, you must 
choose a string whose thickness (before it is stretched) would apparently lead 
to 5% more tension. Once it is stretched, it will become thinner, and less 
tension will be needed to achieve the desired pitch. In summary, when choosing 
the string, try to estimate how thick it will need to be when under tension.


Miles




> On Mar 1, 2017, at 3:30 AM, Mimmo Peruffo  wrote:
> 
> I have another opinion.In order to preserve the so called equal feel of 
> tension the octave string of the two of the course must have more tension 
> then the bass string.  I suggest around 5% more. Why? because even if you 
> calculated the two strings of the course with the same tension the thin 
> octave string lost more percentage of its gauge than the thicker bass string. 
> this mean that, when it is tuned, the real tension is less. the octaave 
> string lost tension. In practice, you lost the equal feel of tension and the 
> two strings do not blend togheter in the best way giving the impression that 
> you are playing one string only.
> One must compensate this thing increasing the tension of a 5% almost: a 
> course so aranged is much more better.
> Mimmo
> 
> -Messaggio originale- From: Matthew Daillie
> Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 8:49 AM
> To: Dan Winheld
> Cc: Miles Dempster ; lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: basses in octaves
> 
> This is still very much a moot point. Some of the (numerous) interpretations 
> of the recent discoveryof a possible period stringing list lead to the 
> conclusion that octaves were strung at the same tension as fundamentals but 
> it certainly hasn't been proven as far as I know.
> I find that slightly less tension on the octaves of a well set-up lute works 
> fine if the strings don't have any defects (unfortunately a big 'if' 
> regarding bass strings).
> Best
> Matthew
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 1, 2017, at 2:07, Dan Winheld  wrote:
>> 
>> We now know that the gut octaves must be the same tension as the 
>> fundamentals for the whole system to work sonically & intonationally.
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 

[LUTE] Re: basses in octaves

[Miles Dempster]

Actually there is another solution to this. You’ll probably all think that I am 
crazy, but I’ll suggest it anyway since it is used by some guitar makers when 
crafting the nut, and might be applicable to lutes.

On my classical guitar (yes, I confess that I do actually play one 
occasionally...) I find that the biggest tuning ‘problem’ is the 3rd (thickest 
nylon) string. It’s the one that tends to be a little sharp. You get the 
instrument perfectly in tune for a C major chord only to find that the G sharp 
of an E major chord is too sharp, and so on as you go up the 3rd string.

I solved the problem by putting a small tastino about 1/8th inch in front of 
the nut. In fact its a bit of a toothpick wedged under the string. What is does 
is shorten the distance from the nut to the frets, so that all the fretted 
notes will be flattened slightly (compared to the other strings).

On a lute with double courses, you could do the same for the string (whether it 
be the fundamental or the octave) which goes sharper that the other.

Best

Miles




> On Feb 28, 2017, at 8:53 PM, fournierbru  wrote:
> 
>   Getting exact same tension between fundamental and octave is next to
>   impossible and ludicrous.   Of course that wouldn't have been a
>   possibility In the Renaissance and lutes must certainly have been out
>   of tune..but our modern ear wants otherwise.   My strings are not THAT
>   much different in tension..the elasticity of the loaded nylgut is the
>   main culprit..my options are going back to wound on the courses in
>   octaves that are on the fingerboard or go for unions and adjust the
>   frets.
> 
>   BRUNO
> 
>   Sent from my Bell Samsung device over Canada's largest network.
> 
>    Original message 
>   From: Dan Winheld 
>   Date: 2017-02-28 8:07 PM (GMT-05:00)
>   To: Miles Dempster , lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>   Subject: [LUTE] Re: basses in octaves
> 
>   On 2/28/2017 4:06 PM, Miles Dempster wrote:
>   "Maybe it could help if the octave is closer in tension to the
>   fundamental."
>   Bingo!- Miles wins. It became a custom to string lutes with absurdly
>   slack octaves early in the lute re-Renaissance, as they were
>   functionally useless; the overspun basses already being so overly heavy
>   on the harmonics. Until we started seriously playing with gut basses we
>   didn't even actually know the true purpose of the octave strings. (I
>   know I didn't!) We now know that the gut octaves must be the same
>   tension as the fundamentals for the whole system to work sonically &
>   intonationally.
> But if those new ones really are going flat going up the neck, yes
>   that's a deal breaker on any fingered bass courses. I have not yet
>   tried the new CD loadeds- it sure seems counter intuitive that the
>   thick string would go flat as it frets up the fingerboard (if it is not
>   false!). Too flexible- very interesting- are we stringing to loosely? I
>   remember attempting to use thick, stiff, low twist harp strings back in
>   the 1970's for lute basses- what a disaster!
>   Any other experiences from players using these? Not willing to pull the
>   trigger yet for 7 B-lute bass strings and 4 10 course lute bass strings
>   until this is sorted out.
>   Dan
>   To get on or off this list see list information at
>   http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 

[LUTE] Re: basses in octaves

[Miles Dempster]

Dear collective wisdom,

I once attempted to compute the amount by which the placement of a fret has to 
be adjusted to compensate for the increase in tension that arises when you 
depress it onto the fret.

If I remember my conclusions, correctly, when you press the string down, the 
proportionate increase in tension, and hence the frequency, varies inversely 
with the elasticity of the string material.

Hence, a steel string (relatively inelastic) will sharpen more that a nylon or 
gut string (more elastic). It’s much easier to ‘bend’ a note on a steel string 
guitar than on a classical one.

The new CD strings are extremely elastic - you have to stretch them much much 
more than any of the other types to bring them up to pitch. In fact, I would 
expect that the fret placement for a CD string would need less adjustment 
(compared to the theoretical placement) than other types of strings since there 
will be less pitch distortion due to the increase in tension when you press it 
down.

On lutes we are blessed with ability to adjust to frets to adjust for these 
pitch distortions. However, when mixing fundamentals and octaves with widely 
different elasticities it is only to be expected that the internal tuning of 
the course will go out of kilter. Maybe it could help if the octave is closer 
in tension to the fundamental.

Just my two cents worth


Miles

> On Feb 28, 2017, at 6:28 PM, Bruno Cognyl-Fournier  
> wrote:
> e
>   Hello all
>   So I tested the strings individually ,making sure first that the frets
>   were adjusted for one string properly... and conclusion is that the
>   loaded CD nylgut goes flat as you go up the scale on the neck...by the
>   time I get to the 7th fret I no longer have a perfect fifth.   My gut
>   string stays in tune all the way up, and so does the regular nylgut.
>   I have a feeling part of the problem is the elasticity of the loaded
>   nylgut.   Mimmo has to investigate this .
>   Bruno
> 
>   2017-02-28 15:21 GMT-05:00 Bruno Cognyl-Fournier
>   <[1]fournier...@gmail.com>:
> 
>yes it is the first time I use non wound strings on my basses. I
> have
>used gut octaves for   30 years and have never had the problem,
> at least
>not to that extent.I understand the action can be part of the
>problem, although.I will test the pitch on the strings taken
>individually, however I suspect only one of the two strings is
> off
>pitch as you go up, and I've never had to match the tension
> exactly for
>both strings, although it could be part of the problem as well.
>Bruno
> 
>  2017-02-28 15:06 GMT-05:00 Dan Winheld <[1][2]dwinh...@lmi.net>:
>Bruno- Is this the first time you have ever used non-overspun
>basses? That may explain your problem rather than the loaded CD
>string specifically.It's a totally different feel, whether the
>thick basses are actual gut of one sort or another or a synthetic
>that mimics a gut bass string. (I have used plain high twist,
>loaded, catlines, Gamut "Pistoys", Gimp, and Savarez KF.)All
>   fret
>more or less the same and can work with their octave strings ;
>assuming trueness proper tension, matching tension to the octave,
>and of course proper action/neck/fret. Too high action (either nut
>or bridge- neck angle) or too thick frets can all affect this-
>   e.g.,
>very thick frets- (mostly we fret thicker & single, not the same
>   as
>historically done) -and too much finger pressure will distort the
>intonation- obviously the diff. diameter strings will respond
>differently.
>Dan
>On 2/28/2017 10:31 AM, Arto Wikla wrote:
>Hi Bruno
>No problems on my archlute's 6th and 7th. CDs and NNG octaves.
>Arto
>On 28/02/17 19:56, Bruno Cognyl-Fournier wrote:
>   Dear Collective wisdom,
>   I have been tuning my 5 and 6th course in octaves for years,
>   with
>wound
>   strings and gut or nylgut.
>   recently I bought the CD loaded strings from Mimmo and am
>   slowly
>   getting used to them. I have thus replaced the fundamental with
>CD
>   loaded, while keeping my octave strings in gut or nylgut, this
>   on
>two
>   different lutes.
>   I have noticed that the octaves are horribly out of tune as I
>   go
>up the
>   neck, especially by the time you get to the 7th fret. I
>realize I
>   rarely have to play up there, but it bothers me. Am trying
>   to
>figure
>   out what the problem is.. would it be a mismatch of tension? or
>would
>   it be the Loaded CD strings, that as some of you have probably
>found to
>   be very elastic. I have never had this issue with wound
>string/gut
>   combinations.
>   I w

[LUTE] Re: A question about cleartune

[Miles Dempster]

For a theorbo (in A) maybe D? What do the ‘continuo’ professionals use?

Best wishes

Miles




> On Jan 7, 2017, at 12:28 PM, Rainer  wrote:
> 
> Dear lute netters,
> 
> I have downloaded cleartune for my cheapo tablet- No - I don't have a smart 
> phone.
> 
> I am using and always have used 1/6 comma meantone temperament.
> 
> Question: Should I set the Temperament Root to G?
> This setting was not available on my old Korg OT-12
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Rainer
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Purcell

[Miles Dempster]

Hi Bruno,

How about Lillibullero (Lilliburlero) a jaunty and popular ‘Irish’ tune at the 
time.
Purcell published it in his compilation Music’s Handmaid.
Elizabeth Kenny has recorded it for lute solo.


Miles




> On Sep 30, 2016, at 11:06 AM, Arto Wikla  wrote:
> 
> Hi Bruno
> 
> Perhaps you can arrange (and select) some of the variations of my arr of
> Purcell's Chaconne (from King Arthur) to archlute?
> 
> My tab is in
> https://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/PurcellChaconne020916.pdf
> 
> And my video of playing it is in
>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olsmDPzPDq4&feature=youtu.be
> 
> Moving many of the low basses to higher octave should not be too complicated.
> 
> best,
> 
> Arto
> 
> On 30/09/16 17:18, Bruno Figueiredo wrote:
>>   I have been asked to play on Purcell's Dido (modern orchestra at 442
>>   with my little 8 course - ok, we can skip this part) and the conductor
>>   asked for a solo lute piece by Purcell or someone in the same style. Is
>>   there any dance tune of him transcribed for renaissance lute? I thought
>>   that maybe a saraband by Puccinini might work...
>>   Any advice is welcomed!
>>   --
>>   Bruno Figueiredo
>> 
>>   Pesquisador autônomo da prática e interpretação
>>   historicamente informada no alaúde e teorba.
>>   Doutor em Práticas Interpretativas  pela
>>   Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro.
>> 
>>   --
>> 
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> 
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: Addendum

[Miles Dempster]

Many, many thanks Wayne.!

Miles




On Jul 21, 2015, at 6:00 PM, dominic robillard  wrote:

> Me too, great stuff going on in here; daily.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 21.07.2015, at 23:47, Mathias Rösel  wrote:
>> 
>> I've been lurking here since well before 2000. This list has ever since been
>> a treasure trove to me as well as many others. Thank you, Wayne, for
>> offering this great service to us.
>> 
>> Mathias
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
>> Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag
>> von Rob MacKillop
>> Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. Juli 2015 18:54
>> An: Ron Andrico
>> Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Addendum
>> 
>> Well said, young man!
>> 
>> Rob
>> 
>> www.robmackillop.net 
>> 
>>> On 21 Jul 2015, at 17:39, Ron Andrico  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I feel the need to add a clarifying remark my statement that "when a
>>> service is free then YOU are the product."
>>> This discussion list, hosted by Wayne Cripps and his servers, is in
>>> fact a freely available service that does not, to my knowledge, mine
>>> personal information from its users.
>>> It's been a while since we all thanked Wayne publicly for providing
>>> this forum, and for taking steps to protect its users.  The lute-list
>>> is a much appreciated remnant of old-school egalitarianism.
>>> Thanks, Wayne.
>>> RA
 Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 14:58:03 +
 To: edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp; dwinh...@lmi.net
 CC: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 From: praelu...@hotmail.com
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: xx problem
 
 Ed, you'll recall that I made the suggestion off-list, and that I 
 qualified the suggestion with the statement that I do NOT use the 
 data-mining service. As far as I can tell, any positive uses the 
 service may have had are negated by the nature and quantity of
>>> personal
 information it robs from public interactions and private mail 
 accounts. As usual, when a service is free then YOU are the product.
 RA
> Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2015 23:28:39 +0900
> To: dwinh...@lmi.net
> CC: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> From: edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: xx problem
> 
> x seems to be a fairly useless thing for me. The main use Ive
 made of it is to grab friends pictures to put in my address book. I 
 never endorse people anymore because then I just get bothered by more 
 and more messages. However, I did reach Terry through x sparked 
 by Rons suggestion.
> 
>> On Jul 21, 2015, at 11:08 AM, Dan Winheld  wrote:
>> 
>> To Terry Schumacher and anyone else on xx-
>> 
>> I no longer have an account on x. Please stop x (if
 possible) from bothering me with contact/endorsement & other
>>> requests.
 Nothing personal, hostile, reclusive or anything; I just no longer
>>> have
 an account with x- it provides nothing of any personal or 
 professional use to me. I can always be contacted through this elist
>>> if
 you do not have my personal email address.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Dan
>>> x
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> 
>>> To get on or off this list see list information at 
>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: Paduane in Triple Time

[Miles Dempster]

Perhaps there are two distinct dances whose names sometimes merge:

1. Pavane: From the word 'pavo' meaning peacock. This would suggest a stately 
dance (duple time).

2. Paduan: From 'Padua (triple time)


Miles




On Jul 4, 2015, at 9:34 AM, Edward Chrysogonus Yong  
wrote:

> Dear Collective Wisdom,
> 
> I'm working on 'Une m'avoit promis' from Le Roy's Second Book for guitar, and 
> rather puzzled. It's marked as 'Paduane' but has a 3, and is barred as three 
> beats to the bar. Aren't pavanes always in duple time?
> 
> Confused,
> 
> Edward
> 
> 
> 
> 
> τούτο ηλεκτρονικόν ταχυδρομείον εκ είΦωνου εμεύ επέμφθη.
> Hæ litteræ electronicæ ab iPhono missæ sunt.
> 此電子郵件發送于自吾iPhone。
> This e-mail was sent from my iPhone.
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: [SUSPECTED SPAM] Re: Pegheads on new lute

[Miles Dempster]

Though not strictly speaking a 'peg' issue, strings binding at the nut can 
cause tuning problems (even when using Pegheads I suppose).


Miles




On May 27, 2015, at 12:27 PM, Gary Boye  wrote:

> I know there are some bad pegs and peg makers out there, but in my experience 
> the majority of "peg" problems can be traced to improper installation of the 
> strings to the pegs. Players wind too much string on the peg, it bumps up 
> against the inside of the pegbox--this becomes a "stuck peg." They wind the 
> string on the peg towards the thicker end, forcing the string to pop out when 
> tightened--this is a "loose peg." Learn to string your instrument properly 
> and alot of these "peg problems" disappear . . . just my 2 cents.
> 
> Gary
> 
> Dr. Gary R. Boye
> Professor and Music Librarian
> Appalachian State University
> 
> On 5/27/2015 11:24 AM, Mayes, Joseph wrote:
>> Early - 19th C. - guitars were made with machines or friction pegs. Those 
>> made with machines were more expensive. If you use pegheads on one of these 
>> instruments, you have an expensive guitar masquerading as a cheap one. I'll 
>> join Sterling at the vomitorium.
>> 
>> Joseph Mayes
>> 
>> From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf of 
>> Sterling Price 
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2015 8:02 AM
>> To: Michael Grant
>> Cc: LuteNet list
>> Subject: [SUSPECTED SPAM] [LUTE] Re: Pegheads on new lute
>> 
>> If your lute has shitty, ill fitting pegs then PegHeads might be fine, but 
>> it seems that most lute builders know how to make pegs that work just great. 
>> When I see PegHeads on early guitars with six strings I seriously feel the 
>> need to throw up.
>> Sterling
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On May 26, 2015, at 10:55 AM, Michael Grant  wrote:
>> 
>>> --001a11c35b4c9e155e0516fefe80
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>> 
>>> I had PegHeds (that is how the inventor and manufacturer spells his
>>> product) installed on a 10 c Ren lute.  19 PegHeds to replace tired, worn,
>>> crappy wooden friction pegs that had broken off, actually started shearing
>>> off under load.  The lute was used and I had just gotten it.  Chuck Herin,
>>> the PegHed guy is, by pure luck, only about 2 hours from me here in South
>>> Carolina.  I drove the instrument to him, he made very small bore changes
>>> in the pegbox and installed them.  Here are before and after pics of the
>>> lute's pegbox.  The PegHeds cost $30 a piece.  That adds up but what was it
>>> costing me to have a lute with 1/2 of the broken pegs missing and so
>>> unplayable, what would it have cost me to take it to a lute luthier and
>>> have new friction pegs turned and installed and how long would that have
>>> taken.  Then I would have been back to friction pegs.  Add both costs up
>>> and the PegHeds were a no brainer!  I recommend them highly.
>>> 
>>> Michael
>>> 
>>> On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 11:20 AM, Dan Winheld  wrote:
>>> 
 I am neither conventional nor wise, so I can only offer my own personal
 experience & opinions:
 
 Most people love them, I wouldn't pay $20 for a barrelful of them. But
 they are life saver on Orpharions; or any multi-string, double-course low
 tension wire strung instrument. For those instruments, and those
 instruments alone, I would consider them almost a necessity.
 
