Re: [M100] DVI cable

[Mike Stein]

Just watch out for those non-standard or mislabeled interface pins ;-)
  - Original Message - 
  From: Brian White 
  To: m...@bitchin100.com 
  Sent: Friday, October 27, 2017 12:21 AM
  Subject: Re: [M100] DVI cable


  Well now I've added the twists to my cable and the encouraging development is 
that my M100 no longer crashes from using it. :) 


  But alas the dvi still does not boot beyond the step where it asks for the 
system disk.


  The drive light comes on early like the manual says to expect, the head seeks 
a tiny bit at power-on, but the main motor does not spin, nor does anything 
else happen in reaction to closing the door latch.


  Oh well. I have another dvi on the way in, and I might just possibly be able 
to diagnose this one eventually. I can at least try the drive by itself in 
another machine, and test another drive in the dvi, and test if the dvi is 
activating the motor-on signal on the floppy cable.


  Since the dvi does "boot" it's own firmware enough to display the first two 
prompts, that does suggest a lot must be right. Cpu, ram, roms, etc. Me and a 
meter and the service manual have a long date some weekend I guess. :)


  -- 
  bkw


  On Oct 27, 2017 12:06 AM, "Mike Stein"  wrote:

You're welcome ;-)

Why do I bother... ;-)
  - Original Message - 
  From: Randall Kindig 
  To: m...@bitchin100.com 
  Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 11:21 PM
  Subject: Re: [M100] DVI cable


  Brian, 


  thank you so much for all the detailed information.  It’s much 
appreciated that you took the time to document what you did.  It’s great when 
members of these groups freely share information and are happy to help others.


  I’m hoping Ian Mavric will take this information and create a working 
cable.


  Randy Kindig

  host Floppy Days Podcast floppydays.com




On Oct 26, 2017, at 4:48 PM, Brian White  wrote:


I just recieved this new info from a member on the facebook group. 

http://tandy.wiki/Disk/Video_Interface#Work_in_progress...

This cable looks home-made too, but he claims he knows it works and has 
used it himself.

Since he not only used the numbers but also a clear picture and 
description of plain physical location, there is no ambiguity about it.

Randy: THIS would seem to be the answer to your question finally. You 
can duplicate this guys cable using the same parts I linked to on that same 
wiki page. But ignore my tentative directions and pictures and go by Ted 
Saari's. (I'll update my directions and pics when I have actually verified it 
for myself, until then I'll just leave the "not yet verified, see below" note 
on mine. But it looks like this is what it's going to end up being.)


It flies in the face of what I said so far! :) His cable has twists in 
it, so that tells me that his DIP connector is pinned the same as mine, because 
I will have to make twists like that too, in order to get the pinout he 
describes.

The first cable I made was actually like that, and didn't boot either, 
but I convinced myself it was because the twists were wrong and I cut the end 
off that cable and scrapped it. So, I predict I still won't get my DVI working 
even after I duplicate this supposedly known-good example.

I have another DVI on the way in, so maybe that one will work.

Glad I ordered 10 dip connectors instead of 1!


-- 
bkw

Re: [M100] DVI cable

[Mike Stein]

Awww... thanks!
;-)

It is a confusing issue though; my head was starting to hurt half way through 
my "discussion" with Brian...

m
  - Original Message - 
  From: John R. Hogerhuis 
  To: m...@bitchin100.com 
  Sent: Friday, October 27, 2017 1:06 AM
  Subject: Re: [M100] DVI cable






  On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 10:01 PM, Mike Stein  wrote:



  I believed you Mike :-)


  -- John. 

Re: [M100] DVI cable

[Mike Stein]

> That sounds more like a disk drive or disk problem. 

Indeed, assuming that he's following the correct boot sequence.

BTW, I have a couple of copies of the single sheet addendum to the DVI 
instructions:
"Notice to Users of Radio Shack's DISK/VIDEO INTERFACE"

It  lists the M100 and T200 files on the system diskette and adds the T200 Kill 
and Restart BASIC commands; is it on line somewhere or should I scan it?

m
  - Original Message - 
  From: John R. Hogerhuis 
  To: m...@bitchin100.com 
  Sent: Friday, October 27, 2017 12:31 AM
  Subject: Re: [M100] DVI cable


  That sounds more like a disk drive or disk problem. 


  I assume that is farther than it gets without any cable connected at all?


  — John. 

Re: [M100] DVI cable

[John R. Hogerhuis]

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 10:01 PM, Mike Stein  wrote:

>
>

I believed you Mike :-)

-- John.

Re: [M100] DVI cable

[Mike Stein]

  - Original Message - 
  From: Brian White 
  To: m...@bitchin100.com 
  Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 9:11 PM
  Subject: Re: [M100] DVI cable

  Given that, how is it at all remarkable that I consider myself to know 
nothing until I actually see it work in my own hands, or at least see someone 
else's equally incontestable proof showing it working?

