Re: iPhone honored by NFB
Hi, Yes, same here. He knew a little about VoiceOver, but they didn't provide training if you required it. In fact, he didn't know how to turn it on, so I was glad I read through the entire VoiceOver manual before making the trip. Regards, Nic On Oct 3, 2009, at 4:16 PM, Rich Ring wrote: > My local Apple store doesn't even know that Voiceover exists, well > now they do, because I explained it to them. > - Original Message - > From: Chris Hofstader > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 6:46 AM > Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > My thoughts exactly. I think the people who read AT reviews fall > into two categories: people who work for AT companies/departments > and people already using AT who are not likely to switch but enjoy > keeping up with the technology conversations. > > Most purchasing decisions happen almost entirely apart from the > users of AT who rarely are even asked for input. > > An odd phenomena though, is the growth of VO and people who seem new > to computing or new to participating in discussions about such. > Whenever a new person joins any of the three Apple related lists to > which I subscribe, I make certain of taking notice of their name. > Some are people I've known for years from lots of different lists. > A whole lot, maybe even most, seem new to technology lists (I doubt > too many are entirely new to computing as finding a list, getting > signed up, etc. isn't obvious to the novice). > > I know that Apple stores are offering VO training because (I'm > guessing) the local Lighthouse or other agencies aren't serving the > Mac market. > > I'm working on a very large proposal for a really huge project that > includes a lot of questions about populations and numbers of users > on different AT with a variety of different disabilities. The only > information I can get about Mac users with vision impairment comes > from surveys which have the self selection problem (a lot of people > do not fill out surveys) which may over or under-estimate > MacinBlinks as we've no scientificly gathered data. Lighthouse and > other training centers don't count Macintosh users as they do not > train them so, as far as that class of NGO goes, we do not really > exist. > > As millions of Macs have shipped since the first VO, we've no clue > how many blinks are using them, how they are being used, etc. > > I would estimate, though, from my entirely unscientific survey of > names on mailing lists that Mac is hitting a previously unserved > population and doing so well enough for the users to spend time on > lists helping each other out. > > I do not, however, know how many people are on these lists - the > JAWS list has over 900 users last I looked and the Apple oriented > seem to have a lot fewer. Of course, pointing back to the top of > the message, if Mac is being used by tons of real novices, then we > have no way to get a census of VO use. > > Ah... tangled webs and the like... > > cdh > > To wit: > > cdh > On Oct 2, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Chris Blouch wrote: > >> Apple has played the 'let the best technology win in the long run' >> game for a while. Maybe that's why they have about 5% market share. >> Most people don't care and just get what their network recommend. >> So those already leaning towards Apple will cite antagonism and >> those leaning away will consider it affirmation. Neither will move >> much based on one review. >> >> CB >> >> Cameron wrote: >>> >>> Hi. It's depressing to think about the potential number of people >>> who after >>> reading that awful so called review, will not end up giving the >>> mac platform >>> a shot. With all the work apple has done, and continues to do in >>> terms of >>> out of the box accessibility, this is quite unfair. >>> >>> Cameron. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rich Ring >>> Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 7:06 AM >>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >>> >>> >>> I agree, but political entities, whether they are governments, >>> political >>> parties, or the NFB don't tend to admit to their mistakes. >>> Unfortunate, but >>> true. >>> - Original Message - >>> From
Re: iPhone honored by NFB
My local Apple store doesn't even know that Voiceover exists, well now they do, because I explained it to them. - Original Message - From: Chris Hofstader To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2009 6:46 AM Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB My thoughts exactly. I think the people who read AT reviews fall into two categories: people who work for AT companies/departments and people already using AT who are not likely to switch but enjoy keeping up with the technology conversations. Most purchasing decisions happen almost entirely apart from the users of AT who rarely are even asked for input. An odd phenomena though, is the growth of VO and people who seem new to computing or new to participating in discussions about such. Whenever a new person joins any of the three Apple related lists to which I subscribe, I make certain of taking notice of their name. Some are people I've known for years from lots of different lists. A whole lot, maybe even most, seem new to technology lists (I doubt too many are entirely new to computing as finding a list, getting signed up, etc. isn't obvious to the novice). I know that Apple stores are offering VO training because (I'm guessing) the local Lighthouse or other agencies aren't serving the Mac market. I'm working on a very large proposal for a really huge project that includes a lot of questions about populations and numbers of users on different AT with a variety of different disabilities. The only information I can get about Mac users with vision impairment comes from surveys which have the self selection problem (a lot of people do not fill out surveys) which may over or under-estimate MacinBlinks as we've no scientificly gathered data. Lighthouse and other training centers don't count Macintosh users as they do not train them so, as far as that class of NGO goes, we do not really exist. As millions of Macs have shipped since the first VO, we've no clue how many blinks are using them, how they are being used, etc. I would estimate, though, from my entirely unscientific survey of names on mailing lists that Mac is hitting a previously unserved population and doing so well enough for the users to spend time on lists helping each other out. I do not, however, know how many people are on these lists - the JAWS list has over 900 users last I looked and the Apple oriented seem to have a lot fewer. Of course, pointing back to the top of the message, if Mac is being used by tons of real novices, then we have no way to get a census of VO use. Ah... tangled webs and the like... cdh To wit: cdh On Oct 2, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Chris Blouch wrote: Apple has played the 'let the best technology win in the long run' game for a while. Maybe that's why they have about 5% market share. Most people don't care and just get what their network recommend. So those already leaning towards Apple will cite antagonism and those leaning away will consider it affirmation. Neither will move much based on one review. CB Cameron wrote: Hi. It's depressing to think about the potential number of people who after reading that awful so called review, will not end up giving the mac platform a shot. With all the work apple has done, and continues to do in terms of out of the box accessibility, this is quite unfair. Cameron. -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rich Ring Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 7:06 AM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB I agree, but political entities, whether they are governments, political parties, or the NFB don't tend to admit to their mistakes. Unfortunate, but true. - Original Message - From: "kaare dehard" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:54 PM Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB I think your right rich, however, their attempt to do this is rather sad since it would be easier to just admit that they are human like the rest of us, that an error was made, and then not repeat this. That certainly would have gone some ways to repairing damaged credibility. On 2009-09-30, at 7:14 PM, Rich Ring wrote: I believe that what you're seeing here is that they're trying to make up for the grave error they made with the Mac without in fact quite admitting they were wrong. You have to read between the lines a bit, but this is what I firmly believe. - Original Message ----- From: "ben mustill-rose" To: Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:34 PM Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB I do find it rather funny that they slammed a program that ran on a device with a full sized qwerty keyboard yet there all over the iphone with its touch screen. O well - step in the right dire
Re: iPhone honored by NFB
even asked for input. > > An odd phenomena though, is the growth of VO and people who seem new > to computing or new to participating in discussions about such. > Whenever a new person joins any of the three Apple related lists to > which I subscribe, I make certain of taking notice of their name. > Some are people I've known for years from lots of different lists. > A whole lot, maybe even most, seem new to technology lists (I doubt > too many are entirely new to computing as finding a list, getting > signed up, etc. isn't obvious to the novice). > > I know that Apple stores are offering VO training because (I'm > guessing) the local Lighthouse or other agencies aren't serving the > Mac market. > > I'm working on a very large proposal for a really huge project that > includes a lot of questions about populations and numbers of users > on different AT with a variety of different disabilities. The only > information I can get about Mac users with vision impairment comes > from surveys which have the self selection problem (a lot of people > do not fill out surveys) which may over or under-estimate > MacinBlinks as we've no scientificly gathered data. Lighthouse and > other training centers don't count Macintosh users as they do not > train them so, as far as that class of NGO goes, we do not really > exist. > > As millions of Macs have shipped since the first VO, we've no clue > how many blinks are using them, how they are being used, etc. > > I would estimate, though, from my entirely unscientific survey of > names on mailing lists that Mac is hitting a previously unserved > population and doing so well enough for the users to spend time on > lists helping each other out. > > I do not, however, know how many people are on these lists - the > JAWS list has over 900 users last I looked and the Apple oriented > seem to have a lot fewer. Of course, pointing back to the top of > the message, if Mac is being used by tons of real novices, then we > have no way to get a census of VO use. > > Ah... tangled webs and the like... > > cdh > > To wit: > > cdh > On Oct 2, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Chris Blouch wrote: > >> Apple has played the 'let the best technology win in the long run' >> game for a while. Maybe that's why they have about 5% market share. >> Most people don't care and just get what their network recommend. >> So those already leaning towards Apple will cite antagonism and >> those leaning away will consider it affirmation. Neither will move >> much based on one review. >> >> CB >> >> Cameron wrote: >>> >>> Hi. It's depressing to think about the potential number of people >>> who after >>> reading that awful so called review, will not end up giving the >>> mac platform >>> a shot. With all the work apple has done, and continues to do in >>> terms of >>> out of the box accessibility, this is quite unfair. >>> >>> Cameron. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rich Ring >>> Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 7:06 AM >>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >>> >>> >>> I agree, but political entities, whether they are governments, >>> political >>> parties, or the NFB don't tend to admit to their mistakes. >>> Unfortunate, but >>> true. >>> - Original Message - >>> From: "kaare dehard" >>> To: >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:54 PM >>> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >>> >>> >>> >>> I think your right rich, however, their attempt to do this is rather >>> sad since it would be easier to just admit that they are human like >>> the rest of us, that an error was made, and then not repeat this. >>> That >>> certainly would have gone some ways to repairing damaged >>> credibility. >>> On 2009-09-30, at 7:14 PM, Rich Ring wrote: >>> >>> >>>> I believe that what you're seeing here is that they're trying to >>>> make up for >>>> the grave error they made with the Mac without in fact quite >>>> admitting they >>>> were wrong. You have to read between the lines a bit, but this is >>>> what I >>>> firmly believe. >>
Re: iPhone honored by NFB
My thoughts exactly. I think the people who read AT reviews fall into two categories: people who work for AT companies/departments and people already using AT who are not likely to switch but enjoy keeping up with the technology conversations. Most purchasing decisions happen almost entirely apart from the users of AT who rarely are even asked for input. An odd phenomena though, is the growth of VO and people who seem new to computing or new to participating in discussions about such. Whenever a new person joins any of the three Apple related lists to which I subscribe, I make certain of taking notice of their name. Some are people I've known for years from lots of different lists. A whole lot, maybe even most, seem new to technology lists (I doubt too many are entirely new to computing as finding a list, getting signed up, etc. isn't obvious to the novice). I know that Apple stores are offering VO training because (I'm guessing) the local Lighthouse or other agencies aren't serving the Mac market. I'm working on a very large proposal for a really huge project that includes a lot of questions about populations and numbers of users on different AT with a variety of different disabilities. The only information I can get about Mac users with vision impairment comes from surveys which have the self selection problem (a lot of people do not fill out surveys) which may over or under-estimate MacinBlinks as we've no scientificly gathered data. Lighthouse and other training centers don't count Macintosh users as they do not train them so, as far as that class of NGO goes, we do not really exist. As millions of Macs have shipped since the first VO, we've no clue how many blinks are using them, how they are being used, etc. I would estimate, though, from my entirely unscientific survey of names on mailing lists that Mac is hitting a previously unserved population and doing so well enough for the users to spend time on lists helping each other out. I do not, however, know how many people are on these lists - the JAWS list has over 900 users last I looked and the Apple oriented seem to have a lot fewer. Of course, pointing back to the top of the message, if Mac is being used by tons of real novices, then we have no way to get a census of VO use. Ah... tangled webs and the like... cdh To wit: cdh On Oct 2, 2009, at 5:56 PM, Chris Blouch wrote: > Apple has played the 'let the best technology win in the long run' > game for a while. Maybe that's why they have about 5% market share. > Most people don't care and just get what their network recommend. So > those already leaning towards Apple will cite antagonism and those > leaning away will consider it affirmation. Neither will move much > based on one review. > > CB > > Cameron wrote: >> >> Hi. It's depressing to think about the potential number of people >> who after >> reading that awful so called review, will not end up giving the mac >> platform >> a shot. With all the work apple has done, and continues to do in >> terms of >> out of the box accessibility, this is quite unfair. >> >> Cameron. >> >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rich Ring >> Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 7:06 AM >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> >> I agree, but political entities, whether they are governments, >> political >> parties, or the NFB don't tend to admit to their mistakes. >> Unfortunate, but >> true. >> - Original Message - >> From: "kaare dehard" >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:54 PM >> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> >> >> I think your right rich, however, their attempt to do this is rather >> sad since it would be easier to just admit that they are human like >> the rest of us, that an error was made, and then not repeat this. >> That >> certainly would have gone some ways to repairing damaged credibility. >> On 2009-09-30, at 7:14 PM, Rich Ring wrote: >> >> >>> I believe that what you're seeing here is that they're trying to >>> make up for >>> the grave error they made with the Mac without in fact quite >>> admitting they >>> were wrong. You have to read between the lines a bit, but this is >>> what I >>> firmly believe. >>> - Original Message - >>> From: "ben mustill-rose" >>> To: >>> Sent: Friday, September
Re: iPhone honored by NFB
Apple has played the 'let the best technology win in the long run' game for a while. Maybe that's why they have about 5% market share. Most people don't care and just get what their network recommend. So those already leaning towards Apple will cite antagonism and those leaning away will consider it affirmation. Neither will move much based on one review. CB Cameron wrote: > Hi. It's depressing to think about the potential number of people who after > reading that awful so called review, will not end up giving the mac platform > a shot. With all the work apple has done, and continues to do in terms of > out of the box accessibility, this is quite unfair. > > Cameron. > > > > > -Original Message- > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rich Ring > Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 7:06 AM > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > > I agree, but political entities, whether they are governments, political > parties, or the NFB don't tend to admit to their mistakes. Unfortunate, but > true. > - Original Message ----- > From: "kaare dehard" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:54 PM > Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > > > I think your right rich, however, their attempt to do this is rather > sad since it would be easier to just admit that they are human like > the rest of us, that an error was made, and then not repeat this. That > certainly would have gone some ways to repairing damaged credibility. > On 2009-09-30, at 7:14 PM, Rich Ring wrote: > > >> I believe that what you're seeing here is that they're trying to >> make up for >> the grave error they made with the Mac without in fact quite >> admitting they >> were wrong. You have to read between the lines a bit, but this is >> what I >> firmly believe. >> - Original Message - >> From: "ben mustill-rose" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:34 PM >> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> >> >> I do find it rather funny that they slammed a program that ran on a >> device with a full sized qwerty keyboard yet there all over the iphone >> with its touch screen. >> >> O well - step in the right direction anyway. >> >> On 26/09/2009, Kevin Gibbs wrote: >> >>> You have to ask the sighted friend to turn it on in preferences, I >>> think. >>> K. >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Philippe >>> Rykiel >>> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:30 PM >>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >>> >>> >>> Dear Chris, >>> a friend of mine has one of these. Can you simply tell me how to >>> turn v o >>> on >>> and off on his device so I can give it a try. >>> Cheers, >>> JPR >>> http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel >>> >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> >>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:05 AM >>> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >>> >>> It's called voiceover and as something that makes a device >>> accessible via >>> speech and controls, it is voiceover, but with a different voice (not >>> Alex) >>> and a phone-specific set of gestures instead of keyboard controls. >>> That >>> said, it's included on every iPhone 3GS and the newer iPod Touch. >>> Previous >>> models didn't have the hardware performance to run this so there is >>> no >>> upgrade to get VO on the older devices. >>> >>> CB >>> >>> Jean-Philippe Rykiel wrote: >>> >>> Sorry for a very down-to-earth question, but does the IPhone come >>> with V O >>> as well? >>> JPR >>> http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel >>> >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> >>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:48 PM >>> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >>> >>> >>> Some have difficulty comprehending what is new and, by definition, >>> not >>> well understood.