 They are nice on my Baroque lute student's 13 course instrument - but
 string changing is his problem!
 Hate them on my own 8  course, but I have adapted & gotten used to them-
 and that lute is so good I put up with them. The conventional but
 exquisitely fitted pegs on my Vihuela are a lot faster & easier than the
 Pegheads on my lute; I am used to the quick action of the 1 to 1 "gear
 ratio" of no gears! String changes? Instant!
 
 No gears for me, thanks!
 
 Da
 
 
 On 5/26/2015 6:22 AM, Charles Mokotoff wrote:
 
>I took delivery of a new lute this week that has Pegheads installed.
>I've never been one for much authenticity, so this doesn't bug me at
>all. All I can say is, where have they been all my lute life? I don't
>know what I am going to do with all the extra time I have now. They
> are
>fantastic. The only single thing I miss is the simplicity of removing
> a
>string with conventional pegs, but to be able to just sit there and
> put
>your left hand up to easily tweak tuning feels miraculous to me.
>I am curious what the conventional wisdom is on these.
> 
>--
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>> 
>>> --
>>> __
>>> Michael M. Grant, PhD, MBA
>>> *Coastal Psychological Consulting, PA*
>>> 74 Lodge Trail
>>> Pawleys Island, SC 29585
>>> 843.314.3263 Phone
>>> 843.314.3784 Fax
>>> www.coastalpsychological.com
>>> 
>>> --001

[LUTE] Re: Gut string diameters

[Miles Dempster]

Hi Sean,

A 'V' shaped notch formed by two straight edges set at a small angle to 
eachother can measure small thicknesses very accurately. The thickness of the 
string is measured by how far you can put the string into the notch. It 
wouldn't surprise me if something like this could have used.


Miles




On May 18, 2015, at 4:15 PM, Sean Smith  wrote:

> 
> Thanks, Martin. The idea that in a bundle you'll have an average and outliers 
> makes sense.
> 
>> ...if you're going to make a homemade roped string (3 strands) the second 
>> course is what you use to make a 5th course and the 3rd is what you use to 
>> make a 6th course, but I don't think anybody did this in the 16th century.
> 
> What then would have been the procedure instead? The stringmaker has a better 
> finished product (as nowadays) perhaps using custom diameters? Or maybe the 
> lengths sold would not have been conducive to amateur stringbuilding? Solid 
> gut? If it was indeed more springy then solid may have been more acceptable.
> 
> The nice thing about the roped strings is that while they can be expensive 
> they do last well. If they sound _too_ dead, it's time to change the octave.
> 
> The reason I bring this up is that I'm pretty parsimonious when it comes to 
> strings and that would have been an issue for many lutenists without a 
> supportive patron. Would there have been some players who had a deal w/ the 
> local butcher for materials and made their own?
> 
> There's an old Japanese saying that when the winds come up the cats 
> disappear! 
> 
> Sean
> 
> 
> On May 18, 2015, at 12:42 PM, Martin Shepherd wrote:
> 
> Hi Sean,
> 
> Your friend was right - if you're going to make a homemade roped string (3 
> strands) the second course is what you use to make a 5th course and the 3rd 
> is what you use to make a 6th course, but I don't think anybody did this in 
> the 16th century.
> 
> My suspicion is that they bought a bundle of strings labelled "3rd course" or 
> whatever, then selected their 3rd course strings from amongst them.  The 
> bundle would have included strings of various diameters, around a mean which 
> was determined by the way they were made (how many guts, how they were 
> twisted etc).  This kind of system persisted until the 20th century for 
> violin strings.
> 
> If I'm right, this also means that when Dowland says use a 4th course string 
> for the first two frets he doesn't necessarily mean two frets of exactly the 
> same diameter.  He could have graded all the frets very precisely by choosing 
> slightly bigger or smaller strings from each bundle.
> 
> M
> 
> On 18/05/2015 21:18, Sean Smith wrote:
>> In buying and using our lute strings we place an awful lot of faith in our 
>> micrometers. I see people changing strings for going up or down a tone or 
>> even a semitone. Yes, I think I can feel the tension change and hear it to 
>> some degree but we're often talking a difference of microns in string 
>> difference.
>> 
>> For example, a change of .42 to a .43 is 10 microns which is not repeatable 
>> on my smaller micrometers (even digital) but is on the 6" digital 
>> micrometer. For rougher measurements, say, between 1st, 2nd and 3rd courses, 
>> the delta is easily seen/felt and I think that even I could make a 
>> measurement device for that for further refinement.
>> 
>> In the 16th century, of course, there were no micrometers although I'm sure 
>> there were fairly accurate (and perhaps, secret?) methods of fine 
>> measurement. I'm wondering how they worked out the diameters. Any place I 
>> could read up on this?
>> 
>> Years ago, a friend did some experiments in roped bass strings and found 
>> that 5th and 6th courses could be made from combinations of the 1st, 2nd or 
>> 3rd courses. From this we concluded that nearly all sizes of 6c instruments 
>> could be strung with a total of 3 diameters of strings. The 4th course is a 
>> little iffy in that it could be made from a thicker 4th size or possibly a 
>> combination of 2 chanterelles.
>> 
>> I'm just thinking that by keeping the choices fewer they were able to be 
>> more efficient in string technology. On the other hand, I wonder if this 
>> tended to keep the lute technology at a halt: ie, you can play anything you 
>> want as long as it has the 6 courses of those sizes.
>> 
>> No, nothing was published and the theories are not ready for primetime but I 
>> was wondering what other string scientists have come up with. I realize 
>> there are the notes in Capirola but I'm thinking by mid-century there had to 
>> have been a larger industry at work, judging from the number of books being 
>> published and lute inventories.
>> 
>> 
>> Sean
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> http://www.avast.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: backpacks for lutes?

[Miles Dempster]

For the section on travel lutes go to minute 7:00

Miles



On Mar 6, 2014, at 9:59 AM, Bruno Fournier  wrote:

> a video on Colin, which includes demonstration of his travel lute..
> can be found here:
> 
> http://vimeo.com/29128621
> 
> maybe some luthier can pick up on the idea...
> 
> Bruno
> 
> 2014-03-06 9:55 GMT-05:00 Bruno Fournier :
>> Colin Everett in Ottawa, had designed an array of travel lutes, that
>> never really got off the ground  in popularity.  They were flat back,
>> rectangular,  no peghead, where as your pegs for tuning were on the
>> bridge side, on the end block. He took them to the lute society
>> seminars at some point and got an order or two.  When Colin passed
>> away, he bequeathed the two sets ( from Bass to Soprano) the Carlton
>> University in Ottawa.  I have the Baroque lute version of his travel
>> lutes, but needs to be restored, and I don't have the time..
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Bruno Cognyl-Fournier
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> www.estavel.org
>> 
>> 
>> 2014-03-06 9:41 GMT-05:00 Christopher Wilke :
>>> While we're at it, let me repeat my plea for a luthier to design a 
>>> practical travel lute a la the Soloette or Aria AS-100C Sinsonido "silent" 
>>> travel guitars: 
>>> http://www.amazon.com/Aria-AS-100C-Sinsonido-Travel-Guitar/dp/B002AMVC0I/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top.
>>> 
>>> I took one of these on vacation and kept up my classical guitar chops. I've 
>>> also used it plugged into an amp for wedding gigs. People think it looks 
>>> cool, too. There are electric ouds and even gambas nowadays as well. No 
>>> such option for the lute...
>>> 
>>> I have a few design ideas but no wood working ability at all. If you're a 
>>> builder interested in cornering the market, feel free to contact me!
>>> 
>>> Chris
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A.
>>> Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
>>> www.christopherwilke.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Thu, 3/6/14, Geoff Gaherty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: backpacks for lutes?
>>> To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>> Date: Thursday, March 6, 2014, 7:17 AM
>>> 
>>> On 06/03/14 2:29 AM, T.Kakinami
>>> wrote:
 http://www.bagluthiers.com/producto.php?i43&p=laud_renacentista_-_barroco6cc3f8&id=43
>>> 
>>> That's close to my ideal.  My present cases are mostly
>>> made of wood and
>>> significantly heavy and hard, not something I would want to
>>> strap on my
>>> back.  A light-weight soft padded case on my back would
>>> be a big
>>> improvement.
>>> 
>>> Geoff
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Geoff Gaherty
>>> Foxmead Observatory
>>> Coldwater, Ontario, Canada
>>> http://www.gaherty.ca
>>> http://starrynightskyevents.blogspot.com/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
> 
> 


--

[LUTE] Re: Bartolotti's continuo treatise

[Miles Dempster]

Its getting a bit OT, but I think in the context 'mouche' on the ladies' 
dressing tables refers to something other than 'flies'. I've found another 
possible meaning: patch or ornament related to taffeta.

Miles Dempster



On Feb 25, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Jean-Marie Poirier  wrote:

> Thank you Howard but Google is not completely up to point. Here is my 
> translation, not very far from Google's but...
> 
> There was at court (of Charles II of England) a certain Italianwho was famous 
> for the guitar. He had genius for music, and he wa the only one who could do 
> something with the guitar; but his composition was so gracious and so tender 
> that he would have given harmony to the most ungrateful of all instruments. 
> The truth is that nothing was more difficult than playing after his manner. 
> The taste of the king for his compositions had made this instrument so 
> fashionable that everybody would play it, good or bad, and on the ladies' 
> dressing tables you would find a guitar as certainly as rouge and flies.
> 
> The Duke of York could play it fairly well, and the count of Arran as well as 
> Francisco himself. This Francisque had just composed a Saraband which charmed 
> or afflicted everybody : because all guitar rakers at Court had started to 
> learn it and God knows what a universal scraping that was !
> 
> At first sight but a bit more accurate than Google I hope ;-) !
> 
> Best,
> 
> Jean-Marie
> Ps : Thank you for the precisions you gave me Ralf ! I feel reassured ;-)
> 
> 
> --
> 
>> 
>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 8:44 AM, Jean-Marie Poirier  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Here is the passage in question (I am confident that you can read French) :
>> 
>> For those who can’t, I will helpfully offer a translation from Google 
>> Language Tools.  I think it speaks for itself.
>> 
>> "He had some Italian in the Court, famous for the guitar. He had a genius 
>> for music, and this is the only guitar could do something;., But its 
>> composition was so gracious and so tender that it would have given the 
>> harmony most ungrateful of all instruments. the truth is that nothing was 
>> more difficult than playing his way. taste the king for his compositions had 
>> made ​​the instrument so fashionable that all played upon the world good 
>> or bad, and the toilet was beautiful also sure to see a guitar to find the 
>> red and flies. 
>> 
>> The Duke of York played upon fairly, and the Earl of Arran as Francisco 
>> itself. This Frantz had just made a sarabande or désoloit that charmed 
>> everyone: for all guitarerie Court began to learn, and God knows the 
>> Universal raclerie it was! "
>> --
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
> 


--

[LUTE] Re: Question on String Tension

[Miles Dempster]

Hi David,

Have you considered the elasticity of the string material?
Two extremes would be steel (very little peg turning) and nylgut (lots of peg 
turning) to bring up to pitch and tune.
Would it be due to the fact that it is a gimped string which makes it less 
elastic in comparison to gut?



Miles


On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:20 PM, David Smith  wrote:

> Hi Ralf,
> I think I did not correctly express the issue I am trying to understand.
> 
> The stats on the string are: Pitch at 392, length 0.685, Tension is
> 28newtons,Diameter is 2.03mm silver gimped Larson string. The diameter is
> his "equivalent" ungimped diameter as opposed to the actual, physical
> diameter.
> 
> I am very happy with this string and how it plays. My question is with
> regard to tuning it. When I am pitch I find that very little change in
> turning the peg causes a large change in the pitch. I have a number of
> instruments (some gut and some nylgut). I do not notice this on my Theorbo
> or 10 course lute (nor any of the others but they are all fewer courses). Is
> this normal? Is there anything that I can due to affect the sensitivity to
> pitch of the string when tuning it? Is it an indication of a string that is
> too high or too low a tension? My mathematical analysis of the formula for
> pitch implies that increasing the tension will result in a little less
> variation in pitch due to the change in tension when tuning but it seems
> really small.
> 
> I appreciate all of the other comments and suggestions. Since this is
> completely independent of the strings response when I fret it I am not sure
> I understand the comments on twisting the string to reduce it stiffness. I
> do not find the string particularly stiff. That is one of the nice
> advantages of Dan Larson's silver gimped strings - they are actually smaller
> diameter than stated due to the extra mass of the silver.
> 
> Anyway, any additional thoughts welcome.
> 
> Regards
> David
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf
> Of R. Mattes
> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 5:57 AM
> To: alexander; David Smith
> Cc: Lute List
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Question on String Tension
> 
> On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 05:11:40 -0500, alexander wrote
>> 
>> there is a possibility of improving your situation. First you have to 
>> make sure you know which way the string is twisted (clockwise or 
>> counter). A strong magnifying glass might be of help. Next you need to 
>> get one end of the string free, either the bridge end or the peg end.
>> Firmly holding the string, give it one or two turns in the direction 
>> of the twist. Twist as much as possible without a distortion to the 
>> shape of the string. Do not let the string to bulk on itself. Fix the 
>> end of the string back where it belongs and raise the pitch. Of course 
>> make sure the string does not untwist, and keep it somewhat taut while 
>> holding.
>> 
>> This simple technique might be enough to increase the string's 
>> elasticity and make it more agreeable to finger pressure. There is no 
>> difficulty to this, just some amount of common sense, and never turn 
>> against the string's twist, as if the string is not glued well 
>> together, it could be damaged. You could practice on a piece of fret 
>> gut, to get a feel to it. Some strings can take quite a bit of twist 
>> and actually be improved by this.
> 
> Hello Alexander,
> 
> sorry, but I want to ask: did you ever try this out yourself and did it
> really work? Even if you really manage to fix the string after twisting so
> that it doesn't immediatly untwist twisting in such a way would cause the
> mass of the string to be unevenly distributed over it's length (because the
> string will be mostly twisted in the middle - take a rubberband, twist it
> and watch where the twisting happens ;-) And that will create a false
> string.
> Gut strings are twisted during assembly, while they are wet, not afterwards,
> when dried.
> 
> @david: what exactly do you mean when you write "sensitve"?
> Does the string change pitch when you use more than minimal force to finger
> it? Yes, that's typical for low tension strings (as well as for metal
> strings ...) You need to spend a substantial amount of time pracising
> playing at low tension. "Dificult to get in tune" - hmm, low tension should
> result in easier tuning because you need more turning of the peg to get the
> same amount of pitch change compared to a high-tension string. As a matter
> of fact, shortly before the breaking point of a string, tiny changes at the
> peg will result in dramatic pitch changes - that's actually how you now that
> you are approaching the breaking point (without breaking the string).
> 
> Cheers, Ralf Mattes
> 
> 
> 
> --
> R. Mattes -
> r...@inm.mh-freiburg.de
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: Question on String Tension

[Miles Dempster]

I've thought about this too. Here's another way of stating the same thing 
(below). I would try and ensure that the octave string is in the same tension 
range. 

The slacker the string, the greater will be proportionate change in tension 
when you press the string against a fret. Hence the greater the change in 
frequency. 

My 2 cents worth


Miles

Sent from my iPhone

> On Dec 17, 2013, at 8:59 PM, "David Smith"  wrote:
> 
>   I have an 11 course lute where the 11^th course seems to be very
>   sensitive and difficult to get in tune. It is gut. No, I do not want to
>   use copper or silver wrapped strings.
> 
> 
>   So, my question is if there is a relationship between the sensitivity
>   of the frequency (pitch) to the tension of the string which would
>   indicate that the tension on my string is a bit low.
> 
> 
>   I did a chart of this in Mathematica taking the partial derivative of
>   the frequency as a function of tension equation (assuming all else
>   being equal) and it seems that frequency changes as 1 over the square
>   root of the tension. This implies that increasing the tension would
>   make the string be less sensitive to changes if frequency due to change
>   in tension - i.e. easier to tune.
> 
> 
>   Does this make sense to anyone or is it just noise? I am looking to see
>   if changing the string will have an effect on tunability and whether it
>   indicates a low or high tension change would be good.
> 
> 
>   Thanks for listening to the ramblings and any guidance you can provide.
>   These are expensive strings (Gut) so just experimenting is a bit
>   spendy.
> 
>   Regards
> 
>   David
> 
>   --
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: music slowing software?

[Miles Dempster]

The Amazing Slow Downer is also your  (Mac) friend...

http://www.ronimusic.com/amsldox.htm

Miles


On Dec 10, 2013, at 12:44 PM, David Morales  
wrote:

>   Audacity is your friend, check out these videos:
>   [1]http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=audacity+change+tempo&sm
>   =3
>   You can change the tempo without changing the pitch, for example.
>   Regards.
>   David Morales
>   Cuerdas Pulsadas
>   2013/12/10 Omer Katzir <[2]kome...@gmail.com>
> 
> VLC can do that
> 
>   On Dec 10, 2013, at 7:27 PM, [3]theoj89...@aol.com wrote:
>> When learning music by ear, it helps to be able to slow down fast
>   passages to help discern the notes. Post vinyl LP, and Marantz
>   'Watergate" cassette recorder, does anyone know of simple soft water
>   that can do this? I am a mac user (but can run windows on VMWare if I
>   have to). Thanks!
>> --
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
>   --
> 
> References
> 
>   1. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=audacity+change+tempo&sm=3
>   2. mailto:kome...@gmail.com
>   3. mailto:theoj89...@aol.com
>   4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 


--

[LUTE] Re: general public Lute awareness

[Miles Dempster]

Forty years ago the continuo section of an early music performance hardly ever 
featured a finger-plucked instrument.
The theorbo and archlute have since then become 'standard', providing bread and 
butter work for competent continuo players.

Miles
 
On 2013-08-12, at 10:45 AM, William Samson wrote:

> Nowadays, of course, there are very many more great quality lutenists
>   than there were forty years ago, but there's not nearly enough work to
>   go round to keep them all busy as concert performers.  Probably their
>   best hope of earning a crust is through teaching - either in academia
>   or with private students - and grabbing a performing opportunity when
>   it presents itself.


--

To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Summary intavolations 33

[Miles Dempster]

Anton,

You can run Windows on a Mac.

