[LUTE] Ringfinger
Dear all, first of all I'd like to express my sincerest gratitude towards Wayne for creating this great forum! Unfortunately I became only a member a few years ago, but still I enjoyed much of the discussions here! I hope, that the list will continue also after Wayne's retirement! The actual reason for writing is this time about the use of the ringfinger of the right hand in 16th/early 17th century lute music. What do we know about it? When did lute players start to use it? It would be great to collect some sources, with your generous help! Also ideas for modern literature is appreciated! Have a nice sunday and enjoy lute playing Yuval To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Bartolotti music for theorbo
Maybe it's worth to take a look on some of the literature? There is: Boetticher: RISM B VII, p. 351-352 (rather useless, but he gives a bunch of literature which I don't know) Meyer (ed.): Sources Manuscrites en Tablature III/1, S. 121-125 (he doesn't give any information on the other theorbo pieces, but I apparently in the lute part of the mansucript there's a piece by "Angelin de Rome" which Meyer supposed to identify as Bartolotti as well. And also there you'll find a lot of literature.) And there's a new edition by Massimo Moscardo: „A. M. Bartolotti, Pièces pour théorbe“, Paris (SFL) 1995, which could be worth to check! Please keep us informed, in fact I'm very curious what you're going to find on this subject :-) Yuval Am 04.06.2020 17:45 schrieb Monica Hall: Thanks Martyn That's very helpful. Regards Monica On 04 June 2020 at 14:35 Martyn Hodgson wrote: Dear Monica, No - I don't know if there are any grounds for attributing the other tiorba pieces in this Ms to Bartolotti other than, of course, being adjacent in the same Ms. Incidentally the attribution of the Allemande (Allemanda di Angelo Michiele) is on f.89r. not 92r. The following Corrente with a variatione on 88r to 87v (reversed folios) seems stylistically very close to the Allemanda, as does the concluding Sarabanda with its variatione, so I'd be happy to accept these as part of a suite by the same composer AM. The fact that the earlier Ms pieces for tiorba (ie from 92 to 89) do not have the attribution to AM might suggest they're not by him, but regards, Martyn On Thursday, 4 June 2020, 09:56:59 BST, Monica Hall wrote: Ms. 17706 in the Austrian National Library in Vienna includes 10 pieces for theorbo usually attributed to Bartolotti. The Allemanda on f.92r is attributed to Angelo Michiele. Does anyone know on what grounds the other nine pieces are attributed to Bartolotti? Thanks Monica -- To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: About vocal intabulations
oh, that's great!!! Thank you very much for the work you did! Am 29.04.2020 14:24 schrieb Martin Shepherd: Yes, there are several chords which require using a finger (any finger) to cover two or more courses, and Waissel even gives us fingerings which involve using the second finger to hold to top two courses, in a context where we would use a barré. See my blog: https://luteshop.co.uk/all-fingers-and-thumbs/ Martin On 28/04/2020 23:15, Guilherme Barroso wrote: Yes, indeed. For me, it makes more and more sense to view these intabulations as a way to show the whole vocal piece and not something to be performed exactly as written. About the Barrés with any other finger then the first. Has anyone seen a historical source discuss this? I don't recall seeing one. Em ter., 28 de abr. de 2020 Ã s 23:04, <[1]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de> escreveu: This is really quite an extreme example! But maybe with a different technique it would be possible e.g. to play the first chord? Sometimes, I have the impression that they used also Barrés with the second or third finger, which would (theoretically) make it possible to play the first chord. Just today I found an similar chord in a piece by Hurel, which would need a barré with the second or fourth finger. I'll hopefully get my new renaissance lute this or next week (7courses, 85cm), I'm very curious to try it! :-) and then still we have to consider a world without 1. printed full scores and 2. recordings. So, in order to study a piece of music, you would have to perform - or read it - just by yourself. Maybe this was really kind of "full score" for them - you can use it to study the music and counterpoint, and if you actually want to perfor it you still can decide to omit some notes. Am 28.04.2020 21:25 schrieb Guilherme Barroso: > Dear Yuval, > > Thanks a lot for your answer. > > I have a 7c course 60cm lute and it does not get much easier at some > places. Of course with your lute, even worse. > > But there are some parts that even with a small lute, it is just not > possible. > > I attach in this email an example from Barbetta's publication from > 1582. In the marked passage, already the first chord is not possible > to play (this chord appears often in this publication and also in > Terzi's books), the next two bars are not better. even if you find a > way to do it by some kind of arpeggio, how make it sound musical? > > Em ter., 28 de abr. de 2020 Ã s 20:50, <[2]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de> > escreveu: > >> Dear Guilherme, >> >> it's interesting what Philippe writes about Il Fronimo, it would be >> nice >> to talk with him about all this stuff. I met him some weeks ago, >> and >> he's the only guy I know who isn't lutenist at all and can read all >> kind >> of tablature fluently - quite crazy! >> To respond to your question I can only offer a view on my personal >> experience as well as some thoughts about it: From my practical >> experience I had to ask myself exactly these questions when Martina >> and >> me were recording our CD with diminutions. She played them on >> traverso - >> so I could just play the madrigals without the canto, which worked >> quite >> well - but also with violone, and for this I had to play all the >> voices. >> Since at this time I had only a fairly big lute (10 courses, 67cm), >> I >> decided to step away from perfectly playing all voicing with a >> perfect >> voiceleading, and instead making an arrangement which kept the >> madrigals >> recognizable, but at the same time quitting some tones of the inner >> >> voices and making the intabulations/arrangements more idiomatic for >> the >> lute, because above all I though it was more important to get a >> good >> phrasing and to make good music instead of hurting my hand. If >> you're >> interested in the choices I made, you can find some of the pieces >> we >> recorded on youtube. >> Regarding the amount of instructions about making owns >> intabulations, >> Philippe's argument seems not at all unlikely for me. But at the >> same >> time I'm asking myself about the differences in taste then and now >> (maybe for them it was most important to render the madrigal >> exactly? At >> the end, they lived in a sphere where only polyphonic music >> existed, so >> maybe they would have heard the mistakes