  -- 
  bkw

  Here ya go:

Re: [M100] DVI cable

[John R. Hogerhuis]

That sounds more like a disk drive or disk problem.

I assume that is farther than it gets without any cable connected at all?

— John.

Re: [M100] DVI cable

[Brian White]

Well now I've added the twists to my cable and the encouraging development
is that my M100 no longer crashes from using it. :)

But alas the dvi still does not boot beyond the step where it asks for the
system disk.

The drive light comes on early like the manual says to expect, the head
seeks a tiny bit at power-on, but the main motor does not spin, nor does
anything else happen in reaction to closing the door latch.

Oh well. I have another dvi on the way in, and I might just possibly be
able to diagnose this one eventually. I can at least try the drive by
itself in another machine, and test another drive in the dvi, and test if
the dvi is activating the motor-on signal on the floppy cable.

Since the dvi does "boot" it's own firmware enough to display the first two
prompts, that does suggest a lot must be right. Cpu, ram, roms, etc. Me and
a meter and the service manual have a long date some weekend I guess. :)

-- 
bkw

On Oct 27, 2017 12:06 AM, "Mike Stein"  wrote:

> You're welcome ;-)
>
> Why do I bother... ;-)
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Randall Kindig 
> *To:* m...@bitchin100.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 26, 2017 11:21 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [M100] DVI cable
>
> Brian,
>
> thank you so much for all the detailed information.  It’s much appreciated
> that you took the time to document what you did.  It’s great when members
> of these groups freely share information and are happy to help others.
>
> I’m hoping Ian Mavric will take this information and create a working
> cable.
>
> Randy Kindig
> host Floppy Days Podcast floppydays.com
>
>
> On Oct 26, 2017, at 4:48 PM, Brian White  wrote:
>
> I just recieved this new info from a member on the facebook group.
>
> http://tandy.wiki/Disk/Video_Interface#Work_in_progress...
>
> This cable looks home-made too, but he claims he knows it works and has
> used it himself.
>
> Since he not only used the numbers but also a clear picture and
> description of plain physical location, there is no ambiguity about it.
>
> Randy: THIS would seem to be the answer to your question finally. You can
> duplicate this guys cable using the same parts I linked to on that same
> wiki page. But ignore my tentative directions and pictures and go by Ted
> Saari's. (I'll update my directions and pics when I have actually verified
> it for myself, until then I'll just leave the "not yet verified, see below"
> note on mine. But it looks like this is what it's going to end up being.)
>
> It flies in the face of what I said so far! :) His cable has twists in it,
> so that tells me that his DIP connector is pinned the same as mine, because
> I will have to make twists like that too, in order to get the pinout he
> describes.
>
> The first cable I made was actually like that, and didn't boot either, but
> I convinced myself it was because the twists were wrong and I cut the end
> off that cable and scrapped it. So, I predict I still won't get my DVI
> working even after I duplicate this supposedly known-good example.
>
> I have another DVI on the way in, so maybe that one will work.
>
> Glad I ordered 10 dip connectors instead of 1!
>
> --
> bkw
>
>
>

Re: [M100] Upload: Model 100 Small-C library 0.0.7

[John R. Hogerhuis]

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Willard Goosey  wrote:

>
>
> (*)Man you should read some of the rants in TCJ and comp.os.cpm. C and
>

By TCJ you mean The Computer Journal, right?

I loved that magazine. Still have my complete set of back issues.

-- John.

Re: [M100] DVI cable

[Mike Stein]

You're welcome ;-)

Why do I bother... ;-)
  - Original Message - 
  From: Randall Kindig 
  To: m...@bitchin100.com 
  Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 11:21 PM
  Subject: Re: [M100] DVI cable


  Brian,


  thank you so much for all the detailed information.  It’s much appreciated 
that you took the time to document what you did.  It’s great when members of 
these groups freely share information and are happy to help others.


  I’m hoping Ian Mavric will take this information and create a working cable.


  Randy Kindig

  host Floppy Days Podcast floppydays.com




On Oct 26, 2017, at 4:48 PM, Brian White  wrote:


I just recieved this new info from a member on the facebook group.

http://tandy.wiki/Disk/Video_Interface#Work_in_progress...

This cable looks home-made too, but he claims he knows it works and has 
used it himself.

Since he not only used the numbers but also a clear picture and description 
of plain physical location, there is no ambiguity about it.

