Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Julio Rojas wrote: Now my problem is that my tutor only uses Word. He doesn't want to expend his time learning LyX, even thou there's really nothing to learn (I'll do all the LaTeX job and he'll only do some writing). How about: You write with LyX, and sends him PDF. Anybody can read PDF. He writes his answers in word (or plain text email), possibly cutting and pasting text from the PDF. You then copy from his messages and paste into your LyX document. Does he have to write in the _same_ document file? Helge Hafting
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Well, that could work and some of that is what we've using, but for the thesis I don't think that's plausible. Notes for text already written and ideas about moving paragraphs, are better seen in the actual document. At least from an editorial point of view. I think that for my theisis I'll stick to PDF's with comments, at least while I install LyX on his PC. Anyway, thanks Helge. I'll keep you guys informed on the process. On 5/18/07, Helge Hafting [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Julio Rojas wrote: Now my problem is that my tutor only uses Word. He doesn't want to expend his time learning LyX, even thou there's really nothing to learn (I'll do all the LaTeX job and he'll only do some writing). How about: You write with LyX, and sends him PDF. Anybody can read PDF. He writes his answers in word (or plain text email), possibly cutting and pasting text from the PDF. You then copy from his messages and paste into your LyX document. Does he have to write in the _same_ document file? Helge Hafting -- - Julio Rojas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Julio Rojas wrote: Anyway, thanks Helge. I'll keep you guys informed on the process. Not a solution for now but okular the next generation KDE pdf reader will have annotations support. http://kpdf.kde.org/okular/screenies/okular-annotations.png KDE 4 applications should also work under Windows. Cheers, Charles -- http://www.kde-france.org
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Julio Rojas wrote: Now my problem is that my tutor only uses Word. He doesn't want to expend his time learning LyX, even thou there's really nothing to learn (I'll do all the LaTeX job and he'll only do some writing). How about: You write with LyX, and sends him PDF. Anybody can read PDF. He writes his answers in word (or plain text email), possibly cutting and pasting text from the PDF. You then copy from his messages and paste into your LyX document. Does he have to write in the _same_ document file? Helge Hafting
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Well, that could work and some of that is what we've using, but for the thesis I don't think that's plausible. Notes for text already written and ideas about moving paragraphs, are better seen in the actual document. At least from an editorial point of view. I think that for my theisis I'll stick to PDF's with comments, at least while I install LyX on his PC. Anyway, thanks Helge. I'll keep you guys informed on the process. On 5/18/07, Helge Hafting [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Julio Rojas wrote: Now my problem is that my tutor only uses Word. He doesn't want to expend his time learning LyX, even thou there's really nothing to learn (I'll do all the LaTeX job and he'll only do some writing). How about: You write with LyX, and sends him PDF. Anybody can read PDF. He writes his answers in word (or plain text email), possibly cutting and pasting text from the PDF. You then copy from his messages and paste into your LyX document. Does he have to write in the _same_ document file? Helge Hafting -- - Julio Rojas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Julio Rojas wrote: Anyway, thanks Helge. I'll keep you guys informed on the process. Not a solution for now but okular the next generation KDE pdf reader will have annotations support. http://kpdf.kde.org/okular/screenies/okular-annotations.png KDE 4 applications should also work under Windows. Cheers, Charles -- http://www.kde-france.org
Re: Why Lyx->Word?
Julio Rojas wrote: Now my problem is that my tutor only uses Word. He doesn't want to expend his time "learning" LyX, even thou there's really nothing to learn (I'll do all the LaTeX job and he'll only do some writing). How about: You write with LyX, and sends him PDF. Anybody can read PDF. He writes his answers in word (or plain text email), possibly cutting and pasting text from the PDF. You then copy from his messages and paste into your LyX document. Does he have to write in the _same_ document file? Helge Hafting
Re: Why Lyx->Word?
Well, that could work and some of that is what we've using, but for the thesis I don't think that's plausible. Notes for text already written and ideas about moving paragraphs, are better seen "in" the actual document. At least from an editorial point of view. I think that for my theisis I'll stick to PDF's with comments, at least while I install LyX on his PC. Anyway, thanks Helge. I'll keep you guys informed on the process. On 5/18/07, Helge Hafting <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Julio Rojas wrote: > > Now my problem is that my tutor only uses Word. He doesn't want to > expend his time "learning" LyX, even thou there's really nothing to > learn (I'll do all the LaTeX job and he'll only do some writing). How about: You write with LyX, and sends him PDF. Anybody can read PDF. He writes his answers in word (or plain text email), possibly cutting and pasting text from the PDF. You then copy from his messages and paste into your LyX document. Does he have to write in the _same_ document file? Helge Hafting -- - Julio Rojas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why Lyx->Word?
Julio Rojas wrote: > Anyway, thanks Helge. I'll keep you guys informed on the process. > Not a solution for now but okular the next generation KDE pdf reader will have annotations support. http://kpdf.kde.org/okular/screenies/okular-annotations.png KDE 4 applications should also work under Windows. Cheers, Charles -- http://www.kde-france.org
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Steve Litt wrote: Hi all, This is a general question for all those asking about converting LyX to MS Word... I've never done it, but: LyX is my preferred tool for all word processing / typesetting tasks. Anything I need to write with formatting - a letter, a report, a book, a pdf file, I start out with LyX by default. If a need for word comes up I try to avoid that, and have been successful so far. There are publisers that accept camera-ready pdf, happy for the work this saves them. Documents mailed to non-LyX users can usually be sent as PDF. For those rare occations someone need editable text in non-LyX format, I export plain text. They can then paste plain text into their word. People usually understand that there is no word on linux anyway. Why not use MS Word from the beginning? AFAIK once you convert to Word (or rtf or whatever), you can't really get it back into LyX. Once you're in Word, you don't have LyX-LaTeX-TeX ability to lay out text and math. I'd be hard pressed to believe that subtle LaTeX tweaks in your layout file will be accurately retained by MS Word. If the person requesting your book/thesis/whatever demands it in MS Word with the idea of typesetting it him/herself, why do you care whether it's written in LyX, MS Word, OO, Vim, Emacs or Mozilla Composer? It's not like you're responsible for getting the layout right. I find it strange if they insist on word when doing the typesetting themselves. Sure, they don't want to support every editor out there. But at least plain text should be fine. . . If the person requesting your book/thesis/whatever demands it in MS Word with the idea that YOU are responsible for the typesetting, and if the requester cannot be disuaded from this unreasonable demand (after all, why can't they just accept it as a .pdf?), then it would seem to me that the easier route is to start it in MS Word, and begin that by creating a stylesheet (I think they call them templates in Word). Where I see LyX useful, and in fact completely indispensible, is for people like me, who must prolifically produce large, well typeset documents, with no help from a publisher or layout artist. Another person who could use it is one whose publisher or layout artist prefers to work with either LyX or LaTeX, especially if the publisher or layout artist gives the author a layout before the book project begins. But hard as I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word. Only thing I can think of, is if the demand for word comes after the project started. Also, someone unfamiliar with word might not want do to a lot of writing, just a one-off conversion. Especially if they don't have word - it cost money . . . Helge Hafting
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Richard Heck wrote: Hey, I loved WordPerfect back when you had the blue background and stuff. Note that LyX has color preferences - so you can get that white on blue feeling. :-) Helge Hafting
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
As indeed modern versions of Wordperfect, for the last few version you have been able to run in classic view which emulates the DOS version. Graham Helge Hafting wrote: Richard Heck wrote: Hey, I loved WordPerfect back when you had the blue background and stuff. Note that LyX has color preferences - so you can get that white on blue feeling. :-) Helge Hafting __ NOD32 2271 (20070516) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -- Graham M Smith (Consultant Ecologist) 5 Westend Terrace Tel: 01446 793446 Llantwit MajorFax:0870 1322773 Vale of Glamorgan Mobile: 07971 177623 Wales, CF61 1SN Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.myotis.co.uk Information contained in this e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only, and may be confidential or privileged. If you receive this message in error, please advise me immediately. If you are not the intended recipient(s), any form of distribution, copying, or use of information gained as a result of this communication is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. Attachments to this e-mail may contain software viruses that could damage your systems. I have taken reasonable precautions to minimise this risk, but you are advised that any attachments should be virus checked before opening.
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Steve Litt wrote: Hi all, This is a general question for all those asking about converting LyX to MS Word... I've never done it, but: LyX is my preferred tool for all word processing / typesetting tasks. Anything I need to write with formatting - a letter, a report, a book, a pdf file, I start out with LyX by default. If a need for word comes up I try to avoid that, and have been successful so far. There are publisers that accept camera-ready pdf, happy for the work this saves them. Documents mailed to non-LyX users can usually be sent as PDF. For those rare occations someone need editable text in non-LyX format, I export plain text. They can then paste plain text into their word. People usually understand that there is no word on linux anyway. Why not use MS Word from the beginning? AFAIK once you convert to Word (or rtf or whatever), you can't really get it back into LyX. Once you're in Word, you don't have LyX-LaTeX-TeX ability to lay out text and math. I'd be hard pressed to believe that subtle LaTeX tweaks in your layout file will be accurately retained by MS Word. If the person requesting your book/thesis/whatever demands it in MS Word with the idea of typesetting it him/herself, why do you care whether it's written in LyX, MS Word, OO, Vim, Emacs or Mozilla Composer? It's not like you're responsible for getting the layout right. I find it strange if they insist on word when doing the typesetting themselves. Sure, they don't want to support every editor out there. But at least plain text should be fine. . . If the person requesting your book/thesis/whatever demands it in MS Word with the idea that YOU are responsible for the typesetting, and if the requester cannot be disuaded from this unreasonable demand (after all, why can't they just accept it as a .pdf?), then it would seem to me that the easier route is to start it in MS Word, and begin that by creating a stylesheet (I think they call them templates in Word). Where I see LyX useful, and in fact completely indispensible, is for people like me, who must prolifically produce large, well typeset documents, with no help from a publisher or layout artist. Another person who could use it is one whose publisher or layout artist prefers to work with either LyX or LaTeX, especially if the publisher or layout artist gives the author a layout before the book project begins. But hard as I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word. Only thing I can think of, is if the demand for word comes after the project started. Also, someone unfamiliar with word might not want do to a lot of writing, just a one-off conversion. Especially if they don't have word - it cost money . . . Helge Hafting
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Richard Heck wrote: Hey, I loved WordPerfect back when you had the blue background and stuff. Note that LyX has color preferences - so you can get that white on blue feeling. :-) Helge Hafting
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
As indeed modern versions of Wordperfect, for the last few version you have been able to run in classic view which emulates the DOS version. Graham Helge Hafting wrote: Richard Heck wrote: Hey, I loved WordPerfect back when you had the blue background and stuff. Note that LyX has color preferences - so you can get that white on blue feeling. :-) Helge Hafting __ NOD32 2271 (20070516) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -- Graham M Smith (Consultant Ecologist) 5 Westend Terrace Tel: 01446 793446 Llantwit MajorFax:0870 1322773 Vale of Glamorgan Mobile: 07971 177623 Wales, CF61 1SN Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.myotis.co.uk Information contained in this e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only, and may be confidential or privileged. If you receive this message in error, please advise me immediately. If you are not the intended recipient(s), any form of distribution, copying, or use of information gained as a result of this communication is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. Attachments to this e-mail may contain software viruses that could damage your systems. I have taken reasonable precautions to minimise this risk, but you are advised that any attachments should be virus checked before opening.
