Re: [maemo-developers] Does the N800 support east asian languages input?

[Mohammad Anwari]

Pada hari Sabtu, tanggal 20/01/2007 pukul 22:19 +0800, ext wolfg
menulis:
> Hi,

Hi,

> Does the N800 support East Asian languages input? Is it possible to
> extend Hildon input methods to support a East Asian language?

Not by default, but you could write your own plugin to accept East Asian
languages input.

http://www.maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_him_bora.html
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Re: [maemo-developers] N800 GUI Improvements from a Newton Developer's Perspective

[Murray Cumming]

On Sun, 2007-01-21 at 22:31 -0700, Brad Midgley wrote:
> Sean
> 
> > I did indeed, and a semi-snark-filled article deserves semi-snark-filled
> > feedback.  It's reasonable.  Several of the criticisms were valid, and
> > I'll tweak the article a bit appropriately.  And respond later on
> > perhaps to some of the criticisms that I think were off the mark; at the
> > very least the discussion might help me get a clue.
> 
> I'm not sure we'll ever get rotation.

On my Laptop running Ubuntu Edgy, the Screen Resolution has a Rotation
drop-down which actually works. So I guess it's an X thing, so it should
be possible with Maemo.

>  If we ever do, it would be nice if
> the icons represent the new orientation. I had to roll this myself for
> my tablet:
>  http://www.xmission.com/~bmidgley/p1510/
> 
> I had the feeling the obscuring-things-popup was displaying broadcast
> system messages, but messages like 'deleting' shouldn't have to be
> broadcast.
> 
> Stronger app integration through dragging/routing would be nice.

-- 
Murray Cumming
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.murrayc.com
www.openismus.com

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[maemo-developers] Re: N800 GUI Improvements from a Newton Developer's Perspective

[Ross Burton]

On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 11:40 +0100, Murray Cumming wrote:
> > > I did indeed, and a semi-snark-filled article deserves semi-snark-filled
> > > feedback.  It's reasonable.  Several of the criticisms were valid, and
> > > I'll tweak the article a bit appropriately.  And respond later on
> > > perhaps to some of the criticisms that I think were off the mark; at the
> > > very least the discussion might help me get a clue.
> > 
> > I'm not sure we'll ever get rotation.
> 
> On my Laptop running Ubuntu Edgy, the Screen Resolution has a Rotation
> drop-down which actually works. So I guess it's an X thing, so it should
> be possible with Maemo.

X supports rotation through the cunningly titled X Resize and Rotate
Extension, generally called randr.

The X server on the 770 and N800 doesn't support xrandr (though I have
seen a hacked 770 X server do randr), though Daniel Stone has said here
recently that making randr work well in Xomap is on his plan.  However
as the hildon desktop would fall apart dramatically if the display was
rotated, it's never been at the top of the list.

Ross
-- 
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Re: [maemo-developers] N800 GUI Improvements from a Newton Developer's Perspective

[Murray Cumming]

On Sun, 2007-01-21 at 12:23 -0500, Sean Luke wrote:
> After using the N800 for a week or two, which of course qualifies me  
> as Knowing All Things About It :-), I've thrown together a web page  
> describing various places the N800's GUI could be improved, and some  
> ugly bugs, from the perspective of a Newton developer (myself).  As I  
> like the N800 I tried to be fair and reasonable, exorcising most of  
> my snark, but sometimes I couldn't help myself, sorry.
> 
> Before I made the site public, I thought I'd post it to the  
> developers' group and ask for some comments, agreements, and  
> disagreements.  The site URL may change afterwards.
> 
>   http://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/n800/

This sentence makes it difficult to take things seriously:
"The N800 employs the GTK+ toolkit, originally created for the GIMP
photo-manipulation program and bearing all the hallmarks of inexpert
design."

It's also not clear whether you are criticising GTK+ (just a toolkit) or
GIMP (It's UI is getting better all the time and I'm sure they'd welcome
constructive criticism).

