RE: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

2014-09-28 Thread Laurie Mehta 


On Sat, 9/27/14, Shaun Oliver  wrote, in part:

"I'd sign up to be a beta tester, but, I don't want to spend my days
compiling bug reports, so I wait for the final release."

An observation: 
Blind beta testers help all concerned by filing bug reports.
If you don't particularly want to spend your days, as you say, compiling bug 
reports, can you understand why someone else would not want to spend their days 
with help desk folk working out the consequences of bugs in a new release? 
(smile)

Good discussion!
- LM
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RE: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

2014-09-27 Thread Shaun Oliver 
Problem with that is exactly that. Anyone can sign up to be a beta tester.
They want the latest and greatest toys and don't want to report the bugs so
we can have a smooth transition.

I'd sign up to be a beta tester, but, I don't want to spend my days
compiling bug reports, so I wait for the final release.


-Original Message-
From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net
[mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of Glenn
Sent: Sunday, 28 September 2014 10:15
To: OS X & iOS Accessibility
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

It's not like anyone is not going to upgrade.
Pretty much everyone will in time.
Historically, there are bugs in software, and if less people were to upgrade
right away, the software people would spend more time making sure that there
are no bugs.
We do not need to be unwilling beta testers.
That is why there are beta testers, to make sure that the bugs are all
worked out.
Anyone can sign up to be a tester, and if you want the bleeding edge, go
right ahead.
Glenn
- Original Message -
From: "Shaun Oliver" 
To: "'OS X & iOS Accessibility'" 
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 7:07 PM
Subject: RE: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?


I'm not suggesting for a minute you go in guns blazing.

Read the documentation, read the various bug reports and anything else you
can lay your hands on, but, don't dismiss upgrading out of hand, just
because.



-Original Message-
From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net
[mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of Diane Bomar
Sent: Sunday, 28 September 2014 09:07
To: OS X & iOS Accessibility
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

You make a good poing. Misery loves company, and maybe if enough people call
the accessibility line, when VO stops talking, Apple will fix the bugs that
cause those problems. But, one should make an informed choice by knowing the
risks.
Diane

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 27, 2014, at 7:48 AM, "Graham Smith"  wrote:

I could not agree more.  People that just sit back are not helping us at
all.  Perhaps if we all updated and showed our interest in getting things
fixed it would all happen a lot quicker and the likes of Appple may
concentrate a little more on the voice over side of some great software.
Everyone to their own I guess.



-Original Message- From: Shaun Oliver
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 6:06
To: 'OS X & iOS Accessibility'
Subject: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

I may be seen as confrontational with this response, but, I'mnot concerned
with that.

What concerns me, however, is the arrogants displayed by people who believe
they know better than they who've coded the operating system we're
discussing.

Regardless of accessibility bugs, which aren't insurmountable, I might add,
Each new IOS update includes security fixes to plug holes that were found in
the last revision and were picked up too late to be included in the cycle.
Irrespective of these bugs, a good number of which, have been addressed, to
a certain extent, to suggest that people not upgrade so as to maintain
useability, in my opinion is arrogant and gauche and utter folly. To suggest
you have no issues with security in a previous revision of IOS is again
folly.

It only takes one misplaced tap to introduce malware to the system or open
up a back door to be exploited by someone with little else to do than annoy
the rest of us.

If you want total security, you won't buy a smart phone. If you want
moderate security, you won't connect it to the internet. If you want
relative security, you'll stay on top of updates.



<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to
mac-access@mac-access.net

You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at
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<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
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As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure that
the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and
worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security
strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something
unpredictable happen.

Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by
visiting the list website at:
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Subscribe to the

Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

2014-09-27 Thread Glenn 
It's not like anyone is not going to upgrade.
Pretty much everyone will in time.
Historically, there are bugs in software, and if less people were to upgrade 
right away, the software people would spend more time making sure that there 
are no bugs.
We do not need to be unwilling beta testers.
That is why there are beta testers, to make sure that the bugs are all 
worked out.
Anyone can sign up to be a tester, and if you want the bleeding edge, go 
right ahead.
Glenn
- Original Message - 
From: "Shaun Oliver" 
To: "'OS X & iOS Accessibility'" 
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 7:07 PM
Subject: RE: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?


I'm not suggesting for a minute you go in guns blazing.

Read the documentation, read the various bug reports and anything else you
can lay your hands on, but, don't dismiss upgrading out of hand, just
because.



-Original Message-
From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net
[mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of Diane Bomar
Sent: Sunday, 28 September 2014 09:07
To: OS X & iOS Accessibility
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

You make a good poing. Misery loves company, and maybe if enough people call
the accessibility line, when VO stops talking, Apple will fix the bugs that
cause those problems. But, one should make an informed choice by knowing the
risks.
Diane

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 27, 2014, at 7:48 AM, "Graham Smith"  wrote:

I could not agree more.  People that just sit back are not helping us at
all.  Perhaps if we all updated and showed our interest in getting things
fixed it would all happen a lot quicker and the likes of Appple may
concentrate a little more on the voice over side of some great software.
Everyone to their own I guess.



-Original Message- From: Shaun Oliver
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 6:06
To: 'OS X & iOS Accessibility'
Subject: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

I may be seen as confrontational with this response, but, I'mnot concerned
with that.

What concerns me, however, is the arrogants displayed by people who believe
they know better than they who've coded the operating system we're
discussing.

Regardless of accessibility bugs, which aren't insurmountable, I might add,
Each new IOS update includes security fixes to plug holes that were found in
the last revision and were picked up too late to be included in the cycle.
Irrespective of these bugs, a good number of which, have been addressed, to
a certain extent, to suggest that people not upgrade so as to maintain
useability, in my opinion is arrogant and gauche and utter folly. To suggest
you have no issues with security in a previous revision of IOS is again
folly.

It only takes one misplaced tap to introduce malware to the system or open
up a back door to be exploited by someone with little else to do than annoy
the rest of us.

If you want total security, you won't buy a smart phone. If you want
moderate security, you won't connect it to the internet. If you want
relative security, you'll stay on top of updates.



<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to
mac-access@mac-access.net

You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at
the list's public Mail Archive:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml>

As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure that
the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and
worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security
strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something
unpredictable happen.

Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by
visiting the list website at:
<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/>

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to 
mac-access@mac-access.net

You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
the list's public Mail Archive:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml>

As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure that 
the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and 
worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security 
strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something 
unpredictable happen.

Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by 
visiting the list website at:
<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access

RE: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

2014-09-27 Thread Shaun Oliver 
I'll conseed the point that IOS8 was released a little too early, as was, in my 
opinion IOS7. It too had a good number of bugs when it first came out if I 
remember correctly.

