Re: Thoroughbass Playing ...
> .. and it provides a certain color to the sound. > A year or so ago I attended a performance of St.John passion which had a > much to large choir and a double orchestra but just one archlute. And > even there the archlute (okay - no baroque lute) was well hearable. > Donatella made a good point: It also depends on how you play continuo. > When you just strum chords you are just doubling the Cello (and/or ...) > but when you create your voice you will be heard. Nigel North did something like that for Bach suites with the Brandenburg Consort (and it was very nice), but I don't think every conductor would be that tolerant. RT
Re: Thoroughbass Playing ...
.. and it provides a certain color to the sound. A year or so ago I attended a performance of St.John passion which had a much to large choir and a double orchestra but just one archlute. And even there the archlute (okay - no baroque lute) was well hearable. Donatella made a good point: It also depends on how you play continuo. When you just strum chords you are just doubling the Cello (and/or ...) but when you create your voice you will be heard. Best wishes Thomas Am Sam, 2004-03-27 um 09.44 schrieb steffen gliese: > ..which is more than you can say about a second-row violinist > in the Philharmonics. > Steffen > > Fri, 26 Mar 2004 20:19:05 -0500, Roman Turovsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > skrev: > > >> Also the theobo plays it's role in the baroque orchestra. > > As an internal metronome in polychoral music, to keep the beat when the > > conductor is too far to see/hear. This is an old trecento practice: to > > put a > > harpist in a remote choir to keep them together, audible only to the the > > singers themselves. > > RT > > > > > > > > -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.lautenist.de / www.tslaute.de/weiss --
Re: Thoroughbass Playing ...
..which is more than you can say about a second-row violinist in the Philharmonics. Steffen Fri, 26 Mar 2004 20:19:05 -0500, Roman Turovsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> skrev: >> Also the theobo plays it's role in the baroque orchestra. > As an internal metronome in polychoral music, to keep the beat when the > conductor is too far to see/hear. This is an old trecento practice: to > put a > harpist in a remote choir to keep them together, audible only to the the > singers themselves. > RT > > > > -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nobile.dk
Re: Thoroughbass Playing ...
> Also the theobo plays it's role in the baroque orchestra. As an internal metronome in polychoral music, to keep the beat when the conductor is too far to see/hear. This is an old trecento practice: to put a harpist in a remote choir to keep them together, audible only to the the singers themselves. RT
Re: Thoroughbass Playing ...
Sorry for going backwards through this thread, but ... Am Mit, 2004-03-24 um 02.01 schrieb Roman Turovsky: > unflattering to the instrument no matter who plays it, Smith, Kirchhoff, > Schall or (salva nos) Wikla. Nice to be heard among such names ... Have you been listening to the Duo recording of Lutz and Carminiola? The small settings for duos or trios are perfect for baroque lute, some concertos even for larger combinations do exists and I am convinced the lute has an important role within the concept of the piece of art: not just "looking beautifull". and as I wrote elsewhere the lute will be heard in an ensemble. But you are right in so far as the baroque lute is better suited within small groups and even there changes it's character focusing rather on the percussive range of it's possibilities. Also the theobo plays it's role in the baroque orchestra. -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.lautenist.de / www.tslaute.de/weiss --
Re: Thoroughbass Playing ...
> hehehe - even at his times were rumors JAH would have got his well paid
> and respectable job mainly to get his wife (Faustina) into the opera of
> Dresden.
>
> I'm not sure about the quality of his works but they were very popular
> at his time and later. Even ETA Hoffmann ("Gespenster-Hoffmann")
> compared them to Beethoven's piano works.
ETAH was also fond of Viotti, so his opinion is suspect.
> I just know the things which were transcribed for lute and the one or
> other aria and don't think they are to bad ...
They are not bad, actually there is almost no bad music in general. It is
just not good.
RT
Re: Thoroughbass Playing ...
hehehe - even at his times were rumors JAH would have got his well paid
and respectable job mainly to get his wife (Faustina) into the opera of
Dresden.
I'm not sure about the quality of his works but they were very popular
at his time and later. Even ETA Hoffmann ("Gespenster-Hoffmann")
compared them to Beethoven's piano works.