-- 
Murray Cumming
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.murrayc.com
www.openismus.com

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Re: [maemo-developers] N800 GUI Improvements from a Newton Developer's Perspective

[Marius Gedminas]

On Mon, Jan 22, 2007 at 11:40:57AM +0100, Murray Cumming wrote:
> On Sun, 2007-01-21 at 22:31 -0700, Brad Midgley wrote:
> > I'm not sure we'll ever get rotation.
> 
> On my Laptop running Ubuntu Edgy, the Screen Resolution has a Rotation
> drop-down which actually works. So I guess it's an X thing, so it should
> be possible with Maemo.

Not all X drivers support rotation.

IIRC Daniel Stone mentioned in one of the threads here that the hardware
supports rotation, but Xomap doesn't (yet?).  We might get rotation in
OS2008, but I'm not holding my breath.

Marius Gedminas
-- 
Every nonzero finite dimensional inner product space has an orthonormal basis.

It makes sense, when you don't think about it.


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Re: [maemo-developers] Re: N800 GUI Improvements from a Newton Developer's Perspective

[Kalle Vahlman]

2007/1/22, Ross Burton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 11:40 +0100, Murray Cumming wrote:
> > > I did indeed, and a semi-snark-filled article deserves semi-snark-filled
> > > feedback.  It's reasonable.  Several of the criticisms were valid, and
> > > I'll tweak the article a bit appropriately.  And respond later on
> > > perhaps to some of the criticisms that I think were off the mark; at the
> > > very least the discussion might help me get a clue.
> >
> > I'm not sure we'll ever get rotation.
>
> On my Laptop running Ubuntu Edgy, the Screen Resolution has a Rotation
> drop-down which actually works. So I guess it's an X thing, so it should
> be possible with Maemo.

X supports rotation through the cunningly titled X Resize and Rotate
Extension, generally called randr.

The X server on the 770 and N800 doesn't support xrandr (though I have
seen a hacked 770 X server do randr)


The X server doesn't neccessarilary have to be hacked, if you change
the framebuffer updating method:

 http://syslog.movial.fi/archives/7-xrandr-on-nokia-770.html

You will lose some performance with that though, as noted in the blog entry.


though Daniel Stone has said here
recently that making randr work well in Xomap is on his plan.


That would be rocking! :)


 However
as the hildon desktop would fall apart dramatically if the display was
rotated, it's never been at the top of the list.


The most annoying thing I discovered when playing around with a
rotated maemo-desktop was that not even the fullscreen thumb keyboard
does anything to adapt to the screen width. That was a bit of a
disappointment.

That said, most of the programs didn't fall that terribly apart with
the different orientation. The two-paned approach most apps take just
sucked more than it used to ;)

--
Kalle Vahlman, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[maemo-developers] maeomm and gtkmm for Maemo 3.0 "Bora"

[Murray Cumming]

gtkmm and maemomm packages are now available in extras. More on my blog:
http://www.murrayc.com/blog/permalink/2007/01/22/maemomm-maemo-for-c-with-gtkmm/

-- 
Murray Cumming
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.murrayc.com
www.openismus.com

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[maemo-developers] Re: Developer Device Program Request

[Mike Morrison]

After looking over some of the developer documentation I realized I didn't
need a device to try porting my application so I decided to give it a try.

I installed the Scratchbox and Xephyr and compiled one of the test programs.
I was pleasantly surprised to see how easy it was to get started. After
sorting out some issues with dependencies, I was able to get my program
compiling and running in a pretty short amount of time. You can see the
results in a few screenshots here:

http://mike.yi.org/projects/quiver/wiki/QuiverForMaemo

Now I have a few questions:

I've seen some posts about cairo on the mailing list but I didn't see a
package for it. Is it available or should I be looking for another way to
fulfill my cairo needs?

Are there any hildon_* functions to get the icon names for directories (home
folder, trash , desktop, normal folders) and for mime types? I was using a
libgnomeui function (gnome_icon_lookup_sync).