Say what you like about the late steve jobs, but, he made sure that each 
release of IOS had as few debilitating bugs as possible before it was released. 
Perhaps we need the innovativeness of tim cook and his team with the 
perfectionism of steve jobs. I think we've gone from one extreme to another and 
there needs to be a happy medium where all sides can be happy, and thus the 
end-user can be even happier knowing their devices won't break at the first 
upgrade.


-Original Message-
From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net 
[mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of Mark
Sent: Sunday, 28 September 2014 09:27
To: OS X & iOS Accessibility
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

I don't want to spend too much time going tit for tat on this subject.
Many blind people I know in fact embrace change.
The assumption that the problem is not embracing change is perhaps misguided. 
My experience, has been from people I know, and customers of the blind agency 
where I work, that have been extremely frustrated as they have lost the ability 
to utilize a tool they have become very familiar and reliance upon.
So the frustration, is waiting for the bugs to be fixed so that people can 
perform the normal functions they are used to.
I think Apple released this upgrade to soon, to match the release of their eye 
six.
It's  just my thoughts.


Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 27, 2014, at 4:07 PM, Shaun Oliver  wrote:

I'm unsure where you get the impression that IOS8 is unuseable.

It's perfectly useable and relyable. I know blind people are afraid of change, 
but doggedly hanging onto software just because of the fear of your device 
being rendered useless, based upon the say so of a minority, is the folly. Yes, 
I've found and reported some bugs. Yes, There's some annoyances, and yes, there 
might be one or two things that don't work. But, please, don't become like the 
masses out there. The masses that seem to be a generation of users whereby we 
have smart phones and dumb operators. You do yourself and us, a great 
disservice.



-Original Message-
From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net 
[mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of Mark
Sent: Sunday, 28 September 2014 04:46
To: OS X & iOS Accessibility
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

I am not going to upgrade to I OS 8 until there is some reliance upon 
usability. I don't believe there's any folly, in wanting to actually use the 
iPhone you have become reliant upon.
The folly, is that somehow upgrading to an in adequate upgrade, is better so 
all others will be better off because Apple customer service will hear from 
more people about what doesn't work.
For those that are brave enough, to express to Apple what doesn't work on their 
phones anymore….Go for it. Much thanks.


Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 27, 2014, at 10:49 AM, Eleanor Martha Burke 
 wrote:

Well my niece who is sighted said the upgrade really messed up her iPad.
- Original Message - From: "Glenn" 
To: "OS X & iOS Accessibility" 
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?


> Speaking of security, I seem to recall, in IOS 7, in the major release 
> from 6x to 7, that there was a security breakage.
> Here is an example where it is more secure to stay with the older version.
> These developers are in too much of a rush to upgrade their OS.
> I think Apple wanted to get this out along side their new phone and 
> rushed things too much.
> Plus, when things go bad, it is harder on those of use using the 
> adaptive software we need to even use the device.
> Glenn
> - Original Message ----- From: "Graham Smith" 
> 
> To: "OS X & iOS Accessibility" 
> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 8:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?
> 
> 
> I could not agree more.  People that just sit back are not helping us 
> at all.  Perhaps if we all updated and showed our interest in getting 
> things fixed it would all happen a lot quicker and the likes of Appple 
> may concentrate a little more on the voice over side of some great software.
> Everyone to their own I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message- From: Shaun Oliver
> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 6:06
> To: 'OS X & iOS Accessibility'
> Subject: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?
> 
> I may be seen as confrontational with this response, but, I'mnot 
> concerned with that.
> 
> What concerns me, however, is the arrogants displayed by people who 
> believe they know bette

RE: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

2014-09-27 Thread Shaun Oliver 
I'm not suggesting for a minute you go in guns blazing.

Read the documentation, read the various bug reports and anything else you
can lay your hands on, but, don't dismiss upgrading out of hand, just
because.



-Original Message-
From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net
[mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of Diane Bomar
Sent: Sunday, 28 September 2014 09:07
To: OS X & iOS Accessibility
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

You make a good poing. Misery loves company, and maybe if enough people call
the accessibility line, when VO stops talking, Apple will fix the bugs that
cause those problems. But, one should make an informed choice by knowing the
risks. 
Diane

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 27, 2014, at 7:48 AM, "Graham Smith"  wrote:

I could not agree more.  People that just sit back are not helping us at
all.  Perhaps if we all updated and showed our interest in getting things
fixed it would all happen a lot quicker and the likes of Appple may
concentrate a little more on the voice over side of some great software.
Everyone to their own I guess.



-Original Message- From: Shaun Oliver
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 6:06
To: 'OS X & iOS Accessibility'
Subject: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

I may be seen as confrontational with this response, but, I'mnot concerned
with that.

What concerns me, however, is the arrogants displayed by people who believe
they know better than they who've coded the operating system we're
discussing.

Regardless of accessibility bugs, which aren't insurmountable, I might add,
Each new IOS update includes security fixes to plug holes that were found in
the last revision and were picked up too late to be included in the cycle.
Irrespective of these bugs, a good number of which, have been addressed, to
a certain extent, to suggest that people not upgrade so as to maintain
useability, in my opinion is arrogant and gauche and utter folly. To suggest
you have no issues with security in a previous revision of IOS is again
folly.

It only takes one misplaced tap to introduce malware to the system or open
up a back door to be exploited by someone with little else to do than annoy
the rest of us.

If you want total security, you won't buy a smart phone. If you want
moderate security, you won't connect it to the internet. If you want
relative security, you'll stay on top of updates.



<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to
mac-access@mac-access.net

You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at
the list's public Mail Archive:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml>

As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure that
the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and
worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security
strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should something
unpredictable happen.

Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by
visiting the list website at:
<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/>

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net

You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
the list's public Mail Archive:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/>.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:
<http://www.mail-archive.com/mac-access@mac-access.net/maillist.xml>

As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure that the 
Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free.  
However, this should in no way replace your own security strategy.  We assume 
neither liability nor responsibility should something unpredictable happen.

Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by visiting 
the list website at:
<http://mail.tft-bbs.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/mac-access/options/>

Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

2014-09-27 Thread Mark 
I don't want to spend too much time going tit for tat on this subject.
Many blind people I know in fact embrace change.
The assumption that the problem is not embracing change is perhaps misguided. 
My experience, has been from people I know, and customers of the blind agency 
where I work, that have been extremely frustrated as they have lost the ability 
to utilize a tool they have become very familiar and reliance upon.
So the frustration, is waiting for the bugs to be fixed so that people can 
perform the normal functions they are used to.
I think Apple released this upgrade to soon, to match the release of their eye 
six.
It's  just my thoughts.


Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 27, 2014, at 4:07 PM, Shaun Oliver  wrote:

I'm unsure where you get the impression that IOS8 is unuseable.

