Re: [M100] parallel printer...

[Gregory McGill]

that's what I have in my store
https://www.arcadeshopper.com/wp/store/#!/Retro-Printer-Centronics-Printer-module-V3-raspberry-pi-or-equivalent-required/p/190216087/category=0

On Tue, Sep 27, 2022 at 4:39 PM Ken Gregg  wrote:

>
> I use the Retro-Printer module (https://www.retroprinter.com/) attached
> to a Raspberry Pi to print over a wired network to one of two modern laser
> printers or one modern inkjet printer. You can also just send the output to
> PDF files. From the computer's perspective, it emulates an old EPSON impact
> printer.
>
> It takes some fiddling to get the module configured correctly for all the
> printers you want to print to, but it works.
>
> I have successfully used it with a Tandy 102 and a TRS-80 Model I.
> On 9/27/2022 4:16 PM, Will Senn wrote:
>
> Will the m100 work with pretty much any parallel port printer or does it
> have to have a specific driver? What kinds or printers work with the m100
> these days?
>
> Will
>
>

[M100] Tandy 600 ram

[Brian K. White]

I've now added an all through-hole version of the TANDY 600 ram card, 
because why not? There's even room for sockets and the BOM includes 
them. https://github.com/bkw777/TANDY_600_RAM


Also changed to a simpler circuit that uses just 3 AND gates instead of 
an 8:3 encoder. The new idea isn't proven yet but I have already ordered 
pcbs to test.


I have received pcbs of my initial tiny version that still used a 74148 
just in the tiny pcb, but I'm not even going to build one now. But it is 
comical seeing that tiny pcb next to the original official ram card. The 
new pcb is entirely within the footprint of just the *connector*.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Lm2r2ftutK75Xy9K8
(newest at the bottom)

And I'm now working on yet a different idea that dispenses with the 
special $6 Eurocard connector and supplies both banks from a single ram 
chip on a single pcb that just lays across both connectors and uses only 
plain vertical male pins. That will be the simplest and cheapest way to 
max out a 600.


So for multiple reasons don't rush to order anything yet.

That said, the current pcbway and oshpark links are still the tested 
previous version and it's safe to order that if you don't want to wait. 
It works and there is no reason not to use it. The new versions won't 
work any better.


--
bkw

Re: [M100] parallel printer...

[Ken Gregg]

I use the Retro-Printer module (https://www.retroprinter.com/) attached 
to a Raspberry Pi to print over a wired network to one of two modern 
laser printers or one modern inkjet printer. You can also just send the 
output to PDF files. From the computer's perspective, it emulates an old 
EPSON impact printer.


It takes some fiddling to get the module configured correctly for all 
the printers you want to print to, but it works.


I have successfully used it with a Tandy 102 and a TRS-80 Model I.

On 9/27/2022 4:16 PM, Will Senn wrote:
Will the m100 work with pretty much any parallel port printer or does 
it have to have a specific driver? What kinds or printers work with 
the m100 these days?


Will

Re: [M100] parallel printer...

[Gregory McGill]

any text ascii printer with a serial or centronics parallel interface

nothing modern will work directly unless it specifically says DOS
support..  the m100 sends no codes no protocols. just ascii text

I have a pi hat in my store that emulates a dos printer on the pi and
outputs PDF files that you can print on the pi or your pc with a modern
printer

On Tue, Sep 27, 2022 at 4:16 PM Will Senn  wrote:

> Will the m100 work with pretty much any parallel port printer or does it
> have to have a specific driver? What kinds or printers work with the m100
> these days?
>
> Will
>

[M100] parallel printer...

[Will Senn]

Will the m100 work with pretty much any parallel port printer or does it 
have to have a specific driver? What kinds or printers work with the 
m100 these days?


Will

Re: [M100] transferring files both directions

[John R. Hogerhuis]

My solution to this has been to use typical laplink serial cables (built in
gender changer and db25 + db9 options on each end) plus thin hood gender
changers.

The advantage is the durable bits are the more expensive parts... the
cables and the m100 port since they're female.

Pins eventually get bent on the cheap gender changer, throw it away and get
another.

But all the ways work it's just a matter of personal preference. Plus I
don't know if the laplink cables are still available. The ones I like I
stocked up on when they were cheap and available.

-- John.

Re: [M100] transferring files both directions

[Brian K. White]

On 9/27/22 14:48, Will Senn wrote:

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the details, it'll take me a while to work through this,


Things have been figured out and added to by by countless people for 40 
years, so by now there is just a lot of answer for every question.



 but
it sounds believable and achievable. I have purchased one of the ideal 
cables you mention. If I understand correctly, the ideal cable should 
work fine hooked up between my dell and the m100 because the dell has a 
db-9 serial port. My mac on the other hand doesn't so I require a 
USB-Serial adapter to make like the Mac has a DB-9 serial port? Then, I 
should be able to start talking to the m100 via the ideal cable and 
USB-Serial connector plus any gender changer needed between cable and 
USB-Serial adapter, right?