RE: iPhone honored by NFB
Hi. It's depressing to think about the potential number of people who after reading that awful so called review, will not end up giving the mac platform a shot. With all the work apple has done, and continues to do in terms of out of the box accessibility, this is quite unfair. Cameron. -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rich Ring Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 7:06 AM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB I agree, but political entities, whether they are governments, political parties, or the NFB don't tend to admit to their mistakes. Unfortunate, but true. - Original Message - From: "kaare dehard" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:54 PM Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB I think your right rich, however, their attempt to do this is rather sad since it would be easier to just admit that they are human like the rest of us, that an error was made, and then not repeat this. That certainly would have gone some ways to repairing damaged credibility. On 2009-09-30, at 7:14 PM, Rich Ring wrote: > > I believe that what you're seeing here is that they're trying to > make up for > the grave error they made with the Mac without in fact quite > admitting they > were wrong. You have to read between the lines a bit, but this is > what I > firmly believe. > - Original Message - > From: "ben mustill-rose" > To: > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:34 PM > Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > > > I do find it rather funny that they slammed a program that ran on a > device with a full sized qwerty keyboard yet there all over the iphone > with its touch screen. > > O well - step in the right direction anyway. > > On 26/09/2009, Kevin Gibbs wrote: >> You have to ask the sighted friend to turn it on in preferences, I >> think. >> K. >> >> -Original Message- >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Philippe >> Rykiel >> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:30 PM >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> >> Dear Chris, >> a friend of mine has one of these. Can you simply tell me how to >> turn v o >> on >> and off on his device so I can give it a try. >> Cheers, >> JPR >> http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:05 AM >> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> It's called voiceover and as something that makes a device >> accessible via >> speech and controls, it is voiceover, but with a different voice (not >> Alex) >> and a phone-specific set of gestures instead of keyboard controls. >> That >> said, it's included on every iPhone 3GS and the newer iPod Touch. >> Previous >> models didn't have the hardware performance to run this so there is >> no >> upgrade to get VO on the older devices. >> >> CB >> >> Jean-Philippe Rykiel wrote: >> >> Sorry for a very down-to-earth question, but does the IPhone come >> with V O >> as well? >> JPR >> http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:48 PM >> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> >> Some have difficulty comprehending what is new and, by definition, >> not >> well understood. So they define the new in terms of what's known from >> the past, but when something is a revolution rather than an evolution >> the comparisons fail. Some will lodge those failures as the fault of >> what was being measured and dismiss it as being flawed. Others, more >> rarely, will correctly realize that the measurement framework has >> failed >> and reevaluate their worldview. The NFB has been measuring sharks >> for a >> long while and Apple brought in an leopard. It will take time for the >> definition of 'good' to be redefined. >> >> CB >> >> william lomas wrote: >>> they can soon praise the iPhone yet slam the mac? >>> hyppocrits >>> >>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> > > > -- > Kind regards, BEN. > > email: bmustillr...@gmail.com > msn: benmustillr...@hotmail.com > web: http://www.bmr.me.uk (under construction) > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: iPhone honored by NFB
Corporate slander is virtually impossible to prove in a US court. Also, can anyone imagine the Wall Street Journal headline, "Apple Sues Blind Advocacy Organization Over Poor Review?" I can already feel Apple PR people choking on their morning coffee as they read this example on this mailing list let alone seeing it in WSJ or New York Times. The editorial bias will be: "Apple Corp (AAPL), the Silicon Valley based multi-billion dollar corporation has set its notoriously ruthless legal team loose on America's largest advocacy group for people with vision impairment. Long time NFB technology leader, Curtis Chong said, "We call them as we see them and unlike some other advocacy organizations whom I won't name here, we don't sugar coat reviews of products we find to be lacking. We do not want our members to accidentally purchase an inferior product because we gave it what appeared to be a positive nod when we didn't believe it to be true." Sandy Beaches, a spokesperson for Apple, said, "I've a Glock 9 mm pointed at my temple and I promise I'll pull the trigger if our legal team doesn't back off the nice people at NFB who have just given us a really terrific award for our efforts on the iPhone. I mean it, I'll blow my head off live on YouTube if our guys don't back off," said the distraught PR professional." On Sep 30, 2009, at 7:24 PM, Frank Ventura wrote: > > Actually, Apple should have sued the NFB for slander and loss of > revenue. Now wouldn't that be poetic justice. > Frank > > -Original Message- > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cameron > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 6:19 PM > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: iPhone honored by NFB > > > Hi. yes, that poorly researched and non objective so called review of > voiceover should have been formally retracted, along with an apology, > but, > that did not, and probably will not, come to pass. > > Unfortunately. > > Cameron. > > > > > -Original Message- > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rich Ring > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:15 PM > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > > I believe that what you're seeing here is that they're trying to > make up > for > > the grave error they made with the Mac without in fact quite admitting > they > were wrong. You have to read between the lines a bit, but this is > what > I > firmly believe. > - Original Message - > From: "ben mustill-rose" > To: > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:34 PM > Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > > > I do find it rather funny that they slammed a program that ran on a > device with a full sized qwerty keyboard yet there all over the iphone > with its touch screen. > > O well - step in the right direction anyway. > > On 26/09/2009, Kevin Gibbs wrote: >> You have to ask the sighted friend to turn it on in preferences, I > think. >> K. >> >> -Original Message- >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Philippe > Rykiel >> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:30 PM >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> >> Dear Chris, >> a friend of mine has one of these. Can you simply tell me how to turn > v o >> on >> and off on his device so I can give it a try. >> Cheers, >> JPR >> http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:05 AM >> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> It's called voiceover and as something that makes a device accessible > via >> speech and controls, it is voiceover, but with a different voice (not >> Alex) >> and a phone-specific set of gestures instead of keyboard controls. > That >> said, it's included on every iPhone 3GS and the newer iPod Touch. > Previous >> models didn't have the hardware performance to run this so there is >> no >> upgrade to get VO on the older devices. >> >> CB >> >> Jean-Philippe Rykiel wrote: >> >> Sorry for a very down-to-earth question, but does the IPhone come >> with > V O >> as well? >> JPR >> http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel &
Re: iPhone honored by NFB
As far as I have been able to discern over the years, NFB doesn't play games like making up for a poor review by turning around and giving out a good one. I do not always agree with NFB positions but I do feel that they are consistent and intellectually honest when they comment on a technology. cdh On Sep 30, 2009, at 7:14 PM, Rich Ring wrote: > > I believe that what you're seeing here is that they're trying to > make up for > the grave error they made with the Mac without in fact quite > admitting they > were wrong. You have to read between the lines a bit, but this is > what I > firmly believe. > - Original Message - > From: "ben mustill-rose" > To: > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:34 PM > Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > > > I do find it rather funny that they slammed a program that ran on a > device with a full sized qwerty keyboard yet there all over the iphone > with its touch screen. > > O well - step in the right direction anyway. > > On 26/09/2009, Kevin Gibbs wrote: >> You have to ask the sighted friend to turn it on in preferences, I >> think. >> K. >> >> -Original Message- >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Philippe >> Rykiel >> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:30 PM >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> >> Dear Chris, >> a friend of mine has one of these. Can you simply tell me how to >> turn v o >> on >> and off on his device so I can give it a try. >> Cheers, >> JPR >> http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:05 AM >> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> It's called voiceover and as something that makes a device >> accessible via >> speech and controls, it is voiceover, but with a different voice (not >> Alex) >> and a phone-specific set of gestures instead of keyboard controls. >> That >> said, it's included on every iPhone 3GS and the newer iPod Touch. >> Previous >> models didn't have the hardware performance to run this so there is >> no >> upgrade to get VO on the older devices. >> >> CB >> >> Jean-Philippe Rykiel wrote: >> >> Sorry for a very down-to-earth question, but does the IPhone come >> with V O >> as well? >> JPR >> http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:48 PM >> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> >> Some have difficulty comprehending what is new and, by definition, >> not >> well understood. So they define the new in terms of what's known from >> the past, but when something is a revolution rather than an evolution >> the comparisons fail. Some will lodge those failures as the fault of >> what was being measured and dismiss it as being flawed. Others, more >> rarely, will correctly realize that the measurement framework has >> failed >> and reevaluate their worldview. The NFB has been measuring sharks >> for a >> long while and Apple brought in an leopard. It will take time for the >> definition of 'good' to be redefined. >> >> CB >> >> william lomas wrote: >>> they can soon praise the iPhone yet slam the mac? >>> hyppocrits >>> >>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> > > > -- > Kind regards, BEN. > > email: bmustillr...@gmail.com > msn: benmustillr...@hotmail.com > web: http://www.bmr.me.uk (under construction) > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: iPhone honored by NFB