It's perfectly useable and relyable. I know blind people are afraid of change, 
but doggedly hanging onto software just because of the fear of your device 
being rendered useless, based upon the say so of a minority, is the folly. Yes, 
I've found and reported some bugs. Yes, There's some annoyances, and yes, there 
might be one or two things that don't work. But, please, don't become like the 
masses out there. The masses that seem to be a generation of users whereby we 
have smart phones and dumb operators. You do yourself and us, a great 
disservice.



-Original Message-
From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net 
[mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of Mark
Sent: Sunday, 28 September 2014 04:46
To: OS X & iOS Accessibility
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

I am not going to upgrade to I OS 8 until there is some reliance upon 
usability. I don't believe there's any folly, in wanting to actually use the 
iPhone you have become reliant upon.
The folly, is that somehow upgrading to an in adequate upgrade, is better so 
all others will be better off because Apple customer service will hear from 
more people about what doesn't work.
For those that are brave enough, to express to Apple what doesn't work on their 
phones anymore….Go for it. Much thanks.


Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 27, 2014, at 10:49 AM, Eleanor Martha Burke 
 wrote:

Well my niece who is sighted said the upgrade really messed up her iPad.
- Original Message - From: "Glenn" 
To: "OS X & iOS Accessibility" 
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?


> Speaking of security, I seem to recall, in IOS 7, in the major release 
> from 6x to 7, that there was a security breakage.
> Here is an example where it is more secure to stay with the older version.
> These developers are in too much of a rush to upgrade their OS.
> I think Apple wanted to get this out along side their new phone and 
> rushed things too much.
> Plus, when things go bad, it is harder on those of use using the 
> adaptive software we need to even use the device.
> Glenn
> - Original Message ----- From: "Graham Smith" 
> 
> To: "OS X & iOS Accessibility" 
> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 8:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?
> 
> 
> I could not agree more.  People that just sit back are not helping us 
> at all.  Perhaps if we all updated and showed our interest in getting 
> things fixed it would all happen a lot quicker and the likes of Appple 
> may concentrate a little more on the voice over side of some great software.
> Everyone to their own I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message- From: Shaun Oliver
> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 6:06
> To: 'OS X & iOS Accessibility'
> Subject: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?
> 
> I may be seen as confrontational with this response, but, I'mnot 
> concerned with that.
> 
> What concerns me, however, is the arrogants displayed by people who 
> believe they know better than they who've coded the operating system 
> we're discussing.
> 
> Regardless of accessibility bugs, which aren't insurmountable, I might 
> add, Each new IOS update includes security fixes to plug holes that 
> were found in the last revision and were picked up too late to be included in 
> the cycle.
> Irrespective of these bugs, a good number of which, have been 
> addressed, to a certain extent, to suggest that people not upgrade so 
> as to maintain useability, in my opinion is arrogant and gauche and 
> utter folly. To suggest you have no issues with security in a previous 
> revision of IOS is again folly.
> 
> It only takes one misplaced tap to introduce malware to the system or 
> open up a back door to be exploited by someone with little else to do 
> than annoy the rest of us.
> 
> If you want total security, you won't

Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

2014-09-27 Thread Diane Bomar 
You make a good poing. Misery loves company, and maybe if enough people call 
the accessibility line, when VO stops talking, Apple will fix the bugs that 
cause those problems. But, one should make an informed choice by knowing the 
risks. 
Diane

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 27, 2014, at 7:48 AM, "Graham Smith"  wrote:

I could not agree more.  People that just sit back are not helping us at all.  
Perhaps if we all updated and showed our interest in getting things fixed it 
would all happen a lot quicker and the likes of Appple may concentrate a little 
more on the voice over side of some great software. Everyone to their own I 
guess.



-Original Message- From: Shaun Oliver
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 6:06
To: 'OS X & iOS Accessibility'
Subject: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

I may be seen as confrontational with this response, but, I'mnot concerned
with that.

What concerns me, however, is the arrogants displayed by people who believe
they know better than they who've coded the operating system we're
discussing.

Regardless of accessibility bugs, which aren't insurmountable, I might add,
Each new IOS update includes security fixes to plug holes that were found in
the last revision and were picked up too late to be included in the cycle.
Irrespective of these bugs, a good number of which, have been addressed, to
a certain extent, to suggest that people not upgrade so as to maintain
useability, in my opinion is arrogant and gauche and utter folly. To suggest
you have no issues with security in a previous revision of IOS is again
folly.

It only takes one misplaced tap to introduce malware to the system or open
up a back door to be exploited by someone with little else to do than annoy
the rest of us.

If you want total security, you won't buy a smart phone. If you want
moderate security, you won't connect it to the internet. If you want
relative security, you'll stay on top of updates.



<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to mac-access@mac-access.net

You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access forum at 
the list's public Mail Archive:
.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:


As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure that the 
Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and worm-free.  
However, this should in no way replace your own security strategy.  We assume 
neither liability nor responsibility should something unpredictable happen.

Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically by visiting 
the list website at:

RE: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

2014-09-27 Thread Shaun Oliver 
I'm unsure where you get the impression that IOS8 is unuseable.

It's perfectly useable and relyable. I know blind people are afraid of change, 
but doggedly hanging onto software just because of the fear of your device 
being rendered useless, based upon the say so of a minority, is the folly. Yes, 
I've found and reported some bugs. Yes, There's some annoyances, and yes, there 
might be one or two things that don't work. But, please, don't become like the 
masses out there. The masses that seem to be a generation of users whereby we 
have smart phones and dumb operators. You do yourself and us, a great 
disservice.



-Original Message-
From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net 
[mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of Mark
Sent: Sunday, 28 September 2014 04:46
To: OS X & iOS Accessibility
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

I am not going to upgrade to I OS 8 until there is some reliance upon 
usability. I don't believe there's any folly, in wanting to actually use the 
iPhone you have become reliant upon.
The folly, is that somehow upgrading to an in adequate upgrade, is better so 
all others will be better off because Apple customer service will hear from 
more people about what doesn't work.
For those that are brave enough, to express to Apple what doesn't work on their 
phones anymore….Go for it. Much thanks.


Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 27, 2014, at 10:49 AM, Eleanor Martha Burke 
 wrote:

Well my niece who is sighted said the upgrade really messed up her iPad.
- Original Message - From: "Glenn" 
To: "OS X & iOS Accessibility" 
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?


