Re: Greek Fonts Part 3 - Günter
On 2009-12-02, Brian Bosse wrote:
You mentioned that I could wait for 1.6.5 to come out, but I would
rather not.
You also mentioned to copy the file =91unicodesymbols=92
from the system from the system LYXDIR to my personal lyx-dir and apply
a patch. I am on a Windows XP system, and found the file under
C:\Program Files\LyX16\Resources. I am not sure where to copy this
file. (Specifically, I do not know what you mean by the distinction
between the system LYXDIR and my personal lyx-dir.)
You might search for this information on the LyX wiki. I don't know
about the file layout under Windows. However, you can also patch the
original file at the original place (make a backup first (e.g. copy to
unicodesymbols.bak)).
Also, I do not know how to apply the patch. What are the steps that I
need to do to apply the patch?
If you have the patch command, things are easy. In a D0S-box (or
whatever this is called in newer Win versions), type patch -h for help.
If not, you can insert the appended Greek Extended block into the
original file (just before # general punctuation)
via drag-and-drop.
I noticed another patch that seems to be a correction to the first
patch. Should I apply that instead?
No. I the carxxx patch is the one that works without further changes to LyX.
Or go the save way and use utf8x (ucs enhance) latex encoding and mark
the Greek text parts as Greek.
Günter
#
# Greek extended
#
# Call character directly if present in LGR (to enable kerning), use
input-ligature else
0x1f00 \\textgreek{\\char130}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ALPHA WITH PSILI
0x1f01 \\textgreek{\\char129}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ALPHA WITH DASIA
0x1f02 \\textgreek{\\char139}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ALPHA WITH PSILI AND VARIA
0x1f03 \\textgreek{\\char131}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ALPHA WITH DASIA AND VARIA
0x1f04 \\textgreek{\\char138}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ALPHA WITH PSILI AND OXIA
0x1f05 \\textgreek{\\char137}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ALPHA WITH DASIA AND OXIA
0x1f06 \\textgreek{\\char146}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ALPHA WITH PSILI AND PERISPOMENI
0x1f07 \\textgreek{\\char145}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ALPHA WITH DASIA AND PERISPOMENI
0x1f08 \\textgreek{A} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
ALPHA WITH PSILI
0x1f09 \\textgreek{A} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
ALPHA WITH DASIA
0x1f0a \\textgreek{`A} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
ALPHA WITH PSILI AND VARIA
0x1f0b \\textgreek{`A} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
ALPHA WITH DASIA AND VARIA
0x1f0c \\textgreek{'A} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
ALPHA WITH PSILI AND OXIA
0x1f0d \\textgreek{'A} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
ALPHA WITH DASIA AND OXIA
0x1f0e \\textgreek{\\char126A} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
ALPHA WITH PSILI AND PERISPOMENI
0x1f0f \\textgreek{\\char126A} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
ALPHA WITH DASIA AND PERISPOMENI
0x1f10 \\textgreek{\\char226}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
EPSILON WITH PSILI
0x1f11 \\textgreek{\\char225}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
EPSILON WITH DASIA
0x1f12 \\textgreek{\\char235}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
EPSILON WITH PSILI AND VARIA
0x1f13 \\textgreek{\\char227}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
EPSILON WITH DASIA AND VARIA
0x1f14 \\textgreek{\\char234}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
EPSILON WITH PSILI AND OXIA
0x1f15 \\textgreek{\\char233}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
EPSILON WITH DASIA AND OXIA
0x1f18 \\textgreek{E} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
EPSILON WITH PSILI
0x1f19 \\textgreek{E} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
EPSILON WITH DASIA
0x1f1a \\textgreek{`E} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
EPSILON WITH PSILI AND VARIA
0x1f1b \\textgreek{`E} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
EPSILON WITH DASIA AND VARIA
0x1f1c \\textgreek{'E} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
EPSILON WITH PSILI AND OXIA
0x1f1d \\textgreek{'E} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
EPSILON WITH DASIA AND OXIA
0x1f20 \\textgreek{\\char154}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ETA WITH PSILI
0x1f21 \\textgreek{\\char153}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ETA WITH DASIA
0x1f22 \\textgreek{\\char171}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ETA WITH PSILI AND VARIA
0x1f23 \\textgreek{\\char163}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ETA WITH DASIA AND VARIA
0x1f24 \\textgreek{\\char162}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ETA WITH PSILI AND OXIA
0x1f25 \\textgreek{\\char161}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ETA WITH DASIA AND OXIA
0x1f26 \\textgreek{\\char170}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ETA WITH PSILI AND PERISPOMENI
0x1f27 \\textgreek{\\char169}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ETA WITH DASIA AND PERISPOMENI
0x1f28 \\textgreek{H} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
ETA WITH PSILI
0x1f29
Re: Greek Fonts Part 3 - Günter
On 2009-12-02, Brian Bosse wrote:
You mentioned that I could wait for 1.6.5 to come out, but I would
rather not.
You also mentioned to copy the file =91unicodesymbols=92
from the system from the system LYXDIR to my personal lyx-dir and apply
a patch. I am on a Windows XP system, and found the file under
C:\Program Files\LyX16\Resources. I am not sure where to copy this
file. (Specifically, I do not know what you mean by the distinction
between the system LYXDIR and my personal lyx-dir.)
You might search for this information on the LyX wiki. I don't know
about the file layout under Windows. However, you can also patch the
original file at the original place (make a backup first (e.g. copy to
unicodesymbols.bak)).
Also, I do not know how to apply the patch. What are the steps that I
need to do to apply the patch?
If you have the patch command, things are easy. In a D0S-box (or
whatever this is called in newer Win versions), type patch -h for help.
If not, you can insert the appended Greek Extended block into the
original file (just before # general punctuation)
via drag-and-drop.
I noticed another patch that seems to be a correction to the first
patch. Should I apply that instead?
No. I the carxxx patch is the one that works without further changes to LyX.
Or go the save way and use utf8x (ucs enhance) latex encoding and mark
the Greek text parts as Greek.
Günter
#
# Greek extended
#
# Call character directly if present in LGR (to enable kerning), use
input-ligature else
0x1f00 \\textgreek{\\char130}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ALPHA WITH PSILI
0x1f01 \\textgreek{\\char129}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ALPHA WITH DASIA
0x1f02 \\textgreek{\\char139}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ALPHA WITH PSILI AND VARIA
0x1f03 \\textgreek{\\char131}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ALPHA WITH DASIA AND VARIA
0x1f04 \\textgreek{\\char138}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ALPHA WITH PSILI AND OXIA
0x1f05 \\textgreek{\\char137}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ALPHA WITH DASIA AND OXIA
0x1f06 \\textgreek{\\char146}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ALPHA WITH PSILI AND PERISPOMENI
0x1f07 \\textgreek{\\char145}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ALPHA WITH DASIA AND PERISPOMENI
0x1f08 \\textgreek{A} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
ALPHA WITH PSILI
0x1f09 \\textgreek{A} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
ALPHA WITH DASIA
0x1f0a \\textgreek{`A} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
ALPHA WITH PSILI AND VARIA
0x1f0b \\textgreek{`A} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
ALPHA WITH DASIA AND VARIA
0x1f0c \\textgreek{'A} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
ALPHA WITH PSILI AND OXIA
0x1f0d \\textgreek{'A} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
ALPHA WITH DASIA AND OXIA
0x1f0e \\textgreek{\\char126A} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
ALPHA WITH PSILI AND PERISPOMENI
0x1f0f \\textgreek{\\char126A} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
ALPHA WITH DASIA AND PERISPOMENI
0x1f10 \\textgreek{\\char226}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
EPSILON WITH PSILI
0x1f11 \\textgreek{\\char225}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
EPSILON WITH DASIA
0x1f12 \\textgreek{\\char235}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
EPSILON WITH PSILI AND VARIA
0x1f13 \\textgreek{\\char227}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
EPSILON WITH DASIA AND VARIA
0x1f14 \\textgreek{\\char234}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
EPSILON WITH PSILI AND OXIA
0x1f15 \\textgreek{\\char233}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
EPSILON WITH DASIA AND OXIA
0x1f18 \\textgreek{E} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
EPSILON WITH PSILI
0x1f19 \\textgreek{E} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
EPSILON WITH DASIA
0x1f1a \\textgreek{`E} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
EPSILON WITH PSILI AND VARIA
0x1f1b \\textgreek{`E} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
EPSILON WITH DASIA AND VARIA
0x1f1c \\textgreek{'E} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
EPSILON WITH PSILI AND OXIA
0x1f1d \\textgreek{'E} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
EPSILON WITH DASIA AND OXIA
0x1f20 \\textgreek{\\char154}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ETA WITH PSILI
0x1f21 \\textgreek{\\char153}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ETA WITH DASIA
0x1f22 \\textgreek{\\char171}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ETA WITH PSILI AND VARIA
0x1f23 \\textgreek{\\char163}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ETA WITH DASIA AND VARIA
0x1f24 \\textgreek{\\char162}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ETA WITH PSILI AND OXIA
0x1f25 \\textgreek{\\char161}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ETA WITH DASIA AND OXIA
0x1f26 \\textgreek{\\char170}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ETA WITH PSILI AND PERISPOMENI
0x1f27 \\textgreek{\\char169}textgreek# GREEK SMALL LETTER
ETA WITH DASIA AND PERISPOMENI
0x1f28 \\textgreek{H} textgreek# GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
ETA WITH PSILI
0x1f29
Re: Greek Fonts Part 3 - Günter
On 2009-12-02, Brian Bosse wrote:
> You mentioned that I could wait for 1.6.5 to come out, but I would
> rather not.
> You also mentioned to copy the file =91unicodesymbols=92
> from the system from the system LYXDIR to my personal lyx-dir and apply
> a patch. I am on a Windows XP system, and found the file under
> C:\Program Files\LyX16\Resources. I am not sure where to copy this
> file. (Specifically, I do not know what you mean by the distinction
> between the system LYXDIR and my personal lyx-dir.)
You might search for this information on the LyX wiki. I don't know
about the file layout under Windows. However, you can also patch the
original file at the original place (make a backup first (e.g. copy to
unicodesymbols.bak)).
> Also, I do not know how to apply the patch. What are the steps that I
> need to do to apply the patch?
If you have the "patch" command, things are easy. In a D0S-box (or
whatever this is called in newer Win versions), type patch -h for help.
If not, you can insert the appended "Greek Extended" block into the
original file (just before "# general punctuation")
via drag-and-drop.
> I noticed another patch that seems to be a correction to the first
> patch. Should I apply that instead?
No. I the carxxx patch is the one that works without further changes to LyX.
Or go the save way and use utf8x (ucs enhance) latex encoding and mark
the Greek text parts as Greek.
Günter
#
# Greek extended
#
# Call character directly if present in LGR (to enable kerning), use
input-ligature else
0x1f00 "\\textgreek{\\char130}""textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK SMALL LETTER
ALPHA WITH PSILI
0x1f01 "\\textgreek{\\char129}""textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK SMALL LETTER
ALPHA WITH DASIA
0x1f02 "\\textgreek{\\char139}""textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK SMALL LETTER
ALPHA WITH PSILI AND VARIA
0x1f03 "\\textgreek{\\char131}""textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK SMALL LETTER
ALPHA WITH DASIA AND VARIA
0x1f04 "\\textgreek{\\char138}""textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK SMALL LETTER
ALPHA WITH PSILI AND OXIA
0x1f05 "\\textgreek{\\char137}""textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK SMALL LETTER
ALPHA WITH DASIA AND OXIA
0x1f06 "\\textgreek{\\char146}""textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK SMALL LETTER
ALPHA WITH PSILI AND PERISPOMENI
0x1f07 "\\textgreek{\\char145}""textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK SMALL LETTER
ALPHA WITH DASIA AND PERISPOMENI
0x1f08 "\\textgreek{>A}" "textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
ALPHA WITH PSILI
0x1f09 "\\textgreek{`A}" "textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
ALPHA WITH PSILI AND VARIA
0x1f0b "\\textgreek{<`A}" "textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
ALPHA WITH DASIA AND VARIA
0x1f0c "\\textgreek{>'A}" "textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
ALPHA WITH PSILI AND OXIA
0x1f0d "\\textgreek{<'A}" "textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
ALPHA WITH DASIA AND OXIA
0x1f0e "\\textgreek{>\\char126A}" "textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
ALPHA WITH PSILI AND PERISPOMENI
0x1f0f "\\textgreek{<\\char126A}" "textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
ALPHA WITH DASIA AND PERISPOMENI
0x1f10 "\\textgreek{\\char226}""textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK SMALL LETTER
EPSILON WITH PSILI
0x1f11 "\\textgreek{\\char225}""textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK SMALL LETTER
EPSILON WITH DASIA
0x1f12 "\\textgreek{\\char235}""textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK SMALL LETTER
EPSILON WITH PSILI AND VARIA
0x1f13 "\\textgreek{\\char227}""textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK SMALL LETTER
EPSILON WITH DASIA AND VARIA
0x1f14 "\\textgreek{\\char234}""textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK SMALL LETTER
EPSILON WITH PSILI AND OXIA
0x1f15 "\\textgreek{\\char233}""textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK SMALL LETTER
EPSILON WITH DASIA AND OXIA
0x1f18 "\\textgreek{>E}" "textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
EPSILON WITH PSILI
0x1f19 "\\textgreek{`E}" "textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
EPSILON WITH PSILI AND VARIA
0x1f1b "\\textgreek{<`E}" "textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
EPSILON WITH DASIA AND VARIA
0x1f1c "\\textgreek{>'E}" "textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
EPSILON WITH PSILI AND OXIA
0x1f1d "\\textgreek{<'E}" "textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK CAPITAL LETTER
EPSILON WITH DASIA AND OXIA
0x1f20 "\\textgreek{\\char154}""textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK SMALL LETTER
ETA WITH PSILI
0x1f21 "\\textgreek{\\char153}""textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK SMALL LETTER
ETA WITH DASIA
0x1f22 "\\textgreek{\\char171}""textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK SMALL LETTER
ETA WITH PSILI AND VARIA
0x1f23 "\\textgreek{\\char163}""textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK SMALL LETTER
ETA WITH DASIA AND VARIA
0x1f24 "\\textgreek{\\char162}""textgreek" "" "" "" # GREEK SMALL LETTER
ETA WITH PSILI AND OXIA
0x1f25
Re: Greek Fonts in LyX - Günter Milde
On 2009-12-01, Brian Bosse wrote: Here is one example. When I paste an copy the Greek Unicode text from = the =E2=80=9CAncient Greek=E2=80=9D entry on Wikipedia, the grave = accents and the circumflex simply show up as a box in LyX The accents or characters with accents? You need a screen-font that supports the Greek extended characters. Both, Plato and Homer work fine here with LyX 1.6.4 and the DejaVu fonts. and then when = I go to export it to PDF or use the DVI I get the following error = message=E2=80=A6 Could not find LaTeX command for character '=E1=BD=B0' (code point = 0x1f70) I had to realize that the Greek-extended patch is not yet in 1.6.4. So either you * wait for 1.6.5 * copy the file unicodesymbols from the system LYXDIR to your personal lyx-dir (~/.lyx in Unix) and apply the patch http://www.lyx.org/trac/attachment/ticket/4997/unicodesymbols-greek-extended-charxxx.patch * set the language to polytonic greek and the encoding to utf8x (see http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg72834.html) Some characters of your document are probably not representable in the = chosen encoding. Changing the document encoding to utf8 could help. This is a misleading hint. Changing to utf8 will almost never help in this case, as fontencs' utf8 supports only a small subset of UTF-8 characters (far less than LyX itself). Instead, utf8x should be used: DocumentSettings Language Encoding [x] Other: Unicode (ucs-enhanced) (utf8x) Günter
Greek Fonts Part 3 - Günter
Hello Günter, I am still no sure how to respond in this list. Every time I click the Reply Via Email button I get Not Found - The document you were looking for was not found. Oh well. :-( Please forgive my lack of etiquette. You mentioned that I could wait for 1.6.5 to come out, but I would rather not. You also mentioned to copy the file unicodesymbols from the system from the system LYXDIR to my personal lyx-dir and apply a patch. I am on a Windows XP system, and found the file under C:\Program Files\LyX16\Resources. I am not sure where to copy this file. (Specifically, I do not know what you mean by the distinction between the system LYXDIR and my personal lyx-dir.) Also, I do not know how to apply the patch. What are the steps that I need to do to apply the patch? I noticed another patch that seems to be a correction to the first patch. Should I apply that instead? Thank you for your patience and all of your help. I am sorry to be such a bother. Sincerely, Brian
Re: Greek Fonts in LyX - Günter Milde
On 2009-12-01, Brian Bosse wrote: Here is one example. When I paste an copy the Greek Unicode text from = the =E2=80=9CAncient Greek=E2=80=9D entry on Wikipedia, the grave = accents and the circumflex simply show up as a box in LyX The accents or characters with accents? You need a screen-font that supports the Greek extended characters. Both, Plato and Homer work fine here with LyX 1.6.4 and the DejaVu fonts. and then when = I go to export it to PDF or use the DVI I get the following error = message=E2=80=A6 Could not find LaTeX command for character '=E1=BD=B0' (code point = 0x1f70) I had to realize that the Greek-extended patch is not yet in 1.6.4. So either you * wait for 1.6.5 * copy the file unicodesymbols from the system LYXDIR to your personal lyx-dir (~/.lyx in Unix) and apply the patch http://www.lyx.org/trac/attachment/ticket/4997/unicodesymbols-greek-extended-charxxx.patch * set the language to polytonic greek and the encoding to utf8x (see http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg72834.html) Some characters of your document are probably not representable in the = chosen encoding. Changing the document encoding to utf8 could help. This is a misleading hint. Changing to utf8 will almost never help in this case, as fontencs' utf8 supports only a small subset of UTF-8 characters (far less than LyX itself). Instead, utf8x should be used: DocumentSettings Language Encoding [x] Other: Unicode (ucs-enhanced) (utf8x) Günter