Does the N800 have a way to emit the GdkEventScroll?

Cheers,

Mike Morrison

On 1/11/07, Mike Morrison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I was reading planet.gnome.org and saw many posts about the N800 device
and I would love to get in on the Developer Device Program. I read a comment
from MDK (here: http://www.mdk.org.pl/articles/2007/01/08/next-step-moon)
that said posting a message to this mailing list is the way to sign up for
the program.

I have had a tiny bit of involvement in the open-source community:

- I have been creating an image viewer in GTK+ 2.0
  (http://mike.yi.org/quiver/)
- I have filed several bug reports with gtk+ and other open source
libraries.
- I have helped my brother with his webcam_server project
  (http://webcamserver.sourceforge.net/)

If given the opportunity to participate in this program I would love to
try porting my image viewer to the Maemo 3.0 platform.

I have not "released" quiver yet (except to a few close friends) so try it
at your own risk (and if you have Ubuntu).

BTW, Is the N800 even available in Canada?

Thanks,

Mike Morrison







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Re: [maemo-developers] Python2.5 in maemo 3.0 SDK

[Luciano Miguel Wolf]

Hi David,

This problem happens when you don't export the DISPLAY variable 
correctly. You need to point it to a valid X session, as described in 
Maemo tutorial. And I agree, the error message could be a bit clear 
about the real problem :)


Regards,
Luciano


ext David wrote:

Hi
The first time I installed the SDK with python2.5, all works fine.

But after a problem with some deb packages, I install the SDK one more 
time ( Yes, It is not a solution)


Now, I can't import gtk module :

[sbox-SDK_X86: /] > python2.5
Python 2.5 (r25:9103, Jan 15 2007, 16:50:56)
[GCC 3.4.4 (release) (CodeSourcery ARM 2005q3-2)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
 >>> import gtk
Traceback (most recent call last):
 File "", line 1, in 
 File 
"debian/python2.5-gtk2/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/__init 
__.py", line 83, in 
 File 
"debian/python2.5-gtk2/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/__init 
__.py", line 70, in _init

NameError: global name '_gtk' is not defined

google don't help me :-(

Any suggestion ?

Thanks.

David.
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Re: [maemo-developers] N800 GUI Improvements from a Newton Developer's Perspective

[Sean Luke]

Thanks, that should *definitely* be made clear.  GIMP is most  
impressive.  GTK+ is not.  Though as a NeXTSTEP and Newton developer  
perhaps I had too high an expectation of GTK+.


Sean

On Jan 22, 2007, at 5:46 AM, Murray Cumming wrote:


On Sun, 2007-01-21 at 12:23 -0500, Sean Luke wrote:

After using the N800 for a week or two, which of course qualifies me
as Knowing All Things About It :-), I've thrown together a web page
describing various places the N800's GUI could be improved, and some
ugly bugs, from the perspective of a Newton developer (myself).  As I
like the N800 I tried to be fair and reasonable, exorcising most of
my snark, but sometimes I couldn't help myself, sorry.

Before I made the site public, I thought I'd post it to the
developers' group and ask for some comments, agreements, and
disagreements.  The site URL may change afterwards.

http://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/n800/


This sentence makes it difficult to take things seriously:
"The N800 employs the GTK+ toolkit, originally created for the GIMP
photo-manipulation program and bearing all the hallmarks of inexpert
design."

It's also not clear whether you are criticising GTK+ (just a  
toolkit) or
GIMP (It's UI is getting better all the time and I'm sure they'd  
welcome

constructive criticism).

--
Murray Cumming
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.murrayc.com
www.openismus.com


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Re: [maemo-developers] N800 GUI Improvements from a Newton Developer's Perspective

[Murray Cumming]

On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 10:14 -0500, Sean Luke wrote:
> Thanks, that should *definitely* be made clear.  GIMP is most  
> impressive.  GTK+ is not.  Though as a NeXTSTEP and Newton developer  
> perhaps I had too high an expectation of GTK+.

