[LUTE] Re: [Le_luth] Dedillo
Well, this has really opened something up for me. I've just been reading Carol McClintock's translation of Galilei's Fronimo, and amongst the many fascinating things he says (of which more anon) is that there's no point having all those extra bass courses on the lute because they sound too weak and in any case you can do everything you want on a 6c lute. That much is fairly widely known. But he goes on to say that if you really want to intabulate pieces which go slightly outside the range you should do it by adding an extra course in the treble, tuned a fourth higher than the original top string, which now becomes the second course (so we now have a high c string). I don't know exactly how he physically managed this, but he talks about adding an extra little bridge so the new top string is a bit shorter than the others. I'm just about go on a trip so don't have the time to explore all this right now, but I'm intrigued that it seems the vihuelistas may actually have done this. Best wishes, Martin On 19/08/2011 06:06, dwinh...@comcast.net wrote: Quite right, Ed, about the 7 course vihuela and how it is misunderstood today. I plead guilty to tuning- and using- my own 7 course Chambure copy as a part-time stealth 7 course lute. What I understand from reading Ward Bermudo is that the 7th course is considered to be a nominal high c string, (for a g vihuela) in order to make the higher voices of motets, masses, etc. playable within reasonable areas of the fingerboard- just like a having a 5 string cello for Bach's 6th cello suite. In practical terms, of course, (the laws of physics being what they are, despite what Republican's would like them to be) a 7 course vihuela of say 59 cm. sl would actually be set up as a small D instrument, whose scale allows the high g string- but it would be nominally a G instrument with a high c string. All I would have to do on mine would be to lower the 4th course from f to e to come up with the correct intervals- then I would be good to go, playing all the voices from the vocal scores. The other tuning in Bermudo is a theoretical proposal of 4ths and 5ths that sounds cool but, like other things, would be thankless wishful thinking; what with the laws of physics being what they are; vis-a-vis the breaking point of gut and the integrity of bridges to soundboard connections. Dedillo? Tried it, don't like it; I'm with Fuenllana on that one. I still await a convincing performance. Dan __ From: Edward Martine...@gamutstrings.com To: Martin Shepherdmar...@luteshop.co.uk, Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 9:30:30 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: [Le_luth] Dedillo Thanks for posting this, Martin! Ralph Maier certainly gives us something to contemplate. Many of us play the vihuela, but very few, if any, play the dedillo stroke. I have dabbled a bit with it, but not made a serious study of it, and Maier makes a great case for making another attempt. He is obviously using bright synthetic strings, and if he used gut, I am certain that the tone emitted from the back side nail would be sweeter; it seems too harsh on synthetics, in my opinion. But, he wrote a great paper, and provides us with incentive to do better. That is one thing that in our modern times, we have almost ignored: dedillo. There is another thing we have ignored, which is the 7-course vihuela. Ward and Bermudo discuss this at length, and they make the case for there having been theordinary vihuela in 6 courses, with our standard renaissance tuning; the other is the 7-course vihuela, in which entirely different tuning systems were employed. Ward provides us with many names of vihuelistas who performed 7-course vihuela, but other than Bermudo's examples, there is no existing music for those tunings. Bermudo states that all the great vihuelistas also played 7-course vihuela. In particular, Bermudo states this instrument was used primarily for doing intabulations. Yes, some modern players in our times do have 7-course vihuelas, but I have thus far found nobody in our times using the 7-course vihuela as an instrument which utilizes it's initial purpose, which is to use various tunings to devise intabulations. All the ones, to my knowledge, use it as having an extra bass course, similar to the lute. This was not the intent of such an instrument. We have come a long way in our understanding of the vihuela, but we have a long journey ahead of us.. ed At 02:50 PM 8/18/2011, Martin Shepherd wrote: I can't resist passing this on - fascinating stuff. M Original Message Subject: [Le_luth] Dedillo Date
[LUTE] Re: [Le_luth] Dedillo
