Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping?
In a message dated 2/17/2004 11:20:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > ah, I've had a complicated career. I'm not only a physicist, but I also > used to teach petrology. The PhD is actually in Geophysics and I did much of > my research work in what is basically mineralogy (Fe-Ti > oxides)... And, as for me, I did my Master's thesis on thermal histories of sedimentary basins with regard to using a technique called Argon-40/argon-39 stepwise heating geochronological dating (of detrital potassium felspars). Now, I work as a paintings conservator in an art museum - but my first passion is the lute! Kenneth
Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping?
Actually, it's more complicated. Asbestos is not a mineral as such. It's a
particular form ("habit" in mineralogist's lingo) that certain minerals can
take (i.e., elongated to the point that it becomes a fiber). Strictly, it's
"asbestiform minerals". The different forms of asbestos have varying
chemistry and crystal structure. The most common are chrysotile (a sheet
silicate of the serpentine family), and tremolite and crocidolite (both have
the amphibole crystal structure, but quite different chemistry). Chrysotile
is the most common but, as I understand it, it's crocidolite that's the most
likely to cause mesothelioma.
Yeah, I've had a complicated career. I'm not only a physicist, but I also
used to teach petrology. The PhD is actually in Geophysics and I did much of
my research work in what is basically mineralogy (Fe-Ti oxides)...
- Original Message -
From: "Jon Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Herbert Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping?
> Well said Herbert,
>
> > The lungs have tiny fingers called "cilia" which effectively sweep out
> > debris. A snippet of frog's throat will climb up a glass jar (or so
> > I've
> > heard). Without these little sweepers, one's lungs would become as
> > dusty
> > as the floor under a refrigerator or a table top in the attic.
>
> Yup, you got it (and I know you are a physicist, like my late father).
> One's
> lungs do sweep the garbage out, I feel it every morning as the smoking
> residue comes up.
> >
> > Asbestos dust is special in that it embeds itself into tissue (by being
> > sharp and barbed) and lasts forever, sometimes causing cancer for
> > unknown
> > reasons.
>
> Correct again, except that most asbestos isn't sharp and barbed. There are
> two forms (call them isotopes in your milieu, although they are molecular
> rather than elemental). The sharp molecules are relatively rare in the
> general population, but their depradations on the lungs are now called on
> all asbestos. Bad science can be quite expensive to the general
> population.
>
> Best, Jon
>
>
>
>
Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping?
Well said Herbert, > The lungs have tiny fingers called "cilia" which effectively sweep out > debris. A snippet of frog's throat will climb up a glass jar (or so I've > heard). Without these little sweepers, one's lungs would become as dusty > as the floor under a refrigerator or a table top in the attic. Yup, you got it (and I know you are a physicist, like my late father). One's lungs do sweep the garbage out, I feel it every morning as the smoking residue comes up. > > Asbestos dust is special in that it embeds itself into tissue (by being > sharp and barbed) and lasts forever, sometimes causing cancer for unknown > reasons. Correct again, except that most asbestos isn't sharp and barbed. There are two forms (call them isotopes in your milieu, although they are molecular rather than elemental). The sharp molecules are relatively rare in the general population, but their depradations on the lungs are now called on all asbestos. Bad science can be quite expensive to the general population. Best, Jon
Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping?
> a certain amount of dust is generated, and its accumulation in your > lungs is not healthy! The lungs have tiny fingers called "cilia" which effectively sweep out debris. A snippet of frog's throat will climb up a glass jar (or so I've heard). Without these little sweepers, one's lungs would become as dusty as the floor under a refrigerator or a table top in the attic. Asbestos dust is special in that it embeds itself into tissue (by being sharp and barbed) and lasts forever, sometimes causing cancer for unknown reasons.
Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping?