You should probably write down your thoughts politely somewhere so
people can argue about that separately. It seems rather unfounded just
mentioned off-the-cuff like that.

-- 
Murray Cumming
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.murrayc.com
www.openismus.com

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Re: [maemo-developers] N800 GUI Improvements from a Newton Developer's Perspective

[Kalle Vahlman]

2007/1/22, Murray Cumming <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 10:14 -0500, Sean Luke wrote:
> Thanks, that should *definitely* be made clear.  GIMP is most
> impressive.  GTK+ is not.  Though as a NeXTSTEP and Newton developer
> perhaps I had too high an expectation of GTK+.

You should probably write down your thoughts politely somewhere so
people can argue about that separately. It seems rather unfounded just
mentioned off-the-cuff like that.


Or, I can balance the books by stating that Gtk+ is awesome (which it
is), and we can forget that either one of us said anything and talk
about something that is a bit more to the fact and little less about
pure opinions.

Right?-)

--
Kalle Vahlman, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [maemo-developers] N800 GUI Improvements from a Newton Developer's Perspective

[Christian F.K. Schaller]

Well we should be careful this list doesn't become known as haven for
supporters of old dead technologies. Today a Newton fan crying over the
loss of what he thinks is the worlds most incredible handheld toolkit,
tomorrow someone mailing about how incredible the N770 would be using
the Amiga workbench or an old Acorn fan claiming that the device would
reach the heavens if it only ran Acorn Unix.

Think there is a some special newsgroups still around where these people
belong :) 

Christian


On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 17:33 +0200, Kalle Vahlman wrote:
> 2007/1/22, Murray Cumming <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > On Mon, 2007-01-22 at 10:14 -0500, Sean Luke wrote:
> > > Thanks, that should *definitely* be made clear.  GIMP is most
> > > impressive.  GTK+ is not.  Though as a NeXTSTEP and Newton developer
> > > perhaps I had too high an expectation of GTK+.
> >
> > You should probably write down your thoughts politely somewhere so
> > people can argue about that separately. It seems rather unfounded just
> > mentioned off-the-cuff like that.
> 
> Or, I can balance the books by stating that Gtk+ is awesome (which it
> is), and we can forget that either one of us said anything and talk
> about something that is a bit more to the fact and little less about
> pure opinions.
> 
> Right?-)


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Re: [maemo-developers] N800 GUI Improvements from a Newton Developer's Perspective

[Kalle Vahlman]

2007/1/22, Christian F.K. Schaller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

Well we should be careful this list doesn't become known as haven for
supporters of old dead technologies. Today a Newton fan crying over the
loss of what he thinks is the worlds most incredible handheld toolkit,
tomorrow someone mailing about how incredible the N770 would be using
the Amiga workbench


Hey, hey, careful! You might make the Amiga community feel bad if you
make false claims about the freshness[1] of their OS[2].

;)

[1] http://www.hyperion-entertainment.biz:8080/news/2006-12-24
[2] http://os4.hyperion-entertainment.biz/

--
Kalle Vahlman, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [maemo-developers] N800 GUI Improvements from a Newton Developer's Perspective

[Dave Cridland]

On Mon Jan 22 15:44:48 2007, Christian F.K. Schaller wrote:
Well we should be careful this list doesn't become known as haven 
for

supporters of old dead technologies.


I'm wandering off topic here, sorta...

There are lots of old, dead, technologies which still have plenty of 
interesting features that we would be foolish not to at least 
consider. So sure, I'd hate the idea of taking something with the 
display and CPU power of a 770 or N800, and then exclusively run 
decade-old technology, but there's plenty of technology that *is* a 
decade old that the device could really benefit from.


Sean's little essay, whilst obviously biased, is still interesting. 
It makes me wonder why the Maemo toolbar never has borders around the 
buttons so we know where to tap, for instance, and it makes me stop 
to consider how much screen area is taken up with Pretty Stuff.