Except that the way the 7 course vihuela players did it was strictly mental- by tuning the 4th course down from f to e, and just thinking of it as G instrument with a high treble course, despite the actual pitch level and range being identical to a 7 course lute with a low D 7th. It was this flexible thinking on the part of vihuelists that fooled eary musicologists into believing that every vihuelist had to own 7 vihuelas to cover every tone in the scale. Of course, one could get the same impression from any number of 16th and 17th century lute songbooks that put the singer's first note reference almost anywhere on the fingerboard (Willeart, the Verdelot madrigals intabutated for voice and lute, for example). But it's interesting that Galilei proposed a short string to actually go higher- how the hell did he propose to fret such a string? Not to mention avoiding the existing frets. (Look forward to you exploring this one.) Another unasked question- how did he feel about his kid Mike fooling around with (gasp!) 10 course lutes? I never knew about the McClintock translation- is that available? I would love a copy. (As well as translations of Capirola and Piccinini) Dan __ From: Martin Shepherd mar...@luteshop.co.uk To: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 12:49:47 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: [Le_luth] Dedillo Well, this has really opened something up for me. I've just been reading Carol McClintock's translation of Galilei's Fronimo, and amongst the many fascinating things he says (of which more anon) is that there's no point having all those extra bass courses on the lute because they sound too weak and in any case you can do everything you want on a 6c lute. That much is fairly widely known. But he goes on to say that if you really want to intabulate pieces which go slightly outside the range you should do it by adding an extra course in the treble, tuned a fourth higher than the original top string, which now becomes the second course (so we now have a high c string). I don't know exactly how he physically managed this, but he talks about adding an extra little bridge so the new top string is a bit shorter than the others. I'm just about go on a trip so don't have the time to explore all this right now, but I'm intrigued that it seems the vihuelistas may actually have done this. Best wishes, Martin On 19/08/2011 06:06, dwinh...@comcast.net wrote: Quite right, Ed, about the 7 course vihuela and how it is misunderstood today. I plead guilty to tuning- and using- my own 7 course Chambure copy as a part-time stealth 7 course lute. What I understand from reading Ward Bermudo is that the 7th course is considered to be a nominal high c string, (for a g vihuela) in order to make the higher voices of motets, masses, etc. playable within reasonable areas of the fingerboard- just like a having a 5 string cello for Bach's 6th cello suite. In practical terms, of course, (the laws of physics being what they are, despite what Republican's would like them to be) a 7 course vihuela of say 59 cm. sl would actually be set up as a small D instrument, whose scale allows the high g string- but it would be nominally a G instrument with a high c string. All I would have to do on mine would be to lower the 4th course from f to e to come up with the correct intervals- then I would be good to go, playing all the voices from the vocal scores. The other tuning in Bermudo is a theoretical proposal of 4ths and 5ths that sounds cool but, like other things, would be thankless wishful thinking; what with the laws of physics being what they are; vis-a-vis the breaking point of gut and the integrity of bridges to soundboard connections. Dedillo? Tried it, don't like it; I'm with Fuenllana on that one. I still await a convincing performance. Dan __ From: Edward Martine...@gamutstrings.com To: Martin Shepherdmar...@luteshop.co.uk, Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 9:30:30 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: [Le_luth] Dedillo Thanks for posting this, Martin! Ralph Maier certainly gives us something to contemplate. Many of us play the vihuela, but very few, if any, play the dedillo stroke. I have dabbled a bit with it, but not made a serious study of it, and Maier makes a great case for making another attempt. He is obviously using bright synthetic strings, and if he used gut, I am
[LUTE] Re: [Le_luth] Dedillo
...the way the 7 course vihuela players did it was strictly mental- by tuning the 4th course down from f to e, and just thinking of it as G instrument with a high treble course... I have personally done this in situations requiring a D bass lute, (lute duets/ensemble, bass singers, playing a bass viol part) -but having only a 7-course tenor G lute available. It's a really fun mental kick when you finally fool yourself into feeling that your 1st course actually is a high 7th course. Dan __ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [Le_luth] Dedillo
The McClintock translation is available from A-R Editions, agents for the publisher, American Institute of Musicology (a private organization, not the AMS). See their website. The price has apparenty not been raised since the book appeared in the 1960s. It's still about $25. Quite a bargain. - Original Message - From: dwinh...@comcast.net To: Martin Shepherd mar...@luteshop.co.uk Cc: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 12:04 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: [Le_luth] Dedillo ...the way the 7 course vihuela players did it was strictly mental- by tuning the 4th course down from f to e, and just thinking of it as G instrument with a high treble course... I have personally done this in situations requiring a D bass lute, (lute duets/ensemble, bass singers, playing a bass viol part) -but having only a 7-course tenor G lute available. It's a really fun mental kick when you finally fool yourself into feeling that your 1st course actually is a high 7th course. Dan __ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [Le_luth] Dedillo