OK, I give up. Lots of things are lethal, the most lethal thing in the world is birth as once we get here we know we will all leave someday. Life is a terminal disease, it is just the timing. (But I intend to rival Methuselah - 832 years to go). We are all fools in one way or another, the problem is finding out which way. The American goes to Mexico and drinks the water (contrary to the travel agent's suggestion), he gets Montezuma's revenge. The Mexican has no problem. In the USA the incidence of allergies and asthma is rising radically. For a number of years there has been an obsession here with cleanliness and the elimination of germs. Is there a relationship here, a loss of immunity by the protection from the various minor but nasty bugs? We could all go into a cucoon and be safe. But what kind of life would that be. Asbestosis has been mentioned, but it takes years, not a casual acquaintance with a few fibers. The black lung disease of coal miners didn't hit all of them, and we are speaking of people with twenty years or more in the mines. I don't think I'd like to spend twenty years in the mines, but I doubt that I'd get the disease in a brief visit. A lung full of sawdust isn't my goal, I think it would be rather annoying even if it didn't cause a disease. But to cover oneself from any exposure is a bit impractical. Good judgement and a certain care is recommended (by me). If I stand behind a NYC bus I get more concentrations of carbon monoxide and soot than any danger from casual asbestos, but if I don't stay there forever I can clear my lungs. A real poison will have its effect immediately, whether a lethal dose or not. A material that is long term toxic has a cumulative effect. I take enough risk on enough things that I'll not cover my nose for a brief bit of wood turning, but if I'm going to spend some time over the work product I'll wear a respirator (actually I can't afford one, I'll use a filter mask). Best, Jon
Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping?
Jon-- Toxic or not, poisonous or not--I don't think you want to be inhaling wood dust unnecessarily. Sharp as your tools may be, a certain amount of dust is generated, and its accumulation in your lungs is not healthy! A paper filter mask at the least will help keep your nose clean. Regards, Leonard - Original Message - From: "Jon Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Ron Fletcher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 12:44 AM Subject: Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping? > Roman, > > OSHA is not very good at what they do. I await the study (probably from > Canada) that says that too much oxygen is toxic in rats. A toxin is > specifically a poison, as in snake venom. Then there are the substances that > are poisonous yet may be useful in low doses for certain conditions, such as > digitalis. Everything else can be toxic depending on the dosage. I am always > amused when carbon monoxide is referred to as a poisonous gas, it is not > poisonous as cyanide gas is. It is toxic as it is readily absorbed by the > red blood cells and blocks the absorption of oxygen. So in high > concentrations it is toxic (fatal), but not of itself poisonous. > > One of the two forms of asbestos (the one with sharp edges) is carcinogenic, > when breathed for years. OSHA requires that any building being renovated > that has asbestos insulation must be isolated. How often have I seen six > story buildings in NYC with a plastic shroud over the whole building (at > tremendous cost) as they are being renovated and a bit of asbestos might get > into the air. By the time the fibers are out in the street the > concentrations are such that there is no danger. It takes years of breathing > the stuff to gain a concentration that is carcinogenic. > > A toxin is a poison, and even small amounts have an immediate effect. An > excess of any substance, no matter how benign may be toxic in the long haul. > OSHA seems to have the view that anything that may be toxic in excess is > therefore a toxin. > > Best, Jon > > - Original Message - > From: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Jon Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Ron Fletcher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 8:56 AM > Subject: Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping? > > > > Jon, pretty much any saw dust is toxic (even pine). This is definitely > > OSHA'a opinion. > > RT > > __ > > Roman M. Turovsky > > http://turovsky.org > > http://polyhymnion.org > > > > > Poison needs to be absorbed or ingested (or injected, but avoid > scorpians > > > and venomous snakes). Either way it has to be loose enough, or floating > > > enough, to get into your system. I'll lick that Laburnum peg, but I > don't > > > think I'll chew it up and swallow it (and my teeth aren't that strong > > > anyway). > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping?