> Speaking of security, I seem to recall, in IOS 7, in the major release 
> from 6x to 7, that there was a security breakage.
> Here is an example where it is more secure to stay with the older version.
> These developers are in too much of a rush to upgrade their OS.
> I think Apple wanted to get this out along side their new phone and 
> rushed things too much.
> Plus, when things go bad, it is harder on those of use using the 
> adaptive software we need to even use the device.
> Glenn
> - Original Message - From: "Graham Smith" 
> 
> To: "OS X & iOS Accessibility" 
> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 8:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?
> 
> 
> I could not agree more.  People that just sit back are not helping us 
> at all.  Perhaps if we all updated and showed our interest in getting 
> things fixed it would all happen a lot quicker and the likes of Appple 
> may concentrate a little more on the voice over side of some great software.
> Everyone to their own I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message- From: Shaun Oliver
> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 6:06
> To: 'OS X & iOS Accessibility'
> Subject: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?
> 
> I may be seen as confrontational with this response, but, I'mnot 
> concerned with that.
> 
> What concerns me, however, is the arrogants displayed by people who 
> believe they know better than they who've coded the operating system 
> we're discussing.
> 
> Regardless of accessibility bugs, which aren't insurmountable, I might 
> add, Each new IOS update includes security fixes to plug holes that 
> were found in the last revision and were picked up too late to be included in 
> the cycle.
> Irrespective of these bugs, a good number of which, have been 
> addressed, to a certain extent, to suggest that people not upgrade so 
> as to maintain useability, in my opinion is arrogant and gauche and 
> utter folly. To suggest you have no issues with security in a previous 
> revision of IOS is again folly.
> 
> It only takes one misplaced tap to introduce malware to the system or 
> open up a back door to be exploited by someone with little else to do 
> than annoy the rest of us.
> 
> If you want total security, you won't buy a smart phone. If you want 
> moderate security, you won't connect it to the internet. If you want 
> relative security, you'll stay on top of updates.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net 
> [mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of Timothy J. 
> Meloy
> Sent: Saturday, 27 September 2014 16:16
> To: OS X & iOS Accessibility
> Subject: Re: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?
> 
> I have not experienced some of the voice over bugs that have been 
> widely talked about. The pros outweigh the cons for upgrading.
> TJ
> 
> 
>> On Sep 27, 2014, at 1:30 AM, Diane Bomar  wrote:
>> 
>> Unless the

RE: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

2014-09-27 Thread Shaun Oliver 
Well, if the iDevice you're updating goes west, or developes a few quriks,
reset it and reflash it.
And if worst comes to worst, wack it in DFU mode and restore it. It'll force
a redownload of the operating system and firmware.



-Original Message-
From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net
[mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of Eleanor Martha Burke
Sent: Sunday, 28 September 2014 03:20
To: OS X & iOS Accessibility
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

Well my niece who is sighted said the upgrade really messed up her iPad.
- Original Message - 
From: "Glenn" 
To: "OS X & iOS Accessibility" 
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?


> Speaking of security, I seem to recall, in IOS 7, in the major release 
> from
> 6x to 7, that there was a security breakage.
> Here is an example where it is more secure to stay with the older version.
> These developers are in too much of a rush to upgrade their OS.
> I think Apple wanted to get this out along side their new phone and rushed
> things too much.
> Plus, when things go bad, it is harder on those of use using the adaptive
> software we need to even use the device.
> Glenn
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Graham Smith" 
> To: "OS X & iOS Accessibility" 
> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 8:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?
>
>
> I could not agree more.  People that just sit back are not helping us at
> all.  Perhaps if we all updated and showed our interest in getting things
> fixed it would all happen a lot quicker and the likes of Appple may
> concentrate a little more on the voice over side of some great software.
> Everyone to their own I guess.
>
>
>
> -Original Message- 
> From: Shaun Oliver
> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 6:06
> To: 'OS X & iOS Accessibility'
> Subject: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?
>
> I may be seen as confrontational with this response, but, I'mnot concerned
> with that.
>
> What concerns me, however, is the arrogants displayed by people who 
> believe
> they know better than they who've coded the operating system we're
> discussing.
>
> Regardless of accessibility bugs, which aren't insurmountable, I might 
> add,
> Each new IOS update includes security fixes to plug holes that were found 
> in
> the last revision and were picked up too late to be included in the cycle.
> Irrespective of these bugs, a good number of which, have been addressed, 
> to
> a certain extent, to suggest that people not upgrade so as to maintain
> useability, in my opinion is arrogant and gauche and utter folly. To 
> suggest
> you have no issues with security in a previous revision of IOS is again
> folly.
>
> It only takes one misplaced tap to introduce malware to the system or open
> up a back door to be exploited by someone with little else to do than 
> annoy
> the rest of us.
>
> If you want total security, you won't buy a smart phone. If you want
> moderate security, you won't connect it to the internet. If you want
> relative security, you'll stay on top of updates.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net
> [mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of Timothy J. Meloy
> Sent: Saturday, 27 September 2014 16:16
> To: OS X & iOS Accessibility
> Subject: Re: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?
>
> I have not experienced some of the voice over bugs that have been widely
> talked about. The pros outweigh the cons for upgrading.
> TJ
>
>
>> On Sep 27, 2014, at 1:30 AM, Diane Bomar  wrote:
>>
>> Unless there is something in IOS 8, that you absolutely must have, I 
>> would
> encourage you to wait. After using IOS 8 for a week, on my new iPhone, I
> definitely will not be updating this iPad mini, till some bugs are fixed.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Sep 26, 2014, at 11:07 PM, Glenn  wrote:
>>
>> I don't think we need to worry about security in version 7.
>> Glenn
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Shaun Oliver" 
>> To: "'OS X & iOS Accessibility'" 
>> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 11:57 PM
>> Subject: RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?
>>
>>
>> It's always a good idea to upgrade, even if the bugs haven't all been
>> ironed out, you'll find that there's always security fixes which are
>> reason enough to upgrade.
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: mac-access-boun...@m

Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

2014-09-27 Thread Matthew Chao 

How do I find the change log?

Matthew Chao

At 01:39 PM 9/27/2014, you wrote:

,

I beleive the keyboard problem has been fixed according to the 
change log I saw.  Not sure about the tone problem as I only had it 
happened to me once and it was not durring anything importent.  Just 
my thoughts.


Matthew


On 09/27/2014 10:39 AM, Matthew Chao wrote:
Hello.  I'd like to thank those of you on the list who gave advice 
regarding upgrading.  While I agree the more the better regarding 
reporting bugs, I'm not a fan of aggravation trying to downgrade 
because you can't stand the new bugs you got with the upgrade.


Speaking of bugs, did iOS8.0.2 fix the Bluetooth bug and the sticky 
dialpad key issue(s)?  If so, I will upgrade, as I do make calls 
using the keypad, and use the Bluetooth keyboard a lot.


Matthew Chao

At 09:48 AM 9/27/2014, you wrote:
I could not agree more.  People that just sit back are not helping 
us at all.  Perhaps if we all updated and showed our interest in 
getting things fixed it would all happen a lot quicker and the 
likes of Appple may concentrate a little more on the voice over 
side of some great software. Everyone to their own I guess.




-Original Message- From: Shaun Oliver
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 6:06
To: 'OS X & iOS Accessibility'
Subject: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

I may be seen as confrontational with this response, but, I'mnot concerned
with that.