No gender changer needed, because that is one of the items that defines 
"ideal" in this case. The M100 has a 
mostly-normal-but-one-thing-backwards serial port, and the one backwards 
thing is the connector is female. So, it's an uncommon combination to 
have a 9-25 null-modem cable with a male db25, but they are made and so 
it's just a matter of hunting down specific models.


Almost any pc that has a 9-pin com port conforms to a standard that 
eventually became standard. Exceptions are very exceptional, like the 
Cambridge Z88. Anything else can be counted on. usb-serial adapters come 
in both male & female, and you can find special units with weird wiring, 
but generally any usb-serial adapter with a male plug is designed to 
essentially take the place of the legacy com ports built into old 
motherboards.


So, you can consider the 9-pin side the same whether it's a pc with real 
com ports of a usb adapter. The only detail left to consider is a 
less-important one of the screws vs nuts. By rights any male 9-pin 
should have nuts and the cable should have screws, but on this detail a 
lot of usb adapters are pretty random. So if you wanty everything nice 
you have to actually check the pictures and make sure the adapter you're 
looking at has nuts or screws. On that wiki page I listed some choice 
usb adapters with everything ideal.


So yes the same serial cable works the same way either to an older pc 
with a real com port or a newer pc that needs a usb adapter, which is 
again one of the things that defines "ideal" to me.


There are actually bespoke cables you can buy that are usb on one end 
and db25 male DCE on the other end which would go right from a pc to a 
m100 in one piece, but that cable would be so non-standard that it's no 
good for anything else. I prefer keeping the usb part separate, and bog 
standard, so it can be replaced later with any other, used for other 
things, etc, and the serial cable likewise, even though it is a little 
bit special, at least it can be used equally with a usb adapter or 
directly to a pc that doesn't need a usb adapter.


If you want to add a 3rd piece, you can get even more bog-standard by 
using an ordinary modem cable, which has the right plugs on both ends 
but just isn't null-modem wired inside. You can add the null-modem part 
in the form of a little 9-pin mini-null-modem. They are no longer as 
dirt common as they used to be, but you can still get them. The 
advantage to this idea is a 9-25 modem cable is hands down the most 
common ubiquitous kind of cable. Not special at all. This places the 
extra part in the middle of the cable instead of hanging off the back of 
the 100, and is physically pretty small. If you're not using a usb 
adapter then it IS hanging off the back of the pc, but at least it's 
small and doesn't cause too much stick-out leverage from something 
hanging off the port. It's just a little harder finding one that's 
male-female instead of male-male or female-female. But they exist and I 
think I have link for that arrangement on that page too in the initial 
description at the top.


As for the TPDD stuff, once I get the cables sorted out, I will work on 
bootstrapping and getting the client on the M100 and a server for my mac.


You'll use the same serial connection for anything/everything regardless 
of tpdd, so at least you know you're not wasting any time/effort.



--
bkw

Re: [M100] transferring files both directions

[Will Senn]

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the details, it'll take me a while to work through this, but it
sounds believable and achievable. I have purchased one of the ideal cables
you mention. If I understand correctly, the ideal cable should work fine
hooked up between my dell and the m100 because the dell has a db-9 serial
port. My mac on the other hand doesn't so I require a USB-Serial adapter to
make like the Mac has a DB-9 serial port? Then, I should be able to start
talking to the m100 via the ideal cable and USB-Serial connector plus any
gender changer needed between cable and USB-Serial adapter, right?

As for the TPDD stuff, once I get the cables sorted out, I will work on
bootstrapping and getting the client on the M100 and a server for my mac.

Thanks,

Will

On Tue, Sep 27, 2022 at 8:23 AM Brian White  wrote:

> I've documented some all-in-one correctly wired serial cables, and what
> makes them special, to go from a pc to a 100 here:
> http://tandy.wiki/Model_T_Serial_Cable
>
> And the most convenient way to move files is with a tpdd emulator, or at
> least a bootstrapper. It's not convenient that you have to install a tpdd
> client, but it addresses a couple major points:
>
> 1 There is no binary-safe way to transfer data in the stock rom except
> cassette tape. You need some other added software to do it. You could
> install an xmodem app but tpdd is more convenient and the smallest tpdd
> client is smaller.
>
> 2 Even for plain text data, nothing in the stock rom really does this in a
> way that cleanly begins and ends a file. You just manually start capturing
> in telcom or in basic, and then stop capturing, and it's up to you to
> ensure there is not a single byte of extra junk before or after the actual
> file contents.
>
> tpdd is a file transfer protocol and handles binary or text data equally,
> and the file is always a clean verbatim copy like you expect from any other
> file transfer method. It also checksums each 128-byte packet during the
> transfer which again a plain text telcom transfer does not do. (TPDD is a
> disk peripheral that connects by serial, which we now just emulate on the
> server side and use the existing disk operating software on the client side)
>
> So all in all, it's invaluable to install a tpdd client and run a tpdd
> server on your pc.
>
> There is another process for doing a one-time transfer which is usually
> used to bootstrap installing a tpdd client, since a tpdd client app is
> itself a binary program that needs to be transferred somehow, before you
> have it installed to do exactly that job...
>
> Bootstrapping just simplifies the serial port stuff as much as possible so
> there is less room for the user to get some detail wrong, and relies on the
> binary payload being packaged up into a loader, which is a BASIC program
> that contains a text encoded version of the binary as a big data payload
> and a small program that knows how to create the binary from the data.
>
> Bootstrapping is most commonly used to install a tpdd client but it's
> generically useful to transfer and run (or just transfer and save) any
> BASIC program, because the sending side is very simple and the receiving
> side doesn't require anything extra not part of the system rom on the 100.
> IE you can do it even right after a hard reset that wipes everything.
>
> And for ultimate quality of life, just get a REX#. It allows to have the
> best tpdd client in rom where it survives resets, does not consume precious
> ram, and doesn't even consume the single option rom slot, becuase REX# is
> an on-board option rom library not just one rom. So you can have all the
> option roms.
>
> Now to define all those terms...
>
> For tpdd servers, there are several, but the two you are interested in are
> LaddieAlpha and dlplus, as they are both current and usable on mac.
> http://tandy.wiki/TPDD_server
>
> 
> For tpdd clients, there are several, but the 2 most interesting are TS-DOS
> and TEENY. TS-DOS is most full featured and user friendly, but it also
> consumes a lot of ram if you need to use the ram version. TEENY is teeny,
> but also the very definition of the absolute minimum necessary
> functionality.
> http://tandy.wiki/TPDD_client 
>
> For bootstrapping from mac, dlplus includes a bootstrap function and also
> comes bundled with all the tpdd client loaders. There is also a bootstrap
> function in pdd.sh which is a tpdd client bash script, but on mac it needs
> a newer bash from macports or homebrew etc. Or, the function is simple so
> it could be extracted out to a simple standalone script and be compatible
> with the stock osx bash.
>
> Everything I said that works from mac also works from linux and even
> freebsd.
>
> Links to everything I mentioned are on those two pages above, and REX# is
> http://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=REXsharp
> --
> bkw
>
> On Mon, Sep 26, 2022 at 8:24 PM Will Senn  wrote:
>
>> So, I've read up and looked 

Re: [M100] transferring files both directions

[Brian White]

I've documented some all-in-one correctly wired serial cables, and what
makes them special, to go from a pc to a 100 here:
http://tandy.wiki/Model_T_Serial_Cable

And the most convenient way to move files is with a tpdd emulator, or at
least a bootstrapper. It's not convenient that you have to install a tpdd
client, but it addresses a couple major points:

1 There is no binary-safe way to transfer data in the stock rom except
cassette tape. You need some other added software to do it. You could
install an xmodem app but tpdd is more convenient and the smallest tpdd
client is smaller.

2 Even for plain text data, nothing in the stock rom really does this in a
way that cleanly begins and ends a file. You just manually start capturing
in telcom or in basic, and then stop capturing, and it's up to you to
ensure there is not a single byte of extra junk before or after the actual
file contents.

tpdd is a file transfer protocol and handles binary or text data equally,
and the file is always a clean verbatim copy like you expect from any other
file transfer method. It also checksums each 128-byte packet during the
transfer which again a plain text telcom transfer does not do. (TPDD is a
disk peripheral that connects by serial, which we now just emulate on the
server side and use the existing disk operating software on the client side)

So all in all, it's invaluable to install a tpdd client and run a tpdd
server on your pc.

There is another process for doing a one-time transfer which is usually
used to bootstrap installing a tpdd client, since a tpdd client app is
itself a binary program that needs to be transferred somehow, before you
have it installed to do exactly that job...

Bootstrapping just simplifies the serial port stuff as much as possible so
there is less room for the user to get some detail wrong, and relies on the
binary payload being packaged up into a loader, which is a BASIC program
that contains a text encoded version of the binary as a big data payload
and a small program that knows how to create the binary from the data.