Miles

On 2013-06-30, at 10:59 AM, Anton Höger wrote:

> Daniel,
> 
> thanks, Yes I know, the Fronino files are much more beautiful, but I am 
> working on a Mac. The old Windows, where Fronimo is installed, is only used 
> in extremly cases.
> 
> I spoke with Mr. Tribioli, but he does not see any urgent to develop for the 
> Mac too!
> 
> Anton
> 
> 
> 
> Am 30.06.2013 um 15:37 schrieb Daniel F. Heiman:
> 
>> Anton:
>> 
>> I strongly suggest that you go back to using Fronimo for your output files.
>> 
>> 
>> The software you are currently running is problematic in several ways:
>> - the font is not properly designed for tablature
>> – stacked chords containing 'a,' 'd' and 'b' tab letters just become a
>> muddle.
>> – an 'f' character over a 'b' character on adjacent strings is a visual
>> mess.
>> - having the dots on the tab characters instead of the rhythm signs is a
>> disaster, especially because the spacing between the character and the dot
>> is inconsistent
>> – a dotted 'a' character, a dotted 'd' character and a 'd' character
>> without a dot are sometimes difficult to distinguish without a magnifying
>> glass.
>> – an 'f' character and a dotted 'f' character are extremely difficult to
>> differentiate when reading rapidly.
>> 
>> Some of your ensemble arrangements look interesting.  I am hoping to have a
>> chance to try out a few of them next week at the Madison Early Music
>> Festival.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Daniel Heiman
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf
>> Of Anton Höger
>> Sent: 29 June, 2013 03:50
>> To: Lutelist List
>> Subject: [LUTE] Summary intavolations 33
>> 
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> there are new Lute Intavolations on IMSLP
>> 
>> (and I overwirked my homepage-  http://lute-ensemble-tabulatures.npage.de/
>> 
>> Enjoy them 
>> Anton
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> for 4 lutes  (Unisono)
>> 
>> Hassler, Hans LeoCanzon noni toni
>> http://imslp.org/wiki/Sacri_Concentus_(Hassler,_Hans_Leo)#IMSLP285861
>> and the same for 4 lutes ad Quartam (2a-lutes and 2 D-lutes) or 2 a-lutes
>> and 2 E-lutes (I always prefer this combination!)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> for 4 lutes (Ad secundam--g,g,g,d-lutes)
>> 
>> Hassler, Hans LeoCanzon duodecim tonig,g,g,D
>> http://imslp.org/wiki/Laudate_Dominum_omnes_gentes_(Hassler,_Hans_Leo)#IMSLP
>> 284912
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 2 Sopranos & 2 Lutes in g
>> 
>> Gagliano, Marco da   Aura in tanto lasciva   2 Sopranos & 2 Lutes
>> http://imslp.org/wiki/Su_la_sponda_del_Tebro_humida_(Gagliano,_Marco_da)
>> 
>> 2 Lutes Unisono
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Kotter, Hans Präludium in Fa
>> http://imslp.org/wiki/Präludium_in_Fa_(Kotter,_Hans)
>> 
>> 
>> Schmid, Bernhard d. ÄEin guter Dantz
>> http://imslp.org/wiki/Ein_guter_Dantz_(Schmid_I,_Bernhard)#IMSLP286343
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: Changing tempo.

[Miles Dempster]

Not bad form at all.


On 2013-05-16, at 6:43 PM, Herbert Ward wrote:

> 
> I'm working on Solus cum Sola (Dowland).
> 
> I find myself slowing down during the harder parts,
> and then resuming tempo when the technical challenges
> relent.
> 
> The variations in tempo don't bother me
> as I listen to myself.  But I wonder whether they
> would be considered bad form by knowledgeable
> listeners.
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Re: Satoh - de Visée

[Miles Dempster]

Martin,

On KF strings I concur with you about using them for the lower strings. 
Diapasons 12, 13 and 14 on my 'toy' theorbo (145cm) sounded just too just dumpy 
with gut; KFs solved the problem, and to my ears sound just like gut in this 
register.



Miles 
On 2013-04-12, at 2:06 PM, Martin Shepherd wrote:

>   Sorry I sent this to Ed, when I meant to send it to the list.
> 
>    Original Message 
>   Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Satoh - de Visee
>  Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 20:05:33 +0200
>  From: Martin Shepherd [1]
>To: Edward Martin [2]
> Well, if you're right Ed, I wonder why the strings are so white (whiter
> than the octaves) - in my experience gut strings are generally browner
> the thicker they are.
> 
> Dan, I meant the KF harp strings (i.e. the thicker sizes from .95mm
> upwards) which are quite white and slightly textured, unlike the thinner
> PVF strings which are clear (like nylon).  I have been using them for
> 5th and 6th course on renaissance lutes, and some of my customers have
> been using them for lower strings as well.  I would expect them to work
> well on 11c lute, since the thickest would only be about 1.7mm and
> they're mostly used as open strings.
> 
> M
> 
>   --
> 
> References
> 
>   1. mailto:mar...@luteshop.co.uk
>   2. mailto:e...@gamutstrings.com
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Tempo, magnitude and precision.

[Miles Dempster]

Hello Tobiah,

Einstein established that time (and space) is affected by gravity.
Just think of travelling through a musical piece where its emotional gravity 
constantly changes. It will speed up and down accordingly, but the metre will 
remain the same.

Just a thought.


Miles

On 2013-04-08, at 10:26 PM, Bruno Correia wrote:

>   Hello Tobiah,
> 
>   How absolute metric time could have been acheived in the Renaissance?
>   The tactus was a constant pulse behind the rhythm, but it was an
>   organic motion not a strict measured time like a metronome.
>   Actually, the only genre of music (which comes to my mind) that really
>   plays in time is pop music... How do we know they valued absolute
>   strict time in the Renaissance?
> 
>   I've heard it expressed by one professor, that
>   absolute metric time was desired during the Renaissance.
> 
>   2013/4/8 Tobiah <[1]t...@tobiah.org>
> 
> I sometimes struggle with the desire to warp the
> tempo of a lute piece, to accentuate a beautiful
> or pivotal phrase, or to keep myself interested
> during a more mundane passage.
> I've heard it expressed by one professor, that
> absolute metric time was desired during the Renaissance.
> I also remember the notion that rubato, in the romantic
> period, was just a way of lending or borrowing time
> in such a way that the same piece played straight through
> at a constant tempo would end at the same time as the
> performance where rubato was performed.
> All of this is bait for discussion, but also a precursor
> to a main query.  I attempted to play along with a youtube
> video of a fellow playing Francesco, and found that it
> was impossible to do; he took wild liberties with the
> tempo at every whim (either that or I can't play in time!).
> I wanted to hear some comment on that aspect of the performance,
> as well as on any other point I have raised.
> Thanks!
> Tobiah
> [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y837TG7FgFM
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
>   --
>   Bruno Correia
> 
>   Pesquisador autonomo da pratica e interpretac,ao
>   historicamente informada no alaude e teorba.
>   Doutor em Praticas Interpretativas pela
>   Universidade Federal do Estado do Rio de Janeiro.
> 
>   --
> 
> References
> 
>   1. mailto:t...@tobiah.org
>   2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y837TG7FgFM
>   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 

[LUTE] Re: anyone who can re-fret a lute: North London/South Midlands?

[Miles Dempster]

Stuart,

I once went nuts trying to do this - I couldn't figure out why the knot would 
not hold, even though I was following the instructions faithfully.

Eventually it occurred to me that it could be due to my fret material. I was 
using varnished/smooth string gut. I tried again after lightly sanding it to 
roughen it, and the problem was solved.

Miles
On 2013-03-12, at 3:35 PM, WALSH STUART wrote:

> Many, many thanks to all who have offered help, suggestions, sent links, sent 
> photos  - and even a video! Just tried again to put a fret on and still no 
> luck. I'm just making the same mistake(s) over and over again now. I'll get 
> someone to show me how to do it.
> 
> Stuart
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Best Body Frets?

[Miles Dempster]

You don't really need the 12th fret. Just play the harmonic!

Miles Dempster


On 2012-09-26, at 2:35 PM, Paolo Busato wrote:

> Strangely enough the lute in the Costa's painting has eleven frets (instead 
> of twelve) and the tenth fret "covers" only the 2nd, 3rd and 4th course.
> 
> Paolo Busato lute-maker
> www.busatolutes.com
> e-mail: paolo.busatoatbusatolutes.com
> _
> Il contenuto di questa e-mail e dei file allegati è RISERVATO e da
> considerarsi utilizzabile solamente dalla persona o dall'ente cui è
> indirizzato. Se avete ricevuto questa e-mail per errore, siete pregati di
> eliminarla e di contattare il mittente (Legge italiana 196/2003).  The
> content of this e-mail and any files is CONFIDENTIAL and intended
> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed.
> If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this email
> and any attachments and contact the sender. (Italian Law 196/2003)
> _
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Dan Winheld" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2012 5:53 PM
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Best Body Frets?
> 
> 
>> William,
>> 
>> While body frets were certainly not standard (Francesco was just one player 
>> known for going above the frets, as not doubt was Pietro Bono and others) , 
>> they were an option going as far back as the late 15 Century- see Lorenzo 
>> Costa's "Concert", ca. 1485-95, National Gallery, London. 3 ebony looking 
>> frets right there on the 5 course lute.
>> 
>> Anyway, Not quite the point of my question. Been there, done that. My six 
>> course lute was body fretless for decades, and I had zero trouble nailing 
>> the notes with perfect intonation, after some practice. In fact, I have a 
>> new student who is a violinist. He almost can't stand ANY of the frets- neck 
>> and body- interfering with his ability to get the perfect intonation he is 
>> used to, and accomplishes very easily by touch/hearing. At least as 
>> beginner, he finds them very difficult.
>> 
>> But the necessity of clear, defined singing tone for those last 3, 4, or 
>> more semitones takes precedence in the music I am playing on these days. 
>> Which is why I put them on my eight course lute, which I was playing without 
>> body frets for the first 6 months after I got it-  and yes, it is great 
>> practice. But the freedom to get really get accurate intonation was trumped 
>> but the need for more clearly defined tone. A pity, really, as the 12th fret 
>> requires some tricky slanting to get the octave "n" in perfect tune from the 
>> first down to the 4th course, then others take their position cues from that 
>> fret. And they are not all perfect- compromising happens.
>> 
>> 17th century French practice is not 18th century German practice. While 
>> Dowland mentions ten tied frets in addition to body frets, 9 seems to have 
>> been standard and sufficient for the French virtuosos, but Weiss has you 
>> going right up to the octave, and there seem to be quite a number of late 
>> swan neck lutes with 14 total frets.
>> 
>> Sam- I wouldn't use that double sticky tape for more than temporary position 
>> exploring. I thought it was the cat's pajamas myself for a few weeks, then 
>> they started getting knocked around, and the sound (on my lute, of course!) 
>> was markedly inferior to properly glued frets. The tape layer that carries 
>> the glue creates a barrier to proper sound transmission- already compromised 
>> the further up you go- and makes fret thickness sizing more troublesome. 
>> Just my experience.
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 9/26/2012 12:26 AM, William Samson wrote:
>>>What nobody has mentioned yet is that body frets, while not unknown,
>>>were comparatively rare back in the day.  There's a brief mention of
>>>them in 'Varietie' and only a few paintings show evidence of their
>>>use.  Accurate stopping of the string on the soundboard might well have
>>>been the norm - and of course a 'singing' tone would be out.  I suspect
>>>the reason people want them is that Dowland used fret positions right
>>>up to the 12th, and of course all the Bream recordings that lurk at the
>>>back of many players' minds have a wonderful sustained tone on these
>>>notes.  Would Dowland himself have used them or would they be regarded
>>>as

[LUTE] Re: Mechanical Pegs

[Miles Dempster]

..now, if somebody could double the length of my left arm, it might be possible 
to tune my theorbo diapasons on the fly!

On 2012-08-17, at 1:23 AM, Edward Martin wrote:

> OK, Nancy asked me to jump in, so I will.
> 
> The first experience with these pegheds was on Dan Winheld's 8-course 
> lute.  I really liked them, a lot.
> 
> Then, about a year ago, I took my first plunge with these gears 
> (pegheds).  I had them installed on my 6-course vihuela, and they 
> immediately solved many, many problems.  First off, baroque guitars 
> and vihuelas (probably renaissance guitars)  have problems, in that 
> the traditional peg goes through only one hole, as opposed to two 
> holes for a lute.  Therefore, the vihuela has a greater tendency to 
> slip.  The pegheds remedied this problem, and I later decided, last 
> early spring, to have them installed on my 11-course lute.  My 
> 11-course baroque lute partner, Tom Walker, also has a lute that is 
> an exact match to mine, and he also has pegheds.  So, I have 
> experience with 4 instruments in pegheds, (very limited with Dan 
> Winheld's 8-course, however).  It improved my 11-course instrument 
> dramatically, with better tuning.  This is especially important when 
> using gut, and all these instruments are entirely strung in gut.
> 
> By the way, Tom'sa lute was just 5 days old (!!) when he received it, 
> and we had a concert that night.  The hall filled with people, and 
> the heat and humidity went up.  The gut strings were so stable with 
> pegheds, that we had NO TUNING for the entire concert, with exception 
> of tuning diapasons to a different key!!  That in itself is remarkable.
> 
> Plainly put, I love them.  They are unbelievably smooth, as in a very 
> expensive guitar machine.  They are adjustable in tension - as with a 
> traditional peg, push them in and they will be tighter, pull them 
> out, and looser.   Whether in a tight or loose setting, they are 
> smooth.  They never slip, never stick.  This summer, with all the 
> humidity, I had no problems with stuck or slipping pegs they 
> stay, it pitch, where you put them.  Speaking of tuning, they are 
> geared at 25% as compared to a peg.  For example, if one wanted to 
> tune a half step sharp, one turns the gear 4 times further than when 
> using a traditional  peg.  That makes for much more accurate tuning, 
> as they will not skip too sharp, as compared to a traditional peg.  I 
> find myself tuning more, but very much faster than before, and yes, I 
> tune sometimes while playing.  Tuning with pegheds is actually a joy 
> now, as I can tune more accurately, and much faster.  No more sore 
> fingers trying to turn stick pegs!!
> 
> We all know what it is like to adjust to a certain pitch... we play 
> around, get it where we want, let go, and it slips with traditional 
> pegs!  Now, I have trust, so I can quickly adjust, without fear of 
> slipping;  yes, I can no adjust tuning "on the fly" while playing.
> 
> As for weight, Dan Larson has on his web site, comparisons of the 
> weights of pegs vs. pegheds.  Different types of wood make different 
> weights in pegs.  Pegheds are , if my memory serves me correctly, 
> just 2 grams more, or so.  I cannot distinguish any difference in the 
> weight of the neck or instrument, and the pegheds made, in my 
> opinion, no difference whatsoever in sound, other than sounding 
> better because I can now tune more accurately, therefore sounding 
> better.   No, the 11-course lute does have any perception to added weight.
> 
> There are 2 drawbacks:
> 
> 1. When changing a string, because the pegheds do not slip, one has 
> to un-wind the peghed to get the old string out.   This is not a 
> problem, as the added time (perhaps 7-8 seconds) lost is nothing, 
> compared to the time saved in fast and accurate tuning.
> 2.  For those that only want authenticity, pegheds were not used in 
> old times.  Neither was nylgut, nylon, carbon, or perhaps wound 
> strings for that matter!  Many people who saw them on my lute this 
> summer were fooled, into thinking they were ebony (they are not).
> 
> Thanks for asking..I would put them on all my 
> instruments, if I could afford to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 12:45 PM 8/16/2012, Ken Brodkey wrote:
>> Has anyone tried the mechanical pegs made by Pegheds? I have a 
>> customer who is interested in replacing his traditional pegs with 
>> these. Any comments are much appreciated.
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> Ken
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
> 
> 
> Edward Martin
> 2817 East 2nd Street
> Duluth, Minnesota  55812
> e-mail:  e...@gamutstrings.com
> voice:  (218) 728-1202
> http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name
> http://www.myspace.com/edslute
> http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin
> 
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: Lute sighting

[Miles Dempster]

How come it is described as having only having 22 strings?


On 2012-05-25, at 10:11 AM, theoj89...@aol.com wrote:

> 
> 
> The Lee Valley tool company of Canada published a full page picture of a 13c 
> baroque lute (by David Weston of Merrickville, Ontario, Canada).
> http://www.leevalley.com/US/home/OnlineCatalogs.aspx
> Click on the June 2012 supplement
> 
> 
> --
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: In darkness let me dwell

[Miles Dempster]

Bruno,

You are assuming that the string length on the theorbo will allow 
non-re-entrant tuning... it would have to be a really really 'toy' theorbo I 
would think,

Miles


On 2012-05-03, at 9:25 AM, Bruno Fournier wrote:

>   Hello,
> 
>   A
> 
>   Well I would think that if you do not have to play other pieces during
>   that gig, I would find it simpler to retune the theorbo without
>   re-entrant tuning and play straight from the Renaissance lute tab.
> 
>   A
> 
>   Bruno
> 
>   A
> 
>   On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Shaun Ng <[1]shaunk...@gmail.com>
>   wrote:
> 
> Thanks for that. Are there staff notation versions flying around
> online?
> Yes, I doubt this will be satisfactory for our standards, but if a
> singer asks a rather baroque theorbo player to do a renaissance lute
> player's job, knowing full well that he does not play the
> instrument, then we can safely assume that some concessions can be
> made. This I suppose is not quite unlike asking a pianist to play a
> harpsichord!
> 
>   Shaun Ng
>   0426 240775 | [2]shaunk...@gmail.com | [3]shaunng.blogspot.com
> 
>   On 03/05/2012, at 21:33, David van Ooijen <[4]davidvanooi...@gmail.com>
>   wrote:
>> On 3 May 2012 13:19, Shaun Ng <[5]shaunk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I have been asked to play the above lute song by Dowland, but one
>   big problem: I don't play or own a renaissance lute! Would anyone
>   happen have to a version for theorbo in French tab? Any advice
>   appreciated. Thanks in advance.
>> 
>> 
>> That might be hard one to pull off. I play from the staff notation if
>> I find myself with a theorbo only and I have to play a lute song. It
>> then becomes a sort of mixed continuo/obligato. Not always easy and
>> not always satisfactory. You might want to write something out in
>> advance.
>> 
>> good luck!
>> 
>> David
>> --
>> ***
>> David van Ooijen
>> [6]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
>> [7]www.davidvanooijen.nl
>> ***
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
>   --
> 
>   A
> 
>   Bruno Cognyl-Fournier
> 
>   A
> 
>   [9]www.estavel.org
> 
>   A
> 
>   --
> 
> References
> 
>   1. mailto:shaunk...@gmail.com
>   2. mailto:shaunk...@gmail.com
>   3. http://shaunng.blogspot.com/
>   4. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
>   5. mailto:shaunk...@gmail.com
>   6. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
>   7. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/
>   8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>   9. http://www.estavel.org/
> 

[LUTE] Re: Re-tuning the diapason of a 7c

[Miles Dempster]

Hi Ed,

On your 8-course do you have the D on the 7th or 8th course?