Dear Jon & all, This is way off topic, but in view of the potential danger to anyone who gets the wrong idea I thought it worth responding to your mailing. In my line of business (architectural technology) we have to keep up to speed with dangerous materials found in buildings. Asbestosis is the disease that arises from prolonged exposure to the material, but it's not a cancer. As I understand it the asbestos related cancer mesothelioma can sometimes occur as a result of relatively small exposure, although it may take years to develop. The message is, never knowingly expose anyone to asbestos dust. All varieties, blue, white and brown are hazardous and potentially lethal. And so, incidentally, is carbon monoxide - it must have killed many more people than cyanide. It only takes a faulty heating appliance and poor ventilation to cause deaths in a home. Best wishes, Denys - Original Message - From: "Jon Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Ron Fletcher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 5:44 AM Subject: Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping? > Roman, > > OSHA is not very good at what they do. I await the study (probably from > Canada) that says that too much oxygen is toxic in rats. A toxin is > specifically a poison, as in snake venom. Then there are the substances that > are poisonous yet may be useful in low doses for certain conditions, such as > digitalis. Everything else can be toxic depending on the dosage. I am always > amused when carbon monoxide is referred to as a poisonous gas, it is not > poisonous as cyanide gas is. It is toxic as it is readily absorbed by the > red blood cells and blocks the absorption of oxygen. So in high > concentrations it is toxic (fatal), but not of itself poisonous. > > One of the two forms of asbestos (the one with sharp edges) is carcinogenic, > when breathed for years. OSHA requires that any building being renovated > that has asbestos insulation must be isolated. How often have I seen six > story buildings in NYC with a plastic shroud over the whole building (at > tremendous cost) as they are being renovated and a bit of asbestos might get > into the air. By the time the fibers are out in the street the > concentrations are such that there is no danger. It takes years of breathing > the stuff to gain a concentration that is carcinogenic. > > A toxin is a poison, and even small amounts have an immediate effect. An > excess of any substance, no matter how benign may be toxic in the long haul. > OSHA seems to have the view that anything that may be toxic in excess is > therefore a toxin. > > Best, Jon > > - Original Message - > From: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Jon Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Ron Fletcher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 8:56 AM > Subject: Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping? > > > > Jon, pretty much any saw dust is toxic (even pine). This is definitely > > OSHA'a opinion. > > RT > > __ > > Roman M. Turovsky > > http://turovsky.org > > http://polyhymnion.org > > > > > Poison needs to be absorbed or ingested (or injected, but avoid > scorpians > > > and venomous snakes). Either way it has to be loose enough, or floating > > > enough, to get into your system. I'll lick that Laburnum peg, but I > don't > > > think I'll chew it up and swallow it (and my teeth aren't that strong > > > anyway). > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping?
Roman, OSHA is not very good at what they do. I await the study (probably from Canada) that says that too much oxygen is toxic in rats. A toxin is specifically a poison, as in snake venom. Then there are the substances that are poisonous yet may be useful in low doses for certain conditions, such as digitalis. Everything else can be toxic depending on the dosage. I am always amused when carbon monoxide is referred to as a poisonous gas, it is not poisonous as cyanide gas is. It is toxic as it is readily absorbed by the red blood cells and blocks the absorption of oxygen. So in high concentrations it is toxic (fatal), but not of itself poisonous. One of the two forms of asbestos (the one with sharp edges) is carcinogenic, when breathed for years. OSHA requires that any building being renovated that has asbestos insulation must be isolated. How often have I seen six story buildings in NYC with a plastic shroud over the whole building (at tremendous cost) as they are being renovated and a bit of asbestos might get into the air. By the time the fibers are out in the street the concentrations are such that there is no danger. It takes years of breathing the stuff to gain a concentration that is carcinogenic. A toxin is a poison, and even small amounts have an immediate effect. An excess of any substance, no matter how benign may be toxic in the long haul. OSHA seems to have the view that anything that may be toxic in excess is therefore a toxin. Best, Jon - Original Message - From: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jon Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Ron Fletcher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 8:56 AM Subject: Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping? > Jon, pretty much any saw dust is toxic (even pine). This is definitely > OSHA'a opinion. > RT > __ > Roman M. Turovsky > http://turovsky.org > http://polyhymnion.org > > > Poison needs to be absorbed or ingested (or injected, but avoid scorpians > > and venomous snakes). Either way it has to be loose enough, or floating > > enough, to get into your system. I'll lick that Laburnum peg, but I don't > > think I'll chew it up and swallow it (and my teeth aren't that strong > > anyway). > > > > >
Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping?
