Re: app to close mail preview?

[Jonathan Cohn]

Hello Anne and Robert,

I still have the app around, and if you want to learn how to script UI 
Interfaces in AppleScript it could be fun to look at. 

I was unable to get the double click to work, but I did interact  with the 
vertical splitter just and was then able to move it fully to the right with 
vo-shift-right . Two or three clicks did it.
   
Best wishes,

Jonathan



> On 5 Jul 2016, at 10:36, Anne Robertson  wrote:
> 
> Hello Robert,
> 
> I’m pretty sure that you can now get rid of the preview pane by just bringing 
> the mouse to the splitter and double clicking using VO-Shift-Space.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Anne
> 
> 
> 
>> On 5 Jul 2016, at 16:26, Robert Cole  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> dear List,
>> A list member named Johnathan had a app to close the mail preview window in 
>> Mac Mail.
>> If Johnathan is on this list, or if any of you, have the app, could you 
>> please send it to me?
>> mr.robertc...@icloud.com 
>> 
>> Thanks in advance.
>> Robert Cole
>> 
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Re: semi-ot: Sonar virtual machines and dealing with virtual box

[Jonathan Cohn]

I tried your instructions, I hear the drumbeat. But then I do not get any
speech. Do you have any ideas?
On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 7:43 AM Scott Granados  wrote:

> All you do is boot holding the shift key down, you hear a drumbeat deal
> and then speech starts.
>
> Should be relatively straight forward.
>
>
> On Jul 1, 2016, at 7:22 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
>
> Hmm, how were you able to boot with speech? I didn’t think much of trying
> the mainstream distros, since I’ve heard that Unity isn’t accessible mostly.
> Sent from my Mac.
>
> Devin Prater
> d.pra...@me.com
>
>
>
> On Jul 1, 2016, at 6:11 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>
> How did you try to install it under VMWare?
>
> One thing I had excellent luck with was Ubuntu under vmware fusion.  You
> can install it and boot with speech and you pretty much use the normal
> image creation tool, select the image, enter the type of Linux and give it
> a few minutes to build a VM.
>
> That might be something to try.
>
> On Jul 1, 2016, at 7:02 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
>
> Hi all. So on my path to learning Linux stuff, I’ve gotten Emacspeak to
> work with the help of Twitter folks, but now wanna see if Linux will be
> useful to me as a whole. I’ve gotten Fedora working, sort of, but there
> aren’t any blind-specific packages that I see on other Linux lists, so I
> now turn to Sonar. I’ve had VmWare Fusion for a while now, but using Sonar
> with it just fails after installation, nothing happens. So I got Virtual
> Box in order to play with an Android talking virtual machine, which stopped
> talking after updating talkback, and found that besides freezes, probably
> from it being Android, ported to x86 architecture, it ran pretty quickly
> and responsively, unlike VmWare unless you tweet settings in VMX files. So,
> are there any tips for more easily using Virtual Box, like adding iOS files
> to virtual machines and running them, when I tried it didn’t work, or
> anyone that has a Sonar Virtual machine that works in Virtual box, or
> VmWare somehow?
> Sent from my Mac.
>
> Devin Prater
> d.pra...@me.com
>
>
>
>
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Re: vm and insert key?

[Nancy Badger]

Is there a tutorial anywhere for using VM? Especially with VoiceOver?

Nancy Badger, Ph.D
Assistant Vice Chancellor, Student Services
UT Chattanooga
Sent from my iPhone with dictation software. Please excuse spelling errors.

> On Jul 6, 2016, at 3:27 AM, Sandi Jazmin Kruse  wrote:
> 
> Hi, i found a guide about it, here is what you do.
> go to the from box, press the key left too your number 1 on your
> keyboard, to go too the too box, press Vo-space, and a list comes up,
> select the right key, and you are golden.
> Amazing that little mac book can run windows xp, ss
> 
>> On 7/5/16, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> Just to be clear, are you using sharp keys to make this adjustment or how
>> are you remapping in vmware?
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 5, 2016, at 11:30 AM, Sandi Jazmin Kruse 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi. in short, what do you do in the too field under mapping of keys in
>>> vmware?
>>> i can get from field in cutely enough, but i seem to remember there is
>>> a list of keys in the too combo box, but when i interact with it ,
>>> nothing happens,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best Sandi, who is apparently it  seems  having a blonde moment
>>> despite black mane :)
>>> 
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Re: vm and insert key?

[Scott Granados]

Be very careful, security isn’t supported any more or if it is at a minimum.  
You’re working in a VM which can help limit a lot of the damage but be careful. 
 I’m sure you know this.

Good luck.

> On Jul 6, 2016, at 8:45 AM, Sandi Jazmin Kruse  wrote:
> 
> i aint needing anything more than xp, i only need it for reads and
> scanning, if i needed better, i would get it :)
> 
> On 7/6/16, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> Ah it sounds like sharp keys.
>> 
>> Don’t bother with XP, it’s outdated, try win 8 or win 10.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 6, 2016, at 3:27 AM, Sandi Jazmin Kruse 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi, i found a guide about it, here is what you do.
>>> go to the from box, press the key left too your number 1 on your
>>> keyboard, to go too the too box, press Vo-space, and a list comes up,
>>> select the right key, and you are golden.
>>> Amazing that little mac book can run windows xp, ss
>>> 
>>> On 7/5/16, Scott Granados  wrote:
 Just to be clear, are you using sharp keys to make this adjustment or
 how
 are you remapping in vmware?
 
 
> On Jul 5, 2016, at 11:30 AM, Sandi Jazmin Kruse 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi. in short, what do you do in the too field under mapping of keys in
> vmware?
> i can get from field in cutely enough, but i seem to remember there is
> a list of keys in the too combo box, but when i interact with it ,
> nothing happens,
> 
> 
> Best Sandi, who is apparently it  seems  having a blonde moment
> despite black mane :)
> 
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Re: On a serious note Scott

[Scott Granados]

That was a very good guess, seems he responded though that the port was loaded. 
 The only other thing I might suggest is running a permissions repair on the 
disk.

Martin, quick question, are you using a rotating disk or an SSD storage device? 
 I assume you know this but if not you could check under the finder, apple 
menu, about this Mac, and under the storage section it will tell you the types 
installed.

Rotating disks can definitely cause this behavior, especially if they are near 
full.  Another guess but maybe we’ll get lucky and nail the problem.

Thank you
Scott

> On Jul 6, 2016, at 10:34 AM, Arnold Schmidt  wrote:
> 
> I am curious:  Are you using your device with a monitor connected to it?  I 
> don't know if this monitor has to be on, or not, it very well might have to 
> be.   If you are, the rest of this answer does not apply.
> 
> Apparently, the mac needs to have a load connected to the HDMI port or it 
> will give the symptom you described, VoiceOver saying busy.  I bought what I 
> call a dummy load to connect to the HDMI port of my mac mini.  Go to amazon, 
> and search the word compulab.  What you want apparently is used by those who 
> use the mac mini as a server.  It goes for about $15.  In the brief time I 
> had it, VoiceOver never said busy.
> 
> Arnold Schmidt
> - Original Message - From: "Martin Brown" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 9:17 AM
> Subject: On a serious note Scott
> 
> 
>> Hi Scott.
>> Thankfully I'm not as paranoid as my last post might suggest. Just having a
>> hard day with the Mail App. No matter what I want to do, I get a lot of
>> 'busy busy' from good old Alex. Perhaps my system just needs a good old
>> clean install.
>> 
>> On a serious note, it is sad, if true, that those whom we put our trust in
>> let us down in such an appalling way. But as you say, there are a lot of
>> good people doing the best they can with the resources at their disposal.
>> 
>> I have no doubt that the upgrade to Narrator coming next month will not
>> include a talking installer. Perhaps someday it will. It is a long time
>> overdue. If there are those who are suppose to have our best interests at
>> heart, and through their greed have pushed that possibility further down the
>> road than it should be at this time, well shame on them.
>> Kind Regards:
>> Martin
>> 
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Re: 4th of July Coverage with Apple TV4?

[tim]

The PBS coverage of the 4th was a
total  failure with a rebroadcast of a different 4th , and had lots of 
complaints. So you didn’t miss much. 
> On Jul 4, 2016, at 7:26 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> At the top of the hour, 8:00PM Eastern, PBS is doing their yearly 4th of July 
> celebration.
>  
> Does anyone know if I can watch if live with my Apple TV 4th gen?  Yes, I do 
> have the PBS app installed.  I just can't recall if the app let's you watch 
> the network live, or not.
>  
> If not, I'll just watch with my Time Warner, although it would be very very 
> nice to watch in my studio on my 5.1 surround sound.
>  
> Chris.
> ---
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> JAWS Certified, 2016.
> Training Instructor.
>  
> clgillan...@gmail.com 
> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
> 
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Re: Some questions about BlindSquare

[Ben J. Bloomgren]

Swarm is now what Foursquare was. You need to log into Swarm first as 
far as I can tell. Foursquare itself has become more of a competitor to 
Yelp and such. That may be the problem. You need Swarm. I love using the 
Swarm/Foursquare features within Blindsquare, as I'm a common Swarm 
user. I love to use Swarm venues because it makes superfluous the need 
to hunt down addresses.



Ben


On 7/6/2016 6:44, Mike Busboom wrote:

This is helpful.  Thank you for taking the time to respond, Jessica.

Best,

Mike

On 4,Jul,2016, at 14:51, Jessica Moss  wrote:

When running google/apple maps, you just tell blindsquare to launch either/or 
when planning a route, and they will open automaticly.  As far as running 
4square in the background, you do have to have a 4square account.
  I currently have one, which is launched by default within the app itself, but 
for some off-the-wall reason, whenever I try this method within blindsquare, it 
still wants me to log in, which is a major pain, sense I haven’t physically 
logged in in ages, and only want to use that feature once in a blue moon when I 
want to use the look around feature.