I agree, but political entities, whether they are governments, political parties, or the NFB don't tend to admit to their mistakes. Unfortunate, but true. - Original Message - From: "kaare dehard" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:54 PM Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB I think your right rich, however, their attempt to do this is rather sad since it would be easier to just admit that they are human like the rest of us, that an error was made, and then not repeat this. That certainly would have gone some ways to repairing damaged credibility. On 2009-09-30, at 7:14 PM, Rich Ring wrote: > > I believe that what you're seeing here is that they're trying to > make up for > the grave error they made with the Mac without in fact quite > admitting they > were wrong. You have to read between the lines a bit, but this is > what I > firmly believe. > - Original Message - > From: "ben mustill-rose" > To: > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:34 PM > Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > > > I do find it rather funny that they slammed a program that ran on a > device with a full sized qwerty keyboard yet there all over the iphone > with its touch screen. > > O well - step in the right direction anyway. > > On 26/09/2009, Kevin Gibbs wrote: >> You have to ask the sighted friend to turn it on in preferences, I >> think. >> K. >> >> -Original Message- >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Philippe >> Rykiel >> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:30 PM >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> >> Dear Chris, >> a friend of mine has one of these. Can you simply tell me how to >> turn v o >> on >> and off on his device so I can give it a try. >> Cheers, >> JPR >> http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:05 AM >> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> It's called voiceover and as something that makes a device >> accessible via >> speech and controls, it is voiceover, but with a different voice (not >> Alex) >> and a phone-specific set of gestures instead of keyboard controls. >> That >> said, it's included on every iPhone 3GS and the newer iPod Touch. >> Previous >> models didn't have the hardware performance to run this so there is >> no >> upgrade to get VO on the older devices. >> >> CB >> >> Jean-Philippe Rykiel wrote: >> >> Sorry for a very down-to-earth question, but does the IPhone come >> with V O >> as well? >> JPR >> http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:48 PM >> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> >> Some have difficulty comprehending what is new and, by definition, >> not >> well understood. So they define the new in terms of what's known from >> the past, but when something is a revolution rather than an evolution >> the comparisons fail. Some will lodge those failures as the fault of >> what was being measured and dismiss it as being flawed. Others, more >> rarely, will correctly realize that the measurement framework has >> failed >> and reevaluate their worldview. The NFB has been measuring sharks >> for a >> long while and Apple brought in an leopard. It will take time for the >> definition of 'good' to be redefined. >> >> CB >> >> william lomas wrote: >>> they can soon praise the iPhone yet slam the mac? >>> hyppocrits >>> >>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> > > > -- > Kind regards, BEN. > > email: bmustillr...@gmail.com > msn: benmustillr...@hotmail.com > web: http://www.bmr.me.uk (under construction) > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: iPhone honored by NFB
lol On Sep 30, 2009, at 9:10 PM, Maurice Mines wrote: > > stop it this this a tech list not a politcel one. using the del key. > On Sep 30, 2009, at 5:24 PM, Frank Ventura wrote: > >> >> Actually, Apple should have sued the NFB for slander and loss of >> revenue. Now wouldn't that be poetic justice. >> Frank >> >> -Original Message- >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cameron >> Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 6:19 PM >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Subject: RE: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> >> Hi. yes, that poorly researched and non objective so called review >> of >> voiceover should have been formally retracted, along with an apology, >> but, >> that did not, and probably will not, come to pass. >> >> Unfortunetly. >> >> Cameron. >> >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rich Ring >> Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:15 PM >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> >> I believe that what you're seeing here is that they're trying to >> make up >> for >> >> the grave error they made with the Mac without in fact quite >> admitting >> they >> were wrong. You have to read between the lines a bit, but this is >> what >> I >> firmly believe. >> - Original Message - >> From: "ben mustill-rose" >> To: >> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:34 PM >> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> >> >> I do find it rather funny that they slammed a program that ran on a >> device with a full sized qwerty keyboard yet there all over the >> iphone >> with its touch screen. >> >> O well - step in the right direction anyway. >> >> On 26/09/2009, Kevin Gibbs wrote: >>> You have to ask the sighted friend to turn it on in preferences, I >> think. >>> K. >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Philippe >> Rykiel >>> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:30 PM >>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >>> >>> >>> Dear Chris, >>> a friend of mine has one of these. Can you simply tell me how to >>> turn >> v o >>> on >>> and off on his device so I can give it a try. >>> Cheers, >>> JPR >>> http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel >>> >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> >>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:05 AM >>> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >>> >>> It's called voiceover and as something that makes a device >>> accessible >> via >>> speech and controls, it is voiceover, but with a different voice >>> (not >>> Alex) >>> and a phone-specific set of gestures instead of keyboard controls. >> That >>> said, it's included on every iPhone 3GS and the newer iPod Touch. >> Previous >>> models didn't have the hardware performance to run this so there is >>> no >>> upgrade to get VO on the older devices. >>> >>> CB >>> >>> Jean-Philippe Rykiel wrote: >>> >>> Sorry for a very down-to-earth question, but does the IPhone come >>> with >> V O >>> as well? >>> JPR >>> http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel >>> >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> >>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:48 PM >>> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >>> >>> >>> Some have difficulty comprehending what is new and, by definition, >>> not >>> well understood. So they define the new in terms of what's known >>> from >>> the past, but when something is a revolution rather than an >>> evolution >>> the comparisons fail. Some will lodge those failures as the fault of >>> what was being measured and dismiss it as being flawed. Others, more >>> rarely, will correctly realize that the measurement framework has >> failed >>> and reevaluate their worldview. The NFB has been measuring sharks >>> for >> a >>> long while and Apple brought in an leopard. It will take time for >>> the >>> definition of 'good' to be redefined. >>> >>> CB >>> >>> william lomas wrote: >>>> they can soon praise the iPhone yet slam the mac? >>>> hyppocrits >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kind regards, BEN. >> >> email: bmustillr...@gmail.com >> msn: benmustillr...@hotmail.com >> web: http://www.bmr.me.uk (under construction) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: iPhone honored by NFB
stop it this this a tech list not a politcel one. using the del key. On Sep 30, 2009, at 5:24 PM, Frank Ventura wrote: > > Actually, Apple should have sued the NFB for slander and loss of > revenue. Now wouldn't that be poetic justice. > Frank > > -Original Message- > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cameron > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 6:19 PM > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: iPhone honored by NFB > > > Hi. yes, that poorly researched and non objective so called review of > voiceover should have been formally retracted, along with an apology, > but, > that did not, and probably will not, come to pass. > > Unfortunetly. > > Cameron. > > > > > -Original Message- > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rich Ring > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:15 PM > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > > I believe that what you're seeing here is that they're trying to > make up > for > > the grave error they made with the Mac without in fact quite admitting > they > were wrong. You have to read between the lines a bit, but this is > what > I > firmly believe. > - Original Message - > From: "ben mustill-rose" > To: > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:34 PM > Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > > > I do find it rather funny that they slammed a program that ran on a > device with a full sized qwerty keyboard yet there all over the iphone > with its touch screen. > > O well - step in the right direction anyway. > > On 26/09/2009, Kevin Gibbs wrote: >> You have to ask the sighted friend to turn it on in preferences, I > think. >> K. >> >> -Original Message- >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Philippe > Rykiel >> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:30 PM >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> >> Dear Chris, >> a friend of mine has one of these. Can you simply tell me how to turn > v o >> on >> and off on his device so I can give it a try. >> Cheers, >> JPR >> http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:05 AM >> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> It's called voiceover and as something that makes a device accessible > via >> speech and controls, it is voiceover, but with a different voice (not >> Alex) >> and a phone-specific set of gestures instead of keyboard controls. > That >> said, it's included on every iPhone 3GS and the newer iPod Touch. > Previous >> models didn't have the hardware performance to run this so there is >> no >> upgrade to get VO on the older devices. >> >> CB >> >> Jean-Philippe Rykiel wrote: >> >> Sorry for a very down-to-earth question, but does the IPhone come >> with > V O >> as well? >> JPR >> http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:48 PM >> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> >> Some have difficulty comprehending what is new and, by definition, >> not >> well understood. So they define the new in terms of what's known from >> the past, but when something is a revolution rather than an evolution >> the comparisons fail. Some will lodge those failures as the fault of >> what was being measured and dismiss it as being flawed. Others, more >> rarely, will correctly realize that the measurement framework has > failed >> and reevaluate their worldview. The NFB has been measuring sharks for > a >> long while and Apple brought in an leopard. It will take time for the >> definition of 'good' to be redefined. >> >> CB >> >> william lomas wrote: >>> they can soon praise the iPhone yet slam the mac? >>> hyppocrits >>> >>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> > > > -- > Kind regards, BEN. > > email: bmustillr...@gmail.com > msn: benmustillr...@hotmail.com > web: http://www.bmr.me.uk (under construction) > > > > > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: iPhone honored by NFB
