Re: [M100] TPDD Disk Imaging?

[Ben Strewens]

I went ahead and bought one :)

On 2020-07-15 6:15 p.m., Francois Gurin wrote:
... And thank you for it.  I bought one for the TPPD2 recently and can 
say the attention to detail is clear.  As a favor I would expect a 
generic floppy with a hand wriiten label.  The disk I got from 
arcadeshopper is on display on a shelf.


On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 10:32 PM Brian K. White > wrote:


On 7/14/20 8:36 PM, Ben Strewens wrote:
> I have one of these drives, but no disk for it. I was able to do
the PC
> hack to make it work, but I'd rather have the disk. Is there
anyone in
> Canada that could make one for me for a small fee?

I made up a bunch of TPDD1 and TPDD2 disks from NOS disks,
designed and
laserprinted nice labels on good glossy stock, and they are for
sale on
arcadeshopper.com 

(I don't run that shop, I just sent him the stuff to distribute
that way
so they are discoverable, and so that he can deal with 100 different
mailings and I only have to deal with one.)

I DID pay it forward several times over, the fact that someone
sent me a
disk for free, and made several copies for free for people for a
while
before making one big batch and dumping them on Greg to deal with via
his store. (and then a couple times saw that disk appear on ebay
immediately after spending time and one of my few nos 720K disks
sending
it to someone for free incuding mail...)

I do feel a little self-conscious or defensive saying something is
for
sale that should just be a favor, but it's only a favor a few times,
after that it's a time-consuming chore, and I don't want to have a
2nd
job as an ebay seller. So I just slogged through 20 of each in one
big
job, and sent them all to arcadeshopper in one shipment, charged him
enough to cover the disks, labels, bags, shipping, and now it's
someone
else's actual compensated job to deal with mailing the individual
ones
out any time someone needs one.

There is no way to hurry the process of making a disk with the
included
backup utility, especially if you test-boot each one, and it puts
wear
on the drive. Especially the TPDD1 disks are a pain because the TPDD1
bootstrap procedure is a pain.

The same goes for the DVI disks for 100, DVI disks for 200, the TPDD
cables, and the DVI cables.

Plus I thought, being a store, it would have a better chance of
turning
up in google searches when a new person got a TPDD on ebay or
smething,
and they go to search for info about it, they would have a better
chance
of finding out that the lost special disk or cable is available, vs a
post or two here where only a few people who happen to be on the
list at
that time ever see it. I don't know how true that's turning out to
be,
but it's got to be better than nothing.

-- 
bkw


> On 2020-07-14 7:32 p.m., Doug Jackson wrote:
>> Ohhh A,
>>
>> Stephen, are you hinting that with an actual drive I could
recreate my
>> own TPPD 1 disk?   That would be cool.  I am just about to do a
belt
>> replacement on one who's belt turned into black goo - When I
removed
>> the belt it literally went everywhere - and then the cleanup of
the
>> workshop bench was spectacular. Alcohol worked a treat :-)
>>
>> While there are beautiful solid state versions of the TPPD now,
but
>> the concept of a drive that clicks and whirs is very appealing to
>> me, Just like the 8" drives in my PDP11.
>>
>> Kindest regards,
>>
>> Doug Jackson
>>
>> em: d...@doughq.com 
>
>> ph: 0414 986878
>>
>> Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com

>> 
>> Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net
 
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Just like an old fashioned letter, this email and any files
>> transmitted with it should probably be treated as confidential and
>> intended solely for your own use.
>>
>> Please note that any interesting spelling is usually my own and
may
>> have been caused by fat thumbs on a tiny tiny keyboard.
>>
>> Should any part of this message prove to be useful in the event
of the
>> imminent Zombie Apocalypse then the sender bears no personal,
legal,
>> or moral responsibility for any outcome resulting from its usage
>> unless the result of said usage is the unlikely defeat of the
Zombie
>> Hordes in which case the sender takes full credit without any
>> theoretical or actual legal liability. :-)
>>
>> Be nice 

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk Imaging?

[Stephen Adolph]

Interesting!  So a standard drive can apparently read FM encoding.

On Thursday, July 16, 2020, Francois Gurin  wrote:

> Never tried this, but came across it recently
>
> http://cowlark.com/fluxengine/doc/disk-fb100.html
>
> Fluxengine seems to be an everymans xcopy/catweasel
>
> I know one person with a new todo on their list !
>
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 11:49 PM RETRO Innovations 
> wrote:
>
>> On 7/14/2020 9:27 PM, Kurt McCullum wrote:
>>
>> TPDDClient only works with a TPDD2
>>
>> Well, that's a bummer.  Any ideas on a suitable TPDD app?
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk Imaging?

[Francois Gurin]

Never tried this, but came across it recently

http://cowlark.com/fluxengine/doc/disk-fb100.html

Fluxengine seems to be an everymans xcopy/catweasel

I know one person with a new todo on their list !