Randy: THIS would seem to be the answer to your question finally. You can 
duplicate this guys cable using the same parts I linked to on that same wiki 
page. But ignore my tentative directions and pictures and go by Ted Saari's. 
(I'll update my directions and pics when I have actually verified it for 
myself, until then I'll just leave the "not yet verified, see below" note on 
mine. But it looks like this is what it's going to end up being.)


It flies in the face of what I said so far! :) His cable has twists in it, 
so that tells me that his DIP connector is pinned the same as mine, because I 
will have to make twists like that too, in order to get the pinout he describes.

The first cable I made was actually like that, and didn't boot either, but 
I convinced myself it was because the twists were wrong and I cut the end off 
that cable and scrapped it. So, I predict I still won't get my DVI working even 
after I duplicate this supposedly known-good example.

I have another DVI on the way in, so maybe that one will work.

Glad I ordered 10 dip connectors instead of 1!


-- 
bkw

Re: [M100] DVI cable

[Mike Stein]

> Is the pinout in one or the other tech reference actually completely 
> backwards? And no one has made loud note of that?

Yes.

>From my post, and previous posts on the same issue:
"The confusion stems from the fact that ... looking into the pin side male and 
female connectors are reversed..."
but
..."the DVI male pins are numbered the same as a female socket."

Not LOUD enough? ;-)

That's why I said "The bottom line is that regardless of numbering the M100 
cable has to connect pin 1 of the DIP plug to pin 1 of the 2x20 pin header".

ICs and DIP plug pin numbers are pretty well standard and dual-row headers 
usually have an arrow and a key denoting pin 1 so I thought that would be 
concise enough without going into the confusing details of the relative pin 
numbers. But if you insist:

FWIW the T102 and 200 BUS connector pinout also does not follow 'normal' usage 
for a female connector; compare the illustration on page B-2 (PDF p.64) in the 
T200 manual to this:



This pinout is generally accepted as the 'standard' and the connectors 
generally have an arrow beside pin 1, but not always:

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/106426/standard-nomenclature-for-2-row-connector-numbering-schemes

The T102/200 cable is a good example because both ends are the same type of 
connector: Forget about pin numbers and male vs. female; your example of the 
/WR signal is on the DVI's 12th pin from the right opposite the key; on the 
T102 & T200 it is on the 12th pin from the left on the side with the key, which 
is why it has to be swapped. Which one is right and which one is wrong?

> "I consider myself to know nothing until I actually see it work in my own 
> hands, or at least see someone else's equally incontestable proof showing it 
> working?"

Well, I thought that the label on the picture "Original M100 cable; note pin 1 
connected to wire #1" would strongly suggest that this was the cable originally 
supplied with the DVI and you could probably take for granted that it does 
indeed work. And why would I post a picture of a cable using the other type of 
DIP plug and the required adapter if it didn't work?

Did you really need a picture of the DVI connected, reading a disk and 
displaying some text to be convinced?

I was admittedly a little miffed that after my (too?) lengthy explanations of 
why your original suggestion would probably not work and I took the trouble of 
digging out my DVI cables and even opening the DIP connectors to show the 
difference between the original and a homemade version you apparently ignored 
it all and when your cable predictably didn't work you assumed that it must be 
the DVI and not your cable. 

Why did I bother?

BTW, the reason for the 'probably' was that I couldn't tell for certain from 
the pictures that the connectors you linked to were the wrong type for a 
straight-through cable, but they sure looked like it.

OK; you're from Missouri and my explanations could have been clearer, but hey, 
as long as folks can get through the confusing posts and issues and know how to 
make a correct cable, all's well (but you should really correct the Wiki.. ;-)

m
-
- Original Message - 
  From: Brian White 
  To: m...@bitchin100.com 
  Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 9:11 PM
  Subject: Re: [M100] DVI cable






  On Oct 26, 2017 7:48 PM, "Mike Stein"  wrote:

Nice write-up except for the obviously still incorrect first part.

I really don't get why this is such an issue; the correct cable connects 
pin 1 at one end to pin 1 at the other end, end of story.

  How is it so simple when you have never seen an official/original cable, or 
even a known-good home-made one, nor even have a known-good DVI to ensure that 
the cable is the only variable in the system?

  I was about to say you didn't post anything as definitive or explicit as you 
suggest now, but I just re-read you first post in this thread and I have to 
admit you did describe a simple rule to follow, and you didn't say it as "I 
thought it was...", you declared it.


  Mostly I guess it's just that no one had said anything at all on the topic 
(recently, in response to Randy's question I mean) at the time I decided to 
start figuring out the answer from first principles, and had already started 
gathering clues and references and deductions by the time you said that, so to 
me it somehow didn't register as being any firmer than just another possible 
idea that might be right, but still needs to be verified. You didn't actually 
say something like "Here is my actual cable which I actually used last month, 
and here is it's pinout."