On Jul 4, 2016, at 8:12 AM, Mike Busboom  wrote:

Greetings,

On occasion, I use BlindSquare and really like it.  However, I am thinking that 
I could get more use from the app if I dug more thoroughly into understanding 
all of its features.  I have two questions that may have been answered in the 
manual, though I don’t remember seeing them addressed. Any help would be truly 
appreciated.

1.  The BlindSquare manual says that you can use several different third-party 
apps in conjunction with BlindSquare.  I am wondering if these apps need to be 
running in the background, or does BlindSquare automatically grab information 
from them and present the info within a BlindSquare Dialogue box.  In other 
words, would I go into a settings menu somewhere and pick what third-party app 
BlindSquare would interrogate?  I really like Google Maps on my iPhone, and I’d 
like to use its capabilities with BlindSquare.  In all likelihood, I probably 
need to have Google Maps running simultaneously with BlindSquare, but I just 
want to make sure.

2.  In order to take full advantage of the FourSquare features available in 
BlindSquare, do I need to register with FourSquare?

Thanks to all,

Mike

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Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

[Joseph Hudson]

Arnold, if you ever get another one I would like to offer you some free 
one-on-one support with assisting you with your Mac in your tough struggles. My 
information that I would like you to have been say is below in my signature. I 
had my Mac from most two years and I don't regret getting it. I will say this, 
I can probably work a few more websites now that I couldn't work with Jaws with 
my Mac or my iPho and this message is not just for Arnold this is for anybody 
who has trouble with the Mac still free to use interviews my information in my 
signature as well as you wish.
Joseph Hudson
Email
jhud7...@gmail.com 
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89 facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404 

Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89 

FaceTime/iMessage
jhud7...@yahoo.com 
> On Jul 6, 2016, at 3:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt  wrote:
> 
> I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two 
> weeks, concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after all 
> yesterday, which was my last day to return it.  
>  
> To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just wasn't 
> getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I would turn it 
> on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things that I 
> thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more frustrating 
> than fun, being that I could very easily do those things in Windows, or on my 
> iPhone.  And in the end, what was going to be the real benefit to me?  ITunes 
> allegedly easier to use, and being able to install the OS myself.  
>  
> Being that yesterday was going to be my last day, I started out intending to 
> put in a lot of extra time with it, before the time for my paratransit trip 
> to return it arrived, which I still thought I was going to cancel.  So, I 
> decided to log into my bank web site, which I had not attempted yet.  I 
> successfully passed the first step in the two-step verification, but then, no 
> matter what I tried, I couldn't get it to read the security question it 
> wanted answered.  No problem in Windows, or my iPhone, no go on this Mac 
> mini.  I could tell  the location for the answer field, I could find what 
> should have been the question field, it just wouldn't read anything.  I typed 
> in the answer to one of my security questions, which, of course, was the 
> wrong answer for the question it was asking.  I am sure the inability to get 
> it to read the security question was mine, not the Mac Mini's .  So, I closed 
> Safari, then decided to turn on keyboard help, just to try differing 
> combinations of keys I had never tried before to see what it would say.  I 
> was trying the function keys, and hit a key at the very right end of them, 
> and it just shut off.  Nothing I did would get VoiceOver talking again.  I 
> tried the three-finger triple tap on the track pad,then the three-finger 
> double tap which is what it is on my iPhone,  turned the track pad commander 
> off and on, turned the whole computer off and back on, nothing.  And this was 
> my last day.
>  
> I wish I had had 30 days.  If I had had, I still don't think it would have 
> gone back.  But I didn't want to be one of those people who never quite got 
> it, but it was too late to take it back, and I had over 900 dollars invested 
> in the thing.  Even though it would have put me lower in my checking account 
> than I wanted to be, I should have kept the Windows 10 Lenovo I bought from 
> Costco, and the Mac Mini, too, knowing one of them was going back.  I bought 
> the Lenovo first, after having talked myself out of buying a Mac, again.  
> Sometime before Microsoft stops supporting Vista next spring, there will be 
> another good deal come through Costco.
>  
> I always had wanted to try a Mac, I am glad I did.  But it ended up being so 
> much tedium and frustration to me, as compared to what I already know, with 
> not all that much seeming benefit in the end. I fully expected not to know 
> what I was doing for a while, but I thought it would have begun to get easier 
> by yesterday, which, I guess, it wasn't, even with the two books I have.  
>  
> Arnold Schmidt  
> 
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Re: Copying text from html content

[E.T.]

   Thanks so much, Tim. The shift arrow worked but I will work with the 
other commands too and see what works better.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 7/6/2016 12:03 PM, Tim Kilburn wrote:

Hi,

Usually, shift-arrow will work.  If it doesn't though, try navigating to the 
spot, then press VO-cmd-return, then VO navigate to the end of what you wish 
copied, then press VO-cmd-return again followed by cmd-c to Copy.  If that 
doesn't work, try cmd-a to Select All, then open a blank TextEdit document, 
press cmd-shift-t to make the document Plain Text then cmd-v to Paste it in.  
Now, find the portion of the web page you wish copied, and use regular methods.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jul 6, 2016, at 12:23, E.T.  wrote:

  I wish to copy a portion of a help file to paste into a file for quick 
reference. The usual commands do not seem to work here. Can it be done?

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com



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<>

Re: Copying text from html content

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

Usually, shift-arrow will work.  If it doesn't though, try navigating to the 
spot, then press VO-cmd-return, then VO navigate to the end of what you wish 
copied, then press VO-cmd-return again followed by cmd-c to Copy.  If that 
doesn't work, try cmd-a to Select All, then open a blank TextEdit document, 
press cmd-shift-t to make the document Plain Text then cmd-v to Paste it in.  
Now, find the portion of the web page you wish copied, and use regular methods.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

On Jul 6, 2016, at 12:23, E.T.  wrote:

  I wish to copy a portion of a help file to paste into a file for quick 
reference. The usual commands do not seem to work here. Can it be done?

>From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

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Re: For the attention of Arnold

[Kawal Gucukoglu]

I have a MacMini and it runs without a monitor.  However I have put a headless 
device in the port where you are supposed to plug a monitor and there are no 
complaints.  You can get these from Headlessdevices.com (you might have to 
google that website as I got this from a friend)  you can find them on Amazon.  
May be you may wish to do this if you don’t want to do a clean install for the 
moment.  I am happy with both my computers, MacMini and I Mac.  I use the 
MacMini if I don’t want to sit down stairs in front of my I Mac.

Thanks.

Kawal.
> On 6 Jul 2016, at 19:47, Martin Brown  wrote:
> 
> Thank you for the information Arnold. And yes, I do have a monitor attached
> to my Mac Mini. Indeed, when I first bought this little baby I was of the
> opinion that they could run without  one. It almost drove me crazy every
> time I went on the web. So, sadly that is not what is causing poor old Alex
> to throw his toys out of his pram on this occasion.
> 
> I shall give it a go again tomorrow and perhaps, as sometimes is the case
> with computers, it might have sorted itself. If not, then I shall do a clean
> install when I have a little more time on my hands.
> Thank you once again Arnold .
> Kind Regards:
> Martin  
> 
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> 
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I'm fundraising for RNIB.

Please help me make a difference by making a donation to my Virgin Money Giving 
page. 

To find out more about what I'm doing and why, please visit 
http://www.virginmoneygiving.com/team/RNIBiceland where you can also sponsor me 
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For the attention of Arnold

[Martin Brown]

Thank you for the information Arnold. And yes, I do have a monitor attached
to my Mac Mini. Indeed, when I first bought this little baby I was of the
opinion that they could run without  one. It almost drove me crazy every
time I went on the web. So, sadly that is not what is causing poor old Alex
to throw his toys out of his pram on this occasion.

I shall give it a go again tomorrow and perhaps, as sometimes is the case
with computers, it might have sorted itself. If not, then I shall do a clean
install when I have a little more time on my hands.
Thank you once again Arnold .
Kind Regards:
Martin  

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Copying text from html content

[E.T.]

   I wish to copy a portion of a help file to paste into a file for 
quick reference. The usual commands do not seem to work here. Can it be 
done?


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

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<>

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

[Arnold Schmidt]

I got an iPhone 5 in October, 2012, and now have an iPhone 6.   I consider 
them to be the most life changing pieces of electronics I have ever bought. 
I wanted to try this Mac Mini,   and am willing to give a Mac another 
attempt in the future.


Arnold Schmidt
- Original Message - 
From: "christopher hallsworth" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 11:18 AM
Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back


I would have gone for an iPod. It’s an iPhone, without the phone. So you can 
spend as little or as much time with it as necessary, without being tied to 
any sort of contract. This was my first ever iOS device, the iPod Touch 4th 
Generation, and about six months later I migrated to the iPhone 4. To date, 
I have an iPod Touch 6th Generation, iPhone 5s and iPad Mini 2. I have other 
Apple products, but these will be kept off the list for now. I would highly 
recommend anyone to start out with an iPod before trying an iPhone. Just my 
£0.02 worth and it worked like a charm for me.

On 6 Jul 2016, at 16:00, Arnold Schmidt  wrote:

Apple is the one who imposed the deadline.  I called Apple Accessibility, 
and the Apple main number, trying to get it extended, no luck.


I'll bet we all know blind people who get an iPhone, and just don't seem 
to get it.  They end up getting Searie to do everything for them, because 
they just never seem to have caught on to using the touch screen.  By 
then, they have their iPhone, like it or not, and would have to pay a big 
cancellation fee to return it.  I just didn't want to have all this money 
invested in something that I very well may, but may not have caught onto 
eventually.   By no means did I expect to be fluent at it by yesterday, 
but I think I should have been getting it, a little more than I was by the 
deadline. I am not opposed to trying it again in the future.  It will have 
to be some kind of cheaper alternative, though, until I feel confident 
that I am going to get it.  I wish Apple had given me more time.