I think your right rich, however, their attempt to do this is rather sad since it would be easier to just admit that they are human like the rest of us, that an error was made, and then not repeat this. That certainly would have gone some ways to repairing damaged credibility. On 2009-09-30, at 7:14 PM, Rich Ring wrote: > > I believe that what you're seeing here is that they're trying to > make up for > the grave error they made with the Mac without in fact quite > admitting they > were wrong. You have to read between the lines a bit, but this is > what I > firmly believe. > - Original Message - > From: "ben mustill-rose" > To: > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:34 PM > Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > > > I do find it rather funny that they slammed a program that ran on a > device with a full sized qwerty keyboard yet there all over the iphone > with its touch screen. > > O well - step in the right direction anyway. > > On 26/09/2009, Kevin Gibbs wrote: >> You have to ask the sighted friend to turn it on in preferences, I >> think. >> K. >> >> -Original Message- >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Philippe >> Rykiel >> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:30 PM >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> >> Dear Chris, >> a friend of mine has one of these. Can you simply tell me how to >> turn v o >> on >> and off on his device so I can give it a try. >> Cheers, >> JPR >> http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:05 AM >> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> It's called voiceover and as something that makes a device >> accessible via >> speech and controls, it is voiceover, but with a different voice (not >> Alex) >> and a phone-specific set of gestures instead of keyboard controls. >> That >> said, it's included on every iPhone 3GS and the newer iPod Touch. >> Previous >> models didn't have the hardware performance to run this so there is >> no >> upgrade to get VO on the older devices. >> >> CB >> >> Jean-Philippe Rykiel wrote: >> >> Sorry for a very down-to-earth question, but does the IPhone come >> with V O >> as well? >> JPR >> http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:48 PM >> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> >> Some have difficulty comprehending what is new and, by definition, >> not >> well understood. So they define the new in terms of what's known from >> the past, but when something is a revolution rather than an evolution >> the comparisons fail. Some will lodge those failures as the fault of >> what was being measured and dismiss it as being flawed. Others, more >> rarely, will correctly realize that the measurement framework has >> failed >> and reevaluate their worldview. The NFB has been measuring sharks >> for a >> long while and Apple brought in an leopard. It will take time for the >> definition of 'good' to be redefined. >> >> CB >> >> william lomas wrote: >>> they can soon praise the iPhone yet slam the mac? >>> hyppocrits >>> >>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> > > > -- > Kind regards, BEN. > > email: bmustillr...@gmail.com > msn: benmustillr...@hotmail.com > web: http://www.bmr.me.uk (under construction) > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: iPhone honored by NFB
omg that would have been funny!!! On Sep 30, 2009, at 4:24 PM, Frank Ventura wrote: > > Actually, Apple should have sued the NFB for slander and loss of > revenue. Now wouldn't that be poetic justice. > Frank > > -Original Message- > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cameron > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 6:19 PM > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: iPhone honored by NFB > > > Hi. yes, that poorly researched and non objective so called review of > voiceover should have been formally retracted, along with an apology, > but, > that did not, and probably will not, come to pass. > > Unfortunetly. > > Cameron. > > > > > -Original Message- > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rich Ring > Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:15 PM > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > > I believe that what you're seeing here is that they're trying to > make up > for > > the grave error they made with the Mac without in fact quite admitting > they > were wrong. You have to read between the lines a bit, but this is > what > I > firmly believe. > - Original Message - > From: "ben mustill-rose" > To: > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:34 PM > Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > > > I do find it rather funny that they slammed a program that ran on a > device with a full sized qwerty keyboard yet there all over the iphone > with its touch screen. > > O well - step in the right direction anyway. > > On 26/09/2009, Kevin Gibbs wrote: >> You have to ask the sighted friend to turn it on in preferences, I > think. >> K. >> >> -Original Message- >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Philippe > Rykiel >> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:30 PM >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> >> Dear Chris, >> a friend of mine has one of these. Can you simply tell me how to turn > v o >> on >> and off on his device so I can give it a try. >> Cheers, >> JPR >> http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:05 AM >> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> It's called voiceover and as something that makes a device accessible > via >> speech and controls, it is voiceover, but with a different voice (not >> Alex) >> and a phone-specific set of gestures instead of keyboard controls. > That >> said, it's included on every iPhone 3GS and the newer iPod Touch. > Previous >> models didn't have the hardware performance to run this so there is >> no >> upgrade to get VO on the older devices. >> >> CB >> >> Jean-Philippe Rykiel wrote: >> >> Sorry for a very down-to-earth question, but does the IPhone come >> with > V O >> as well? >> JPR >> http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:48 PM >> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> >> Some have difficulty comprehending what is new and, by definition, >> not >> well understood. So they define the new in terms of what's known from >> the past, but when something is a revolution rather than an evolution >> the comparisons fail. Some will lodge those failures as the fault of >> what was being measured and dismiss it as being flawed. Others, more >> rarely, will correctly realize that the measurement framework has > failed >> and reevaluate their worldview. The NFB has been measuring sharks for > a >> long while and Apple brought in an leopard. It will take time for the >> definition of 'good' to be redefined. >> >> CB >> >> william lomas wrote: >>> they can soon praise the iPhone yet slam the mac? >>> hyppocrits >>> >>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> > > > -- > Kind regards, BEN. > > email: bmustillr...@gmail.com > msn: benmustillr...@hotmail.com > web: http://www.bmr.me.uk (under construction) > > > > > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
RE: iPhone honored by NFB
Actually, Apple should have sued the NFB for slander and loss of revenue. Now wouldn't that be poetic justice. Frank -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cameron Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 6:19 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: iPhone honored by NFB Hi. yes, that poorly researched and non objective so called review of voiceover should have been formally retracted, along with an apology, but, that did not, and probably will not, come to pass. Unfortunetly. Cameron. -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rich Ring Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:15 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB I believe that what you're seeing here is that they're trying to make up for the grave error they made with the Mac without in fact quite admitting they were wrong. You have to read between the lines a bit, but this is what I firmly believe. - Original Message - From: "ben mustill-rose" To: Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:34 PM Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB I do find it rather funny that they slammed a program that ran on a device with a full sized qwerty keyboard yet there all over the iphone with its touch screen. O well - step in the right direction anyway. On 26/09/2009, Kevin Gibbs wrote: > You have to ask the sighted friend to turn it on in preferences, I think. > K. > > -Original Message- > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Philippe Rykiel > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:30 PM > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > > Dear Chris, > a friend of mine has one of these. Can you simply tell me how to turn v o > on > and off on his device so I can give it a try. > Cheers, > JPR > http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel > > > - Original Message - > From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:05 AM > Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > It's called voiceover and as something that makes a device accessible via > speech and controls, it is voiceover, but with a different voice (not > Alex) > and a phone-specific set of gestures instead of keyboard controls. That > said, it's included on every iPhone 3GS and the newer iPod Touch. Previous > models didn't have the hardware performance to run this so there is no > upgrade to get VO on the older devices. > > CB > > Jean-Philippe Rykiel wrote: > > Sorry for a very down-to-earth question, but does the IPhone come with V O > as well? > JPR > http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel > > > - Original Message - > From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:48 PM > Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > > Some have difficulty comprehending what is new and, by definition, not > well understood. So they define the new in terms of what's known from > the past, but when something is a revolution rather than an evolution > the comparisons fail. Some will lodge those failures as the fault of > what was being measured and dismiss it as being flawed. Others, more > rarely, will correctly realize that the measurement framework has failed > and reevaluate their worldview. The NFB has been measuring sharks for a > long while and Apple brought in an leopard. It will take time for the > definition of 'good' to be redefined. > > CB > > william lomas wrote: >> they can soon praise the iPhone yet slam the mac? >> hyppocrits >> >> >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Kind regards, BEN. email: bmustillr...@gmail.com msn: benmustillr...@hotmail.com web: http://www.bmr.me.uk (under construction) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
RE: iPhone honored by NFB
Hi. yes, that poorly researched and non objective so called review of voiceover should have been formally retracted, along with an apology, but, that did not, and probably will not, come to pass. Unfortunetly. Cameron. -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rich Ring Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2009 7:15 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB I believe that what you're seeing here is that they're trying to make up for the grave error they made with the Mac without in fact quite admitting they were wrong. You have to read between the lines a bit, but this is what I firmly believe. - Original Message - From: "ben mustill-rose" To: Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:34 PM Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB I do find it rather funny that they slammed a program that ran on a device with a full sized qwerty keyboard yet there all over the iphone with its touch screen. O well - step in the right direction anyway. On 26/09/2009, Kevin Gibbs wrote: > You have to ask the sighted friend to turn it on in preferences, I think. > K. > > -Original Message- > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Philippe Rykiel > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:30 PM > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > > Dear Chris, > a friend of mine has one of these. Can you simply tell me how to turn v o > on > and off on his device so I can give it a try. > Cheers, > JPR > http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel > > > - Original Message - > From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:05 AM > Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > It's called voiceover and as something that makes a device accessible via > speech and controls, it is voiceover, but with a different voice (not > Alex) > and a phone-specific set of gestures instead of keyboard controls. That > said, it's included on every iPhone 3GS and the newer iPod Touch. Previous > models didn't have the hardware performance to run this so there is no > upgrade to get VO on the older devices. > > CB > > Jean-Philippe Rykiel wrote: > > Sorry for a very down-to-earth question, but does the IPhone come with V O > as well? > JPR > http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel > > > ----- Original Message - > From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:48 PM > Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > > Some have difficulty comprehending what is new and, by definition, not > well understood. So they define the new in terms of what's known from > the past, but when something is a revolution rather than an evolution > the comparisons fail. Some will lodge those failures as the fault of > what was being measured and dismiss it as being flawed. Others, more > rarely, will correctly realize that the measurement framework has failed > and reevaluate their worldview. The NFB has been measuring sharks for a > long while and Apple brought in an leopard. It will take time for the > definition of 'good' to be redefined. > > CB > > william lomas wrote: >> they can soon praise the iPhone yet slam the mac? >> hyppocrits >> >> >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Kind regards, BEN. email: bmustillr...@gmail.com msn: benmustillr...@hotmail.com web: http://www.bmr.me.uk (under construction) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: iPhone honored by NFB