[LUTE] Re: About vocal intabulations
This is really quite an extreme example! But maybe with a different technique it would be possible e.g. to play the first chord? Sometimes, I have the impression that they used also Barrés with the second or third finger, which would (theoretically) make it possible to play the first chord. Just today I found an similar chord in a piece by Hurel, which would need a barré with the second or fourth finger. I'll hopefully get my new renaissance lute this or next week (7courses, 85cm), I'm very curious to try it! :-) and then still we have to consider a world without 1. printed full scores and 2. recordings. So, in order to study a piece of music, you would have to perform - or read it - just by yourself. Maybe this was really kind of "full score" for them - you can use it to study the music and counterpoint, and if you actually want to perfor it you still can decide to omit some notes. Am 28.04.2020 21:25 schrieb Guilherme Barroso: Dear Yuval, Thanks a lot for your answer. I have a 7c course 60cm lute and it does not get much easier at some places. Of course with your lute, even worse. But there are some parts that even with a small lute, it is just not possible. I attach in this email an example from Barbetta's publication from 1582. In the marked passage, already the first chord is not possible to play (this chord appears often in this publication and also in Terzi's books), the next two bars are not better. even if you find a way to do it by some kind of arpeggio, how make it sound musical? Em ter., 28 de abr. de 2020 às 20:50, escreveu: Dear Guilherme, it's interesting what Philippe writes about Il Fronimo, it would be nice to talk with him about all this stuff. I met him some weeks ago, and he's the only guy I know who isn't lutenist at all and can read all kind of tablature fluently - quite crazy! To respond to your question I can only offer a view on my personal experience as well as some thoughts about it: From my practical experience I had to ask myself exactly these questions when Martina and me were recording our CD with diminutions. She played them on traverso - so I could just play the madrigals without the canto, which worked quite well - but also with violone, and for this I had to play all the voices. Since at this time I had only a fairly big lute (10 courses, 67cm), I decided to step away from perfectly playing all voicing with a perfect voiceleading, and instead making an arrangement which kept the madrigals recognizable, but at the same time quitting some tones of the inner voices and making the intabulations/arrangements more idiomatic for the lute, because above all I though it was more important to get a good phrasing and to make good music instead of hurting my hand. If you're interested in the choices I made, you can find some of the pieces we recorded on youtube. Regarding the amount of instructions about making owns intabulations, Philippe's argument seems not at all unlikely for me. But at the same time I'm asking myself about the differences in taste then and now (maybe for them it was most important to render the madrigal exactly? At the end, they lived in a sphere where only polyphonic music existed, so maybe they would have heard the mistakes made by making the intabulations more suitable for the lute?), and also about which role the size of the lute plays. Did you try to play the "unplayable" parts on a smaller lute? You could just use an capo in your second or third fret, just to try how it feels with a small instrument. All the best, Yuval Am 28.04.2020 15:12 schrieb Guilherme Barroso: Dear Lute collective, For some time i've been thinking about some aspects about the intabulation of vocal pieces and i would like to know your ideas. When we look to the gigantic repertoire of vocal intabulations to the lute we encounter several pieces that are incredibly difficult to play. Intabulations done by Molinaro, Terzi, Barbetta, for example, some times present passages that are not only very demanding technically but also with impossible chord positions. Canguilhem, in his book about Galilei's Fronimo treatise, says that the main goal of Galilei's intabulations was to study the counterpoint and composition, not to be played. He even compares Galilei's intabulation of Vestiva i Colli for solo lute (where the madrigal is complete with all the voices) and another version for lute and bass solo (where the lute part is extremely simplified with supression of voices). The lute and voice version for sure was intended to be performed while the other might be intended to be studied. The act of intabulating would be the same as making a score for study purposes. There are a lot of intabulations in the repertoire that are more concerned in maintaining all the voices of the original work then making some concessions to adapt it better to the instrument. Of course, we are dealing with a huge repertoire from several composers and several
[LUTE] Re: About vocal intabulations
Dear Guilherme, it's interesting what Philippe writes about Il Fronimo, it would be nice to talk with him about all this stuff. I met him some weeks ago, and he's the only guy I know who isn't lutenist at all and can read all kind of tablature fluently - quite crazy! To respond to your question I can only offer a view on my personal experience as well as some thoughts about it: From my practical experience I had to ask myself exactly these questions when Martina and me were recording our CD with diminutions. She played them on traverso - so I could just play the madrigals without the canto, which worked quite well - but also with violone, and for this I had to play all the voices. Since at this time I had only a fairly big lute (10 courses, 67cm), I decided to step away from perfectly playing all voicing with a perfect voiceleading, and instead making an arrangement which kept the madrigals recognizable, but at the same time quitting some tones of the inner voices and making the intabulations/arrangements more idiomatic for the lute, because above all I though it was more important to get a good phrasing and to make good music instead of hurting my hand. If you're interested in the choices I made, you can find some of the pieces we recorded on youtube. Regarding the amount of instructions about making owns intabulations, Philippe's argument seems not at all unlikely for me. But at the same time I'm asking myself about the differences in taste then and now (maybe for them it was most important to