Arnold Schmidt
- Original Message - 
From: Scott Granados

To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

Arnold, you never stood a chance.  You can’t learn an operating system in 
2 weeks, thinking you could was unreasonable.  I wouldn’t even undertake 
such a thing with a limited time frame like that ant ai have 35 years of 
computer experience.  Also, you went in to it with the wrong mindset. I 
remember the first posts you had set up for failure on day 1.  It’s like 
learning a language, you can’t learn it word by word or just in dribs and 
drabs, the only real way to learn is full emersion.  If I were learning 
French I’d head to France and plop down in the middle of the country 
where i didn’t have a choice.  Same with computing.  When you decide to 
learn a new operating system you have to cut your self off from the old. 
You have to build up all new muscle memory for keyboard commands.  I’d 
say 10 to 1 you kept issuing windows type keyboard commands on the Mac 
and introducing problems not for anything you are doing wrong just 
because you’re new and have built up years of muscle memory for commands 
in Windows.
You also didn’t value learning the Mac.  You mentioned several times even 
in your first post that you wouldn’t gain anything.  So in the end I’m 
not sure why you bothered.  That’s like walking in to the job interview, 
telling your self you’re not going to get the job anyway and then living 
up to your expectations.:)  If you ever try this again with any platform 
don’t limit yourself to an unreasonable amount of time.  Maybe try an 
operating system like a Linux variant or something with is totally free 
out of the box, won’t cause any financial pressure and you can dedicate 
to it with out otherdistractions like worrying about the costs. No 
matter what, good job or giving it a crack.  It’s good to push the 
boundaries and I’m glad you gave it a shot.


P.S. Stay away from Costco.  They totally screwed that migration from 
Amex.  I canceled my membership because of the sloppy rollout.




On Jul 6, 2016, at 4:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt  
wrote:


I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two 
weeks, concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after 
all yesterday, which was my last day to return it.


To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just 
wasn't getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I 
would turn it on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do 
things that I thought I had already learned, and it definitely was 
getting more frustrating than fun, being that I could very easily do 
those things in Windows, or on my iPhone.  And in the end, what was 
going to be the real benefit to me?  ITunes allegedly easier to use, and 
being able to install the OS myself.


Being that yesterday was going to be my last day, I started out 
intending

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

[Anne Robertson]

Hello Arnold,

I think it’s quite unreasonable to expect to learn a new operating system in 
two weeks. However, I don’t see why we as blind people should get any special 
treatment from Apple when it comes to buying a computer. What I really like 
about Apple products is that I don’t need to deal with any blindness 
organisations for me to be able to use my Mac and my iPhone out of the box.
And Apple are now even selling Braille displays, although the price is rather 
high.

Cheers,

Anne



> On 6 Jul 2016, at 17:00, Arnold Schmidt  wrote:
> 
> Apple is the one who imposed the deadline.  I called Apple Accessibility, and 
> the Apple main number, trying to get it extended, no luck.  
>  
> I'll bet we all know blind people who get an iPhone, and just don't seem to 
> get it.  They end up getting Searie to do everything for them, because they 
> just never seem to have caught on to using the touch screen.  By then, they 
> have their iPhone, like it or not, and would have to pay a big cancellation 
> fee to return it.  I just didn't want to have all this money invested in 
> something that I very well may, but may not have caught onto eventually.   By 
> no means did I expect to be fluent at it by yesterday, but I think I should 
> have been getting it, a little more than I was by the deadline. I am not 
> opposed to trying it again in the future.  It will have to be some kind of 
> cheaper alternative, though, until I feel confident that I am going to get 
> it.  I wish Apple had given me more time.  
>  
> Arnold Schmidt
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: Scott Granados 
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 8:19 AM
>> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>> 
>> Arnold, you never stood a chance.  You can’t learn an operating system in 2 
>> weeks, thinking you could was unreasonable.  I wouldn’t even undertake such 
>> a thing with a limited time frame like that ant ai have 35 years of computer 
>> experience.  Also, you went in to it with the wrong mindset. I remember the 
>> first posts you had set up for failure on day 1.  It’s like learning a 
>> language, you can’t learn it word by word or just in dribs and drabs, the 
>> only real way to learn is full emersion.  If I were learning French I’d head 
>> to France and plop down in the middle of the country where i didn’t have a 
>> choice.  Same with computing.  When you decide to learn a new operating 
>> system you have to cut your self off from the old.  You have to build up all 
>> new muscle memory for keyboard commands.  I’d say 10 to 1 you kept issuing 
>> windows type keyboard commands on the Mac and introducing problems not for 
>> anything you are doing wrong just because you’re new and have built up years 
>> of muscle memory for commands in Windows. 
>> You also didn’t value learning the Mac.  You mentioned several times even in 
>> your first post that you wouldn’t gain anything.  So in the end I’m not sure 
>> why you bothered.  That’s like walking in to the job interview, telling your 
>> self you’re not going to get the job anyway and then living up to your 
>> expectations.:)  If you ever try this again with any platform don’t limit 
>> yourself to an unreasonable amount of time.  Maybe try an operating system 
>> like a Linux variant or something with is totally free out of the box, won’t 
>> cause any financial pressure and you can dedicate to it with out other 
>> distractions like worrying about the costs. No matter what, good job or 
>> giving it a crack.  It’s good to push the boundaries and I’m glad you gave 
>> it a shot.
>> 
>> P.S. Stay away from Costco.  They totally screwed that migration from Amex.  
>> I canceled my membership because of the sloppy rollout.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 6, 2016, at 4:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two 
>>> weeks, concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after 
>>> all yesterday, which was my last day to return it.  
>>>  
>>> To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just wasn't 
>>> getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I would turn 
>>> it on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things that I 
>>> thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more 
>>> frustrating than fun, being that I could very easily do those things in 
>>> Windows, or on my iPhone.  And in the end, what was going to be the real 
>>> benefit to me?  ITunes allegedly easier to use, and being able to install 
>>> the OS myself.  
>>>  
>>> Being that yesterday was going to be my last day, I started out intending 
>>> to put in a lot of extra time with it, before the time for my paratransit 
>>> trip to return it arrived, which I still thought I was going to cancel.  
>>> So, I decided to log into my ba

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

[Katie Zodrow]

Hey Arnold.
I'm surprised you didn't rent a Mac for 30 days just to try it out. You 
could've gone to a computer rental place and asked if you could rent a Mac. I 
think that would've been a lot cheaper than going to the Apple Store. I did 
that three years ago and rented from a computer place in Burbank California. I 
didn't even go to the Apple Store to do a contract thing. I just wanted to 
learn and try out Mac OS X to see if I'd like it. I rented from the computer 
place for five months, and that's how long it took me to learn voiceover and 
some of the applications like text Edit, GarageBand, Safari, and using the 
finder. I mainly use the Mac for everything now, and rarely ever use a Windows 
PC.
I'm glad you gave it a shot though. Hopefully next time you can try using one 
for 30 days to see if you like it.
Katie
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2016, at 8:00 AM, Arnold Schmidt  wrote:
> 
> Apple is the one who imposed the deadline.  I called Apple Accessibility, and 
> the Apple main number, trying to get it extended, no luck. 
>  
> I'll bet we all know blind people who get an iPhone, and just don't seem to 
> get it.  They end up getting Searie to do everything for them, because they 
> just never seem to have caught on to using the touch screen.  By then, they 
> have their iPhone, like it or not, and would have to pay a big cancellation 
> fee to return it.  I just didn't want to have all this money invested in 
> something that I very well may, but may not have caught onto eventually.   By 
> no means did I expect to be fluent at it by yesterday, but I think I should 
> have been getting it, a little more than I was by the deadline. I am not 
> opposed to trying it again in the future.  It will have to be some kind of 
> cheaper alternative, though, until I feel confident that I am going to get 
> it.  I wish Apple had given me more time. 
>  
> Arnold Schmidt
> - Original Message -
> From: Scott Granados
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 8:19 AM
> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
> 
> Arnold, you never stood a chance.  You can’t learn an operating system in 2 
> weeks, thinking you could was unreasonable.  I wouldn’t even undertake such a 
> thing with a limited time frame like that ant ai have 35 years of computer 
> experience.  Also, you went in to it with the wrong mindset. I remember the 
> first posts you had set up for failure on day 1.  It’s like learning a 
> language, you can’t learn it word by word or just in dribs and drabs, the 
> only real way to learn is full emersion.  If I were learning French I’d head 
> to France and plop down in the middle of the country where i didn’t have a 
> choice.  Same with computing.  When you decide to learn a new operating 
> system you have to cut your self off from the old.  You have to build up all 
> new muscle memory for keyboard commands.  I’d say 10 to 1 you kept issuing 
> windows type keyboard commands on the Mac and introducing problems not for 
> anything you are doing wrong just because you’re new and have built up years 
> of muscle memory for commands in Windows.
> You also didn’t value learning the Mac.  You mentioned several times even in 
> your first post that you wouldn’t gain anything.  So in the end I’m not sure 
> why you bothered.  That’s like walking in to the job interview, telling your 
> self you’re not going to get the job anyway and then living up to your 
> expectations.:)  If you ever try this again with any platform don’t limit 
> yourself to an unreasonable amount of time.  Maybe try an operating system 
> like a Linux variant or something with is totally free out of the box, won’t 
> cause any financial pressure and you can dedicate to it with out other 
> distractions like worrying about the costs. No matter what, good job or 
> giving it a crack.  It’s good to push the boundaries and I’m glad you gave it 
> a shot.
> 
> P.S. Stay away from Costco.  They totally screwed that migration from Amex.  
> I canceled my membership because of the sloppy rollout.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 6, 2016, at 4:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt  wrote:
>> 
>> I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two 
>> weeks, concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after all 
>> yesterday, which was my last day to return it.  
>>  
>> To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just wasn't 
>> getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I would turn 
>> it on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things that I 
>> thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more 
>> frustrating than fun, being that I could very easily do those things in 
>> Windows, or on my iPhone.  And in the end, what was going to be the real 
>> benefit to me?  ITunes allegedly easier to use, and being able to install 
>> the OS myself.  
>>  
>> Being that yesterday was going to be my last day, I started out intend