Re: Why Lyx->Word?
Steve Litt wrote: Hi all, This is a general question for all those asking about converting LyX to MS Word... I've never done it, but: LyX is my preferred tool for all word processing / typesetting tasks. Anything I need to write with formatting - a letter, a report, a book, a pdf file, I start out with LyX by default. If a need for "word" comes up I try to avoid that, and have been successful so far. There are publisers that accept camera-ready pdf, happy for the work this saves them. Documents mailed to non-LyX users can usually be sent as PDF. For those rare occations someone need editable text in non-LyX format, I export plain text. They can then paste plain text into their word. People usually understand that there is no word on linux anyway. Why not use MS Word from the beginning? AFAIK once you convert to Word (or rtf or whatever), you can't really get it back into LyX. Once you're in Word, you don't have LyX->LaTeX->TeX ability to lay out text and math. I'd be hard pressed to believe that subtle LaTeX tweaks in your layout file will be accurately retained by MS Word. If the person requesting your book/thesis/whatever demands it in MS Word with the idea of typesetting it him/herself, why do you care whether it's written in LyX, MS Word, OO, Vim, Emacs or Mozilla Composer? It's not like you're responsible for getting the layout right. I find it strange if they insist on word when doing the typesetting themselves. Sure, they don't want to support every editor out there. But at least plain text should be fine. . . If the person requesting your book/thesis/whatever demands it in MS Word with the idea that YOU are responsible for the typesetting, and if the requester cannot be disuaded from this unreasonable demand (after all, why can't they just accept it as a .pdf?), then it would seem to me that the easier route is to start it in MS Word, and begin that by creating a stylesheet (I think they call them "templates" in Word). Where I see LyX useful, and in fact completely indispensible, is for people like me, who must prolifically produce large, well typeset documents, with no help from a publisher or layout artist. Another person who could use it is one whose publisher or layout artist prefers to work with either LyX or LaTeX, especially if the publisher or layout artist gives the author a layout before the book project begins. But hard as I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word. Only thing I can think of, is if the demand for word comes after the project started. Also, someone unfamiliar with word might not want do to a lot of writing, just a one-off conversion. Especially if they don't have word - it cost money . . . Helge Hafting
Re: Why Lyx->Word?
Richard Heck wrote: Hey, I loved WordPerfect back when you had the blue background and stuff. Note that LyX has color preferences - so you can get that white on blue feeling. :-) Helge Hafting
Re: Why Lyx->Word?
As indeed modern versions of Wordperfect, for the last few version you have been able to run in classic view which emulates the DOS version. Graham Helge Hafting wrote: Richard Heck wrote: Hey, I loved WordPerfect back when you had the blue background and stuff. Note that LyX has color preferences - so you can get that white on blue feeling. :-) Helge Hafting __ NOD32 2271 (20070516) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -- Graham M Smith (Consultant Ecologist) 5 Westend Terrace Tel: 01446 793446 Llantwit MajorFax:0870 1322773 Vale of Glamorgan Mobile: 07971 177623 Wales, CF61 1SN Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] www.myotis.co.uk Information contained in this e-mail is intended for the use of the addressee(s) only, and may be confidential or privileged. If you receive this message in error, please advise me immediately. If you are not the intended recipient(s), any form of distribution, copying, or use of information gained as a result of this communication is strictly prohibited, and may be unlawful. Attachments to this e-mail may contain software viruses that could damage your systems. I have taken reasonable precautions to minimise this risk, but you are advised that any attachments should be virus checked before opening.
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
One further reason: If you have years of work in LaTeX or LyX and you are suddenly requested to write a short article in Word - doable by cut-and-paste, would you write everything again? Or resuse your old text? For my party: I deny using Word and am not willing to use it or an OSF clone of word like OO. If someone only can use word files, e.g., a secretary, I will need to send one. Cheers, -Jan On 5/14/07, Steve Litt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, This is a general question for all those asking about converting LyX to MS Word... Why not use MS Word from the beginning? AFAIK once you convert to Word (or rtf or whatever), you can't really get it back into LyX. Once you're in Word, you don't have LyX-LaTeX-TeX ability to lay out text and math. I'd be hard pressed to believe that subtle LaTeX tweaks in your layout file will be accurately retained by MS Word. If the person requesting your book/thesis/whatever demands it in MS Word with the idea of typesetting it him/herself, why do you care whether it's written in LyX, MS Word, OO, Vim, Emacs or Mozilla Composer? It's not like you're responsible for getting the layout right. If the person requesting your book/thesis/whatever demands it in MS Word with the idea that YOU are responsible for the typesetting, and if the requester cannot be disuaded from this unreasonable demand (after all, why can't they just accept it as a .pdf?), then it would seem to me that the easier route is to start it in MS Word, and begin that by creating a stylesheet (I think they call them templates in Word). Where I see LyX useful, and in fact completely indispensible, is for people like me, who must prolifically produce large, well typeset documents, with no help from a publisher or layout artist. Another person who could use it is one whose publisher or layout artist prefers to work with either LyX or LaTeX, especially if the publisher or layout artist gives the author a layout before the book project begins. But hard as I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word. SteveT Steve Litt Author: Universal Troubleshooting Process books and courseware http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Wonderful Dave, except for users who don't have or don't want to have or can't have Word installed in their computers. Tex2word and word2tex only work within Word, so it's not really a good solution for most of us. As for myself, after years of using Word and hating the bugs that change the document from computer to computer, I decided to give LyX/LaTeX a try using my wife as the guinea pig. She was writing a fairly large article with lots of references. I decided Word was not the way to go, so I installed LyX/LaTeX on her Mac and after the usual growing pains, everything went just smooth. So, I decided to use it for my own work, with is mostly statistics and fuzzy logics articles. I instantly fell in love with the formula typing method, and the onscreen and pdf rendering. Now my problem is that my tutor only uses Word. He doesn't want to expend his time learning LyX, even thou there's really nothing to learn (I'll do all the LaTeX job and he'll only do some writing). So, our collaborative work has to be interchangeable. The format is not really the problem, but the content, specially the formulas. So I've been trying latex2rtf and the PDF comment capacity to ease our pain. On 5/15/07, David A. Case [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, May 14, 2007, Steve Litt wrote: But hard as I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word. As others have said, one doesn't always know where a manuscript will end up when you start writing. Or you may be working with a collaborator who insists on using Word. And so on. For what it is worth, I have had *much* better luck converting Latex to Word using tex2word (http://www.chikrii.com/) than with latex2rtf, html conversion, and so on. Of course, this is neither free nor open-source, but (for me) the time I save going this route is worth the expense. ...dave case -- - Julio Rojas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
I used to use Word quite a lot and was -- overall -- not too unhappy with it. I used it, for instance, to typeset my diploma with 120 pages and plenty of figures. All this worked quite well, but as I said, I already was an experienced Word user at that time so I knew how to do it. I guess the main (non political nor domain-specific) problem many people have with Word is its /pretended/ simplicity. Yes it is simple to get a good-looking, personal letter out of it. However, if one wants to use it to write a more complex document, one really has to know the fundamental concepts and principles to be successful in the end, as well as some best-practices and work-arounds. The hierachical style system, for instance, is quite powerful, but evenly complex. Word leaves the illusion that writing a thesis is technically not different from writing a letter. And that is why many people fail (and get frustrated) using it. It is a complex tool with strengths and weaknesses; as any such tool it requires a reasonable familiarization before people can use it productively. So why did I switch to LyX? Basically I did so when I started to work on documents collaboratively in an academic community. - Platform-independence (Windows, Linux, MacOS) is a big plus here. - Even more important is BibTeX-Support, which is clearly the standard format for bibliographies used by computer scientists. - As LyX uses a text-based format we can manage our papers with a source-control system. (However, LyX could become a lot better for this by not storing editor context information in the document.) Later, I discovered are some of these nifty LaTeX packages, such as hyperref, listings or ps-tricks, that provide me means that would be nearly impossible to achieve with Word. Today I don't want to miss that power! On the other side: At times, I am still surprised how much effort it takes in LaTeX to change just a subtle detail such as a font. The things I am missing most from Word are the spell checker and the table editor. Even after four years LyX/LaTeX experience, I think that developing tables with LaTeX (and LyX) is just a big PITA. Especially if I have to present plenty of data on as-few-as-possible space, both LyX and plain LaTeX drive me crazy. Maybe this just takes another four years :-) Sometimes, I have to admit it, I still draw tables with Word or Excel and export them as EPS figures into my LyX document... Just my two cents. Daniel
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Daniel Lohmann schrieb: Sometimes, I have to admit it, I still draw tables with Word or Excel and export them as EPS figures into my LyX document... There's a tool that could be interesting for you, excel2latex: http://www.jam-software.com/freeware/xl2latex.zip http://www.jam-software.com/freeware/excel2latex_readme_en.txt (There's also a version on CTAN, but it seems to be an older one.) A similar tool for OpenOffice also exists: http://calc2latex.sourceforge.net/ Regards, Dominik.-
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Now Dom, that last one was a really useful tip. Thx!!! On 5/15/07, Dominik Waßenhoven [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Daniel Lohmann schrieb: Sometimes, I have to admit it, I still draw tables with Word or Excel and export them as EPS figures into my LyX document... There's a tool that could be interesting for you, excel2latex: http://www.jam-software.com/freeware/xl2latex.zip http://www.jam-software.com/freeware/excel2latex_readme_en.txt (There's also a version on CTAN, but it seems to be an older one.) A similar tool for OpenOffice also exists: http://calc2latex.sourceforge.net/ Regards, Dominik.- -- - Julio Rojas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Dominik Waßenhoven wrote: Daniel Lohmann schrieb: Sometimes, I have to admit it, I still draw tables with Word or Excel and export them as EPS figures into my LyX document... There's a tool that could be interesting for you, excel2latex: Yes, I know it. Unfortunately it does *exactly not* solve my problem :-) excel2latex converts structure and content of a table, but not the layout details -- which are the issue. While I know how to build some table in LyX/LaTeX, I get frequently frustrated when I have to tweak and optimize the layout (individual cell width, border styles, inner-cell margins, fonts, ...) Nevertheless, excel2latex is quite useful if you are doing your calculations in Excel anyway, have to export large tables, and do not care about the formatting. Daniel
Table layout (was Re: Why Lyx-Word?)