I believe that what you're seeing here is that they're trying to make up for the grave error they made with the Mac without in fact quite admitting they were wrong. You have to read between the lines a bit, but this is what I firmly believe. - Original Message - From: "ben mustill-rose" To: Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 6:34 PM Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB I do find it rather funny that they slammed a program that ran on a device with a full sized qwerty keyboard yet there all over the iphone with its touch screen. O well - step in the right direction anyway. On 26/09/2009, Kevin Gibbs wrote: > You have to ask the sighted friend to turn it on in preferences, I think. > K. > > -Original Message- > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Philippe Rykiel > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:30 PM > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > > Dear Chris, > a friend of mine has one of these. Can you simply tell me how to turn v o > on > and off on his device so I can give it a try. > Cheers, > JPR > http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel > > > - Original Message - > From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:05 AM > Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > It's called voiceover and as something that makes a device accessible via > speech and controls, it is voiceover, but with a different voice (not > Alex) > and a phone-specific set of gestures instead of keyboard controls. That > said, it's included on every iPhone 3GS and the newer iPod Touch. Previous > models didn't have the hardware performance to run this so there is no > upgrade to get VO on the older devices. > > CB > > Jean-Philippe Rykiel wrote: > > Sorry for a very down-to-earth question, but does the IPhone come with V O > as well? > JPR > http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel > > > ----- Original Message - > From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:48 PM > Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > > Some have difficulty comprehending what is new and, by definition, not > well understood. So they define the new in terms of what's known from > the past, but when something is a revolution rather than an evolution > the comparisons fail. Some will lodge those failures as the fault of > what was being measured and dismiss it as being flawed. Others, more > rarely, will correctly realize that the measurement framework has failed > and reevaluate their worldview. The NFB has been measuring sharks for a > long while and Apple brought in an leopard. It will take time for the > definition of 'good' to be redefined. > > CB > > william lomas wrote: >> they can soon praise the iPhone yet slam the mac? >> hyppocrits >> >> >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Kind regards, BEN. email: bmustillr...@gmail.com msn: benmustillr...@hotmail.com web: http://www.bmr.me.uk (under construction) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: iPhone honored by NFB
Right, so you either need to have sighted assistance to choose Settings -> General -> Accessibility -> VoiceOver on/off. Or, if you have Voiceover turned on when you sync the phone to your Mac it will turn VO on in the phone. Once you have VO turned on, assuming you have or will updated to the 3.1 OS rev, you should also turn on the triple-click-home tap to turn VO on and off which is also on the Accessibility settings pane. CB kaare dehard wrote: > or you can hook it up and turn it on in itunes I believe. > On 2009-09-25, at 7:27 PM, Kevin Gibbs wrote: > >> You have to ask the sighted friend to turn it on in preferences, I think. >> K. >> >> -Original Message- >> *From:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of >> *Jean-Philippe Rykiel >> *Sent:* Friday, September 25, 2009 5:30 PM >> *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >> *Subject:* Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> Dear Chris, >> a friend of mine has one of these. Can you simply tell me how to >> turn v o on and off on his device so I can give it a try. >> Cheers, >> JPR >> http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel >> >> - Original Message - >> *From:* Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> >> *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >> *Sent:* Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:05 AM >> *Subject:* Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> It's called voiceover and as something that makes a device >> accessible via speech and controls, it is voiceover, but with >> a different voice (not Alex) and a phone-specific set of >> gestures instead of keyboard controls. That said, it's >> included on every iPhone 3GS and the newer iPod Touch. >> Previous models didn't have the hardware performance to run >> this so there is no upgrade to get VO on the older devices. >> >> CB >> >> Jean-Philippe Rykiel wrote: >>> Sorry for a very down-to-earth question, but does the IPhone >>> come with V O as well? >>> JPR >>> http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> *From:* Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> >>> *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >>> *Sent:* Friday, September 25, 2009 10:48 PM >>> *Subject:* Re: iPhone honored by NFB >>> >>> >>> Some have difficulty comprehending what is new and, by >>> definition, not >>> well understood. So they define the new in terms of >>> what's known from >>> the past, but when something is a revolution rather than >>> an evolution >>> the comparisons fail. Some will lodge those failures as >>> the fault of >>> what was being measured and dismiss it as being flawed. >>> Others, more >>> rarely, will correctly realize that the measurement >>> framework has failed >>> and reevaluate their worldview. The NFB has been >>> measuring sharks for a >>> long while and Apple brought in an leopard. It will take >>> time for the >>> definition of 'good' to be redefined. >>> >>> CB >>> >>> william lomas wrote: >>> > they can soon praise the iPhone yet slam the mac? >>> > hyppocrits >>> > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: iPhone honored by NFB
I am surprised and happy with their response to the iphone with voiceover. I wonder if NFB will benefit somehow from the accessible iphone. On Sep 25, 2009, at 6:41 PM, Kevin Gibbs wrote: > Yes, but you'd have to turn it on using the iTunes acount to which > the iPhone is conected. So, you'd have to use the iPhone owner's > computer and iTunes acount, not JPR's. > K. > -Original Message- > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of kaare dehard > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 8:17 PM > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > or you can hook it up and turn it on in itunes I believe. > On 2009-09-25, at 7:27 PM, Kevin Gibbs wrote: > >> You have to ask the sighted friend to turn it on in preferences, I >> think. >> K. >> -Original Message- >> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Philippe >> Rykiel >> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:30 PM >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> Dear Chris, >> a friend of mine has one of these. Can you simply tell me how to >> turn v o on and off on his device so I can give it a try. >> Cheers, >> JPR >> http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel >> ----- Original Message - >> From: Chris Blouch >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:05 AM >> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> It's called voiceover and as something that makes a device >> accessible via speech and controls, it is voiceover, but with a >> different voice (not Alex) and a phone-specific set of gestures >> instead of keyboard controls. That said, it's included on every >> iPhone 3GS and the newer iPod Touch. Previous models didn't have >> the hardware performance to run this so there is no upgrade to get >> VO on the older devices. >> >> CB >> >> Jean-Philippe Rykiel wrote: >>> >>> Sorry for a very down-to-earth question, but does the IPhone come >>> with V O as well? >>> JPR >>> http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel >>> - Original Message - >>> From: Chris Blouch >>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:48 PM >>> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >>> >>> >>> Some have difficulty comprehending what is new and, by definition, >>> not >>> well understood. So they define the new in terms of what's known >>> from >>> the past, but when something is a revolution rather than an >>> evolution >>> the comparisons fail. Some will lodge those failures as the fault of >>> what was being measured and dismiss it as being flawed. Others, more >>> rarely, will correctly realize that the measurement framework has >>> failed >>> and reevaluate their worldview. The NFB has been measuring sharks >>> for a >>> long while and Apple brought in an leopard. It will take time for >>> the >>> definition of 'good' to be redefined. >>> >>> CB >>> >>> william lomas wrote: >>> > they can soon praise the iPhone yet slam the mac? >>> > hyppocrits >>> > >>> > >>> > > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: iPhone honored by NFB
Oh, and this isn't at all inflamatory. -- Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY On Sep 26, 2009, at 11:05 PM, hank smith wrote: > > its about time nfb did some good for a change > - Original Message - > From: "Chris Blouch" > To: "MacVisionaries" > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:53 AM > Subject: iPhone honored by NFB > > >> >> I didn't notice this mentioned on the list previously. I was one of >> the >> speakers at the NFB Web Accessibility Day in Baltimore MD on >> Tuesday and >> during the lunch Marc Maurer, President of the NFB, gave out some >> awards >> to companies they felt were leaders in the accessibility space. In >> particular they gave an award of commendation to Apple for the iPhone >> and iPod touch for doing what many folks said could not be done - to >> make a touch screen UI fully accessible. I know that the NFB in the >> past >> has been a follower in recognizing the feat of design and engineering >> that accessibility on the iPhone is but it sounds like at least the >> top >> brass are now fully aware as Dr. Maurer gave clear praise to Apple >> and >> the work done there. Lets hope NFB now give full and fair promotion >> in >> the rest of its communications. >> >> http://www.nfb.org/nfb/NewsBot.asp?MODE=VIEW&ID=468&SnID=1364143865 >> >> As a side note, it was interesting to overhear the questions folks >> had >> of the Apple rep before and after the presentation. Some wanted to >> know >> more or how it worked (apparently having never tried an iPhone/iPod >> Touch). The Apple rep also pointed out that the gesture technology >> has >> been backported to Snow Leopard for use with trackpads which was >> warmly >> received. I'm sure everyone on this list is fully aware of these >> things >> but it kind of surprised me that a room full of accessibility >> 'experts' >> were so unaware. >> >> CB >> >>> > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: iPhone honored by NFB