Greek Fonts Part 3 - Günter
Hello Günter, I am still no sure how to respond in this list. Every time I click the Reply Via Email button I get Not Found - The document you were looking for was not found. Oh well. :-( Please forgive my lack of etiquette. You mentioned that I could wait for 1.6.5 to come out, but I would rather not. You also mentioned to copy the file unicodesymbols from the system from the system LYXDIR to my personal lyx-dir and apply a patch. I am on a Windows XP system, and found the file under C:\Program Files\LyX16\Resources. I am not sure where to copy this file. (Specifically, I do not know what you mean by the distinction between the system LYXDIR and my personal lyx-dir.) Also, I do not know how to apply the patch. What are the steps that I need to do to apply the patch? I noticed another patch that seems to be a correction to the first patch. Should I apply that instead? Thank you for your patience and all of your help. I am sorry to be such a bother. Sincerely, Brian
Re: Greek Fonts in LyX - Günter Milde
On 2009-12-01, Brian Bosse wrote: > Here is one example. When I paste an copy the Greek Unicode text from = > the =E2=80=9CAncient Greek=E2=80=9D entry on Wikipedia, the grave = > accents and the circumflex simply show up as a box in LyX The accents or characters with accents? You need a screen-font that supports the Greek extended characters. Both, Plato and Homer work fine here with LyX 1.6.4 and the DejaVu fonts. > and then when = I go to export it to PDF or use the DVI I get the > following error = message=E2=80=A6 > Could not find LaTeX command for character '=E1=BD=B0' (code point = > 0x1f70) I had to realize that the Greek-extended patch is not yet in 1.6.4. So either you * wait for 1.6.5 * copy the file unicodesymbols from the system LYXDIR to your personal lyx-dir (~/.lyx in Unix) and apply the patch http://www.lyx.org/trac/attachment/ticket/4997/unicodesymbols-greek-extended-charxxx.patch * set the language to polytonic greek and the encoding to utf8x (see http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg72834.html) > Some characters of your document are probably not representable in the = > chosen encoding. > Changing the document encoding to utf8 could help. This is a misleading hint. Changing to utf8 will almost never help in this case, as fontencs' utf8 supports only a small subset of UTF-8 characters (far less than LyX itself). Instead, utf8x should be used: Document>Settings Language Encoding [x] Other: Unicode (ucs-enhanced) (utf8x) Günter
Greek Fonts Part 3 - Günter
Hello Günter, I am still no sure how to respond in this list. Every time I click the Reply Via Email button I get Not Found - The document you were looking for was not found. Oh well. :-( Please forgive my lack of etiquette. You mentioned that I could wait for 1.6.5 to come out, but I would rather not. You also mentioned to copy the file unicodesymbols from the system from the system LYXDIR to my personal lyx-dir and apply a patch. I am on a Windows XP system, and found the file under C:\Program Files\LyX16\Resources. I am not sure where to copy this file. (Specifically, I do not know what you mean by the distinction between the system LYXDIR and my personal lyx-dir.) Also, I do not know how to apply the patch. What are the steps that I need to do to apply the patch? I noticed another patch that seems to be a correction to the first patch. Should I apply that instead? Thank you for your patience and all of your help. I am sorry to be such a bother. Sincerely, Brian
Greek Fonts in LyX - Günter Mild e
Hello Günter,
Thank you for your response. I kept getting an error trying to respond through
the list. So, I am trying it this way. You asked…
Strange: It should work out of the box if you insert the proper
Unicode chars. (Be more specific about what does not work if you need
help.)
Here is one example. When I paste an copy the Greek Unicode text from the
“Ancient Greek” entry on Wikipedia, the grave accents and the circumflex simply
show up as a box in LyX and then when I go to export it to PDF or use the DVI I
get the following error message…
Could not find LaTeX command for character 'ὰ' (code point 0x1f70)
Some characters of your document are probably not representable in the chosen
encoding.
Changing the document encoding to utf8 could help.
I then change the encoding to utf8 and I get the following error message…
Package inputenc Error: Unicode char \u8:Ï€ not set up for use with LaTeX.
Ï€
ολλὰ\textgreek{c} δ’ ἰφθίμου\textgreek{c} ψυχὰ\t...
Any help would be very appreciated.
Brian
Greek Fonts in LyX - Günter Mild e
Hello Günter,
Thank you for your response. I kept getting an error trying to respond through
the list. So, I am trying it this way. You asked…
Strange: It should work out of the box if you insert the proper
Unicode chars. (Be more specific about what does not work if you need
help.)
Here is one example. When I paste an copy the Greek Unicode text from the
“Ancient Greek” entry on Wikipedia, the grave accents and the circumflex simply
show up as a box in LyX and then when I go to export it to PDF or use the DVI I
get the following error message…
Could not find LaTeX command for character 'ὰ' (code point 0x1f70)
Some characters of your document are probably not representable in the chosen
encoding.
Changing the document encoding to utf8 could help.
I then change the encoding to utf8 and I get the following error message…
Package inputenc Error: Unicode char \u8:Ï€ not set up for use with LaTeX.
Ï€
ολλὰ\textgreek{c} δ’ ἰφθίμου\textgreek{c} ψυχὰ\t...
Any help would be very appreciated.
Brian
Greek Fonts in LyX - Günter Mild e
Hello Günter,
Thank you for your response. I kept getting an error trying to respond through
the list. So, I am trying it this way. You asked…
>Strange: It should work out of the box if you insert the proper
>Unicode chars. (Be more specific about what does not work if you need
>help.)
Here is one example. When I paste an copy the Greek Unicode text from the
“Ancient Greek” entry on Wikipedia, the grave accents and the circumflex simply
show up as a box in LyX and then when I go to export it to PDF or use the DVI I
get the following error message…
Could not find LaTeX command for character 'ὰ' (code point 0x1f70)
Some characters of your document are probably not representable in the chosen
encoding.
Changing the document encoding to utf8 could help.
I then change the encoding to utf8 and I get the following error message…
Package inputenc Error: Unicode char \u8:Ï€ not set up for use with LaTeX.
Ï€
ολλὰ\textgreek{c} δ’ ἰφθίμου\textgreek{c} ψυχὰ\t...
Any help would be very appreciated.
Brian
Re: Greek Fonts in LyX
On 2009-11-28, Brian Bosse wrote: I am brand new to LyX, and am trying to figure out how to add Greek text to my documents (with proper accents, etc...). Search for Greek at http://wiki.lyx.org My papers are written in English but I often use Biblical Greek. Even though I have spent many hours trying to figure this out, I am no closer than when I began.I am sure due to my ignorance. Strange: It should work out of the box if you insert the proper Unicode chars. (Be more specific about what does not work if you need help.) Günter
Re: Greek Fonts in LyX
On 2009-11-28, Brian Bosse wrote: I am brand new to LyX, and am trying to figure out how to add Greek text to my documents (with proper accents, etc...). Search for Greek at http://wiki.lyx.org My papers are written in English but I often use Biblical Greek. Even though I have spent many hours trying to figure this out, I am no closer than when I began.I am sure due to my ignorance. Strange: It should work out of the box if you insert the proper Unicode chars. (Be more specific about what does not work if you need help.) Günter
Re: Greek Fonts in LyX
On 2009-11-28, Brian Bosse wrote: > I am brand new to LyX, and am trying to figure out how to add Greek text to > my documents (with proper accents, etc...). Search for Greek at http://wiki.lyx.org > My papers are written in English > but I often use Biblical Greek. Even though I have spent many hours trying > to figure this out, I am no closer than when I began.I am sure due to my > ignorance. Strange: It should work out of the box if you insert the proper Unicode chars. (Be more specific about what does not work if you need help.) Günter
Greek Fonts in LyX
Hello Everyone, I am brand new to LyX, and am trying to figure out how to add Greek text to my documents (with proper accents, etc...). My papers are written in English but I often use Biblical Greek. Even though I have spent many hours trying to figure this out, I am no closer than when I began.I am sure due to my ignorance. Whatever explanations I find addressing the problem are over my head and/or not detailed enough for me to follow. Can someone give me step-by-step directions for setting up LyX so that I can utilize Greek (with proper accents, etc...) in my papers? I have LyX 1.6.4.1 installed with MiKTeX 2.7. Thank you for your consideration. Sincerely, Brian Bosse
Greek Fonts in LyX
Hello Everyone, I am brand new to LyX, and am trying to figure out how to add Greek text to my documents (with proper accents, etc...). My papers are written in English but I often use Biblical Greek. Even though I have spent many hours trying to figure this out, I am no closer than when I began.I am sure due to my ignorance. Whatever explanations I find addressing the problem are over my head and/or not detailed enough for me to follow. Can someone give me step-by-step directions for setting up LyX so that I can utilize Greek (with proper accents, etc...) in my papers? I have LyX 1.6.4.1 installed with MiKTeX 2.7. Thank you for your consideration. Sincerely, Brian Bosse
Greek Fonts in LyX
Hello Everyone, I am brand new to LyX, and am trying to figure out how to add Greek text to my documents (with proper accents, etc...). My papers are written in English but I often use Biblical Greek. Even though I have spent many hours trying to figure this out, I am no closer than when I began.I am sure due to my ignorance. Whatever explanations I find addressing the problem are over my head and/or not detailed enough for me to follow. Can someone give me step-by-step directions for setting up LyX so that I can utilize Greek (with proper accents, etc...) in my papers? I have LyX 1.6.4.1 installed with MiKTeX 2.7. Thank you for your consideration. Sincerely, Brian Bosse
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 13.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote: On 13 Jun 2008, G. Milde wrote: On 12.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote: In answer to your previous comments: I tried setting the keyboard to Greek, but it doesn't do anything. Looking at the greek.kmap file I see that it doesn't really contain any redefinitions, unlike the one for vim, which does, so I wouldn't expect it to have much effect. You could consider setting up an alternative (utf8-ready) greek.kmap. However I rather suggest to switch the keyboard layout at the X-Windows level. Using a desktop manager might work. I don't use Gnome or KBD - just Icewm. But my wife is using Ubuntu with Gnome and I'll have a look to see if it is possible to make that change the characters - I've found some information on Google. There are plenty of applications for this that do not depend on Gnome or KDE, e.g. xkbsel, gkrellm-xkb, xxkb, just browse your distributions package list for programs with xkb in their name. Günter
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 13.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote: On 13 Jun 2008, G. Milde wrote: On 12.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote: In answer to your previous comments: I tried setting the keyboard to Greek, but it doesn't do anything. Looking at the greek.kmap file I see that it doesn't really contain any redefinitions, unlike the one for vim, which does, so I wouldn't expect it to have much effect. You could consider setting up an alternative (utf8-ready) greek.kmap. However I rather suggest to switch the keyboard layout at the X-Windows level. Using a desktop manager might work. I don't use Gnome or KBD - just Icewm. But my wife is using Ubuntu with Gnome and I'll have a look to see if it is possible to make that change the characters - I've found some information on Google. There are plenty of applications for this that do not depend on Gnome or KDE, e.g. xkbsel, gkrellm-xkb, xxkb, just browse your distributions package list for programs with xkb in their name. Günter
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 13.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote: > On 13 Jun 2008, G. Milde wrote: > > On 12.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote: > In answer to your previous comments: I tried setting the keyboard to > Greek, but it doesn't do anything. Looking at the greek.kmap file I see > that it doesn't really contain any redefinitions, unlike the one for > vim, which does, so I wouldn't expect it to have much effect. You could consider setting up an alternative (utf8-ready) greek.kmap. However I rather suggest to switch the keyboard layout at the X-Windows level. > Using a desktop manager might work. I don't use Gnome or KBD - just > Icewm. But my wife is using Ubuntu with Gnome and I'll have a look to > see if it is possible to make that change the characters - I've found > some information on Google. There are plenty of applications for this that do not depend on Gnome or KDE, e.g. xkbsel, gkrellm-xkb, xxkb, just browse your distributions package list for programs with "xkb" in their name. Günter
Re: greek fonts
On 6/8/08, Pavel Sanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what about to setup some wiki page sumarizing greek+lyx issues? I planned to do this in some near future, but prefered to wait for some (more) feedback from the list and give myself some more search-time, before doing so. i setup the wiki page with references, but don't have time to polish it now. http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Greek pavel
Re: greek fonts
On 6/8/08, Pavel Sanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what about to setup some wiki page sumarizing greek+lyx issues? I planned to do this in some near future, but prefered to wait for some (more) feedback from the list and give myself some more search-time, before doing so. i setup the wiki page with references, but don't have time to polish it now. http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Greek pavel
Re: greek fonts
> On 6/8/08, Pavel Sanda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > what about to setup some wiki page sumarizing greek+lyx issues? > > > I planned to do this in some near future, but prefered to wait for > some (more) feedback from the list and give myself some more > search-time, before doing so. i setup the wiki page with references, but don't have time to polish it now. http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/Greek pavel
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 12.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote: On 12 Jun 2008, G. Milde wrote: A bit of background to all this: my wife is Greek and needs to type Greek occasionally; she is also a purist about accents etc. (Byzantine enthusiast). She is not happy seeing non-Greek characters on screen. In this case, a greek keyboard layout should solve the problem. Which OS are you using? If Linux, which window manager or desktop environment? E.g. with KDE it is simple to set up alternative keyboard layouts that can be switched clicking on a button in the taskbar. Alternatively to the system-level keybord layout, you can use the keyboard customization in LyX. See section 4.4 of HelpCustomization (from reading it, I gues that you cannot switch keymaps easily from inside a running LyX, though). To stress the comparing with German, where e.g. a is converted to ä in the output (but not in LyX). I never use this feature as my keyboard has an 'ä' key at an easy accessible position. This way I have ä in both, LyX and printout without any problems. Günter
Re: FW: greek fonts
Van: G. Milde [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 12.06.08, Ad Meskens wrote: Unfortunately, this does not work. The hyphenation does not materialize. Could you elaborate a bit? I was looking for Greek (polytonic) -- polutonikogreek which is not present (unfortunately) but it seems to work with Greek as well. Does it work with this patch to LYXDIR/languages and setting language to Greek (polytonic)? --- /usr/share/lyx/languages2008-05-14 11:36:44.0 +0200 +++ /home/milde/.lyx/languages 2008-06-11 13:09:27.0 +0200 @@ -36,6 +36,7 @@ german german Germanfalse iso8859-15 de_DE ngerman ngermanGerman (new spelling) false iso8859-15 de_DE greek greek Greek false iso8859-7 el_GR +polutonikogreek polutonikogreekGreek (polytonic) false iso8859-7 el_GR hebrew hebrew Hebrewtrue cp1255 he_IL #hungarian hungarian Hungarian false iso8859-2 hu_HU irish irish Irish false iso8859-15 ga_IE Günter
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 12.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote: Yes, I do have dejavu (ttf-dejavu) but I don't know how to tell lyx to use it - it doesn't appear as a choice. But I'm not sure that what I am trying to do is possible in Lyx (see my reply to Gunter below). 1. Does DejaVu appear as a choice in other applications (abiword, ooffice, gucharmap, specimen, ...) 2. In contrast to the document fonts (for printout), the on-screen fonts are set with ToolsPreferencesLook and FeelScreen Fonts. Günter
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 13 Jun 2008, G. Milde wrote: On 12.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote: Yes, I do have dejavu (ttf-dejavu) but I don't know how to tell lyx to use it - it doesn't appear as a choice. But I'm not sure that what I am trying to do is possible in Lyx (see my reply to Gunter below). 1. Does DejaVu appear as a choice in other applications (abiword, ooffice, gucharmap, specimen, ...) 2. In contrast to the document fonts (for printout), the on-screen fonts are set with ToolsPreferencesLook and FeelScreen Fonts. Günter I do have Dejavu in LyX now - I'm not sure why it wasn't appearing previously. In answer to your previous comments: I tried setting the keyboard to Greek, but it doesn't do anything. Looking at the greek.kmap file I see that it doesn't really contain any redefinitions, unlike the one for vim, which does, so I wouldn't expect it to have much effect. Using a desktop manager might work. I don't use Gnome or KBD - just Icewm. But my wife is using Ubuntu with Gnome and I'll have a look to see if it is possible to make that change the characters - I've found some information on Google. Anthony -- Anthony Campbell - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews, and sceptical articles)
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
It is not just the accents but also hyphenation patterns etc.