That's true, but most of the tropical hardwoods are down right toxic, and woods like Yew and Cypress are both toxic for domestic woods. Roman is right saw dust is not good for you, but some is far worse causing sever allergic reactions and significant respiratory distress. Always wear a respirator, a dust mask is not enough, when major sawing and sanding procedures are taking place or you can cause yourself damage. Vance Wood. - Original Message - From: "Roman Turovsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Jon Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Ron Fletcher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2004 5:56 AM Subject: Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping? > Jon, pretty much any saw dust is toxic (even pine). This is definitely > OSHA'a opinion. > RT > __ > Roman M. Turovsky > http://turovsky.org > http://polyhymnion.org > > > Poison needs to be absorbed or ingested (or injected, but avoid scorpians > > and venomous snakes). Either way it has to be loose enough, or floating > > enough, to get into your system. I'll lick that Laburnum peg, but I don't > > think I'll chew it up and swallow it (and my teeth aren't that strong > > anyway). > >
Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping?
Hi Jon: I have never had that kind of problem when it comes to pegs. Understanding that pegs are generally not turned from wood where growth ring run out is an issue to much of a degree. I believe most of the problems come from the relationship between the peg and the hole not being perfect, and or the wood for the peg/pegs is not one of the previously mentioned species. If the relationship between the peg and the hole is not based upon woods of similar properties then the natural expansion and contraction of wood over the passage of normal year is going to be dissimilar. This can cause one of two things to happen, the pegs will become overly tight and become difficult to turn, or they can become loose and slip a great deal. As has been pointed out earlier the use of Ebony for pegs can actually grind the holes for the pegs larger and in some cases make them elliptical. However, regardless of why and how this happens it is one of the several annoying traits common with owning, and trying to play, the Lute. The better the marriage between pegs and peg box in both cut and compatible materials will go a long way in lessening these problems. Vance Wood. - Original Message - From: "Jon Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Herbert Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Steve Ramey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 9:48 PM Subject: Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping? > Steve, > > You mention the way a log shrinks. You are right. Along with fussing with > instruments I also am a wood turner. No matter how well dried wood will have > a differential shrinkage until it becomes part of the Petrified Forest. It > is just a matter of how much and in which direction. A tree is made of the > heart wood (the early growth, which normally is of a different color in the > cross section). The heart wood is a bit brittle. Then you have the annual > growth, with the youngest and most moist on the outside. But no mattter the > place you cut the log the rings will always have a curve. The most stable > wood is what is called "quarter sawn", the arc of the annuallar rings is > less than near the center, and the wood is older than that near the surface. > > I'll not go further unless anyone wants me to. One learns a lot about wood > when turning bowls, goblets and other sorts of things. > > Best, Jon > > >
Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping?
Jon, pretty much any saw dust is toxic (even pine). This is definitely OSHA'a opinion. RT __ Roman M. Turovsky http://turovsky.org http://polyhymnion.org > Poison needs to be absorbed or ingested (or injected, but avoid scorpians > and venomous snakes). Either way it has to be loose enough, or floating > enough, to get into your system. I'll lick that Laburnum peg, but I don't > think I'll chew it up and swallow it (and my teeth aren't that strong > anyway).
Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping?
Steve, You mention the way a log shrinks. You are right. Along with fussing with instruments I also am a wood turner. No matter how well dried wood will have a differential shrinkage until it becomes part of the Petrified Forest. It is just a matter of how much and in which direction. A tree is made of the heart wood (the early growth, which normally is of a different color in the cross section). The heart wood is a bit brittle. Then you have the annual growth, with the youngest and most moist on the outside. But no mattter the place you cut the log the rings will always have a curve. The most stable wood is what is called "quarter sawn", the arc of the annuallar rings is less than near the center, and the wood is older than that near the surface. I'll not go further unless anyone wants me to. One learns a lot about wood when turning bowls, goblets and other sorts of things. Best, Jon
Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping?