I just know the things which were transcribed for lute and the one or
other aria and don't think they are to bad ...
Best regards
Thomas
Am Mit, 2004-03-24 um 02.34 schrieb Roman Turovsky:
> > This week
> > I have to much work on many such ''unknown'' ones (Schaffrath's duo for
> > lute & cello, ...) and I'm honestly involved, but I realy prefere
> > playing it, then struggling with my poor English, if you forgive me.
> Now, Schaffrath is interesting.
>
>
> >>> Too well, in fact. Proliferation of music does not automatically mean
> >>> it is
> >>> good. Fashion supercedes substance, hopefully temporarily.
> >>> Try to convince me with a specific musical example that JAH had a
> >>> soul.
> >>> Music has to be (at least slightly) disturbing to be good.
> > Just soul, just emotions? No, Roman.
> Intelligence too. The difference between an artist and a Hasse is that the
> former (like a passerby outside a restaurant window) knows that all good
> things eventually come to an end.
>
>
> > I'm not lover of Wagner,
> I am.
>
> > and the likes. JAH has elegance and drive, and craftsmanship, and...
> ..Absolutely no sense of loss.
>
> > without multiplying words, just give him a chance for two or three
> > years. Play his music -- there is some even for lute solo!, not easy,
> > but better then many original baroque lute solos, simply professional
> > music.
> Playing and listening are 2 completely different endeavors. I'd grant you
> that JAH maybe fun to play, but listening to him is whole different thing.
>
>
> >>> Hasse's could't disturb a fly, it served Morpheus rather than Apollo.
> > It was the virtuoso you were listening to who served Morpheus, not
> > Hasse. But what about Boccherini then? People say it's the only music
> > the God is listening to on Sunday afternoons, and I stand by Him!
> Op.35, #1, second movement, any time, baby.
> RT
--
Thomas Schall
Niederhofheimer Weg 3
D-65843 Sulzbach
06196/74519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.lautenist.de / www.tslaute.de/weiss
--
Re: Thoroughbass Playing ...
Hi Markus, actually I never felt the volume of a lute a problem - it's well hearable everywhere. The lute sounds "silent" but usually can be well heard even in larger ensembles. I have played "against" 4 viols and a recorder and on the final record the producer even took the volume of my mik down ... Thomas Am Mit, 2004-03-24 um 11.18 schrieb Markus Lutz: > As listener I have made the - to me surprising - experience that a baroque lute in a > not too small church was heard quite well in a chamber ensemble. > Exspectingly in the duo with the cembalo the lute could be heard even better. > The only sad thing was, that the lute - I sat in one of the last rows - lost her > "silver sound". > After the concert I had the chance to talk to the lutenist - Oswald Hebermehl - and > even try the lute. > It had a very good sound but the distance had darkened it and made it a little bit > hard. > Also he had strung the lute wholly with gut. Playing in an ensemble with original > instrument he had asked himself, why he should be the only one to play with modern > artifical string. > > Best > Markus > > On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:49:16 +0100, LGS-Europe wrote: > > L> To elaborate on my gut-in-continuo progaganda let me give some of my > L> experiences. > L> > L> Last year I played a series of concerts with Dowland's consort music: five > L> viols, a tenor and one lute. This year I did the same programme with the > L> same group, but with a different lute and different strings. Last year I > L> used a 59cm 8-course lute strung with carbon and Kürschner metal on nylon > L> wound basses and I still played with nails. This year I used a 62cm > L> 10-course lute strung with gut, Gamut gimped for fundamentals 6-10, played > L> without nails. Both instruments are made by Nico van der Waals. We played > L> both series of concerts in a variety of locations: modern concert halls, > L> nice big old (city hall e.g.) rooms and churches. The lute with > L> gut-and-fingers was much, much better to hear within the ensemble, and much, > L> much better to hear in the audience. Apart from better blending with the > L> viols, it was especially more clear in the attack of each individual note: > L> people could follow me note by note. Contrary to my initial expectation, > L> actually, because I thought the carbon-and-nails combination would penetrate > L> better. But then I had to struggle to make myself heard, resulting in a > L> harsher, sharper sound. > L> > L> Last weekend I played archlute (and baroque guitar!) continuo in the Matthew > L> Passion in a very large church in Holland (Domkerk in Utrecht). My archlute > L> (64cm/140cm) is entirely strung in gut, only gimped on the fundamentals of 6 > L> and 7 on the fingerboard. It was loud, louder than it has ever been when it > L> was still carbon strung and played with nails. I have the same experiecne > L> with my theorbo: better in ensemble and orchestra because of the gut > L> strings. Better blending of sound, but also fuller in tone quality and more > L> penetrating. > L> > L> Just my experience. > L> > L> David > L> > L> > L> > > -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.lautenist.de / www.tslaute.de/weiss --
Re: Thoroughbass Playing ...