  On top of that, before making the straight-through cable, I actually made one 
with the twists, and it didn't boot.

  On top of that, do the tech references not say what I say they say? AD0 is on 
pin 3 on the M100 clear as day, and on pin 6 on the DVI clear as day. (and by 
using AD0, we eliminate the possibility that one 

Re: [M100] DVI cable

[Randall Kindig]

Brian,

thank you so much for all the detailed information.  It’s much appreciated that 
you took the time to document what you did.  It’s great when members of these 
groups freely share information and are happy to help others.

I’m hoping Ian Mavric will take this information and create a working cable.

Randy Kindig
host Floppy Days Podcast floppydays.com 


> On Oct 26, 2017, at 4:48 PM, Brian White  wrote:
> 
> I just recieved this new info from a member on the facebook group.
> 
> http://tandy.wiki/Disk/Video_Interface#Work_in_progress. 
> ..
> 
> This cable looks home-made too, but he claims he knows it works and has used 
> it himself.
> 
> Since he not only used the numbers but also a clear picture and description 
> of plain physical location, there is no ambiguity about it.
> 
> Randy: THIS would seem to be the answer to your question finally. You can 
> duplicate this guys cable using the same parts I linked to on that same wiki 
> page. But ignore my tentative directions and pictures and go by Ted Saari's. 
> (I'll update my directions and pics when I have actually verified it for 
> myself, until then I'll just leave the "not yet verified, see below" note on 
> mine. But it looks like this is what it's going to end up being.)
> 
> It flies in the face of what I said so far! :) His cable has twists in it, so 
> that tells me that his DIP connector is pinned the same as mine, because I 
> will have to make twists like that too, in order to get the pinout he 
> describes.
> 
> The first cable I made was actually like that, and didn't boot either, but I 
> convinced myself it was because the twists were wrong and I cut the end off 
> that cable and scrapped it. So, I predict I still won't get my DVI working 
> even after I duplicate this supposedly known-good example.
> 
> I have another DVI on the way in, so maybe that one will work.
> 
> Glad I ordered 10 dip connectors instead of 1!
> 
> -- 
> bkw

Re: [M100] Upload: Model 100 Small-C library 0.0.7

[Daryl Tester]

On 27/10/17 07:58, Willard Goosey wrote:


(*)Man you should read some of the rants in TCJ and comp.os.cpm. C and
the 8080 are just not a good match. C is very stack oriented and the
8080 is... not.  LDSI+LHLX go a long way, even (perhaps especially!) in
library code, towards correcting this.


+1 - justified ranting, nonetheless.

--
Regards,
 Daryl Tester
 Handcrafted Computers Pty. Ltd.

Re: [M100] DVI cable

[Brian White]

On Oct 26, 2017 7:48 PM, "Mike Stein"  wrote:

Nice write-up except for the obviously still incorrect first part.

I really don't get why this is such an issue; the correct cable connects
pin 1 at one end to pin 1 at the other end, end of story.


How is it so simple when you have never seen an official/original cable, or
even a known-good home-made one, nor even have a known-good DVI to ensure
that the cable is the only variable in the system?

I was about to say you didn't post anything as definitive or explicit as
you suggest now, but I just re-read you first post in this thread and I
have to admit you did describe a simple rule to follow, and you didn't say
it as "I thought it was...", you declared it.

Mostly I guess it's just that no one had said anything at all on the topic
(recently, in response to Randy's question I mean) at the time I decided to
start figuring out the answer from first principles, and had already
started gathering clues and references and deductions by the time you said
that, so to me it somehow didn't register as being any firmer than just
another possible idea that might be right, but still needs to be verified.
You didn't actually say something like "Here is my actual cable which I
actually used last month, and here is it's pinout."

On top of that, before making the straight-through cable, I actually made
one with the twists, and it didn't boot.

On top of that, do the tech references not say what I say they say? AD0 is
on pin 3 on the M100 clear as day, and on pin 6 on the DVI clear as day.
(and by using AD0, we eliminate the possibility that one side or the other
starts counting from 1, they both have an AD0). I linked to all the
references I pulled from, right to th pag numbers, and for convenience I
copied the pinout diagrams into a single side by side picture right on that
wiki page. I mean, how is it at all irrational to refer to the tech
reference? They are all known to have an error or two scattered in them,
but they are still largely a correct reference. Is the pinout in one or the
other tech reference actually completely backwards? And no one has made
loud note of that?

Given that, how is it at all remarkable that I consider myself to know
nothing until I actually see it work in my own hands, or at least see
someone else's equally incontestable proof showing it working?

-- 
bkw

Re: [M100] DVI cable

[Mike Stein]

Nice write-up except for the obviously still incorrect first part.