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 11:49 PM RETRO Innovations 
wrote:

> On 7/14/2020 9:27 PM, Kurt McCullum wrote:
>
> TPDDClient only works with a TPDD2
>
> Well, that's a bummer.  Any ideas on a suitable TPDD app?
>
> Jim
>
>

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk Imaging?

[Francois Gurin]

... And thank you for it.  I bought one for the TPPD2 recently and can say
the attention to detail is clear.   As a favor I would expect a generic
floppy with a hand wriiten label.  The disk I got from arcadeshopper is on
display on a shelf.

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, 10:32 PM Brian K. White  wrote:

> On 7/14/20 8:36 PM, Ben Strewens wrote:
> > I have one of these drives, but no disk for it. I was able to do the PC
> > hack to make it work, but I'd rather have the disk. Is there anyone in
> > Canada that could make one for me for a small fee?
>
> I made up a bunch of TPDD1 and TPDD2 disks from NOS disks, designed and
> laserprinted nice labels on good glossy stock, and they are for sale on
> arcadeshopper.com
>
> (I don't run that shop, I just sent him the stuff to distribute that way
> so they are discoverable, and so that he can deal with 100 different
> mailings and I only have to deal with one.)
>
> I DID pay it forward several times over, the fact that someone sent me a
> disk for free, and made several copies for free for people for a while
> before making one big batch and dumping them on Greg to deal with via
> his store. (and then a couple times saw that disk appear on ebay
> immediately after spending time and one of my few nos 720K disks sending
> it to someone for free incuding mail...)
>
> I do feel a little self-conscious or defensive saying something is for
> sale that should just be a favor, but it's only a favor a few times,
> after that it's a time-consuming chore, and I don't want to have a 2nd
> job as an ebay seller. So I just slogged through 20 of each in one big
> job, and sent them all to arcadeshopper in one shipment, charged him
> enough to cover the disks, labels, bags, shipping, and now it's someone
> else's actual compensated job to deal with mailing the individual ones
> out any time someone needs one.
>
> There is no way to hurry the process of making a disk with the included
> backup utility, especially if you test-boot each one, and it puts wear
> on the drive. Especially the TPDD1 disks are a pain because the TPDD1
> bootstrap procedure is a pain.
>
> The same goes for the DVI disks for 100, DVI disks for 200, the TPDD
> cables, and the DVI cables.
>
> Plus I thought, being a store, it would have a better chance of turning
> up in google searches when a new person got a TPDD on ebay or smething,
> and they go to search for info about it, they would have a better chance
> of finding out that the lost special disk or cable is available, vs a
> post or two here where only a few people who happen to be on the list at
> that time ever see it. I don't know how true that's turning out to be,
> but it's got to be better than nothing.
>
> --
> bkw
>
> > On 2020-07-14 7:32 p.m., Doug Jackson wrote:
> >> Ohhh A,
> >>
> >> Stephen, are you hinting that with an actual drive I could recreate my
> >> own TPPD 1 disk?   That would be cool.  I am just about to do a belt
> >> replacement on one who's belt turned into black goo - When I removed
> >> the belt it literally went everywhere - and then the cleanup of the
> >> workshop bench was spectacular. Alcohol worked a treat :-)
> >>
> >> While there are beautiful solid state versions of the TPPD now, but
> >> the concept of a drive that clicks and whirs is very appealing to
> >> me, Just like the 8" drives in my PDP11.
> >>
> >> Kindest regards,
> >>
> >> Doug Jackson
> >>
> >> em: d...@doughq.com 
> >> ph: 0414 986878
> >>
> >> Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
> >> 
> >> Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net 
> >>
> >> ---
> >>
> >> Just like an old fashioned letter, this email and any files
> >> transmitted with it should probably be treated as confidential and
> >> intended solely for your own use.
> >>
> >> Please note that any interesting spelling is usually my own and may
> >> have been caused by fat thumbs on a tiny tiny keyboard.
> >>
> >> Should any part of this message prove to be useful in the event of the
> >> imminent Zombie Apocalypse then the sender bears no personal, legal,
> >> or moral responsibility for any outcome resulting from its usage
> >> unless the result of said usage is the unlikely defeat of the Zombie
> >> Hordes in which case the sender takes full credit without any
> >> theoretical or actual legal liability. :-)
> >>
> >> Be nice to your parents.
> >>
> >> Go outside and do something awesome - Draw, paint, walk, setup a
> >> radio station, go fishing or sailing - just do something that makes
> >> you happy.
> >>
> >> ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G- In more laid back days this line would
> >> literally sing ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 10:08 AM Stephen Adolph  >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> I believe that it is just not possible to use PC hardware ...
> >> drive, controller... 

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk Imaging?

[James Zeun]

Hey

I have a TPDD-II, I've never written a disk image before but I'd be  
happy to try. I do have a REX and a NADsbox, so I figure I must be in  
a good position to copy image to the SDcard and then write it to floppy.


I might need someone to point me to the file that needs writing etc,  
but yeah i'd be happy to help. I am based in England, but postage for  
a floppy disk surely wont be that much, it weighs nothing.