Yes, you are very right. I distiguish between two things: "Lautstaerke" (volume) and "Tragfaehigkeit" (penetrating?). The lute usually does not have very much volume but the penetrating is very well. I once played in a large cathedral and had the effect that my partner on traverso was better heard in the first rows but the last rows only heard the lute ... Thomas Am Mit, 2004-03-24 um 10.49 schrieb LGS-Europe: > To elaborate on my gut-in-continuo progaganda let me give some of my > experiences. > > Last year I played a series of concerts with Dowland's consort music: five > viols, a tenor and one lute. This year I did the same programme with the > same group, but with a different lute and different strings. Last year I > used a 59cm 8-course lute strung with carbon and Kürschner metal on nylon > wound basses and I still played with nails. This year I used a 62cm > 10-course lute strung with gut, Gamut gimped for fundamentals 6-10, played > without nails. Both instruments are made by Nico van der Waals. We played > both series of concerts in a variety of locations: modern concert halls, > nice big old (city hall e.g.) rooms and churches. The lute with > gut-and-fingers was much, much better to hear within the ensemble, and much, > much better to hear in the audience. Apart from better blending with the > viols, it was especially more clear in the attack of each individual note: > people could follow me note by note. Contrary to my initial expectation, > actually, because I thought the carbon-and-nails combination would penetrate > better. But then I had to struggle to make myself heard, resulting in a > harsher, sharper sound. > > Last weekend I played archlute (and baroque guitar!) continuo in the Matthew > Passion in a very large church in Holland (Domkerk in Utrecht). My archlute > (64cm/140cm) is entirely strung in gut, only gimped on the fundamentals of 6 > and 7 on the fingerboard. It was loud, louder than it has ever been when it > was still carbon strung and played with nails. I have the same experiecne > with my theorbo: better in ensemble and orchestra because of the gut > strings. Better blending of sound, but also fuller in tone quality and more > penetrating. > > Just my experience. > > David -- Thomas Schall Niederhofheimer Weg 3 D-65843 Sulzbach 06196/74519 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.lautenist.de / www.tslaute.de/weiss --
Re: Thoroughbass Playing ...
I can play continuo with a theorbo or an archlute, but my favourite is the baroque lute because I find it more flexible. I played more that once with harpsichord, flute ( or recorder ) , gamba, even a singer ( all together) and the lute is well audible. Of course it depends on the way one plays: I prefer to choose a kind of counterpoint , more than just chords, and make a sort of dialogue with the harpsichord. It also depends on the skill of the harpsichord player. I remember once , at a summer course, I wanted to play Baron with flute ( of course) and harpsichord, without gamba. The flute teacher , who is well known, went on asking me why harpsichord and not gamba, until she heard that at the final concert , so that after rehearsing she told me : "Now I know it!" I put a short mp3 on my site with flute and viola d'amore, but the recording has been mastered in such a way as to cover a bit the lute (NB: the viola d'amore is the middle voice). I'll put a better one soon. I noticed there are a lot of paintings with baroque lute and harpsichord, so it means it was something usual. Donatella http://web.tiscali.it/awebd - Original Message - From: ""Mathias Rösel"" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lutelist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:44 PM Subject: Re: Thoroughbass Playing ... > "Markus Lutz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: > > As listener I have made the - to me surprising - experience that a baroque lute in a not too small church was heard quite well in a chamber ensemble. > > what did they play (music)? > > > Exspectingly in the duo with the cembalo the lute could be heard even better. > > I'm thunderstruck. I guess my 13c wouldn't be heard beside a > harpsichord. How did they do it? Playing as close as possible near the > bridge? > > -- > Best, > > Mathias > > Mathias Roesel, Grosze Annenstrasze 5, 28199 Bremen, Deutschland/ > Germany, T/F +49 - 421 - 165 49 97, Fax +49 1805 060 334 480 67, E-Mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >
Re: Thoroughbass Playing ...