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

[christopher hallsworth]

I would have gone for an iPod. It’s an iPhone, without the phone. So you can 
spend as little or as much time with it as necessary, without being tied to any 
sort of contract. This was my first ever iOS device, the iPod Touch 4th 
Generation, and about six months later I migrated to the iPhone 4. To date, I 
have an iPod Touch 6th Generation, iPhone 5s and iPad Mini 2. I have other 
Apple products, but these will be kept off the list for now. I would highly 
recommend anyone to start out with an iPod before trying an iPhone. Just my 
£0.02 worth and it worked like a charm for me.
> On 6 Jul 2016, at 16:00, Arnold Schmidt  wrote:
> 
> Apple is the one who imposed the deadline.  I called Apple Accessibility, and 
> the Apple main number, trying to get it extended, no luck.  
>  
> I'll bet we all know blind people who get an iPhone, and just don't seem to 
> get it.  They end up getting Searie to do everything for them, because they 
> just never seem to have caught on to using the touch screen.  By then, they 
> have their iPhone, like it or not, and would have to pay a big cancellation 
> fee to return it.  I just didn't want to have all this money invested in 
> something that I very well may, but may not have caught onto eventually.   By 
> no means did I expect to be fluent at it by yesterday, but I think I should 
> have been getting it, a little more than I was by the deadline. I am not 
> opposed to trying it again in the future.  It will have to be some kind of 
> cheaper alternative, though, until I feel confident that I am going to get 
> it.  I wish Apple had given me more time.  
>  
> Arnold Schmidt
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: Scott Granados
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 8:19 AM
>> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>> 
>> Arnold, you never stood a chance.  You can’t learn an operating system in 2 
>> weeks, thinking you could was unreasonable.  I wouldn’t even undertake such 
>> a thing with a limited time frame like that ant ai have 35 years of computer 
>> experience.  Also, you went in to it with the wrong mindset. I remember the 
>> first posts you had set up for failure on day 1.  It’s like learning a 
>> language, you can’t learn it word by word or just in dribs and drabs, the 
>> only real way to learn is full emersion.  If I were learning French I’d head 
>> to France and plop down in the middle of the country where i didn’t have a 
>> choice.  Same with computing.  When you decide to learn a new operating 
>> system you have to cut your self off from the old.  You have to build up all 
>> new muscle memory for keyboard commands.  I’d say 10 to 1 you kept issuing 
>> windows type keyboard commands on the Mac and introducing problems not for 
>> anything you are doing wrong just because you’re new and have built up years 
>> of muscle memory for commands in Windows. 
>> You also didn’t value learning the Mac.  You mentioned several times even in 
>> your first post that you wouldn’t gain anything.  So in the end I’m not sure 
>> why you bothered.  That’s like walking in to the job interview, telling your 
>> self you’re not going to get the job anyway and then living up to your 
>> expectations.:)  If you ever try this again with any platform don’t limit 
>> yourself to an unreasonable amount of time.  Maybe try an operating system 
>> like a Linux variant or something with is totally free out of the box, won’t 
>> cause any financial pressure and you can dedicate to it with out other
>> distractions like worrying about the costs. No matter what, good job or 
>> giving it a crack.  It’s good to push the boundaries and I’m glad you gave 
>> it a shot.
>> 
>> P.S. Stay away from Costco.  They totally screwed that migration from Amex.  
>> I canceled my membership because of the sloppy rollout.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 6, 2016, at 4:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two 
>>> weeks, concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after 
>>> all yesterday, which was my last day to return it.  
>>>  
>>> To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just wasn't 
>>> getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I would turn 
>>> it on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things that I 
>>> thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more 
>>> frustrating than fun, being that I could very easily do those things in 
>>> Windows, or on my iPhone.  And in the end, what was going to be the real 
>>> benefit to me?  ITunes allegedly easier to use, and being able to install 
>>> the OS myself.  
>>>  
>>> Being that yesterday was going to be my last day, I started out intending 
>>> to put in a lot of extra time with it, before the time for my paratransit 
>>> trip to return it arrived, which I still thought I was going to cancel.  
>>> So, I decided to log into my bank web site,

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

[Devin Prater]

Oh yes, I know people that use Siri all the time, Siri and dictation.
Sent from my Mac.

Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com



> On Jul 6, 2016, at 10:00 AM, Arnold Schmidt  wrote:
> 
> Apple is the one who imposed the deadline.  I called Apple Accessibility, and 
> the Apple main number, trying to get it extended, no luck.  
>  
> I'll bet we all know blind people who get an iPhone, and just don't seem to 
> get it.  They end up getting Searie to do everything for them, because they 
> just never seem to have caught on to using the touch screen.  By then, they 
> have their iPhone, like it or not, and would have to pay a big cancellation 
> fee to return it.  I just didn't want to have all this money invested in 
> something that I very well may, but may not have caught onto eventually.   By 
> no means did I expect to be fluent at it by yesterday, but I think I should 
> have been getting it, a little more than I was by the deadline. I am not 
> opposed to trying it again in the future.  It will have to be some kind of 
> cheaper alternative, though, until I feel confident that I am going to get 
> it.  I wish Apple had given me more time.  
>  
> Arnold Schmidt
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: Scott Granados 
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 8:19 AM
>> Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back
>> 
>> Arnold, you never stood a chance.  You can’t learn anoperating system in 
>> 2 weeks, thinking you could was unreasonable.  I wouldn’t even undertake 
>> such a thing with a limited time frame like that ant ai have 35 years of 
>> computer experience.  Also, you went in to it with the wrong mindset. I 
>> remember the first posts you had set up for failure on day 1.  It’s like 
>> learning a language, you can’t learn it word by word or just in dribs and 
>> drabs, the only real way to learn is full emersion.  If I were learning 
>> French I’d head to France and plop down in the middle of the country where i 
>> didn’t have a choice.  Same with computing.  When you decide to learn a new 
>> operating system you have to cut your self off from the old.  You have to 
>> build up all new muscle memory for keyboard commands.  I’d say 10 to 1 you 
>> kept issuing windows type keyboard commands on the Mac and introducing 
>> problems not for anything you are doing wrong just because you’re new and 
>> have built up years of muscle memory for commands in Windows. 
>> You also didn’t value learning the Mac.  You mentioned several times even in 
>> your first post that you wouldn’t gain anything.  So in the end I’m not sure 
>> why you bothered.  That’s like walking in to the job interview, telling your 
>> self you’re not going to get the job anyway and then living up to your 
>> expectations.:)  If you ever try this again with any platform don’t limit 
>> yourself to an unreasonable amount of time.  Maybe try an operating system 
>> like a Linux variant or something with is totally free out of the box, won’t 
>> cause any financial pressure and you can dedicate to it with out other 
>> distractions like worrying about the costs. No matter what, good job or 
>> giving it a crack.  It’s good to push the boundaries and I’m glad you gave 
>> it a shot.
>> 
>> P.S. Stay away from Costco.  They totally screwed that migration from Amex.  
>> I canceled my membership because of the sloppy rollout.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 6, 2016, at 4:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two 
>>> weeks, concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after 
>>> all yesterday, which was my last day to return it.  
>>>  
>>> To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just wasn't 
>>> getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I would turn 
>>> it on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things that I 
>>> thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more 
>>> frustrating than fun, being that I could very easily do those things in 
>>> Windows, or on my iPhone.  And in the end, what was going to be the real 
>>> benefit to me?  ITunes allegedly easier to use, and being able to install 
>>> the OS myself.  
>>>  
>>> Being that yesterday was going to be my last day, I started out intending 
>>> to put in a lot of extra time with it, before the time for my paratransit 
>>> trip to return it arrived, which I still thought I was going to cancel.  
>>> So, I decided to log into my bank web site, which I had not attempted yet.  
>>> I successfully passed the first step in the two-step verification, but 
>>> then, no matter what I tried, I couldn't get it to read the security 
>>> question it wanted answered.  No problem in Windows, or my iPhone, no go on 
>>> this Mac mini.  I could tell  the location for the answer field, I could 
>>> find what s

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

[Arnold Schmidt]

Apple is the one who imposed the deadline.  I called Apple Accessibility, and 
the Apple main number, trying to get it extended, no luck.  

I'll bet we all know blind people who get an iPhone, and just don't seem to get 
it.  They end up getting Searie to do everything for them, because they just 
never seem to have caught on to using the touch screen.  By then, they have 
their iPhone, like it or not, and would have to pay a big cancellation fee to 
return it.  I just didn't want to have all this money invested in something 
that I very well may, but may not have caught onto eventually.   By no means 
did I expect to be fluent at it by yesterday, but I think I should have been 
getting it, a little more than I was by the deadline. I am not opposed to 
trying it again in the future.  It will have to be some kind of cheaper 
alternative, though, until I feel confident that I am going to get it.  I wish 
Apple had given me more time.  

Arnold Schmidt
  - Original Message - 
  From: Scott Granados 
  To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 8:19 AM
  Subject: Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back


  Arnold, you never stood a chance.  You can’t learn an operating system in 2 
weeks, thinking you could was unreasonable.  I wouldn’t even undertake such a 
thing with a limited time frame like that ant ai have 35 years of computer 
experience.  Also, you went in to it with the wrong mindset. I remember the 
first posts you had set up for failure on day 1.  It’s like learning a 
language, you can’t learn it word by word or just in dribs and drabs, the only 
real way to learn is full emersion.  If I were learning French I’d head to 
France and plop down in the middle of the country where i didn’t have a choice. 
 Same with computing.  When you decide to learn a new operating system you have 
to cut your self off from the old.  You have to build up all new muscle memory 
for keyboard commands.  I’d say 10 to 1 you kept issuing windows type keyboard 
commands on the Mac and introducing problems not for anything you are doing 
wrong just because you’re new and have built up years of muscle memory for 
commands in Windows. 
  You also didn’t value learning the Mac.  You mentioned several times even in 
your first post that you wouldn’t gain anything.  So in the end I’m not sure 
why you bothered.  That’s like walking in to the job interview, telling your 
self you’re not going to get the job anyway and then living up to your 
expectations.:)  If you ever try this again with any platform don’t limit 
yourself to an unreasonable amount of time.  Maybe try an operating system like 
a Linux variant or something with is totally free out of the box, won’t cause 
any financial pressure and you can dedicate to it with out other distractions 
like worrying about the costs. No matter what, good job or giving it a crack.  
It’s good to push the boundaries and I’m glad you gave it a shot.