Er - it cost me at least twice that much, from that source. But worth it, I think. There is much in what Galilei says which has been overlooked, for instance the details of his remarks on temperaments and tastini are worth grappling with. Off to Nice tommorrow morning Martin On 19/08/2011 17:26, A. J. Ness wrote: The McClintock translation is available from A-R Editions, agents for the publisher, American Institute of Musicology (a private organization, not the AMS). See their website. The price has apparenty not been raised since the book appeared in the 1960s. It's still about $25. Quite a bargain. - Original Message - From: dwinh...@comcast.net To: Martin Shepherd mar...@luteshop.co.uk Cc: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 12:04 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: [Le_luth] Dedillo ...the way the 7 course vihuela players did it was strictly mental- by tuning the 4th course down from f to e, and just thinking of it as G instrument with a high treble course... I have personally done this in situations requiring a D bass lute, (lute duets/ensemble, bass singers, playing a bass viol part) -but having only a 7-course tenor G lute available. It's a really fun mental kick when you finally fool yourself into feeling that your 1st course actually is a high 7th course. Dan __ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [Le_luth] Dedillo
Dear Martin and all, in 1995 I wrote a small net article on V. Galilei's remarks on tastini, see http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/fronimo.html Best, Arto On Fri, 19 Aug 2011 18:11:33 +0100, Martin Shepherd mar...@luteshop.co.uk wrote: Er - it cost me at least twice that much, from that source. But worth it, I think. There is much in what Galilei says which has been overlooked, for instance the details of his remarks on temperaments and tastini are worth grappling with. Off to Nice tommorrow morning Martin On 19/08/2011 17:26, A. J. Ness wrote: The McClintock translation is available from A-R Editions, agents for the publisher, American Institute of Musicology (a private organization, not the AMS). See their website. The price has apparenty not been raised since the book appeared in the 1960s. It's still about $25. Quite a bargain. - Original Message - From: dwinh...@comcast.net To: Martin Shepherd mar...@luteshop.co.uk Cc: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 12:04 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: [Le_luth] Dedillo ...the way the 7 course vihuela players did it was strictly mental- by tuning the 4th course down from f to e, and just thinking of it as G instrument with a high treble course... I have personally done this in situations requiring a D bass lute, (lute duets/ensemble, bass singers, playing a bass viol part) -but having only a 7-course tenor G lute available. It's a really fun mental kick when you finally fool yourself into feeling that your 1st course actually is a high 7th course. Dan __ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [Le_luth] Dedillo
Dear Arto, Thanks for your 'net article', very interesting. Wouldn't a single 'tastini' be a tastino? ;-) Best Miles On 2011-08-19, at 1:32 PM, wikla wrote: Dear Martin and all, in 1995 I wrote a small net article on V. Galilei's remarks on tastini, see http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/fronimo.html Best, Arto On Fri, 19 Aug 2011 18:11:33 +0100, Martin Shepherd mar...@luteshop.co.uk wrote: Er - it cost me at least twice that much, from that source. But worth it, I think. There is much in what Galilei says which has been overlooked, for instance the details of his remarks on temperaments and tastini are worth grappling with. Off to Nice tommorrow morning Martin On 19/08/2011 17:26, A. J. Ness wrote: The McClintock translation is available from A-R Editions, agents for the publisher, American Institute of Musicology (a private organization, not the AMS). See their website. The price has apparenty not been raised since the book appeared in the 1960s. It's still about $25. Quite a bargain. - Original Message - From: dwinh...@comcast.net To: Martin Shepherd mar...@luteshop.co.uk Cc: Lute List lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 12:04 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: [Le_luth] Dedillo ...the way the 7 course vihuela players did it was strictly mental- by tuning the 4th course down from f to e, and just thinking of it as G instrument with a high treble course... I have personally done this in situations requiring a D bass lute, (lute duets/ensemble, bass singers, playing a bass viol part) -but having only a 7-course tenor G lute available. It's a really fun mental kick when you finally fool yourself into feeling that your 1st course actually is a high 7th course. Dan __ -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [Le_luth] Dedillo
I can't resist passing this on - fascinating stuff.