On 24 Mar 2004 12:44 GMT, Mathias Rösel wrote: MR> "Markus Lutz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: MR> > As listener I have made the - to me surprising - experience that a baroque lute in a not too small church was heard quite well in a chamber ensemble. MR> MR> what did they play (music)? MR> Some baroque cantatas with voice (tenor) and suites, if I remember correctly it was Bach, Handel, Telemann. But I am not very sure about that, it was in november 2003. MR> > Exspectingly in the duo with the cembalo the lute could be heard even better. MR> MR> I'm thunderstruck. I guess my 13c wouldn't be heard beside a MR> harpsichord. How did they do it? Playing as close as possible near the MR> bridge? MR> To be true, I cannot tell you, because I hadn't quite the best look at the lutenist and I haven't looked at this more closely. They played a reconstruction by Charly Schröder: Weiss's sonata in B flat major that is in Dresden and London. The lute played flute/lute 1. Kind regards, Markus MR> -- MR> Best, MR> MR> Mathias MR> MR> Mathias Roesel, Grosze Annenstrasze 5, 28199 Bremen, Deutschland/ MR> Germany, T/F +49 - 421 - 165 49 97, Fax +49 1805 060 334 480 67, E-Mail: MR> [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], MR> [EMAIL PROTECTED] MR> MR> MR>
Re: Thoroughbass Playing ...
> Existence of fine chamber music with Baroque Lute does not disprove this, > for it makes for a painful listening experience. Instruments smother the > lute, making audible only wrong/sour notes, or rhythmic mistakes. You are talking about non-accomplished lute players playing lutes with improper strings. Try listening to a baroque lute with gut strings in a small chamber music group: it is so clear, and beautiful!, what the instrument adds to the group. I do not play baroque lute, but have had the pleasure of listening to good players with good instruments strung with gut making beautiful music in ensemble. Just an observation. David
Re: Thoroughbass Playing ...
"Markus Lutz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: > As listener I have made the - to me surprising - experience that a baroque lute in a > not too small church was heard quite well in a chamber ensemble. what did they play (music)? > Exspectingly in the duo with the cembalo the lute could be heard even better. I'm thunderstruck. I guess my 13c wouldn't be heard beside a harpsichord. How did they do it? Playing as close as possible near the bridge? -- Best, Mathias Mathias Roesel, Grosze Annenstrasze 5, 28199 Bremen, Deutschland/ Germany, T/F +49 - 421 - 165 49 97, Fax +49 1805 060 334 480 67, E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Thoroughbass Playing ...