Bootstrapping is most commonly used to install a tpdd client but it's
generically useful to transfer and run (or just transfer and save) any
BASIC program, because the sending side is very simple and the receiving
side doesn't require anything extra not part of the system rom on the 100.
IE you can do it even right after a hard reset that wipes everything.

And for ultimate quality of life, just get a REX#. It allows to have the
best tpdd client in rom where it survives resets, does not consume precious
ram, and doesn't even consume the single option rom slot, becuase REX# is
an on-board option rom library not just one rom. So you can have all the
option roms.

Now to define all those terms...

For tpdd servers, there are several, but the two you are interested in are
LaddieAlpha and dlplus, as they are both current and usable on mac.
http://tandy.wiki/TPDD_server


For tpdd clients, there are several, but the 2 most interesting are TS-DOS
and TEENY. TS-DOS is most full featured and user friendly, but it also
consumes a lot of ram if you need to use the ram version. TEENY is teeny,
but also the very definition of the absolute minimum necessary
functionality.
http://tandy.wiki/TPDD_client 

For bootstrapping from mac, dlplus includes a bootstrap function and also
comes bundled with all the tpdd client loaders. There is also a bootstrap
function in pdd.sh which is a tpdd client bash script, but on mac it needs
a newer bash from macports or homebrew etc. Or, the function is simple so
it could be extracted out to a simple standalone script and be compatible
with the stock osx bash.

Everything I said that works from mac also works from linux and even
freebsd.

Links to everything I mentioned are on those two pages above, and REX# is
http://bitchin100.com/wiki/index.php?title=REXsharp
-- 
bkw

On Mon, Sep 26, 2022 at 8:24 PM Will Senn  wrote:

> So, I've read up and looked around for this and haven't found quite the
> answer I was looking for, so I'm asking here (don't worry, I'm not gonna
> eternally spam y'all, but I've got these initial questions...).
>
> I've got a Mac Pro (big honking Mac machine from 2010 with 6, 3 ghz intel
> xeon processors, and a boatload of ram along with a 30 inch display)
> running Monterey (latest -1). I'm entirely comfortable with the Unix that
> lies underneath and have several FreeBSD and Linux boxes around the house.
>
> I'm using Minicom to talk with my PAL-1 (a KIM-1 clone), my Raspberry Pi,
> and my beaglebone black. So, I'm reasonable comfortable, but by no means
> expert, on talking to devices over serial.
>
> I believe that I ought to be able to hook up a Male DB-25 to the M100,
> connect that to a null modem cable  and that to a DB-9 to USB adapter that
> is attached to my Mac Pro's usb port and fire up Minicom to send and
> receive ascii files to and from the M100... but, hones

Re: [M100] assembly language first steps

[birt_j]

I can’t help with the Linux build but I did put a copy of the shareware build 
with my Sharp lh5801 extensions here: 
https://github.com/Jeff-Birt/TASM_vsCode_Extension/tree/main/Directory_Structure/TASM
 . The .exe is for Windows of course. When I last corresponded with the author 
a few years ago he was planning on making it open source eventually. I don’t 
know if he has done so yet. I paid him for a license and go the source which he 
has maintained for 30+ years so it seemed like a good deal, and I was able to 
build it with a modern version of Visual Studio.

 

If you would like his email, send me a message off list.

 

Jeff Birt

 

From: M100  On Behalf Of Alex ...
Sent: Monday, September 26, 2022 9:03 PM
To: m...@bitchin100.com
Cc: Model 100 Discussion 
Subject: Re: [M100] assembly language first steps

 

Where can you still get tasm? I didn't think the original website was around 
anymore and I'd like a copy of the Linux build.

 

On Mon, Sep 26, 2022, 21:44 Ken Pettit mailto:petti...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Hi Will,

I think most people on the list prefer tasm, though I use only the assembler in 
VirtualT personally.  Of course I wrote it and so therefore know how to use it 
and all of it's quirks.

Ken

On 9/26/22 5:13 PM, Will Senn wrote:

It will only be a matter of time before I want to program in assembly on my 
m100. I've read up and familiarized myself with the landscape on this and find 
it a bit confusing.

What is the preferred (or most common method) of getting an assembly/machine 
language program to run on the m100. I know that I can use basic to run machine 
code, but that's kludgy. I believe there is a basic assembler program in the 
wild and I've read about Custom Software's assembler, are either or both 
available online?

Thanks!

Will

 

[M100] Duplicate posts

[Scott McDonnell]

For those wondering what is causing the duplicate posts to the list, the reason 
I have found is using Reply All instead of just Reply when replying to messages 
in the group.