  P.S. Stay away from Costco.  They totally screwed that migration from Amex.  
I canceled my membership because of the sloppy rollout.






On Jul 6, 2016, at 4:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt  wrote:


I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two 
weeks, concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after all 
yesterday, which was my last day to return it.  

To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just wasn't 
getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I would turn it 
on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things that I 
thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more frustrating 
than fun, being that I could very easily do those things in Windows, or on my 
iPhone.  And in the end, what was going to be the real benefit to me?  ITunes 
allegedly easier to use, and being able to install the OS myself.  

Being that yesterday was going to be my last day, I started out intending 
to put in a lot of extra time with it, before the time for my paratransit trip 
to return it arrived, which I still thought I was going to cancel.  So, I 
decided to log into my bank web site, which I had not attempted yet.  I 
successfully passed the first step in the two-step verification, but then, no 
matter what I tried, I couldn't get it to read the security question it wanted 
answered.  No problem in Windows, or my iPhone, no go on this Mac mini.  I 
could tell  the location for the answer field, I could find what should have 
been the question field, it just wouldn't read anything.  I typed in the answer 
to one of my security questions, which, of course, was the wrong answer for the 
question it was asking.  I am sure the inability to get it to read the security 
question was mine, not the Mac Mini's .  So, I closed Safari, then decided to 
turn on keyboard help, just to try differing combinations of keys I had never 
tried before to see what it would say.  I was trying the function keys, and hit

Re: On a serious note Scott

[Arnold Schmidt]

I am curious:  Are you using your device with a monitor connected to it?  I 
don't know if this monitor has to be on, or not, it very well might have to 
be.   If you are, the rest of this answer does not apply.


Apparently, the mac needs to have a load connected to the HDMI port or it 
will give the symptom you described, VoiceOver saying busy.  I bought what I 
call a dummy load to connect to the HDMI port of my mac mini.  Go to amazon, 
and search the word compulab.  What you want apparently is used by those who 
use the mac mini as a server.  It goes for about $15.  In the brief time I 
had it, VoiceOver never said busy.


Arnold Schmidt
- Original Message - 
From: "Martin Brown" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2016 9:17 AM
Subject: On a serious note Scott



Hi Scott.
Thankfully I'm not as paranoid as my last post might suggest. Just having 
a

hard day with the Mail App. No matter what I want to do, I get a lot of
'busy busy' from good old Alex. Perhaps my system just needs a good old
clean install.

On a serious note, it is sad, if true, that those whom we put our trust in
let us down in such an appalling way. But as you say, there are a lot of
good people doing the best they can with the resources at their disposal.

I have no doubt that the upgrade to Narrator coming next month will not
include a talking installer. Perhaps someday it will. It is a long time
overdue. If there are those who are suppose to have our best interests at
heart, and through their greed have pushed that possibility further down 
the

road than it should be at this time, well shame on them.
Kind Regards:
Martin

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Re: 4th of July Coverage with Apple TV4?

[E.T.]

   Yep. Oh well and maybe I will watch that movie on Apple TV and amuse 
myself with the infecting of the mother alien ship's computer. 
Entertainment at its best.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 7/6/2016 5:34 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

Ah E.T. look at the source.  Nuff said!


On Jul 5, 2016, at 10:14 PM, E.T.  wrote:

  A good sense of humor is becoming a rare commodity these days. (smiles)

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 7/5/2016 6:45 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

Wut?

OK, first of all, your e-mail wasn't all that funny.  If anything, it
made entirely no sense.

Secondly, you wonder why we go so crazy on the 4th, well, considering
it's Independence Day.  The day that in 1776 we became independent, one
nation under god.  This is why we have such hife.  It's the celebration
of our country's independence, rememberring those who died to give us
freedom, etc.

As for PBS, that is a broadcasting network in the states that carried
live coverage from the Whitehouse of the yearly celebration.  They do so
every year.  This was the 36th anniversary of them doing so, and
covering the event.  PBS is the network that broadcasts the event.
PBS=Public Broadcasting System.

http://www.pbs.org

Over all though, if you were trying to be funny with your comments about
alians, just know, they really weren't amusing, no offense.
---
Christopher Gilland
JAWS Certified, 2016.
Training Instructor.

clgillan...@gmail.com 
Phone: (704) 256-8010.

   - Original Message -
   *From:* Simon Fogarty 
   *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
   
   *Sent:* Tuesday, July 05, 2016 6:34 AM
   *Subject:* RE: 4th of July Coverage with Apple TV4?

   Sorry folks, but I have to ask this,



   Chris  what is a PBS?



   I know you americans go crazy on july 4^th but really why?



   I thought the aliens just came back to get you a second time?



   Doesn’t Geoff Goldblume have to save you again with his super super
   fast power book and a simple virus  inserted in to the aliens space
   craft computer system?



   Oh and on their alien ships wifi network that can’t have been
   secured as they didn’t appear to put in the wifi password….



   Just saying that if that’s all it takes,



   Lol….



   *From:*macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
   [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of
   *Christopher-Mark Gilland
   *Sent:* Tuesday, 5 July 2016 11:27 AM
   *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
   *Subject:* 4th of July Coverage with Apple TV4?
   *Importance:* High



   At the top of the hour, 8:00PM Eastern, PBS is doing their yearly
   4th of July celebration.



   Does anyone know if I can watch if live with my Apple TV 4th gen?
   Yes, I do have the PBS app installed.  I just can't recall if the
   app let's you watch the network live, or not.



   If not, I'll just watch with my Time Warner, although it would be
   very very nice to watch in my studio on my 5.1 surround sound.



   Chris.

   ---
   Christopher Gilland
   JAWS Certified, 2016.
   Training Instructor.



   clgillan...@gmail.com 
   Phone: (704) 256-8010.

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Re: Abbyy Finereader Pro

[E.T.]

Terje,
   It will become easier the more I work with Abbyy. Bought a long time 
ago and now I am starting to use it.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
  Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 7/5/2016 9:24 PM, Terje Strømberg wrote:

Don’t think that is possible. If it is possibnle, i am also interested to know 
how. My scanner Canon DR-C225 opens Fine Reader Pro with a push of a button. 
Still i have to chose the convert format in Fine Reader.

Take care


5. jul. 2016 kl. 20.31 skrev E.T. :

  I have started looking at this app and would like some pointers.Main use I 
think will be to scan documents to a file, either MS Word or txt format.

  I did not see an option for this, is it possible to set a default document 
type?

From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 Are We Alone in the Universe?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

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<>

Re: Some questions about BlindSquare

[Mike Busboom]

This is helpful.  Thank you for taking the time to respond, Jessica.

Best,

Mike
> On 4,Jul,2016, at 14:51, Jessica Moss  wrote:
> 
> When running google/apple maps, you just tell blindsquare to launch either/or 
> when planning a route, and they will open automaticly.  As far as running 
> 4square in the background, you do have to have a 4square account.
>  I currently have one, which is launched by default within the app itself, 
> but for some off-the-wall reason, whenever I try this method within 
> blindsquare, it still wants me to log in, which is a major pain, sense I 
> haven’t physically logged in in ages, and only want to use that feature once 
> in a blue moon when I want to use the look around feature.
>> On Jul 4, 2016, at 8:12 AM, Mike Busboom  wrote:
>> 
>> Greetings,
>> 
>> On occasion, I use BlindSquare and really like it.  However, I am thinking 
>> that I could get more use from the app if I dug more thoroughly into 
>> understanding all of its features.  I have two questions that may have been 
>> answered in the manual, though I don’t remember seeing them addressed. Any 
>> help would be truly appreciated.
>> 
>> 1.  The BlindSquare manual says that you can use several different 
>> third-party apps in conjunction with BlindSquare.  I am wondering if these 
>> apps need to be running in the background, or does BlindSquare automatically 
>> grab information from them and present the info within a BlindSquare 
>> Dialogue box.  In other words, would I go into a settings menu somewhere and 
>> pick what third-party app BlindSquare would interrogate?  I really like 
>> Google Maps on my iPhone, and I’d like to use its capabilities with 
>> BlindSquare.  In all likelihood, I probably need to have Google Maps running 
>> simultaneously with BlindSquare, but I just want to make sure.
>> 
>> 2.  In order to take full advantage of the FourSquare features available in 
>> BlindSquare, do I need to register with FourSquare?
>> 
>> Thanks to all,
>> 
>> Mike
>> 
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On a serious note Scott

[Martin Brown]

Hi Scott.
Thankfully I'm not as paranoid as my last post might suggest. Just having a
hard day with the Mail App. No matter what I want to do, I get a lot of
'busy busy' from good old Alex. Perhaps my system just needs a good old
clean install.

On a serious note, it is sad, if true, that those whom we put our trust in
let us down in such an appalling way. But as you say, there are a lot of
good people doing the best they can with the resources at their disposal.

 I have no doubt that the upgrade to Narrator coming next month will not
include a talking installer. Perhaps someday it will. It is a long time
overdue. If there are those who are suppose to have our best interests at
heart, and through their greed have pushed that possibility further down the
road than it should be at this time, well shame on them.
Kind Regards:
Martin

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Re: vm and insert key?