As listener I have made the - to me surprising - experience that a baroque lute in a not too small church was heard quite well in a chamber ensemble. Exspectingly in the duo with the cembalo the lute could be heard even better. The only sad thing was, that the lute - I sat in one of the last rows - lost her "silver sound". After the concert I had the chance to talk to the lutenist - Oswald Hebermehl - and even try the lute. It had a very good sound but the distance had darkened it and made it a little bit hard. Also he had strung the lute wholly with gut. Playing in an ensemble with original instrument he had asked himself, why he should be the only one to play with modern artifical string. Best Markus On Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:49:16 +0100, LGS-Europe wrote: L> To elaborate on my gut-in-continuo progaganda let me give some of my L> experiences. L> L> Last year I played a series of concerts with Dowland's consort music: five L> viols, a tenor and one lute. This year I did the same programme with the L> same group, but with a different lute and different strings. Last year I L> used a 59cm 8-course lute strung with carbon and Kürschner metal on nylon L> wound basses and I still played with nails. This year I used a 62cm L> 10-course lute strung with gut, Gamut gimped for fundamentals 6-10, played L> without nails. Both instruments are made by Nico van der Waals. We played L> both series of concerts in a variety of locations: modern concert halls, L> nice big old (city hall e.g.) rooms and churches. The lute with L> gut-and-fingers was much, much better to hear within the ensemble, and much, L> much better to hear in the audience. Apart from better blending with the L> viols, it was especially more clear in the attack of each individual note: L> people could follow me note by note. Contrary to my initial expectation, L> actually, because I thought the carbon-and-nails combination would penetrate L> better. But then I had to struggle to make myself heard, resulting in a L> harsher, sharper sound. L> L> Last weekend I played archlute (and baroque guitar!) continuo in the Matthew L> Passion in a very large church in Holland (Domkerk in Utrecht). My archlute L> (64cm/140cm) is entirely strung in gut, only gimped on the fundamentals of 6 L> and 7 on the fingerboard. It was loud, louder than it has ever been when it L> was still carbon strung and played with nails. I have the same experiecne L> with my theorbo: better in ensemble and orchestra because of the gut L> strings. Better blending of sound, but also fuller in tone quality and more L> penetrating. L> L> Just my experience. L> L> David L> L> L>
Re: Thoroughbass Playing ...
To elaborate on my gut-in-continuo progaganda let me give some of my experiences. Last year I played a series of concerts with Dowland's consort music: five viols, a tenor and one lute. This year I did the same programme with the same group, but with a different lute and different strings. Last year I used a 59cm 8-course lute strung with carbon and Kürschner metal on nylon wound basses and I still played with nails. This year I used a 62cm 10-course lute strung with gut, Gamut gimped for fundamentals 6-10, played without nails. Both instruments are made by Nico van der Waals. We played both series of concerts in a variety of locations: modern concert halls, nice big old (city hall e.g.) rooms and churches. The lute with gut-and-fingers was much, much better to hear within the ensemble, and much, much better to hear in the audience. Apart from better blending with the viols, it was especially more clear in the attack of each individual note: people could follow me note by note. Contrary to my initial expectation, actually, because I thought the carbon-and-nails combination would penetrate better. But then I had to struggle to make myself heard, resulting in a harsher, sharper sound. Last weekend I played archlute (and baroque guitar!) continuo in the Matthew Passion in a very large church in Holland (Domkerk in Utrecht). My archlute (64cm/140cm) is entirely strung in gut, only gimped on the fundamentals of 6 and 7 on the fingerboard. It was loud, louder than it has ever been when it was still carbon strung and played with nails. I have the same experiecne with my theorbo: better in ensemble and orchestra because of the gut strings. Better blending of sound, but also fuller in tone quality and more penetrating. Just my experience. David
Re: Thoroughbass Playing ...
On Tue, 23 Mar 2004, Roman Turovsky wrote: > >>> do you yourself REALLY PLAY the continuo? > >> Repeatedly during February and March, and March 19 in public. > > > > So, a couple of months? And also once(!) in public? > And how long have you been playing Baroque Lute? A couple of years at the end of 80's. But what is your _continuo_ playing history and experience? You seem to have quite strong opinions on that, especially on the use of baroque lute on it. So it would be very informative to hear more of your experiences! Arto
Re: Thoroughbass Playing ...
On Tue, 23 Mar 2004, Roman Turovsky wrote: > > Dear Roman, > > do you yourself REALLY PLAY the continuo? > Repeatedly during February and March, and March 19 in public. So, a couple of months? And also once(!) in public? > > Or are you just speculating > > with the "unknown"? This just came to mind while reading your strong > > opinions on the subject... > What are you talking about? See my questions above! Arto
Re: Thoroughbass Playing ...
On Tue, 23 Mar 2004, Roman Turovsky wrote: > >> IMO: Baroque Lute is ill-suited to any group endeavor, excepted accompanying > >> a single voice singing maximum at mezza voce. > > > > You're playing continuo whether you're accompanying 1 voice or 100. > Unless you are playing independent obbligato, which is a bit more flattering > to the instrument. Dear Roman, do you yourself REALLY PLAY the continuo? Or are you just speculating with the "unknown"? This just came to mind while reading your strong opinions on the subject... Arto
Re: Thoroughbass Playing ...