its about time nfb did some good for a change - Original Message - From: "Chris Blouch" To: "MacVisionaries" Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 11:53 AM Subject: iPhone honored by NFB > > I didn't notice this mentioned on the list previously. I was one of the > speakers at the NFB Web Accessibility Day in Baltimore MD on Tuesday and > during the lunch Marc Maurer, President of the NFB, gave out some awards > to companies they felt were leaders in the accessibility space. In > particular they gave an award of commendation to Apple for the iPhone > and iPod touch for doing what many folks said could not be done - to > make a touch screen UI fully accessible. I know that the NFB in the past > has been a follower in recognizing the feat of design and engineering > that accessibility on the iPhone is but it sounds like at least the top > brass are now fully aware as Dr. Maurer gave clear praise to Apple and > the work done there. Lets hope NFB now give full and fair promotion in > the rest of its communications. > > http://www.nfb.org/nfb/NewsBot.asp?MODE=VIEW&ID=468&SnID=1364143865 > > As a side note, it was interesting to overhear the questions folks had > of the Apple rep before and after the presentation. Some wanted to know > more or how it worked (apparently having never tried an iPhone/iPod > Touch). The Apple rep also pointed out that the gesture technology has > been backported to Snow Leopard for use with trackpads which was warmly > received. I'm sure everyone on this list is fully aware of these things > but it kind of surprised me that a room full of accessibility 'experts' > were so unaware. > > CB > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: iPhone honored by NFB
25 sep 2009 kl. 22.28 skrev william lomas: > they can soon praise the iPhone yet slam the mac? > hyppocrits That's exactly my thought too. Why praise one thing and diss the other? /Krister --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
RE: iPhone honored by NFB
Yes, but you'd have to turn it on using the iTunes acount to which the iPhone is conected. So, you'd have to use the iPhone owner's computer and iTunes acount, not JPR's. K. -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of kaare dehard Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 8:17 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB or you can hook it up and turn it on in itunes I believe. On 2009-09-25, at 7:27 PM, Kevin Gibbs wrote: You have to ask the sighted friend to turn it on in preferences, I think. K. -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Philippe Rykiel Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:30 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB Dear Chris, a friend of mine has one of these. Can you simply tell me how to turn v o on and off on his device so I can give it a try. Cheers, JPR http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel - Original Message - From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:05 AM Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB It's called voiceover and as something that makes a device accessible via speech and controls, it is voiceover, but with a different voice (not Alex) and a phone-specific set of gestures instead of keyboard controls. That said, it's included on every iPhone 3GS and the newer iPod Touch. Previous models didn't have the hardware performance to run this so there is no upgrade to get VO on the older devices. CB Jean-Philippe Rykiel wrote: Sorry for a very down-to-earth question, but does the IPhone come with V O as well? JPR http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel - Original Message - From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:48 PM Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB Some have difficulty comprehending what is new and, by definition, not well understood. So they define the new in terms of what's known from the past, but when something is a revolution rather than an evolution the comparisons fail. Some will lodge those failures as the fault of what was being measured and dismiss it as being flawed. Others, more rarely, will correctly realize that the measurement framework has failed and reevaluate their worldview. The NFB has been measuring sharks for a long while and Apple brought in an leopard. It will take time for the definition of 'good' to be redefined. CB william lomas wrote: > they can soon praise the iPhone yet slam the mac? > hyppocrits > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
RE: iPhone honored by NFB
The new iPhone 3GS comes with VO. That's some of what's so cool about it. -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Philippe Rykiel Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 4:59 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB Sorry for a very down-to-earth question, but does the IPhone come with V O as well? JPR http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel - Original Message - From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:48 PM Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB Some have difficulty comprehending what is new and, by definition, not well understood. So they define the new in terms of what's known from the past, but when something is a revolution rather than an evolution the comparisons fail. Some will lodge those failures as the fault of what was being measured and dismiss it as being flawed. Others, more rarely, will correctly realize that the measurement framework has failed and reevaluate their worldview. The NFB has been measuring sharks for a long while and Apple brought in an leopard. It will take time for the definition of 'good' to be redefined. CB william lomas wrote: > they can soon praise the iPhone yet slam the mac? > hyppocrits > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: iPhone honored by NFB
or you can hook it up and turn it on in itunes I believe. On 2009-09-25, at 7:27 PM, Kevin Gibbs wrote: > You have to ask the sighted friend to turn it on in preferences, I > think. > K. > -Original Message- > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Philippe > Rykiel > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:30 PM > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > Dear Chris, > a friend of mine has one of these. Can you simply tell me how to > turn v o on and off on his device so I can give it a try. > Cheers, > JPR > http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel > - Original Message - > From: Chris Blouch > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:05 AM > Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > It's called voiceover and as something that makes a device > accessible via speech and controls, it is voiceover, but with a > different voice (not Alex) and a phone-specific set of gestures > instead of keyboard controls. That said, it's included on every > iPhone 3GS and the newer iPod Touch. Previous models didn't have the > hardware performance to run this so there is no upgrade to get VO on > the older devices. > > CB > > Jean-Philippe Rykiel wrote: >> >> Sorry for a very down-to-earth question, but does the IPhone come >> with V O as well? >> JPR >> http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel >> - Original Message - >> From: Chris Blouch >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:48 PM >> Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB >> >> >> Some have difficulty comprehending what is new and, by definition, >> not >> well understood. So they define the new in terms of what's known from >> the past, but when something is a revolution rather than an evolution >> the comparisons fail. Some will lodge those failures as the fault of >> what was being measured and dismiss it as being flawed. Others, more >> rarely, will correctly realize that the measurement framework has >> failed >> and reevaluate their worldview. The NFB has been measuring sharks >> for a >> long while and Apple brought in an leopard. It will take time for the >> definition of 'good' to be redefined. >> >> CB >> >> william lomas wrote: >> > they can soon praise the iPhone yet slam the mac? >> > hyppocrits >> > >> > >> > > >> > >> >> >> > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: iPhone honored by NFB
I do find it rather funny that they slammed a program that ran on a device with a full sized qwerty keyboard yet there all over the iphone with its touch screen. O well - step in the right direction anyway. On 26/09/2009, Kevin Gibbs wrote: > You have to ask the sighted friend to turn it on in preferences, I think. > K. > > -Original Message- > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Philippe Rykiel > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:30 PM > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > > Dear Chris, > a friend of mine has one of these. Can you simply tell me how to turn v o on > and off on his device so I can give it a try. > Cheers, > JPR > http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel > > > - Original Message - > From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:05 AM > Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > It's called voiceover and as something that makes a device accessible via > speech and controls, it is voiceover, but with a different voice (not Alex) > and a phone-specific set of gestures instead of keyboard controls. That > said, it's included on every iPhone 3GS and the newer iPod Touch. Previous > models didn't have the hardware performance to run this so there is no > upgrade to get VO on the older devices. > > CB > > Jean-Philippe Rykiel wrote: > > Sorry for a very down-to-earth question, but does the IPhone come with V O > as well? > JPR > http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel > > > - Original Message - > From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:48 PM > Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > > Some have difficulty comprehending what is new and, by definition, not > well understood. So they define the new in terms of what's known from > the past, but when something is a revolution rather than an evolution > the comparisons fail. Some will lodge those failures as the fault of > what was being measured and dismiss it as being flawed. Others, more > rarely, will correctly realize that the measurement framework has failed > and reevaluate their worldview. The NFB has been measuring sharks for a > long while and Apple brought in an leopard. It will take time for the > definition of 'good' to be redefined. > > CB > > william lomas wrote: >> they can soon praise the iPhone yet slam the mac? >> hyppocrits >> >> >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Kind regards, BEN. email: bmustillr...@gmail.com msn: benmustillr...@hotmail.com web: http://www.bmr.me.uk (under construction) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
RE: iPhone honored by NFB
You have to ask the sighted friend to turn it on in preferences, I think. K. -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Jean-Philippe Rykiel Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 5:30 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB Dear Chris, a friend of mine has one of these. Can you simply tell me how to turn v o on and off on his device so I can give it a try. Cheers, JPR http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel - Original Message - From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:05 AM Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB It's called voiceover and as something that makes a device accessible via speech and controls, it is voiceover, but with a different voice (not Alex) and a phone-specific set of gestures instead of keyboard controls. That said, it's included on every iPhone 3GS and the newer iPod Touch. Previous models didn't have the hardware performance to run this so there is no upgrade to get VO on the older devices. CB Jean-Philippe Rykiel wrote: Sorry for a very down-to-earth question, but does the IPhone come with V O as well? JPR http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel - Original Message - From: Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:48 PM Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB Some have difficulty comprehending what is new and, by definition, not well understood. So they define the new in terms of what's known from the past, but when something is a revolution rather than an evolution the comparisons fail. Some will lodge those failures as the fault of what was being measured and dismiss it as being flawed. Others, more rarely, will correctly realize that the measurement framework has failed and reevaluate their worldview. The NFB has been measuring sharks for a long while and Apple brought in an leopard. It will take time for the definition of 'good' to be redefined. CB william lomas wrote: > they can soon praise the iPhone yet slam the mac? > hyppocrits > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: iPhone honored by NFB
Dear Chris,
a friend of mine has one of these. Can you simply tell me how to turn v o on
and off on his device so I can give it a try.