render the madrigal exactly? At the end, they lived in a sphere where only polyphonic music existed, so maybe they would have heard the mistakes made by making the intabulations more suitable for the lute?), and also about which role the size of the lute plays. Did you try to play the "unplayable" parts on a smaller lute? You could just use an capo in your second or third fret, just to try how it feels with a small instrument. All the best, Yuval Am 28.04.2020 15:12 schrieb Guilherme Barroso: Dear Lute collective, For some time i've been thinking about some aspects about the intabulation of vocal pieces and i would like to know your ideas. When we look to the gigantic repertoire of vocal intabulations to the lute we encounter several pieces that are incredibly difficult to play. Intabulations done by Molinaro, Terzi, Barbetta, for example, some times present passages that are not only very demanding technically but also with impossible chord positions. Canguilhem, in his book about Galilei's Fronimo treatise, says that the main goal of Galilei's intabulations was to study the counterpoint and composition, not to be played. He even compares Galilei's intabulation of Vestiva i Colli for solo lute (where the madrigal is complete with all the voices) and another version for lute and bass solo (where the lute part is extremely simplified with supression of voices). The lute and voice version for sure was intended to be performed while the other might be intended to be studied. The act of intabulating would be the same as making a score for study purposes. There are a lot of intabulations in the repertoire that are more concerned in maintaining all the voices of the original work then making some concessions to adapt it better to the instrument. Of course, we are dealing with a huge repertoire from several composers and several places with specific differences. Le Roy, for example, is more willing to make changes to adapt to the instrument, he says that the "playability and beauty should come first". But even very complex intabulations were clearly meant to be played, like the Terzi intabulations of vocal pieces that present a "Contrapunto" from another lute. Terzi intabulations clearly prefer to maintain the original vocal piece in the intabulation in spite of the diffculty to play. What do you think about this? When you play this repertoire, do you try to keep all notes? Do you omit certain notes to make it more playful? Do you make decision based on the musical flow? I am very curious to hear your ideas. All the best, -- Guilherme Barroso [1]www.guilherme-barroso.com -- References 1. http://www.guilherme-barroso.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Visée Transcriptions
Actually, I really need a transcription, because it's for a non-lutenist who can't read tablature ;-) Yuval Am 07.01.2020 21:39 schrieb Wayne: Hi Yuval - Not a transcription, but legible http://culture.besancon.fr/ark:/48565/a011284026247S0XA9H/1/1 Wayne On Jan 7, 2020, at 2:48 PM, yuval.dvo...@posteo.de wrote: Hello everybody, I'm looking for a transcription of the Allemande in d-minor for theorbo by de Visée, Saizenay-ms. pp. 228–9. Does any of you happen to have one? I'd be very grateful! All the best for 2020 Yuval To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Visée Transcriptions
Hello everybody, I'm looking for a transcription of the Allemande in d-minor for theorbo by de Visée, Saizenay-ms. pp. 228–9. Does any of you happen to have one? I'd be very grateful! All the best for 2020 Yuval To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Tiorbino
Hello all, I was offered a Tiorbino, and I'm wondering what one can do with it (except of playing Bellerofonte-Castaldi): Are there any proofs that it was used for playing solo instead of a big theorbo or for playing continuo? And is there any literature about it apart from the article by Nocerino (2005)? Thanks and regards a usual :-) Yuval To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Lully tablature
Hello everybody, some weeks ago a friend sent me an article by Jean Duron, "L'orchestre de Marc-Antoine Charpentier", published in "Revue de musicologie" 72/1, Paris 1986. There the author writes on p. 40-41: "Le théorbe n’est jamais mentionné dans les sources chez Charpentier et très rarement chez ses contemporains. [..] La présence à l’Opéra est prouvée par quelques notes manuscrites ajoutées — tablature — sur la partie de basse-continue de Proserpine de Lully." The corresponding footnote says: 20. "Voir une partition Ballard conservée à Paris, Bibliothèque nationale : Vm251." I just today had a conversation via e-mail with a guy from the BNF, and he even sent me two pictures of the corresponding Proserpine-Edition (shelfmark Vm2 51), but the annotations in the Proserpine copy Duron mentions has only usual note annotations, nothing in tablature. I'm wondering if Duron made a mistake? Maybe somebody here knows more about the Lully-prints in the BNF and did see some theorbo intabulations in the works of Lully? Thank you very much - if these intabulations really exist it would be great news for us! Yuval To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Picture(s) of a Theorbo originally built by Pietro Raillich
I'm not sure if it was stated earlier, but actually Campion makes his teacher Maltot (who is, apart from the appearance in Campion's treatise, completely unknown) responsible for having invented the theorbo with 8 strings/courses on the fretboard, most possibly resulting from the invention of wound strings some years earlier. See Campion, Addition (available online on gallica.bnf.fr) for more details.Am 18.08.2019 18:00 schrieb Luca Manassero : > > Dear Magnus, > thank you for all these interesting points. Personally, I fully > agree (as you may have noticed from my remark about all these theorbos > showing 8 fretted single courses...) > I think I saw the seven course Koch theorbo in Berlin, being now nearly > ein Berliner, I went more than a couple of times to that small, but > interesting museum. On the other side the Schelle theorbo has been > built in 1728, most probably then tuned in D therefore with the first > course tuned in d. Focused on a completely different repertoire I can > more easily understand it would have seven fretted courses: then you'll > a fretted G and a fretted F, nicely offering you a G# and an F# on the > first fret... > It's also a foldeable theorbo, which makes it a really noticeable > instrument, by the way. > I think I remember another seven course theorbo in Paris at the Cit�� de > la Musique, but I do not have the catalogue with me, so couldn't check > whether and why I remember it. > If the 8 course "vague" started with Franciolini, that's a really nice > hint, David! > All the best, > Luca > Attivato dom, 18 ago 2019 08:59:25 +0200 magnus andersson > ha scritto > > Dear Luca, dear David, dear Howard, > thanks for the infos! > It is indeed interesting- checking the lautenweltadressbuch database, > entering "G" as type and looking for instruments with more than, say, > 80 cm long petit jeu, I could only find the Berlin instrument by Koch > and the Schelle in Nuremberg to have more than 6 courses on the > fingerboard. > To my knowledge: > there is zero extant solo (French/Italian) music written for a theorbo > with more than 6 courses on the fingerboard- ranging from Kapsperger to > Robert de Vis�� � ���e. > All extant theorbo continuo (Italian and French) tutors- with the > noteable exception of Francois Campion- use instruments with 6 courses > on the fingerboard. > The iconographic surviving material of plausible theorboes shows a > dominance of 6 single fretboard stringed instruments in the 17th > century. > On a personal note- as a modern player- I find it much more important > that I have an instrument which works well for the main bulk of the > repertoire, i.e. the 17th century, than having a short F and G to fit > those low chromatic F sharps / G sharps in. > For the 18th century, as it is much more accompanied with addition of a > bowed instrument (at least it, imo, ought to be more than the music of > the early 17th century ), I feel happy to leave those few notes out or > play them at a higher octave. > It is not to be taken lightly, the feeling of playing Monteverdi in big > spaces on a big theorbo with the long strings commencing from the 7th > and downwards. The instrument tends to do most of the work itself then! > Best, > Magnus > On Saturday, August 17, 2019, 10:25:28 PM GMT+2, David Van Edwards > <[1]da...@vanedwards.co.uk> wrote: > Dear Luca, > I have the original string lengths down as 823 > and 1677. Indeed it is odd how many theorbos > there are with 8 courses on the fingerboard, it > seems to have been a fashion started by that > well-known authority Leopoldo Franciolini. > Best wishes, > David > At 20:29 +0200 17/8/19, Luca Manassero wrote: > > Dear David, > > thank you!! > > The two pictures are finally big enough to be understandable. > > I was also curious about the original string lengths, if you > happen to > > know them. > > By the way, if all chitarroni I see in museums had 6 single or > double > > courses (I think I remember one with seven fretted courses at the > Cit�� ��� �� ��� > > del la Musique in Paris, but I'm not sure thou), WHY ON EARTH do I > see > > almost all chitarroni with 8x1 fretted strings?? > > All the best, > > Luca (who really doesn't want to start ANY flame on this > subject...) > > Attivato sab, 17 ago 2019 20:21:21 +0200 David Van Edwards > > <[1][2]da...@vanedwards.co.uk> ha scritto > > > > Dear Luca, > > I forgot to add: is there any other info you'd like? I have a few > > more photos. It is indeed on display in Rome at the Museo > Nazionale > > degli Strumenti Musicali, and the catalogue number is 976. Luisa > > Cervelli: La Galleria
[LUTE] Re: M. H. L.
Great, thank you, Tristan and Joachim! I'll check it this evening! :-) Am 29.07.2019 11:34 schrieb Joachim Lüdtke : > > Kassel, Murhard'sche Bibliothek und Landesibibliothek, 4° Ms. Mus. 108.1, > the lute book of princess Elisabeth of Hassia, comes to mind. Facsimile > edited by Axel Halle. There is a Ph.D. on the manuscript by Claudia Knispel. > > > Best > > Joachim > > > -Original-Nachricht- > Betreff: [LUTE] Re: M. H. L. > Datum: 2019-07-29T11:19:51+0200 > Von: "Yuval Dvoran" > An: "Tristan" , "lute" > > I never met him before, unfortunately. Is there any edition of his works or > an important manuscript with his works?Am 29.07.2019 10:58 schrieb Tristan > von Neumann : > > > > Moritz composed a bunch of pieces, maybe it's an intabulation of another > > one. > > > > You might want to check. > > > > > > On 29.07.19 10:48, Yuval Dvoran wrote: > > > No, unfortunately it's not the Pavan from Variety of Lute Lessons :-(Am > > > 29.07.2019 10:36 schrieb Tristan von Neumann : > > >> Moritz, Hessen's Landgrave? > > >> > > >> > > >> Check if there's concordance with the Pavan in A Varietie of Lute > > >> Lessons. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On 29.07.19 10:32, Yuval Dvoran wrote: > > >>> Good morning, > > >>> > > >>> In a manuscript from around 1600 on which I'm currently doing some > > >>> research there is a Pavana with a note "M. H. L.". Any ideas which > > >>> composer / lutenist this could be? > > >>> The manuscript comes from the region of German/Netherland. > > >>> > > >>> Very curious, if anybody has to offer an solution! :-) > > >>> > > >>> Yuval > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> To get on or off this list see list information at > > >>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > > > >
[LUTE] Re: M. H. L.
I never met him before, unfortunately. Is there any edition of his works or an important manuscript with his works?Am 29.07.2019 10:58 schrieb Tristan von Neumann : > > Moritz composed a bunch of pieces, maybe it's an intabulation of another > one. > > You might want to check. > > > On 29.07.19 10:48, Yuval Dvoran wrote: > > No, unfortunately it's not the Pavan from Variety of Lute Lessons :-(Am > > 29.07.2019 10:36 schrieb Tristan von Neumann : > >> Moritz, Hessen's Landgrave? > >> > >> > >> Check if there's concordance with the Pavan in A Varietie of Lute Lessons. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On 29.07.19 10:32, Yuval Dvoran wrote: > >>> Good morning, > >>> > >>> In a manuscript from around 1600 on which I'm currently doing some > >>> research there is a Pavana with a note "M. H. L.". Any ideas which > >>> composer / lutenist this could be? > >>> The manuscript comes from the region of German/Netherland. > >>> > >>> Very curious, if anybody has to offer an solution! :-) > >>> > >>> Yuval > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> To get on or off this list see list information at > >>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >>> > >> > >
[LUTE] Re: M. H. L.
No, unfortunately it's not the Pavan from Variety of Lute Lessons :-(Am 29.07.2019 10:36 schrieb Tristan von Neumann : > > Moritz, Hessen's Landgrave? > > > Check if there's concordance with the Pavan in A Varietie of Lute Lessons. > > > > > On 29.07.19 10:32, Yuval Dvoran wrote: > > Good morning, > > > > In a manuscript from around 1600 on which I'm currently doing some research > > there is a Pavana with a note "M. H. L.". Any ideas which composer / > > lutenist this could be? > > The manuscript comes from the region of German/Netherland. > > > > Very curious, if anybody has to offer an solution! :-) > > > > Yuval > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > >
[LUTE] Re: M. H. L.