Cheers
James

On 15 Jul 2020, at 03:24, RETRO Innovations wrote:


On 7/14/2020 7:36 PM, Ben Strewens wrote:
I have one of these drives, but no disk for it. I was able to do  
the PC hack to make it work, but I'd rather have the disk. Is  
there anyone in Canada that could make one for me for a small fee?


If I could get mine to image a disk (and vice versa), I would send  
you one.


But, while I was able ot use TPDDClient to read files from the  
disk, the READ IMAGE and WRITE IMAGE functions in that application  
do not seem to work.


Anyone know of another Windows app (or, failing that, a Linux app)  
I can use?


Jim

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk Imaging?

[RETRO Innovations]

On 7/14/2020 9:27 PM, Kurt McCullum wrote:

TPDDClient only works with a TPDD2


Well, that's a bummer.  Any ideas on a suitable TPDD app?

Jim

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk Imaging?

[Gary Weber]

Seriously?  No need to feel that way at all.  Pretty cool thing you did
creating such professional looking disks for people and making them
available widely like that.  There's costs involved with all of that.  Most
importantly, they're actually out there and available on an easily found
store with a proven fulfillment process.


>   I do feel a little self-conscious or defensive saying something is for
> sale that should just be a favor, but it's only a favor a few times,
> after that it's a time-consuming chore, and I don't want to have a 2nd
> job as an ebay seller.

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk Imaging?

[Brian K. White]

On 7/14/20 8:36 PM, Ben Strewens wrote:
I have one of these drives, but no disk for it. I was able to do the PC 
hack to make it work, but I'd rather have the disk. Is there anyone in 
Canada that could make one for me for a small fee?


I made up a bunch of TPDD1 and TPDD2 disks from NOS disks, designed and 
laserprinted nice labels on good glossy stock, and they are for sale on 
arcadeshopper.com


(I don't run that shop, I just sent him the stuff to distribute that way 
so they are discoverable, and so that he can deal with 100 different 
mailings and I only have to deal with one.)


I DID pay it forward several times over, the fact that someone sent me a 
disk for free, and made several copies for free for people for a while 
before making one big batch and dumping them on Greg to deal with via 
his store. (and then a couple times saw that disk appear on ebay 
immediately after spending time and one of my few nos 720K disks sending 
it to someone for free incuding mail...)


I do feel a little self-conscious or defensive saying something is for 
sale that should just be a favor, but it's only a favor a few times, 
after that it's a time-consuming chore, and I don't want to have a 2nd 
job as an ebay seller. So I just slogged through 20 of each in one big 
job, and sent them all to arcadeshopper in one shipment, charged him 
enough to cover the disks, labels, bags, shipping, and now it's someone 
else's actual compensated job to deal with mailing the individual ones 
out any time someone needs one.


There is no way to hurry the process of making a disk with the included 
backup utility, especially if you test-boot each one, and it puts wear 
on the drive. Especially the TPDD1 disks are a pain because the TPDD1 
bootstrap procedure is a pain.


The same goes for the DVI disks for 100, DVI disks for 200, the TPDD 
cables, and the DVI cables.


Plus I thought, being a store, it would have a better chance of turning 
up in google searches when a new person got a TPDD on ebay or smething, 
and they go to search for info about it, they would have a better chance 
of finding out that the lost special disk or cable is available, vs a 
post or two here where only a few people who happen to be on the list at 
that time ever see it. I don't know how true that's turning out to be, 
but it's got to be better than nothing.


--
bkw


On 2020-07-14 7:32 p.m., Doug Jackson wrote:

Ohhh A,

Stephen, are you hinting that with an actual drive I could recreate my 
own TPPD 1 disk?   That would be cool.  I am just about to do a belt 
replacement on one who's belt turned into black goo - When I removed 
the belt it literally went everywhere - and then the cleanup of the 
workshop bench was spectacular. Alcohol worked a treat :-)


While there are beautiful solid state versions of the TPPD now, but 
the concept of a drive that clicks and whirs is very appealing to 
me, Just like the 8" drives in my PDP11.


Kindest regards,

Doug Jackson

em: d...@doughq.com 
ph: 0414 986878

Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com 


Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net 

---

Just like an old fashioned letter, this email and any files 
transmitted with it should probably be treated as confidential and 
intended solely for your own use.


Please note that any interesting spelling is usually my own and may 
have been caused by fat thumbs on a tiny tiny keyboard.


Should any part of this message prove to be useful in the event of the 
imminent Zombie Apocalypse then the sender bears no personal, legal, 
or moral responsibility for any outcome resulting from its usage 
unless the result of said usage is the unlikely defeat of the Zombie 
Hordes in which case the sender takes full credit without any 
theoretical or actual legal liability. :-)


Be nice to your parents.

Go outside and do something awesome - Draw, paint, walk, setup a 
radio station, go fishing or sailing - just do something that makes 
you happy.


^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G- In more laid back days this line would 
literally sing ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G






On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 10:08 AM Stephen Adolph > wrote:


I believe that it is just not possible to use PC hardware ...
drive, controller... to read a TPDD disk.