Cheers,
JPR
http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel
- Original Message -
From: Chris Blouch
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 12:05 AM
Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB
It's called voiceover and as something that makes a device accessible via
speech and controls, it is voiceover, but with a different voice (not Alex) and
a phone-specific set of gestures instead of keyboard controls. That said, it's
included on every iPhone 3GS and the newer iPod Touch. Previous models didn't
have the hardware performance to run this so there is no upgrade to get VO on
the older devices.
CB
Jean-Philippe Rykiel wrote:
Sorry for a very down-to-earth question, but does the IPhone come with V O
as well?
JPR
http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel
- Original Message -
From: Chris Blouch
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB
Some have difficulty comprehending what is new and, by definition, not
well understood. So they define the new in terms of what's known from
the past, but when something is a revolution rather than an evolution
the comparisons fail. Some will lodge those failures as the fault of
what was being measured and dismiss it as being flawed. Others, more
rarely, will correctly realize that the measurement framework has failed
and reevaluate their worldview. The NFB has been measuring sharks for a
long while and Apple brought in an leopard. It will take time for the
definition of 'good' to be redefined.
CB
william lomas wrote:
> they can soon praise the iPhone yet slam the mac?
> hyppocrits
>
>
> >
>
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Re: iPhone honored by NFB
Uh yeah. On Sep 25, 2009, at 2:59 PM, Jean-Philippe Rykiel wrote: > Sorry for a very down-to-earth question, but does the IPhone come > with V O as well? > JPR > http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel > - Original Message - > From: Chris Blouch > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:48 PM > Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > > Some have difficulty comprehending what is new and, by definition, not > well understood. So they define the new in terms of what's known from > the past, but when something is a revolution rather than an evolution > the comparisons fail. Some will lodge those failures as the fault of > what was being measured and dismiss it as being flawed. Others, more > rarely, will correctly realize that the measurement framework has > failed > and reevaluate their worldview. The NFB has been measuring sharks > for a > long while and Apple brought in an leopard. It will take time for the > definition of 'good' to be redefined. > > CB > > william lomas wrote: > > they can soon praise the iPhone yet slam the mac? > > hyppocrits > > > > > > > > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: iPhone honored by NFB
It's called voiceover and as something that makes a device accessible via speech and controls, it is voiceover, but with a different voice (not Alex) and a phone-specific set of gestures instead of keyboard controls. That said, it's included on every iPhone 3GS and the newer iPod Touch. Previous models didn't have the hardware performance to run this so there is no upgrade to get VO on the older devices. CB Jean-Philippe Rykiel wrote: > Sorry for a very down-to-earth question, but does the IPhone come with > V O as well? > JPR > http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel > > - Original Message - > *From:* Chris Blouch <mailto:cblo...@aol.com> > *To:* macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> > *Sent:* Friday, September 25, 2009 10:48 PM > *Subject:* Re: iPhone honored by NFB > > > Some have difficulty comprehending what is new and, by definition, > not > well understood. So they define the new in terms of what's known from > the past, but when something is a revolution rather than an evolution > the comparisons fail. Some will lodge those failures as the fault of > what was being measured and dismiss it as being flawed. Others, more > rarely, will correctly realize that the measurement framework has > failed > and reevaluate their worldview. The NFB has been measuring sharks > for a > long while and Apple brought in an leopard. It will take time for the > definition of 'good' to be redefined. > > CB > > william lomas wrote: > > they can soon praise the iPhone yet slam the mac? > > hyppocrits > > > > > > > > > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: iPhone honored by NFB
Sorry for a very down-to-earth question, but does the IPhone come with V O as well? JPR http://myspace.com/jeanphilipperykiel - Original Message - From: Chris Blouch To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 10:48 PM Subject: Re: iPhone honored by NFB Some have difficulty comprehending what is new and, by definition, not well understood. So they define the new in terms of what's known from the past, but when something is a revolution rather than an evolution the comparisons fail. Some will lodge those failures as the fault of what was being measured and dismiss it as being flawed. Others, more rarely, will correctly realize that the measurement framework has failed and reevaluate their worldview. The NFB has been measuring sharks for a long while and Apple brought in an leopard. It will take time for the definition of 'good' to be redefined. CB william lomas wrote: > they can soon praise the iPhone yet slam the mac? > hyppocrits > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: iPhone honored by NFB
Some have difficulty comprehending what is new and, by definition, not well understood. So they define the new in terms of what's known from the past, but when something is a revolution rather than an evolution the comparisons fail. Some will lodge those failures as the fault of what was being measured and dismiss it as being flawed. Others, more rarely, will correctly realize that the measurement framework has failed and reevaluate their worldview. The NFB has been measuring sharks for a long while and Apple brought in an leopard. It will take time for the definition of 'good' to be redefined. CB william lomas wrote: > they can soon praise the iPhone yet slam the mac? > hyppocrits > > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: iPhone honored by NFB
they can soon praise the iPhone yet slam the mac? hyppocrits --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: iPhone honored by NFB
Sweet. On Sep 25, 2009, at 11:53 AM, Chris Blouch wrote: > > I didn't notice this mentioned on the list previously. I was one of > the > speakers at the NFB Web Accessibility Day in Baltimore MD on Tuesday > and > during the lunch Marc Maurer, President of the NFB, gave out some > awards > to companies they felt were leaders in the accessibility space. In > particular they gave an award of commendation to Apple for the iPhone > and iPod touch for doing what many folks said could not be done - to > make a touch screen UI fully accessible. I know that the NFB in the > past > has been a follower in recognizing the feat of design and engineering > that accessibility on the iPhone is but it sounds like at least the > top > brass are now fully aware as Dr. Maurer gave clear praise to Apple and > the work done there. Lets hope NFB now give full and fair promotion in > the rest of its communications. > > http://www.nfb.org/nfb/NewsBot.asp?MODE=VIEW&ID=468&SnID=1364143865 > > As a side note, it was interesting to overhear the questions folks had > of the Apple rep before and after the presentation. Some wanted to > know > more or how it worked (apparently having never tried an iPhone/iPod > Touch). The Apple rep also pointed out that the gesture technology has > been backported to Snow Leopard for use with trackpads which was > warmly > received. I'm sure everyone on this list is fully aware of these > things > but it kind of surprised me that a room full of accessibility > 'experts' > were so unaware. > > CB > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