Great! Thank you! I'll check the concordances later, at home! It's the manuscript from the Musikhochschule Köln :-) R 242 I'm just checking the concordances to possibly date the manuscript. Am 29.07.2019 10:36 schrieb Tristan von Neumann : > > Moritz, Hessen's Landgrave? > > > Check if there's concordance with the Pavan in A Varietie of Lute Lessons. > > > > > On 29.07.19 10:32, Yuval Dvoran wrote: > > Good morning, > > > > In a manuscript from around 1600 on which I'm currently doing some research > > there is a Pavana with a note "M. H. L.". Any ideas which composer / > > lutenist this could be? > > The manuscript comes from the region of German/Netherland. > > > > Very curious, if anybody has to offer an solution! :-) > > > > Yuval > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > >
[LUTE] M. H. L.
Good morning, In a manuscript from around 1600 on which I'm currently doing some research there is a Pavana with a note "M. H. L.". Any ideas which composer / lutenist this could be? The manuscript comes from the region of German/Netherland. Very curious, if anybody has to offer an solution! :-) Yuval To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Dowland's first book of songes
That's the best book I know about the song books, unfortunately in German, but you could try to borrow it somewhere, I'm sure he writes also about the authors of the poems: https://www.amazon.de/Text-Musik-John-Dowland-Vokalkompositionen/dp/3888492076/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?keywords=John+Dowland+kelnberger=1558808113=gateway=8-1 If you need information about some specific songs write me a message, and I'll check it in the book. YuvalAm 25.05.2019 20:00 schrieb Alain Veylit : > > What is the current consensus on the authorship of the verses in > Dowland's 1st book of songes (1597)? Any attributions to some one other > than Dowland himself? > > Also, I'll take any information about the actual printing job: is it the > first example of the layout with lute + cantus on one page and the 3 > other parts on the facing page in a clockwise arrangement so the parts > could be read from three sides of a table? > > (I am personally much more impressed by the technological prowess of the > printers than by the poetry of the lyrics, that I find overly whiny ... > Dude, you lived in a completely patriarchal society and you still manage > to blame her for torturing you! ) > > Thanks for your input! > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: De Visee
I was always wondering where this story comes from - thank you Magnus!
By the way, you can buy the book here:
https://www.zvab.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=19245595719=hl%3Don%26tn%3Dauli%2Bapronii%2Bvermehrte%2Breise%26sortby%3D20%26an%3Debert
..and if that's to expensive, you can download it at the site of the SLUB:
https://digital.slub-dresden.de/werkansicht/dlf/1501/1/
Am 08.05.2019 10:04 schrieb magnus andersson :
>
> Dear Monica, you ��re right-
> Francesco seems to have been the scheduled star musician of the
> evening. At
> the banquet, an ensemble consisting of lutes, theorboes, angeliques and
> guitars was
> heard, and Francesco was probably thought of as the icing on the
> cake...
> Here is the original description written by Adam Ebert, in his travel
> diary:
> [1]https://play.google.com/books/reader?id=6PpWcAAJ=de=GBS.PA
> 251
> Best, Magnus
>
> On Wednesday, May 8, 2019, 10:00:09 AM GMT+2, Monica Hall
> wrote:
> Corbetta didn't have to pay his musicians out of his own pocket -
> that's just another myth. The relevant source states that
> Every foreign musician who performed at court in Turin was given 500
> Thlr. and Madame Royale wished to show her generosity by not
> withholding anything [from Signor Corbetta].
> Madame Royale was the mother of Victor Amadeus, the ruler of Savoy at
> the time when Corbetta visited the town to perform.
> We don't actually know whether De Visee played with his nails.
> Monica
> > On 07 May 2019 at 22:20 magnus andersson
> <[2]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Dear collective wisdom,
> > From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has been
> around
> > since at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like Piccinini,
> Corbetta
> > (who we know had
> > to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and still pay
> his
> > fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de Vis�� ��e had
> found
> > a way for them to get it to work without shredding and tearing
> their
> > strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini:
> >
> > "the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly, and
> cleanly; In
> > the manner that all small touches of the string may be schietto,
> like
> > pearl[s]"
> > /Magnus
> >
> > On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 10:45:44 PM GMT+2, John Mardinly
> > <[3]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
> > Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document good
> nail
> > polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago? I
> would
> > love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from telescope
> > lenses
> > and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails. The
> chamois
> > stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not much
> better
> > in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today among
> those
> > who
> > play with nails.
> > A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
> > On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran
> > <[1][1][4]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de>
> > wrote:
> > Hahahaha good point!
> > To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like to
> remember
> > you that also plants exist which were used for thousands of
> years to
> > polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum
> > ("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb jslute
> > <[2][2][5]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
> > Dear All:
> > Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough to
> build
> > lutes and
> > craft overwound strings could have figured out a way to
> file
> > and
> > polish
> > their nails.
> > Jim Stimson
> > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> > Original message
> > From: John Mardinly <[3][3][6]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
> > Date: 5/6/19 6:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
> > To: Roland Hayes <[4][4][7]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
> > Cc: Lute List <[5][5][8]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
> >
[LUTE] Re: De Visee
Just another idea about the nail issue: wouldn't it be possible for them
instead of polishing to apply something on their nails to make them smooth,
like fat, glue (animal glue gets quite hard when its dry) or something else?
There are also some modern lute and guitar players who put a bit of Vaseline on
their nails before starting to play...Am 08.05.2019 09:40 schrieb Monica Hall
:
>
> Corbetta didn't have to pay his musicians out of his own pocket - that's just
> another myth. The relevant source states that
>
> Every foreign musician who performed at court in Turin was given 500 Thlr.
> and Madame Royale wished to show her generosity by not withholding anything
> [from Signor Corbetta].
>
> Madame Royale was the mother of Victor Amadeus, the ruler of Savoy at the
> time when Corbetta visited the town to perform.
>
> We don't actually know whether De Visee played with his nails.