On May 15, 2007, at 7:54 AM, Daniel Lohmann wrote: While I know how to build some table in LyX/LaTeX, I get frequently frustrated when I have to tweak and optimize the layout (individual cell width, border styles, inner-cell margins, fonts, ...) Read Edward Tufte's _The Visual Display of Quantitative Information_ http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/books_vdqi use booktabs (support has been added in v1.5) and read its documentation as well: http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/booktabs/ William -- William Adams senior graphic designer Fry Communications
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Daniel Lohmann wrote: I guess the main (non political nor domain-specific) problem many people have with Word is its /pretended/ simplicity. Yes it is simple to get a good-looking, personal letter out of it. However, if one wants to use it to write a more complex document, one really has to know the fundamental concepts and principles to be successful in the end, as well as some best-practices and work-arounds. [snip] Yes, this is a huge problem, and not just with Word but with a lot of programs that are out there. They make it easy to do certain things and make it seem as if it should be just as easy to do other things, but in fact they make it HARDER to do those other things because all the stuff that makes it so easy to do the easy things gets in your way when you want to do something else. So why did I switch to LyX? [snip out all the praise ;-)] On the other side: At times, I am still surprised how much effort it takes in LaTeX to change just a subtle detail such as a font. Yes, but of course LaTeX isn't designed for end-users to do this kind of thing. The class is supposed to handle all of that, and the end-user is supposed to worry about content. True, there are times when one does want to do that kind of thing, and if you're self-publishing books like Steve Litt does then you wear both hats. But it's a bug, not a feature, of Word and similar programs that it makes changing fonts so easy, and so alluring. That said, once you know how to change fonts in LaTeX, it's not that hard to do. The things I am missing most from Word are the spell checker and the table editor. Even after four years LyX/LaTeX experience, I think that developing tables with LaTeX (and LyX) is just a big PITA. Especially if I have to present plenty of data on as-few-as-possible space, both LyX and plain LaTeX drive me crazy. Maybe this just takes another four years :-) Sometimes, I have to admit it, I still draw tables with Word or Excel and export them as EPS figures into my LyX document... I think work on the table editor is scheduled for 1.6.x development. Richard -- == Richard G Heck, Jr Professor of Philosophy Brown University http://frege.brown.edu/heck/ == Get my public key from http://sks.keyserver.penguin.de Hash: 0x1DE91F1E66FFBDEC Learn how to sign your email using Thunderbird and GnuPG at: http://dudu.dyn.2-h.org/nist/gpg-enigmail-howto
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
On Tuesday 15 May 2007 12:04, Richard Heck wrote: Yes, but of course LaTeX isn't designed for end-users to do this kind of thing. The class is supposed to handle all of that, and the end-user is supposed to worry about content. True, there are times when one does want to do that kind of thing, and if you're self-publishing books like Steve Litt does then you wear both hats. Thanks Richard, I think the right kind of documentation can make it much easier for LyX users to make their own paragraph and character styles, even if they're not programmers or super smart. After years of trying to figure this stuff out (and lots of bald spots where I ripped out my hair), I've come to the conclusion that you can't really understand LaTeX and use it effectively without first understanding TeX, which fortunately is VERY simple. After learning TeX, I still can't figure everything out, but at least I'm not intimidated, and I can form questions to get the info I need on the LyX list. Personally, I'd recommend everyone on this list read TeX for the Impatient, available here: http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/impatient/book.pdf After reading that book, I've never again been intimidated by LaTeX (confused, yes, but not intimidated). SteveT Steve Litt Author: Universal Troubleshooting Process books and courseware http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Personally, I'd recommend everyone on this list read TeX for the Impatient, available here: http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/impatient/book.pdf A 391 page long book for 'the impatient'? :-) Bo
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Steve Litt wrote: Personally, I'd recommend everyone on this list read TeX for the Impatient, available here: http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/impatient/book.pdf After reading that book, I've never again been intimidated by LaTeX (confused, yes, but not intimidated). LaTeX has the most bizarre syntax. I thought C++ was hard to understand. rh -- == Richard G Heck, Jr Professor of Philosophy Brown University http://frege.brown.edu/heck/ == Get my public key from http://sks.keyserver.penguin.de Hash: 0x1DE91F1E66FFBDEC Learn how to sign your email using Thunderbird and GnuPG at: http://dudu.dyn.2-h.org/nist/gpg-enigmail-howto
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
On Tue, May 15, 2007 at 12:24:31PM -0500, Bo Peng wrote: Personally, I'd recommend everyone on this list read TeX for the Impatient,available here: http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/impatient/book.pdf A 391 page long book for 'the impatient'? :-) You found one of the propblems of TeX. Andre'
Re[2]: Why Lyx-Word?
Personally, I'd recommend everyone on this list read TeX for the Impatient,available here: http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/impatient/book.pdf On Tue, May 15, 2007 at 12:24:31PM -0500, Bo Peng wrote: A 391 page long book for 'the impatient'? :-) On Tue, 15 May 2007, Andre Poenitz apparently wrote: You found one of the propblems of TeX. I find that like complaining about the length of a Visual Basic book for Word users. (Not that books on Word don't hit amazing lengths as well.) lshort URL:www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/lshort/english/lshort.pdf is a fine intro for most. Cheers, Alan Isaac
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
On Tuesday 15 May 2007 13:24, Bo Peng wrote: Personally, I'd recommend everyone on this list read TeX for the Impatient, available here: http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/impatient/book.pdf A 391 page long book for 'the impatient'? :-) Bo Hi Bo, Yeah, but it's an easy read, at least relative to all LaTeX documentation. The organization is intiutive and useful, and don't forget, this is both an instructive book and a reference, which makes it longer. And let's not forget that Lamport's The LaTeX Companion is 1090 pages. If you are *mega* impatient, you can read my article, LyX, LaTeX and TeX at http://www.troubleshooters.cxm/linux/lyx/lyx_latex_tex.htm. At 12,000 words it's the equivalent of a 24 page book. After you've read my article, there's only one additional thing you need to do: read TeX for the Impatient :-) Seriously, I wouldn't be caught dead messing with LaTeX without reading TeX for the Impatient or an equivalent TeX text. SteveT Steve Litt Author: Universal Troubleshooting Process books and courseware http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
On Tuesday 15 May 2007 16:51, Steve Litt wrote: If you are *mega* impatient, you can read my article, LyX, LaTeX and TeX at http://www.troubleshooters.cxm/linux/lyx/lyx_latex_tex.htm. Oops, I meant http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/lyx/lyx_latex_tex.htm. SteveT
Re: Table layout (was Re: Why Lyx-Word?)
William Adams schrieb: use booktabs (support has been added in v1.5) and read its documentation as well: http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/booktabs/ LyX 1.5 will support booktabs. you can check out the beta3 for LyX 1.5.0 that is released tomorrow. For infos about table formatting with LyX, have a look at the EmbeddedObjects manual (available since LyX 1.4.4 or from here: http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/DocumentationDevelopment#EmbeddedObjects ) regards Uwe
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
On 15 May, 2007, at 6:00 PM, Jan Peters wrote: One further reason: If you have years of work in LaTeX or LyX and you are suddenly requested to write a short article in Word - doable by cut-and-paste, would you write everything again? Or resuse your old text? For me, this is THE reason. I want and need to have access to everything I write until the end of my career. No commercial package with a closed format will ever satisfy that requirement, as I have found out, painfully, not too long ago. The only alternative to using open software and open standards is to set up a personal computing museum with carefully chosen hardware/OS/word processing versions. I have been doing this for a while, and I am getting tired of it. S. For my party: I deny using Word and am not willing to use it or an OSF clone of word like OO. If someone only can use word files, e.g., a secretary, I will need to send one. Cheers, -Jan On 5/14/07, Steve Litt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, This is a general question for all those asking about converting LyX to MS Word... Why not use MS Word from the beginning? AFAIK once you convert to Word (or rtf or whatever), you can't really get it back into LyX. Once you're in Word, you don't have LyX-LaTeX-TeX ability to lay out text and math. I'd be hard pressed to believe that subtle LaTeX tweaks in your layout file will be accurately retained by MS Word. If the person requesting your book/thesis/whatever demands it in MS Word with the idea of typesetting it him/herself, why do you care whether it's written in LyX, MS Word, OO, Vim, Emacs or Mozilla Composer? It's not like you're responsible for getting the layout right. If the person requesting your book/thesis/whatever demands it in MS Word with the idea that YOU are responsible for the typesetting, and if the requester cannot be disuaded from this unreasonable demand (after all, why can't they just accept it as a .pdf?), then it would seem to me that the easier route is to start it in MS Word, and begin that by creating a stylesheet (I think they call them templates in Word). Where I see LyX useful, and in fact completely indispensible, is for people like me, who must prolifically produce large, well typeset documents, with no help from a publisher or layout artist. Another person who could use it is one whose publisher or layout artist prefers to work with either LyX or LaTeX, especially if the publisher or layout artist gives the author a layout before the book project begins. But hard as I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word. SteveT Steve Litt Author: Universal Troubleshooting Process books and courseware http://www.troubleshooters.com/ __ Stefano Franchi Department of Philosophy Ph: (64) 9 373-7599 x83940 University Of Auckland Fax: (64) 9 373-8768 Private Bag 92019 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Auckland New Zealand
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
On Tuesday 15 May 2007 17:51, Stefano Franchi wrote: On 15 May, 2007, at 6:00 PM, Jan Peters wrote: One further reason: If you have years of work in LaTeX or LyX and you are suddenly requested to write a short article in Word - doable by cut-and-paste, would you write everything again? Or resuse your old text? For me, this is THE reason. I want and need to have access to everything I write until the end of my career. No commercial package with a closed format will ever satisfy that requirement, as I have found out, painfully, not too long ago. The only alternative to using open software and open standards is to set up a personal computing museum with carefully chosen hardware/OS/word processing versions. I have been doing this for a while, and I am getting tired of it. S. We think alike Stefano, Check out this article I wrote in 2001... http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/200104/200104.htm#_editors_desk SteveT Steve Litt Author: Universal Troubleshooting Process books and courseware http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