The distinction is similar to german and ngerman (i.e. old and new
spelling), only that the reform in Greece was 20 years earlier).
OTOH, it can be a big timesave if you can input strange characters as a
combination of ASCII chars. Comparable to the input of math, where I
would not like to search for an integral sign in a unicode chart every
time I need an integral. This is what I like about the WYSIWYM feature:
input and on-screen rendering are optimized for editing but printout is
optimized for a good reading experimence.
* Hyphenation and babel generated strings (like Chapter or Table of
Contents) depend on the setting of greek vs. polutonikogreek.
Just greek language is *not* enough!
i have just tried it and don't see what you mean. i took
polutonikogreek-test-campbell.lyx
added Part environment once in Greek once in polutonikogreek languages as
implicit
language and in both cases i got greek translation of Part and title.
that when accent-tilde is used with some char, it does not produce
'single' character but it produces combined unicode character (i.e.
accent char+normal char). iirc this is correct from the unicode point
of view - single accented char is equivalent to combining char + normal
letter. this works on the screen, however utf8x is not able to decode
the second case unless we use \unicodecombine macro in tex output.
This it the situation with accent-tilde under utf8 input encodings
(utf8 as well as utf8x) where a combining-char + char is translated to
combining-char{char}.
In traditional 7 or 8 bit encodings, it is exported to LaTex as
\accent{char} which works well with greek but results in wrong
output with polutonikogreek.
is there some reason to use 7-8 bit encodings when we have utf8x?
Conclusion
--
please comment on:
1. LyX handling of combining-chars (whether input via accent-* lfuns or
other means) needs fixing -- independently of Greek support.
I'd like to continue discussion of combining-chars in a separate
thread.
i agree, but it would be better to move it on devel list.
2. LyX should support the language variant polutonikogreek.
+ Consesus abaout the GUI name is needed. (Suggestion Greek (polytonic))
+ add a line to LYXDIR/languages (patch exists)
+ the GUI name needs to be translated into all supported languages
(easy but some work to do)
above points are not a problem.
+ The tilde (~) is re-defined as an accent char in polutonikogreek
(similar to in german).
i see it problematic (in ideological sense). do we use such a 'hackish' mode in
any other language settings? i know Uwe was fiddling with support of exotic
languages so i would wait also for his voice about this matter once he's back.
pavel
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 13.06.08, Pavel Sanda wrote:
* Hyphenation and babel generated strings (like Chapter or Table of
Contents) depend on the setting of greek vs. polutonikogreek.
Just greek language is *not* enough!
i have just tried it and don't see what you mean. i took
polutonikogreek-test-campbell.lyx added Part environment once in
Greek once in polutonikogreek languages as implicit language and in
both cases i got greek translation of Part and title.
Just have a look at the definition of the names in greek.ldf and you
will see the different definitions for polutonikogreek::
\let\captionspolutonikogreek\captionsgreek
\addto\captionspolutonikogreek{%
\def\refname{Anafor`es}%
\def\indexname{Euret'hrio}%
\def\figurename{Sq~hma}%
\def\headtoname{Pr`os}%
\def\alsoname{bl'epe ep'ishs}%
\def\proofname{Ap'odeixh}%
}
(finding out the definition for monotonic greek is left as an exercise
to the reader ;-)
that when accent-tilde is used with some char, it does not produce
'single' character but it produces combined unicode character (i.e.
accent char+normal char). iirc this is correct from the unicode point
of view - single accented char is equivalent to combining char + normal
letter. this works on the screen, however utf8x is not able to decode
the second case unless we use \unicodecombine macro in tex output.
This it the situation with accent-tilde under utf8 input encodings
(utf8 as well as utf8x) where a combining-char + char is translated to
combining-char{char}.
In traditional 7 or 8 bit encodings, it is exported to LaTex as
\accent{char} which works well with greek but results in wrong
output with polutonikogreek.
is there some reason to use 7-8 bit encodings when we have utf8x?
Several:
* keep to latex standard instead of manually setting an encoding in lyx
* compatibility, no need to install the ucs package
* speed and memory usage
* correct handling of combining chars e.g. produced by lfuns accent-*.
Disadvantage:
* unicode chars from the Greek Extended table do not work.
However, you can use the active chars defined by polutonikogreek
in combination with normal greek letters to get accented chars.
Günter
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 12.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote: On 12 Jun 2008, G. Milde wrote: A bit of background to all this: my wife is Greek and needs to type Greek occasionally; she is also a purist about accents etc. (Byzantine enthusiast). She is not happy seeing non-Greek characters on screen. In this case, a greek keyboard layout should solve the problem. Which OS are you using? If Linux, which window manager or desktop environment? E.g. with KDE it is simple to set up alternative keyboard layouts that can be switched clicking on a button in the taskbar. Alternatively to the system-level keybord layout, you can use the keyboard customization in LyX. See section 4.4 of HelpCustomization (from reading it, I gues that you cannot switch keymaps easily from inside a running LyX, though). To stress the comparing with German, where e.g. a is converted to ä in the output (but not in LyX). I never use this feature as my keyboard has an 'ä' key at an easy accessible position. This way I have ä in both, LyX and printout without any problems. Günter
Re: FW: greek fonts
Van: G. Milde [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 12.06.08, Ad Meskens wrote: Unfortunately, this does not work. The hyphenation does not materialize. Could you elaborate a bit? I was looking for Greek (polytonic) -- polutonikogreek which is not present (unfortunately) but it seems to work with Greek as well. Does it work with this patch to LYXDIR/languages and setting language to Greek (polytonic)? --- /usr/share/lyx/languages2008-05-14 11:36:44.0 +0200 +++ /home/milde/.lyx/languages 2008-06-11 13:09:27.0 +0200 @@ -36,6 +36,7 @@ german german Germanfalse iso8859-15 de_DE ngerman ngermanGerman (new spelling) false iso8859-15 de_DE greek greek Greek false iso8859-7 el_GR +polutonikogreek polutonikogreekGreek (polytonic) false iso8859-7 el_GR hebrew hebrew Hebrewtrue cp1255 he_IL #hungarian hungarian Hungarian false iso8859-2 hu_HU irish irish Irish false iso8859-15 ga_IE Günter
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 12.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote: Yes, I do have dejavu (ttf-dejavu) but I don't know how to tell lyx to use it - it doesn't appear as a choice. But I'm not sure that what I am trying to do is possible in Lyx (see my reply to Gunter below). 1. Does DejaVu appear as a choice in other applications (abiword, ooffice, gucharmap, specimen, ...) 2. In contrast to the document fonts (for printout), the on-screen fonts are set with ToolsPreferencesLook and FeelScreen Fonts. Günter
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 13 Jun 2008, G. Milde wrote: On 12.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote: Yes, I do have dejavu (ttf-dejavu) but I don't know how to tell lyx to use it - it doesn't appear as a choice. But I'm not sure that what I am trying to do is possible in Lyx (see my reply to Gunter below). 1. Does DejaVu appear as a choice in other applications (abiword, ooffice, gucharmap, specimen, ...) 2. In contrast to the document fonts (for printout), the on-screen fonts are set with ToolsPreferencesLook and FeelScreen Fonts. Günter I do have Dejavu in LyX now - I'm not sure why it wasn't appearing previously. In answer to your previous comments: I tried setting the keyboard to Greek, but it doesn't do anything. Looking at the greek.kmap file I see that it doesn't really contain any redefinitions, unlike the one for vim, which does, so I wouldn't expect it to have much effect. Using a desktop manager might work. I don't use Gnome or KBD - just Icewm. But my wife is using Ubuntu with Gnome and I'll have a look to see if it is possible to make that change the characters - I've found some information on Google. Anthony -- Anthony Campbell - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews, and sceptical articles)
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
It is not just the accents but also hyphenation patterns etc.
The distinction is similar to german and ngerman (i.e. old and new
spelling), only that the reform in Greece was 20 years earlier).
OTOH, it can be a big timesave if you can input strange characters as a
combination of ASCII chars. Comparable to the input of math, where I
would not like to search for an integral sign in a unicode chart every
time I need an integral. This is what I like about the WYSIWYM feature:
input and on-screen rendering are optimized for editing but printout is
optimized for a good reading experimence.
* Hyphenation and babel generated strings (like Chapter or Table of
Contents) depend on the setting of greek vs. polutonikogreek.
Just greek language is *not* enough!
i have just tried it and don't see what you mean. i took
polutonikogreek-test-campbell.lyx
added Part environment once in Greek once in polutonikogreek languages as
implicit
language and in both cases i got greek translation of Part and title.
that when accent-tilde is used with some char, it does not produce
'single' character but it produces combined unicode character (i.e.
accent char+normal char). iirc this is correct from the unicode point
of view - single accented char is equivalent to combining char + normal
letter. this works on the screen, however utf8x is not able to decode
the second case unless we use \unicodecombine macro in tex output.
This it the situation with accent-tilde under utf8 input encodings
(utf8 as well as utf8x) where a combining-char + char is translated to
combining-char{char}.
In traditional 7 or 8 bit encodings, it is exported to LaTex as
\accent{char} which works well with greek but results in wrong
output with polutonikogreek.
is there some reason to use 7-8 bit encodings when we have utf8x?
Conclusion
--
please comment on:
1. LyX handling of combining-chars (whether input via accent-* lfuns or
other means) needs fixing -- independently of Greek support.
I'd like to continue discussion of combining-chars in a separate
thread.
i agree, but it would be better to move it on devel list.
2. LyX should support the language variant polutonikogreek.
+ Consesus abaout the GUI name is needed. (Suggestion Greek (polytonic))
+ add a line to LYXDIR/languages (patch exists)
+ the GUI name needs to be translated into all supported languages
(easy but some work to do)
above points are not a problem.
+ The tilde (~) is re-defined as an accent char in polutonikogreek
(similar to in german).
i see it problematic (in ideological sense). do we use such a 'hackish' mode in
any other language settings? i know Uwe was fiddling with support of exotic
languages so i would wait also for his voice about this matter once he's back.
pavel
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 13.06.08, Pavel Sanda wrote:
* Hyphenation and babel generated strings (like Chapter or Table of
Contents) depend on the setting of greek vs. polutonikogreek.
Just greek language is *not* enough!
i have just tried it and don't see what you mean. i took
polutonikogreek-test-campbell.lyx added Part environment once in
Greek once in polutonikogreek languages as implicit language and in
both cases i got greek translation of Part and title.
Just have a look at the definition of the names in greek.ldf and you
will see the different definitions for polutonikogreek::
\let\captionspolutonikogreek\captionsgreek
\addto\captionspolutonikogreek{%
\def\refname{Anafor`es}%
\def\indexname{Euret'hrio}%
\def\figurename{Sq~hma}%
\def\headtoname{Pr`os}%
\def\alsoname{bl'epe ep'ishs}%
\def\proofname{Ap'odeixh}%
}
(finding out the definition for monotonic greek is left as an exercise
to the reader ;-)
that when accent-tilde is used with some char, it does not produce
'single' character but it produces combined unicode character (i.e.
accent char+normal char). iirc this is correct from the unicode point
of view - single accented char is equivalent to combining char + normal
letter. this works on the screen, however utf8x is not able to decode
the second case unless we use \unicodecombine macro in tex output.
This it the situation with accent-tilde under utf8 input encodings
(utf8 as well as utf8x) where a combining-char + char is translated to
combining-char{char}.
In traditional 7 or 8 bit encodings, it is exported to LaTex as
\accent{char} which works well with greek but results in wrong
output with polutonikogreek.
is there some reason to use 7-8 bit encodings when we have utf8x?
Several:
* keep to latex standard instead of manually setting an encoding in lyx
* compatibility, no need to install the ucs package
* speed and memory usage
* correct handling of combining chars e.g. produced by lfuns accent-*.
Disadvantage:
* unicode chars from the Greek Extended table do not work.
However, you can use the active chars defined by polutonikogreek
in combination with normal greek letters to get accented chars.
Günter
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 12.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote: > On 12 Jun 2008, G. Milde wrote: > A bit of background to all this: my wife is Greek and needs to type > Greek occasionally; she is also a purist about accents etc. (Byzantine > enthusiast). She is not happy seeing non-Greek characters on screen. In this case, a greek keyboard layout should solve the problem. Which OS are you using? If Linux, which window manager or desktop environment? E.g. with KDE it is simple to set up alternative keyboard layouts that can be switched clicking on a button in the taskbar. Alternatively to the system-level keybord layout, you can use the keyboard customization in LyX. See section 4.4 of Help>Customization (from reading it, I gues that you cannot switch keymaps easily from inside a running LyX, though). To stress the comparing with German, > > where e.g. "a is converted to ä in the output (but not in LyX). I never use this feature as my keyboard has an 'ä' key at an easy accessible position. This way I have ä in both, LyX and printout without any problems. Günter
Re: FW: greek fonts
> Van: G. Milde [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 12.06.08, Ad Meskens wrote: > Unfortunately, this does not work. The hyphenation does not materialize. Could you elaborate a bit? > I was looking for "Greek (polytonic)" --> polutonikogreek which is not > present (unfortunately) but it seems to work with "Greek" as well. Does it work with this patch to LYXDIR/languages and setting language to Greek (polytonic)? --- /usr/share/lyx/languages2008-05-14 11:36:44.0 +0200 +++ /home/milde/.lyx/languages 2008-06-11 13:09:27.0 +0200 @@ -36,6 +36,7 @@ german german "German"false iso8859-15 de_DE "" ngerman ngerman"German (new spelling)" false iso8859-15 de_DE "" greek greek "Greek" false iso8859-7 el_GR "" +polutonikogreek polutonikogreek"Greek (polytonic)" false iso8859-7 el_GR "" hebrew hebrew "Hebrew"true cp1255 he_IL "" #hungarian hungarian "Hungarian" false iso8859-2 hu_HU "" irish irish "Irish" false iso8859-15 ga_IE "" Günter
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 12.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote: > Yes, I do have dejavu (ttf-dejavu) but I don't know how to tell lyx to > use it - it doesn't appear as a choice. But I'm not sure that what I am > trying to do is possible in Lyx (see my reply to Gunter below). 1. Does DejaVu appear as a choice in other applications (abiword, ooffice, gucharmap, specimen, ...) 2. In contrast to the document fonts (for printout), the on-screen fonts are set with Tools>Preferences>Look and Feel>Screen Fonts. Günter
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 13 Jun 2008, G. Milde wrote: > On 12.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote: > > > Yes, I do have dejavu (ttf-dejavu) but I don't know how to tell lyx to > > use it - it doesn't appear as a choice. But I'm not sure that what I am > > trying to do is possible in Lyx (see my reply to Gunter below). > > 1. Does DejaVu appear as a choice in other applications (abiword, >ooffice, gucharmap, specimen, ...) > > 2. In contrast to the document fonts (for printout), the on-screen >fonts are set with Tools>Preferences>Look and Feel>Screen Fonts. > > Günter I do have Dejavu in LyX now - I'm not sure why it wasn't appearing previously. In answer to your previous comments: I tried setting the keyboard to Greek, but it doesn't do anything. Looking at the greek.kmap file I see that it doesn't really contain any redefinitions, unlike the one for vim, which does, so I wouldn't expect it to have much effect. Using a desktop manager might work. I don't use Gnome or KBD - just Icewm. But my wife is using Ubuntu with Gnome and I'll have a look to see if it is possible to make that change the characters - I've found some information on Google. Anthony -- Anthony Campbell - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews, and sceptical articles)
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
> It is not just the accents but also hyphenation patterns etc.