I really don't get why this is such an issue; the correct cable connects pin 1 
at one end to pin 1 at the other end, end of story. Connecting pin 1 to pin 2 
as you want to do will not work as I've pointed out several times; why would 
you assume the DVI is at fault when your cable is wrong?

Fortunately the 5V and ground connections are swappable so you probably won't 
cause any damage.

Unfortunately a 24DIP plug that connects pin 1 to wire #1 seems to be pretty 
rare, and you may have to swap the pins, either the way described in the link 
below or with a little adapter cable described later in the blog; thanks for 
attributing the picture BTW.

What's odd is that there seem to be all sorts of 28-pin IDC plugs that have the 
correct configuration, i.e. pin 1 connects to the first wire; why not the 
40-pin versions...

I'm glad that someone else seems to have at last almost convinced you, since my 
words and pictures were falling on deaf ears... ;-)

BTW, my pictures were of the original cables that came with my DVI when I 
bought it brand new, plus an extra long one that I made myself.

Too bad you scrapped your cable; as I pointed out you could have used your T102 
cable to correct the pinout.

PIN 1 to PIN 1 ! Simple as that.

m

  - Original Message - 
  From: Brian White 
  To: m...@bitchin100.com 
  Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2017 5:00 PM
  Subject: Re: [M100] DVI cable


  Something somewhere fails to handle those trailing dots in that url, so let's 
remove them...

  http://tandy.wiki/Disk/Video_Interface#Work_in_progress


  -- 
  bkw


  On Oct 26, 2017 4:48 PM, "Brian White"  wrote:

I just recieved this new info from a member on the facebook group.

http://tandy.wiki/Disk/Video_Interface#Work_in_progress...

This cable looks home-made too, but he claims he knows it works and has 
used it himself.

Since he not only used the numbers but also a clear picture and description 
of plain physical location, there is no ambiguity about it.

Randy: THIS would seem to be the answer to your question finally. You can 
duplicate this guys cable using the same parts I linked to on that same wiki 
page. But ignore my tentative directions and pictures and go by Ted Saari's. 
(I'll update my directions and pics when I have actually verified it for 
myself, until then I'll just leave the "not yet verified, see below" note on 
mine. But it looks like this is what it's going to end up being.)


It flies in the face of what I said so far! :) His cable has twists in it, 
so that tells me that his DIP connector is pinned the same as mine, because I 
will have to make twists like that too, in order to get the pinout he describes.

The first cable I made was actually like that, and didn't boot either, but 
I convinced myself it was because the twists were wrong and I cut the end off 
that cable and scrapped it. So, I predict I still won't get my DVI working even 
after I duplicate this supposedly known-good example.

I have another DVI on the way in, so maybe that one will work.

Glad I ordered 10 dip connectors instead of 1!


-- 
bkw

Re: [M100] Upload: Model 100 Small-C library 0.0.7

[Willard Goosey]

On Thu, 26 Oct 2017 16:25:30 -0400
Stephen Adolph  wrote:

> Willard,
> so, small-c programs get compiled on a PC and then run on the M100?
>
Yes.
 
> Is there any way  you could imagine getting small-C into an option
> ROM?
> 

That's actually an interesting question, and I really don't know the
answer. The original Small-C compilers were always fully self-hosting,
so for them the answer would be yes. This particular compiler
(SmallC-85)? I don't know. It has been tweaked to compile without
warnings on modern GCC, which isn't very tolerant of the "abuses" that
Small-C considers correct (and the only working) syntax. 

I think a Small-C compiler would fit in optROM, it originated on 16K
CP/M machines. If SmallC-85 has been hopelessly ANSIfied, we could
start with a vanilla 8080 SmallC. I'd hate to loose the 8085
"undocumented" opcodes though, ldsi/lhlx makes C almost efficient on
the 8080!(*)

Then, of course, we'd need an optROM assembler & linker too. As a proud
REX owner I'd be tempted to target the compiler to ROM2 and say "deal
with it!" :-) I seriously doubt as8085/aslink would make good porting
targets -- for Pi3 they weigh in at 79K and 64K each...

The Library would have to be completely redone to turn it into a optROM
lib, which could be done. I've considered this, but I haven't created
my own optROM yet and would have to start there. The library would also
have to be expanded to be much more like STDIO instead of M100ROM. AND
then converted to the syntax of whatever assembler ends up being used...

So. I've spent every moment of my free time on this for the last 7
months, and almost have it up to beta status. Getting the whole package
into an optROM? At least quadruple that timeframe. 

Fascinating idea, but probably impractical for a lone hacker. Maybe if a
group got together and tackled it...

(*)Man you should read some of the rants in TCJ and comp.os.cpm. C and
the 8080 are just not a good match. C is very stack oriented and the
8080 is... not.  LDSI+LHLX go a long way, even (perhaps especially!) in
library code, towards correcting this.


Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goo...@sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard

Re: [M100] DVI cable

[Brian White]

Something somewhere fails to handle those trailing dots in that url, so
let's remove them...

http://tandy.wiki/Disk/Video_Interface#Work_in_progress

-- 
bkw

On Oct 26, 2017 4:48 PM, "Brian White"  wrote:

> I just recieved this new info from a member on the facebook group.
>
> http://tandy.wiki/Disk/Video_Interface#Work_in_progress...
>
> This cable looks home-made too, but he claims he knows it works and has
> used it himself.
>
> Since he not only used the numbers but also a clear picture and
> description of plain physical location, there is no ambiguity about it.
>
> Randy: THIS would seem to be the answer to your question finally. You can
> duplicate this guys cable using the same parts I linked to on that same
> wiki page. But ignore my tentative directions and pictures and go by Ted
> Saari's. (I'll update my directions and pics when I have actually verified
> it for myself, until then I'll just leave the "not yet verified, see below"
> note on mine. But it looks like this is what it's going to end up being.)
>
> It flies in the face of what I said so far! :) His cable has twists in it,
> so that tells me that his DIP connector is pinned the same as mine, because
> I will have to make twists like that too, in order to get the pinout he
> describes.
>
> The first cable I made was actually like that, and didn't boot either, but
> I convinced myself it was because the twists were wrong and I cut the end
> off that cable and scrapped it. So, I predict I still won't get my DVI
> working even after I duplicate this supposedly known-good example.
>
> I have another DVI on the way in, so maybe that one will work.
>
> Glad I ordered 10 dip connectors instead of 1!
>
> --
> bkw
>

Re: [M100] Upload: Model 100 Small-C library 0.0.7

[Stephen Adolph]

Willard,
so, small-c programs get compiled on a PC and then run on the M100?

Is there any way  you could imagine getting small-C into an option ROM?

..Steve

On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 12:40 AM, Willard Goosey  wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Jul 2017 15:38:19 -0500
> Douglas Quagliana  wrote:
>
> > Hi Willard,
> >Can you add an wrapper entry for the FINDFREQ ROM routine that
> > finds the frequency
> > of the cassette port input?
> >
> Sure! Humm, this is the end of my days off for the week, depending on
> business this might take a couple days... Also, not sure how I'd test
> this?
>
> (OK weird low-level cassette port stuff, I'm down. And here I thought
> nobody used the cassette stuff anymore! :)
>
> OK, since you want this, do you want to specify the high/low flag by
> poking FF8E directly or do you want it as a parameter? Just int
> findfreq() or int findfreq(flag)? Looks like I can do that either way.
> And you just want the contents of reg.C returned? And probably -1 on
> break.
>
>
> > Here's the info from the Covington map file
> >
> > 6FDBH -  Find the frequency of the cassette port.  This routine
> > measures the duration from the start to the stop of half of
> > the wave presented on the cassette port.  The result is the
> > number of 29 t-state cycles required to find the end of the
> > wave.  The byte at FF8EH determines if the count will trigger
> > on a high or low pulse.  For example, a 1200 hz signal, which
> > would take 416 ms to go through half of the wave, would cause
> > this routine to exit with a value aound 35.  If the sound
> > option is turned on (see FF44H), this routine will click the
> > beeper on each call.  Note:  Although this routine analyses
> > the cassette port in 29 T-state intervals, the actual routine
> > requires much more time to execute.
> >  Exit:
> > C - Number of 29 T-state cycles
> > A - Destroyed
> >C flag - Set if the routine was canceled by a shift break
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Douglas
> >
>
> Yay, a feature request! I'm so happy!
>
> Willard
> --
> Willard Goosey  goo...@sdc.org
> Socorro, New Mexico, USA
> I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
>   -- R.E. Howard
>

Re: [M100] ROM call: MAKFIL (2239h) help plz

[Stephen Adolph]

awesome! congrats!

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 4:14 PM, Willard Goosey  wrote:

> On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 17:06:17 -0400
> Stephen Adolph  wrote:
>
>
> > 1)  you are using the wrong starting location.  Think you need to use
> > the ASCTAB (DOSTART?) location which is the lowest first byte of .DO
> > file data. 2)  you need to ensure your new directory entry gets the
> > correct (incorrect) address , meaning you need to trick LNKFIL
> > (DIROK?) to order the file names correctly.  in this case ASCTAB-1.
> > in this way the current directory entry, that points to ASCTAB, will
> > be ordered and linked correctly.
>
> Yep, did it this way and it works! Yay!
>
> I dunno, when you have to lie to the OS to get it to work... Must be
> Microsoft. ;-)
>
> Willard
> --
> Willard Goosey  goo...@sdc.org
> Socorro, New Mexico, USA
> I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
>   -- R.E. Howard
>