The disk is encoded with FM whereas a normal drive is MFM.  Or
maybe that is backwards.

Not sure but possibly a Catweasel drive can be used.  But that is
specialized.

Perhaps though a real TPDD drive connected to the pc is good
enough?  I think there is software for that .



On Tuesday, July 14, 2020, RETRO Innovations
mailto:go4re...@go4retro.com>> wrote:

Is there really no way to read the 3.5" disks in a PC (even an
older one, via DOS, with a discrete FDC IC)? I'd like to
backup my TPDD disks, but my M100 

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk Imaging?

[Kurt McCullum]

TPDDClient only works with a TPDD2

Kurt

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020, at 7:24 PM, RETRO Innovations wrote:
> On 7/14/2020 7:36 PM, Ben Strewens wrote:
> > I have one of these drives, but no disk for it. I was able to do the 
> > PC hack to make it work, but I'd rather have the disk. Is there anyone 
> > in Canada that could make one for me for a small fee?
> 
> If I could get mine to image a disk (and vice versa), I would send you one.
> 
> But, while I was able ot use TPDDClient to read files from the disk, the 
> READ IMAGE and WRITE IMAGE functions in that application do not seem to 
> work.
> 
> Anyone know of another Windows app (or, failing that, a Linux app) I can 
> use?
> 
> Jim
> 
> 

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk Imaging?

[RETRO Innovations]

On 7/14/2020 7:36 PM, Ben Strewens wrote:
I have one of these drives, but no disk for it. I was able to do the 
PC hack to make it work, but I'd rather have the disk. Is there anyone 
in Canada that could make one for me for a small fee?


If I could get mine to image a disk (and vice versa), I would send you one.

But, while I was able ot use TPDDClient to read files from the disk, the 
READ IMAGE and WRITE IMAGE functions in that application do not seem to 
work.


Anyone know of another Windows app (or, failing that, a Linux app) I can 
use?


Jim

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk Imaging?

[Ben Strewens]

I have one of these drives, but no disk for it. I was able to do the PC 
hack to make it work, but I'd rather have the disk. Is there anyone in 
Canada that could make one for me for a small fee?


On 2020-07-14 7:32 p.m., Doug Jackson wrote:

Ohhh A,

Stephen, are you hinting that with an actual drive I could recreate my 
own TPPD 1 disk?   That would be cool.  I am just about to do a belt 
replacement on one who's belt turned into black goo - When I removed 
the belt it literally went everywhere - and then the cleanup of the 
workshop bench was spectacular. Alcohol worked a treat :-)


While there are beautiful solid state versions of the TPPD now, but 
the concept of a drive that clicks and whirs is very appealing to 
me, Just like the 8" drives in my PDP11.


Kindest regards,

Doug Jackson

em: d...@doughq.com 
ph: 0414 986878

Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com 


Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net 

---

Just like an old fashioned letter, this email and any files 
transmitted with it should probably be treated as confidential and 
intended solely for your own use.


Please note that any interesting spelling is usually my own and may 
have been caused by fat thumbs on a tiny tiny keyboard.


Should any part of this message prove to be useful in the event of the 
imminent Zombie Apocalypse then the sender bears no personal, legal, 
or moral responsibility for any outcome resulting from its usage 
unless the result of said usage is the unlikely defeat of the Zombie 
Hordes in which case the sender takes full credit without any 
theoretical or actual legal liability. :-)


Be nice to your parents.

Go outside and do something awesome - Draw, paint, walk, setup a 
radio station, go fishing or sailing - just do something that makes 
you happy.


^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G- In more laid back days this line would 
literally sing ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G






On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 10:08 AM Stephen Adolph > wrote:


I believe that it is just not possible to use PC hardware ...
drive, controller... to read a TPDD disk.

The disk is encoded with FM whereas a normal drive is MFM.  Or
maybe that is backwards.

Not sure but possibly a Catweasel drive can be used.  But that is
specialized.

Perhaps though a real TPDD drive connected to the pc is good
enough?  I think there is software for that .



On Tuesday, July 14, 2020, RETRO Innovations
mailto:go4re...@go4retro.com>> wrote:

Is there really no way to read the 3.5" disks in a PC (even an
older one, via DOS, with a discrete FDC IC)? I'd like to
backup my TPDD disks, but my M100 is set up for the DVI right
now, and I'd prefer to not redo all of that.

Jim


-- 
RETRO Innovations, Contemporary Gear for Classic Systems

www.go4retro.com 
store.go4retro.com 

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk Imaging?

[Doug Jackson]

Ohhh A,

Stephen, are you hinting that with an actual drive I could recreate my own
TPPD 1 disk?   That would be cool.  I am just about to do a belt
replacement on one who's belt turned into black goo - When I removed the
belt it literally went everywhere - and then the cleanup of the workshop
bench was spectacular. Alcohol worked a treat :-)

While there are beautiful solid state versions of the TPPD now, but the
concept of a drive that clicks and whirs is very appealing to me, Just like
the 8" drives in my PDP11.