What concerns me, however, is the arrogants displayed by people who believe
they know better than they who've coded the operating system we're
discussing.

Regardless of accessibility bugs, which aren't insurmountable, I might add,
Each new IOS update includes security fixes to plug holes that were found in
the last revision and were picked up too late to be included in the cycle.
Irrespective of these bugs, a good number of which, have been addressed, to
a certain extent, to suggest that people not upgrade so as to maintain
useability, in my opinion is arrogant and gauche and utter folly. To suggest
you have no issues with security in a previous revision of IOS is again
folly.

It only takes one misplaced tap to introduce malware to the system or open
up a back door to be exploited by someone with little else to do than annoy
the rest of us.

If you want total security, you won't buy a smart phone. If you want
moderate security, you won't connect it to the internet. If you want
relative security, you'll stay on top of updates.



-Original Message-
From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net
[mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of Timothy J. Meloy
Sent: Saturday, 27 September 2014 16:16
To: OS X & iOS Accessibility
Subject: Re: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

I have not experienced some of the voice over bugs that have been widely
talked about. The pros outweigh the cons for upgrading.
TJ



On Sep 27, 2014, at 1:30 AM, Diane Bomar  wrote:

Unless there is something in IOS 8, that you absolutely must have, I would

encourage you to wait. After using IOS 8 for a week, on my new iPhone, I
definitely will not be updating this iPad mini, till some bugs are fixed.




Sent from my iPad

On Sep 26, 2014, at 11:07 PM, Glenn  wrote:

I don't think we need to worry about security in version 7.
Glenn
- Original Message -
From: "Shaun Oliver" 
To: "'OS X & iOS Accessibility'" 
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 11:57 PM
Subject: RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?


It's always a good idea to upgrade, even if the bugs haven't all been
ironed out, you'll find that there's always security fixes which are
reason enough to upgrade.


-Original Message-
From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net
[mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of Sarah k
Alawami
Sent: Saturday, 27 September 2014 14:25
To: mac access list iOS Accessibility
Subject: Re: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

Actually I heard some of the accessibility bugs have been fixed and
some work arounds as well. I myself will wait especially now that
apple stopped code signing ios7 so down grading really is not a
possibility anymore if you find somethign brakes.

At the same time how ever  the more of us that report bugs the more
apple might consider a fix for us.

On Sep 26, 2014, at 8:00 PM, Anna  wrote:

From the update info list given during update there were no
accessibilty

bug fixes listed, mainly cellular connectivity fixes.


I would wait.

Anna

Sent from my iPad


On Sep 26, 2014, at 10:30 PM, Matthew Chao  wrote:

Hi, Folks.  I have an iPhone 5 running the latest version of iOS7.
I've

heard that 8.0.0 had problems regarding the Bluetooth keyboards
working with VoiceOver.  Has this been fixed in iOS8.0.2? Also, what
about the sticking phone touch tone key?  Thanks in advance for info.


Matthew Chao

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to

mac-access@mac-access.net


You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access

forum

Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

2014-09-27 Thread Mark 
I am not going to upgrade to I OS 8 until there is some reliance upon 
usability. I don't believe there's any folly, in wanting to actually use the 
iPhone you have become reliant upon.
The folly, is that somehow upgrading to an in adequate upgrade, is better so 
all others will be better off because Apple customer service will hear from 
more people about what doesn't work.
For those that are brave enough, to express to Apple what doesn't work on their 
phones anymore….Go for it. Much thanks.


Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 27, 2014, at 10:49 AM, Eleanor Martha Burke 
 wrote:

Well my niece who is sighted said the upgrade really messed up her iPad.
- Original Message - From: "Glenn" 
To: "OS X & iOS Accessibility" 
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?


> Speaking of security, I seem to recall, in IOS 7, in the major release from
> 6x to 7, that there was a security breakage.
> Here is an example where it is more secure to stay with the older version.
> These developers are in too much of a rush to upgrade their OS.
> I think Apple wanted to get this out along side their new phone and rushed
> things too much.
> Plus, when things go bad, it is harder on those of use using the adaptive
> software we need to even use the device.
> Glenn
> - Original Message - From: "Graham Smith" 
> To: "OS X & iOS Accessibility" 
> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 8:48 AM
> Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?
> 
> 
> I could not agree more.  People that just sit back are not helping us at
> all.  Perhaps if we all updated and showed our interest in getting things
> fixed it would all happen a lot quicker and the likes of Appple may
> concentrate a little more on the voice over side of some great software.
> Everyone to their own I guess.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message- From: Shaun Oliver
> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 6:06
> To: 'OS X & iOS Accessibility'
> Subject: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?
> 
> I may be seen as confrontational with this response, but, I'mnot concerned
> with that.
> 
> What concerns me, however, is the arrogants displayed by people who believe
> they know better than they who've coded the operating system we're
> discussing.
> 
> Regardless of accessibility bugs, which aren't insurmountable, I might add,
> Each new IOS update includes security fixes to plug holes that were found in
> the last revision and were picked up too late to be included in the cycle.
> Irrespective of these bugs, a good number of which, have been addressed, to
> a certain extent, to suggest that people not upgrade so as to maintain
> useability, in my opinion is arrogant and gauche and utter folly. To suggest
> you have no issues with security in a previous revision of IOS is again
> folly.
> 
> It only takes one misplaced tap to introduce malware to the system or open
> up a back door to be exploited by someone with little else to do than annoy
> the rest of us.
> 
> If you want total security, you won't buy a smart phone. If you want
> moderate security, you won't connect it to the internet. If you want
> relative security, you'll stay on top of updates.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net
> [mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of Timothy J. Meloy
> Sent: Saturday, 27 September 2014 16:16
> To: OS X & iOS Accessibility
> Subject: Re: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?
> 
> I have not experienced some of the voice over bugs that have been widely
> talked about. The pros outweigh the cons for upgrading.
> TJ
> 
> 
>> On Sep 27, 2014, at 1:30 AM, Diane Bomar  wrote:
>> 
>> Unless there is something in IOS 8, that you absolutely must have, I would
> encourage you to wait. After using IOS 8 for a week, on my new iPhone, I
> definitely will not be updating this iPad mini, till some bugs are fixed.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On Sep 26, 2014, at 11:07 PM, Glenn  wrote:
>> 
>> I don't think we need to worry about security in version 7.
>> Glenn
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Shaun Oliver" 
>> To: "'OS X & iOS Accessibility'" 
>> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 11:57 PM
>> Subject: RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?
>> 
>> 
>> It's always a good idea to upgrade, even if the bugs haven't all been
>> ironed out, you'll find that there's always security fixes which are
>> reason enough to upgrade.
>> 
>> 
>> -O

Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

2014-09-27 Thread Eleanor Martha Burke 

Well my niece who is sighted said the upgrade really messed up her iPad.
- Original Message - 
From: "Glenn" 

To: "OS X & iOS Accessibility" 
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?