>
> Monica
>
> > On 07 May 2019 at 22:20 magnus andersson wrote:
> >
> >
> > Dear collective wisdom,
> > From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has been around
> > since at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like Piccinini, Corbetta
> > (who we know had
> > to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and still pay his
> > fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de Visée had found
> > a way for them to get it to work without shredding and tearing their
> > strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini:
> >
> > "the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly, and cleanly; In
> > the manner that all small touches of the string may be schietto, like
> > pearl[s]"
> > /Magnus
> >
> > On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 10:45:44 PM GMT+2, John Mardinly
> > wrote:
> > Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document good nail
> > polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago? I would
> > love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from telescope
> > lenses
> > and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails. The chamois
> > stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not much better
> > in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today among those
> > who
> > play with nails.
> > A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
> > On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran
> > <[1][1]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de>
> > wrote:
> > Hahahaha good point!
> > To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like to remember
> > you that also plants exist which were used for thousands of years to
> > polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum
> > ("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb jslute
> > <[2][2]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:
> > Dear All:
> > Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough to build
> > lutes and
> > craft overwound strings could have figured out a way to file
> > and
> > polish
> > their nails.
> > Jim Stimson
> > Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
> > Original message
> > From: John Mardinly <[3][3]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
> > Date: 5/6/19 6:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
> > To: Roland Hayes <[4][4]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
> > Cc: Lute List <[5][5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
> > Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
> > More lacking than glue-on-nails might have been some of the
> > modern
> > files and abrasives used to polish the nails. Badly prepared
> > nails give
> > a terrible result for both sound and playability. My teacher
> > back
> > in
> > 1965 had studied with Segovia, and showed me how Segovia
> > prepared
> > his
> > nails: after some filing, he used a wooden block with a saw-cut
> > slot in
> > it and a piece of chamois wrapped around the wooden block. The
> > nail was
> > then rubbed back and forth on the chamois over the slot, which
> > acted as
> > a track to guide the nail. When I began to study metallurgy and
> > the art
> > of cross-sectioning and polishing metals to view their
> > microstructure,
> > I experienced a revoluti
[LUTE] Re: De Visee
Hahahaha good point!
To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like to remember you that
also plants exist which were used for thousands of years to polish wood (and
maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum ("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am
07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb jslute :
>
> Dear All:
>
> Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough to build lutes and
> craft overwound strings could have figured out a way to file and polish
> their nails.
>
> Jim Stimson
>
> Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
>
> Original message
> From: John Mardinly
> Date: 5/6/19 6:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: Roland Hayes
> Cc: Lute List
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
>
> More lacking than glue-on-nails might have been some of the modern
> files and abrasives used to polish the nails. Badly prepared nails give
> a terrible result for both sound and playability. My teacher back in
> 1965 had studied with Segovia, and showed me how Segovia prepared his
> nails: after some filing, he used a wooden block with a saw-cut slot in
> it and a piece of chamois wrapped around the wooden block. The nail was
> then rubbed back and forth on the chamois over the slot, which acted as
> a track to guide the nail. When I began to study metallurgy and the art
> of cross-sectioning and polishing metals to view their microstructure,
> I experienced a revolution in materials to polish the nails that were
> quickly adopted by many people playing with nails.
> A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
> > On May 6, 2019, at 3:34 PM, Roland Hayes
> wrote:
> >
> > Do we think he played with nails? Lutenists did not as I
> understand,
> > but
> >
> > I have always thought his lute pieces were merely arrangements of
> > guitar/theorbo pieces. For those instruments we can establish the
> use
> > of nails.
> >
> > And if deVisee played guitar with nails, then he most likely played
> > theorbo with nails as well. Yes? Glue on nails had yet to arrive on
> the
> > scene.
> >
> > Get [1]Outlook for Android
> >
> > This message is intended only for the use of the individual or
> entity
> > to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is
> > privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under
> applicable
> > law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient,
> or
> > the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the
> > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
> > distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly
> prohibited.
> > If you have received this communication in error, please notify us
> > immediately by telephone and return the original message to us at
> > i...@legalaidbuffalo.org --
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1.
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghei36=Dw
> IBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1
> ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E���1m2M37zO3KCb5uTRtTMLYbh6c_tcz94RkH1fvvJqg
> =ctn5UU2dPJsBEQxzJcHstOUeERuDkBtXhs4pd0M0t-c=
> >
> >
> > To get on or off this list see list information at
> >
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.ed
> u_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1Gy
> cN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E���1m2M37
> zO3KCb5uTRtTMLYbh6c_tcz94RkH1fvvJqg=9RqBccAKKlP3oVcnl4UNupxF1MvNw_jgZ
> 4VyNvSGyDk=
>
[LUTE] Big Theorbes...