Ron, The wood turner is definitely advised to use a mask, but I usually don't. I'd be perfectly happy to suck on a Laburnum lute peg, where I into a substitute for sucking my thumb (which I quit about 63 years ago). When a wood turner should definitely wear a mask, and a good one, is when turning green wood. Well aged wood is unlikely to have the spores of fungi, but green wood is likely to be infused with them. If you are getting dust when turning wood then you either have bad wood or dull tools. You should be able to make the wood come off in "peels" if you keep you tools in shape. Poison needs to be absorbed or ingested (or injected, but avoid scorpians and venomous snakes). Either way it has to be loose enough, or floating enough, to get into your system. I'll lick that Laburnum peg, but I don't think I'll chew it up and swallow it (and my teeth aren't that strong anyway). Best, Jon - Original Message - From: "Ron Fletcher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 2:06 PM Subject: FW: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping? > Certainly the seeds of the Laburnum and probably the leaves and flowers are > well known as being poisonous. Most gardening books will say that these > shrubs should not be grown in gardens where children play. > > Whether the wood is poisonous is not so important. The wood-turner is > always advised to wear a mask to avoid inhaling poisonous dust particles. > The finished pegs are then unlikely to end up in someones mouth. The > heads can be varnished to seal them from suckling babes etc. > > Does anyone suck a string that has already been in a Laburnum lute-peg? > > Replies to the list - please! > > Best Wishes > > Ron (UK) > > > > > > > -----Original Message- > From: Ed Margerum [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 10 February 2004 13:56 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping? > > At 7:48 AM +0100 2/10/04, Matthias Wagner wrote: > >Hello Vance, > > > >pear for pegs is a little bit too soft. I don't use this. > >Furthermore I used another > >wood, but I could not find the translation. Probably someone in this > >list knows the > >name. It is called "Goldregen". It is a ornamental tree in the > >garden. It flowers yellow > >and theese are very poisonous. > > There are at least three trees that are called "golden rain tree" in > English. > > Laburnum anagyroides, which is also called "golden chain tree" or > "common laburnum", and Laburnum alpinum, also known as "Scotch" or > "Alpine laburnum or golden chain", would fit your description of > being very poisonous. Both these trees have pendulous chains of > pea-like yellow flowers. Supposedly all parts of the laburnum are > poisonous when ingested. The Laburnums are native of Europe. (Cystis > laburnum is an older scientific name for common laburnum.) > > In North America, Koelruteria paniculata, a native of China, is known > as "golden rain" or "golden chain" tree, and also soapberry, but this > doesn't have the reputation of being poisonous. > > Ed Margerum > > > > > >
FW: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping?
Certainly the seeds of the Laburnum and probably the leaves and flowers are well known as being poisonous. Most gardening books will say that these shrubs should not be grown in gardens where children play. Whether the wood is poisonous is not so important. The wood-turner is always advised to wear a mask to avoid inhaling poisonous dust particles. The finished pegs are then unlikely to end up in someones mouth. The heads can be varnished to seal them from suckling babes etc. Does anyone suck a string that has already been in a Laburnum lute-peg? Replies to the list - please! Best Wishes Ron (UK) -Original Message- From: Ed Margerum [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 10 February 2004 13:56 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping? At 7:48 AM +0100 2/10/04, Matthias Wagner wrote: >Hello Vance, > >pear for pegs is a little bit too soft. I don't use this. >Furthermore I used another >wood, but I could not find the translation. Probably someone in this >list knows the >name. It is called "Goldregen". It is a ornamental tree in the >garden. It flowers yellow >and theese are very poisonous. There are at least three trees that are called "golden rain tree" in English. Laburnum anagyroides, which is also called "golden chain tree" or "common laburnum", and Laburnum alpinum, also known as "Scotch" or "Alpine laburnum or golden chain", would fit your description of being very poisonous. Both these trees have pendulous chains of pea-like yellow flowers. Supposedly all parts of the laburnum are poisonous when ingested. The Laburnums are native of Europe. (Cystis laburnum is an older scientific name for common laburnum.) In North America, Koelruteria paniculata, a native of China, is known as "golden rain" or "golden chain" tree, and also soapberry, but this doesn't have the reputation of being poisonous. Ed Margerum
Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping?