[Sandi Jazmin Kruse]

i aint needing anything more than xp, i only need it for reads and
scanning, if i needed better, i would get it :)

On 7/6/16, Scott Granados  wrote:
> Ah it sounds like sharp keys.
>
> Don’t bother with XP, it’s outdated, try win 8 or win 10.
>
>
>> On Jul 6, 2016, at 3:27 AM, Sandi Jazmin Kruse 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi, i found a guide about it, here is what you do.
>> go to the from box, press the key left too your number 1 on your
>> keyboard, to go too the too box, press Vo-space, and a list comes up,
>> select the right key, and you are golden.
>> Amazing that little mac book can run windows xp, ss
>>
>> On 7/5/16, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> Just to be clear, are you using sharp keys to make this adjustment or
>>> how
>>> are you remapping in vmware?
>>>
>>>
 On Jul 5, 2016, at 11:30 AM, Sandi Jazmin Kruse 
 wrote:

 Hi. in short, what do you do in the too field under mapping of keys in
 vmware?
 i can get from field in cutely enough, but i seem to remember there is
 a list of keys in the too combo box, but when i interact with it ,
 nothing happens,


 Best Sandi, who is apparently it  seems  having a blonde moment
 despite black mane :)

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Re: 4th of July Coverage with Apple TV4?

[Scott Granados]

Ah E.T. look at the source.  Nuff said!

> On Jul 5, 2016, at 10:14 PM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
>   A good sense of humor is becoming a rare commodity these days. (smiles)
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>  Are We Alone in the Universe?
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 7/5/2016 6:45 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
>> Wut?
>> 
>> OK, first of all, your e-mail wasn't all that funny.  If anything, it
>> made entirely no sense.
>> 
>> Secondly, you wonder why we go so crazy on the 4th, well, considering
>> it's Independence Day.  The day that in 1776 we became independent, one
>> nation under god.  This is why we have such hife.  It's the celebration
>> of our country's independence, rememberring those who died to give us
>> freedom, etc.
>> 
>> As for PBS, that is a broadcasting network in the states that carried
>> live coverage from the Whitehouse of the yearly celebration.  They do so
>> every year.  This was the 36th anniversary of them doing so, and
>> covering the event.  PBS is the network that broadcasts the event.
>> PBS=Public Broadcasting System.
>> 
>> http://www.pbs.org
>> 
>> Over all though, if you were trying to be funny with your comments about
>> alians, just know, they really weren't amusing, no offense.
>> ---
>> Christopher Gilland
>> JAWS Certified, 2016.
>> Training Instructor.
>> 
>> clgillan...@gmail.com 
>> Phone: (704) 256-8010.
>> 
>>- Original Message -
>>*From:* Simon Fogarty 
>>*To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>
>>*Sent:* Tuesday, July 05, 2016 6:34 AM
>>*Subject:* RE: 4th of July Coverage with Apple TV4?
>> 
>>Sorry folks, but I have to ask this,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>Chris  what is a PBS?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>I know you americans go crazy on july 4^th but really why?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>I thought the aliens just came back to get you a second time?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>Doesn’t Geoff Goldblume have to save you again with his super super
>>fast power book and a simple virus  inserted in to the aliens space
>>craft computer system?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>Oh and on their alien ships wifi network that can’t have been
>>secured as they didn’t appear to put in the wifi password….
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>Just saying that if that’s all it takes,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>Lol….
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>*From:*macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of
>>*Christopher-Mark Gilland
>>*Sent:* Tuesday, 5 July 2016 11:27 AM
>>*To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>*Subject:* 4th of July Coverage with Apple TV4?
>>*Importance:* High
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>At the top of the hour, 8:00PM Eastern, PBS is doing their yearly
>>4th of July celebration.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>Does anyone know if I can watch if live with my Apple TV 4th gen?
>>Yes, I do have the PBS app installed.  I just can't recall if the
>>app let's you watch the network live, or not.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>If not, I'll just watch with my Time Warner, although it would be
>>very very nice to watch in my studio on my 5.1 surround sound.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>Chris.
>> 
>>---
>>Christopher Gilland
>>JAWS Certified, 2016.
>>Training Instructor.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>clgillan...@gmail.com 
>>Phone: (704) 256-8010.
>> 
>>--
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Re: vm and insert key?

[Scott Granados]

Ah it sounds like sharp keys.

Don’t bother with XP, it’s outdated, try win 8 or win 10.


> On Jul 6, 2016, at 3:27 AM, Sandi Jazmin Kruse  wrote:
> 
> Hi, i found a guide about it, here is what you do.
> go to the from box, press the key left too your number 1 on your
> keyboard, to go too the too box, press Vo-space, and a list comes up,
> select the right key, and you are golden.
> Amazing that little mac book can run windows xp, ss
> 
> On 7/5/16, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> Just to be clear, are you using sharp keys to make this adjustment or how
>> are you remapping in vmware?
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 5, 2016, at 11:30 AM, Sandi Jazmin Kruse 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi. in short, what do you do in the too field under mapping of keys in
>>> vmware?
>>> i can get from field in cutely enough, but i seem to remember there is
>>> a list of keys in the too combo box, but when i interact with it ,
>>> nothing happens,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best Sandi, who is apparently it  seems  having a blonde moment
>>> despite black mane :)
>>> 
>>> --
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Visit this grou

Re: Interesting Points Scott

[Scott Granados]

Martin, I’m not sure if you’re going for effect but no, I don’t share your 
paranoia entirely.  Skepticism is good and correctly applied in this case but 
blanket statements are also suboptimal.  Plenty of organizations do the right 
thing.  Most people are good most people want to see the best outcome.  Other 
than government I think most people have your best interest at heart and even 
in government the average cog in the machine wants only the best it’s just a 
few at the top who forgets who signs their check as they say.

Bringing this squarely back on topic, Apple in this case did the right thing by 
including a screen reader that’s got access to the whole life cycle and ignored 
the hit pieces.  That’s a good thing.
Someone else mentioned, I think Kevin Chow that the new narrator 
upgrade won’t be as comprehensive as voice over having some nice upgrades but 
no access to installation or restore.  That’s to bad, I hope though Microsoft 
continues the development and gets us there.

This idea of adding accessibility features is catching on I think.  Apple has a 
lot to be thanked for.  Look at even Amazon including accessibility features 
now in their Fire TV.  I like seeing this trend, I hope it continues with new 
platforms.

> On Jul 6, 2016, at 7:01 AM, Martin Brown  wrote:
> 
> As the subject line indicates Scott, a very interesting perspective on what
> might well take place behind closed doors. Indeed, this is something I have
> heard before from another source. Although it is difficult to believe, I
> would rule nothing out when it comes to money and what it can buy.
> 
> As far as I am aware, please correct me if wrong, but isn't the NFB the
> National Federation of the Blind. One would think that they would be on our
> side in such a matter. However, if what you are saying is true, then they
> have been guilty of giving us blindies a right good shafting up the holistic
> synthesiser so to speak.
> 
> I wonder is there any organisation in the world that corruption isn't the
> norm anymore. I suppose not if one looks at politics the world over, and the
> way Politicians   are bought by the big multi nationals to pass laws
> favourable to their own interests.
> 
> We live in a world that is awash with information, and the technology to
> gain instant access to that information. The problem is, how much is true
> and how much is a steaming pile of brown stuff that evokes the gag response.
> 
> I have sometimes thought that organizations for the disabled, in this case
> the blind, are little more than a resource to be farmed in as profitable a
> way as possible by sighted entrepreneurs. OK Microsoft and others, you are
> off the hook for the time being, but don't forget I am keeping my good half
> eye on all your dealings with this very profitable resource of humans.
> 
> Finally, I do not want the folks on this list to think I am in anyway
> paranoid. Please believe me when I say that there are a bunch of
> well-dressed individuals who lurk around at the bottom of my garden just
> waiting for the chance to have me. Thank goodness for Google's search
> engine. The ability to have a quick look up at what a shifty bunch of
> buggers are doing at the bottom of one's garden is very comforting.
> Kind Regards:
> Martin
> 
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Re: System Volume

[Scott Granados]

there’s a few other ways to go.

First, you can go to system preferences, select sound and the volume can be set 
there, also, there’s a check box which says show volume control in settings 
menus or something similar to that.  Check this box then when you press vo m 
twice along with WiFi, time machine and the other settings items you will now 
see volume control.  You can enter this menu and also adjust the volume here.

Hope that helps.

Also remember there’s a mute key right next to the volume so make sure you 
haven’t mashed that button on accident.

Good luck

> On Jul 6, 2016, at 8:18 AM, Saqib Hussain  wrote:
> 
> Hi. How do I turn the system volume up as I have tried F12 on a full size 
> Apple wired keyboard and it doesn’t work and I’ve also tried holding down the 
> FN key and still no luck.
> 
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Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

[Scott Granados]

Arnold, you never stood a chance.  You can’t learn an operating system in 2 
weeks, thinking you could was unreasonable.  I wouldn’t even undertake such a 
thing with a limited time frame like that ant ai have 35 years of computer 
experience.  Also, you went in to it with the wrong mindset. I remember the 
first posts you had set up for failure on day 1.  It’s like learning a 
language, you can’t learn it word by word or just in dribs and drabs, the only 
real way to learn is full emersion.  If I were learning French I’d head to 
France and plop down in the middle of the country where i didn’t have a choice. 
 Same with computing.  When you decide to learn a new operating system you have 
to cut your self off from the old.  You have to build up all new muscle memory 
for keyboard commands.  I’d say 10 to 1 you kept issuing windows type keyboard 
commands on the Mac and introducing problems not for anything you are doing 
wrong just because you’re new and have built up years of muscle memory for 
commands in Windows.
You also didn’t value learning the Mac.  You mentioned several times 
even in your first post that you wouldn’t gain anything.  So in the end I’m not 
sure why you bothered.  That’s like walking in to the job interview, telling 
your self you’re not going to get the job anyway and then living up to your 
expectations.:)  If you ever try this again with any platform don’t limit 
yourself to an unreasonable amount of time.  Maybe try an operating system like 
a Linux variant or something with is totally free out of the box, won’t cause 
any financial pressure and you can dedicate to it with out other distractions 
like worrying about the costs. No matter what, good job or giving it a crack.  
It’s good to push the boundaries and I’m glad you gave it a shot.