M
Original Message
Subject: [Le_luth] Dedillo
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 14:08:41 +0200
From: Sauvage Valery [1]sauvag...@orange.fr
Reply-To: [2]le_l...@yahoogroupes.fr
To: [3]le_l...@yahoogroupes.fr
Bonjour,
Un ami m'a fait part de cette page `a propos de technique de main
droite
concernant la vihuela, que certains pourraient trouver interessante...
[4]http://www.ralphmaier.com/index_files/Page318.htm
(en faisant defiler il y a quelques videos de demonstrations)
Bonne rentree `a tous...
Val.
__._,_.___
[5]Repondre `a expediteur | [6]Repondre `a groupe | [7]Repondre en mode
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[14]Desinscription o [15]Conditions d'utilisation
.
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--
References
1. mailto:sauvag...@orange.fr
2. mailto:le_l...@yahoogroupes.fr
3. mailto:le_l...@yahoogroupes.fr
4. http://www.ralphmaier.com/index_files/Page318.htm
5. mailto:sauvag...@orange.fr?subject=Re%A0%3A%20Dedillo
6. mailto:le_l...@yahoogroupes.fr?subject=Re%A0%3A%20Dedillo
7.
http://fr.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyb2Qwajd1BF9TAzk3NDkwNDY4BGdycElkAzE2MTg5MzE0BGdycHNwSWQDMjEyMzgwMTYxNARtc2dJZAMxMzM1MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzMTM2NjkzOTQ-?act=replymessageNum=13352
8.
http://fr.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZTg1MWoyBF9TAzk3NDkwNDY4BGdycElkAzE2MTg5MzE0BGdycHNwSWQDMjEyMzgwMTYxNARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzMTM2NjkzOTQ-
9.
http://fr.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/message/13352;_ylc=X3oDMTM3aGJtZjBqBF9TAzk3NDkwNDY4BGdycElkAzE2MTg5MzE0BGdycHNwSWQDMjEyMzgwMTYxNARtc2dJZAMxMzM1MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzMTM2NjkzOTQEdHBjSWQDMTMzNTI-
10.
http://fr.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth;_ylc=X3oDMTJmM2VoNG03BF9TAzk3NDkwNDY4BGdycElkAzE2MTg5MzE0BGdycHNwSWQDMjEyMzgwMTYxNARzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzMTM2NjkzOTQ-
11.
http://fr.groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlaWZmczVhBF9TAzk3NDkwNDY4BGdycElkAzE2MTg5MzE0BGdycHNwSWQDMjEyMzgwMTYxNARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTMxMzY2OTM5NA--
12.
mailto:le_luth-traditio...@yahoogroupes.fr?subject=Changer%20le%20format%20:%20Traditionnel
13.