Re: [M100] ROM call: MAKFIL (2239h) help plz

[Willard Goosey]

On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 17:06:17 -0400
Stephen Adolph  wrote:

 
> 1)  you are using the wrong starting location.  Think you need to use
> the ASCTAB (DOSTART?) location which is the lowest first byte of .DO
> file data. 2)  you need to ensure your new directory entry gets the
> correct (incorrect) address , meaning you need to trick LNKFIL
> (DIROK?) to order the file names correctly.  in this case ASCTAB-1.
> in this way the current directory entry, that points to ASCTAB, will
> be ordered and linked correctly.

Yep, did it this way and it works! Yay!

I dunno, when you have to lie to the OS to get it to work... Must be
Microsoft. ;-)

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goo...@sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard

Re: [M100] new project

[John R. Hogerhuis]

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 12:22 PM, Brian Brindle  wrote:

> Hey John,
>
> To move RAM images around I"m using REX, creating a backup of the RAM
> image and saving it to "disk" or in this case Mcomm or my NADS. I like
> Mcomm because the directory it saves everything in on the phone is
> automatically backed up (by another application) to dropbox right now. Then
> I load that image in VirtualT on the PC.
>
>
Ah. Well, I did write a program to sync time with NADSBox.

http://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=Synchronize_Time_with_your_NADS

-- John.

Re: [M100] new project

[Brian Brindle]

Hey John,

To move RAM images around I"m using REX, creating a backup of the RAM image
and saving it to "disk" or in this case Mcomm or my NADS. I like Mcomm
because the directory it saves everything in on the phone is automatically
backed up (by another application) to dropbox right now. Then I load that
image in VirtualT on the PC.

The times when I need an accurately set clock are not always when I'm
backing things up. Time drift is a constant issue when tracking sats with
the M100 in the middle of a field with radio gear strapped all over you. I
have several external devices that can set the clock for me in times like
this but it requires loading a basic program to do so. Not difficult mind
you but not quite just a power cycle either.

I like Thought in SuperROM but wrote some perl scripts to manipulate Idea!
data files many years ago so am pretty set on using it. Your talking to a
guy who still uses his 34 year old PC so I'm pretty resistant to change.

Brian


On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 3:10 PM, John R. Hogerhuis  wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 11:59 AM, Brian Brindle 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> The RTC request is based on the way I utilize my M100s. I'm constantly
>> doing a total wipe on them for one reason or another
>>
>
>
> What file service do you use if any? You mentioned moving images around to
> VIrtualT does that mean you use TBACK?
>
> I could add a time sync extension to either TBACK or LaddieAlpha.
>
> If TBACK, I could make it skip the clock when restoring an image.
>
>
>> but I use Idea! pretty heavily and rely on a correct date/time. Just
>> always thought it would be nice if it was always correct since it's
>> something I constantly forget to set.
>>
>>
> Have you used Thought in SuperROM?
>
> Idea is compiled BASIC code, IIRC, Thought is MUCH faster.
>
> -- John.
>
>
>

Re: [M100] new project

[John R. Hogerhuis]

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 11:59 AM, Brian Brindle  wrote:

>
> The RTC request is based on the way I utilize my M100s. I'm constantly
> doing a total wipe on them for one reason or another
>


What file service do you use if any? You mentioned moving images around to
VIrtualT does that mean you use TBACK?

I could add a time sync extension to either TBACK or LaddieAlpha.

If TBACK, I could make it skip the clock when restoring an image.


> but I use Idea! pretty heavily and rely on a correct date/time. Just
> always thought it would be nice if it was always correct since it's
> something I constantly forget to set.
>
>
Have you used Thought in SuperROM?

Idea is compiled BASIC code, IIRC, Thought is MUCH faster.

-- John.

Re: [M100] new project

[Brian Brindle]

This does look awesome Stephen so forgive the selfish RTC request - I don't
want to seem like I'm diminishing all the other incredibly amazing / mind
blowing things you are already bringing. I don't know how I've gone this
long without having a REX but I did and I've spent the last two weeks
positively giddy with my new capabilities. I used to have different M100s
for different projects and would grab the appropriate one when I wanted to
do that thing. My (now horribly neglected) satellite tracking project for
example. Because of the size of the Keplerian database and my lack of
ambition to do anything like load stuff from SD card I just kept it all
loaded on one unit. Now I can pop that image on the current M100 I'm
working on, copy it to my phone, sync via dropbox or GoogleDrive and play
with that image on VirtualT then reverse the process to get it back on
physical hardware. It's downright amazing. Everyone needs a REX.