P.S. Stay away from Costco.  They totally screwed that migration from Amex.  I 
canceled my membership because of the sloppy rollout.



> On Jul 6, 2016, at 4:50 AM, Arnold Schmidt  wrote:
> 
> I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two 
> weeks, concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after all 
> yesterday, which was my last day to return it.
> 
> To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just wasn't 
> getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I would turn it 
> on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things that I 
> thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more frustrating 
> than fun, being that I could very easily do those things in Windows, or on my 
> iPhone.  And in the end, what was going to be the real benefit to me?  ITunes 
> allegedly easier to use, and being able to install the OS myself.
> 
> Being that yesterday was going to be my last day, I started out intending to 
> put in a lot of extra time with it, before the time for my paratransit trip 
> to return it arrived, which I still thought I was going to cancel.  So, I 
> decided to log into my bank web site, which I had not attempted yet.  I 
> successfully passed the first step in the two-step verification, but then, no 
> matter what I tried, I couldn't get it to read the security question it 
> wanted answered.  No problem in Windows, or my iPhone, no go on this Mac 
> mini.  I could tell  the location for the answer field, I could find what 
> should have been the question field, it just wouldn't read anything.  I typed 
> in the answer to one of my security questions, which, of course, was the 
> wrong answer for the question it was asking.  I am sure the inability to get 
> it to read the security question was mine, not the Mac Mini's .  So, I closed 
> Safari, then decided to turn on keyboard help, just to try differing 
> combinations of keys I had never tried before to see what it would say.  I 
> was trying the function keys, and hit a key at the very right end of them, 
> and it just shut off.  Nothing I did would get VoiceOver talking again.  I 
> tried the three-finger triple tap on the track pad,then the three-finger 
> double tap which is what it is on my iPhone,  turned the track pad commander 
> off and on, turned the whole computer off and back on, nothing.  And this was 
> my last day.
> 
> I wish I had had 30 days.  If I had had, I still don't think it would have 
> gone back.  But I didn't want to be one of those people who never quite got 
> it, but it was too late to take it back, and I had over 900 dollars invested 
> in the thing.  Even though it would have put me lower in my checking account 
> than I wanted to be, I should have kept the Windows 10 Lenovo I bought from 
> Costco, and the Mac Mini, too, knowing one of them was going back.  I bought 
> the Lenovo first, after having talked myself out of buying a Mac, again.  
> Sometime before Microsoft stops supporting Vista next spring, there will be 
> another good deal come through Costco.
> 
> I always had wanted to try a Mac, I am glad I did.  But it ended 

System Volume

[Saqib Hussain]

Hi. How do I turn the system volume up as I have tried F12 on a full size Apple 
wired keyboard and it doesn’t work and I’ve also tried holding down the FN key 
and still no luck. 

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Re: Disappointed with Voiceover

[Scott Granados]

Right now the public betas are El Capitan updates.  Apple will almost certainly 
release a final release of El Capitan and then sometime in September we’ll see 
the next revision.  I know in the public beta of IOS improvements in call 
routing are under way and smashing of other bugs, I’d assume we’ll see similar 
in the next release as well as the introduction of new bugs.:)  That’s the way 
that goes.

> On Jul 6, 2016, at 6:06 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
> 
> Yep, I think they basically gave us El Cap with a few new voices and such, 
> but maybe when the public beta hits, they’ll pull out all the stops.
> Sent from my Mac.
> 
> Devin Prater
> d.pra...@me.com 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 5, 2016, at 5:48 PM, John Panarese > > wrote:
>> 
>>Exactly. So they exist now. Now and October are a long way off.
>> 
>> 
>> Take Care
>> 
>> John D. Panarese
>> Director
>> Mac for the Blind
>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com 
>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com 
>> 
>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
>> 
>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>> 
>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 5, 2016, at 6:06 PM, E.T. >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>>   This is why we ought not to discuss beta software. Sierra is a couple 
>>> away from release and what bugs may exist now may not end up in the final 
>>> release.
>>> 
>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>>  Are We Alone in the Universe?
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>>> 
>>> On 7/5/2016 3:01 PM, Kevin Chao wrote:
 Breakages in El Capitan exist in Sierra
 On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 1:32 PM matthew dyer
 mailto:ilovecountrymusic...@gmail.com> 
 >>
 wrote:
 
Hi all.
 
 
I have been using moos since lepord and rite now in elcapiton the only
problem I have is with how mail works with gmail.  I find that mail just
doesn't sync with gmail as well.  Any one know they best way to handle
gmail with the mail app?  Should the all mail be hidon or not in gmail
settings.  I find that for sone reason that gmail syncing just doesn't
keep up with the way I delete mail in the mail app,.
 
 
Thanks.
 
 
Matthew
 
 
 
 
On 07/05/2016 11:15 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:
> hi Saqib,
>
> What exactly is happening when your Mail is freezing up.  Keyboard
not responsive?  Mail saying "busy, busy" all the time?  Focus
lost?  I'm not experiencing any Mail issues, so am attempting to
assist.  Really, there's no issues bug-wise with Mail as far as I'm
aware, so this may be some other issue related to VO, Mail settings,
Account settings etc.
>
> Later...
>
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>
> On Jul 5, 2016, at 06:47, Saqib Hussain >>> 
>> wrote:
>
> Hi Martain. I’m beginning to agree with you! My keyboard always
freezes up in the mail client and I’m surprised that I’m replying to
this message without another major freeze. After talking to Apple
support and resetting the machine 3 times! My only option is to go
out and buy an ethernet cable and do a full re-install of the OS. Oh
do I regret getting a Mac.
>> On 4 Jul 2016, at 13:13, Martin Brown >>> 
>> 
 wrote:
>>
>> My first encounter with Voiceover was back in the Snow Leopard
days, and boy
>> was I impressed with the level of commitment by Apple to its
screen reader.
>> It was back then I was enthusiastic about learning as much as I
could about
>> this very different way of accessing a computer. It was quite a
struggle
>> having come from the Windows environment, but I persevered and
most of what
>> I know about interacting with my Mac goes back to those days.
Sadly, I feel
>> it has been down hill as far as building upon what made Voiceover
a great
>> solution to help a blind person do what needs to be done to get
the most and
>> the best out of their Mac.
>>
>> In the past few years I only drop in occasionally to see if
things are
>> getting better with what used to be a great product only to find
that things
>> are no better, and sometimes even worse. We are now some nine
months into
>> the release of El Capit

Interesting Points Scott

[Martin Brown]

As the subject line indicates Scott, a very interesting perspective on what
might well take place behind closed doors. Indeed, this is something I have
heard before from another source. Although it is difficult to believe, I
would rule nothing out when it comes to money and what it can buy. 

As far as I am aware, please correct me if wrong, but isn't the NFB the
National Federation of the Blind. One would think that they would be on our
side in such a matter. However, if what you are saying is true, then they
have been guilty of giving us blindies a right good shafting up the holistic
synthesiser so to speak.

I wonder is there any organisation in the world that corruption isn't the
norm anymore. I suppose not if one looks at politics the world over, and the
way Politicians   are bought by the big multi nationals to pass laws
favourable to their own interests.

We live in a world that is awash with information, and the technology to
gain instant access to that information. The problem is, how much is true
and how much is a steaming pile of brown stuff that evokes the gag response.

I have sometimes thought that organizations for the disabled, in this case
the blind, are little more than a resource to be farmed in as profitable a
way as possible by sighted entrepreneurs. OK Microsoft and others, you are
off the hook for the time being, but don't forget I am keeping my good half
eye on all your dealings with this very profitable resource of humans.

Finally, I do not want the folks on this list to think I am in anyway
paranoid. Please believe me when I say that there are a bunch of
well-dressed individuals who lurk around at the bottom of my garden just
waiting for the chance to have me. Thank goodness for Google's search
engine. The ability to have a quick look up at what a shifty bunch of
buggers are doing at the bottom of one's garden is very comforting.  
Kind Regards:
Martin

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Re: Playing "The Golden Wombat of Destiny" on a Mac

[Craig Werner]

Thanks, Sabahattin, for your reply.  I am not emulating Windows on my Mac,
and since I have a Windows machine, perhaps I will try the Golden Wombat
there.  Playing a game is not high enough on my priorities list to make it
work on the Mac, but it's good to know the functionality may be there.

Craig


On Thursday, June 30, 2016, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:

> Certainly you can play text adventures on a Mac, but for various reasons I
> still do so in Windows.  The game you mentioned is unknown to me.
>
> Which games did you have in mind?  How much trouble are you willing to put
> in to this?  And have you got a Windows VM?
>
> The audyssey list and audiogames.net are a great pair of resources to
> answer many of your gaming questions.
>
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Re: Disappointed with Voiceover

[Devin Prater]

Yep, I think they basically gave us El Cap with a few new voices and such, but 
maybe when the public beta hits, they’ll pull out all the stops.
Sent from my Mac.