>
> The distinction is similar to german and ngerman (i.e. old and new
> spelling), only that the reform in Greece was 20 years earlier).
>
> OTOH, it can be a big timesave if you can input "strange" characters as a
> combination of ASCII chars. Comparable to the input of math, where I
> would not like to search for an integral sign in a unicode chart every
> time I need an integral. This is what I like about the WYSIWYM feature:
> input and on-screen rendering are optimized for editing but printout is
> optimized for a good reading experimence.
>
> * Hyphenation and babel generated strings (like "Chapter" or "Table of
> Contents") depend on the setting of "greek" vs. "polutonikogreek".
>
> Just greek language is *not* enough!
i have just tried it and don't see what you mean. i took
polutonikogreek-test-campbell.lyx
added "Part" environment once in "Greek" once in "polutonikogreek" languages as
implicit
language and in both cases i got greek translation of "Part" and title.
> > that when accent-tilde is used with some char, it does not produce
> > 'single' character but it produces combined unicode character (i.e.
> > accent char+normal char). iirc this is correct from the unicode point
> > of view - single accented char is equivalent to combining char + normal
> > letter. this works on the screen, however utf8x is not able to decode
> > the second case unless we use \unicodecombine macro in tex output.
>
> This it the situation with accent-tilde under utf8 input encodings
> (utf8 as well as utf8x) where a combining-char + char is translated to
> "{}".
>
> In "traditional" 7 or 8 bit encodings, it is exported to LaTex as
> "\{}" which works well with "greek" but results in wrong
> output with "polutonikogreek".
is there some reason to use 7-8 bit encodings when we have utf8x?
> Conclusion
> --
> please comment on:
>
> 1. LyX handling of combining-chars (whether input via accent-* lfuns or
>other means) needs fixing -- independently of Greek support.
>
>I'd like to continue discussion of combining-chars in a separate
>thread.
i agree, but it would be better to move it on devel list.
> 2. LyX should support the language variant polutonikogreek.
>
>+ Consesus abaout the GUI name is needed. (Suggestion Greek (polytonic))
>
>+ add a line to LYXDIR/languages (patch exists)
>
>+ the GUI name needs to be translated into all supported languages
> (easy but some work to do)
above points are not a problem.
>+ The tilde (~) is re-defined as an accent char in polutonikogreek
> (similar to " in german).
i see it problematic (in ideological sense). do we use such a 'hackish' mode in
any other language settings? i know Uwe was fiddling with support of exotic
languages so i would wait also for his voice about this matter once he's back.
pavel
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 13.06.08, Pavel Sanda wrote:
> > * Hyphenation and babel generated strings (like "Chapter" or "Table of
> > Contents") depend on the setting of "greek" vs. "polutonikogreek".
> >
> > Just greek language is *not* enough!
> i have just tried it and don't see what you mean. i took
> polutonikogreek-test-campbell.lyx added "Part" environment once in
> "Greek" once in "polutonikogreek" languages as implicit language and in
> both cases i got greek translation of "Part" and title.
Just have a look at the definition of the names in greek.ldf and you
will see the different definitions for polutonikogreek::
\let\captionspolutonikogreek\captionsgreek
\addto\captionspolutonikogreek{%
\def\refname{>Anafor`es}%
\def\indexname{Eep'ishs}%
\def\proofname{>Ap'odeixh}%
}
(finding out the definition for monotonic greek is left as an exercise
to the reader ;-)
> > > that when accent-tilde is used with some char, it does not produce
> > > 'single' character but it produces combined unicode character (i.e.
> > > accent char+normal char). iirc this is correct from the unicode point
> > > of view - single accented char is equivalent to combining char + normal
> > > letter. this works on the screen, however utf8x is not able to decode
> > > the second case unless we use \unicodecombine macro in tex output.
> >
> > This it the situation with accent-tilde under utf8 input encodings
> > (utf8 as well as utf8x) where a combining-char + char is translated to
> > "{}".
> >
> > In "traditional" 7 or 8 bit encodings, it is exported to LaTex as
> > "\{}" which works well with "greek" but results in wrong
> > output with "polutonikogreek".
> is there some reason to use 7-8 bit encodings when we have utf8x?
Several:
* keep to latex standard instead of manually setting an encoding in lyx
* compatibility, no need to install the ucs package
* speed and memory usage
* correct handling of combining chars e.g. produced by lfuns accent-*.
Disadvantage:
* unicode chars from the Greek Extended table do not work.
However, you can use the "active chars" defined by polutonikogreek
in combination with "normal" greek letters to get accented chars.
Günter
Re: greek fonts
On 11.06.08, Pavel Sanda wrote: But this is inconsistent with handling of other extensions. Editing in LyX works even without any tex distribution, still reconfigure checks availability of fonts, classes and packages -- but not inputenc nor ucs. which is a different story then prohibit this encoding ;) Indeed. My memory told me that choosing non-installed packages or classes was impossible in former lyx versions. Now, there is a prominent warning in all these cases: * the class name is preceeded by Unavailable: and a message window pops up remainding you again that LyX will not be able to produce output. * missing fonts are marked with (not installed) in the font choosing dialogue. But missing input encodings are not marked (are they?) -- this is what I call inconsistency. Günter
Re: greek fonts
But missing input encodings are not marked (are they?) -- this is what I call inconsistency. yes :) p
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 12 Jun 2008, Pavel Sanda wrote: i would like to summarize the my understanding of the problems i encountered, please comment on: 1. Screen painting. after installing unicode fonts for X displaying ancient greek letters works in lyx without problems. [snip] Not here. I've set language to Greek and I've tried every available encoding, including utf8x, but the characters on-screen never change at all. And I've installed all the relevant font packages I can find. I'm using TexLive. Unless there is some way to get this to work there is no real point in fiddling with the rest of it. Anthony -- Anthony Campbell - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews, and sceptical articles)
Re: greek fonts
On 11.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote:
On 11 Jun 2008, G. Milde wrote:
On 11.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote:
Looks like I shall have to give up trying to write Greek in Lyx and
Latex for the time being, unless someone fixes it.
Could you try with the two attached latex files?
I attach the dvi files so that you can see what happens.
The dvi output looks exactly as I expect:
OK: polytonikogreek document works partly;
The non-working example is \~{h} (as indicated in the document).
This is either a bug or a feature of polutonikogreek.def.
See the discussion in the attached document (new version of the
polutoniko example).
greek document works almost correctly except that the second line
doesn't print any tildes at all.
This is the normal behaviour of LaTeX: the tilde ~ is used as
non-breakable space.
In contrast to polutonikogreek, greek does not change its meaning (as the
tilde accent is no longer used in modern Greek writing.
Conclusion:
There are many options and some snares for typesetting Greek with
LaTeX or LyX. The particular choice depends on the user case.
Günter
\documentclass[polutonikogreek,german,british]{article}
\usepackage{mathpazo}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage[utf8,iso-8859-7]{inputenc}
\usepackage{parskip}
\usepackage{babel}
\begin{document}
\selectlanguage{british}%
\inputencoding{utf8}
\section*{polutonikogreek document}
A polytonic Greek example:
{\selectlanguage{polutonikogreek}%
\inputencoding{iso-8859-7}
this is me~ant t\^o b`e in Gre'ek
}
\section{input variants}
Using the tilde key in LyX prints a tilde before the letter:
{\inputencoding{iso-8859-7}
\foreignlanguage{polutonikogreek}{\textasciitilde{}h.}
}
Using a protected space in LyX or a tilde as ERT
works in polutonik (classic) Greek but replaces
the tilde with non-breakable space in modern Greek:
{\inputencoding{iso-8859-7}\foreignlanguage{polutonikogreek}{~h, ~h.}
}
Preceding the tilde with a backslash (as ERT) works in both, polutonik
and monotonik (modern) Greek:
{\inputencoding{iso-8859-7}\foreignlanguage{polutonikogreek}{\~h.} }
Putting braces around the accented letter (as done by the accent-tilde
LFUN) only works in monotonik (modern) Greek:
{\inputencoding{iso-8859-7}\foreignlanguage{polutonikogreek}{\~{h}.} }
\subsection*{ Why is the accented eta written wrong in polutonikogreek if
braces are used?}
Guess: the \verb|~h| to
{\inputencoding{iso-8859-7}\foreignlanguage{polutonikogreek}{~h}
} replacement is implemented as a ligature. Braces break this ligature.
However, all four input variants: \verb|ä, a, \a and \{a}| work with
Umlauts in the german option of babel:
\foreignlanguage{german}{utf8-char: ä Ä}
\foreignlanguage{german}{the german.sty way: a A}
\foreignlanguage{german}{with accent: \a \A}
\foreignlanguage{german}{with accent and braces: \{a} \{A}}
So, is the behaviour in polutonikogreek a bug or a feature?
\end{document}
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 12 Jun 2008, Pavel Sanda wrote: i would like to summarize the my understanding of the problems i encountered, please comment on: 1. Screen painting. after installing unicode fonts for X displaying ancient greek letters works in lyx without problems. [snip] Not here. I've set language to Greek and I've tried every available encoding, including utf8x, but the characters on-screen never change at all. And I've installed all the relevant font packages I can find. I'm using TexLive. no, no, this is misunderstanding. screen painting has _nothing_ to do with with latex or utf8x encoding etc. it has something to do the way you have set fonts for your X-windows. i don't know how things are done on debian, but in gentoo only installing dejavu fonts was enough (the reconfiguration of X is part of instalation procedure.) Do you have these fonts installed? whats the output of: ls -l /usr/share/fonts/dejavu/ pavel
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 12.06.08, Pavel Sanda wrote:
Question to the developers: Would it be possible to pass the tilde '~'
to LaTeX as-is if the language is set to polutonikogreek?
please correct me if i'm wrong, but i think this is wrong direction.
how will you determine nonbreak. space vs tilde accent then?
The same way as polutonikogreek.def: \nobreakspace vs. ~
before sinking into this issue i still don't understand why polutonikogreek
is needed, see below.
It is not just the accents but also hyphenation patterns etc.
The distinction is similar to german and ngerman (i.e. old and new
spelling), only that the reform in Greece was 20 years earlier).
OTOH, it can be a big timesave if you can input strange characters as a
combination of ASCII chars. Comparable to the input of math, where I
would not like to search for an integral sign in a unicode chart every
time I need an integral. This is what I like about the WYSIWYM feature:
input and on-screen rendering are optimized for editing but printout is
optimized for a good reading experimence.
i would like to summarize the my understanding of the problems i
encountered, please comment on:
1. Screen painting.
-
after installing unicode fonts for X displaying ancient greek letters
works in lyx without problems.
... if they are input as unicode chars.
2. LaTeX typeseting.
--
after installing unicode packages for tex fonts and input encoding
utf8x the documents with ancient greek letters obtained in document via
copy paste from e.g. wikipedia or through symbols dialog in lyx 1.6
work without problems, no switch to polutonikogreek needed, just greek
language is enough.
* unicode tex fonts is a problematic term, as standard TeX/LaTeX
currently does not handle unicode-encoded fonts.
There is an extended font encoding in Omega and full unicode support in
XeTeX.
However, many fonts exist parallel in a unicode encoding (as
OpenType, postscript or TrueType fonts) and as a set of virtual LaTeX
fonts. Examples are Latin Modern, Bera/Arev/DejaVu, Kerkis, or the
TeX-Gyre fonts.
Typesetting Greek with utf8x and (pdf)latex depends on the availability
of LGR encoded Greek fonts. Then, all greek unicode chars (including
the accented and double-accented ones) are typeset correctly.
So, I would formulate it as:
after installing the suitable fonts and the ucs package, documents with
accented Greek letters obtained via copy paste from (e.g. wikipedia)
or through symbols dialog (in lyx 1.6) work without problems if
DocumentSettingsLanguageEncoding is set to utf8x.
* Hyphenation and babel generated strings (like Chapter or Table of
Contents) depend on the setting of greek vs. polutonikogreek.
Just greek language is *not* enough!
3. Input of ancient greek letters into the document.
--
a) pasting the (whole) unicode character from outside works
b) using the keystroke of ~+char does not work - instead of accented
character we get two characters.
c) using lfun accent-tilde+char basically(*) works as far as screen
painting concerened, but fails badly once you try to typeset the
document.
the key issue is why 3c fails. guessing from the output the culprit is
that when accent-tilde is used with some char, it does not produce
'single' character but it produces combined unicode character (i.e.
accent char+normal char). iirc this is correct from the unicode point
of view - single accented char is equivalent to combining char + normal
letter. this works on the screen, however utf8x is not able to decode
the second case unless we use \unicodecombine macro in tex output.
This it the situation with accent-tilde under utf8 input encodings
(utf8 as well as utf8x) where a combining-char + char is translated to
combining-char{char}.
In traditional 7 or 8 bit encodings, it is exported to LaTex as
\accent{char} which works well with greek but results in wrong
output with polutonikogreek.
i see more ways how this could be fixed, but we should firstly agree
that THIS is the culprit.
It is one of the problems.
Conclusion
--
please comment on:
1. LyX handling of combining-chars (whether input via accent-* lfuns or
other means) needs fixing -- independently of Greek support.
I'd like to continue discussion of combining-chars in a separate
thread.
2. LyX should support the language variant polutonikogreek.
+ Consesus abaout the GUI name is needed. (Suggestion Greek (polytonic))
+ add a line to LYXDIR/languages (patch exists)
+ the GUI name needs to be translated into all supported languages
(easy but some work to do)
+ The tilde (~) is re-defined as an accent char in polutonikogreek
(similar to in german).
How should this be supported in LyX?