The RTC request is based on the way I utilize my M100s. I'm constantly
doing a total wipe on them for one reason or another but I use Idea! pretty
heavily and rely on a correct date/time. Just always thought it would be
nice if it was always correct since it's something I constantly forget to
set.

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 9:05 PM, Stephen Adolph 
wrote:

> I looked a bit at a supercap but...we have a battery...we just need a
> wire!.
>
> What would one need an rtc For?
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 25, 2017, Brian Brindle  wrote:
>
>> Any thoughts of a battery backup and or a RTC?
>>
>> On Oct 25, 2017 6:49 PM, "Josh Malone"  wrote:
>>
>>> Wow. This sounds very cool! I've never actually run CP/M, and I'm not
>>> sure that running it on Model-T is super exciting (probably just because I
>>> haven't tried it) but the capabilities of the REXCPM sound awesome.
>>>
>>> I'm fine with a 3-wire install. Hell, any number of wires to the mobo
>>> would not be a turn-off for me using it; basically as long as trace-cutting
>>> isn't involved it won't bother me.
>>>
>>> I'm assuming the CPLD and SRAM are on the other side? Man, that board is
>>> gonna be crammed! :)
>>>
>>> -Josh
>>>
>>

[M100] Does anybody have an XR4?

[Mike Stein]

By any chance does anyone on the list own an EME XR4?

m

Re: [M100] ROM call: MAKFIL (2239h) help plz

[Willard Goosey]

On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 17:06:17 -0400
Stephen Adolph  wrote:

> Boy I wish we could all agree on variable names in M100!

It would be nice, yes. I don't have an origin comment on the offending
labels, which usually means either I had to name them or they were
named in the M100 TechRef. Also why I included the addresses. Should I
convert to the NEC labels?
> 
> here is my assessment of what you've done-
> 
> 1)  you are using the wrong starting location.  Think you need to use
> the ASCTAB (DOSTART?) location which is the lowest first byte of .DO
> file data. 2)  you need to ensure your new directory entry gets the
> correct (incorrect) address , meaning you need to trick LNKFIL
> (DIROK?) to order the file names correctly.  in this case ASCTAB-1.
> in this way the current directory entry, that points to ASCTAB, will
> be ordered and linked correctly.
> 
> make sense?

Yes, I missed the trick that you had to put ASCTAB-1 in the directory
entry but start writing at ASCTAB. That *should* make it work.

Man I tried just about every combination EXCEPT that. 

> and I agree with John, without the NEC reference I would never have
> gotten REX to work.
> 
One of my excuses for spending so much time with retro-computers is
that they did things differently, and those different paths are worth
learning from. This is a good example, this whole
sorta-a-RAMdisk-but-in-place stuff is fascinating but very fragile and
complicated. Easy to see why nobody does it this way anymore! ;-)

Thanks again,
Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goo...@sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard

Re: [M100] ROM call: MAKFIL (2239h) help plz

[Willard Goosey]

On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 16:59:15 -0400
Stephen Adolph  wrote:

> Here is some code to look at.
> do you run LNKFIL afterwards? you must!

To be clear, what is the M100 address of LNKFIL? 

It is my impression that it's 2146h but I could have the wrong routine.
> 
> note you must ensure the address of the new file name in the ram
> directory is 1 less than the actual starting location to ensure
> LNKFIL orders the file names correctly.
> 
THAT's the trick I was missing. I picked up the -1 thing from
the NEC prog ref but I missed that I wasn't supposed to start writing
at -1!

Thank you for the code, that's definitely going to help!

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goo...@sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard

Re: [M100] ROM call: MAKFIL (2239h) help plz

[Willard Goosey]

On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 20:55:38 +
"John R. Hogerhuis"  wrote:

> I might have mentioned it before but the best reference on file
> management is the NEC programmers reference. Lots of sample code and
> unintentionally humorous English explication.
>
Yes on both counts. And the word you're looking for is "Engrish". :-)
It's a thing, google it and be amused. 
 
> — John.

(at it's best, my Japanese was a LOT worse so I shouldn't poke fun)
Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goo...@sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard

Re: [M100] ROM call: MAKFIL (2239h) help plz

[Willard Goosey]

On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 16:40:49 -0400
Stephen Adolph  wrote:

> willard, would commented assembly help?
> I have this working in REX Manager...
> 
I'd say YES PLEASE!!! but you already posted it so instead I'll say
THANK YOU

So I was supposed to be off today, and could've responded earlier...
except our token 16-year-old decided she couldn't be bothered to come
to work today. :-(

Willard
-- 
Willard Goosey  goo...@sdc.org
Socorro, New Mexico, USA
I search my heart and find Cimmeria, land of Darkness and the Night.
  -- R.E. Howard