Devin Prater
d.pra...@me.com



> On Jul 5, 2016, at 5:48 PM, John Panarese  wrote:
> 
>Exactly. So they exist now. Now and October are a long way off.
> 
> 
> Take Care
> 
> John D. Panarese
> Director
> Mac for the Blind
> Tel, (631) 724-4479
> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com 
> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com 
> 
> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL and Trainer
> 
> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
> 
> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jul 5, 2016, at 6:06 PM, E.T. > > wrote:
>> 
>>   This is why we ought not to discuss beta software. Sierra is a couple away 
>> from release and what bugs may exist now may not end up in the final release.
>> 
>> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
>>  Are We Alone in the Universe?
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>> 
>> On 7/5/2016 3:01 PM, Kevin Chao wrote:
>>> Breakages in El Capitan exist in Sierra
>>> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 1:32 PM matthew dyer
>>> mailto:ilovecountrymusic...@gmail.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>Hi all.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>I have been using moos since lepord and rite now in elcapiton the only
>>>problem I have is with how mail works with gmail.  I find that mail just
>>>doesn't sync with gmail as well.  Any one know they best way to handle
>>>gmail with the mail app?  Should the all mail be hidon or not in gmail
>>>settings.  I find that for sone reason that gmail syncing just doesn't
>>>keep up with the way I delete mail in the mail app,.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>Thanks.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>Matthew
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>On 07/05/2016 11:15 AM, Tim Kilburn wrote:
>>>> hi Saqib,
>>>>
>>>> What exactly is happening when your Mail is freezing up.  Keyboard
>>>not responsive?  Mail saying "busy, busy" all the time?  Focus
>>>lost?  I'm not experiencing any Mail issues, so am attempting to
>>>assist.  Really, there's no issues bug-wise with Mail as far as I'm
>>>aware, so this may be some other issue related to VO, Mail settings,
>>>Account settings etc.
>>>>
>>>> Later...
>>>>
>>>> Tim Kilburn
>>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 5, 2016, at 06:47, Saqib Hussain >>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Martain. I’m beginning to agree with you! My keyboard always
>>>freezes up in the mail client and I’m surprised that I’m replying to
>>>this message without another major freeze. After talking to Apple
>>>support and resetting the machine 3 times! My only option is to go
>>>out and buy an ethernet cable and do a full re-install of the OS. Oh
>>>do I regret getting a Mac.
>>>>> On 4 Jul 2016, at 13:13, Martin Brown >>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> My first encounter with Voiceover was back in the Snow Leopard
>>>days, and boy
>>>>> was I impressed with the level of commitment by Apple to its
>>>screen reader.
>>>>> It was back then I was enthusiastic about learning as much as I
>>>could about
>>>>> this very different way of accessing a computer. It was quite a
>>>struggle
>>>>> having come from the Windows environment, but I persevered and
>>>most of what
>>>>> I know about interacting with my Mac goes back to those days.
>>>Sadly, I feel
>>>>> it has been down hill as far as building upon what made Voiceover
>>>a great
>>>>> solution to help a blind person do what needs to be done to get
>>>the most and
>>>>> the best out of their Mac.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the past few years I only drop in occasionally to see if
>>>things are
>>>>> getting better with what used to be a great product only to find
>>>that things
>>>>> are no better, and sometimes even worse. We are now some nine
>>>months into
>>>>> the release of El Capitan, and still there are bugs that should
>>>have been
>>>>> sorted before the software was even out the door. I am not one of
>>>those
>>>>> people who expect everything to always work perfectly from day
>>>one. Nor do I
>>>>> expect that sometimes one has to think outside the box when
>>>working with
>>>>> energised silicone chips, but when doing basic tasks such as
>>>deleting a web
>>>>> site from favourites, the task should be simple and take seconds
>>>to perform.
>>>>> Oh boy, not on this Mac.
>>>>>
>>>>> And then there's Safari. When it works it's good, but when it
>>>doesn't it
>>>>> would drive a Zen master towards the Prozac shelf. On some sites
>>>its fine,
>>>>> on others it's rickety, while on others it quite simply refuses
>>>to work. An
>>>>> example of the latter is the Soap Ki

Re: My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

[Alex Hall]

At least you tried it. As you said, though, two weeks may not have been long 
enough. I had my First Mac for almost a year, during which I tried it off and 
on while mostly using Windows. A screen reader problem in Windows made me 
switch to the Mac full-time, and that's what finally did it. I came to that 
experience knowing the basic commands and how things work, and even then, it 
took more than two weeks to start to get comfortable. Some people may be able 
to pick up anew OS in less time, but I'm not one of them. :)

If you ever want to try again, I'd suggest getting the lowest-cost Mac you can, 
maybe a low-end used Mini. That way, it's far less than $900, and you can keep 
it as long as you need it.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 6, 2016, at 04:50, Arnold Schmidt  wrote:
> 
> I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two 
> weeks, concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after all 
> yesterday, which was my last day to return it. 
>  
> To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just wasn't 
> getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I would turn it 
> on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things that I 
> thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more frustrating 
> than fun, being that I could very easily do those things in Windows, or on my 
> iPhone.  And in the end, what was going to be the real benefit to me?  ITunes 
> allegedly easier to use, and being able to install the OS myself. 
>  
> Being that yesterday was going to be my last day, I started out intending to 
> put in a lot of extra time with it, before the time for my paratransit trip 
> to return it arrived, which I still thought I was going to cancel.  So, I 
> decided to log into my bank web site, which I had not attempted yet.  I 
> successfully passed the first step in the two-step verification, but then, no 
> matter what I tried, I couldn't get it to read the security question it 
> wanted answered.  No problem in Windows, or my iPhone, no go on this Mac 
> mini.  I could tell  the location for the answer field, I could find what 
> should have been the question field, it just wouldn't read anything.  I typed 
> in the answer to one of my security questions, which, of course, was the 
> wrong answer for the question it was asking.  I am sure the inability to get 
> it to read the security question was mine, not the Mac Mini's .  So, I closed 
> Safari, then decided to turn on keyboard help, just to try differing 
> combinations of keys I had never tried before to see what it would say.  I 
> was trying the function keys, and hit a key at the very right end of them, 
> and it just shut off.  Nothing I did would get VoiceOver talking again.  I 
> tried the three-finger triple tap on the track pad,then the three-finger 
> double tap which is what it is on my iPhone,  turned the track pad commander 
> off and on, turned the whole computer off and back on, nothing.  And this was 
> my last day.
>  
> I wish I had had 30 days.  If I had had, I still don't think it would have 
> gone back.  But I didn't want to be one of those people who never quite got 
> it, but it was too late to take it back, and I had over 900 dollars invested 
> in the thing.  Even though it would have put me lower in my checking account 
> than I wanted to be, I should have kept the Windows 10 Lenovo I bought from 
> Costco, and the Mac Mini, too, knowing one of them was going back.  I bought 
> the Lenovo first, after having talked myself out of buying a Mac, again.  
> Sometime before Microsoft stops supporting Vista next spring, there will be 
> another good deal come through Costco.
>  
> I always had wanted to try a Mac, I am glad I did.  But it ended up being so 
> much tedium and frustration to me, as compared to what I already know, with 
> not all that much seeming benefit in the end. I fully expected not to know 
> what I was doing for a while, but I thought it would have begun to get easier 
> by yesterday, which, I guess, it wasn't, even with the two books I have. 
>  
> Arnold Schmidt  
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My Time Ran Out, I Took It Back

[Arnold Schmidt]

I wand to thank everyone for the help I have received over the past two weeks, 
concerning my Mac Mini.  However, I ended up taking it back after all 
yesterday, which was my last day to return it.  

To attempt to make a long message not quite so long, I guess I just wasn't 
getting it as much as I think I should have been.  Every time I would turn it 
on, it seemed that I still was having to look up how to do things that I 
thought I had already learned, and it definitely was getting more frustrating 
than fun, being that I could very easily do those things in Windows, or on my 
iPhone.  And in the end, what was going to be the real benefit to me?  ITunes 
allegedly easier to use, and being able to install the OS myself.  

Being that yesterday was going to be my last day, I started out intending to 
put in a lot of extra time with it, before the time for my paratransit trip to 
return it arrived, which I still thought I was going to cancel.  So, I decided 
to log into my bank web site, which I had not attempted yet.  I successfully 
passed the first step in the two-step verification, but then, no matter what I 
tried, I couldn't get it to read the security question it wanted answered.  No 
problem in Windows, or my iPhone, no go on this Mac mini.  I could tell  the 
location for the answer field, I could find what should have been the question 
field, it just wouldn't read anything.  I typed in the answer to one of my 
security questions, which, of course, was the wrong answer for the question it 
was asking.  I am sure the inability to get it to read the security question 
was mine, not the Mac Mini's .  So, I closed Safari, then decided to turn on 
keyboard help, just to try differing combinations of keys I had never tried 
before to see what it would say.  I was trying the function keys, and hit a key 
at the very right end of them, and it just shut off.  Nothing I did would get 
VoiceOver talking again.  I tried the three-finger triple tap on the track 
pad,then the three-finger double tap which is what it is on my iPhone,  turned 
the track pad commander off and on, turned the whole computer off and back on, 
nothing.  And this was my last day.

I wish I had had 30 days.  If I had had, I still don't think it would have gone 
back.  But I didn't want to be one of those people who never quite got it, but 
it was too late to take it back, and I had over 900 dollars invested in the 
thing.  Even though it would have put me lower in my checking account than I 
wanted to be, I should have kept the Windows 10 Lenovo I bought from Costco, 
and the Mac Mini, too, knowing one of them was going back.  I bought the Lenovo 
first, after having talked myself out of buying a Mac, again.  Sometime before 
Microsoft stops supporting Vista next spring, there will be another good deal 
come through Costco.

I always had wanted to try a Mac, I am glad I did.  But it ended up being so 
much tedium and frustration to me, as compared to what I already know, with not 
all that much seeming benefit in the end. I fully expected not to know what I 
was doing for a while, but I thought it would have begun to get easier by 
yesterday, which, I guess, it wasn't, even with the two books I have.  

Arnold Schmidt  

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Re: vm and insert key?

[Sandi Jazmin Kruse]

Hi, i found a guide about it, here is what you do.
go to the from box, press the key left too your number 1 on your
keyboard, to go too the too box, press Vo-space, and a list comes up,
select the right key, and you are golden.
Amazing that little mac book can run windows xp, ss

On 7/5/16, Scott Granados  wrote:
> Just to be clear, are you using sharp keys to make this adjustment or how
> are you remapping in vmware?
>
>
>> On Jul 5, 2016, at 11:30 AM, Sandi Jazmin Kruse 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi. in short, what do you do in the too field under mapping of keys in
>> vmware?
>> i can get from field in cutely enough, but i seem to remember there is
>> a list of keys in the too combo box, but when i interact with it ,
>> nothing happens,
>>
>>
>> Best Sandi, who is apparently it  seems  having a blonde moment
>> despite black mane :)
>>
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