mailto:le_luth-dig...@yahoogroupes.fr?subject=Messages%20du%20groupe%20:+R%C3%A9sum%C3%A9
14. mailto:le_luth-desabonnem...@yahoogroupes.fr?subject=D%E9sinscription
15. http://fr.docs.yahoo.com/info/utos.html
To get on or off this list see list information at
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[LUTE] Re: [Le_luth] Dedillo
Thanks for posting this, Martin! Ralph Maier certainly gives us something to contemplate. Many of us play the vihuela, but very few, if any, play the dedillo stroke. I have dabbled a bit with it, but not made a serious study of it, and Maier makes a great case for making another attempt. He is obviously using bright synthetic strings, and if he used gut, I am certain that the tone emitted from the back side nail would be sweeter; it seems too harsh on synthetics, in my opinion. But, he wrote a great paper, and provides us with incentive to do better. That is one thing that in our modern times, we have almost ignored: dedillo. There is another thing we have ignored, which is the 7-course vihuela. Ward and Bermudo discuss this at length, and they make the case for there having been theordinary vihuela in 6 courses, with our standard renaissance tuning; the other is the 7-course vihuela, in which entirely different tuning systems were employed. Ward provides us with many names of vihuelistas who performed 7-course vihuela, but other than Bermudo's examples, there is no existing music for those tunings. Bermudo states that all the great vihuelistas also played 7-course vihuela. In particular, Bermudo states this instrument was used primarily for doing intabulations. Yes, some modern players in our times do have 7-course vihuelas, but I have thus far found nobody in our times using the 7-course vihuela as an instrument which utilizes it's initial purpose, which is to use various tunings to devise intabulations. All the ones, to my knowledge, use it as having an extra bass course, similar to the lute. This was not the intent of such an instrument. We have come a long way in our understanding of the vihuela, but we have a long journey ahead of us.. ed At 02:50 PM 8/18/2011, Martin Shepherd wrote: I can't resist passing this on - fascinating stuff. M Original Message Subject: [Le_luth] Dedillo Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 14:08:41 +0200 From: Sauvage Valery [1]sauvag...@orange.fr Reply-To: [2]le_l...@yahoogroupes.fr To: [3]le_l...@yahoogroupes.fr Bonjour, Un ami m'a fait part de cette page `a propos de technique de main droite concernant la vihuela, que certains pourraient trouver interessante... [4]http://www.ralphmaier.com/index_files/Page318.htm (en faisant defiler il y a quelques videos de demonstrations) Bonne rentree `a tous... Val. __._,_.___ [5]Repondre `a expediteur | [6]Repondre `a groupe | [7]Repondre en mode Web | [8]Nouvelle discussion [9]Toute la discussion (1) Activites recentes: [10]Aller sur votre groupe [11]Yahoo! Groupes Passer A : [12]Texte seulement, [13]RA(c)sumA(c) du jour o [14]Desinscription o [15]Conditions d'utilisation . [stime=1313669394] __,_._,___ -- References 1. mailto:sauvag...@orange.fr 2. mailto:le_l...@yahoogroupes.fr 3. mailto:le_l...@yahoogroupes.fr 4. http://www.ralphmaier.com/index_files/Page318.htm 5. mailto:sauvag...@orange.fr?subject=Re%A0%3A%20Dedillo 6. mailto:le_l...@yahoogroupes.fr?subject=Re%A0%3A%20Dedillo 7. http://fr.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJyb2Qwajd1BF9TAzk3NDkwNDY4BGdycElkAzE2MTg5MzE0BGdycHNwSWQDMjEyMzgwMTYxNARtc2dJZAMxMzM1MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzEzMTM2NjkzOTQ-?act=replymessageNum=13352 8. http://fr.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZTg1MWoyBF9TAzk3NDkwNDY4BGdycElkAzE2MTg5MzE0BGdycHNwSWQDMjEyMzgwMTYxNARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzMTM2NjkzOTQ- 9. http://fr.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth/message/13352;_ylc=X3oDMTM3aGJtZjBqBF9TAzk3NDkwNDY4BGdycElkAzE2MTg5MzE0BGdycHNwSWQDMjEyMzgwMTYxNARtc2dJZAMxMzM1MgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzEzMTM2NjkzOTQEdHBjSWQDMTMzNTI- 10. http://fr.groups.yahoo.com/group/Le_luth;_ylc=X3oDMTJmM2VoNG03BF9TAzk3NDkwNDY4BGdycElkAzE2MTg5MzE0BGdycHNwSWQDMjEyMzgwMTYxNARzZWMDdnRsBHNsawN2Z2hwBHN0aW1lAzEzMTM2NjkzOTQ- 11. http://fr.groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJlaWZmczVhBF9TAzk3NDkwNDY4BGdycElkAzE2MTg5MzE0BGdycHNwSWQDMjEyMzgwMTYxNARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTMxMzY2OTM5NA-- 12. mailto:le_luth-traditio...@yahoogroupes.fr?subject=Changer%20le%20format%20:%20Traditionnel 13. mailto:le_luth-dig...@yahoogroupes.fr?subject=Messages%20du%20groupe%20:+R%C3%A9sum%C3%A9 14. mailto:le_luth-desabonnem...@yahoogroupes.fr?subject=D%E9sinscription 15. http://fr.docs.yahoo.com/info/utos.html To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com voice: (218) 728-1202 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871ref=name http://www.myspace.com/edslute http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin
[LUTE] Re: [Le_luth] Dedillo