Kindest regards,

Doug Jackson

em: d...@doughq.com
ph: 0414 986878

Check out my awesome clocks at www.dougswordclocks.com
Follow my amateur radio adventures at vk1zdj.net

---

Just like an old fashioned letter, this email and any files transmitted
with it should probably be treated as confidential and intended solely for
your own use.

Please note that any interesting spelling is usually my own and may have
been caused by fat thumbs on a tiny tiny keyboard.

Should any part of this message prove to be useful in the event of the
imminent Zombie Apocalypse then the sender bears no personal, legal, or
moral responsibility for any outcome resulting from its usage unless the
result of said usage is the unlikely defeat of the Zombie Hordes in which
case the sender takes full credit without any theoretical or actual legal
liability. :-)

Be nice to your parents.

Go outside and do something awesome - Draw, paint, walk, setup a
radio station, go fishing or sailing - just do something that makes you
happy.

^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G- In more laid back days this line would literally
sing ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G ^G




On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 10:08 AM Stephen Adolph 
wrote:

> I believe that it is just not possible to use PC hardware ... drive,
> controller... to read a TPDD disk.
>
> The disk is encoded with FM whereas a normal drive is MFM.  Or maybe that
> is backwards.
>
> Not sure but possibly a Catweasel drive can be used.  But that is
> specialized.
>
> Perhaps though a real TPDD drive connected to the pc is good enough?  I
> think there is software for that .
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, July 14, 2020, RETRO Innovations 
> wrote:
>
>> Is there really no way to read the 3.5" disks in a PC (even an older one,
>> via DOS, with a discrete FDC IC)? I'd like to backup my TPDD disks, but my
>> M100 is set up for the DVI right now, and I'd prefer to not redo all of
>> that.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> --
>> RETRO Innovations, Contemporary Gear for Classic Systems
>> www.go4retro.com
>> store.go4retro.com
>>
>>

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk Imaging?

[Stephen Adolph]

I believe that it is just not possible to use PC hardware ... drive,
controller... to read a TPDD disk.

The disk is encoded with FM whereas a normal drive is MFM.  Or maybe that
is backwards.

Not sure but possibly a Catweasel drive can be used.  But that is
specialized.

Perhaps though a real TPDD drive connected to the pc is good enough?  I
think there is software for that .



On Tuesday, July 14, 2020, RETRO Innovations  wrote:

> Is there really no way to read the 3.5" disks in a PC (even an older one,
> via DOS, with a discrete FDC IC)? I'd like to backup my TPDD disks, but my
> M100 is set up for the DVI right now, and I'd prefer to not redo all of
> that.
>
> Jim
>
>
> --
> RETRO Innovations, Contemporary Gear for Classic Systems
> www.go4retro.com
> store.go4retro.com
>
>

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk?

[Charles Hudson]

Brian,

Thank you for your offer which I gladly accept; let me compensate you for
your expenses.  Please PM me at clh...@gmail.com with details.

Thanks again,

-CH-



Virus-free.
www.avg.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk?

[Brian White]

Ok I would definitely get new boards. That is from even before the "old but
still ok" version I thought you must have had.

I think that one is ok electrically but really that was just my first shot
at importing Steve's original Eagle files into KiCAD.

The problems with it are the silkscreen is obviously all messed up. There
is no good way to provide power to the board for flashing the cpld (I used
an actual socket, you will have jerry rig something with maybe rubber bands
holding wires on the pins 1 & 14 edge connectors). There is no good way to
hold port_en high to flash the cpld. (you have to clip a jumper to the vcc
pin on the jtag and hold the other end manually touching the side of a
resistor, and if you brush the wrong side of that same resistor, you poof
the 3.3v regulator, and operate a laptop while holding that jumper wire in
place...)

I do think it's electrically the same as Steve's original, just with messed
up silk screen. So, you *could* follow the old directions on the wiki to
see where to touch the jumper wire to hold port_en for programming. The
current directions include a link to the old directions. You'll have to
look at the pics to tell which jtag pins are which too I guess. The
arrangement hasn't changed, so an old picture that shows where tdi, tdo,
tck, etc are, it's the same position on yours.

I mean, I would even rather send you a few of my own left over boards than
see you use that board. They are left over. I don't sell REX's or anything
so once I was done testing the updated designs and done building the couple
I need, the rest of the boards are just left over after that, doing nothing.

And I didn't have any carrier at that time so I guess that means you didn't
get any version of a carrier. The original rex and this one was still just
using paperboard and ribbon glued to the bottom.

You could do that original spacer & ribbon, but I think you can actually
get that version into the current carrier which would be better (safer from
mangling your socket pins) than the spacer & ribbon.

The chips and other components are the same, so you could just order the
current boards for $6 and a carrier for another $6, and the rest of the
parts you already have, if you didn't want to take my free left over ones.
I don't know if I have leftovers of the very last version, but several
versions before that were basically the same and would be fine. I think you
would get mine faster too since it would just be the mail, no manufacturing.