Roman Turovsky at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > IMO: Baroque Lute is ill-suited to any group endeavor, excepted accompanying > a single voice singing maximum at mezza voce. You're playing continuo whether you're accompanying 1 voice or 100. > Existence of fine chamber music with Baroque Lute does not disprove this, > for it makes for a painful listening experience. Instruments smother the > lute, making audible only wrong/sour notes, or rhythmic mistakes. > Anyway such chamber music is not for public either, it is still possible to > hear a lute in a trio facing each other in a small room, but the audience > won't hear a thing except the mistakes. I think I just found the perfect repertoire for me. HP
Re: Thoroughbass Playing ...
On Tuesday, Mar 23, 2004, at 19:40 Europe/Warsaw, Roman Turovsky wrote: > ... someone else's execrable music (like Hasse's for example). > RT > ... I fail to recall any of his music > RT > ... Sugar as an anti-depressant??? Not for me. > RT I perfectly understand your point. How you can like something if you don't know it? -- that's obvious. jurek PS Forgive gloomy remark, but the <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> is dead, isn't it?
Re: Thoroughbass Playing ...
Citat Roman Turovsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: OK Roman, I see your point. But what about Merville? Anyone else? What tuning did he use? Anxiously, Arne.
Re: Thoroughbass Playing ...
>> IMO: Baroque Lute is ill-suited to any group endeavor, excepted >> accompanying >> a single voice singing maximum at mezza voce. It is destined to be a >> PRIVATE >> instrument, like clavichord, as I said elsewhere. > What is private and what is public in terms of 18th C. and 21st C. --? > Very complicated matter, indeed. Where would you then situate a CD > recording as a musical ''performance''. All parameters has changed > since 1700/1800 so phonography could perhaps be considered as a modern > equivalent to the pre-romantic chamber performances??? Possibly so. > >> Existence of fine chamber music with Baroque Lute does not disprove >> this, >> for it makes for a painful listening experience. Instruments smother >> the >> lute, making audible only wrong/sour notes, or rhythmic mistakes. > .. or performers are still not that good as Reusner, Weiss and Hagen > .. or modern ''baroque'' string players are unable for the true > compromise (but they are always happy for a compromise in the oposite > direction). In fact a lute faces a similar problem as the baroque > traverso flute... IMO They must be forced to wear mutes- No sordino: No sex. Just say NO. >> Anyway such chamber music is not for public either, it is still >> possible to >> hear a lute in a trio facing each other in a small room, but the >> audience >> won't hear a thing except the mistakes. > It's hard to believe for me, considering more then 20 lute duets, I am NOT opposed to duets, BTW. Especially Charlie's and mine. > 150 trios with liuto obligato, and some 50 concerti which were > advertise by the J.G.I.Breitkopf firm in their 1760, 1761, and 1770 > catalogues. I suspect these concerti were intended for more or less private consumption. > Moreover, several 17th and 18th C. generations of lutenists were > playing BC on the d-minor tuning, for what there is a documentation -- > no place here to cite... Kropfgans was one of the latest, who was > especialy priced for that job in oratorios (!) and Hiller operettas in > Leipzig in 1760's. I don't think there will be any documentation found attesting that they enjoyed doing that. > > I'm convinced the world was definitely softer in those days. There is no doubt. Our ears are literally irreparably damaged by R&R. RT
Re: Thoroughbass Playing ...