Miles


On 2012-05-02, at 2:05 PM, Edward Martin wrote:

> Hi Sean,
> 
> Actually, I do not have a 7-course lute at the moment, I use an 
> 8-course for renaissance lute, as for the reasons cited.  i did have 
> a 7-course, which was converted to an 11-course, Frei.  When I used 
> it as a 7-course lute, I essentially had it strung with a string 
> in-between the 2 tones... it was low tension for the D, high tension 
> with the F.  Using gimped strings on that, it worked OK, but i really 
> like the 8 course, as one has access to both.
> 
> English music seems to favor the D, where continental music seems to 
> favor the F.
> 
> ed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  At 12:52 PM 5/2/2012, Sean Smith wrote:
> 
>>  If you haven't yet ordered a lute, I would consider an 8 course,
>> which
>>  in my opinion is more versatile.A  It even allows you to cheat and
>> play
>>  10 course music...
>> 
>> Very true, Bruno, I loved exploring the Vallet and Ballard books for
>> years on my 8c, turning singers on to Airs de cours and knowing that
>> nearly all the English was, at least, doable w/out retuning something.
>> 
>> That said, I've seen some lovely 7c instruments and they sound better
>> for resisting the extra course. Ed Martin's, for example, as well as
>> Jacob Herringman's 7c Gerle. The latter is interesting in that it
>> retains the earlier parabolic neck which, I think, would not support 8
>> courses. If that is your route you're well set up to go to the 6c.
>> 
>> Ed, I believe you have a gut bass w/ a metal filament on the 7th
>> course on that instrument. Could you weigh in on how it does re:
>> Joshua's question? I'm curious myself.
>> 
>> Dalza expected lutes to accept a one-step scordatura and in one
>> 'suite' on the 5th course also. Could the extra half step really be
>> too much?
>> 
>> But truthfully, Joshua, a 7c is a fine place to start and I applaud
>> your resolution. You'll work out the D/F situation one way or another.
>> 
>> Sean
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> A
>> 
>>  A
>> 
>>  Bruno
>> 
>>  On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 11:48 AM, Braig, Eugene <[1]brai...@osu.edu>
>>  wrote:
>> 
>>It's beginning to sound like an 8-course might actually better suit
>>your needs. A While short lived in period, they seem pretty
>>ubiquitous today.
>>Best,
>>Eugene
>> 
>>  -Original Message-
>>  From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>  [mailto:[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Joshua Burkholder
>>  Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 11:40 AM
>>  To: [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>  Subject: [LUTE] Re-tuning the diapason of a 7c
>>  Dear lute-listers,
>>  A question from a beginner:
>>  First to introduce myself, my name is Joshua and I've been playing
>> the
>>  lute for several months now; I have been on the list for a couple
>> weeks
>>  and am really enjoying following your discussions. I have a rental
>>  7-course and I am now in the process of taking the plunge and
>> buying a
>>  lute of my own. After much reading, pondering and agonizing over the
>>  best number of courses to start with, I've come to the conclusion
>> that
>>  a 7-course best suits my needs. So onto to my question:
>>  I know that some people re-tune the 7th course from D to F as needed,
>>  but on my rental lute this seems quite impossible. The diapason is
>>  stung to F and if I drop it down to D it becomes far too wobbly and
>>  flabby. From this I assume that if I were to restring it to D, which
>>  I'd prefer on the whole, it would likewise be impossible to raise
>> it to
>>  F. Currently the lute is strung with Pyramid strings so the basses
>> are
>>  metal wound. Is it only possible to change from D to F on the same
>>  string if one uses gut strings (Poulton remarks to this effect in her
>>  tutor that if it's strung to be tuned at D "it will only be
>> possible to
>>  raise it to F if gut strings are used")? Otherwise I have to re- string?
>>  Or does someone use some other stringing solution, besides just
>> keeping
>>  it D and fingering the third fret for F (or buying an 8-course
>>  lute...)? I've read enough about stringing lutes to understand that
>> it
>>  will be a while before I understand anything about stringing lutes...
>>  Thank you for taking the time to help out a newcomer.
>>  Best wishes,
>>  Joshua
>>  To get on or off this list see list information at
>>  [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> 
>>  --
>> 
>>  A
>> 
>>  Bruno Cognyl-Fournier
>> 
>>  A
>> 
>>  [6]www.estavel.org
>> 
>>  A
>> 
>>  --
>> 
>> References
>> 
>>  1. mailto:brai...@osu.edu
>>  2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>  3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>  4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>>  5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>  6. http://www.estavel.org/
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edward Martin
> 2817 East 2nd Street
> Duluth, Minnesota  55812
> e-mail:  e...@gamutstrings.com
> voice:  (218) 728-1202
> http://www.facebook.com/p

[LUTE] Re: Fret tying on a theorbo

[Miles Dempster]

Once I was using polished gut to tie a new fret and the knot wouldn't hold.
After several attempts (and increasing frustration) it occurred to me to 
lightly sand the surface of the string. It did the trick.

another 2 penneth

Miles



On 2012-04-09, at 7:25 AM, Anthony Hart wrote:

> I also find if you dampen the gut slightly ( not too much as you don't
> want a soggy neck!!) the gut then shrinks slightly when dry.
> 
> my 2 penneth.
> 
> Anthony
>> 
>>   Mace's advice is relevant, and practical: tie the fret, then pull it
>>   higher up the neck to stretch it, then pull tight again and tie: repeat
>>   a number of times.
>> 
>>   It also helps if you can pre-stretch the gut (used strings are possible
>>   if not too worn)
>> 
>>   Martyn
>>   --- On Mon, 9/4/12, Mark Probert  wrote:
>> 
>> From: Mark Probert 
>> Subject: [LUTE] Fret tying on a theorbo
>> To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> Date: Monday, 9 April, 2012, 7:16
>> 
>>   Hi, all.
>>   I haven't quite got the hang of tying my own frets on my 13c swan-neck.
>>   The fret gut is quite thick (1.10) for the second fret and I my issue
>>   is
>>   that the gut is hard to tie into a good tight knot.  Does anyone have
>>   any tips?  Do you soak the end of the gut to flex it up a little?  Or
>>   just pull harder and tighter?
>>   Any experienced advice appreciated.
>>   Many thanks?
>>   . mark
>>   To get on or off this list see list information at
>>   [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> 
>>   --
>> 
>> References
>> 
>>   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> __
> Anthony Hart MSc, LLCM,ALCM.
> Musicologist and Independent Researcher
> Highrise Court 'B', Apt 2, Tigne' Street, Sliema, SLM3174, MALTA
> Tel: +356 27014791; Mob: +356 9944 9552.
> e-mail: resea...@antoninoreggio.com;
> web: www.monsignor-reggio.com
> 
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: Vimeo: Monica Pustilnik playing Piccinini

[Miles Dempster]

Yes, in the video at stake, Monica doesn't appear to push down into the strings.

However, even with Monica's hand position, if you let the last joint collapse, 
you can impart a vertical movement to the string at the instant of contact.

I won't say any more. As I said, I will let the pedagogues explain. ;-)

Miles



On 2012-03-28, at 4:27 PM, Mathias Rösel wrote:

>> Modern classical guitar technique also aims to have the string vibrate
> vertical to
>> the soundboard. I'll leave it to the pedagogues to explain how!
> 
> Hm, haven't seen players do it yet. In the video at stake, she isn't doing
> it either, at least not for the glimpse that the cam focusses on her RH.
> What I see is mere nails (not the tip of the flesh), hitting strings
> parallel to the soundboard (http://vimeo.com/37273475 00:35-40). That's what
> I was referring to.
> 
> BTW that's the way I was taught and used to play the classical guitar
> myself, and I should do it again, yes, whatever the NGRW (New Guitar
> Religious Ways). And I find Monica's results amazing and lovely, howsoever
> guitarishly connotated (no offense intended).
> 
> Mathias
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Vimeo: Monica Pustilnik playing Piccinini

[Miles Dempster]

Modern classical guitar technique also aims to have the string vibrate vertical 
to the soundboard.
I'll leave it to the pedagogues to explain how!

Miles
On 2012-03-28, at 9:05 AM, Mathias Rösel wrote:

> Howard,
> 
> Thanks for your very informed remark. Indeed, Piccinini writes in his
> avertimenti about the thumb, ch. vi: "Io non approvo, che habbia l'vnga
> molto longa" (I don't endorse it to have a very long nail).
> And about the other fingers, ch. vii: "Certamente debbono havere le vngue
> tanto longhe che auanzino le carne e non piu" (they surely need to have
> nails as long as to pass the flesh, and not further).
> 
> About his distinct playing technique, ch. vii: "Quando si fara una pizzicata
> (…) si piglierà la detta corda con la sommità della carne & vrtandola verso
> il fondo, si farà che l'vngna lasci sfuggire tutte due le corde".
> (Striking a string, one must grip the said string with the tip of the flesh
> and, bouncing it toward the soundboard, the nail will let escape both
> strings).
> 
> That is a bit different, if I'm not mistaken, from modern guitar nail
> playing technique in that the direction of the vibration of the string is
> different. Vertical to the soundboard with Piccinini, parallel to the
> soundboard on the modern classical guitar. That makes a difference in sound,
> nails or not. But frankly, I haven't seen or heard players with Piccinini's
> technique so far. Any hints appreciated.
> 
> Mathias
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mar 27, 2012, at 3:40 AM, Mathias Rösel wrote:
>> 
>>> What I was referring to is the position of her right hand close to the
>>> bridge, her playing with nails, and the initial movements of her index
>>> and middle fingers from the root joints. That's how I was taught to
>>> play the classical guitar.
>> 
>> Piccinini's 1623 foreword specifically instructs players to use nails.  Of
> course, he
>> may have been influenced by modern classical guitar technique.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Kapsberger - chitarrone

[Miles Dempster]

I'm working on Kapsberger's Toccata 7ma from his Libro IV for chitarrone.

If anyone on this list is willing to help me figure out how to interpret the 
piece, please contact me off list.


Thanks


Miles Dempster





To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Rubber mat

[Miles Dempster]

Adam,

If you have a strap button on your lute (next to your bridge), attach a loop of 
ribbon to it.

Now, pass the ribbon (the one which you have already tied to the peg box) 
through this loop, and then sit on it.

This helps to keep the bottom of the lute from sliding away from you.


Miles

>   Hi folks
> 
>   So I finally received my first lute yesterday.  I've been trying to
>   practice out of the beginning of the baroque lute companion, and am
>   having a bit if trouble keeping the lute in position on my lap.
> 
>   I tried the ribbon method, where I tie it to the peg box, wrap it
>   around my back and sit on it.  This keeps the neck in position, but the
>   lute still wants to slip out forward away from my chest.
> 
>   Anyone have any ideas for where I could get a sheet of rubber to put in
>   my lap?  I'd really rather use that instead of leather if I can get
>   away with it.
> 
>   Many thanks!
> 
>   Adam
>   --
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


--

[LUTE] Re: String hairs

[Miles Dempster]

Here's something that I posted in 2005:

Eliott Chapin, as he described in a previous posting to this list, has
devised a way for extending the life of gut strings, chanterelles in particular:

1. Before assembling the string on the lute, raise it to the
approximate tension under which it will operate. For example, attach
one end to a nail or door handle, and hang a suitable weight on the
other end.

 2. Make a small wad out of tissue paper, Kleenex or what-have-you.

3. Put a few drops of Krazy Glue on the wad

4. Very quickly run the wad down the length of the string.

As far as I understand it, the glue, which has a very low surface
 tension, quickly penetrates the fibres, and has the effect of binding
them together. In my experience, the string will resist much longer
before starting to degrade and fray.


Miles



On 2012-01-20, at 5:49 PM, Anthony Hind wrote:

>   How do you apply it Ed? Do you take it completely off the lute, or
>   apply with extreme care and a match stick, or similar?
>   Regards
>   Anthony
>   PS I suppose it should be really minimal, application to the whole
>   string might give an interestingly stiff string?
> __
> 
>   De : Ed Durbrow 
>   A : David Smith ; LuteNet list
>   
>   Envoye le : Vendredi 20 janvier 2012 13h20
>   Objet : [LUTE] Re: String hairs
> You can try a bit of superglue.
> On Jan 19, 2012, at 3:25 PM, David Smith wrote:
>   I have a new lute that has gut strings on it. I have had it for
>   about
> 3
>   days. The 1^st string has unraveled a single "hair" about the 7^th
>   fret. In the past I have just cut these as short as possible but
>   frequently the string breaks within a couple of weeks. Is there any
>   better way to treat these "hairs"?
> Ed Durbrow
> Saitama, Japan
> [1][1]http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
> [2][2]http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/
> [3][3]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
> --
>   References
> 1. [4]http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
> 2. [5]http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/
> 3. [6]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
>   To get on or off this list see list information at
>   [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
>   --
> 
> References
> 
>   1. http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
>   2. http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/
>   3. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
>   4. http://www.youtube.com/user/edurbrow?feature=watch
>   5. http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/
>   6. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
>   7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 


--

[LUTE] Re: Le Roy Dentice and Octave stringing

[Miles Dempster]

My understanding is that, generally speaking, the purpose of the octave is to 
brighten up a course which would otherwise sound too muddy.
Since 'muddiness' increases with string thickness, if the 5th course doesn't 
need an octave, then why would the 4th course would need one?

Miles


On 2011-11-25, at 8:04 AM, Anthony Hind wrote:

>   Matthias, I am not quite sure why we may infer the following:
>   "I understand the author as saying that a) he himself has an octave
>   string
>   with his 5th course, as opposed to b) Dentice and followers (Italians
>   in
>   general?) who have unisons for the 5th course. One may infer that
>   Dentice
>   also had unisons for his 4th course." Mathias
>   I have unissons on the 5th course of my 7c lute, but octaves on my
>   fourth, but perhaps I have missed something.
>   Regards
>   Anthony
> __
> 
>   De : Mathias Roesel 
>   A : 'Lute Net' 
>   Envoye le : Jeudi 24 Novembre 2011 17h35
>   Objet : [LUTE] Re: Le Roy Dentice and Octave stringing
>> Neverthelesse the Tune self of the same .F. Is found in the same
>> compainie, and eight of the greate fift stryng:
>> which reason could not be in Lutes, tuned after the manner of Fabrice
>   Dentice
>> the Italian, and other his followers. Where those strynges that
>   satnde
>   twoo and
>> twoo together, bee sette in one Tune and not by eightes, which thei
>   do for
>   a
>> perfection of harmonie, in avoiding many unissons, which those eight
>   would
>> cause."
>> 2. I understand Le Roy is saying that Dentice used a unison 5th
>   course,
>   not just a
>> unison 4th. Is this right?
>   I understand the author as saying that a) he himself has an octave
>   string
>   with his 5th course, as opposed to b) Dentice and followers (Italians
>   in
>   general?) who have unisons for the 5th course. One may infer that
>   Dentice
>   also had unisons for his 4th course.
>   Mathias
>   To get on or off this list see list information at
>   [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
>   --
> 
> References
> 
>   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 


--

[LUTE] Re: Grand Staff Lute Sheet music.

[Miles Dempster]

All the lute music which is available in midi format is easily convertible to 
grand staff.

Miles


On 2011-11-07, at 12:16 PM, Tobiah wrote:

> I'd be grateful for a pointer to a site that has any amount
> of lute music arranged for the grand staff.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tobiah
> 
> 
> 
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: [Le_luth] Dedillo

[Miles Dempster]

Dear Arto,

Thanks for your 'net article', very interesting.

Wouldn't a single 'tastini' be a tastino?   ;-)


Best


Miles

On 2011-08-19, at 1:32 PM, wikla wrote:

> Dear Martin and all,
> 
> in 1995 I wrote a small "net article" on V. Galilei's remarks on tastini,
> see
>  http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/fronimo.html
> 
> Best,
> 
> Arto
> 
> On Fri, 19 Aug 2011 18:11:33 +0100, Martin Shepherd 
> wrote:
>> Er - it cost me at least twice that much, from that source.  But worth 
>> it, I think.  There is much in what Galilei says which has been 
>> overlooked, for instance the details of his remarks on temperaments and 
>> tastini are worth grappling with.
>> 
>> Off to Nice tommorrow morning
>> 
>> Martin
>> 
>> On 19/08/2011 17:26, A. J. Ness wrote:
>>> The McClintock translation is available from A-R Editions, agents for 
>>> the publisher, American Institute of Musicology (a private 
>>> organization, not the AMS).  See their website.  The price has 
>>> apparenty not been raised since the book appeared in the 1960s.  It's 
>>> still about $25.  Quite a bargain.
>>> - Original Message - From: 
>>> To: "Martin Shepherd" 
>>> Cc: "Lute List" 
>>> Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 12:04 PM
>>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: [Le_luth] Dedillo
>>> 
>>> 
  "...the way the 7 course vihuela players did it was strictly 
 mental- by
  tuning the 4th course down from f to e, and just "thinking" of it as
> G
  instrument with a "high" treble course..."
  I have personally done this in situations requiring a D bass lute,
  (lute duets/ensemble, bass singers, playing a bass viol part) -but
  having only a 7-course tenor G lute available. It's a really fun 
 mental
  kick when you finally fool yourself into feeling that your 1st course
  actually is a high 7th course.
  Dan
__
 
  --
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 
>>> 
>>> 
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: two fifteenth century songs arranged by Eric Redlinger

[Miles Dempster]

I wouldn't fret about that.