-- 
bkw

On Sun, Jun 21, 2020, 8:29 AM Charles Hudson  wrote:

> Brian,
>
> Attached pic shows the REX board I obtained last year.
>
> -CH-
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free.
> www.avg.com
> 
> <#m_-5685505497623102292_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk?

[Brian White]

Did you get one of the versions old enough to have a hole in the corner?
And if so, did you get a carrier that fits it at the same time?

If you don't have a carrier to match your board, let me know, there's a few
different options to get you going.

-- 
bkw

On Fri, Jun 19, 2020, 2:56 PM Charles Hudson  wrote:

> Brian,
>
> Thank you for the clarification.  I obtained the MP3 of the DOS
> installation, as well as mComm.  I have it installed on a Windows 10
> machine (after the antivirus resolved its reservations) and have Linux and
> Android OSs to experiment with as well.
>
> I do have the cassette cable and also have USB-to-serial converters and
> null modem cables, although I'm not sure how well they conform to
> specification.
>
> I'm sure one way or another I'll get this going.  But I really ought to
> get busy building the REX; I bought the pieces last year but got busy with
> other projects thereafter.
>
> Thanks again for your contribution.
>
> -CH-
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> 
> <#m_1974637505811392643_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk?

[Brian K. White]

On 6/19/20 11:32 AM, Charles Hudson wrote:

Thank you to Steven, Brian, Kurt et al. for your suggestions.
This is the TPDD, catalog 26-3808.

I think the simplest option for me is to order one of the TPDD disks 
from Arcade Shopper, which I will do today.  The manual describes the 
boot process from the disk.


I do have a cassette drive, CCR-81, but I don't have REX implemented yet 
and would like to verify operation sooner rather than later.


Cassette cable, not cassette drive. If you have the cassette cable, you 
can play the mp3 to install TS-DOS right now, if you have anything with 
a headphone jack.


If you have the serial cable and usb adapter you can bootstrap from 
either mComm or dlpluss right now too.


The TPDD1 bootstrap procedure from the util disk is about the least 
convenient method of all, what with switching the dip switches and 
having to enter in that long S-Record correctly. TPDD2 is the slick one.


The mcomm/dlplus bootstrappers work the same way as the TPDD2. But you 
do still want the disk just to have it.


--
bkw

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk?

[Mugglepiece Theater]

Yeah, mine wasn’t working. I’m not at all tech savvy and I was able to
switch out the belt without too much trouble. Got it on eBay pretty cheap.
Worked right away.


On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 8:39 AM Ken Pettit  wrote:

> Hey Charles,
>
> Keep in mind that nearly every TPDD these days that has not had new rubber
> drive belts installed will likely need one.  After 35+ years, they have
> dry-rotted and the motor does not spin the disk.  These can also be
> purchased, but taking apart the TPDD and putting it back together is a bit
> of an effort.
>
>
> Ken
>
> On 6/19/20 8:32 AM, Charles Hudson wrote:
>
> Thank you to Steven, Brian, Kurt et al. for your suggestions.
> This is the TPDD, catalog 26-3808.
>
> I think the simplest option for me is to order one of the TPDD disks from
> Arcade Shopper, which I will do today.  The manual describes the boot
> process from the disk.
>
> I do have a cassette drive, CCR-81, but I don't have REX implemented yet
> and would like to verify operation sooner rather than later.
>
> I'll report back when operational.
>
> Thanks again for your responses.
>
> -CH-
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> 
>
>
>

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk?

[Ken Pettit]

Hey Charles,

Keep in mind that nearly every TPDD these days that has not had new 
rubber drive belts installed will likely need one.  After 35+ years, 
they have dry-rotted and the motor does not spin the disk.  These can 
also be purchased, but taking apart the TPDD and putting it back 
together is a bit of an effort.


Ken

On 6/19/20 8:32 AM, Charles Hudson wrote:

Thank you to Steven, Brian, Kurt et al. for your suggestions.
This is the TPDD, catalog 26-3808.

I think the simplest option for me is to order one of the TPDD disks 
from Arcade Shopper, which I will do today.  The manual describes the 
boot process from the disk.


I do have a cassette drive, CCR-81, but I don't have REX implemented 
yet and would like to verify operation sooner rather than later.


I'll report back when operational.

Thanks again for your responses.

-CH-

 
	Virus-free. www.avast.com 
 

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk?

[Brian White]

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020, 9:04 PM Kurt McCullum  wrote:

> I'll chime in on this one. Yes a stand alone Windows PC program exists and
> the TPDD2 Utility disk image exists. Links below.
>

This is great!

-- 
bkw

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk?

[John R. Hogerhuis]

Cool! I was thinking you had written but didn't want to create confusion by
guessing.

"The utility below only works with a TPDD2"

Hey that's funny because we pretty much only knew the TPDD sector access
protocol for the longest time.

-- John.

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk?