- not at all (input non-breakable space or ERT to get
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 12.06.08, Rune Schjellerup Philosof wrote: On some keyboard layouts ~ is a dead key by default (danish for instance). I wonder why tilde is a dead key on danish keyboards, we don't have any chars in our alphabet that use a tilde accent. The same holds for German. I guess someone once thought that tilde would only be used for languages, where it is an accent, and then defaulted it to dead? Then that someone thought wrong, or the one who chose ~ for homedir shortcut chose wrong :) This is why I set my keyboard layout to german (nodeadkeys) and I will not change this even if I would happen to write sometimes about el niño (or use classical Greek citations). In etc/xorg.conf: Option XkbVariantnodeadkeys but I do not know wheter the nodeadkeys variant is supported for Danish. Günter
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 12.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote: On 12 Jun 2008, Pavel Sanda wrote: i would like to summarize the my understanding of the problems i encountered, please comment on: 1. Screen painting. after installing unicode fonts for X displaying ancient greek letters works in lyx without problems. Not here. I've set language to Greek and I've tried every available encoding, including utf8x, but the characters on-screen never change at all. This is not about conversion but display: * If you paste polytonic Greek text from e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_diacritics, this should show up in greek letters with diacritics at the correct place. * If you input latin letters and ASCII-chars for diacritics following the convention of the greek language option of babel and set the language to greek, these will be converted to greek letters in the output only. This is the same level of support as for German, say where e.g. a is converted to ä in the output (but not in LyX). It differs from the handling of math symbols where a set of known symbol-commands like \alpha or \int are rendered as symbols in LyX. Unless there is some way to get this to work there is no real point in fiddling with the rest of it. If latin-greek input conversion is what you want, the way to go would be switching the keyboard layout, so LyX sees the correct unicode char whenever you press the right key or key-combo. This is similar to my use of a German keyboard layout in order to be able to input ä and ß at the expense of having to use AltGr-+ for the tilde ~. Alternatively, you might try OpenOffice with the Thessolonica extension: http://www.thessalonica.org.ru/en/thessalonica-ooo.html Günter
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 12 Jun 2008, Pavel Sanda wrote: On 12 Jun 2008, Pavel Sanda wrote: i would like to summarize the my understanding of the problems i encountered, please comment on: 1. Screen painting. after installing unicode fonts for X displaying ancient greek letters works in lyx without problems. [snip] Not here. I've set language to Greek and I've tried every available encoding, including utf8x, but the characters on-screen never change at all. And I've installed all the relevant font packages I can find. I'm using TexLive. no, no, this is misunderstanding. screen painting has _nothing_ to do with with latex or utf8x encoding etc. it has something to do the way you have set fonts for your X-windows. i don't know how things are done on debian, but in gentoo only installing dejavu fonts was enough (the reconfiguration of X is part of instalation procedure.) Do you have these fonts installed? whats the output of: ls -l /usr/share/fonts/dejavu/ pavel Yes, I do have dejavu (ttf-dejavu) but I don't know how to tell lyx to use it - it doesn't appear as a choice. But I'm not sure that what I am trying to do is possible in Lyx (see my reply to Gunter below). Anthony -- Anthony Campbell - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews, and sceptical articles)
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 12 Jun 2008, G. Milde wrote: This is not about conversion but display: * If you paste polytonic Greek text from e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_diacritics, this should show up in greek letters with diacritics at the correct place. * If you input latin letters and ASCII-chars for diacritics following the convention of the greek language option of babel and set the language to greek, these will be converted to greek letters in the output only. This is the same level of support as for German, say where e.g. a is converted to ä in the output (but not in LyX). It differs from the handling of math symbols where a set of known symbol-commands like \alpha or \int are rendered as symbols in LyX. [snip] Yes, this was the conclusion I was coming to myself. A bit of background to all this: my wife is Greek and needs to type Greek occasionally; she is also a purist about accents etc. (Byzantine enthusiast). She is not happy seeing non-Greek characters on screen. After quite a lot of work I managed to get vim (gvim) to show Greek characters on-screen and to print Greek via Latex, but she can't do it without help from me because it requires a familiarity with Latex which she doesn't have. I was hoping things might be simpler with Lyx but seemingly not. Thanks for the Thessalonica suggestion; it may be a viable alternative. Anthony -- Anthony Campbell - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews, and sceptical articles)
FW: greek fonts
Unfortunately, this does not work. The hyphenation does not materialize.
Ad
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: G. Milde [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Verzonden: maandag 9 juni 2008 8:58
Aan: Ad Meskens
Onderwerp: Re: greek fonts
On 8.06.08, Ad Meskens wrote:
There is however a problem when you want to write ancient Greek with
hyphens
etc; The betababel package and writing bcode in ERT works wonderfully.
However handling Dutch seems to be suppressed.
When you compile your LyX file, even though you have stated your language
is
Dutch (or another), the chapter headings will be in English, thus you will
have something like: 'Chapter 1 Dutch heading'
Does anyone know how to solve this problem???
You need to include Dutch as last in the list of language options to make
it the default language.
OTOH, I did not have problems with (a trial set of) accented Greek
letters in the attached example.
* The document language is set to German.
LyX passes this as default language to babel, resulting in Kapitel 1
Teste Gr...
This should work similarily with Dutch.
* I used latin modern fonts, one of the most comprehensive type 1
latex fonts available and part of any modern latex distro.
* The font encoding is set to utf8x, which uses 'ucs' to give the most
comprehensive unicode support available in standard latex
distributions.
* Greek text snippts have set the language tag to Greek with
EditText-StyleCustomLanguage
I was looking for Greek (polutonic) -- polutonicgreek which is not
present (unfortunately) but it seems to work with Greek as well.
* No special code in the preamble at all. No ERT.
Result:
1. LyX puts [greek,german] in the document preamble.
(At first, I was dissapointed to see that LyX doesnot let me specify
more than one language in the document settings. However, now I
realise that this is not needed: I just set the default language and
LyX will do the right thing as soon as I use more than one
language with EditText-StyleCustomLanguage.)
This results in German Chapter heading prefix (, Toc heading, ...) as
well as use of T1 (cork) encoded fonts (no problems with Umlauts and
es-zet ß.
2. LyX changes the font encoding to LGR for greek text. No need for
autofe or other specials beside setting the text language.
3. LyX calls babel if there is more than one langugage in the document
and puts text in another than the default language in a
\foreignlanguage{} command.
(This is customizable in the ToolsSettingsLanguages dialogue.)
Conclusion:
It should work reasonably well without extra efforts to mix a main
document language wiht examples in Greek (or Russian, say) with LyX and
the utf8x font encoding.
Documentation on the various utf8 font encodings is still missing.
Günter
greek-german-test.lyx
Description: application/lyx
RE: greek fonts
This does indeed work!
When I use \AtBeginDocument{\selectlanguage{dutch}} in the preamble, all
headings are in Dutch.
Thanks
Ad
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Liviu Andronic [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Verzonden: zondag 8 juni 2008 12:27
Aan: Ad Meskens
CC: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
Onderwerp: Re: greek fonts
On 6/8/08, Ad Meskens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There is however a problem when you want to write ancient Greek with
hyphens
etc; The betababel package and writing bcode in ERT works wonderfully.
However handling Dutch seems to be suppressed.
When you compile your LyX file, even though you have stated your language
is
Dutch (or another), the chapter headings will be in English, thus you
will
have something like: 'Chapter 1 Dutch heading'
Does anyone know how to solve this problem???
There was a recent discussion [1] on this, with no apparent solution.
This other relevant discussion [2] seems to offer a solution.
Regards,
Liviu
[1] http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg63778.html
[2] http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg63753.html
Re: greek fonts
On 11.06.08, Pavel Sanda wrote: But this is inconsistent with handling of other extensions. Editing in LyX works even without any tex distribution, still reconfigure checks availability of fonts, classes and packages -- but not inputenc nor ucs. which is a different story then prohibit this encoding ;) Indeed. My memory told me that choosing non-installed packages or classes was impossible in former lyx versions. Now, there is a prominent warning in all these cases: * the class name is preceeded by Unavailable: and a message window pops up remainding you again that LyX will not be able to produce output. * missing fonts are marked with (not installed) in the font choosing dialogue. But missing input encodings are not marked (are they?) -- this is what I call inconsistency. Günter
Re: greek fonts
But missing input encodings are not marked (are they?) -- this is what I call inconsistency. yes :) p
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 12 Jun 2008, Pavel Sanda wrote: i would like to summarize the my understanding of the problems i encountered, please comment on: 1. Screen painting. after installing unicode fonts for X displaying ancient greek letters works in lyx without problems. [snip] Not here. I've set language to Greek and I've tried every available encoding, including utf8x, but the characters on-screen never change at all. And I've installed all the relevant font packages I can find. I'm using TexLive. Unless there is some way to get this to work there is no real point in fiddling with the rest of it. Anthony -- Anthony Campbell - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews, and sceptical articles)
Re: greek fonts
On 11.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote:
On 11 Jun 2008, G. Milde wrote:
On 11.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote:
Looks like I shall have to give up trying to write Greek in Lyx and
Latex for the time being, unless someone fixes it.
Could you try with the two attached latex files?
I attach the dvi files so that you can see what happens.
The dvi output looks exactly as I expect:
OK: polytonikogreek document works partly;
The non-working example is \~{h} (as indicated in the document).
This is either a bug or a feature of polutonikogreek.def.
See the discussion in the attached document (new version of the
polutoniko example).
greek document works almost correctly except that the second line
doesn't print any tildes at all.
This is the normal behaviour of LaTeX: the tilde ~ is used as
non-breakable space.
In contrast to polutonikogreek, greek does not change its meaning (as the
tilde accent is no longer used in modern Greek writing.
Conclusion:
There are many options and some snares for typesetting Greek with
LaTeX or LyX. The particular choice depends on the user case.
Günter
\documentclass[polutonikogreek,german,british]{article}
\usepackage{mathpazo}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage[utf8,iso-8859-7]{inputenc}
\usepackage{parskip}
\usepackage{babel}
\begin{document}
\selectlanguage{british}%
\inputencoding{utf8}
\section*{polutonikogreek document}
A polytonic Greek example:
{\selectlanguage{polutonikogreek}%
\inputencoding{iso-8859-7}
this is me~ant t\^o b`e in Gre'ek
}
\section{input variants}
Using the tilde key in LyX prints a tilde before the letter:
{\inputencoding{iso-8859-7}
\foreignlanguage{polutonikogreek}{\textasciitilde{}h.}
}
Using a protected space in LyX or a tilde as ERT
works in polutonik (classic) Greek but replaces
the tilde with non-breakable space in modern Greek:
{\inputencoding{iso-8859-7}\foreignlanguage{polutonikogreek}{~h, ~h.}
}
Preceding the tilde with a backslash (as ERT) works in both, polutonik
and monotonik (modern) Greek:
{\inputencoding{iso-8859-7}\foreignlanguage{polutonikogreek}{\~h.} }
Putting braces around the accented letter (as done by the accent-tilde
LFUN) only works in monotonik (modern) Greek:
{\inputencoding{iso-8859-7}\foreignlanguage{polutonikogreek}{\~{h}.} }
\subsection*{ Why is the accented eta written wrong in polutonikogreek if
braces are used?}
Guess: the \verb|~h| to
{\inputencoding{iso-8859-7}\foreignlanguage{polutonikogreek}{~h}
} replacement is implemented as a ligature. Braces break this ligature.
However, all four input variants: \verb|ä, a, \a and \{a}| work with
Umlauts in the german option of babel:
\foreignlanguage{german}{utf8-char: ä Ä}
\foreignlanguage{german}{the german.sty way: a A}
\foreignlanguage{german}{with accent: \a \A}
\foreignlanguage{german}{with accent and braces: \{a} \{A}}
So, is the behaviour in polutonikogreek a bug or a feature?
\end{document}
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 12 Jun 2008, Pavel Sanda wrote: i would like to summarize the my understanding of the problems i encountered, please comment on: 1. Screen painting. after installing unicode fonts for X displaying ancient greek letters works in lyx without problems. [snip] Not here. I've set language to Greek and I've tried every available encoding, including utf8x, but the characters on-screen never change at all. And I've installed all the relevant font packages I can find. I'm using TexLive. no, no, this is misunderstanding. screen painting has _nothing_ to do with with latex or utf8x encoding etc. it has something to do the way you have set fonts for your X-windows. i don't know how things are done on debian, but in gentoo only installing dejavu fonts was enough (the reconfiguration of X is part of instalation procedure.) Do you have these fonts installed? whats the output of: ls -l /usr/share/fonts/dejavu/ pavel
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 12.06.08, Pavel Sanda wrote:
Question to the developers: Would it be possible to pass the tilde '~'
to LaTeX as-is if the language is set to polutonikogreek?
please correct me if i'm wrong, but i think this is wrong direction.
how will you determine nonbreak. space vs tilde accent then?
The same way as polutonikogreek.def: \nobreakspace vs. ~
before sinking into this issue i still don't understand why polutonikogreek
is needed, see below.
It is not just the accents but also hyphenation patterns etc.
The distinction is similar to german and ngerman (i.e. old and new
spelling), only that the reform in Greece was 20 years earlier).
OTOH, it can be a big timesave if you can input strange characters as a
combination of ASCII chars. Comparable to the input of math, where I
would not like to search for an integral sign in a unicode chart every
time I need an integral. This is what I like about the WYSIWYM feature:
input and on-screen rendering are optimized for editing but printout is
optimized for a good reading experimence.
i would like to summarize the my understanding of the problems i
encountered, please comment on:
1. Screen painting.
-
after installing unicode fonts for X displaying ancient greek letters
works in lyx without problems.
... if they are input as unicode chars.
2. LaTeX typeseting.
--
after installing unicode packages for tex fonts and input encoding
utf8x the documents with ancient greek letters obtained in document via
copy paste from e.g. wikipedia or through symbols dialog in lyx 1.6
work without problems, no switch to polutonikogreek needed, just greek
language is enough.
* unicode tex fonts is a problematic term, as standard TeX/LaTeX
currently does not handle unicode-encoded fonts.
There is an extended font encoding in Omega and full unicode support in
XeTeX.
However, many fonts exist parallel in a unicode encoding (as
OpenType, postscript or TrueType fonts) and as a set of virtual LaTeX
fonts. Examples are Latin Modern, Bera/Arev/DejaVu, Kerkis, or the
TeX-Gyre fonts.
Typesetting Greek with utf8x and (pdf)latex depends on the availability
of LGR encoded Greek fonts. Then, all greek unicode chars (including
the accented and double-accented ones) are typeset correctly.
So, I would formulate it as:
after installing the suitable fonts and the ucs package, documents with
accented Greek letters obtained via copy paste from (e.g. wikipedia)
or through symbols dialog (in lyx 1.6) work without problems if
DocumentSettingsLanguageEncoding is set to utf8x.
* Hyphenation and babel generated strings (like Chapter or Table of
Contents) depend on the setting of greek vs. polutonikogreek.
Just greek language is *not* enough!
3. Input of ancient greek letters into the document.
--
a) pasting the (whole) unicode character from outside works
b) using the keystroke of ~+char does not work - instead of accented
character we get two characters.
c) using lfun accent-tilde+char basically(*) works as far as screen
painting concerened, but fails badly once you try to typeset the
document.
the key issue is why 3c fails. guessing from the output the culprit is
that when accent-tilde is used with some char, it does not produce
'single' character but it produces combined unicode character (i.e.
accent char+normal char). iirc this is correct from the unicode point
of view - single accented char is equivalent to combining char + normal
letter. this works on the screen, however utf8x is not able to decode
the second case unless we use \unicodecombine macro in tex output.
This it the situation with accent-tilde under utf8 input encodings
(utf8 as well as utf8x) where a combining-char + char is translated to
combining-char{char}.
In traditional 7 or 8 bit encodings, it is exported to LaTex as
\accent{char} which works well with greek but results in wrong
output with polutonikogreek.
i see more ways how this could be fixed, but we should firstly agree
that THIS is the culprit.
It is one of the problems.
Conclusion
--
please comment on:
1. LyX handling of combining-chars (whether input via accent-* lfuns or
other means) needs fixing -- independently of Greek support.
I'd like to continue discussion of combining-chars in a separate
thread.
2. LyX should support the language variant polutonikogreek.
+ Consesus abaout the GUI name is needed. (Suggestion Greek (polytonic))
+ add a line to LYXDIR/languages (patch exists)
+ the GUI name needs to be translated into all supported languages
(easy but some work to do)
+ The tilde (~) is re-defined as an accent char in polutonikogreek
(similar to in german).
How should this be supported in LyX?