One further reason: If you have years of work in LaTeX or LyX and you are suddenly requested to write a short article in Word - doable by cut-and-paste, would you write everything again? Or resuse your old text? For my party: I deny using Word and am not willing to use it or an OSF clone of word like OO. If someone only can use word files, e.g., a secretary, I will need to send one. Cheers, -Jan On 5/14/07, Steve Litt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, This is a general question for all those asking about converting LyX to MS Word... Why not use MS Word from the beginning? AFAIK once you convert to Word (or rtf or whatever), you can't really get it back into LyX. Once you're in Word, you don't have LyX-LaTeX-TeX ability to lay out text and math. I'd be hard pressed to believe that subtle LaTeX tweaks in your layout file will be accurately retained by MS Word. If the person requesting your book/thesis/whatever demands it in MS Word with the idea of typesetting it him/herself, why do you care whether it's written in LyX, MS Word, OO, Vim, Emacs or Mozilla Composer? It's not like you're responsible for getting the layout right. If the person requesting your book/thesis/whatever demands it in MS Word with the idea that YOU are responsible for the typesetting, and if the requester cannot be disuaded from this unreasonable demand (after all, why can't they just accept it as a .pdf?), then it would seem to me that the easier route is to start it in MS Word, and begin that by creating a stylesheet (I think they call them templates in Word). Where I see LyX useful, and in fact completely indispensible, is for people like me, who must prolifically produce large, well typeset documents, with no help from a publisher or layout artist. Another person who could use it is one whose publisher or layout artist prefers to work with either LyX or LaTeX, especially if the publisher or layout artist gives the author a layout before the book project begins. But hard as I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word. SteveT Steve Litt Author: Universal Troubleshooting Process books and courseware http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Wonderful Dave, except for users who don't have or don't want to have or can't have Word installed in their computers. Tex2word and word2tex only work within Word, so it's not really a good solution for most of us. As for myself, after years of using Word and hating the bugs that change the document from computer to computer, I decided to give LyX/LaTeX a try using my wife as the guinea pig. She was writing a fairly large article with lots of references. I decided Word was not the way to go, so I installed LyX/LaTeX on her Mac and after the usual growing pains, everything went just smooth. So, I decided to use it for my own work, with is mostly statistics and fuzzy logics articles. I instantly fell in love with the formula typing method, and the onscreen and pdf rendering. Now my problem is that my tutor only uses Word. He doesn't want to expend his time learning LyX, even thou there's really nothing to learn (I'll do all the LaTeX job and he'll only do some writing). So, our collaborative work has to be interchangeable. The format is not really the problem, but the content, specially the formulas. So I've been trying latex2rtf and the PDF comment capacity to ease our pain. On 5/15/07, David A. Case [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, May 14, 2007, Steve Litt wrote: But hard as I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word. As others have said, one doesn't always know where a manuscript will end up when you start writing. Or you may be working with a collaborator who insists on using Word. And so on. For what it is worth, I have had *much* better luck converting Latex to Word using tex2word (http://www.chikrii.com/) than with latex2rtf, html conversion, and so on. Of course, this is neither free nor open-source, but (for me) the time I save going this route is worth the expense. ...dave case -- - Julio Rojas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
I used to use Word quite a lot and was -- overall -- not too unhappy with it. I used it, for instance, to typeset my diploma with 120 pages and plenty of figures. All this worked quite well, but as I said, I already was an experienced Word user at that time so I knew how to do it. I guess the main (non political nor domain-specific) problem many people have with Word is its /pretended/ simplicity. Yes it is simple to get a good-looking, personal letter out of it. However, if one wants to use it to write a more complex document, one really has to know the fundamental concepts and principles to be successful in the end, as well as some best-practices and work-arounds. The hierachical style system, for instance, is quite powerful, but evenly complex. Word leaves the illusion that writing a thesis is technically not different from writing a letter. And that is why many people fail (and get frustrated) using it. It is a complex tool with strengths and weaknesses; as any such tool it requires a reasonable familiarization before people can use it productively. So why did I switch to LyX? Basically I did so when I started to work on documents collaboratively in an academic community. - Platform-independence (Windows, Linux, MacOS) is a big plus here. - Even more important is BibTeX-Support, which is clearly the standard format for bibliographies used by computer scientists. - As LyX uses a text-based format we can manage our papers with a source-control system. (However, LyX could become a lot better for this by not storing editor context information in the document.) Later, I discovered are some of these nifty LaTeX packages, such as hyperref, listings or ps-tricks, that provide me means that would be nearly impossible to achieve with Word. Today I don't want to miss that power! On the other side: At times, I am still surprised how much effort it takes in LaTeX to change just a subtle detail such as a font. The things I am missing most from Word are the spell checker and the table editor. Even after four years LyX/LaTeX experience, I think that developing tables with LaTeX (and LyX) is just a big PITA. Especially if I have to present plenty of data on as-few-as-possible space, both LyX and plain LaTeX drive me crazy. Maybe this just takes another four years :-) Sometimes, I have to admit it, I still draw tables with Word or Excel and export them as EPS figures into my LyX document... Just my two cents. Daniel
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Daniel Lohmann schrieb: Sometimes, I have to admit it, I still draw tables with Word or Excel and export them as EPS figures into my LyX document... There's a tool that could be interesting for you, excel2latex: http://www.jam-software.com/freeware/xl2latex.zip http://www.jam-software.com/freeware/excel2latex_readme_en.txt (There's also a version on CTAN, but it seems to be an older one.) A similar tool for OpenOffice also exists: http://calc2latex.sourceforge.net/ Regards, Dominik.-
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Now Dom, that last one was a really useful tip. Thx!!! On 5/15/07, Dominik Waßenhoven [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Daniel Lohmann schrieb: Sometimes, I have to admit it, I still draw tables with Word or Excel and export them as EPS figures into my LyX document... There's a tool that could be interesting for you, excel2latex: http://www.jam-software.com/freeware/xl2latex.zip http://www.jam-software.com/freeware/excel2latex_readme_en.txt (There's also a version on CTAN, but it seems to be an older one.) A similar tool for OpenOffice also exists: http://calc2latex.sourceforge.net/ Regards, Dominik.- -- - Julio Rojas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Dominik Waßenhoven wrote: Daniel Lohmann schrieb: Sometimes, I have to admit it, I still draw tables with Word or Excel and export them as EPS figures into my LyX document... There's a tool that could be interesting for you, excel2latex: Yes, I know it. Unfortunately it does *exactly not* solve my problem :-) excel2latex converts structure and content of a table, but not the layout details -- which are the issue. While I know how to build some table in LyX/LaTeX, I get frequently frustrated when I have to tweak and optimize the layout (individual cell width, border styles, inner-cell margins, fonts, ...) Nevertheless, excel2latex is quite useful if you are doing your calculations in Excel anyway, have to export large tables, and do not care about the formatting. Daniel
Table layout (was Re: Why Lyx-Word?)
On May 15, 2007, at 7:54 AM, Daniel Lohmann wrote: While I know how to build some table in LyX/LaTeX, I get frequently frustrated when I have to tweak and optimize the layout (individual cell width, border styles, inner-cell margins, fonts, ...) Read Edward Tufte's _The Visual Display of Quantitative Information_ http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/books_vdqi use booktabs (support has been added in v1.5) and read its documentation as well: http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/booktabs/ William -- William Adams senior graphic designer Fry Communications
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Daniel Lohmann wrote: I guess the main (non political nor domain-specific) problem many people have with Word is its /pretended/ simplicity. Yes it is simple to get a good-looking, personal letter out of it. However, if one wants to use it to write a more complex document, one really has to know the fundamental concepts and principles to be successful in the end, as well as some best-practices and work-arounds. [snip] Yes, this is a huge problem, and not just with Word but with a lot of programs that are out there. They make it easy to do certain things and make it seem as if it should be just as easy to do other things, but in fact they make it HARDER to do those other things because all the stuff that makes it so easy to do the easy things gets in your way when you want to do something else. So why did I switch to LyX? [snip out all the praise ;-)] On the other side: At times, I am still surprised how much effort it takes in LaTeX to change just a subtle detail such as a font. Yes, but of course LaTeX isn't designed for end-users to do this kind of thing. The class is supposed to handle all of that, and the end-user is supposed to worry about content. True, there are times when one does want to do that kind of thing, and if you're self-publishing books like Steve Litt does then you wear both hats. But it's a bug, not a feature, of Word and similar programs that it makes changing fonts so easy, and so alluring. That said, once you know how to change fonts in LaTeX, it's not that hard to do. The things I am missing most from Word are the spell checker and the table editor. Even after four years LyX/LaTeX experience, I think that developing tables with LaTeX (and LyX) is just a big PITA. Especially if I have to present plenty of data on as-few-as-possible space, both LyX and plain LaTeX drive me crazy. Maybe this just takes another four years :-) Sometimes, I have to admit it, I still draw tables with Word or Excel and export them as EPS figures into my LyX document... I think work on the table editor is scheduled for 1.6.x development. Richard -- == Richard G Heck, Jr Professor of Philosophy Brown University http://frege.brown.edu/heck/ == Get my public key from http://sks.keyserver.penguin.de Hash: 0x1DE91F1E66FFBDEC Learn how to sign your email using Thunderbird and GnuPG at: http://dudu.dyn.2-h.org/nist/gpg-enigmail-howto
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
On Tuesday 15 May 2007 12:04, Richard Heck wrote: Yes, but of course LaTeX isn't designed for end-users to do this kind of thing. The class is supposed to handle all of that, and the end-user is supposed to worry about content. True, there are times when one does want to do that kind of thing, and if you're self-publishing books like Steve Litt does then you wear both hats. Thanks Richard, I think the right kind of documentation can make it much easier for LyX users to make their own paragraph and character styles, even if they're not programmers or super smart. After years of trying to figure this stuff out (and lots of bald spots where I ripped out my hair), I've come to the conclusion that you can't really understand LaTeX and use it effectively without first understanding TeX, which fortunately is VERY simple. After learning TeX, I still can't figure everything out, but at least I'm not intimidated, and I can form questions to get the info I need on the LyX list. Personally, I'd recommend everyone on this list read TeX for the Impatient, available here: http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/impatient/book.pdf After reading that book, I've never again been intimidated by LaTeX (confused, yes, but not intimidated). SteveT Steve Litt Author: Universal Troubleshooting Process books and courseware http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Personally, I'd recommend everyone on this list read TeX for the Impatient, available here: http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/impatient/book.pdf A 391 page long book for 'the impatient'? :-) Bo
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Steve Litt wrote: Personally, I'd recommend everyone on this list read TeX for the Impatient, available here: http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/impatient/book.pdf After reading that book, I've never again been intimidated by LaTeX (confused, yes, but not intimidated). LaTeX has the most bizarre syntax. I thought C++ was hard to understand. rh -- == Richard G Heck, Jr Professor of Philosophy Brown University http://frege.brown.edu/heck/ == Get my public key from http://sks.keyserver.penguin.de Hash: 0x1DE91F1E66FFBDEC Learn how to sign your email using Thunderbird and GnuPG at: http://dudu.dyn.2-h.org/nist/gpg-enigmail-howto
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
On Tue, May 15, 2007 at 12:24:31PM -0500, Bo Peng wrote: Personally, I'd recommend everyone on this list read TeX for the Impatient,available here: http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/impatient/book.pdf A 391 page long book for 'the impatient'? :-) You found one of the propblems of TeX. Andre'
Re[2]: Why Lyx-Word?
Personally, I'd recommend everyone on this list read TeX for the Impatient,available here: http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/impatient/book.pdf On Tue, May 15, 2007 at 12:24:31PM -0500, Bo Peng wrote: A 391 page long book for 'the impatient'? :-) On Tue, 15 May 2007, Andre Poenitz apparently wrote: You found one of the propblems of TeX. I find that like complaining about the length of a Visual Basic book for Word users. (Not that books on Word don't hit amazing lengths as well.) lshort URL:www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/lshort/english/lshort.pdf is a fine intro for most. Cheers, Alan Isaac
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
On Tuesday 15 May 2007 13:24, Bo Peng wrote: Personally, I'd recommend everyone on this list read TeX for the Impatient, available here: http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/impatient/book.pdf A 391 page long book for 'the impatient'? :-) Bo Hi Bo, Yeah, but it's an easy read, at least relative to all LaTeX documentation. The organization is intiutive and useful, and don't forget, this is both an instructive book and a reference, which makes it longer. And let's not forget that Lamport's The LaTeX Companion is 1090 pages. If you are *mega* impatient, you can read my article, LyX, LaTeX and TeX at http://www.troubleshooters.cxm/linux/lyx/lyx_latex_tex.htm. At 12,000 words it's the equivalent of a 24 page book. After you've read my article, there's only one additional thing you need to do: read TeX for the Impatient :-) Seriously, I wouldn't be caught dead messing with LaTeX without reading TeX for the Impatient or an equivalent TeX text. SteveT Steve Litt Author: Universal Troubleshooting Process books and courseware http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
On Tuesday 15 May 2007 16:51, Steve Litt wrote: If you are *mega* impatient, you can read my article, LyX, LaTeX and TeX at http://www.troubleshooters.cxm/linux/lyx/lyx_latex_tex.htm. Oops, I meant http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/lyx/lyx_latex_tex.htm. SteveT
Re: Table layout (was Re: Why Lyx-Word?)