Miles


On 2011-05-21, at 4:01 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote:

> It would do so as soon as it had frets on its neck.
> RT
> - Original Message - From: "Monica Hall" 
> To: "Stuart Walsh" 
> Cc: "Lutelist" 
> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 3:57 PM
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: two fifteenth century songs arranged by Eric Redlinger
> 
> 
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "Stuart Walsh" 
>> To: "Lute Net" 
>> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 7:36 PM
>> Subject: [LUTE] two fifteenth century songs arranged by Eric Redlinger
>> 
>> 
>>> I tried to send this a while ago but it never showed up. Maybe someone was 
>>> censoring my some slightly dodgy tuning. Anyway: here is a shot at a couple 
>>> of arrangements of fifteenth century songs. The music is a lot earlier than 
>>> the earliest known lute music but very attractive and not difficult 
>>> technically.
>>> 
>>> (Probably the lute should be in some arcane temperament...and played with a 
>>> plectrum etc etc).
>> 
>> Never mind the tuning - it's nice - but would the lute have been played 
>> polyphonically in the (early) 15th century?
>> 
>> Monica
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-L_GXq78QY
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Anyone interested can find these ,and similar pieces,  here:
>>> 
>>> http://medievallute.info/pdf/
>>> 
>>> In an FAQ, Trystero Montevideo (aka Eric Redlinger - thanks to RT for that) 
>>>  says:
>>> 
>>> .. the elegance of the counterpoint comes through even in a simple 
>>> rendering of these songs,
>>> and in fact this is the primary reason I have chosen to make them available 
>>> in this (non-historical) way.
>>> The intabulations included here contain most of the cantus/tenor structure 
>>> and incorporate notes from the
>>> countertenor when they are "essential" to the flow of the song (as in 
>>> imitative passages, for example)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Stuart
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: [LUTE] Kraków, Biblioteka Jagiello ńska, Mus. ms 40032 (olim Berlin)

[Miles Dempster]

   John Griffiths is likely to be your man for this info:

   [1]http://www.vihuelagriffiths.com/JohnGriffiths/Barbarino.html

   On 2010-12-22, at 10:10 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote:

 Is there an online listing WITH concordances of the contents of this
 Ms?
 --
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.vihuelagriffiths.com/JohnGriffiths/Barbarino.html
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: mac - any other?

[Miles Dempster]

Yes, most of what you say Roman is correct, however I wouldn't say that it is a 
'problem' that I wrote it for use by myself. Any Mac user, as I do, can run 
Windows and enjoy the excellent features of Django, Fronimo, Tab and others. My 
program is a different kind of tool which enables me to efficiently undertake 
jobs such as encoding large manuscripts such as Herbert of Cherbury, Cracow 
40032, the incipits of all Italian 17th manuscript sources etc. It also 
produces voice-separated Midi files to facilitate conversion to staff notation 
- several lute professionals, when recording CDs, have asked me to translate 
their tab into staff notation for the recording studio.

Miles


On 2010-09-20, at 10:39 AM, Roman Turovsky wrote:

> Yes, there is.
> The problem with it is that the program in question was written for the sole 
> use by its creator, who happened to be so secretive as cover his hands during 
> demonstrations, to keep his input method secret.
> Apparently he hoped to generate income from prospective tab typesetting jobs.
> However that was the last news we've ever had about this program, with no 
> evidence whatsoever of its applicability in the real world.
> 
> I simply keep a PC dedicated to Django, Fronimo, and a few audio programs, 
> and a Mac for video and graphics.
> RT
> 
> 
> - Original Message - From: 
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, September 20, 2010 10:00 AM
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: mac - any other?
> 
> 
>> Are there any native mac programs (for the intel based macs) to write lute 
>> tab? (rather than running windows on a mac)
>> 
>> 
>> trj
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> BTW: I have VMware Fusion on my mac, and HIGHLY recommend VMware over their 
>> competitor, but still would rather work in mac OS if possible
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  Anyone out there who might be a fronimo user know of a mac program
>> that reads fronimo files - just got a mac = any suggestions
>> --
>>  To get on or off this list see list information at
>>  [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> 
>>  --
>> 
>> References
>> 
>>  1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: geared pegs and Dan Larson's lute

[Miles Dempster]

But isn't there still the problem of the strings sticking on the nut?

Miles

On 2010-06-20, at 9:07 PM, Edward Martin wrote:

> I saw this lute in Dan Larson's shop yesterday.  It is a very, very 
> nice Frei, and yes, the pegs, or kegs, or whatever you want to call 
> them, are very nice, very interesting.  They are, as DT says, smooth 
> as butter, and they will never slip, as pegs do.  They are plain, but 
> very attractive..
> 
> I don't know the cost, but I think Dan said somewhere around $30 
> each.  But, what an improvement over friction pegs!  Not only can one 
> tune more accurately, but quicker, with no errors, i.e., 
> slipping.  Yes, they do need to be fitted by a luthier, but Dan 
> informs me they are quite easy to put in.
> 
> The person who sells these gears has been after Dan for a while, to 
> try them on lutes, but Dan resisted, thinking the weight was too 
> much.  But, There is no noticeable difference in weight that I could 
> discern as compared to pegs, and the sound is not affected in any way.
> 
> I am most impressed. I have ordered a set for my vihuela.
> 
> ed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 05:21 PM 6/20/2010, Edward Mast wrote:
>> I don't have geared pegs on my cello, but know a cellist - and a 
>> violinist - who does.  They like them a lot.  My questions would be:
>> 1)  How much would each peg for a lute cost?
>> 2)  Would they need to be fitted by a luthier, or could the player 
>> do it him/herself?
>> 3) Assuming a peg with gears weighs more than a plain wooden peg 
>> (?),  would geared pegs add significantly to   the weight of the peg 
>> box?  Enough to change the balance of the instrument?
>> 
>> Ned
>> On Jun 20, 2010, at 3:33 PM, David Tayler wrote:
>> 
>>> At BFX 2010, I had the opportunity to play Dan Larson's Frey lute.
>>> Well, first off, this was a really nice lute, and all gut strung with
>>> some really cool strings.
>>> This lute also had geared pegs, which look just like real pegs. I
>>> mean, they are real pegs, not imaginary pegs, but hopefully you know
>>> what I mean.
>>> I have seen the pegs for some time now on Gambas, but this was my
>>> first lute adventure.
>>> The pegs work great! They turn like butter, but have an internal
>>> braking system to stop them from "frapping" to use the historical term.
>>> You can see very detailed photos of the lute on Flickr
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/voicesofmusic/sets/72157624142677939/
>>> 
>>> I would love to have a cittern or orpharion with these pegs!
>>> dt
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
> 
> 
> Edward Martin
> 2817 East 2nd Street
> Duluth, Minnesota  55812
> e-mail:  e...@gamutstrings.com
> voice:  (218) 728-1202
> http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name
> http://www.myspace.com/edslute
> 
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: Bach on Theorbo

[Miles Dempster]

   There is a version of several suites from Score Conversions arranged by
   Rob MacKillop.

   [1]http://www.scoreconversions.com/

   Here is the link to the site.

   Miles Dempster

   On 2010-03-18, at 7:59 AM, Graham Freeman wrote:

 Wise Luters,
 Does anyone know of a good edition of the Bach Cello Suites for
 theorbo? They've been recorded a number of times. Ideally, I'd make
   my
 own, but I'd like to see a good transcription of them first.
 With thanks,
 Graham Freeman
 --
 Dr. Graham Freeman
 Ph. D Musicology
 University of Toronto
 [1]freeman.gra...@gmail.com
 --
   References
 1. [2]mailto:freeman.gra...@gmail.com
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.scoreconversions.com/
   2. mailto:freeman.gra...@gmail.com
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Drewies Accorde

[Miles Dempster]

I have just created a solo version of Dreweries Accordes. It works quite well, 
and is not too hard to play.
If any one wants a copy, just let me know.

Miles Dempster


On 2010-01-25, at 2:27 PM, Nancy Carlin wrote:

>   Rainer has asked about where there is a solo version of this piece that
>   we know as a duet, and I don;t know of any. But what about other
>   English duets in solo versions? I have played through several Flat
>   Pavans that certainly don't have the charm of the duet. I have always
>   thought that some of the treble and ground duets might be successfully
>   re-arranged as solos. There is the Lord Willoughy duet, where the
>   second part seems to have been added later and has a melody line that
>   is a sort of descant. I can't think of any other duets with solo
>   versions. Does anhyone know of others?
>   Nancy
>   At 12:54 AM 1/25/2010, Spring, aus dem, Rainer wrote:
> 
>> Greetings everyone,
>> And a bealted Happy New Year.
>> A quick enquiry re above. Is this piece available for solo lute. I
> think it is very nice and would like to play it.
> No, only one part of a duet has survived.
> Best wishes,
> Rainer aus dem Spring
> IT Application Services
> CONFIDENTIALITY DISCLAIMER
> The information in this email and in any attachments is confidential
> and may be privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please
> destroy this message, delete any copies held on your systems and
> notify the sender immediately.
> You should not retain, copy or use this email for any purpose
> outside of any NDA currently existing between Toshiba Electronics
> Europe GmbH and yourselves.
> Toshiba Electronics Europe GmbH
> Hansaallee 181 - 40549 Duesseldorf - Germany
> Phone: +49 (211) 5296-0 - Fax: +49 (211) 5296-400
> Handelsregister Duesseldorf HRB 22487
> Geschaeftsfuehrer: Hitoshi Otsuka
> Amtsgericht Duesseldorf
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
>   Nancy Carlin Associates
>   P.O. Box 6499
>   Concord, CA 94524  USA
>   phone 925/686-5800 fax 925/680-2582
>   web site - [2]www.nancycarlinassociates.com
>   Representing:
>   FROM WALES - Crasdant  & Carreg Lafar,  FROM ENGLAND - Jez Lowe & Jez
>   Lowe & The Bad Pennies,  FROM SPAIN - La Musgana and now representing
>   EARLY MUSIC - The Venere Lute Quartet, Paul Beier, The Good Pennyworths
>   & Morrongiello & Young
>   Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA
>   web site - [3]http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org
>   --
> 
> References
> 
>   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>   2. http://www.nancycarlinassociates.com/
>   3. http://lutesocietyofamerica.org/
> 

[LUTE] Re: Django on a Mac using VirtualBox?

[Miles Dempster]

I run Windows XP under Parallels on my Intel Mac.It allows me to run  
any Windows application,


MIles


On 15-Sep-09, at 12:56 PM, Ed Durbrow wrote:


  So what would be the best way to run Django on an Intel Mac?

  On Sep 16, 2009, at 1:28 AM, [1]dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote:

  Is anyone successfully running Django on a Mac using VirtualBox
Open

  Source Edition?

  from what I can see, that is a bit twisted; but then, such is the
  nature
  of virtualization.
  Powerful and recent x86 hardware, running Mac Leopard OSX to host a
  virtualized machine which then runs some version of Windows, or  
Linux,

  or
  Ubuntu or something you yourself have concocted (PDP-8 anyone?) ...
  You would need Vista or Windows XP on the virtual machine for Django
  which
  claims to work that way.  Hope you have enough experience to be your
  own
  tech support; I dont think this will be a case of pop in the CD and
  turn
  it loose.
  making host USB devices accessible to the virtual machine is a cost
  item;
  hope you have sata drives on the host machine.  Hmm, how do they  
handle

  the keyboard?!?
  --
  Dana Emery

  Ed Durbrow
  Saitama, Japan
  [2]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp
  [3]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/

  --

References

  1. mailto:dem...@suffolk.lib.ny.us
  2. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp
  3. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: quick question on fretting

[Miles Dempster]

Actually, the 12 fret (octave) won't be exactly half way. When you  
press the string down it increases in tension (and pitch). Hence,  
frets are placed slightly nearer to the nut in order to compensate.


Miles

On 6-Aug-09, at 4:50 AM, Stuart Walsh wrote:


I should know this and I could look it up but it's just this:


What fret is where half the string length is? E.g if the string  
length was 64cms, what fret would be 32cms from nut/bridge?



Thanks

Stuart



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: two new videos

[Miles Dempster]

That's perfectly clear now!

Miles


On 7-Mar-09, at 1:30 AM, David van Ooijen wrote:


On Sat, Mar 7, 2009 at 12:40 AM, Miles Dempster
 wrote:

David,

The g# on the 4th fret an octave higher...? Does that mean that  
your second

course is not re-entrant?


Did I writet that??

One cannot be clear enough:
Open 4th string g is one octave higher than open 7th string G.
We're playing Monteverdi, so it's 1/4 comma meantone. This means 1st
fret 4th string is an a-flat, not that I need one, but I didn't use a
tastino here and the fret is set high, so it certainly is not a g#. In
stead, when I need a g# in this octave, I play it on the 4th fret on
string 2. That makes this a double re-entrant theorbo in a, unless I'm
mixing things up even more. ;-)


David






--
***
David van Ooijen
davidvanooi...@gmail.com
www.davidvanooijen.nl
***



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: two new videos

[Miles Dempster]

David,

The g# on the 4th fret an octave higher...? Does that mean that your  
second course is not re-entrant? A toy theorbo indeed.


Miles Dempster



On 6-Mar-09, at 5:11 PM, David van Ooijen wrote:


On Fri, Mar 6, 2009 at 11:05 PM,   wrote:


On 3/6/2009, "David van Ooijen"  wrote:

From Monteverdi's Maria Vespers. It's from a concert in 2006.

Pulchra es:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55n1n6vNScM
(note the glaringly obvious tastini on the theorbo)


Beautiful performances (and singers! ;-). Thanks David!

But I found just only one "tastino" for the F sharp on the 4th string
1st fret, not a number of "tastini"... (singular/plural message...;-)


Ah, glaringly obvious Italian mistake by me, sorry. One tastino,
singular, first fret strings 7 (still on the fingerboard in those
days) to have a pure G# (toy-theorbo in a). The g# one octave higher I
play on te fourth fret, second string, _not_ on the first fret fourth
string.

David


--
***
David van Ooijen
davidvanooi...@gmail.com
www.davidvanooijen.nl
***



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re : Left-handed piano - was Re: Re : Re: restring?

[Miles Dempster]

Just visited the site:  www.lefthandedpiano.co.uk/

They sell a MIDI device that will convert your electronic keyboard from left to 
right.

Cheers


Miles


- Message d'origine -
De: Ron Fletcher 
Date: Vendredi, Janvier 9, 2009 5:52 pm
Objet: [LUTE] Re: Re : Re: restring?
À: "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" 


> IMHO The piano keyboard has remained standard with bass to the left and
>  treble to the right.  This is because the right hand is normally more
>  dextrous to cope with the fast playing required at that end.  
>  The left hand, being slower can more easily deal with the bass notes.
>  
>  But the question remains, is there such a thing as a left-handed piano?
>  It poses a lot of problems for visiting pianists, duettists and
>  piano-tuners!  (Maybe the brake and accelerator are the other way round
>  too?)
>  
>  Best Wishes
>  
>  Ron (UK)
>  
>  -Original Message-
>  From: wi...@cs.helsinki.fi [mailto:wi...@cs.helsinki.fi] 
>  Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 9:26 PM
>  To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Re : Re: restring?
>  
>  
>  Has anyone ever seen or heard about a left handed piano? Could be
>  interesting? And I suppose there really is no basis of bass being to 
> the
>  left, soprano to the right.
>  
>  Arto
>  
>  
>  
>  To get on or off this list see list information at
>  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>  
>  
>  
>

[LUTE] Re : Re: restring?

[Miles Dempster]

David,

What an instructive and  hilarious posting! Many thanks!

I am a lefty, but from the very beginning of my plucking life (age 12 or 
therabouts) I have played guitar and lute right-handed. Perhaps I am 
ambidextrous to some degree, but I certainly throw a ball with my left, and 
write with my left.

Since both hands must be used skilfully, I wonder if there is any fundamental 
reason why the plucking or bowing hand has to follow one's dexterity or 
sinister tendencies.

Just a thought


Miles Dempster

- Message d'origine -
De: David van Ooijen 
Date: Vendredi, Janvier 9, 2009 5:30 am
Objet: [LUTE] Re: restring?
À: lute 


> On Fri, Jan 9, 2009 at 8:12 AM, Jean-Marie Poirier
>   wrote:
>  > I'm afraid it isn't that simple... I am left-handed so I know what 
> I'm talking about. In fact a lute is not built like a guitar and it is 
> not enough to change the strings the other way round to ba able to 
> play a left-handed instrument.
>  
>  
>  Another lefty here. Jean-Marie is right, it's not a good idea to use 
> a
>  right-handed lute the other way round, too many complications. Having
>  said that, I do own one right-handed lute, and have re-strung it. Just
>  so you know what a bad idea that is, I'll give a short summary of the
>  problems playing that lute gives me. It's a 7-course: single first
>  course, 6 double courses. That makes 13 strings. I have not altered
>  the bridge or nut, so to have it as a left-handed 7-course I have a
>  single first and a single 7, only the middle 5 courses are double now.
>  That makes 12 strings, and one spare peg. It has a very awkward string
>  spacing, left and right. For fixing that, changing the nut would not
>  be a big problem, drilling some extra holes in the bridge is a little
>  more tricky, especially as they must be very close to the existing
>  holes. I never bothered. The neck is, as it should be, slightly
>  off-centre. That means it's slightly off-centre the wrong way round
>  now. You don't want to know how awkward that can be, playing in high
>  positions. The neck, the whole instrument in fact, is slightly warped,
>  perhaps designed to be so, perhaps it came about when the maker was
>  adjusting the instrument, perhaps it happened over time. The result is
>  a good action: low for the first course, a little higher for the
>  basses. But that's good action for a right-handed lute, so more circus
>  acts needed to play it as a lefty. Minor aberrations as slanted bridge
>  or nut to compensate for tuning differences in high and low strings I
>  don't particularly notice, the other problems are great enough to
>  occupy me when playing it. Luckily I once managed to push my knee
>  through the sound board, in a desperate act preventing the lute from
>  falling from my lap, firmly pressing it with my hand to make sure the
>  knee went all the way through, which resulted in an excellent repair
>  job by a better luthier than the original maker. He managed to improve
>  the action by shaving of a considerable part of the edge of the bowl,
>  before gluing the, repaired, soundboard back in place. Repair cost me
>  almost more than the lute itself.
>  Remains the question, why do I bother with an instrument like this,
>  having a good collection of quality lutes? It's my teaching instrument
>  when I have to go off to my music school: strung in all-carbon (yuk!)
>  and Pyramid (yuk!). From 415 to 440 in no-time between pupils. D-minor
>  for the next. Single bass to C, D, or F, whatever is needed. Everyone
>  is allowed to have ago on it, drop it, sit on it, leave it in the
>  rain, dry it on the heater. In good Dutch: it's my StuiterLuit
>  (bouncing lute). Would I ever bring it on stage? No. Would I ever
>  record with it? No. Would I ever play it at home for fun? No. Do I
>  ever treat my pupils and myself to a proper lute? Regularly. Should
>  you treat yourself to a proper lute? Definitively!
>  
>  David
>  
>  
>  -- 
>  ***
>  David van Ooijen
>  davidvanooi...@gmail.com
>  www.davidvanooijen.nl
>  ***
>  
>  
>  
>  To get on or off this list see list information at
>  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

[LUTE] Re: strings: direction of vibration?