- not at all (input non-breakable space or ERT to get
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 12.06.08, Rune Schjellerup Philosof wrote: On some keyboard layouts ~ is a dead key by default (danish for instance). I wonder why tilde is a dead key on danish keyboards, we don't have any chars in our alphabet that use a tilde accent. The same holds for German. I guess someone once thought that tilde would only be used for languages, where it is an accent, and then defaulted it to dead? Then that someone thought wrong, or the one who chose ~ for homedir shortcut chose wrong :) This is why I set my keyboard layout to german (nodeadkeys) and I will not change this even if I would happen to write sometimes about el niño (or use classical Greek citations). In etc/xorg.conf: Option XkbVariantnodeadkeys but I do not know wheter the nodeadkeys variant is supported for Danish. Günter
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 12.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote: On 12 Jun 2008, Pavel Sanda wrote: i would like to summarize the my understanding of the problems i encountered, please comment on: 1. Screen painting. after installing unicode fonts for X displaying ancient greek letters works in lyx without problems. Not here. I've set language to Greek and I've tried every available encoding, including utf8x, but the characters on-screen never change at all. This is not about conversion but display: * If you paste polytonic Greek text from e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_diacritics, this should show up in greek letters with diacritics at the correct place. * If you input latin letters and ASCII-chars for diacritics following the convention of the greek language option of babel and set the language to greek, these will be converted to greek letters in the output only. This is the same level of support as for German, say where e.g. a is converted to ä in the output (but not in LyX). It differs from the handling of math symbols where a set of known symbol-commands like \alpha or \int are rendered as symbols in LyX. Unless there is some way to get this to work there is no real point in fiddling with the rest of it. If latin-greek input conversion is what you want, the way to go would be switching the keyboard layout, so LyX sees the correct unicode char whenever you press the right key or key-combo. This is similar to my use of a German keyboard layout in order to be able to input ä and ß at the expense of having to use AltGr-+ for the tilde ~. Alternatively, you might try OpenOffice with the Thessolonica extension: http://www.thessalonica.org.ru/en/thessalonica-ooo.html Günter
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 12 Jun 2008, Pavel Sanda wrote: On 12 Jun 2008, Pavel Sanda wrote: i would like to summarize the my understanding of the problems i encountered, please comment on: 1. Screen painting. after installing unicode fonts for X displaying ancient greek letters works in lyx without problems. [snip] Not here. I've set language to Greek and I've tried every available encoding, including utf8x, but the characters on-screen never change at all. And I've installed all the relevant font packages I can find. I'm using TexLive. no, no, this is misunderstanding. screen painting has _nothing_ to do with with latex or utf8x encoding etc. it has something to do the way you have set fonts for your X-windows. i don't know how things are done on debian, but in gentoo only installing dejavu fonts was enough (the reconfiguration of X is part of instalation procedure.) Do you have these fonts installed? whats the output of: ls -l /usr/share/fonts/dejavu/ pavel Yes, I do have dejavu (ttf-dejavu) but I don't know how to tell lyx to use it - it doesn't appear as a choice. But I'm not sure that what I am trying to do is possible in Lyx (see my reply to Gunter below). Anthony -- Anthony Campbell - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews, and sceptical articles)
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 12 Jun 2008, G. Milde wrote: This is not about conversion but display: * If you paste polytonic Greek text from e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_diacritics, this should show up in greek letters with diacritics at the correct place. * If you input latin letters and ASCII-chars for diacritics following the convention of the greek language option of babel and set the language to greek, these will be converted to greek letters in the output only. This is the same level of support as for German, say where e.g. a is converted to ä in the output (but not in LyX). It differs from the handling of math symbols where a set of known symbol-commands like \alpha or \int are rendered as symbols in LyX. [snip] Yes, this was the conclusion I was coming to myself. A bit of background to all this: my wife is Greek and needs to type Greek occasionally; she is also a purist about accents etc. (Byzantine enthusiast). She is not happy seeing non-Greek characters on screen. After quite a lot of work I managed to get vim (gvim) to show Greek characters on-screen and to print Greek via Latex, but she can't do it without help from me because it requires a familiarity with Latex which she doesn't have. I was hoping things might be simpler with Lyx but seemingly not. Thanks for the Thessalonica suggestion; it may be a viable alternative. Anthony -- Anthony Campbell - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews, and sceptical articles)
FW: greek fonts
Unfortunately, this does not work. The hyphenation does not materialize.
Ad
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: G. Milde [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Verzonden: maandag 9 juni 2008 8:58
Aan: Ad Meskens
Onderwerp: Re: greek fonts
On 8.06.08, Ad Meskens wrote:
There is however a problem when you want to write ancient Greek with
hyphens
etc; The betababel package and writing bcode in ERT works wonderfully.
However handling Dutch seems to be suppressed.
When you compile your LyX file, even though you have stated your language
is
Dutch (or another), the chapter headings will be in English, thus you will
have something like: 'Chapter 1 Dutch heading'
Does anyone know how to solve this problem???
You need to include Dutch as last in the list of language options to make
it the default language.
OTOH, I did not have problems with (a trial set of) accented Greek
letters in the attached example.
* The document language is set to German.
LyX passes this as default language to babel, resulting in Kapitel 1
Teste Gr...
This should work similarily with Dutch.
* I used latin modern fonts, one of the most comprehensive type 1
latex fonts available and part of any modern latex distro.
* The font encoding is set to utf8x, which uses 'ucs' to give the most
comprehensive unicode support available in standard latex
distributions.
* Greek text snippts have set the language tag to Greek with
EditText-StyleCustomLanguage
I was looking for Greek (polutonic) -- polutonicgreek which is not
present (unfortunately) but it seems to work with Greek as well.
* No special code in the preamble at all. No ERT.
Result:
1. LyX puts [greek,german] in the document preamble.
(At first, I was dissapointed to see that LyX doesnot let me specify
more than one language in the document settings. However, now I
realise that this is not needed: I just set the default language and
LyX will do the right thing as soon as I use more than one
language with EditText-StyleCustomLanguage.)
This results in German Chapter heading prefix (, Toc heading, ...) as
well as use of T1 (cork) encoded fonts (no problems with Umlauts and
es-zet ß.
2. LyX changes the font encoding to LGR for greek text. No need for
autofe or other specials beside setting the text language.
3. LyX calls babel if there is more than one langugage in the document
and puts text in another than the default language in a
\foreignlanguage{} command.
(This is customizable in the ToolsSettingsLanguages dialogue.)
Conclusion:
It should work reasonably well without extra efforts to mix a main
document language wiht examples in Greek (or Russian, say) with LyX and
the utf8x font encoding.
Documentation on the various utf8 font encodings is still missing.
Günter
greek-german-test.lyx
Description: application/lyx
RE: greek fonts
This does indeed work!
When I use \AtBeginDocument{\selectlanguage{dutch}} in the preamble, all
headings are in Dutch.
Thanks
Ad
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Liviu Andronic [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Verzonden: zondag 8 juni 2008 12:27
Aan: Ad Meskens
CC: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
Onderwerp: Re: greek fonts
On 6/8/08, Ad Meskens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There is however a problem when you want to write ancient Greek with
hyphens
etc; The betababel package and writing bcode in ERT works wonderfully.
However handling Dutch seems to be suppressed.
When you compile your LyX file, even though you have stated your language
is
Dutch (or another), the chapter headings will be in English, thus you
will
have something like: 'Chapter 1 Dutch heading'
Does anyone know how to solve this problem???
There was a recent discussion [1] on this, with no apparent solution.
This other relevant discussion [2] seems to offer a solution.
Regards,
Liviu
[1] http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg63778.html
[2] http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg63753.html
Re: greek fonts
On 11.06.08, Pavel Sanda wrote: > > But this is inconsistent with handling of other extensions. > > Editing in LyX works even without any tex distribution, still > > reconfigure checks availability of fonts, classes and packages -- > > but not inputenc nor ucs. > which is a different story then prohibit this encoding ;) Indeed. My memory told me that choosing non-installed packages or classes was impossible in former lyx versions. Now, there is a prominent warning in all these cases: * the class name is preceeded by "Unavailable: " and a message window pops up remainding you again that LyX will not be able to produce output. * missing fonts are marked with (not installed) in the font choosing dialogue. But missing input encodings are not marked (are they?) -- this is what I call inconsistency. Günter
Re: greek fonts
> But missing input encodings are not marked (are they?) -- this is what I > call inconsistency. yes :) p
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 12 Jun 2008, Pavel Sanda wrote: > > i would like to summarize the my understanding of the problems i encountered, > please comment on: > > 1. Screen painting. > after installing unicode fonts for X displaying ancient greek letters works > in lyx > without problems. > [snip] Not here. I've set "language" to Greek and I've tried every available encoding, including utf8x, but the characters on-screen never change at all. And I've installed all the relevant font packages I can find. I'm using TexLive. Unless there is some way to get this to work there is no real point in fiddling with the rest of it. Anthony -- Anthony Campbell - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews, and sceptical articles)
Re: greek fonts
On 11.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote:
> On 11 Jun 2008, G. Milde wrote:
> > On 11.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote:
> >
> > > Looks like I shall have to give up trying to write Greek in Lyx and
> > > Latex for the time being, unless someone fixes it.
> > Could you try with the two attached latex files?
> I attach the dvi files so that you can see what happens.
The dvi output looks exactly as I expect:
> OK: "polytonikogreek document" works partly;
The non-working example is \~{h} (as indicated in the document).
This is either a bug or a feature of polutonikogreek.def.
See the discussion in the attached document (new version of the
polutoniko example).
> "greek document" works almost correctly except that the second line
> doesn't print any tildes at all.
This is the normal behaviour of LaTeX: the tilde ~ is used as
non-breakable space.
In contrast to polutonikogreek, greek does not change its meaning (as the
tilde accent is no longer used in modern Greek writing.
Conclusion:
There are many options and some snares for typesetting Greek with
LaTeX or LyX. The particular choice depends on the user case.
Günter
\documentclass[polutonikogreek,german,british]{article}
\usepackage{mathpazo}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage[utf8,iso-8859-7]{inputenc}
\usepackage{parskip}
\usepackage{babel}
\begin{document}
\selectlanguage{british}%
\inputencoding{utf8}
\section*{polutonikogreek document}
A polytonic Greek example:
{\selectlanguage{polutonikogreek}%
\inputencoding{iso-8859-7}
this is me~ant t\^o b`e >in Gre'ek
}
\section{input variants}
Using the tilde key in LyX prints a tilde before the letter:
{\inputencoding{iso-8859-7}
\foreignlanguage{polutonikogreek}{\textasciitilde{}h.}
}
Using a protected space in LyX or a tilde as ERT
works in polutonik (classic) Greek but replaces
the tilde with non-breakable space in modern Greek:
{\inputencoding{iso-8859-7}\foreignlanguage{polutonikogreek}{~h, ~h.}
}
Preceding the tilde with a backslash (as ERT) works in both, polutonik
and monotonik (modern) Greek:
{\inputencoding{iso-8859-7}\foreignlanguage{polutonikogreek}{\~h.} }
Putting braces around the accented letter (as done by the accent-tilde
LFUN) only works in monotonik (modern) Greek:
{\inputencoding{iso-8859-7}\foreignlanguage{polutonikogreek}{\~{h}.} }
\subsection*{ Why is the accented eta written wrong in polutonikogreek if
braces are used?}
Guess: the \verb|~h| to
{\inputencoding{iso-8859-7}\foreignlanguage{polutonikogreek}{~h}
} replacement is implemented as a ligature. Braces break this ligature.
However, all four input variants: \verb|ä, "a, \"a and \"{a}| work with
Umlauts in the german option of babel:
\foreignlanguage{german}{utf8-char: ä Ä}
\foreignlanguage{german}{the german.sty way: "a "A}
\foreignlanguage{german}{with accent: \"a \"A}
\foreignlanguage{german}{with accent and braces: \"{a} \"{A}}
So, is the behaviour in polutonikogreek a bug or a feature?
\end{document}
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
> On 12 Jun 2008, Pavel Sanda wrote: > > > > i would like to summarize the my understanding of the problems i > > encountered, > > please comment on: > > > > 1. Screen painting. > > after installing unicode fonts for X displaying ancient greek letters works > > in lyx > > without problems. > > > > [snip] > > Not here. I've set "language" to Greek and I've tried every available > encoding, including utf8x, but the characters on-screen never change at > all. And I've installed all the relevant font packages I can find. I'm > using TexLive. no, no, this is misunderstanding. screen painting has _nothing_ to do with with latex or utf8x encoding etc. it has something to do the way you have set fonts for your X-windows. i don't know how things are done on debian, but in gentoo only installing dejavu fonts was enough (the reconfiguration of X is part of instalation procedure.) Do you have these fonts installed? whats the output of: ls -l /usr/share/fonts/dejavu/ pavel
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 12.06.08, Pavel Sanda wrote:
> > > > Question to the developers: Would it be possible to pass the tilde '~'
> > > > to LaTeX as-is if the language is set to polutonikogreek?
> >
> > > please correct me if i'm wrong, but i think this is wrong direction.
> > > how will you determine nonbreak. space vs tilde accent then?
> >
> > The same way as polutonikogreek.def: \nobreakspace vs. ~
> before sinking into this issue i still don't understand why polutonikogreek
> is needed, see below.
It is not just the accents but also hyphenation patterns etc.
The distinction is similar to german and ngerman (i.e. old and new
spelling), only that the reform in Greece was 20 years earlier).
OTOH, it can be a big timesave if you can input "strange" characters as a
combination of ASCII chars. Comparable to the input of math, where I
would not like to search for an integral sign in a unicode chart every
time I need an integral. This is what I like about the WYSIWYM feature:
input and on-screen rendering are optimized for editing but printout is
optimized for a good reading experimence.
> i would like to summarize the my understanding of the problems i
> encountered, please comment on:
> 1. Screen painting.
-
> after installing unicode fonts for X displaying ancient greek letters
> works in lyx without problems.
... if they are input as unicode chars.
> 2. LaTeX typeseting.
--
> after installing unicode packages for tex fonts and input encoding
> utf8x the documents with ancient greek letters obtained in document via
> copy & paste from e.g. wikipedia or through symbols dialog in lyx 1.6
> work without problems, no switch to polutonikogreek needed, just greek
> language is enough.
* "unicode tex fonts" is a problematic term, as standard TeX/LaTeX
currently does not handle unicode-encoded fonts.
There is an extended font encoding in Omega and full unicode support in
XeTeX.
However, many fonts exist parallel in a "unicode encoding" (as
OpenType, postscript or TrueType fonts) and as a set of virtual LaTeX
fonts. Examples are Latin Modern, Bera/Arev/DejaVu, Kerkis, or the
TeX-Gyre fonts.
Typesetting Greek with utf8x and (pdf)latex depends on the availability
of LGR encoded Greek fonts. Then, all greek unicode chars (including
the accented and double-accented ones) are typeset correctly.
So, I would formulate it as:
after installing the suitable fonts and the ucs package, documents with
accented Greek letters obtained via copy & paste from (e.g. wikipedia)
or through symbols dialog (in lyx 1.6) work without problems if
Document>Settings>Language>Encoding is set to utf8x.
* Hyphenation and babel generated strings (like "Chapter" or "Table of
Contents") depend on the setting of "greek" vs. "polutonikogreek".
Just greek language is *not* enough!
> 3. Input of ancient greek letters into the document.
--
> a) pasting the (whole) unicode character from outside works
> b) using the keystroke of ~+char does not work - instead of accented
> character we get two characters.
> c) using lfun accent-tilde+char basically(*) works as far as screen
> painting concerened, but fails badly once you try to typeset the
> document.
> the key issue is why 3c fails. guessing from the output the culprit is
> that when accent-tilde is used with some char, it does not produce
> 'single' character but it produces combined unicode character (i.e.
> accent char+normal char). iirc this is correct from the unicode point
> of view - single accented char is equivalent to combining char + normal
> letter. this works on the screen, however utf8x is not able to decode
> the second case unless we use \unicodecombine macro in tex output.
This it the situation with accent-tilde under utf8 input encodings
(utf8 as well as utf8x) where a combining-char + char is translated to
"{}".