William Adams schrieb: use booktabs (support has been added in v1.5) and read its documentation as well: http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/booktabs/ LyX 1.5 will support booktabs. you can check out the beta3 for LyX 1.5.0 that is released tomorrow. For infos about table formatting with LyX, have a look at the EmbeddedObjects manual (available since LyX 1.4.4 or from here: http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/DocumentationDevelopment#EmbeddedObjects ) regards Uwe
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
On 15 May, 2007, at 6:00 PM, Jan Peters wrote: One further reason: If you have years of work in LaTeX or LyX and you are suddenly requested to write a short article in Word - doable by cut-and-paste, would you write everything again? Or resuse your old text? For me, this is THE reason. I want and need to have access to everything I write until the end of my career. No commercial package with a closed format will ever satisfy that requirement, as I have found out, painfully, not too long ago. The only alternative to using open software and open standards is to set up a personal computing museum with carefully chosen hardware/OS/word processing versions. I have been doing this for a while, and I am getting tired of it. S. For my party: I deny using Word and am not willing to use it or an OSF clone of word like OO. If someone only can use word files, e.g., a secretary, I will need to send one. Cheers, -Jan On 5/14/07, Steve Litt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, This is a general question for all those asking about converting LyX to MS Word... Why not use MS Word from the beginning? AFAIK once you convert to Word (or rtf or whatever), you can't really get it back into LyX. Once you're in Word, you don't have LyX-LaTeX-TeX ability to lay out text and math. I'd be hard pressed to believe that subtle LaTeX tweaks in your layout file will be accurately retained by MS Word. If the person requesting your book/thesis/whatever demands it in MS Word with the idea of typesetting it him/herself, why do you care whether it's written in LyX, MS Word, OO, Vim, Emacs or Mozilla Composer? It's not like you're responsible for getting the layout right. If the person requesting your book/thesis/whatever demands it in MS Word with the idea that YOU are responsible for the typesetting, and if the requester cannot be disuaded from this unreasonable demand (after all, why can't they just accept it as a .pdf?), then it would seem to me that the easier route is to start it in MS Word, and begin that by creating a stylesheet (I think they call them templates in Word). Where I see LyX useful, and in fact completely indispensible, is for people like me, who must prolifically produce large, well typeset documents, with no help from a publisher or layout artist. Another person who could use it is one whose publisher or layout artist prefers to work with either LyX or LaTeX, especially if the publisher or layout artist gives the author a layout before the book project begins. But hard as I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word. SteveT Steve Litt Author: Universal Troubleshooting Process books and courseware http://www.troubleshooters.com/ __ Stefano Franchi Department of Philosophy Ph: (64) 9 373-7599 x83940 University Of Auckland Fax: (64) 9 373-8768 Private Bag 92019 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Auckland New Zealand
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
On Tuesday 15 May 2007 17:51, Stefano Franchi wrote: On 15 May, 2007, at 6:00 PM, Jan Peters wrote: One further reason: If you have years of work in LaTeX or LyX and you are suddenly requested to write a short article in Word - doable by cut-and-paste, would you write everything again? Or resuse your old text? For me, this is THE reason. I want and need to have access to everything I write until the end of my career. No commercial package with a closed format will ever satisfy that requirement, as I have found out, painfully, not too long ago. The only alternative to using open software and open standards is to set up a personal computing museum with carefully chosen hardware/OS/word processing versions. I have been doing this for a while, and I am getting tired of it. S. We think alike Stefano, Check out this article I wrote in 2001... http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/200104/200104.htm#_editors_desk SteveT Steve Litt Author: Universal Troubleshooting Process books and courseware http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Re: Why Lyx->Word?
One further reason: If you have years of work in LaTeX or LyX and you are suddenly requested to write a short article in Word - doable by cut-and-paste, would you write everything again? Or resuse your old text? For my party: I deny using Word and am not willing to use it or an OSF clone of word like OO. If someone only can use word files, e.g., a secretary, I will need to send one. Cheers, -Jan On 5/14/07, Steve Litt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi all, This is a general question for all those asking about converting LyX to MS Word... Why not use MS Word from the beginning? AFAIK once you convert to Word (or rtf or whatever), you can't really get it back into LyX. Once you're in Word, you don't have LyX->LaTeX->TeX ability to lay out text and math. I'd be hard pressed to believe that subtle LaTeX tweaks in your layout file will be accurately retained by MS Word. If the person requesting your book/thesis/whatever demands it in MS Word with the idea of typesetting it him/herself, why do you care whether it's written in LyX, MS Word, OO, Vim, Emacs or Mozilla Composer? It's not like you're responsible for getting the layout right. If the person requesting your book/thesis/whatever demands it in MS Word with the idea that YOU are responsible for the typesetting, and if the requester cannot be disuaded from this unreasonable demand (after all, why can't they just accept it as a .pdf?), then it would seem to me that the easier route is to start it in MS Word, and begin that by creating a stylesheet (I think they call them "templates" in Word). Where I see LyX useful, and in fact completely indispensible, is for people like me, who must prolifically produce large, well typeset documents, with no help from a publisher or layout artist. Another person who could use it is one whose publisher or layout artist prefers to work with either LyX or LaTeX, especially if the publisher or layout artist gives the author a layout before the book project begins. But hard as I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word. SteveT Steve Litt Author: Universal Troubleshooting Process books and courseware http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Re: Why Lyx->Word?
Wonderful Dave, except for users who don't have or don't want to have or can't have Word installed in their computers. Tex2word and word2tex only work within Word, so it's not really a good solution for most of us. As for myself, after years of using Word and hating the "bugs" that change the document from computer to computer, I decided to give LyX/LaTeX a try using my wife as the guinea pig. She was writing a fairly large article with lots of references. I decided Word was not the way to go, so I installed LyX/LaTeX on her Mac and after the usual growing pains, everything went just smooth. So, I decided to use it for my own work, with is mostly statistics and fuzzy logics articles. I instantly fell in love with the formula typing method, and the onscreen and pdf rendering. Now my problem is that my tutor only uses Word. He doesn't want to expend his time "learning" LyX, even thou there's really nothing to learn (I'll do all the LaTeX job and he'll only do some writing). So, our collaborative work has to be interchangeable. The format is not really the problem, but the content, specially the formulas. So I've been trying latex2rtf and the PDF comment capacity to ease our pain. On 5/15/07, David A. Case <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Mon, May 14, 2007, Steve Litt wrote: > > But hard as I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a project in > LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word. > As others have said, one doesn't always know where a manuscript will end up when you start writing. Or you may be working with a collaborator who insists on using Word. And so on. For what it is worth, I have had *much* better luck converting Latex to Word using tex2word (http://www.chikrii.com/) than with latex2rtf, html conversion, and so on. Of course, this is neither free nor open-source, but (for me) the time I save going this route is worth the expense. ...dave case -- - Julio Rojas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why Lyx->Word?
I used to use Word quite a lot and was -- overall -- not too unhappy with it. I used it, for instance, to typeset my diploma with >120 pages and plenty of figures. All this worked quite well, but as I said, I already was an experienced Word user at that time so I knew how to do it. I guess the main (non political nor domain-specific) problem many people have with Word is its /pretended/ simplicity. Yes it is simple to get a good-looking, personal letter out of it. However, if one wants to use it to write a more complex document, one really has to know the fundamental concepts and principles to be successful in the end, as well as some best-practices and work-arounds. The hierachical style system, for instance, is quite powerful, but evenly complex. Word leaves the illusion that writing a thesis is technically not different from writing a letter. And that is why many people fail (and get frustrated) using it. It is a complex tool with strengths and weaknesses; as any such tool it requires a reasonable familiarization before people can use it productively. So why did I switch to LyX? Basically I did so when I started to work on documents collaboratively in an academic community. - Platform-independence (Windows, Linux, MacOS) is a big plus here. - Even more important is BibTeX-Support, which is clearly the standard format for bibliographies used by computer scientists. - As LyX uses a text-based format we can manage our papers with a source-control system. (However, LyX could become a lot better for this by not storing editor context information in the document.) Later, I discovered are some of these nifty LaTeX packages, such as hyperref, listings or ps-tricks, that provide me means that would be nearly impossible to achieve with Word. Today I don't want to miss that power! On the other side: At times, I am still surprised how much effort it takes in LaTeX to change just a subtle detail such as a font. The things I am missing most from Word are the spell checker and the table editor. Even after four years LyX/LaTeX experience, I think that developing tables with LaTeX (and LyX) is just a big PITA. Especially if I have to present plenty of data on as-few-as-possible space, both LyX and plain LaTeX drive me crazy. Maybe this just takes another four years :-) Sometimes, I have to admit it, I still "draw" tables with Word or Excel and export them as EPS figures into my LyX document... Just my two cents. Daniel
Re: Why Lyx->Word?
Daniel Lohmann schrieb: Sometimes, I have to admit it, I still "draw" tables with Word or Excel and export them as EPS figures into my LyX document... There's a tool that could be interesting for you, excel2latex: http://www.jam-software.com/freeware/xl2latex.zip http://www.jam-software.com/freeware/excel2latex_readme_en.txt (There's also a version on CTAN, but it seems to be an older one.) A similar tool for OpenOffice also exists: http://calc2latex.sourceforge.net/ Regards, Dominik.-
Re: Why Lyx->Word?
Now Dom, that last one was a really useful tip. Thx!!! On 5/15/07, Dominik Waßenhoven <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Daniel Lohmann schrieb: > Sometimes, I have to admit it, I still "draw" tables with Word or > Excel and export them as EPS figures into my LyX document... There's a tool that could be interesting for you, excel2latex: http://www.jam-software.com/freeware/xl2latex.zip http://www.jam-software.com/freeware/excel2latex_readme_en.txt (There's also a version on CTAN, but it seems to be an older one.) A similar tool for OpenOffice also exists: http://calc2latex.sourceforge.net/ Regards, Dominik.- -- - Julio Rojas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Why Lyx->Word?
Dominik Waßenhoven wrote: > Daniel Lohmann schrieb: > >> Sometimes, I have to admit it, I still "draw" tables with Word or >> Excel and export them as EPS figures into my LyX document... > > There's a tool that could be interesting for you, excel2latex: Yes, I know it. Unfortunately it does *exactly not* solve my problem :-) excel2latex converts structure and content of a table, but not the layout details -- which are the issue. While I know how to build some table in LyX/LaTeX, I get frequently frustrated when I have to tweak and optimize the layout (individual cell width, border styles, inner-cell margins, fonts, ...) Nevertheless, excel2latex is quite useful if you are doing your calculations in Excel anyway, have to export large tables, and do not care about the formatting. Daniel
Table layout (was Re: Why Lyx->Word?)