[Miles Dempster]

My understanding is that double, rather than single, stringing is  
likely to have an effect on how a course will vibrate. I say this  
having read, somewhere, I can't remember where, a description of the  
physics of the sound of the piano.

Here is the piano logic applied to the lute:

When  you pluck the two strings simultaneously, they start vibrating  
together in phase.
However, they quickly adjust to vibrating together, more comfortably,  
with a phase separation of 180 degrees i.e. they vibrate in counter- 
motion. And, I suppose, that they would settle down vibrating  
parallel to the soundboard, even if they had been initially plucked  
to vibrate perpendicular to the soundboard.

This phenomenon of a quick shifting from 0 to 180 degrees phase shift  
is used to explain (in the case of the piano, anyway ) the difference  
between the tone of the attack and the more fluty aftersound.

Miles Dempster

On Aug 26, 2006, at 10:54 AM, Alexander Batov wrote:

>
> On Saturday, August 26, 2006 2:29 PM "LGS-Europe" wrote:
>
>
>
>> What direction should the strings get their maximum vibration for an
>> optimum
>> tone? Parallel to the sound board, perpendicular (at a right angle  
>> with
>> the
>> sound board) or something in between?
>>
>
> This doesn't matter. The stings stretch (points of max deviation)  
> and relax
> (when they come through the point of 'no vibration' - straight  
> line) and
> thus transmit the vibration energy to the bridge, so that it moves  
> in a
> 'rocking' way of motion (not up and down) and sends the waives of  
> vibrations
> along and across the soundboard.
>
>
>> And do people feel there is a
>> difference between instruments with single strings and double  
>> strings?
>>
>
> From what point of view?
>
>
>> And
>> between instruments with a bridge on which the string rest (classical
>> guitar) and instruments where the strings are only tied to the bridge
>> (lute)?
>>
>
> In the context of your question, again this doesn't matter (in both  
> cases,
> strings are _tied_ to the bridge). What mainly matters here is the  
> distance
> from the string(s) to the soundboard (i.e. the larger the distance  
> the more
> energy from vibrating string is transmitted to the soundboard).
>
>
>> David - not trying to start a war, just curious about people's  
>> believes
>> and
>> convictions
>>
>
> Beliefs and convictions ...? Just down to earth physics.
>
> Alexander
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

[LUTE] Re: Lute Publications

[Miles Dempster]

Thanks for the feedback on the letter 'd'.

You are the first person to describe it as confusing. Actually I  
designed it carefully, together with the other ciphers, so that each  
cipher would be distinctive - at least in my eyes.
One of the considerations was that it should be self-contained  
between staff lines, thus eliminating the need to have more than one  
version of it in order to avoid clashes with other ciphers on  
adjacent staff lines.

I can use any font, so one-off editions could be produced.

What shape of ciphers would you prefer? How would you make the tail  
more prominent without introducing visual noise?


Miles


On Aug 3, 2006, at 4:38 PM, Daniel Shoskes wrote:

> A great and worthwhile idea, especially for us time limited  
> amateurs who, despite stern admonitions, refuse to learn Italian tab.
>
> One comment: the tablature letter "d" in your samples has a very  
> confusing appearance. Any chance to change the font to something  
> with a more prominent tail?
>
> DS
>
> On Thursday, August 03, 2006, at 04:25PM, Miles Dempster  
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> For those of you looking for editions in French tablature, if have
>> just installed a fledgling website for my Score Conversions lute tab
>> activities.
>>
>> It lists the publications currently available.
>>
>> Here is the link.
>>
>> http://www.scoreconversions.com
>>
>> Any suggestions for new editions are most welcome.
>>
>> Miles Dempster
>>
>> --
>>
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

[LUTE] Lute Publications

[Miles Dempster]

Dear all,

For those of you looking for editions in French tablature, if have  
just installed a fledgling website for my Score Conversions lute tab  
activities.

It lists the publications currently available.

Here is the link.

http://www.scoreconversions.com

Any suggestions for new editions are most welcome.

Miles Dempster

--

To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: surrogate lute

[Miles Dempster]

Hi Wayne,

One of Colin Everett's Trave-lutes would most likely fit the bill.


Miles

On Feb 11, 2006, at 10:03 PM, Wayne Cripps wrote:

>
>
> Hi -
>
>  I am thinking that it would be nice to get a "knock around"
> instrument that I could leave at work or take in my car,
> that could stay outside its case a lot of the time, and
> that wouldn't break my hear or bankbook if it was damaged
> or stolen.  I see that the Yamaha 3/4 size childs classical
> guitar has about the same string length as my lute, and I
> wonder if any of you have experience with this instrument
> or any others of its ilk?  Could something like this be
> close enough in feel to a lute (though with single strings)
> to be worthwhile?  I have had my heart set on a "Hello Kitty"
> electric guitar, but somehow that just doesn't seem practical..
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

[LUTE] Re: Playing renaissance (7, 8 courses) repertoire in a 10c lute

[Miles Dempster]

For playing 6c music on a 10c lute, how about putting a small damper under 
the 7-10th courses? This would remove the " unwanted" sympathetic resonance.

Any thoughts about this as a solution?


Miles Dempster


- Original Message - 
From: "Charles Browne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Alexandre Bonatto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; 
Sent: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 18:51
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Playing renaissance (7, 8 courses) repertoire in a 10c 
lute


> Dear alexandre,
> the 10c lute is a beautiful instrument and the later repertoire for 9/10
> courses is well worth exploring. There are a number of arrangements of 
> both
> french and german baroque music for 10c lute and these often sit as well 
> on the
> 10c renaissance-tuned lute as on the d minor tuned baroque lutes. The 13c
> baroque instrument didnt appear until the early 18c. There are some 
> luthiers
> who make a 10c lute that can be easily adapted to a 11 c french baroque 
> lute
> and this might be worth exploring. The 'downside' of a 10c lute is that, 
> unless
> the string length is short it will be tuned with the top course at f# or f
> (a==440) and this will make it difficult to play in ensemble with other 
> 'g'
> lutes. It can be done -either by re-arranging the music or by using a 
> capo. The
> width of the finger-board will be wider and this can be more problematic 
> if you
> have small hands. 6c music may not sound so 'clean' as there will be some
> element of sympathetic vibration from the diapasons. It is worth looking 
> around
> before you buy and if possible borrow a 10c lute, as well as an 8c, and 
> see how
> it suits.
> Best of luck!
> Charles
>
>
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 

Re: thanks! (sticky strings)

[Miles Dempster]

Something that I haven't yet seen in this thread:

The string consists of 2 segments: a) between the peg and the nut, b) 
between the nut and the bridge.
When there is friction at the nut, it's possible to turn the peg 
slightly in either direction, changing the tension of the string 
between the peg and the nut, but without any effect on the tension of 
the string between the nut and the bridge. You can finely adjust the 
tuning by tugging the string with your fingers so as to ease it over 
the nut, and help in equalizing the tension on either side of the nut.


Miles Dempster

On Friday, May 13, 2005, at 12:45  PM, Dr. Marion Ceruti wrote:

> Hello Tim,
>
> Good ideas! One way to avoid many truns around the peg without
> cutting the string is to coil up the excess string at the back of the
> pegbox. I have seen this done with requinto strings also. It is
> better than cutting the strings because by leaving them long you
> can put them on other smaller instruments if they break. For example,
> I can use a ren lute first string on a mandolino because the pitch
> is an octave higher and the string length is exactly half (30 vs. 60 
> cm).
>
> Pegs tend to settle into particular positions where they like to be and
> it is hard sometimes to get them to go in between to get the right
> pitch. Twisting the peg back and forth tends to dislodge the peg out
> of these "catch positions." Also before tightening a string, put some 
> slack
> into it, twist it with the lower tension and then tighten it above the 
> pitch
> then finally let some out to ease into the right pitch. There are all
> different variations of this technique. Main thing is to turn your
> face away from the strings when you tighten them or wear goggles.
> Some people have had strings break and hit them in the face.
>
> Cheers,
> Marion
> safety first.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: timothy motz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: May 13, 2005 5:08 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Subject: Re: thanks!
>
> Derek,
> I've used Ivory soap in the grooves on my nut.  Same idea as beeswax.
> Another reason for the non-linear tuning can be that you have excess
> string wound around the peg in an irregular pattern.  So that as you
> turn the peg, you (in effect) have a peg with a changing diameter,
> leading to changes in how much string is taken up by one turn.
>
> You would think that a nice even turn of the peg would get you to the
> right amount of tension and the right pitch, but sometimes just
> twisting the peg back and forth seems to get to the right point more
> quickly.  I've also found that if I tighten the peg to above the
> correct pitch and then take it back down, I get it in tune more
> smoothly.
>
> Tim
>>
>>
>>  Original Message 
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>> Subject: Re: thanks!
>> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 00:14:22 -0700
>>
>>>
>>> Just before you try everything at once :^) I prefer beeswax to
>> graphite
>>> since it doesn't leave black marks on your nut. But definitely make
>>> sure your grooves are round (and a slightly greater radius than the
>>> string) first.
>>>
>>> Sean Smith
>>>
>>> On May 13, 2005, at 12:04 AM, Derek Monahan wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thank to everyone who respnded to my inquiry! I am
>>>> very grateful for your knowledge, and that this
>>>> community exists. I now have a wealth of information
>>>> (comparatively) about tuning issues. I will try everything.
>>>>
>>>> www.myspace.com/deflatormouse
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yahoo! Mail
>>>> Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
>>>> http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: Huwet

[Miles Dempster]

Martin,

You wrote:

> About halfway through the second page the subject appears in the bass 
> (starting on 2nd fret, 6th course) - perhaps that's the bit you were 
> referring to, Elliott?

No, this isn't the bit that Elliott was referring to, it's before that, 
and its rather more hidden or "suggested". Here is the passage; I have 
highlighted the key notes of the subject by putting them in capitals:

  2

A---a---
a-|-c---|-a---d-a-d---|-
-cc---d---d---|-d---c---c-d-|-C---A---|-
-d-e--e-d-E-e-|---c-|-|-
-ee---|-a-c-e---|---a-c---|-
--c---c-a-e-

3   2

-c---F-a---E---e-f---h---h-f-e-c-a--
-a---|-c---f-f-|---a-a-d---|
-D-c-|-d---|---A---|
-a-c-e-a-e---|---a-c---|-F-a---|
---c-|---a-e---|---c---|
---a-e-----|

Best


Miles Dempster

--




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

Re: Huwett

[Miles Dempster]

Yes Elliott,

It certainly does state the theme again in the bridge. Trust you to 
find it, even though it leaps octaves.

Miles

On Tuesday, April 26, 2005, at 10:20  PM, Elliott Chapin wrote:

> Some time ago I voiced to Miles Dempster, and later to Paul O'Dette, a
> thought about this piece: A seemingly meandering bridge actually 
> contains
> the main theme. This idea was apparently new at the time. More I can't 
> tell
> at the moment because my copy went with one of the Michael Schreiner 
> lutes
> that I no longer own. I still have the first Schreiner theorbo - 
> waiting
> for me to get back to writing transcriptions.
>
> At 09:18 PM 4/26/05, Bruno Correia wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Recently I have been working on the Huwett fantasia by Robert 
>> Dowland's
>> "A varietie of lute lessons". I'm trying to find recordings of this
>> piece but unfortunately I just found two, one from Lutz Kirchof and
>> another by Nigel North. In both recordings the piece is played as if 
>> the
>> lute was tuned in e. Why is that? Why they didn't play it on a lute in
>> g? Was the piece conceived for such a tuning?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.10.3 - Release Date: 25/4/2005
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
> www3.sympatico.ca/echapin
>
>
>

Re: Gallot speaks...

[Miles Dempster]

Wouldn't that be the "left" hand rather than the "right" that adds the 
ornaments?

Miles Dempster


On Monday, March 28, 2005, at 07:43  AM, Benjamin Narvey wrote:

> Yes, it is rather a pickle isn't it?
>
> I think the truest translation would be:
>
> "Do not flatter the strings with the right hand when studying to 
> master them."
>
> i.e.  When first learning a piece, don't add ornaments and "agrements" 
> with
> the right hand;  first off, learn the fingerings in a simple fashion.  
> This
> runs true with the nature of Gallot's other suggestions doubtless 
> designed for
> beginners [in particular no. 7, where he advises to learn pieces 
> "slowly"
> (lentement) and "cleanly" (nettement)].  Also, the idea of ornaments as
> flattery runs very true with the rhetorical concept of performance of 
> the
> time - I trust I don't need to go into detail on that point!
>
> Vostre tres humble, tres
> obeissant serviteur
>
> (;
>
> In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "Bernd Haegemann"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>  Happy Easter,
>>
>> in the beginning of his "Pièces de Luth Composées sur differens 
>> Modes..."
>> Gallot gives a short "Méthode qu'il faut observer pour jouer 
>> prprement du
> luth"
>> in 9 rules. They should be important, I thougth and tried to read 
>> them.
> Well, ...
>>
>> Could somebody please help me and explain the meaning of:
>>
>> 5. Ne flater pas les cordes de la main droite lors qu'on estudie pour 
>> s'en
>> rendre mieux le maistre.
>>
>> ? :-)
>>
>> Thank you very much.
>> BH
>>
>>
>>
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>
>
>

Re: lute siting

[Miles Dempster]

Do we take it to mean that you play left-handed theorbo?! :)

Miles


On Tuesday, February 15, 2005, at 10:37  AM, LGS-Europe wrote:

>> ...in "Tous les Matins du Monde" there was a brief shot of an ensemble
>> in which the theorbo, viewed from the back, was being played
>> "left-handed" ?!
>
> It wasn't me!
>
> David
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

Re: lute siting

[Miles Dempster]

...in "Tous les Matins du Monde" there was a brief shot of an ensemble 
in which the theorbo, viewed from the back, was being played 
"left-handed" ?!

On Tuesday, February 15, 2005, at 07:50  AM, Philippe Mottet wrote:

>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Monica Hall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: Howard Posner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 9:53 AM
>> Subject: Re: lute siting
>>
>>
>>> Good question.  Some are more "authentick" than others, but music is
>> usually
>>> the first casualty - no attempt is even made
>>>
>>> Monica
>>>

 You've seen a period movie in which everything is authentic to the 
 last
 detail?

>>>
>>
>   maybe "Tous les Matins du Monde" ?
>
> Philippe Mottet-Rio
>>
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

Re: Antwort: Re: horizontal spacing in tablature

[Miles Dempster]

Jon,

I can agree with the intent of your principle whereby...

> The notation should be the result of the local program, the 
> transmission
> should be the absolute notes.

however, in the case of tablature it has a serious flaw.

Tablature implies but generally does not specify note durations. 
Exceptionally, durations may be indicated by means of hold lines 
(Nicolas Vallet is a good example of this), but as a rule it is up to 
the performer to figure out how long each note should last. The course 
on which the note is to be played is essential to the core information 
to be transmitted.

To illustrate the point, try to convert the absolute notes into Midi 
values. You have to specify the start and stop event for each note. The 
start event is easy, the flags in the tablature tell you that. Stop 
events for one or more notes that follow each other on the same course 
are easy too (a new note marks the end of the previous one). But for 
the rest, it is pure interpretation.

Best


Miles Dempster




> Daniel and Alain,
>
> I confess my ignorance as to music printing and exchange software, and 
> it
> had been a long day and a longer evening. As usual, when late at 
> night, I
> tried to draw the general to the specific.
>
> You accurately "read between the lines" that my thrust was for data
> exchange. And that my long example of the attempts by some companies to
> monopolize the internet (considered a "free resource", although it is
> actually supported by the owners of the various main frames that do the
> routing in the network) was meant to speak to that issue.
>
> I'm glad to hear that there was an attempt at a universal data exchange
> format (NIF), and sad that it hasn't been used (although that might be 
> an
> inadequacy on its part). And pleased to hear that there is another 
> attempt
> (Music XML).
>
> The point is not that there should be free access to a programmer's 
> product,
> that would be counter productive to innovation. It is that there 
> should be a
> basic protocol agreed to by all involved for data exchange, rather 
> than a
> proprietary protocol that limits it. If any programmer wants to provide
> bells and whistles within his work piece that is fine, and each user 
> will
> have a preferred program for creating and printing music (or anything 
> else
> in some other protocol).
>
> Speaking specifically of music the ideal would be a protocol that could
> transmit without regard to notation. The absolute notes themselves. 
> Whether
> that was done as serial notes with individual time signatures, then 
> the next
> line (with voids for open chords, etc) so that there would be ten or 
> twenty
> series for a full score with a header to define them - or a parallel 
> set of
> notes (again with the rests and the voids) is irrelevant. But that is 
> what I
> would see as an ideal data exchange protocol. One that is converted 
> from
> notation to notes for transmission, and back to notation for 
> reception. Then
> the individual programs can treat them as they choose. Perhaps a
> modification, and expansion, of the MIDI protocol.
>
> The notation should be the result of the local program, the 
> transmission
> should be the absolute notes.
>
> Best, Jon
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

Re: Antwort: Re: horizontal spacing in tablature

[Miles Dempster]

Thomas,

Yes. Opinions of the suitability (let alone quality) of one program 
over the other are all relative.