In "traditional" 7 or 8 bit encodings, it is exported to LaTex as
"\{}" which works well with "greek" but results in wrong
output with "polutonikogreek".
> i see more ways how this could be fixed, but we should firstly agree
> that THIS is the culprit.
It is one of the problems.
Conclusion
--
please comment on:
1. LyX handling of combining-chars (whether input via accent-* lfuns or
other means) needs fixing -- independently of Greek support.
I'd like to continue discussion of combining-chars in a separate
thread.
2. LyX should support the language variant polutonikogreek.
+ Consesus abaout the GUI name is needed. (Suggestion Greek (polytonic))
+ add a line to LYXDI
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 12.06.08, Rune Schjellerup Philosof wrote: > On some keyboard layouts ~ is a dead key by default (danish for instance). > I wonder why tilde is a dead key on danish keyboards, we don't have any > chars in our alphabet that use a tilde accent. The same holds for German. > I guess someone once thought that tilde would only be used for > languages, where it is an accent, and then defaulted it to dead? > Then that someone thought wrong, or the one who chose ~ for homedir > shortcut chose wrong :) This is why I set my keyboard layout to german (nodeadkeys) and I will not change this even if I would happen to write sometimes about el niño (or use classical Greek citations). In etc/xorg.conf: Option "XkbVariant""nodeadkeys" but I do not know wheter the nodeadkeys variant is supported for Danish. Günter
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 12.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote: > On 12 Jun 2008, Pavel Sanda wrote: > > > > i would like to summarize the my understanding of the problems i > > encountered, please comment on: > > > > 1. Screen painting. > > after installing unicode fonts for X displaying ancient greek letters > > works in lyx without problems. > Not here. I've set "language" to Greek and I've tried every available > encoding, including utf8x, but the characters on-screen never change at > all. This is not about conversion but display: * If you paste polytonic Greek text from e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_diacritics, this should show up in greek letters with diacritics at the correct place. * If you input latin letters and ASCII-chars for diacritics following the convention of the "greek" language option of babel and set the language to "greek", these will be converted to greek letters in the output only. This is the same level of support as for German, say where e.g. "a is converted to ä in the output (but not in LyX). It differs from the handling of math symbols where a set of known symbol-commands like \alpha or \int are rendered as symbols in LyX. > Unless there is some way to get this to work there is no real point in > fiddling with the rest of it. If latin->greek input conversion is what you want, the way to go would be switching the keyboard layout, so LyX sees the correct unicode char whenever you press the "right" key or key-combo. This is similar to my use of a German keyboard layout in order to be able to input ä and ß at the expense of having to use AltGr-+ for the tilde ~. Alternatively, you might try OpenOffice with the Thessolonica extension: http://www.thessalonica.org.ru/en/thessalonica-ooo.html Günter
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 12 Jun 2008, Pavel Sanda wrote: > > On 12 Jun 2008, Pavel Sanda wrote: > > > > > > i would like to summarize the my understanding of the problems i > > > encountered, > > > please comment on: > > > > > > 1. Screen painting. > > > after installing unicode fonts for X displaying ancient greek letters > > > works in lyx > > > without problems. > > > > > > > [snip] > > > > Not here. I've set "language" to Greek and I've tried every available > > encoding, including utf8x, but the characters on-screen never change at > > all. And I've installed all the relevant font packages I can find. I'm > > using TexLive. > > no, no, this is misunderstanding. screen painting has _nothing_ to do with > with latex or utf8x encoding etc. it has something to do the way you have > set fonts for your X-windows. > > i don't know how things are done on debian, but in gentoo only installing > dejavu fonts was enough (the reconfiguration of X is part of instalation > procedure.) Do you have these fonts installed? > whats the output of: ls -l /usr/share/fonts/dejavu/ > > pavel Yes, I do have dejavu (ttf-dejavu) but I don't know how to tell lyx to use it - it doesn't appear as a choice. But I'm not sure that what I am trying to do is possible in Lyx (see my reply to Gunter below). Anthony -- Anthony Campbell - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews, and sceptical articles)
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
On 12 Jun 2008, G. Milde wrote: > > This is not about conversion but display: > > * If you paste polytonic Greek text from e.g. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_diacritics, this should show up in > greek letters with diacritics at the correct place. > > * If you input latin letters and ASCII-chars for diacritics following the > convention of the "greek" language option of babel and set the language > to "greek", these will be converted to greek letters in the output > only. > > This is the same level of support as for German, say where e.g. "a is > converted to ä in the output (but not in LyX). > > It differs from the handling of math symbols where a set of known > symbol-commands like \alpha or \int are rendered as symbols in LyX. > [snip] Yes, this was the conclusion I was coming to myself. A bit of background to all this: my wife is Greek and needs to type Greek occasionally; she is also a purist about accents etc. (Byzantine enthusiast). She is not happy seeing non-Greek characters on screen. After quite a lot of work I managed to get vim (gvim) to show Greek characters on-screen and to print Greek via Latex, but she can't do it without help from me because it requires a familiarity with Latex which she doesn't have. I was hoping things might be simpler with Lyx but seemingly not. Thanks for the Thessalonica suggestion; it may be a viable alternative. Anthony -- Anthony Campbell - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews, and sceptical articles)
FW: greek fonts
Unfortunately, this does not work. The hyphenation does not materialize.
Ad
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: G. Milde [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Verzonden: maandag 9 juni 2008 8:58
Aan: Ad Meskens
Onderwerp: Re: greek fonts
On 8.06.08, Ad Meskens wrote:
> There is however a problem when you want to write ancient Greek with
hyphens
> etc; The betababel package and writing bcode in ERT works wonderfully.
> However handling Dutch seems to be suppressed.
> When you compile your LyX file, even though you have stated your language
is
> Dutch (or another), the chapter headings will be in English, thus you will
> have something like: 'Chapter 1 '
> Does anyone know how to solve this problem???
You need to include Dutch as last in the list of language options to make
it the default language.
OTOH, I did not have problems with (a trial set of) accented Greek
letters in the attached example.
* The document language is set to German.
LyX passes this as default language to babel, resulting in "Kapitel 1
Teste Gr..."
This should work similarily with Dutch.
* I used "latin modern" fonts, one of the most comprehensive type 1
latex fonts available and part of any modern latex distro.
* The font encoding is set to utf8x, which uses 'ucs' to give the most
comprehensive unicode support available in standard latex
distributions.
* Greek text snippts have set the language tag to Greek with
Edit>Text-Style>Custom>Language
I was looking for "Greek (polutonic)" --> polutonicgreek which is not
present (unfortunately) but it seems to work with "Greek" as well.
* No special code in the preamble at all. No ERT.
Result:
1. LyX puts [greek,german] in the document preamble.
(At first, I was dissapointed to see that LyX doesnot let me specify
more than one language in the document settings. However, now I
realise that this is not needed: I just set the default language and
LyX will do "the right thing" as soon as I use more than one
language with Edit>Text-Style>Custom>Language.)
This results in German Chapter heading prefix (, Toc heading, ...) as
well as use of T1 (cork) encoded fonts (no problems with Umlauts and
es-zet ß.
2. LyX changes the font encoding to LGR for greek text. No need for
autofe or other specials beside setting the text language.
3. LyX calls babel if there is more than one langugage in the document
and puts text in another than the default language in a
\foreignlanguage{} command.
(This is customizable in the Tools>Settings>Languages dialogue.)
Conclusion:
It should work reasonably well without extra efforts to mix a main
document language wiht examples in Greek (or Russian, say) with LyX and
the utf8x font encoding.
Documentation on the various utf8 font encodings is still missing.
Günter
greek-german-test.lyx
Description: application/lyx
RE: greek fonts
This does indeed work!
When I use \AtBeginDocument{\selectlanguage{dutch}} in the preamble, all
headings are in Dutch.
Thanks
Ad
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Liviu Andronic [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Verzonden: zondag 8 juni 2008 12:27
Aan: Ad Meskens
CC: lyx-users@lists.lyx.org
Onderwerp: Re: greek fonts
On 6/8/08, Ad Meskens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> There is however a problem when you want to write ancient Greek with
hyphens
> etc; The betababel package and writing bcode in ERT works wonderfully.
> However handling Dutch seems to be suppressed.
>
> When you compile your LyX file, even though you have stated your language
is
> Dutch (or another), the chapter headings will be in English, thus you
will
> have something like: 'Chapter 1 '
>
> Does anyone know how to solve this problem???
>
There was a recent discussion [1] on this, with no apparent solution.
This other relevant discussion [2] seems to offer a solution.
Regards,
Liviu
[1] http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg63778.html
[2] http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg63753.html
Re: greek fonts
On 10.06.08, Pavel Sanda wrote: On 10.06.08, Pavel Sanda wrote: now the next step :) i see latex error that utf8x.def file is missing. Where you able to select utf8x font encoding from the LyX gui? i dont think this is possible. My mistake. You cannot choose font encoding from lyx. It should have read *input encoding* which in lyx is available under DocumentSettingsLanguageEncoding which was set to utf8x in your previous file. Normally LyX checks the package availability for any extensions, so this might count as a (minor) LyX bug, no i dont have this package locally, so its not lyx problem. It is a lyx problem if you can actively set DocumentSettingsLanguageEncoding to utf8x while the package ucs (and hence utf8x.def) is not installed. Could you test whether you can change the encoding to something else and back to utf8x (before installing ucs)? Of course it is not a lyx problem, if you can open view and edit my file even if it specifies an encoding your system does not support. ;-) Günter
Re: greek fonts
Normally LyX checks the package availability for any extensions, so this might count as a (minor) LyX bug, no i dont have this package locally, so its not lyx problem. It is a lyx problem if you can actively set DocumentSettingsLanguageEncoding to utf8x while the package ucs (and hence utf8x.def) is not installed. Could you test whether you can change the encoding to something else and back to utf8x (before installing ucs)? yes i can. anyway i think you should be able to select encoding for which your tex distribution hasn't support, because at least editing works and and in some cases that is enough. pavel
Re: greek fonts
On 10 Jun 2008, G. Milde wrote: On 10.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote: I tried to use Lyx for ancient Greek but the circumflex (tilde) keeps appearing before the letter instead of above it. In most fonts, even in the Standard glyph list of the Unicode consortium and fonts from the Greek Font Society, the accents are written before the letter for capital letters and over the letter for small letters. All the accents appear correctly over the letters except for the circumflex (tilde). But in plain Latex the circumlex is correct. Could you post a *small* example file (lyx and tex)? Günter 1. Greek lyx: can you send it as a normal attachment? pavel
Re: greek fonts
On 10 Jun 2008, G. Milde wrote:
On 10.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote:
I tried to use Lyx for ancient Greek but the circumflex (tilde)
keeps
appearing before the letter instead of above it.
In most fonts, even in the Standard glyph list of the Unicode
consortium and fonts from the Greek Font Society, the accents are written
before the letter for capital letters and over the letter for small
letters.
All the accents appear correctly over the letters except for the
circumflex (tilde). But in plain Latex the circumlex is correct.
Could you post a *small* example file (lyx and tex)?
Günter
1. Greek lyx:
#LyX 1.5.5 created this file. For more info see http://www.lyx.org/
\lyxformat 276
\begin_document
\begin_header
\textclass book
\begin_preamble
% This file was converted from HTML to LaTeX with
% Tomasz Wegrzanowski's [EMAIL PROTECTED] gnuhtml2latex program
% Version : 0.1
\end_preamble
\language greek
\inputencoding auto
\font_roman palatino
\font_sans default
\font_typewriter default
\font_default_family rmdefault
\font_sc false
\font_osf false
\font_sf_scale 100
\font_tt_scale 100
\graphics default
\paperfontsize 11
\spacing other 1.1
\papersize custom
\use_geometry true
\use_amsmath 0
\use_esint 0
\cite_engine basic
\use_bibtopic false
\paperorientation portrait
\paperwidth 6in
\paperheight 9in
\leftmargin 0.85in
\topmargin 0.85in
\rightmargin 0.85in
\bottommargin 0.85in
\secnumdepth 2
\tocdepth 2
\paragraph_separation indent
\defskip medskip
\quotes_language swedish
\papercolumns 1
\papersides 2
\paperpagestyle default
\tracking_changes false
\output_changes false
\author
\author
\end_header
\begin_body
\begin_layout Standard
this is me~ant to b`e in Gre'ek
\end_layout
\begin_layout Standard
\end_layout
\end_body
\end_document
--
2. Greek Tex
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage[polutonikogreek]{babel}
\usepackage[iso-8859-7]{inputenc}
\begin{document}
\selectlanguage{polutonikogreek}
\Large
Per`i t~hs amuntik~hs leitourg'ias t~hs ekklhsiastik~hs gl'wssas
Ðåñ`é ô~çó áìõíôéê~çó ëåéôïõñã'éáó ô~çó åêêëçóéáóôéê~çó ãë'ùóóáò
\bigskip
H Orj'odoxh Ekklhs'ia sugkrote~ita st`hn pr'axh di'afores
\end{document}
--
Anthony Campbell - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux
http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews,
and sceptical articles)
Re: greek fonts
On 11 Jun 2008, Pavel Sanda wrote: On 10 Jun 2008, G. Milde wrote: On 10.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote: I tried to use Lyx for ancient Greek but the circumflex (tilde) keeps appearing before the letter instead of above it. In most fonts, even in the Standard glyph list of the Unicode consortium and fonts from the Greek Font Society, the accents are written before the letter for capital letters and over the letter for small letters. All the accents appear correctly over the letters except for the circumflex (tilde). But in plain Latex the circumlex is correct. Could you post a *small* example file (lyx and tex)? Günter 1. Greek lyx: can you send it as a normal attachment? pavel I'm not sure what you mean. It's plain ascii. -- Anthony Campbell - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews, and sceptical articles)
Re: greek fonts
Anthony Campbell skrev: On 11 Jun 2008, Pavel Sanda wrote: On 10 Jun 2008, G. Milde wrote: On 10.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote: I tried to use Lyx for ancient Greek but the circumflex (tilde) keeps appearing before the letter instead of above it. In most fonts, even in the Standard glyph list of the Unicode consortium and fonts from the Greek Font Society, the accents are written before the letter for capital letters and over the letter for small letters. All the accents appear correctly over the letters except for the circumflex (tilde). But in plain Latex the circumlex is correct. Could you post a *small* example file (lyx and tex)? Günter 1. Greek lyx: can you send it as a normal attachment? pavel I'm not sure what you mean. It's plain ascii. He means like I attached a lyx file in my linespacing in author mail sent a few minutes ago.