On May 15, 2007, at 7:54 AM, Daniel Lohmann wrote: While I know how to build some table in LyX/LaTeX, I get frequently frustrated when I have to tweak and optimize the layout (individual cell width, border styles, inner-cell margins, fonts, ...) Read Edward Tufte's _The Visual Display of Quantitative Information_ http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/books_vdqi use booktabs (support has been added in v1.5) and read its documentation as well: http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/booktabs/ William -- William Adams senior graphic designer Fry Communications
Re: Why Lyx->Word?
Daniel Lohmann wrote: > I guess the main (non political nor domain-specific) problem many people have > with Word is its /pretended/ simplicity. Yes it is simple to get a > good-looking, personal letter out of it. However, if one wants to use it to > write a more complex document, one really has to know the fundamental > concepts and principles to be successful in the end, as well as some > best-practices and work-arounds. [snip] > Yes, this is a huge problem, and not just with Word but with a lot of programs that are out there. They make it easy to do certain things and make it seem as if it should be just as easy to do other things, but in fact they make it HARDER to do those other things because all the stuff that makes it so easy to do the easy things gets in your way when you want to do something else. > So why did I switch to LyX? > > [snip out all the praise ;-)] > > On the other side: At times, I am still surprised how much effort it > takes in LaTeX to change just a subtle detail such as a font. > Yes, but of course LaTeX isn't designed for end-users to do this kind of thing. The class is supposed to handle all of that, and the end-user is supposed to worry about content. True, there are times when one does want to do that kind of thing, and if you're self-publishing books like Steve Litt does then you wear both hats. But it's a bug, not a feature, of Word and similar programs that it makes changing fonts so easy, and so alluring. That said, once you know how to change fonts in LaTeX, it's not that hard to do. > The things I am missing most from Word are the spell checker and the > table editor. Even after four years LyX/LaTeX experience, I think that > developing tables with LaTeX (and LyX) is just a big PITA. Especially if > I have to present plenty of data on as-few-as-possible space, both LyX > and plain LaTeX drive me crazy. Maybe this just takes another four years > :-) Sometimes, I have to admit it, I still "draw" tables with Word or > Excel and export them as EPS figures into my LyX document... > I think work on the table editor is scheduled for 1.6.x development. Richard -- == Richard G Heck, Jr Professor of Philosophy Brown University http://frege.brown.edu/heck/ == Get my public key from http://sks.keyserver.penguin.de Hash: 0x1DE91F1E66FFBDEC Learn how to sign your email using Thunderbird and GnuPG at: http://dudu.dyn.2-h.org/nist/gpg-enigmail-howto
Re: Why Lyx->Word?
On Tuesday 15 May 2007 12:04, Richard Heck wrote: > Yes, but of course LaTeX isn't designed for end-users to do this kind of > thing. The class is supposed to handle all of that, and the end-user is > supposed to worry about content. True, there are times when one does > want to do that kind of thing, and if you're self-publishing books like > Steve Litt does then you wear both hats. Thanks Richard, I think the right kind of documentation can make it much easier for LyX users to make their own paragraph and character styles, even if they're not programmers or "super smart". After years of trying to figure this stuff out (and lots of bald spots where I ripped out my hair), I've come to the conclusion that you can't really understand LaTeX and use it effectively without first understanding TeX, which fortunately is VERY simple. After learning TeX, I still can't figure everything out, but at least I'm not intimidated, and I can form questions to get the info I need on the LyX list. Personally, I'd recommend everyone on this list read "TeX for the Impatient", available here: http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/impatient/book.pdf After reading that book, I've never again been intimidated by LaTeX (confused, yes, but not intimidated). SteveT Steve Litt Author: Universal Troubleshooting Process books and courseware http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Re: Why Lyx->Word?
Personally, I'd recommend everyone on this list read "TeX for the Impatient", available here: http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/impatient/book.pdf A 391 page long book for 'the impatient'? :-) Bo
Re: Why Lyx->Word?
Steve Litt wrote: > Personally, I'd recommend everyone on this list read "TeX for the Impatient", > available here: > > http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/impatient/book.pdf > > After reading that book, I've never again been intimidated by LaTeX > (confused, > yes, but not intimidated). > LaTeX has the most bizarre syntax. I thought C++ was hard to understand. rh -- == Richard G Heck, Jr Professor of Philosophy Brown University http://frege.brown.edu/heck/ == Get my public key from http://sks.keyserver.penguin.de Hash: 0x1DE91F1E66FFBDEC Learn how to sign your email using Thunderbird and GnuPG at: http://dudu.dyn.2-h.org/nist/gpg-enigmail-howto
Re: Why Lyx->Word?
On Tue, May 15, 2007 at 12:24:31PM -0500, Bo Peng wrote: > >Personally, I'd recommend everyone on this list read "TeX for the > >Impatient",available here: > > > >http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/impatient/book.pdf > > A 391 page long book for 'the impatient'? :-) You found one of the propblems of TeX. Andre'
Re[2]: Why Lyx->Word?
>>> Personally, I'd recommend everyone on this list read >>> "TeX for the Impatient",available here: >>> http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/impatient/book.pdf > On Tue, May 15, 2007 at 12:24:31PM -0500, Bo Peng wrote: >> A 391 page long book for 'the impatient'? :-) On Tue, 15 May 2007, Andre Poenitz apparently wrote: > You found one of the propblems of TeX. I find that like complaining about the length of a Visual Basic book for Word users. (Not that books on Word don't hit amazing lengths as well.) lshort is a fine intro for most. Cheers, Alan Isaac
Re: Why Lyx->Word?
On Tuesday 15 May 2007 13:24, Bo Peng wrote: > > Personally, I'd recommend everyone on this list read "TeX for the > > Impatient", available here: > > > > http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/impatient/book.pdf > > A 391 page long book for 'the impatient'? :-) > > Bo Hi Bo, Yeah, but it's an easy read, at least relative to all LaTeX documentation. The organization is intiutive and useful, and don't forget, this is both an instructive book and a reference, which makes it longer. And let's not forget that Lamport's "The LaTeX Companion" is 1090 pages. If you are *mega* impatient, you can read my article, "LyX, LaTeX and TeX" at http://www.troubleshooters.cxm/linux/lyx/lyx_latex_tex.htm. At 12,000 words it's the equivalent of a 24 page book. After you've read my article, there's only one additional thing you need to do: read "TeX for the Impatient" :-) Seriously, I wouldn't be caught dead messing with LaTeX without reading "TeX for the Impatient" or an equivalent TeX text. SteveT Steve Litt Author: Universal Troubleshooting Process books and courseware http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Re: Why Lyx->Word?
On Tuesday 15 May 2007 16:51, Steve Litt wrote: > If you are *mega* impatient, you can read my article, "LyX, LaTeX and TeX" > at http://www.troubleshooters.cxm/linux/lyx/lyx_latex_tex.htm. Oops, I meant http://www.troubleshooters.com/linux/lyx/lyx_latex_tex.htm. SteveT
Re: Table layout (was Re: Why Lyx->Word?)
William Adams schrieb: use booktabs (support has been added in v1.5) and read its documentation as well: http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/booktabs/ LyX 1.5 will support booktabs. you can check out the beta3 for LyX 1.5.0 that is released tomorrow. For infos about table formatting with LyX, have a look at the EmbeddedObjects manual (available since LyX 1.4.4 or from here: http://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/DocumentationDevelopment#EmbeddedObjects ) regards Uwe
Re: Why Lyx->Word?
On 15 May, 2007, at 6:00 PM, Jan Peters wrote: One further reason: If you have years of work in LaTeX or LyX and you are suddenly requested to write a short article in Word - doable by cut-and-paste, would you write everything again? Or resuse your old text? For me, this is THE reason. I want and need to have access to everything I write until the end of my career. No commercial package with a closed format will ever satisfy that requirement, as I have found out, painfully, not too long ago. The only alternative to using open software and open standards is to set up a personal computing museum with carefully chosen hardware/OS/word processing versions. I have been doing this for a while, and I am getting tired of it. S. For my party: I deny using Word and am not willing to use it or an OSF clone of word like OO. If someone only can use word files, e.g., a secretary, I will need to send one. Cheers, -Jan On 5/14/07, Steve Litt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi all, This is a general question for all those asking about converting LyX to MS Word... Why not use MS Word from the beginning? AFAIK once you convert to Word (or rtf or whatever), you can't really get it back into LyX. Once you're in Word, you don't have LyX->LaTeX->TeX ability to lay out text and math. I'd be hard pressed to believe that subtle LaTeX tweaks in your layout file will be accurately retained by MS Word. If the person requesting your book/thesis/whatever demands it in MS Word with the idea of typesetting it him/herself, why do you care whether it's written in LyX, MS Word, OO, Vim, Emacs or Mozilla Composer? It's not like you're responsible for getting the layout right. If the person requesting your book/thesis/whatever demands it in MS Word with the idea that YOU are responsible for the typesetting, and if the requester cannot be disuaded from this unreasonable demand (after all, why can't they just accept it as a .pdf?), then it would seem to me that the easier route is to start it in MS Word, and begin that by creating a stylesheet (I think they call them "templates" in Word). Where I see LyX useful, and in fact completely indispensible, is for people like me, who must prolifically produce large, well typeset documents, with no help from a publisher or layout artist. Another person who could use it is one whose publisher or layout artist prefers to work with either LyX or LaTeX, especially if the publisher or layout artist gives the author a layout before the book project begins. But hard as I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word. SteveT Steve Litt Author: Universal Troubleshooting Process books and courseware http://www.troubleshooters.com/ __ Stefano Franchi Department of Philosophy Ph: (64) 9 373-7599 x83940 University Of Auckland Fax: (64) 9 373-8768 Private Bag 92019 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Auckland New Zealand
Re: Why Lyx->Word?
On Tuesday 15 May 2007 17:51, Stefano Franchi wrote: > On 15 May, 2007, at 6:00 PM, Jan Peters wrote: > > One further reason: If you have years of work in LaTeX or LyX and you > > are suddenly requested to write a short article in Word - doable by > > cut-and-paste, would you write everything again? Or resuse your old > > text? > > For me, this is THE reason. I want and need to have access to > everything I write until the end of my career. No commercial package > with a closed format will ever satisfy that requirement, as I have > found out, painfully, not too long ago. The only alternative to using > open software and open standards is to set up a personal computing > museum with carefully chosen hardware/OS/word processing versions. I > have been doing this for a while, and I am getting tired of it. > > > S. We think alike Stefano, Check out this article I wrote in 2001... http://www.troubleshooters.com/tpromag/200104/200104.htm#_editors_desk SteveT Steve Litt Author: Universal Troubleshooting Process books and courseware http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Why Lyx-Word?