Hi everyone, Which evidence do we have regarding theorboes with 18 or 19 strings / courses? I know about: -Kapsperger's 19 course instruments - Two 18 course instruments by Sellas, one in Paris, the other one in Italy - Praetorius' obviously wrong tuning instruction for an 18 course instrument. Is there something else? Instruments, instructions, music, images, ...? Have a nice Easter weekend! Yuval To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: A new discovery
That's absolutely amazing!!! My sincerest congratulations! Please let me / us know in advance about the date in Bremen, I'd love to come!Am 02.04.2019 17:19 schrieb franco pavan : > > Dear All, > In the last months I had the chance to visit a private archive in > Italy, and I discovered 25 manuscripts for lute, archlute, > chitarrino, cetra and theorbo. It's a very large collection of lute > pieces, one of the most important in private hands in the world. The > repertoire is ca. 1590-1640, with some relevant exceptions. Among the > composers included we can find Lorenzino Tracetti, Cavaliere del > Liuto (Tracetti or Pinti), Kapsperger, Piccinini. > The collection included not only lute music, but also harpsichord, > viola da gamba and vocal music. > On April 5th I will discuss in public for the first time this > discovery, in Pesaro, Italy. > I am working on this archive with a little team, the librarian Brunella > Paolini and the scholar Antonio Becchi. > I will give more information in the next period, and I will have the > chance to speak in Autumn about that in Bremen, Tours and London. > I hope this will be of some interest. > All the best, > Franco > > -- > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Nylon string 2m
I know, but carbon will be too thin for this job... I'd love to use Nylgut, but 0,62 is too thick, and they don't produce it in 0,6 in 1,80m length. Am 01.04.2019 15:39 schrieb Roman Turovsky : > > you can get unlimited lenghts of Seaguar carbonfiber. > RT > > On 4/1/2019 7:20 AM, Yuval Dvoran wrote: > > Hi folks, > > > > Any ideas, where I can get a nylon string of 1,80-2,00m length? I > > already asked Pyramid and Kürschner, both only have short ones. > >Savarez > > I'll contact in some minutes. > > And any experiments with line? > > > > All the best from sunny Germany! > > Yuval > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >
[LUTE] Nylon string 2m
Hi folks, Any ideas, where I can get a nylon string of 1,80-2,00m length? I already asked Pyramid and Kürschner, both only have short ones. Savarez I'll contact in some minutes. And any experiments with line? All the best from sunny Germany! Yuval To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: theorbo music
In Goess there's also one piece, and two more in F-Pn Vm.7 6265: "LE MOYNE (Le moine, Lemoinne, Lemoine, Lemoyne) Allemande, A-ETgoëss Th, 62 Allemande, F-B 279.152, 47 Allemande, F-B 279.152, 284 Allemande, F-B 279.152, 348 Allemande, F-Pn Rés. 1106, 16 Allemande, F-Pn Vm.7 6265, 46 Allemande, F-Pn Vm.7 6265, 56 Allemande grave, F-B 279.152, 357 Courante, F-B 279.152, 48 Courante, F-B 279.152, 326 Courante, F-Pn Rés. 1106, 19 Gigue grave, F-B 279.152, 349 Marche, F-Pn Rés. 1106, 11 Prélude, F-Pn Rés. 1106, 10 Sarabande, F-B 279.152, 49 Sarabande, F-B 279.152, 285 Sarabande, F-Pn Rés. 1106, 21" It's from: https://w1.bnu.fr/smt/index.htm (Sources manuscrit en tabulature) Enjoy! Yuval Am 26.03.2019 23:34 schrieb jjnoo...@sbcglobal.net: Hi, folks— I’m trying to track down scores (facsimile or edition) of solo theorbo music by Etienne Le Moine (seems to be some variety in names—Estienne Lemoyne, Estienne Le Moyne, etc.) Appears that he left fewer than 10 pieces and that these all survive in manuscript. I can do the library digging if necessary, but I’d prefer to spend my time playing the music, rather than tracking it down. If someone on the list can point me to a more readily available source (digital or print), I’d be very much obliged. Thanks for help. jeff -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Angelo Michel Bartolomi
No, sorry :-( I just know that it exists, from Meyer (2006): NORTHAMPTON, Northamptonshire Record Office (GB-NH) FH 3431.c [2] f. 150 x 115 mm. Origine française ou anglaise. Vers 1660-1680. Une main. Théorbe à quatorze choeurs (onze choeurs utilisés) (A d g h e a). Notation française. 1 Courante 2 Gigue [t. 1-8] [A. M. Bartolotti] A-ETgoess Ms. Théorbe, f. 45v-46. RISM B VII non signalé François-Pierre GOY. As far as I know the librarys in GB charge quite a lot for digitalisation, and I'm not sure if it's worth it, for one piece + 8 bars, 2 pages all in all ;-) But if you get your hands on it I'd be very interested in it too! Am 24.03.2019 14:46 schrieb Roland Hayes: Thank you. Steur shows it but without a link. Do you know its location or how to see it? Thank you again. r Get [1]Outlook for Android __ From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu on behalf of yuval.dvo...@posteo.de Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2019 9:39:10 AM To: Roland Hayes Cc: Lute List; lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [LUTE] Re: Angelo Michel Bartolomi There are two more pieces for theorbo in GB-NH Fh 3431.c, as far as I know. Am 24.03.2019 14:19 schrieb Roland Hayes: > Aside from Goess theorbo ms and Vienna 17706, does anyone know of more >theorbo pieces by this virtuoso, including any modern editions? > Thanks >in advance. r > >Get [1]Outlook for Android > >This message is intended only for the use of the individual or > entity >to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is >privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable >law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or >the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the >intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, >distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly > prohibited. >If you have received this communication in error, please notify us >immediately by telephone and return the original message to us at >i...@legalaidbuffalo.org -- > > References > >1. [2]https://aka.ms/ghei36 > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone and return the original message to us at i...@legalaidbuffalo.org -- References 1. https://aka.ms/ghei36 2. https://aka.ms/ghei36 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Angelo Michel Bartolomi
There are two more pieces for theorbo in GB-NH Fh 3431.c, as far as I know. Am 24.03.2019 14:19 schrieb Roland Hayes: Aside from Goess theorbo ms and Vienna 17706, does anyone know of more theorbo pieces by this virtuoso, including any modern editions? Thanks in advance. r Get [1]Outlook for Android This message is intended only for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by telephone and return the original message to us at i...@legalaidbuffalo.org -- References 1. https://aka.ms/ghei36 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Heavy theorbo neck