Re: greek fonts
On 11 Jun 2008, Rune Schjellerup Philosof wrote: Anthony Campbell skrev: On 11 Jun 2008, Pavel Sanda wrote: On 10 Jun 2008, G. Milde wrote: On 10.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote: I tried to use Lyx for ancient Greek but the circumflex (tilde) keeps appearing before the letter instead of above it. In most fonts, even in the Standard glyph list of the Unicode consortium and fonts from the Greek Font Society, the accents are written before the letter for capital letters and over the letter for small letters. All the accents appear correctly over the letters except for the circumflex (tilde). But in plain Latex the circumlex is correct. Could you post a *small* example file (lyx and tex)? Günter 1. Greek lyx: can you send it as a normal attachment? pavel I'm not sure what you mean. It's plain ascii. He means like I attached a lyx file in my linespacing in author mail sent a few minutes ago. That seems to be the same thing but with carriage returns. Off-hand I'm not sure how to do that thought I think it's possible in vim. But the whole thing is getting extremely complicated so I think I'll just stick with plain Latex. Thanks to everyone for help. Anthony -- Anthony Campbell - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews, and sceptical articles)
Re: greek fonts
On 11.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote: On 10 Jun 2008, G. Milde wrote: On 10.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote: I tried to use Lyx for ancient Greek but the circumflex (tilde) keeps appearing before the letter instead of above it. Unfortunately, lyx currently only supports modern Greek, but has no support for polytonic Greek (babel option polutonikogreek). However, this can be easily fixed by adding polutonikogreek to the languages file and re-configuring: --- /usr/share/lyx/languages2008-05-14 11:36:44.0 +0200 +++ ~/.lyx/languages2008-06-11 13:09:27.0 +0200 @@ -36,6 +36,7 @@ german german Germanfalse iso8859-15 de_DE ngerman ngermanGerman (new spelling) false iso8859-15 de_DE greek greek Greek false iso8859-7 el_GR +polutonikogreek polutonikogreekGreek (polytonic) false iso8859-7 el_GR hebrew hebrew Hebrewtrue cp1255 he_IL #hungarian hungarian Hungarian false iso8859-2 hu_HU irish irish Irish false iso8859-15 ga_IE With this fix, your lyx example can be set to use the language Greek (polytonic). However, as the tilde acts as a non-breakable space in LaTeX, it is escaped by LyX (converted to \asciitilde) and hence the example will only work right, if you put the tilde (or the whole text) in an ERT box or just insert a non-breakable space instead. See the attached example. Question to the developers: Would it be possible to pass the tilde '~' to LaTeX as-is if the language is set to polutonikogreek? All the accents appear correctly over the letters except for the circumflex (tilde). But in plain Latex the circumflex is correct. A tilde is not a circumflex: Character '~' (126, 0x7E) 007E TILDE Character '^' (94, 0x5E) 005E CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT 2. Greek Tex ... Now I see. Your example uses polutonikogreek. With greek, the tilde is replaced by a space. With the above patch, I can import your latex example, set the language to Greek (polytonic) and it displays as expected. With DocumentSettingsLanguageEncoding set to utf8x, LyX can handle accented (polytonic) Greek characters like the example 2 copied directly from the Wikipedia even with language == Greek. Günter greek-test-campbell.lyx Description: application/lyx greek-german-test.lyx Description: application/lyx
Re: greek fonts
On 11.06.08, Pavel Sanda wrote: Normally LyX checks the package availability for any extensions, so this might count as a (minor) LyX bug, no i dont have this package locally, so its not lyx problem. It is a lyx problem if you can actively set DocumentSettingsLanguageEncoding to utf8x while the package ucs (and hence utf8x.def) is not installed. Could you test whether you can change the encoding to something else and back to utf8x (before installing ucs)? yes i can. anyway i think you should be able to select encoding for which your tex distribution hasn't support, because at least editing works and and in some cases that is enough. But this is inconsistent with handling of other extensions. Editing in LyX works even without any tex distribution, still reconfigure checks availability of fonts, classes and packages -- but not inputenc nor ucs. Günter
Re: greek fonts
With this fix, your lyx example can be set to use the language Greek
(polytonic).
However, as the tilde acts as a non-breakable space in LaTeX, it is
escaped by LyX (converted to \asciitilde) and hence the example will only
work right, if you put the tilde (or the whole text) in an ERT box or
just insert a non-breakable space instead.
See the attached example.
Question to the developers: Would it be possible to pass the tilde '~'
to LaTeX as-is if the language is set to polutonikogreek?
please correct me if i'm wrong, but i think this is wrong direction. how will
you determine nonbreak. space vs tilde accent then?
Anthony wrote that he does not see tilde over character, but i dont have any
problems with
it. When you put tilde-accent into the command buffer and then strike the
desired key,
tilde is not working for you? tex output is then \~{character}.
pavel
Re: greek fonts
it. When you put tilde-accent into the command buffer and then strike the desired key, sorry i meant accent-tilde pavel
Re: greek fonts
is tetex supposed to work with the chosen encoding or do i need texlive?
what tex distribution do you use?
utf8x.def is part of the ucs package for comprehensive unicode support.
I use the texlive packages from Debian/testing which contain ucs in
texlive-latex-recommended.
I do not know whether ucs is part of tetex (or which tetex package it is
in). But tetex should cooperate with it if you locally install ucs from
CTAN.
just for archive purposes gentoo has ucs hidden under dev-tex/latex-unicode
package. i also got complaint about missing beramono.sty so dev-tex/bera
packages was needed too.
after removing \usepackage{kerkis} from preamble of the file you posted
i see everything correctly in postscript output.
pavel
Re: greek fonts
But this is inconsistent with handling of other extensions. Editing in LyX works even without any tex distribution, still reconfigure checks availability of fonts, classes and packages -- but not inputenc nor ucs. which is a different story then prohibit this encoding ;) pavel
Re: greek fonts
On 11 Jun 2008, G. Milde wrote: Unfortunately, lyx currently only supports modern Greek, but has no support for polytonic Greek (babel option polutonikogreek). However, this can be easily fixed by adding polutonikogreek to the languages file and re-configuring: --- /usr/share/lyx/languages 2008-05-14 11:36:44.0 +0200 +++ ~/.lyx/languages 2008-06-11 13:09:27.0 +0200 @@ -36,6 +36,7 @@ german german Germanfalse iso8859-15 de_DE ngerman ngerman German (new spelling) false iso8859-15 de_DE greek greekGreek false iso8859-7 el_GR +polutonikogreek polutonikogreek Greek (polytonic) false iso8859-7 el_GR hebrew hebrew Hebrewtrue cp1255 he_IL #hungarian hungarian Hungarian false iso8859-2 hu_HU irish irishIrish false iso8859-15 ga_IE With this fix, your lyx example can be set to use the language Greek (polytonic). However, as the tilde acts as a non-breakable space in LaTeX, it is escaped by LyX (converted to \asciitilde) and hence the example will only work right, if you put the tilde (or the whole text) in an ERT box or just insert a non-breakable space instead. See the attached example. Question to the developers: Would it be possible to pass the tilde '~' to LaTeX as-is if the language is set to polutonikogreek? All the accents appear correctly over the letters except for the circumflex (tilde). But in plain Latex the circumflex is correct. A tilde is not a circumflex: Character '~' (126, 0x7E) 007ETILDE Character '^' (94, 0x5E) 005E CIRCUMFLEX ACCENT 2. Greek Tex ... Now I see. Your example uses polutonikogreek. With greek, the tilde is replaced by a space. With the above patch, I can import your latex example, set the language to Greek (polytonic) and it displays as expected. With DocumentSettingsLanguageEncoding set to utf8x, LyX can handle accented (polytonic) Greek characters like the example 2 copied directly from the Wikipedia even with language == Greek. Günter It still doesn't work here. That is, the tilde comes out before the letter, not on top of it. But I think this is something to do with the current version of Latex, not Lyx, because the same thing is now happening in native Latex as well. Looks like I shall have to give up trying to write Greek in Lyx and Latex for the time being, unless someone fixes it. This is on Debian Sid. I haven't tried in my rather ancient version of Ubuntu. Anthony -- Anthony Campbell - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews, and sceptical articles)
Re: greek fonts
On 11 Jun 2008, G. Milde wrote: It still doesn't work here. That is, the tilde comes out before the letter, not on top of it. But I think this is something to do with the current version of Latex, not Lyx, because the same thing is now happening in native Latex as well. Looks like I shall have to give up trying to write Greek in Lyx and Latex for the time being, unless someone fixes it. This is on Debian Sid. I haven't tried in my rather ancient version of Ubuntu. thats strange, i can typeset Guenter's example file without problems. and without any polutonikogreek etc. just greek language and utf8x input encoding is enough. thing which indeed seems to be broken in lyx is direct typing of these accented characters into the document. but once you put the character via clipboard or symbols dialog in 1.6 i see no problem. both screen and postscipt result are just fine. i will raise that input-typing issue on devel list soon. pavel
Re: greek fonts
On 11.06.08, Pavel Sanda wrote:
Question to the developers: Would it be possible to pass the tilde '~'
to LaTeX as-is if the language is set to polutonikogreek?
please correct me if i'm wrong, but i think this is wrong direction.
how will you determine nonbreak. space vs tilde accent then?
The same way as polutonikogreek.def: \nobreakspace vs. ~
Anthony wrote that he does not see tilde over character, but i dont
have any problems with it.
So we have to find out what is different in Anthony's case.
When you put tilde-accent into the command buffer and then strike the
desired key, tilde is not working for you?
It works in LyX but not in the printout.
tex output is then \~{character}.
which works well with (modern) greek but not with polutonikogreek.
See the attached examples.
Günter
greek-test-campbell.lyx
Description: application/lyx
polutonikogreek-test-campbell.lyx
Description: application/lyx
Re: greek fonts
On 11.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote:
It still doesn't work here. That is, the tilde comes out before the
letter, not on top of it.
But I think this is something to do with the current version of Latex,
not Lyx, because the same thing is now happening in native Latex as
well.
Strange.
Looks like I shall have to give up trying to write Greek in Lyx and
Latex for the time being, unless someone fixes it. This is on Debian
Sid.
I use Debian/testing and do not have the problems.
Could you try with the two attached latex files?
\documentclass[polutonikogreek,british]{article}
\usepackage{mathpazo}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage[latin9,iso-8859-7]{inputenc}
\usepackage{babel}
\begin{document}
\selectlanguage{british}%
\inputencoding{latin9}
\section*{polutonikogreek document}
\selectlanguage{polutonikogreek}%
\inputencoding{iso-8859-7}
this is me~ant t\^o b`e in Gre'ek
\selectlanguage{british}%
\inputencoding{latin9}This prints a tilde before the letter:
\inputencoding{iso-8859-7}\foreignlanguage{polutonikogreek}{\textasciitilde{}h.}
\inputencoding{latin9}This only works in polutonik (classic) Greek but drops
the tilde in modern Greek:
\inputencoding{iso-8859-7}\foreignlanguage{polutonikogreek}{~h, ~h.}
\inputencoding{latin9}This only works in monotonik (modern) Greek:
\inputencoding{iso-8859-7}\foreignlanguage{polutonikogreek}{\~{h}.}
\inputencoding{latin9}This works in both, polutonik and monotonik (modern)
Greek:
\inputencoding{iso-8859-7}\foreignlanguage{polutonikogreek}{\~h.}
\end{document}
\documentclass[greek,british]{article}
\usepackage{mathpazo}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage[latin9,iso-8859-7]{inputenc}
\usepackage{babel}
\begin{document}
\selectlanguage{british}%
\inputencoding{latin9}
\section*{greek document}
\selectlanguage{greek}%
\inputencoding{iso-8859-7}
this is me~ant to b`e in Gre'ek
\selectlanguage{british}%
\inputencoding{latin9}This prints a tilde before the letter:
\inputencoding{iso-8859-7}\foreignlanguage{greek}{\textasciitilde{}h.}
\inputencoding{latin9}This only works in polutonik (classic) Greek but drops
the tilde in modern Greek:
\inputencoding{iso-8859-7}\foreignlanguage{greek}{~h, ~h.}
\inputencoding{latin9}This only works in monotonik (modern) Greek:
\inputencoding{iso-8859-7}\foreignlanguage{greek}{\~{h}.}
\inputencoding{latin9}This works in both, polutonik and monotonik (modern)
Greek:
\inputencoding{iso-8859-7}\foreignlanguage{greek}{\~h.}
\end{document}
Re: greek fonts
On 11 Jun 2008, G. Milde wrote: On 11.06.08, Anthony Campbell wrote: It still doesn't work here. That is, the tilde comes out before the letter, not on top of it. But I think this is something to do with the current version of Latex, not Lyx, because the same thing is now happening in native Latex as well. Strange. Looks like I shall have to give up trying to write Greek in Lyx and Latex for the time being, unless someone fixes it. This is on Debian Sid. I use Debian/testing and do not have the problems. Could you try with the two attached latex files? OK: polytonikogreek document works partly; greek document works almost correctly except that the second line doesn't print any tildes at all. I attach the dvi files so that you can see what happens. Anthony -- Anthony Campbell - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Microsoft-free zone - Using Debian GNU/Linux http://www.acampbell.org.uk (blog, book reviews, and sceptical articles) polytonikogreek-test-campbell.dvi Description: TeX dvi file greek-test-campbell.dvi Description: TeX dvi file
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
Question to the developers: Would it be possible to pass the tilde '~'
to LaTeX as-is if the language is set to polutonikogreek?
please correct me if i'm wrong, but i think this is wrong direction.
how will you determine nonbreak. space vs tilde accent then?
The same way as polutonikogreek.def: \nobreakspace vs. ~
before sinking into this issue i still don't understand why polutonikogreek
is needed, see below.
When you put tilde-accent into the command buffer and then strike the
desired key, tilde is not working for you?
It works in LyX but not in the printout.
yes i found this already ;(
tex output is then \~{character}.
which works well with (modern) greek but not with polutonikogreek.
i would like to summarize the my understanding of the problems i encountered,
please comment on:
1. Screen painting.
after installing unicode fonts for X displaying ancient greek letters works in
lyx
without problems.
2. LaTeX typeseting.
after installing unicode packages for tex fonts and input encoding utf8x
the documents with ancient greek letters obtained in document via copy paste
from e.g. wikipedia or through symbols dialog in lyx 1.6 work without problems,
no switch to polutonikogreek needed, just greek language is enough.
3. Input of ancient greek letters into the document.
a) pasting the (whole) unicode character from outside works
b) using the keystroke of ~+char does not work - instead of accented character
we get two characters.
c) using lfun accent-tilde+char basically(*) works as far as screen painting
concerened,
but fails badly once you try to typeset the document.
the key issue is why 3c fails. guessing from the output the culprit is that when
accent-tilde is used with some char, it does not produce 'single' character but
it produces combined unicode character (i.e. accent char+normal char). iirc
this is correct
from the unicode point of view - single accented char is equivalent to
combining char + normal letter. this works on the screen, however utf8x is not
able to
decode the second case unless we use \unicodecombine macro in tex output.
i see more ways how this could be fixed, but we should firstly agree that THIS
is the
culprit.
once 3c is fixed, 3b is easily fixable by adding shortcut for ~ - accent-tilde
call
(or even hard code ~ as a dead key).
pavel
(3c*) there are few minor issues how the 'combined' chars cause editing
problems inside
lyx - backspace key is not always able to delete accent char, one must put it
into selection
to get rid of it, there is also issue with source view panel for which i
already filed
new bug report (4946).
Re: greek fonts (summary?)
Pavel Sanda skrev: (or even hard code ~ as a dead key). On some keyboard layouts ~ is a dead key by default (danish for instance). My guess is that people, who wish to write greek, use such a keyboard layout (or changes to one). I wonder why tilde is a dead key on danish keyboards, we don't have any chars in our alphabet that use a tilde accent. I guess someone once thought that tilde would only be used for languages, where it is an accent, and then defaulted it to dead? Then that someone thought wrong, or the one who chose ~ for homedir shortcut chose wrong :) ã õ ñ -- Mvh Rune
Re: greek fonts
On 10.06.08, Pavel Sanda wrote: On 10.06.08, Pavel Sanda wrote: now the next step :) i see latex error that utf8x.def file is missing. Where you able to select utf8x font encoding from the LyX gui? i dont think this is possible. My mistake. You cannot choose font encoding from lyx. It should have read *input encoding* which in lyx is available under DocumentSettingsLanguageEncoding which was set to utf8x in your previous file. Normally LyX checks the package availability for any extensions, so this might count as a (minor) LyX bug, no i dont have this package locally, so its not lyx problem. It is a lyx problem if you can actively set DocumentSettingsLanguageEncoding to utf8x while the package ucs (and hence utf8x.def) is not installed. Could you test whether you can change the encoding to something else and back to utf8x (before installing ucs)? Of course it is not a lyx problem, if you can open view and edit my file even if it specifies an encoding your system does not support. ;-) Günter
Re: greek fonts
Normally LyX checks the package availability for any extensions, so this might count as a (minor) LyX bug, no i dont have this package locally, so its not lyx problem. It is a lyx problem if you can actively set DocumentSettingsLanguageEncoding to utf8x while the package ucs (and hence utf8x.def) is not installed. Could you test whether you can change the encoding to something else and back to utf8x (before installing ucs)? yes i can. anyway i think you should be able to select encoding for which your tex distribution hasn't support, because at least editing works and and in some cases that is enough. pavel