Speaking of security, I seem to recall, in IOS 7, in the major release 
from

6x to 7, that there was a security breakage.
Here is an example where it is more secure to stay with the older version.
These developers are in too much of a rush to upgrade their OS.
I think Apple wanted to get this out along side their new phone and rushed
things too much.
Plus, when things go bad, it is harder on those of use using the adaptive
software we need to even use the device.
Glenn
- Original Message - 
From: "Graham Smith" 

To: "OS X & iOS Accessibility" 
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?


I could not agree more.  People that just sit back are not helping us at
all.  Perhaps if we all updated and showed our interest in getting things
fixed it would all happen a lot quicker and the likes of Appple may
concentrate a little more on the voice over side of some great software.
Everyone to their own I guess.



-Original Message- 
From: Shaun Oliver

Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 6:06
To: 'OS X & iOS Accessibility'
Subject: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

I may be seen as confrontational with this response, but, I'mnot concerned
with that.

What concerns me, however, is the arrogants displayed by people who 
believe

they know better than they who've coded the operating system we're
discussing.

Regardless of accessibility bugs, which aren't insurmountable, I might 
add,
Each new IOS update includes security fixes to plug holes that were found 
in

the last revision and were picked up too late to be included in the cycle.
Irrespective of these bugs, a good number of which, have been addressed, 
to

a certain extent, to suggest that people not upgrade so as to maintain
useability, in my opinion is arrogant and gauche and utter folly. To 
suggest

you have no issues with security in a previous revision of IOS is again
folly.

It only takes one misplaced tap to introduce malware to the system or open
up a back door to be exploited by someone with little else to do than 
annoy

the rest of us.

If you want total security, you won't buy a smart phone. If you want
moderate security, you won't connect it to the internet. If you want
relative security, you'll stay on top of updates.



-Original Message-
From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net
[mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of Timothy J. Meloy
Sent: Saturday, 27 September 2014 16:16
To: OS X & iOS Accessibility
Subject: Re: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

I have not experienced some of the voice over bugs that have been widely
talked about. The pros outweigh the cons for upgrading.
TJ



On Sep 27, 2014, at 1:30 AM, Diane Bomar  wrote:

Unless there is something in IOS 8, that you absolutely must have, I 
would

encourage you to wait. After using IOS 8 for a week, on my new iPhone, I
definitely will not be updating this iPad mini, till some bugs are fixed.




Sent from my iPad

On Sep 26, 2014, at 11:07 PM, Glenn  wrote:

I don't think we need to worry about security in version 7.
Glenn
- Original Message -
From: "Shaun Oliver" 
To: "'OS X & iOS Accessibility'" 
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 11:57 PM
Subject: RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?


It's always a good idea to upgrade, even if the bugs haven't all been
ironed out, you'll find that there's always security fixes which are
reason enough to upgrade.


-Original Message-
From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net
[mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of Sarah k
Alawami
Sent: Saturday, 27 September 2014 14:25
To: mac access list iOS Accessibility
Subject: Re: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

Actually I heard some of the accessibility bugs have been fixed and
some work arounds as well. I myself will wait especially now that
apple stopped code signing ios7 so down grading really is not a
possibility anymore if you find somethign brakes.

At the same time how ever  the more of us that report bugs the more
apple might consider a fix for us.

On Sep 26, 2014, at 8:00 PM, Anna  wrote:

From the update info list given during update there were no
accessibilty

bug fixes listed, mainly cellular connectivity fixes.


I would wait.

Anna

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 26, 2014, at 10:30 PM, Matthew Chao  
wrote:


Hi, Folks.  I have an iPhone 5 running the latest version of iOS7.
I've

heard that 8.0.0 had problems regarding the Bluetooth keyboards
working with VoiceOver.  Has this been fixed in iOS8.0.2?  Also, what
about the sticking phone touch tone key?  Thanks in advance for

Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

2014-09-27 Thread matthew dyer 

,

I beleive the keyboard problem has been fixed according to the change 
log I saw.  Not sure about the tone problem as I only had it happened to 
me once and it was not durring anything importent.  Just my thoughts.


Matthew


On 09/27/2014 10:39 AM, Matthew Chao wrote:
Hello.  I'd like to thank those of you on the list who gave advice 
regarding upgrading.  While I agree the more the better regarding 
reporting bugs, I'm not a fan of aggravation trying to downgrade 
because you can't stand the new bugs you got with the upgrade.


Speaking of bugs, did iOS8.0.2 fix the Bluetooth bug and the sticky 
dialpad key issue(s)?  If so, I will upgrade, as I do make calls using 
the keypad, and use the Bluetooth keyboard a lot.


Matthew Chao

At 09:48 AM 9/27/2014, you wrote:
I could not agree more.  People that just sit back are not helping us 
at all.  Perhaps if we all updated and showed our interest in getting 
things fixed it would all happen a lot quicker and the likes of 
Appple may concentrate a little more on the voice over side of some 
great software. Everyone to their own I guess.




-Original Message- From: Shaun Oliver
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 6:06
To: 'OS X & iOS Accessibility'
Subject: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

I may be seen as confrontational with this response, but, I'mnot 
concerned

with that.

What concerns me, however, is the arrogants displayed by people who 
believe

they know better than they who've coded the operating system we're
discussing.

Regardless of accessibility bugs, which aren't insurmountable, I 
might add,
Each new IOS update includes security fixes to plug holes that were 
found in
the last revision and were picked up too late to be included in the 
cycle.
Irrespective of these bugs, a good number of which, have been 
addressed, to

a certain extent, to suggest that people not upgrade so as to maintain
useability, in my opinion is arrogant and gauche and utter folly. To 
suggest

you have no issues with security in a previous revision of IOS is again
folly.

It only takes one misplaced tap to introduce malware to the system or 
open
up a back door to be exploited by someone with little else to do than 
annoy

the rest of us.

If you want total security, you won't buy a smart phone. If you want
moderate security, you won't connect it to the internet. If you want
relative security, you'll stay on top of updates.



-Original Message-
From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net
[mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of Timothy J. Meloy
Sent: Saturday, 27 September 2014 16:16
To: OS X & iOS Accessibility
Subject: Re: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

I have not experienced some of the voice over bugs that have been widely
talked about. The pros outweigh the cons for upgrading.
TJ


On Sep 27, 2014, at 1:30 AM, Diane Bomar  
wrote:


Unless there is something in IOS 8, that you absolutely must have, I 
would

encourage you to wait. After using IOS 8 for a week, on my new iPhone, I
definitely will not be updating this iPad mini, till some bugs are 
fixed.