If you read postings to the Score list, you will see that the really 
"professional" engravers would not touch Finale with a barge pole. They 
use Score instead.
Also, there a publishers who, for reasons of internal politics or sheer 
ignorance, insist on re-doing the typesetting with no improvement - or 
even degradation - to the final result.
I have personal experience of the latter.

Miles Dempster

On Wednesday, February 9, 2005, at 05:48  AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

>
>
>
> Dear Alain and others,
>
> being a programmer by myself I highly appreciate the work and effort 
> put in
> programs like Django or Fronimo. I would call both of them professional
> products which during the time I followed their development moved far 
> above
> the initial purpose to simply enter tabulature and which today stand as
> programs which provides us an easy to handle way to enter complete 
> scores.
> I've checked other programs as Encore (now incorporated in Finale) and
> Finale which in detail may offer a number of features which are not
> possible in "our" programs (at the moment - giving the dilligent work 
> will
> continue). There seems to be a tendency (as you already deteced) to 
> rather
> use expensive programs instead of programs better suited for a certain
> purpose. Again I think there are certain habits and prejudices which 
> create
> preferences for the one or the other program. One of this prejudices is
> "Finale is a mighty program and best suited for professional editions".
> This might be true in most cases but not necessarily for every project.
> Finale is not made for tabulature editing and it's painfull to enter
> tabulature there.
> To tell a story:
> A while ago I offered to enter some music (modern lute songs - in 
> Fronimo)
> for an edition but after finishing it I was told my settings would lack
> certain features and the complete project should be re-entered in 
> Finale
> (which I didn't want and quit my participation within the project). I 
> was
> finishing my work on the project in 2001 and felt happy about this. The
> edition in Finale is not made until now.
>
> Best wishes
> Thomas
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

Re: horizontal spacing in tablature

[Miles Dempster]

Dana,

My preference is to space, I find that it increases legibility. I also 
like to group flags for the same reason.


Miles Dempster


On Monday, February 7, 2005, at 06:54  PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

> I may have posed this question to the list in the past, but perhaps it 
> is time to
> do so again.
>
> My admitedly limited survey of historical printed sources shows a 
> diferent
> approach to horizontal spacing from that favored in modern staff 
> notation.
>
> In modern staff notation notes are spaced horizontally in a manner 
> intended to
> improve the musicians perception of the time they occupy.  This is not 
> strictly
> done, long notes are not given full width.  Historically it seems that 
> less
> concern was made for legibility and more for cramming in all the notes 
> that fit.
> Of course, all spacing rules get de-fenestrated when text must be 
> underlayed; so,
> this question is only pertinant for instrumental editions.
>
> My own preference is for historical, tight, unspaced setting; but, how 
> say the
> rest of you?  to space, or not to space...
>
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

Re: Gut strings - chanterelle

[Miles Dempster]

Tim,

Yes, I suppose, but only to a degree. since:
1. The quantity of Krazy glue is minimal
2. The glue gets chiefly absorbed into the fibres i.e. it doesn't lie 
on the surface
3. You don't get the reported "squeaky" effect

Miles


On Sunday, February 6, 2005, at 12:48  PM, Timothy Motz wrote:

> Miles,
> Aren't you duplicating the effect of varnished gut?
>
> Tim
>
> On Saturday, February 5, 2005, at 08:28  AM, Miles Dempster wrote:
>
>> So: A gut chanterelle is the most desirable and yet the most fragile.
>>
>> Eliott Chapin, as he described in a previous posting to this list, has
>> devised a way for extending the life of gut strings, chanterelles in
>> particular:
>>
>> 1. Before assembling the string on the lute, raise it to the
>> approximate tension under which it will operate. For example, attach
>> one end to a nail or door handle, and hang a suitable weight on the
>> other end.
>>
>> 2. Make a small wad out of tissue paper, Kleenex or what-have-you.
>>
>> 3. Put a few drops of Krazy Glue on the wad
>>
>> 4. Very quickly run the wad down the length of the string.
>>
>> As far as I understand it, the glue, which has a very low surface
>> tension, quickly penetrates the fibres, and has the effect of binding
>> them together. In my experience, the string will resist much longer
>> before starting to degrade and fray.
>>
>>
>> Miles Dempster
>>
>> On Saturday, February 5, 2005, at 03:49  AM, Jon Murphy wrote:
>>
>>> James,
>>>
>>>>   It seems ironic for people who think gut has the best sound, to
>>> sacrifice
>>>> that sound on the chanterelle, where it probably has the most
>>>> noticeable
>>>> effect...  It almost makes more sense (unless you can afford to buy
>>>> all
>>> gut strings)
>>>> to have nylgut or nylon (which can literally last years) on every
>>>> course
>>> but
>>>> the 1st and 2nd; and to use gut on those strings, where the melody 
>>>> is
>>>> most
>>>> often found.  Just an idea...
>>>
>>> A good idea, but I think an impractical one for some lutes. And I
>>> confess
>>> that I've not tested gut yet for breaking pitch.
>>>
>>> With all due respect for the empiricals, I believe that gut and 
>>> nylgut
>>> -
>>> having a very similar density - use the same tension for the pitch.
>>> But that
>>> gut has less "tensile strength" so can't maintain the same pitch
>>> without
>>> breaking as can nylgut. And I know, from experience, that nylon will
>>> give
>>> you about a half to full tone higher on the chanterelle without
>>> breaking.
>>>
>>> So the problem of the lute is the chanterelle (there is a 16th C.
>>> manuscript
>>> that tells of the tuning, tune the chanterelle until it breaks, then
>>> tune a
>>> bit lower - an expensive approach as one has to replace the broken
>>> chanterelle). The range of the lute is defined by the vibrating
>>> length, and
>>> the material of the chanterelle. But as it has a fixed length across
>>> the nut
>>> it is also defined by the lower courses. I'll give up for the night
>>> here,
>>> leaving the question open on purpose.
>>>
>>> Best, Jon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: Gut strings - chanterelle

[Miles Dempster]

So: A gut chanterelle is the most desirable and yet the most fragile.

Eliott Chapin, as he described in a previous posting to this list, has 
devised a way for extending the life of gut strings, chanterelles in 
particular:

1. Before assembling the string on the lute, raise it to the 
approximate tension under which it will operate. For example, attach 
one end to a nail or door handle, and hang a suitable weight on the 
other end.

2. Make a small wad out of tissue paper, Kleenex or what-have-you.

3. Put a few drops of Krazy Glue on the wad

4. Very quickly run the wad down the length of the string.

As far as I understand it, the glue, which has a very low surface 
tension, quickly penetrates the fibres, and has the effect of binding 
them together. In my experience, the string will resist much longer 
before starting to degrade and fray.


Miles Dempster

On Saturday, February 5, 2005, at 03:49  AM, Jon Murphy wrote:

> James,
>
>>   It seems ironic for people who think gut has the best sound, to
> sacrifice
>> that sound on the chanterelle, where it probably has the most 
>> noticeable
>> effect...  It almost makes more sense (unless you can afford to buy 
>> all
> gut strings)
>> to have nylgut or nylon (which can literally last years) on every 
>> course
> but
>> the 1st and 2nd; and to use gut on those strings, where the melody is 
>> most
>> often found.  Just an idea...
>
> A good idea, but I think an impractical one for some lutes. And I 
> confess
> that I've not tested gut yet for breaking pitch.
>
> With all due respect for the empiricals, I believe that gut and nylgut 
> -
> having a very similar density - use the same tension for the pitch. 
> But that
> gut has less "tensile strength" so can't maintain the same pitch 
> without
> breaking as can nylgut. And I know, from experience, that nylon will 
> give
> you about a half to full tone higher on the chanterelle without 
> breaking.
>
> So the problem of the lute is the chanterelle (there is a 16th C. 
> manuscript
> that tells of the tuning, tune the chanterelle until it breaks, then 
> tune a
> bit lower - an expensive approach as one has to replace the broken
> chanterelle). The range of the lute is defined by the vibrating 
> length, and
> the material of the chanterelle. But as it has a fixed length across 
> the nut
> it is also defined by the lower courses. I'll give up for the night 
> here,
> leaving the question open on purpose.
>
> Best, Jon
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

Re: Instrument Sounding

[Miles Dempster]

David,

I once strung up my classical guitar with Pyramid lute strings i.e. 
thinner and thereby with less tension than regular guitar strings.

It was a lot easier to play without nails, and the sound was very nice. 
The volume was reduced but the overall effect was, in my view, 
successful.

Give it a try.

Miles



On Wednesday, December 15, 2004, at 08:35  AM, David Cassetti wrote:

>
>James,
>I have a Takamine Hirade Arte Ten Concert Model made in 1989. With 
> nails it
>sounded great, lots of volume and projection. Without nails thumb 
> under it
>doesn't sound bad, but it's rather dull and quiet by comparison. 
> Getting
>volume and tone seems to take a lot of effort. I tried the Alaska 
> Piks and
>the sound was much better but they still require some fingernail to 
> fit
>under, and they're a bit bulky.
>I guess my point is that I have a nice instrument that doesn't get 
> any
>playing time, but if I could find a quick and easy way install 
> fingernails,
>or found a set of strings more suitable for playing without nails, 
> I might
>pick  it up more often.  I'd like to play some of the classical 
> guitar
>repertory, but also some non-standard pieces (e.g. Luis de Milan's 
> fantasia
>13) that sound fantastic on a modern classical guitar with nails.
>The problem is even worse with a steel-string guitars, which I 
> would also
>like to play.
>-- David
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>In a message dated 12/14/2004 7:34:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
>  That's very interesting. If you have any insight into how your 
> student
>  achieves such a sound I'm all ears.
>  Before obtaining a lute I played classical guitar thumb-under 
> without
>  nails (about 8 years). While it was better than nothing, I found 
> that it
>  took a great deal of effort to get any sound volume compared to 
> nails.
>  The very high tension of the guitar strings seem to be one of the
>  problems. The modern classical guitar seems very unresponsive to 
> finger
>  pads. Now that I have a lute the contrast seems accentuated 
> because the
>  lute is so "live".
>
>
>Hi David,
>
>  I also have a student who plays a regular classical guitar "thumb 
> under"
>and sounds fine; although he does have large hands and his natural
>strength probably helps him get volume.
>  You might try a light tension string set; but it's hard to 
> diagnose the
>problem through e-mail.  What kind of guitar are you playing?  
> There are
>guitars that are more lightly built and could serve you better, 
> perhaps?  I
>might be able to help more if I knew where you're coming from with 
> this
>question.  You have a lute and seem happy with that; are you 
> wanting to play
>modern guitar repertoire also?
>
>   James
>
> References
>
>1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>2. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>

Herbert of Cherbury - Alain Veylit

[Miles Dempster]

Sorry to have to post this to the group, but I am trying to send email 
to Alain Veylit and it keeps bouncing.

Alain, could you please contact me privately re. your "Cherbury" plans?

Thanks


Miles Dempster

ACTION - was 415 vs 440 ...

[Miles Dempster]

Jon,

Of course you are correct in saying that "any string at any tension 
will always follow a straight line from bridge to nut..."

However, the ACTION problem associated with excessive string tension 
with lutes results from other phenomena which have not yet been 
explicitly described in this thread. To this point, you have been 
implicitly making "ceteris paribus" assumptions which don't necessarily 
hold in the case of lightly-built lutes.

Here are some things that I have experienced with my lutes:

1. The pull of the strings on the bridge tends to deform the shape of 
the soundboard. The bridge will tilt forward pushing the soundboard 
downwards in front of it, and raising the soundboard behind it. As part 
of this process, the whole area around the bridge might lift as well, 
in effect raising the bridge. It depends, as far as I can conclude, on 
how the top is barred underneath. Excessive tension will increase these 
effects.

2. Over time, tension in the strings can pull up the neck.

3. When ambient humidity changes, the soundboard will expand/contract 
differentially across the grain more than along the grain. This forces 
the shape of the whole bowl of the lute to change, and the angle of the 
neck will change. A lute builder has demonstrated this effect to me 
with a lute without the top on. When you widen or narrow the bowl in 
its "flabby" state, you can see the neck rising and falling, Maybe it's 
the other way round, but the effect is there nonetheless.

My conclusion: Excessive string tension on a lute can result in the 
action being higher that it would have been otherwise.

I'm sure that the lute builders amongst us will be able to describe 
these things more accurately.

Best


Miles Dempster




On Tuesday, April 27, 2004, at 03:40  AM, Jon Murphy wrote:

> Paolo,
>
>> I tried to mount a wrong set of strings on a classic guitar: the 
>> action
> became too high to play and finally the  neck  >broke.
>
> Not too high, too hard. It feels high as you have to press harder 
> because of
> the greater tension (which apparently also broke the neck). Until 
> geometry
> is negated any string at any tension will always follow a straight 
> line from
> bridge to nut (except a totally relaxed string that won't vibrate). 
> The art
> of the instrument maker is to combine the action (hard or soft) that 
> the
> player needs for the style of play, and the width of the vibration 
> (volume)
> desired - that defined, in part, by the strength of the stroke, be it 
> bow or
> right hand, so as not to "buzz" on the frets. It is a compromise, and 
> one
> that has been well solved over the years in the various stringed
> instruments.
>
> Best, Jon
>
> (player of a "not-real-lute", guitar, harps, psaltery, bowed psaltery, 
> and
> dulcimers).
>
>
>
>

Re: Electronic Tuners

[Miles Dempster]

Hello Craig,

When I use a tuning fork (to tune my lute) I strike the fork on my knee 
and then hold it with my front teeth. You can hear it perfectly, and it 
leaves both of your hands free to tune the instrument.

Regards,


Miles

On Saturday, January 17, 2004, at 10:29  AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

> Vance wrote:
>
>> I am not replying to your post specifically, but using it as a piggy 
>> back
>> into this discussion.  Neither do I desire or intend to create a 
>> controversy
>> or argument, understanding that when finances allow I intend to 
>> purchase one
>> of these electronic wonders.  What happened to tuning by ear?  The 
>> entire
>> history of the Lute was tuned by ear, meaning the original 
>> instruments and
>> not the modern revival.  To this date I have never used anything 
>> other than
>> a tuning fork.  Are there any good suggestions and or methods for 
>> doing this
>> properly (by ear)?
>
> Dear Vance,
>
> I have always used a tuning fork for my guitars, and carry an A440 in 
> the
> case. I started using electronic tuners when I was playing hammered
> dulcimer. I would also use a strip of thick felt like piano tuners use 
> and
> thread it through the strings to dampen the harmonics of the other 
> strings.
>
> I used two methods of using the fork. One was to strike the fork on my 
> knee
> and then place the knob against the bone at the base of my ear. This
> allowed the resonant note to vibrate more directly in my ear. This was 
> a
> good method for playing in large, noisy crowds. The other method, was 
> to
> place the knob against one of the string pegs in the bridge, causing 
> the
> note to resonate through the instrument itself. This of course works a 
> bit
> better in smaller, less noisy environments. At least for me. I have
> tinnitus in my right ear, and a high frequency hearing loss that is 
> getting
> worse as I get older. And the tinnitus is starting to occur in my left 
> ear,
> though the hearing loss is less in that one than it is in the right. 
> I've
> been looking at fancy digital hearing aids since my hearing loss is
> frequency specific and volume specific analog types won't do the 
> trick, but
> they're horribly expensive and my company's insurance (Blue Cross) 
> won't
> touch a penny of the cost, so it's all out of pocket for me.
>
> Bottom line is, more stings on the lute, vs. guitar and my hearing 
> getting
> worse I must resort to an electronic tuner when playing out with the
> consort. At home I tune by ear (unless I've just put on a new set of
> strings) against my piano as there's no good place to place the tuning 
> fork
> on a lute.
>
> Regards,
> Craig
>
>
>

Converting a lute into a theorbo

[Miles Dempster]

Dear lutenetters,

Here is a reply from a series of questions which I (privately) put to  
Arto about converting a lute into a theorbo.
Since it is on a subject which should be of general interest, we have  
decided to open it to you all.
I will be most interested in any contributions that you may have...
:-)


Miles Dempster

 


Dear Miles,

on Sunday 11 January 2004 20:51, you wrote:

> I am writing to you since you have lots of practical experience with
> theorbos. PS, I enjoy your postings to the lute group!

Thanks! :-)

> Now to the main issue: I have an old  7 course bass lute (large body)
> which was built to be tuned in C (string length of 80 cm approx). It
> has been out of commission for a long time, and now I would like to
> resurrect it. It occurs to me that this is my chance to have something
> closer to a " real" theorbo.

Actually it is thought that the first "chitarroni" (singular  
"chitarrone",
early name fotr theorbo) were big bass lutes tuned high and with 2 top
courses down an octave! So in the beginning you could try the a tuning
with your big instrument: the lowest (7th) would be g, and the top two
should be in e and a, lower than the highest 3rd course. That would
be very authentic theorbo of the Medici wedding in 1589, where "the
baroque was invented"... I have myself thought that this kind of  
instrument
would be very interesting to try.

> 1. What is the minimum string length over the fingerboard? Is is really
> necessary to go to 80cm and above? Is it possible or feasible to have a
> shorter length? I suppose that there is a tradeoff between clarity and
> volume and playability.

My older theorbo (the "French" theorbo by Barber) has string lengths
76/140, and also it works well in a (a'=415Hz). I have also stringed and
tuned it also to the "high French solo theorbo" in d. And it works also
in that role!

So there is lots of room for different lengths from >70cm <100cm.
I think nowadays about 80cm is most popular. The volume, sound and
also playability depends also on many other factors...

> 2. String length for the diapasons?

My shorter theorbo has only 140cm, larger about 160cm. Both sound nice.
I think over 160cm starts to cause troubles in trasportation... ;-)

> 2. Single or double stringing?