Hi all, This is a general question for all those asking about converting LyX to MS Word... Why not use MS Word from the beginning? AFAIK once you convert to Word (or rtf or whatever), you can't really get it back into LyX. Once you're in Word, you don't have LyX-LaTeX-TeX ability to lay out text and math. I'd be hard pressed to believe that subtle LaTeX tweaks in your layout file will be accurately retained by MS Word. If the person requesting your book/thesis/whatever demands it in MS Word with the idea of typesetting it him/herself, why do you care whether it's written in LyX, MS Word, OO, Vim, Emacs or Mozilla Composer? It's not like you're responsible for getting the layout right. If the person requesting your book/thesis/whatever demands it in MS Word with the idea that YOU are responsible for the typesetting, and if the requester cannot be disuaded from this unreasonable demand (after all, why can't they just accept it as a .pdf?), then it would seem to me that the easier route is to start it in MS Word, and begin that by creating a stylesheet (I think they call them templates in Word). Where I see LyX useful, and in fact completely indispensible, is for people like me, who must prolifically produce large, well typeset documents, with no help from a publisher or layout artist. Another person who could use it is one whose publisher or layout artist prefers to work with either LyX or LaTeX, especially if the publisher or layout artist gives the author a layout before the book project begins. But hard as I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word. SteveT Steve Litt Author: Universal Troubleshooting Process books and courseware http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
On Mon, 14 May 2007, Steve Litt wrote: But hard as I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word. Interface preference. Or availability (maybe author has limited access to Word). Jeremy C. Reed
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Steve Litt wrote: Hi all, This is a general question for all those asking about converting LyX to MS Word... Why not use MS Word from the beginning? [snip] But hard as I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word. I don't always know where the paper will end up, anyway---a journal, a collection of papers, or whatever---let alone in what format they'll want it. Even if I did, I find it much more comfortable to write in LyX, even when I'm not doing logic, and the LyX--Word conversion is, as you say, one-way. So I write in LyX and if I have to convert to Word later, so be it. I'll do it at the very end, and I get all the advantages of LyX between here and there. Of course, there's another reason: Word for Linux hasn't been released yet, and I wouldn't be spending my hard-earned money on it even if it were. Of course, OOo is an option, but then OOo to Word conversions aren't always trivial, either, and I still vastly prefer writing in LyX to writing in OOo. Why? Because I find WYSIWYG so distracting, even if using stylesheets gives you some of the benefit of WYSIWYM. Hey, I loved WordPerfect back when you had the blue background and stuff. Richard -- == Richard G Heck, Jr Professor of Philosophy Brown University http://frege.brown.edu/heck/ == Get my public key from http://sks.keyserver.penguin.de Hash: 0x1DE91F1E66FFBDEC Learn how to sign your email using Thunderbird and GnuPG at: http://dudu.dyn.2-h.org/nist/gpg-enigmail-howto
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
On Monday 14 May 2007 13:42, you wrote: Of course, OOo is an option, but then OOo to Word conversions aren't always trivial, either, and I still vastly prefer writing in LyX to writing in OOo. One man's opinion: OOo word processing (as opposed to presentation) is an abomination. If my only choice were OOo or LyX for the authoring process, understanding that either would end up as Winword, I too would author in LyX. SteveT [clip] Hey, I loved WordPerfect back when you had the blue background and stuff. I hear you Brother! I used to make WP5.1 walk and talk. My WP5.1 authored Troubleshooting: Tools, Tips and Techniques has chapter page decorations you couldn't touch with WP for Windows, MS Word, OOo, LyX, or AFAIK straight LaTeX. Of course, with WP5.1, I had to fine tune the table of contents, fine tune every chapter beginning to start on an odd page, and fine tune certain other things. LyX makes most of the (non frontmatter) fine tuning a thing of the past. SteveT
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
On Monday 14 May 2007 13:33, Jeremy C. Reed wrote: On Mon, 14 May 2007, Steve Litt wrote: But hard as I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word. Interface preference. Or availability (maybe author has limited access to Word). Makes sense, especially the latter. SteveT
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Richard Heck schrieb: Steve Litt wrote: Hi all, This is a general question for all those asking about converting LyX to MS Word... Why not use MS Word from the beginning? [snip] But hard as I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word. I don't always know where the paper will end up, anyway---a journal, a collection of papers, or whatever---let alone in what format they'll want it. Even if I did, I find it much more comfortable to write in LyX, I agree with Richard on both points. Another point for scientists is that until your manuscript is accepted somewhere, it is floating around the web or on conference CDs and nobody except yourself is responsible for the layout. (Or where your footnotes are placed, if you know what I mean...) -sven
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
On Mon, 14 May 2007, Steve Litt apparently wrote: I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word. Interface, interoperability, and reliability. I cannot write in Word. Too slow. Large equations are a nightmare. Not every publisher will accept Word. (But in many fields this is not a problem.) Word still gets confused by lots of pictures and equations. It can be crashed by these or mishandle references. It's getting better, but still, a colleague was just unable to convert a 60 page (that's right, 60!) Word document to PDF because of the equations. For now, it is largely a matter of which pain you find most acceptable: pain during writing, or postponed pain during coversion. Cheers, Alan Isaac
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Steve Litt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi all, This is a general question for all those asking about converting LyX to MS Word... Why not use MS Word from the beginning? Because it sucks writing math in MS Word. Andreas
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
I've been playing around with Lyx for about three months now. I am coming from a FrameMaker environment. I can not tell you why Lyx-Word, but I've been doing FM-Word for years. And the reason was/is clear to me: it is far easy accomplish Word requirements working with FM (I do hope it will the same with Lyx) then converting to Word (mif2go isa great option) than working with Word itself. It crazy to try to work with plenty of maps, graphics, equations, images and so on, so for. FM manage that all without a glitch. Now, I'm moving to Lyx trying to find an option available to Linux, Mac and Windows users. Of course, being Lyx an FOSS initiative is of huge important: it will not be possible for our group to buy commercial licenses, but it is possible to try to contribute to a FOSS initiative. Just the two cents of a Lyx newcomer. Cheers, Ricardo --Ricardo RodríguezYour XEN ICT Team Steve Litt[EMAIL PROTECTED] 14/5/2007 19:30 Hi all,This is a general question for all those asking about converting LyX to MS Word...Why not use MS Word from the beginning? AFAIK once you convert to Word (or rtf or whatever), you can't really get it back into LyX. Once you're in Word, you don't have LyX-LaTeX-TeX ability to lay out text and math. I'd be hard pressed to believe that subtle LaTeX tweaks in your layout file will be accurately retained by MS Word.If the person requesting your book/thesis/whatever demands it in MS Word with the idea of typesetting it him/herself, why do you care whether it's written in LyX, MS Word, OO, Vim, Emacs or Mozilla Composer? It's not like you're responsible for getting the layout right.If the person requesting your book/thesis/whatever demands it in MS Word with the idea that YOU are responsible for the typesetting, and if the requester cannot be disuaded from this unreasonable demand (after all, why can't they just accept it as a .pdf?), then it would seem to me that the easier route is to start it in MS Word, and begin that by creating a stylesheet (I think they call them "templates" in Word).Where I see LyX useful, and in fact completely indispensible, is for people like me, who must prolifically produce large, well typeset documents, with no help from a publisher or layout artist. Another person who could use it is one whose publisher or layout artist prefers to work with either LyX or LaTeX, especially if the publisher or layout artist gives the author a layout before the book project begins.But hard as I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word.SteveTSteve LittAuthor: Universal Troubleshooting Process books and coursewarehttp://www.troubleshooters.com/
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
On Monday 14 May 2007 12:30, Steve Litt wrote: Hi all, This is a general question for all those asking about converting LyX to MS Word... Why not use MS Word from the beginning? Steve, The documents I write tend to be technical reports with lots of figures. The report I'm working on at the moment is currently at 28 pages, with 25 figures and one table. It will probably end up at about 100 pages with about 80 figures and ten tables. With Lyx I can get the figures in easily (even if they are Grace files) and cross-reference them no matter which page they end up on. With MS Word (and OO.org), getting figures the size I want them is a nightmare, and half the time the caption is on the next page. That's probably my biggest problem. I won't even go into pagination that changes every time you open the file on a different computer, margins which change for no apparent reason every second paragraph, etc. If someone wants my document in MS Word format, appearance is obviously not important. So I'll export from Lyx in ASCII, load it into OO.org, stick all the figures at the end, and save in MS Word format. I estimate my time to produce a useful document using Lyx is about half as long as to produce the same document in MS Word. -- L. R. Denham
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
On Mon, May 14, 2007, Steve Litt wrote: But hard as I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word. As others have said, one doesn't always know where a manuscript will end up when you start writing. Or you may be working with a collaborator who insists on using Word. And so on. For what it is worth, I have had *much* better luck converting Latex to Word using tex2word (http://www.chikrii.com/) than with latex2rtf, html conversion, and so on. Of course, this is neither free nor open-source, but (for me) the time I save going this route is worth the expense. ...dave case
Why Lyx-Word?