At 7:48 AM +0100 2/10/04, Matthias Wagner wrote: >Hello Vance, > >pear for pegs is a little bit too soft. I don't use this. >Furthermore I used another >wood, but I could not find the translation. Probably someone in this >list knows the >name. It is called "Goldregen". It is a ornamental tree in the >garden. It flowers yellow >and theese are very poisonous. There are at least three trees that are called "golden rain tree" in English. Laburnum anagyroides, which is also called "golden chain tree" or "common laburnum", and Laburnum alpinum, also known as "Scotch" or "Alpine laburnum or golden chain", would fit your description of being very poisonous. Both these trees have pendulous chains of pea-like yellow flowers. Supposedly all parts of the laburnum are poisonous when ingested. The Laburnums are native of Europe. (Cystis laburnum is an older scientific name for common laburnum.) In North America, Koelruteria paniculata, a native of China, is known as "golden rain" or "golden chain" tree, and also soapberry, but this doesn't have the reputation of being poisonous. Ed Margerum
Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping?
Goldregen is "laburnum" g On 10.02.2004, at 07:48, Matthias Wagner wrote: > Hello Vance, > > pear for pegs is a little bit too soft. I don't use this. > The best wood for pegs is boxwood, followed by Plumwood which I use > very often > and Olive wood. Besides stability this looks very nice. Furthermore I > used another > wood, but I could not find the translation. Probably someone in this > list knows the > name. It is called "Goldregen". It is a ornamental tree in the garden. > It flowers yellow > and theese are very poisonous. > > Regards > > Matthias > >> Hi Herbert: It depends on the material of both the peg and the peg >> box. >> Material for the guts of the peg box should be Beech, it is hard, >> light >> weight, and stable. The preferred material for the pegs is Pear or >> other >> fruit woods. This wood is dense, strong, stable and not particularly >> prone >> to extremes of expansion and contraction with the weather and >> humidity. >> However, many Lutes are made with solid Ebony pegs. Ebony is a very >> abrasive wood in that it will actually wear away the interior of the >> peg >> holes making them bigger. If you think you are having problems with >> pegs >> slipping, detach the string and dust the peghole with a little chalk, >> this >> should help. >> >> Vance Wood. > -- > > Matthias Wagner, Lute making > string distribution:Savarez, Aquila, Kürschner, Pyramid, Pirastro > Klemmbachstr. 11 a > D - 79410 Badenweiler - Schweighof > Tel. +49-7632 - 82 86 95, Fax: +49-7632 82 898 68 > e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://www.lutes-strings.de > http://www.music-strings.de ( strings - shop ) > > >
Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping?
Hello Vance, pear for pegs is a little bit too soft. I don't use this. The best wood for pegs is boxwood, followed by Plumwood which I use very often and Olive wood. Besides stability this looks very nice. Furthermore I used another wood, but I could not find the translation. Probably someone in this list knows the name. It is called "Goldregen". It is a ornamental tree in the garden. It flowers yellow and theese are very poisonous. Regards Matthias > Hi Herbert: It depends on the material of both the peg and the peg box. > Material for the guts of the peg box should be Beech, it is hard, light > weight, and stable. The preferred material for the pegs is Pear or other > fruit woods. This wood is dense, strong, stable and not particularly prone > to extremes of expansion and contraction with the weather and humidity. > However, many Lutes are made with solid Ebony pegs. Ebony is a very > abrasive wood in that it will actually wear away the interior of the peg > holes making them bigger. If you think you are having problems with pegs > slipping, detach the string and dust the peghole with a little chalk, this > should help. > > Vance Wood. -- Matthias Wagner, Lute making string distribution:Savarez, Aquila, Kürschner, Pyramid, Pirastro Klemmbachstr. 11 a D - 79410 Badenweiler - Schweighof Tel. +49-7632 - 82 86 95, Fax: +49-7632 82 898 68 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.lutes-strings.de http://www.music-strings.de ( strings - shop )
Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping?