My lute builder, Dieter Schossig, is actually a physicist, and he also told me about this. It's about the energy that gets lost in the neck, instead of reinforcing the sound. Am 23.03.2019 22:29 schrieb John Mardinly: Some guitar makers have also believed that neck stiffness improves the sound. Ramirez 1A guitars have a significant graphite-epoxy inset along the neck to stiffen it, and that is said to be significant in a neck that is only 66.7cm. A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E. On Mar 23, 2019, at 2:22 PM, howard posner <[1]howardpos...@ca.rr.com> wrote: On Mar 23, 2019, at 5:43 AM, Luca Manassero <[2]l...@manassero.net> wrote: I‘m about to ask him to rebuild the long neck of my big Hasenfuss theorbo, as the instrument has a fantastic voice, but Hasenfuss built a very heavy long neck, so it is really painful to homd during concerts. A lighter neck should solve the issue. All the best, Luca Consider that the heavy neck may be part of what makes the fantastic voice. I've been told that a neck that's heavy, and therefore does not vibrate, increases resonance because a vibrating neck has a damping effect on the body of the instrument. I don't recall whether Hendrik told me that, or it was volunteered by someone else, and I can't vouch for its accuracy as a matter of acoustical science. But I can tell you that the heavy neck on my Hasenfuss theorbo was never a problem because I never held the instrument while I played it. I just used a strap, and ran a leather or fake-leather bootlace from the bridge-end of the instrument and sat on it (the lace, NOT the instrument). I could take my hands off the theorbo completely. Indeed, listeners may have preferred it when I did. And it's a lot cheaper than rebuilding the neck. H To get on or off this list see list information at [3]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n 1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=dI7 xnDPu2Bjw9zV3K5G0E9IDY4yelOErGet17R0lSoA=zWiWsrleJ4nToa6SSrmJ7P-6D006 twxiBkUKArhZubU= References 1. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com 2. mailto:l...@manassero.net 3. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=dI7xnDPu2Bjw9zV3K5G0E9IDY4yelOErGet17R0lSoA=zWiWsrleJ4nToa6SSrmJ7P-6D006twxiBkUKArhZubU=
[LUTE] Re: Theorbo in France - books and articles
Dear Andreas, This site I know already, and even some of the entries for Germany are from me ;-) Trotzdem vielen Dank Dir! Yuval Am 08.03.2019 08:55 schrieb Andreas Schlegel: Dear Yuval An important ressource is here: http://www.tiorba.eu/timeline.html The menue at the right side allows to filter after countries etc. Enjoy! Andreas Am 08.03.2019 um 04:23 schrieb yuval.dvo...@posteo.de: Hello everybody, what would you say ist the most important literature concerning the history ofthe theorbo (as an instrument, not concerning music for the theorbo) in France? On my list are until now: Michael Prynne: „James Talbot’s Manuscript, IV: Plucked Strings – the Lute Family“, The Galpin Society Journal 14 (1961), S. 52–68; Robert Spencer: “Chitarrone, Theorbo and Archlute“, in: Early Music Vol. 4, No. 4, 1976, S. 408–422; Ingo Negwer: „Laute und Theorbe in Marin Mersennes Harmonie universelle“, Frankfurt am Main (Deutsche Lautengesellschaft) 2000; Lynda Sayce „The development of Italianate continuo lutes“, Open University 2001. Any other books and articles which shouldn't be missing here? I don't need a complete list, only the most important works about this topic. Thank you very much! :-) Yuval P.S.: I wonder if nothing in French appeared, but I was unable to find something To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Andreas Schlegel Eckstr. 6 CH-5737 Menziken Festnetz +41 (0)62 771 47 07 Mobile +41 (0)78 646 87 63 lute.cor...@sunrise.ch --
[LUTE] Re: Additions / corrections to www.tiorba.eu
Owner of the site is Matthew Jones, you can find him on Facebook, unfortunately I don't have his email-adress. But I wrote to him already several times since November without getting any answer I don't know where he is at the moment. :-(Am 08.03.2019 15:09 schrieb Andreas Schlegel : > > Dear all > > Who knows the impressum of that site? I like to give some additions / > corrections - but there’s no address. > > Thanks for an advice! > > Andreas > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Theorbo in France - books and articles
Hello everybody, what would you say ist the most important literature concerning the history ofthe theorbo (as an instrument, not concerning music for the theorbo) in France? On my list are until now: Michael Prynne: „James Talbot’s Manuscript, IV: Plucked Strings – the Lute Family“, The Galpin Society Journal 14 (1961), S. 52–68; Robert Spencer: “Chitarrone, Theorbo and Archlute“, in: Early Music Vol. 4, No. 4, 1976, S. 408–422; Ingo Negwer: „Laute und Theorbe in Marin Mersennes Harmonie universelle“, Frankfurt am Main (Deutsche Lautengesellschaft) 2000; Lynda Sayce „The development of Italianate continuo lutes“, Open University 2001. Any other books and articles which shouldn't be missing here? I don't need a complete list, only the most important works about this topic. Thank you very much! :-) Yuval P.S.: I wonder if nothing in French appeared, but I was unable to find something To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Thomson, Haydn, Beethoven (was Barbara Allen)
A good source of information is also the complete edition of Haydn's works which appears at Henle, Germany. The Thompson songs have a long introduction with extensive information on the songs. Am 05.02.2019 20:11 schrieb howard posner: On Feb 5, 2019, at 12:38 AM, Alain Veylit wrote: I suspected I was a bit overly paranoid. Not really, given the number of works falsely attributed to Haydn. It seems to me like an easy job for the composer and a lucrative thing for the publisher who is able to put a famous composer's name on the title page That was the plan in a nutshell. And this was all a few years after Haydn had been a rock star in London. The composers were only given the tunes: I suppose that means the melody, when the results include both a violin part and a figured bass. How much work would that be for Haydn or Beethoven? Who knows? Haydn arranged 214 songs for Thomson, which may account for a steep decline in his compositional output after 1802. Beethoven (who started writing arrangements for Thomson in 1810, the year after Haydn died) did about 150, of which Thomson published 125. There’s an extant letter from Beethoven in which he explains that he should be paid more than Haydn was paid because his settings are more elaborate, with violin and cello parts. Thomson evidently agreed. There’s another exchange in which Beethoven demands that Thomson start sending him the lyrics along with the tunes. Thomson responded that he often commissioned new poetry once the arrangements were done, but he did send Beethoven some texts after that. Some of Beethoven’s settings have elements of real composition, so he may spent real time on them. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Goess Manuscript and Campion
Hello everybody, in a previous thread (from 2009) I read that some pieces from the Goess manuscript seem to need a 1RE tuning. In the same thread it was stated that Campion obviously uses only a 1RE tuning for his "Addition". Maybe somebody could tell me which pieces exactly from Goess this refers to and where in Campion it is written that he uses a 1RE tuning? Or some liteature about that? It would be of great help for me! Thank you very much and have a nice week! :-) Yuval To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