I tried doubles in my new big theorbo. I could not make them sound well.
And when I talked with lutenist Lynda Sayce about the double strings in
(big) theorboes, she told that also she had problems with them.

> 3. How many courses 13 or 14

14! Otherwise you would miss the low G!  :-)

> 4. Should it be tuned in A, or might there be advantages to tuning it
> in G?

I strongly prefer A! Much more often used (baroque) keys are nice to  
play.

> 5. What is the best stringing material? I use gut on my lutes fo
> courses 1-4 but don't really have any experience with gut for the lower
> courses.

Nowadays I use nylgut, but I have tried a theorbo with gut basses. They
sound and feel VERY nice! And many players use them. I do not use them,
because normally when you play continuo, there are (many) other players
involved, and I like to stay in tune, and not let them wait for me  
tuning
between every other movement or piece... ;-)

> I hope that you don't mind me asking you these questions. Let me know
> if you think it more appropriate that I put these questions to the lute
> group. Actually, I am starting by avoiding creating another thread
> unnecessarily for these practical questions.

It was nice to try to answer those questions! But I think there are many
different opinions and experiences on these things, and it could be
interesting to talk about this also in the List! If you wish, you may  
also
publish our private conversation (this mail) in the List.  So I need not
re-write my answers...

Best regards,

Arto

Re: Double 1st (HIP message included)

[Miles Dempster]

Deam Monica,

If you have a very long string length (say 80 cm for a theorbo, 
compared to a small tenor lute i.e. 60 cm approx) then you have to have 
a thinner and/or tauter string to get the same note. It's the string 
length (given the physical limitations of string material) which makes 
it virtually impossible to achieve the same pitch, hence the 
substitiution of a string which is an octave lower.

PS. I'm fairly sure of this, However if it is not correct, I am 
counting to knowledgeable members of this list to put things straight.

Best


Miles Dempster

On Saturday, January 10, 2004, at 09:42  AM, Monica Hall wrote:

> Now, I'm confused!  If what you say is so, and I am sure it is, why 
> would
> anyone want to put thick strings on the 1st and 2nd course of their 
> lute and
> tune them an octave lower?  I was under the impression that this was
> something to do with the string length...
>
> Monica
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: Stewart McCoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Lute Net <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 11:14 AM
> Subject: Double 1st (HIP message included)
>
>
>> Dear Jon,
>>
>> Yes, I think you still haven't grasped the fundamental point about
>> the tuning of theorbos, and it is causing you no end of confusion.
>> Forget the long neck. The long neck is a complete red herring. A
>> theorbo is simply a lute with the first course (or first two
>> courses) tuned an octave lower. That's all it is. Nothing else
>> matters apart from the tuning.
>>
>> If you have a renaissance lute in G, with its first course tuned to
>> the G above middle C, you have a lute.
>>
>> If you take off the first course, replace it with a thicker string,
>> and tune it down an octave to the G below middle C, you have a
>> theorbo. Same instrument, but different tuning.
>>
>> Where I think you are getting confused, is that you are imagining
>> adding a string to the lute, which is an octave higher than the G
>> above middle C, instead of an octave lower.
>>
>> It is true that theorbos generally had giraffe necks with an extra
>> pegbox stuck on the end, and it is that feature which results in
>> phrases like "liuto attiorbato" (theorboed lute). People associated
>> the word "theorbo" with long necks and extra pegboxes. I think
>> you're doing the same, but it's causing you no end of confusion.
>> It's the re-entrant tuning which defines the theorbo, not the long
>> neck.
>>
>> Just for the record, if you have a lute with a long neck and extra
>> pegbox, and it keeps its lute tuning (G above middle C), you have an
>> archlute.
>>
>> If you have the same lute with a long neck, and you re-tune the
>> first course (to G below middle C), you have a theorbo.
>>
>> I hope that helps. If you still have a copy of my message "Double
>> 1st (HIP message included)" on 7th January, do have another look at
>> it, and see if you understand it differently now.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Stewart.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Jon Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "Stewart McCoy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Cc: "Lute Net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 7:15 AM
>> Subject: Re: Double 1st (HIP message included)
>>
>>
>>> Gentlemen, I am confused.
>>>
>>> And I'm not embarrassed by my confusion, the number of instruments
>> with
>>> different names in the registry of lutes is a bit daunting. I am
>> aware that
>>> guitars, violins and cellos - and all sorts of other similar
>> instruments are
>>> categorized as lutes, and made by Luthiers. But within the close
>> family
>>> there are the citterns, the mandolas and the modern mandolin -
>> although the
>>> latter is quite different when played in the Appalachians.
>>>
>>> So what is a Theorbo, I know it is a lute with extra bass strings
>> that are
>>> longer than than the base length of the instrument (perhaps on a
>> swan neck -
>>> see, I do learn some things here ). Could there be a small
>> Theorbo,
>>> perhaps we could call it a "tenor Theorbo" with a shorter base
>> length such
>>> that one could "octave" the first and second courses and yet be
>> within the
>>> breaking pitch? Or does that instrument have a different name?
>>>
>>> I don't present argument

Re: 14 course German theorbo?

[Miles Dempster]

Dear Michael,


Zamboni' s sonatas very occasionally use a 14th course.

Regards


Miles Dempster


On Sunday, January 4, 2004, at 09:29  PM, Michael Stitt wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> Am I right to assume that Bach's music is the only music to require 
> that low Gg - fourteeth course?
>
> The ambiguity and terminology of description for this lute has always 
> been a bit of problem for me. When asked what instrument I play and 
> Courses versus `number of strings', it becomes a mouthful.  I am 
> asked:  `What instrument do you play?'  I play a 14 course German 
> theorbo, is usually my reply.  But then explaining that each course 
> has two `doubled-up' strings but the first two are single, making a 
> sum total of twenty-six NOT twenty-eight strings...  Then there is 
> `fourteen course??!' - I thought the Baroque lute has thirteen 
> courses? My response is: `Yes, a Gg tp play Bach's BWV 995, 1997, & 
> 1000'  Almost finally, but is it really a theorbo or a Baroque lute?  
> `Yes it is a theorbo because it has the extra bass pegbox'.  Why the 
> German bit? `It is based on a lute constructed by JCHoffmann who was 
> German...'.  End of breath...
>
>
> I bet a guitarist does not get this, six strings will do!  hehe.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael Stitt
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
> --
>

Re: Staff Notation/Tablature

[Miles Dempster]

Yes Tom.

But why do guitarists have to read from a single staff (transposed an 
octave)? I find that it really obscures the voice leading?

Miles Dempster


On Tuesday, December 9, 2003, at 06:27  AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

> Dear Howard and Vance,
>
> I was very interested to read your comments regarding the relative 
> virtues of
> staff notation and tablature. Being a beginner, I find tablature means 
> I have
> little or no idea which notes I am playing, whether I am supposed to 
> play a
> fifth, an octave or indeed what interval is intended. Even the key is 
> often a
> mystery (I do not have absolute pitch) What looks like a 'third' in 
> staff
> notation can turn out to be anything between a second and a seventh. 
> The letter 'd'
> in the first chord or two of Greensleeves, I discovered, represents 
> about
> three entirely different notes. Of course my musical origins are in 
> staff
> notation, and I am so used to hearing what I read before I even try to 
> play it, that
> I find it very difficult to adapt to the new notation. I have managed, 
> am
> beginning to recognise what is an octave, a scale, and the like, but 
> find
> sight-reading very difficult. In staff notation one knows from the 
> context what comes
> (or could come) next. To find a b-flat in a-major (to take the first 
> example
> that occurs to me) would be highly significant, and not at all what 
> one would
> expect. In tablature none of this seems possible, i.e. I have to read 
> letter
> for letter (I imagine like some poor beginner in music, struggling to 
> read any
> form of notation), rather than in what I would consider a 'total way'. 
> Why,
> then, would it be so wrong to use normal staff notation? One would 
> then be in the
> same position as the guitarist (and lute and guitar are not exactly 
> light
> years apart), able to read and above all hear what was going on at a 
> glance. To
> this beginner at least, that seems a definite advantage. Cheers
>
> Tom Beck
>
>

Re: State of Lutenet (was Size of the lute world)

[Miles Dempster]

Matanya,

Please address this issue privately with RT.

Thanks


On Sunday, December 7, 2003, at 03:57  PM, Matanya Ophee wrote:

> At 03:33 PM 12/7/2003 -0500, Roman Turovsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
>
>> Then MO proceeded to insult Sephardim, and I took an exception to that
>
>
> Interesting perception. Me insulting Sephardim. My brother in law is a
> Sephardi, my son in law is a Sephardi and my four grand children are
> Sephardi. So what it was I said about Sephardim that was insulting? do
> refresh my memory.
>
>>
>
> Matanya Ophee
> Editions Orphe'e, Inc.,
> 1240 Clubview Blvd. N.
> Columbus, OH 43235-1226
> Phone: 614-846-9517
> Fax: 614-846-9794
> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.orphee.com
>
>
>

Re: Size of the lute world

[Miles Dempster]

Tim,

Your observations about the lunar cyclical nature of our lunatic side, 
when it comes to the flame wars, are truly inspired.

Another successful method of handling differences is to grant 
righteousness to a protagonist on the basis of the day of the month 
i.e. whether it is odd or even. For couples, for example, one is 
classified as an even person and the other odd. So, if there is a spat 
on Dec. 7th, the odd person is right whatever the arguments. But if the 
fight is on the next day (Dec. 8th) the other person is right no matter 
what. Remarkable how it effectively defuses things. Maybe something 
like this could be applied to this list.

These periodic flame episodes, as we all observe, have nothing to do 
with the lute. They have to do with our tiresome attribute of "self 
importance".  In this respect our behaviour is more like that of 
leeches than simians, rhinos, junk yard dogs etc. Those of us who are 
pathologically needy of self importance will jump on to any exposed 
vein of somebody else's self importance and suck it out mercilessly in 
an attempt to boost our own. Moral: When your self importance is 
affronted, just let it go. Otherwise you may get sucked in (and sucked 
out too)!

When a flame war starts, laughter is the best medicine. A bit of speed 
reading, and a quick finger on the delete button deals with  it quite 
rapidly. Eventually the war subsides (for a time at least, 
hopefully!)


Miles Dempster

> Vance,
> I've been on the lute list serve for only a few months, and have been
> surprised by the vituperative nature of some of the messages that have
> been posted.  I've been on the verge of taking myself off the list
> several times, because I find much of the heated discussion pointless
> and a waste of bandwidth.
>
> I have noticed that there is an ebb and flow to the flame wars that
> coincides with the full moon.  We are just reaching a full moon right
> now and are also cresting on another flame war.  If you watch the
> postings over the next month, I think you will find that in 21-28 days
> we are in the middle of another spate of heated emails.  About a year
> ago the local newspaper did a study of crime statistics and interviewed
> police, and came to the conclusion that although the actual number of
> crimes rose only slightly during the full moon, the nature of the
> crimes changed, with the crimes being of a much more aggravated nature.
>   The worst period was in the week before the actual full moon.  During
> that week people tend to react more strongly to perceived offenses than
> they might otherwise.  Perhaps some of those writing heated emails
> should check the moon phase, think twice, take a deep breath, let it
> out slowly, and delete their message.
>
> There are some truly awful things going on in the world today that
> merit heated discussions.  The lute is not one of them.
>
> Tim Motz
>
> On Saturday, December 6, 2003, at 11:27  PM, Vance Wood wrote:
>
>> Trouble is-a lot of them drop out or go underground because the
>> group
>> that should be supporting them and encouraging them is by  far and
>> away as
>> friendly as a pack of junk yard dogs.  As a whole I have never been
>> exposed
>> to a group, boasting interest passionately in a particular endeavor,
>> that is
>> more driven by ego, pride, condescension, duplicity and 
>> judgementalism.
>> Before you get mad at me read through the posts that have flooded 
>> email
>> servers world wide over the last week or so and ask yourself:  If you
>> were
>> new to the Lute would you feel safe and confident in posting a
>> question to
>> this bunch of brigands?
>>
>> There are some fine people in this group that posses a wealth of
>> knowledge
>> but in asking a question you have to first consider what side of the
>> fence
>> you might fall on to and who is going to consider you one of theirs
>> and one
>> of his and one of yours.  This is absurd and self destructive.  I just
>> wish
>> every one would temper their opinions with a little good sense
>> realizing
>> that you or I don't like everyone and everyone does not like you or I.
>> That's the truth of it BUT!!! we all love the Lute.
>>
>> Vance Wood.
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "Daniel Shoskes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2003 5:02 PM
>> Subject: Re: Size of the lute world
>>
>>
>>>> As I was deleting another repetitive pain in the ass flame post in
>>>> the
>> ongoing
>>>> battle between the
>>>&g

Re: ivory in lutes

[Miles Dempster]

T. Satoh had an ivory-backed baroque lute made by an Ottawa maker.

Miles Dempster

On Monday, November 24, 2003, at 02:31  AM, Ed Durbrow wrote:

> At 9:01 AM + 03/11/23, Sandi Harris & Stephen Barber wrote:
>> The
>> rosewood was an attempt to get near to the sound that ivory produces,
>> using a hard material, which is of course always very 
>> beautifully-veined
>> and figured, as well as sounding well
>
> I was just talking with a bagpipe player about ivory and it set me to
> thinking. Has anyone made any modern reproductions of lutes with
> ivory backs? I can't remember the context but I remember reading
> somewhere about ivory backed theorbos being very loud.
>
> They cull elephants in South Africa and there is an abundance of
> mammoth ivory, so there is legal ivory about. I suppose enough ivory
> for a lute back would not be cheap no matter what the source. I was
> wondering about the brittleness also. Lute ribs have quite a bend to
> them. I wonder if mammoth ivory would be too brittle.
> -- 
> Ed Durbrow
> Saitama, Japan
> http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
>
>

Re: joh.isaacs

[Miles Dempster]

Hello Steffen,

I believe that John Isaacs was building lutes with Ian Harwood.

Miles Dempster


On Monday, October 27, 2003, at 03:34  AM, steffen gliese wrote:

> dear list
>
> I inherited a lute.
> On the note is this inscription:
> "Joh.Isaacs Eliencis fecit
> No 146 Anno:1977"
>
> Could someone give me information
> on this builder?
>
> Best wishes
> Steffen Gliese
> -- 
>
>
>

Re: Right Hand Questions

[Miles Dempster]

Vance,

In my experience the best sound is not only when my finger tips have 
been soaked, as you describe, but when they are smooth as well.

It seems that the fingers develop an outer surface which is slightly 
rough and calloused. I wash my hands in warm water and "sandpaper" my 
fingertips under the running water with a bit of carborundum paper, 400 
grade is good. This removes the rough surface and makes a great 
difference to the tone.

Does that make sense?

Miles Dempster



> Stewart:
>
> I understand what you are saying, but the longer this thread continues 
> more
> I realize that few understand what I am saying.  When I get the best 
> sound
> out of the Lute is after I have soaked my self in our Jacuzzi 
> (something we
> installed because of a back injury) and my hands have become amply 
> pruned.
> The tips of my fingers are not slick or oily, they are soft and slip
> resistant like felt soled shoes on a mossy surface. It is my 
> understanding
> of what is going on is that the fingers are not slipping across the 
> strings
> but are actually hanging on to them for a mili second. Both courses 
> are then
> sounding almost as one and because the strings are vibrating together 
> the
> over tones are more clear and resonant. I don't know if I am making 
> myself
> understood.  I hope someone will try this and figure out what is going 
> on.
>
> Vance Wood.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Stewart McCoy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Lute Net" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, October 26, 2003 1:04 PM
> Subject: Re: Right Hand Questions
>
>
>> Dear Charles,
>>
>> I have often seen Christopher Wilson run his fingers down the side
>> of
>> his nose in between pieces. I found it strange, until someone
>> explained to me why he did it.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Stewart McCoy.
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Charles Browne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: "Vance Wood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "lute list"
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Serge-André Comeau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Sent: Saturday, October 25, 2003 7:51 PM
>> Subject: RE: Right Hand Questions
>>
>>
>> two other tips that I have heard from a guitarist for the right hand
>> finger -tips during a performance was to run the fingers down the
>> side of
>> the nose in between pieces. This transfers some of the sebum,
>> secretions
>> from the sebaceous glands, onto the finger-tips. Sebum is latin for
>> 'grease'and will help smooth the tips,especially if you have an
>> 'oily' skin.
>> An alternative to this , for a guitarist, was to place a small blob
>> of
>> 'vaseline' on the upper bout of the guitar for occasional
>> application during
>> performance.
>> regards
>> Charles Browne
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: URL of that guy who makes the kits?

[Miles Dempster]

Colin Everetts email is:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Yes. He makes all sorts of travellers lutes and variants which do the 
job very successfully.

Miles Dempster


On Friday, September 26, 2003, at 06:07  PM, Leonard Williams wrote:

> Wasn't Colin Everett from Canada (sorry, I no longer have the e-mail
> address) making some sort of "travellers' lutes": flat backed, easy to 
> pack,
> but more lutish than what is described by this kit.
>
> Leonard Williams
>[]
>   (_)
> ~
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Ed Durbrow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Sir David Vavreck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "lute list"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 10:33 AM
> Subject: Re: URL of that guy who makes the kits?
>
>
>>> Ed -
>>>
>>> http://www.musikit.com/
>>>
>>> Yes, it's a flatback.  I do think I'ii have to get one
>>> or two of his other kits, though.
>>
>> I was thinking that for $350, it might be nice to have a flatback
>> lute as a kind of knockabout that I wouldn't mind taking everywhere.
>> I might even get more practicing done. However looking at the
>> picture, I don't know if it is doable. It just wouldn't feel like a
>> lute with a bridge with a saddle in it and metal frets, but if I
>> could get something with the same scale and spacing as my regular Ren
>> lute but flatback and pretty durable, it would be cool. There was
>> someone who made backpacking lutes if my memory serves me. Maybe
>> someone remembers who it ws and has an URL?
>>
>> cheers,
>> --
>> Ed Durbrow
>> Saitama, Japan
>> http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/
>>
>>
>
>

--