Hi Herbert: It depends on the material of both the peg and the peg box. Material for the guts of the peg box should be Beech, it is hard, light weight, and stable. The preferred material for the pegs is Pear or other fruit woods. This wood is dense, strong, stable and not particularly prone to extremes of expansion and contraction with the weather and humidity. However, many Lutes are made with solid Ebony pegs. Ebony is a very abrasive wood in that it will actually wear away the interior of the peg holes making them bigger. If you think you are having problems with pegs slipping, detach the string and dust the peghole with a little chalk, this should help. Vance Wood. - Original Message - From: "Herbert Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 10:13 AM Subject: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping? > > How long do pegs last? Do their friction surfaces wear smooth (become > polished), and lose their ability to hold the strings at tension? > >
Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping?
>I just finished re-fretting a lute made in 1978 that still had its original pegs. They were a little over-lubricated and one or two had gone a little out of round, but basically they were still working well. They were black, but I think they were dyed rather than made out of ebony. So I guess pegs can last for a long time, as long as they fit well. Tim > > > Original Message >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping? >Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 12:08:59 -0800 > >>From the luthiers I've talked to, the reason that violinists etc. >have peg >>jobs so often is their insistence on ebony pegs. Ebony is somewhat >abrasive >>and wears out the holes fairly quickly. Not really a problem with >most of >>the woods used for lute pegs. If pegs are slipping, check to see if >they are >>out of round (just pull it out and see if the bearing surface is >evenly >>polished, or only at a couple of spots). If it is out of round, it's >not >>hard to get it back to round, or just take it to a luthier. If it's >not out >>of round, a little peg dope should be sufficient to get it working >properly >>(some prefer chalk). You should be able find peg dope at almost any >music >>store. >> >> >>- Original Message - >>From: "Steve Ramey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: "Herbert Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 11:40 AM >>Subject: Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping? >> >> >>> Herb, >>> >>> Friction pegs work, not because of roughness between the peg and >the hole >>> but rather due to the precision of roundness and taper between the >peg and >>> the hole. >>> >>> Can't speak to how long pegs last, but I do know violinists, >violists, >>> cellists and such folks have peg jobs done on their instruments >every few >>> years. Mostly, I think the pegs and peg holes go out of round due >to >>> uneven wood shrinkage. They have their friendly repair man shave >the pegs >>> ever so slightly back into round and ream the peg holes back into >round >>> and that works for a while. Eventually, the repairman drills out >the peg >>> holes, glues in boxwood bushings, redrills the holes, and reams >them and >>> shaves new pegs to fit. >>> >>> Ebony and rosewood, both common peg woods, tend to shrink more >than >>> boxwood. That's why boxwood was the wood of choice for >sliderules-- >>> remember them?, engineers' scales and such. >>> >>> Don't recall exactly where I saw it last, but there's a relatively >common >>> illustration of how wood shrinks. It's a drawing of a log, >end-on, with >>> outlines of various planks as they could be sawn from it and how >they >>> shrink differently. As I recall, one of the examples shows >something like >>> a 1x3 cut horizontally from about the 12 o'clock position on the >log. The >>> illustration shows the 3" surfaces shrinking only slightly (toward >the >>> center of the plank) with the 1" surfaces shrinking more (again, >toward >>> the center of the plank). Thus, for purposes of illustration, we >might >>> assume the final dimensions of the plank to be something like 7/8" >x 2 >>> 1/2". Although lute woods are well cured before the building >process is >>> begun, the shrinking process continues. >>> >>> My $.02 worth. Hope it's a little clearer than mud. >>> >>> Best, >>> Steve >>> >>> Herbert Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> >>> How long do pegs last? Do their friction surfaces wear smooth >(become >>> polished), and lose their ability to hold the strings at tension? >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >> >> >>
Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping?