On Aug 19, 2011, at 4:50 AM, Martin Shepherd wrote: I can't resist passing this on - fascinating stuff. Many thanks for doing so! Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [1]http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/ [2]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- References 1. http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/ 2. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [Le_luth] Dedillo
I remember seeing a concert of Inamura in 1980 in which he used dedillo on cadential trills in Dowland to great effect. All of us other lutenists were shaking our heads wondering how this guy got such great tone. Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [1]http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/ [2]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ -- References 1. http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/ 2. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: [Le_luth] Dedillo
Quite right, Ed, about the 7 course vihuela and how it is misunderstood
today. I plead guilty to tuning- and using- my own 7 course Chambure
copy as a part-time stealth 7 course lute. What I understand from
reading Ward Bermudo is that the 7th course is considered to be a
nominal high c string, (for a g vihuela) in order to make the higher
voices of motets, masses, etc. playable within reasonable areas of the
fingerboard- just like a having a 5 string cello for Bach's 6th cello
suite. In practical terms, of course, (the laws of physics being what
they are, despite what Republican's would like them to be) a 7 course
vihuela of say 59 cm. sl would actually be set up as a small D
instrument, whose scale allows the high g string- but it would be
nominally a G instrument with a high c string. All I would have to
do on mine would be to lower the 4th course from f to e to come up with
the correct intervals- then I would be good to go, playing all the
voices from the vocal scores. The other tuning in Bermudo is a
theoretical proposal of 4ths and 5ths that sounds cool but, like other
things, would be thankless wishful thinking; what with the laws of
physics being what they are; vis-a-vis the breaking point of gut and
the integrity of bridges to soundboard connections.
Dedillo? Tried it, don't like it; I'm with Fuenllana on that one. I
still await a convincing performance.
Dan
__
From: Edward Martin e...@gamutstrings.com
To: Martin Shepherd mar...@luteshop.co.uk, Lute List
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 9:30:30 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: [Le_luth] Dedillo
Thanks for posting this, Martin! Ralph Maier certainly gives us
something to contemplate.
Many of us play the vihuela, but very few, if any, play the dedillo
stroke. I have dabbled a bit with it, but not made a serious study
of it, and Maier makes a great case for making another attempt. He
is obviously using bright synthetic strings, and if he used gut, I
am certain that the tone emitted from the back side nail would be
sweeter; it seems too harsh on synthetics, in my opinion. But, he
wrote a great paper, and provides us with incentive to do better.
That is one thing that in our modern times, we have almost ignored:
dedillo.
There is another thing we have ignored, which is the 7-course
vihuela. Ward and Bermudo discuss this at length, and they make the
case for there having been theordinary vihuela in 6 courses, with
our standard renaissance tuning; the other is the 7-course vihuela,
in which entirely different tuning systems were employed. Ward
provides us with many names of vihuelistas who performed 7-course
vihuela, but other than Bermudo's examples, there is no existing
music for those tunings. Bermudo states that all the great
vihuelistas also played 7-course vihuela.
In particular, Bermudo states this instrument was used primarily for
doing intabulations. Yes, some modern players in our times do have
7-course vihuelas, but I have thus far found nobody in our times
using the 7-course vihuela as an instrument which utilizes it's
initial purpose, which is to use various tunings to devise
intabulations. All the ones, to my knowledge, use it as having an
extra bass course, similar to the lute. This was not the intent of
such an instrument.
We have come a long way in our understanding of the vihuela, but we
have a long journey ahead of us..
ed
At 02:50 PM 8/18/2011, Martin Shepherd wrote:
I can't resist passing this on - fascinating stuff.
M
Original Message
Subject: [Le_luth] Dedillo
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 14:08:41 +0200
From: Sauvage Valery [1]sauvag...@orange.fr
Reply-To: [2]le_l...@yahoogroupes.fr
To: [3]le_l...@yahoogroupes.fr
Bonjour,
Un ami m'a fait part de cette page `a propos de technique de main
droite
concernant la vihuela, que certains pourraient trouver
interessante...
[4]http://www.ralphmaier.com/index_files/Page318.htm
(en faisant defiler il y a quelques videos de demonstrations)
Bonne rentree `a tous...
Val.
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References
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4