Sent from my iPad

On Sep 26, 2014, at 11:07 PM, Glenn  wrote:

I don't think we need to worry about security in version 7.
Glenn
- Original Message -
From: "Shaun Oliver" 
To: "'OS X & iOS Accessibility'" 
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 11:57 PM
Subject: RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?


It's always a good idea to upgrade, even if the bugs haven't all been
ironed out, you'll find that there's always security fixes which are
reason enough to upgrade.


-Original Message-
From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net
[mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of Sarah k
Alawami
Sent: Saturday, 27 September 2014 14:25
To: mac access list iOS Accessibility
Subject: Re: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

Actually I heard some of the accessibility bugs have been fixed and
some work arounds as well. I myself will wait especially now that
apple stopped code signing ios7 so down grading really is not a
possibility anymore if you find somethign brakes.

At the same time how ever  the more of us that report bugs the more
apple might consider a fix for us.

On Sep 26, 2014, at 8:00 PM, Anna  wrote:

From the update info list given during update there were no
accessibilty

bug fixes listed, mainly cellular connectivity fixes.


I would wait.

Anna

Sent from my iPad

On Sep 26, 2014, at 10:30 PM, Matthew Chao  
wrote:


Hi, Folks.  I have an iPhone 5 running the latest version of iOS7.
I've

heard that 8.0.0 had problems regarding the Bluetooth keyboards
working with VoiceOver.  Has this been fixed in iOS8.0.2? Also, what
about the sticking phone touch tone key?  Thanks in advance for info.


Matthew Chao

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Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

2014-09-27 Thread Glenn 
Speaking of security, I seem to recall, in IOS 7, in the major release from 
6x to 7, that there was a security breakage.
Here is an example where it is more secure to stay with the older version.
These developers are in too much of a rush to upgrade their OS.
I think Apple wanted to get this out along side their new phone and rushed 
things too much.
Plus, when things go bad, it is harder on those of use using the adaptive 
software we need to even use the device.
Glenn
- Original Message - 
From: "Graham Smith" 
To: "OS X & iOS Accessibility" 
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?


I could not agree more.  People that just sit back are not helping us at
all.  Perhaps if we all updated and showed our interest in getting things
fixed it would all happen a lot quicker and the likes of Appple may
concentrate a little more on the voice over side of some great software.
Everyone to their own I guess.



-Original Message- 
From: Shaun Oliver
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 6:06
To: 'OS X & iOS Accessibility'
Subject: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

I may be seen as confrontational with this response, but, I'mnot concerned
with that.

What concerns me, however, is the arrogants displayed by people who believe
they know better than they who've coded the operating system we're
discussing.

Regardless of accessibility bugs, which aren't insurmountable, I might add,
Each new IOS update includes security fixes to plug holes that were found in
the last revision and were picked up too late to be included in the cycle.
Irrespective of these bugs, a good number of which, have been addressed, to
a certain extent, to suggest that people not upgrade so as to maintain
useability, in my opinion is arrogant and gauche and utter folly. To suggest
you have no issues with security in a previous revision of IOS is again
folly.

It only takes one misplaced tap to introduce malware to the system or open
up a back door to be exploited by someone with little else to do than annoy
the rest of us.

If you want total security, you won't buy a smart phone. If you want
moderate security, you won't connect it to the internet. If you want
relative security, you'll stay on top of updates.



-Original Message-
From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net
[mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of Timothy J. Meloy
Sent: Saturday, 27 September 2014 16:16
To: OS X & iOS Accessibility
Subject: Re: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

I have not experienced some of the voice over bugs that have been widely
talked about. The pros outweigh the cons for upgrading.
TJ


> On Sep 27, 2014, at 1:30 AM, Diane Bomar  wrote:
>
> Unless there is something in IOS 8, that you absolutely must have, I would
encourage you to wait. After using IOS 8 for a week, on my new iPhone, I
definitely will not be updating this iPad mini, till some bugs are fixed.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Sep 26, 2014, at 11:07 PM, Glenn  wrote:
>
> I don't think we need to worry about security in version 7.
> Glenn
> - Original Message -
> From: "Shaun Oliver" 
> To: "'OS X & iOS Accessibility'" 
> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 11:57 PM
> Subject: RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?
>
>
> It's always a good idea to upgrade, even if the bugs haven't all been
> ironed out, you'll find that there's always security fixes which are
> reason enough to upgrade.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net
> [mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of Sarah k
> Alawami
> Sent: Saturday, 27 September 2014 14:25
> To: mac access list iOS Accessibility
> Subject: Re: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?
>
> Actually I heard some of the accessibility bugs have been fixed and
> some work arounds as well. I myself will wait especially now that
> apple stopped code signing ios7 so down grading really is not a
> possibility anymore if you find somethign brakes.
>
> At the same time how ever  the more of us that report bugs the more
> apple might consider a fix for us.
>> On Sep 26, 2014, at 8:00 PM, Anna  wrote:
>>
>> From the update info list given during update there were no
>> accessibilty
> bug fixes listed, mainly cellular connectivity fixes.
>>
>> I would wait.
>>
>> Anna
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>> On Sep 26, 2014, at 10:30 PM, Matthew Chao  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi, Folks.  I have an iPhone 5 running the latest version of iOS7.
>>> I've
> heard that 8.0.0 had problems regarding the Bluetooth keyboards
> working with VoiceOver.  Has this been fixed in iOS8.0.2?  Also, what
> about the s

Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

2014-09-27 Thread Matthew Chao 
Hello.  I'd like to thank those of you on the list who gave advice 
regarding upgrading.  While I agree the more the better regarding 
reporting bugs, I'm not a fan of aggravation trying to downgrade 
because you can't stand the new bugs you got with the upgrade.


Speaking of bugs, did iOS8.0.2 fix the Bluetooth bug and the sticky 
dialpad key issue(s)?  If so, I will upgrade, as I do make calls 
using the keypad, and use the Bluetooth keyboard a lot.


Matthew Chao

At 09:48 AM 9/27/2014, you wrote:
I could not agree more.  People that just sit back are not helping 
us at all.  Perhaps if we all updated and showed our interest in 
getting things fixed it would all happen a lot quicker and the likes 
of Appple may concentrate a little more on the voice over side of 
some great software. Everyone to their own I guess.




-Original Message- From: Shaun Oliver
Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 6:06
To: 'OS X & iOS Accessibility'
Subject: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

I may be seen as confrontational with this response, but, I'mnot concerned
with that.

What concerns me, however, is the arrogants displayed by people who believe
they know better than they who've coded the operating system we're
discussing.

Regardless of accessibility bugs, which aren't insurmountable, I might add,
Each new IOS update includes security fixes to plug holes that were found in
the last revision and were picked up too late to be included in the cycle.
Irrespective of these bugs, a good number of which, have been addressed, to
a certain extent, to suggest that people not upgrade so as to maintain
useability, in my opinion is arrogant and gauche and utter folly. To suggest
you have no issues with security in a previous revision of IOS is again
folly.