[Kurt McCullum]

I'll chime in on this one. Yes a stand alone Windows PC program exists and the 
TPDD2 Utility disk image exists. Links below. You have to have have the right 
cable setup to hook the drive directly to your PC. I put one together by hand 
when I was writing the program. But to be honest, it's a lot less work to have 
somebody make you a copy and mail a disk to you. The utility below only works 
with a TPDD2.

Kurt
TPDD Clinet Link - 
http://www.club100.org/memfiles/index.php?action=downloadfile=TPDDClient.exe=Kurt%20McCullum/TPDD%20Client;

TPDD2 Utility disk image - 
http://www.club100.org/memfiles/index.php?action=downloadfile=UtilityDisk.bin=Kurt%20McCullum/TPDD%20Client;

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020, at 1:55 PM, John R. Hogerhuis wrote:
> Theoretically a standalone PC program could write sector access commands 
> (either TPDD 1 or TPDD 2 style) and push the images straight to disk with no 
> intermediate step.
> 
> I have a vague recollection someone already coded that up?
> 
> -- John

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk?

[Brian K. White]

On 6/18/20 4:55 PM, John R. Hogerhuis wrote:
Theoretically a standalone PC program could write sector access commands 
(either TPDD 1 or TPDD 2 style) and push the images straight to disk 
with no intermediate step.


Yes but that email was already long enough without including every 
possible qualification ;)



I have a vague recollection someone already coded that up?


I think Gary started on it, did some serial capture while working on 
tpddtool.py, but never got it all worked out.


But yes since it's a manageable (not too crazy complex, and 
well-documented) protocol talking over standard rs232 hardware, there is 
no reason a small program couldn't squirt the same commands and data 
from a pc out the serial port to the drive.


TpddTool.py would probably be the starting point for that since it's a 
99%-baked tpdd client already done, runnable on any pc os or platform, 
written in nice scrutable hackable python.


--
bkw

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk?

[John R. Hogerhuis]

Theoretically a standalone PC program could write sector access commands
(either TPDD 1 or TPDD 2 style) and push the images straight to disk with
no intermediate step.

I have a vague recollection someone already coded that up?

-- John

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk?

[Brian K. White]

On 6/18/20 3:49 PM, Tom Wilson wrote:
On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 12:40 PM Brian K. White > wrote:


On 6/18/20 1:41 PM, Charles Hudson wrote:
 > I happened to find a TPDD complete with cable, manual, power
supply and
 > even a spare belt.  What was missing was the disk containing the
OS and
 > utilities.
 >
 > Does anyone happen to know where an image of this disk exists?

An image exists for tpdd or tpdd2 (I don't remember which one but I
think it was only one of the two), but it doesn't help you because
there
is no way to turn it into a disk.


... and if you have REX, you don't really need the utilities disk, 
because TS-DOS comes with REX.




That was already said in that same post, and is not 100% true, because 
there are things that require specifically the original FLOPPY or FLOPY2 
dos, not anything else like TS-DOS, which was also said in that post.


--
bkw

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk?

[Tom Wilson]

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 12:40 PM Brian K. White 
wrote:

> On 6/18/20 1:41 PM, Charles Hudson wrote:
> > I happened to find a TPDD complete with cable, manual, power supply and
> > even a spare belt.  What was missing was the disk containing the OS and
> > utilities.
> >
> > Does anyone happen to know where an image of this disk exists?
>
> An image exists for tpdd or tpdd2 (I don't remember which one but I
> think it was only one of the two), but it doesn't help you because there
> is no way to turn it into a disk.
>
>
... and if you have REX, you don't really need the utilities disk, because
TS-DOS comes with REX.

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk?

[Brian K. White]

On 6/18/20 1:41 PM, Charles Hudson wrote:
I happened to find a TPDD complete with cable, manual, power supply and 
even a spare belt.  What was missing was the disk containing the OS and 
utilities.


Does anyone happen to know where an image of this disk exists?


An image exists for tpdd or tpdd2 (I don't remember which one but I 
think it was only one of the two), but it doesn't help you because there 
is no way to turn it into a disk.


You need to get an actual disk, and then you can use it's backup util 
and the real drive to make copies of it.


I made up some nice copies with labels and bootstrap directions right on 
the labels for both tpdd and tpdd2, and you get get one from 
arcadeshopper.com


https://www.arcadeshopper.com/wp/?page_id=11#!/100-102-200/c/28313042/offset=0=nameAsc

TPDD and TPDD2 are different so you have to get the correct disk for the 
drive you have. (26-3808 vs 26-3814)


Until then, there are a few different ways to use the drive right now, 
starting from pure downloads and using a modern pc or android phone and 
a special serial cable.


What you need is a dos to run on the M100 and a way to bootstrap that 
dos onto the m100.


There are a few different dosses (TS-DOS, TEENY, DSKMGR, FLOPPY/FLOPY2) 
and a few different ways to bootstrap (rom, disk, serial, cassette).


There is no way to say what is the best or most convenient method, 
because none of them are fully convenient, they are all just different 
from each other, and one way will be more convenient than others for you 
based on what cables and devices you happen to have, and what kinds of 
procedures you happen to find simple or complicated.