Hi all, This is a general question for all those asking about converting LyX to MS Word... Why not use MS Word from the beginning? AFAIK once you convert to Word (or rtf or whatever), you can't really get it back into LyX. Once you're in Word, you don't have LyX-LaTeX-TeX ability to lay out text and math. I'd be hard pressed to believe that subtle LaTeX tweaks in your layout file will be accurately retained by MS Word. If the person requesting your book/thesis/whatever demands it in MS Word with the idea of typesetting it him/herself, why do you care whether it's written in LyX, MS Word, OO, Vim, Emacs or Mozilla Composer? It's not like you're responsible for getting the layout right. If the person requesting your book/thesis/whatever demands it in MS Word with the idea that YOU are responsible for the typesetting, and if the requester cannot be disuaded from this unreasonable demand (after all, why can't they just accept it as a .pdf?), then it would seem to me that the easier route is to start it in MS Word, and begin that by creating a stylesheet (I think they call them templates in Word). Where I see LyX useful, and in fact completely indispensible, is for people like me, who must prolifically produce large, well typeset documents, with no help from a publisher or layout artist. Another person who could use it is one whose publisher or layout artist prefers to work with either LyX or LaTeX, especially if the publisher or layout artist gives the author a layout before the book project begins. But hard as I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word. SteveT Steve Litt Author: Universal Troubleshooting Process books and courseware http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
On Mon, 14 May 2007, Steve Litt wrote: But hard as I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word. Interface preference. Or availability (maybe author has limited access to Word). Jeremy C. Reed
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Steve Litt wrote: Hi all, This is a general question for all those asking about converting LyX to MS Word... Why not use MS Word from the beginning? [snip] But hard as I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word. I don't always know where the paper will end up, anyway---a journal, a collection of papers, or whatever---let alone in what format they'll want it. Even if I did, I find it much more comfortable to write in LyX, even when I'm not doing logic, and the LyX--Word conversion is, as you say, one-way. So I write in LyX and if I have to convert to Word later, so be it. I'll do it at the very end, and I get all the advantages of LyX between here and there. Of course, there's another reason: Word for Linux hasn't been released yet, and I wouldn't be spending my hard-earned money on it even if it were. Of course, OOo is an option, but then OOo to Word conversions aren't always trivial, either, and I still vastly prefer writing in LyX to writing in OOo. Why? Because I find WYSIWYG so distracting, even if using stylesheets gives you some of the benefit of WYSIWYM. Hey, I loved WordPerfect back when you had the blue background and stuff. Richard -- == Richard G Heck, Jr Professor of Philosophy Brown University http://frege.brown.edu/heck/ == Get my public key from http://sks.keyserver.penguin.de Hash: 0x1DE91F1E66FFBDEC Learn how to sign your email using Thunderbird and GnuPG at: http://dudu.dyn.2-h.org/nist/gpg-enigmail-howto
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
On Monday 14 May 2007 13:42, you wrote: Of course, OOo is an option, but then OOo to Word conversions aren't always trivial, either, and I still vastly prefer writing in LyX to writing in OOo. One man's opinion: OOo word processing (as opposed to presentation) is an abomination. If my only choice were OOo or LyX for the authoring process, understanding that either would end up as Winword, I too would author in LyX. SteveT [clip] Hey, I loved WordPerfect back when you had the blue background and stuff. I hear you Brother! I used to make WP5.1 walk and talk. My WP5.1 authored Troubleshooting: Tools, Tips and Techniques has chapter page decorations you couldn't touch with WP for Windows, MS Word, OOo, LyX, or AFAIK straight LaTeX. Of course, with WP5.1, I had to fine tune the table of contents, fine tune every chapter beginning to start on an odd page, and fine tune certain other things. LyX makes most of the (non frontmatter) fine tuning a thing of the past. SteveT
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
On Monday 14 May 2007 13:33, Jeremy C. Reed wrote: On Mon, 14 May 2007, Steve Litt wrote: But hard as I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word. Interface preference. Or availability (maybe author has limited access to Word). Makes sense, especially the latter. SteveT
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Richard Heck schrieb: Steve Litt wrote: Hi all, This is a general question for all those asking about converting LyX to MS Word... Why not use MS Word from the beginning? [snip] But hard as I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word. I don't always know where the paper will end up, anyway---a journal, a collection of papers, or whatever---let alone in what format they'll want it. Even if I did, I find it much more comfortable to write in LyX, I agree with Richard on both points. Another point for scientists is that until your manuscript is accepted somewhere, it is floating around the web or on conference CDs and nobody except yourself is responsible for the layout. (Or where your footnotes are placed, if you know what I mean...) -sven
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
On Mon, 14 May 2007, Steve Litt apparently wrote: I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word. Interface, interoperability, and reliability. I cannot write in Word. Too slow. Large equations are a nightmare. Not every publisher will accept Word. (But in many fields this is not a problem.) Word still gets confused by lots of pictures and equations. It can be crashed by these or mishandle references. It's getting better, but still, a colleague was just unable to convert a 60 page (that's right, 60!) Word document to PDF because of the equations. For now, it is largely a matter of which pain you find most acceptable: pain during writing, or postponed pain during coversion. Cheers, Alan Isaac
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
Steve Litt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi all, This is a general question for all those asking about converting LyX to MS Word... Why not use MS Word from the beginning? Because it sucks writing math in MS Word. Andreas
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
I've been playing around with Lyx for about three months now. I am coming from a FrameMaker environment. I can not tell you why Lyx-Word, but I've been doing FM-Word for years. And the reason was/is clear to me: it is far easy accomplish Word requirements working with FM (I do hope it will the same with Lyx) then converting to Word (mif2go isa great option) than working with Word itself. It crazy to try to work with plenty of maps, graphics, equations, images and so on, so for. FM manage that all without a glitch. Now, I'm moving to Lyx trying to find an option available to Linux, Mac and Windows users. Of course, being Lyx an FOSS initiative is of huge important: it will not be possible for our group to buy commercial licenses, but it is possible to try to contribute to a FOSS initiative. Just the two cents of a Lyx newcomer. Cheers, Ricardo --Ricardo RodríguezYour XEN ICT Team Steve Litt[EMAIL PROTECTED] 14/5/2007 19:30 Hi all,This is a general question for all those asking about converting LyX to MS Word...Why not use MS Word from the beginning? AFAIK once you convert to Word (or rtf or whatever), you can't really get it back into LyX. Once you're in Word, you don't have LyX-LaTeX-TeX ability to lay out text and math. I'd be hard pressed to believe that subtle LaTeX tweaks in your layout file will be accurately retained by MS Word.If the person requesting your book/thesis/whatever demands it in MS Word with the idea of typesetting it him/herself, why do you care whether it's written in LyX, MS Word, OO, Vim, Emacs or Mozilla Composer? It's not like you're responsible for getting the layout right.If the person requesting your book/thesis/whatever demands it in MS Word with the idea that YOU are responsible for the typesetting, and if the requester cannot be disuaded from this unreasonable demand (after all, why can't they just accept it as a .pdf?), then it would seem to me that the easier route is to start it in MS Word, and begin that by creating a stylesheet (I think they call them "templates" in Word).Where I see LyX useful, and in fact completely indispensible, is for people like me, who must prolifically produce large, well typeset documents, with no help from a publisher or layout artist. Another person who could use it is one whose publisher or layout artist prefers to work with either LyX or LaTeX, especially if the publisher or layout artist gives the author a layout before the book project begins.But hard as I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word.SteveTSteve LittAuthor: Universal Troubleshooting Process books and coursewarehttp://www.troubleshooters.com/
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
On Monday 14 May 2007 12:30, Steve Litt wrote: Hi all, This is a general question for all those asking about converting LyX to MS Word... Why not use MS Word from the beginning? Steve, The documents I write tend to be technical reports with lots of figures. The report I'm working on at the moment is currently at 28 pages, with 25 figures and one table. It will probably end up at about 100 pages with about 80 figures and ten tables. With Lyx I can get the figures in easily (even if they are Grace files) and cross-reference them no matter which page they end up on. With MS Word (and OO.org), getting figures the size I want them is a nightmare, and half the time the caption is on the next page. That's probably my biggest problem. I won't even go into pagination that changes every time you open the file on a different computer, margins which change for no apparent reason every second paragraph, etc. If someone wants my document in MS Word format, appearance is obviously not important. So I'll export from Lyx in ASCII, load it into OO.org, stick all the figures at the end, and save in MS Word format. I estimate my time to produce a useful document using Lyx is about half as long as to produce the same document in MS Word. -- L. R. Denham
Re: Why Lyx-Word?
On Mon, May 14, 2007, Steve Litt wrote: But hard as I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word. As others have said, one doesn't always know where a manuscript will end up when you start writing. Or you may be working with a collaborator who insists on using Word. And so on. For what it is worth, I have had *much* better luck converting Latex to Word using tex2word (http://www.chikrii.com/) than with latex2rtf, html conversion, and so on. Of course, this is neither free nor open-source, but (for me) the time I save going this route is worth the expense. ...dave case
Why Lyx->Word?
Hi all, This is a general question for all those asking about converting LyX to MS Word... Why not use MS Word from the beginning? AFAIK once you convert to Word (or rtf or whatever), you can't really get it back into LyX. Once you're in Word, you don't have LyX->LaTeX->TeX ability to lay out text and math. I'd be hard pressed to believe that subtle LaTeX tweaks in your layout file will be accurately retained by MS Word. If the person requesting your book/thesis/whatever demands it in MS Word with the idea of typesetting it him/herself, why do you care whether it's written in LyX, MS Word, OO, Vim, Emacs or Mozilla Composer? It's not like you're responsible for getting the layout right. If the person requesting your book/thesis/whatever demands it in MS Word with the idea that YOU are responsible for the typesetting, and if the requester cannot be disuaded from this unreasonable demand (after all, why can't they just accept it as a .pdf?), then it would seem to me that the easier route is to start it in MS Word, and begin that by creating a stylesheet (I think they call them "templates" in Word). Where I see LyX useful, and in fact completely indispensible, is for people like me, who must prolifically produce large, well typeset documents, with no help from a publisher or layout artist. Another person who could use it is one whose publisher or layout artist prefers to work with either LyX or LaTeX, especially if the publisher or layout artist gives the author a layout before the book project begins. But hard as I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word. SteveT Steve Litt Author: Universal Troubleshooting Process books and courseware http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Re: Why Lyx->Word?
On Mon, 14 May 2007, Steve Litt wrote: > But hard as I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a > project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word. Interface preference. Or availability (maybe author has limited access to Word). Jeremy C. Reed
Re: Why Lyx->Word?
Steve Litt wrote: > Hi all, > > This is a general question for all those asking about converting LyX to MS > Word... > > Why not use MS Word from the beginning? [snip] But hard as I rack my brains, > I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to > MS Word. > I don't always know where the paper will end up, anyway---a journal, a collection of papers, or whatever---let alone in what format they'll want it. Even if I did, I find it much more comfortable to write in LyX, even when I'm not doing logic, and the LyX-->Word conversion is, as you say, one-way. So I write in LyX and if I have to convert to Word later, so be it. I'll do it at the very end, and I get all the advantages of LyX between here and there. Of course, there's another reason: Word for Linux hasn't been released yet, and I wouldn't be spending my hard-earned money on it even if it were. Of course, OOo is an option, but then OOo to Word conversions aren't always trivial, either, and I still vastly prefer writing in LyX to writing in OOo. Why? Because I find WYSIWYG so distracting, even if using stylesheets gives you some of the benefit of WYSIWYM. Hey, I loved WordPerfect back when you had the blue background and stuff. Richard -- == Richard G Heck, Jr Professor of Philosophy Brown University http://frege.brown.edu/heck/ == Get my public key from http://sks.keyserver.penguin.de Hash: 0x1DE91F1E66FFBDEC Learn how to sign your email using Thunderbird and GnuPG at: http://dudu.dyn.2-h.org/nist/gpg-enigmail-howto
Re: Why Lyx->Word?
On Monday 14 May 2007 13:42, you wrote: > Of course, OOo is an option, but then OOo to Word conversions > aren't always trivial, either, and I still vastly prefer writing in LyX > to writing in OOo. One man's opinion: OOo word processing (as opposed to presentation) is an abomination. If my only choice were OOo or LyX for the authoring process, understanding that either would end up as Winword, I too would author in LyX. SteveT [clip] > Hey, I loved WordPerfect back when you had the blue background and stuff. I hear you Brother! I used to make WP5.1 walk and talk. My WP5.1 authored "Troubleshooting: Tools, Tips and Techniques" has chapter page decorations you couldn't touch with WP for Windows, MS Word, OOo, LyX, or AFAIK straight LaTeX. Of course, with WP5.1, I had to fine tune the table of contents, fine tune every chapter beginning to start on an odd page, and fine tune certain other things. LyX makes most of the (non frontmatter) fine tuning a thing of the past. SteveT
Re: Why Lyx->Word?
On Monday 14 May 2007 13:33, Jeremy C. Reed wrote: > On Mon, 14 May 2007, Steve Litt wrote: > > But hard as I rack my brains, I can't think of a reason to start a > > project in LyX, and THEN convert it to MS Word. > > Interface preference. > > Or availability (maybe author has limited access to Word). Makes sense, especially the latter. SteveT
Re: Why Lyx->Word?
Richard Heck schrieb: > Steve Litt wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> This is a general question for all those asking about converting LyX to MS >> Word... >> >> Why not use MS Word from the beginning? [snip] But hard as I rack my brains, >> I can't think of a reason to start a project in LyX, and THEN convert it to >> MS Word. >> > I don't always know where the paper will end up, anyway---a journal, a > collection of papers, or whatever---let alone in what format they'll > want it. Even if I did, I find it much more comfortable to write in LyX, I agree with Richard on both points. Another point for scientists is that until your manuscript is accepted somewhere, it is floating around the web or on conference CDs and nobody except yourself is responsible for the layout. (Or where your footnotes are placed, if you know what I mean...) -sven