It only takes one misplaced tap to introduce malware to the system or open
up a back door to be exploited by someone with little else to do than annoy
the rest of us.

If you want total security, you won't buy a smart phone. If you want
moderate security, you won't connect it to the internet. If you want
relative security, you'll stay on top of updates.



-Original Message-
From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net
[mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of Timothy J. Meloy
Sent: Saturday, 27 September 2014 16:16
To: OS X & iOS Accessibility
Subject: Re: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

I have not experienced some of the voice over bugs that have been widely
talked about. The pros outweigh the cons for upgrading.
TJ



On Sep 27, 2014, at 1:30 AM, Diane Bomar  wrote:

Unless there is something in IOS 8, that you absolutely must have, I would

encourage you to wait. After using IOS 8 for a week, on my new iPhone, I
definitely will not be updating this iPad mini, till some bugs are fixed.




Sent from my iPad

On Sep 26, 2014, at 11:07 PM, Glenn  wrote:

I don't think we need to worry about security in version 7.
Glenn
- Original Message -
From: "Shaun Oliver" 
To: "'OS X & iOS Accessibility'" 
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 11:57 PM
Subject: RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?


It's always a good idea to upgrade, even if the bugs haven't all been
ironed out, you'll find that there's always security fixes which are
reason enough to upgrade.


-Original Message-
From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net
[mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of Sarah k
Alawami
Sent: Saturday, 27 September 2014 14:25
To: mac access list iOS Accessibility
Subject: Re: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

Actually I heard some of the accessibility bugs have been fixed and
some work arounds as well. I myself will wait especially now that
apple stopped code signing ios7 so down grading really is not a
possibility anymore if you find somethign brakes.

At the same time how ever  the more of us that report bugs the more
apple might consider a fix for us.

On Sep 26, 2014, at 8:00 PM, Anna  wrote:

From the update info list given during update there were no
accessibilty

bug fixes listed, mainly cellular connectivity fixes.


I would wait.

Anna

Sent from my iPad


On Sep 26, 2014, at 10:30 PM, Matthew Chao  wrote:

Hi, Folks.  I have an iPhone 5 running the latest version of iOS7.
I've

heard that 8.0.0 had problems regarding the Bluetooth keyboards
working with VoiceOver.  Has this been fixed in iOS8.0.2?  Also, what
about the sticking phone touch tone key?  Thanks in advance for info.


Matthew Chao

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to

mac-access@mac-access.net


You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access

forum

at the list's public Mail Archive:

.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:


As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure
that

the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and
worm-

Re: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

2014-09-27 Thread Graham Smith 
I could not agree more.  People that just sit back are not helping us at 
all.  Perhaps if we all updated and showed our interest in getting things 
fixed it would all happen a lot quicker and the likes of Appple may 
concentrate a little more on the voice over side of some great software. 
Everyone to their own I guess.




-Original Message- 
From: Shaun Oliver

Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 6:06
To: 'OS X & iOS Accessibility'
Subject: [Bulk] RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

I may be seen as confrontational with this response, but, I'mnot concerned
with that.

What concerns me, however, is the arrogants displayed by people who believe
they know better than they who've coded the operating system we're
discussing.

Regardless of accessibility bugs, which aren't insurmountable, I might add,
Each new IOS update includes security fixes to plug holes that were found in
the last revision and were picked up too late to be included in the cycle.
Irrespective of these bugs, a good number of which, have been addressed, to
a certain extent, to suggest that people not upgrade so as to maintain
useability, in my opinion is arrogant and gauche and utter folly. To suggest
you have no issues with security in a previous revision of IOS is again
folly.

It only takes one misplaced tap to introduce malware to the system or open
up a back door to be exploited by someone with little else to do than annoy
the rest of us.

If you want total security, you won't buy a smart phone. If you want
moderate security, you won't connect it to the internet. If you want
relative security, you'll stay on top of updates.



-Original Message-
From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net
[mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of Timothy J. Meloy
Sent: Saturday, 27 September 2014 16:16
To: OS X & iOS Accessibility
Subject: Re: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

I have not experienced some of the voice over bugs that have been widely
talked about. The pros outweigh the cons for upgrading.
TJ



On Sep 27, 2014, at 1:30 AM, Diane Bomar  wrote:

Unless there is something in IOS 8, that you absolutely must have, I would

encourage you to wait. After using IOS 8 for a week, on my new iPhone, I
definitely will not be updating this iPad mini, till some bugs are fixed.




Sent from my iPad

On Sep 26, 2014, at 11:07 PM, Glenn  wrote:

I don't think we need to worry about security in version 7.
Glenn
- Original Message -
From: "Shaun Oliver" 
To: "'OS X & iOS Accessibility'" 
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 11:57 PM
Subject: RE: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?


It's always a good idea to upgrade, even if the bugs haven't all been
ironed out, you'll find that there's always security fixes which are
reason enough to upgrade.


-Original Message-
From: mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net
[mailto:mac-access-boun...@mac-access.net] On Behalf Of Sarah k
Alawami
Sent: Saturday, 27 September 2014 14:25
To: mac access list iOS Accessibility
Subject: Re: iOS 8.0.2, to Upgrade or Not?

Actually I heard some of the accessibility bugs have been fixed and
some work arounds as well. I myself will wait especially now that
apple stopped code signing ios7 so down grading really is not a
possibility anymore if you find somethign brakes.

At the same time how ever  the more of us that report bugs the more
apple might consider a fix for us.

On Sep 26, 2014, at 8:00 PM, Anna  wrote:

From the update info list given during update there were no
accessibilty

bug fixes listed, mainly cellular connectivity fixes.


I would wait.

Anna

Sent from my iPad


On Sep 26, 2014, at 10:30 PM, Matthew Chao  wrote:

Hi, Folks.  I have an iPhone 5 running the latest version of iOS7.
I've

heard that 8.0.0 had problems regarding the Bluetooth keyboards
working with VoiceOver.  Has this been fixed in iOS8.0.2?  Also, what
about the sticking phone touch tone key?  Thanks in advance for info.


Matthew Chao

<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

To reply to this post, please address your message to

mac-access@mac-access.net


You can find an archive of all messages postedto the Mac-Access

forum

at the list's public Mail Archive:

.
Subscribe to the list's RSS feed from:


As the Mac Access Dot Net administrators, we always strive to ensure
that

the Mac-Access E-Mal list remains malware, spyware, Trojan, virus and
worm-free.  However, this should in no way replace your own security
strategy.  We assume neither liability nor responsibility should
something unpredictable happen.


Please remember to update your membership preferences periodically
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<--- Mac Access At Mac Access Dot Net --->

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