On Tuesday, Mar 23, 2004, at 14:40 Europe/Warsaw, Roman Turovsky wrote: .. > IMO: Baroque Lute is ill-suited to any group endeavor, excepted > accompanying > a single voice singing maximum at mezza voce. It is destined to be a > PRIVATE > instrument, like clavichord, as I said elsewhere. What is private and what is public in terms of 18th C. and 21st C. --? Very complicated matter, indeed. Where would you then situate a CD recording as a musical ''performance''. All parameters has changed since 1700/1800 so phonography could perhaps be considered as a modern equivalent to the pre-romantic chamber performances??? > Existence of fine chamber music with Baroque Lute does not disprove > this, > for it makes for a painful listening experience. Instruments smother > the > lute, making audible only wrong/sour notes, or rhythmic mistakes. .. or performers are still not that good as Reusner, Weiss and Hagen .. or modern ''baroque'' string players are unable for the true compromise (but they are always happy for a compromise in the oposite direction). In fact a lute faces a similar problem as the baroque traverso flute... IMO > Anyway such chamber music is not for public either, it is still > possible to > hear a lute in a trio facing each other in a small room, but the > audience > won't hear a thing except the mistakes. It's hard to believe for me, considering more then 20 lute duets, over 150 trios with liuto obligato, and some 50 concerti which were advertise by the J.G.I.Breitkopf firm in their 1760, 1761, and 1770 catalogues. Moreover, several 17th and 18th C. generations of lutenists were playing BC on the d-minor tuning, for what there is a documentation -- no place here to cite... Kropfgans was one of the latest, who was especialy priced for that job in oratorios (!) and Hiller operettas in Leipzig in 1760's. I'm convinced the world was definitely softer in those days. - - - - - - - - Beside, Roman, would you please chack with your SPs -- @verizon.net>, @att.net> and @polyhymnion.org>, why they block ALL messages from @wp.pl. Please, do not give me another try, just ask THEM. Jurek
Re: Thoroughbass Playing ...
> At 21:47 22-03-2004 -0500, Roman Turovsky wrote: >>> I was wondering if the Baroque Lute D minor tuning is/was ever used for > Bass >>> Continuo playing? >>> Tim Mills >> A number of people do it, including myself, although I don't like the idea. >> RT > Sounds strange. Please explain. > Arne. IMO: Baroque Lute is ill-suited to any group endeavor, excepted accompanying a single voice singing maximum at mezza voce. It is destined to be a PRIVATE instrument, like clavichord, as I said elsewhere. Existence of fine chamber music with Baroque Lute does not disprove this, for it makes for a painful listening experience. Instruments smother the lute, making audible only wrong/sour notes, or rhythmic mistakes. Anyway such chamber music is not for public either, it is still possible to hear a lute in a trio facing each other in a small room, but the audience won't hear a thing except the mistakes. RT __ Roman M. Turovsky http://turovsky.org http://polyhymnion.org
Re: Thoroughbass Playing ...
At 21:47 22-03-2004 -0500, Roman Turovsky wrote: >> I was wondering if the Baroque Lute D minor tuning is/was ever used for Bass >> Continuo playing? >> Tim Mills >A number of people do it, including myself, although I don't like the idea. >RT Sounds strange. Please explain. Also, how did Merville tune his instrument? Arne.
Re: Thoroughbass Playing ...
> I was wondering if the Baroque Lute D minor tuning is/was ever used for Bass > Continuo playing? > Tim Mills A number of people do it, including myself, although I don't like the idea. RT
Re: Thoroughbass Playing ...
"Tim Mills" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: > I was wondering if the Baroque Lute D minor tuning is/was ever used for Bass > Continuo playing? see Fundamenta der Lautenmusique, available from the German Lute Society. http://www.lautengesellschaft.de It is an earl 18th century continuo playing tutor for the 11c D minor baroque lute. Text in English, Latin and German. -- Best wishes, Mathias Mathias Roesel, Grosze Annenstrasze 5, 28199 Bremen, Deutschland/ Germany, T/F +49 - 421 - 165 49 97, Fax +49 1805 060 334 480 67, E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Thoroughbass Playing ...
Dear Tim: It is suspected that the theorbo that S.L. Weiss played in the Dresden Opera was in fact a large theorbo-lute in d-minor tuning. More recently, Richard Stone has done some continuo with a d-minor lute. Yours, Jim "Tim Mills" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> com> cc: Subject: Thoroughbass Playing ... 03/21/2004 01:49 PM I was wondering if the Baroque Lute D minor tuning is/was ever used for Bass Continuo playing? Tim Mills Denver