>From the luthiers I've talked to, the reason that violinists etc. have peg jobs so often is their insistence on ebony pegs. Ebony is somewhat abrasive and wears out the holes fairly quickly. Not really a problem with most of the woods used for lute pegs. If pegs are slipping, check to see if they are out of round (just pull it out and see if the bearing surface is evenly polished, or only at a couple of spots). If it is out of round, it's not hard to get it back to round, or just take it to a luthier. If it's not out of round, a little peg dope should be sufficient to get it working properly (some prefer chalk). You should be able find peg dope at almost any music store. - Original Message - From: "Steve Ramey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Herbert Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 11:40 AM Subject: Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping? > Herb, > > Friction pegs work, not because of roughness between the peg and the hole > but rather due to the precision of roundness and taper between the peg and > the hole. > > Can't speak to how long pegs last, but I do know violinists, violists, > cellists and such folks have peg jobs done on their instruments every few > years. Mostly, I think the pegs and peg holes go out of round due to > uneven wood shrinkage. They have their friendly repair man shave the pegs > ever so slightly back into round and ream the peg holes back into round > and that works for a while. Eventually, the repairman drills out the peg > holes, glues in boxwood bushings, redrills the holes, and reams them and > shaves new pegs to fit. > > Ebony and rosewood, both common peg woods, tend to shrink more than > boxwood. That's why boxwood was the wood of choice for sliderules-- > remember them?, engineers' scales and such. > > Don't recall exactly where I saw it last, but there's a relatively common > illustration of how wood shrinks. It's a drawing of a log, end-on, with > outlines of various planks as they could be sawn from it and how they > shrink differently. As I recall, one of the examples shows something like > a 1x3 cut horizontally from about the 12 o'clock position on the log. The > illustration shows the 3" surfaces shrinking only slightly (toward the > center of the plank) with the 1" surfaces shrinking more (again, toward > the center of the plank). Thus, for purposes of illustration, we might > assume the final dimensions of the plank to be something like 7/8" x 2 > 1/2". Although lute woods are well cured before the building process is > begun, the shrinking process continues. > > My $.02 worth. Hope it's a little clearer than mud. > > Best, > Steve > > Herbert Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > How long do pegs last? Do their friction surfaces wear smooth (become > polished), and lose their ability to hold the strings at tension? > > > > -- >
Re: Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping?
Herb, Friction pegs work, not because of roughness between the peg and the hole but rather due to the precision of roundness and taper between the peg and the hole. Can't speak to how long pegs last, but I do know violinists, violists, cellists and such folks have peg jobs done on their instruments every few years. Mostly, I think the pegs and peg holes go out of round due to uneven wood shrinkage. They have their friendly repair man shave the pegs ever so slightly back into round and ream the peg holes back into round and that works for a while. Eventually, the repairman drills out the peg holes, glues in boxwood bushings, redrills the holes, and reams them and shaves new pegs to fit. Ebony and rosewood, both common peg woods, tend to shrink more than boxwood. That's why boxwood was the wood of choice for sliderules-- remember them?, engineers' scales and such. Don't recall exactly where I saw it last, but there's a relatively common illustration of how wood shrinks. It's a drawing of a log, end-on, with outlines of various planks as they could be sawn from it and how they shrink differently. As I recall, one of the examples shows something like a 1x3 cut horizontally from about the 12 o'clock position on the log. The illustration shows the 3" surfaces shrinking only slightly (toward the center of the plank) with the 1" surfaces shrinking more (again, toward the center of the plank). Thus, for purposes of illustration, we might assume the final dimensions of the plank to be something like 7/8" x 2 1/2". Although lute woods are well cured before the building process is begun, the shrinking process continues. My $.02 worth. Hope it's a little clearer than mud. Best, Steve Herbert Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: How long do pegs last? Do their friction surfaces wear smooth (become polished), and lose their ability to hold the strings at tension? --
Do pegs get smooth and begin slipping?
How long do pegs last? Do their friction surfaces wear smooth (become polished), and lose their ability to hold the strings at tension?