Myself, I have both REX's and a Teeproms which are two different ways to 
have TS-DOS in rom, which is the best dos and the most convenient way to 
install & run it.

http://tandy.wiki/REX
http://tandy.wiki/Teeprom

If I am pretending I don't have a ROM version so I need to bootstrap, 
the next-most convenient for me is I use a modified version of dlplus 
where I added a bootstrapper function and included loader files for 
TEENY and DSKMGR. I use that to install TEENY onto the m100 very easily, 
then you can use teeny either with a real tpdd drive or with a tpdd 
server like dlplus itself.

https://github.com/bkw777/dlplus/

That is most convenient for me because I happen to have the right kind 
of serial cable and usb adapter,

http://tandy.wiki/Model_100_102_200_600_Serial_Cable

...and I run linux on my laptop, and the same program is both a 
bootstrapper and a tpdd server, meaning I'm really using it with my 
laptop not with a real tpdd drive most of the time. TEENY is a very 
bare-bones minimum required functionality dos that can't even list the 
disk contents, so it's really only good for using with a tpdd server 
where you can just see the files on the host and you don't need to be 
able to list them from the M100.



Another very convenient way IF you happen to have an Android phone or 
other android device, and a usb OTG cable, and the same usb and serial 
cables as above, is mComm. mComm is another tpdd server that also 
includes a bootstrapper, available in Windows and Android versions, and 
I think also includes an installer for TS-DOS as well as TEENY.



Another way that might be the most convenient if you didn't have the 
right serial and usb adapters, but did have the cassette cable,

is there is also an MP3 file of the cassette version of TS-DOS.

mComm for Windows and Android, and also a new python version of mCom (I 
don't know if the pythn version has the bootstrapper yet, I haven't used 
it yet), and the MP3 file are here:

http://www.club100.org/memfiles/index.php?=0==Kurt%20McCullum


The difficulty for the mp3/cassette method is you need the cassette 
cable, and you need a device which can play mp3s which not only still 
has a headphone jack, but the output from that jack has to go loud 
enough. My Note4 phone works on max volume. One step down and it no 
longer works. Some devices just don't work no matter what. But if you 
have all that, then it's super convenient.



If you don't have the cassette cable, there are usually some on ebay.
Sometimes old original ones, sometimes ones made new. You can search for 
cassette cable for trs-80 Model 1, Model III, coco, IBM 5150, Amstrad 
6128, Dragon 32/64, besides Model 100.
This guy makes them new (I have exactly this cable and confirm it is 
proper for M100 even though he doesn't list any trs-80 models for this 
cable):

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Amstrad-CPC-6128-Dragon-32-64-IBM-5150-High-Quality-Cassette-Tape-Leads/264124762008

But for example these all are correct too:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cassette-Interface-Cable-TRS80-CoCo-Mod-I-Mod-III-Mod-4-Mod-100/333592729047?hash=item4dabad15d7:g:X4wAAOSwLcZeucp-:sc:USPSFirstClass!08902!US!-1

https://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-Tandy-TRS-80-Cassette-Interface-Cable-Model-1-III-IV-4P-INTERNATIONAL/203004131571?hash=item2f43fd38f3:g:Bn0AAOSw1LJevr8k

Oh, looks 

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk?

[Kurt McCullum]

TPDD to TPDD2?

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020, at 10:41 AM, Charles Hudson wrote:
> I happened to find a TPDD complete with cable, manual, power supply and even 
> a spare belt. What was missing was the disk containing the OS and utilities.
> 
> Does anyone happen to know where an image of this disk exists?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -CH-
> 
 

> Virus-free. www.avg.com 
> 
 

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk?

[Stephen Adolph]

whoops scratch that.  no teledisk images...  can't do that trick wth TPDD.

On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 1:47 PM Stephen Adolph  wrote:

> teledisk images are at club100 in my personal directory.
> You can get the disk from arcadeshopper though I think , and Brian also
> can make them I think?
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 1:42 PM Charles Hudson  wrote:
>
>> I happened to find a TPDD complete with cable, manual, power supply and
>> even a spare belt.  What was missing was the disk containing the OS and
>> utilities.
>>
>> Does anyone happen to know where an image of this disk exists?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> -CH-
>>
>>
>> 
>>  Virus-free.
>> www.avg.com
>> 
>> <#m_5081719643622502956_m_7989512984243812229_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>
>

Re: [M100] TPDD Disk?

[Stephen Adolph]

teledisk images are at club100 in my personal directory.
You can get the disk from arcadeshopper though I think , and Brian also can
make them I think?


On Thu, Jun 18, 2020 at 1:42 PM Charles Hudson  wrote:

> I happened to find a TPDD complete with cable, manual, power supply and
> even a spare belt.  What was missing was the disk containing the OS and
> utilities.
>
> Does anyone happen to know where an image of this disk exists?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -CH-
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free.
> www.avg.com
> 
> <#m_7989512984243812229_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>