Also, I rather liked the drag-drop clipboard he describes from the 
Newton - looking at it that way makes me wonder if it couldn't be 
done my using that RHS gutter he hates, in HildonWindow.


Dave. (Who uses such ridiculous decade-old tech as "push email", and 
"roaming", would you believe, even though these will obviously never 
catch on.).

--
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[maemo-developers] Re: sapwood documentation

[Koen Kooi]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Forwarding as requested :)

Michael 'Mickey' Lauer schreef:
> Koen, could you send this to [EMAIL PROTECTED] on my behalf? -- i have tried
> twice, but it seems I'm stuck on some filter or something. Thanks!
> 
> Hi,
> 
> the OpenMoko [1] team is evaluating to use the sapwood theming engine
> on our forthcoming Linux distribution for the Neo1973 mobile phone.
> 
> Is there any documentation -- apart from the source code, of course --
> about the additional keywords and functionality provided on top of the pixmap
> engine?
> 
> [1] http://www.openmoko.com
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> :M:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin)

iD8DBQFFtOvMMkyGM64RGpERAtAgAKCBqVds9VS1g+l4oz+ZjPb6/PDVUwCeM6Zr
MYjOQEaSscSQqg8UO8CLR+w=
=CGil
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
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[maemo-developers] to Nokia: simple method to gain a gaming audience on 770/800

[Antonio Orlando]

I'd like to advance a proposal, mainly to Nokia's Tableteer site  
developers.


There's no need to explain why a better gaming experience on the internet  
tablets could boost user-base: of course, for a "high-level" portable  
gaming experience we'll buy a GBA/DS/PSP/GP2X etc.; I know 770/800 is not  
a gaming platform, but if we have a 770/800 in our pocket, and we're in  
gaming mood, and we have no money for a new good game for our GBA these  
times, why not benefit of our ITB's (Internet Tablet) nice display and  
touch screen?


Let me soon underline that I'm not going to ask for a better hardware for  
games, or a better button pad, etc.: nothing needs to be changed, but  
gaming experience on ITB can be *extremely* boosted with a relatively  
simple initiative, better if supported by Nokia itself for its success -  
let me explain it, I hope I succeed in making you see its potential how I  
do, and take action.


You all know how the Nintendo Wii has gained poularity, and sells. With  
this nice console in their living room, plenty of users have access to the  
Internet in a very straightforward way, just like the ITB does on the go  
(incidentally, this reminds me the main current trends of Microsoft and  
Apple: Microsoft at home, Apple on the go).


The Nintendo Wii can be considered, imho, a great alley for Nokia Internet  
Tablets sells and popularity: can you see why?
I own a Nokia 770: let me say that gaming experience, out of the box, is  
very poor. Tak has done a very good job with emulators porting, but this  
cannot be considered a solution: first, most users don't own so much  
arcade boards and nes cartridges in order to legally play their favourite  
games through emulators; second, the hardware keys simply cannot be used  
for a smooth gameplay; third, the average user will not easily find and  
follow the route to emugaming on its tablet.


So, why the Wii can be an alley? Because you can see that lots of Flash  
developers are creating plenty of very nice and enjoyable games... with  
Wii in mind. As the Opera browser can display Flash content, they adapt  
their old games or create new ones scaling down needed resources, fitting  
a TV display, and - above all - making them playable *with just the  
mouse*. This is the real point: just-mouse games!


Wait: this means not that I'm going to propose we should use those games  
on the ITB (even if some of those work almost perfectly on my 770, if I  
set "quality: low" for Flash content display). My suggestion really is:


--->>> steal the "wiicade.com" idea! [1] <<<---

It is a site collecting Flash games adapted to be used on the Nintendo Wii  
console; there's also a voting system, top-rated list, newest ones list,  
search by name field, etc.; developers can submit games (to promote their  
sites, or whatever) and the games are free to use, and easy to find. No  
installation required, no repository in the Application catalogue needed,  
no dependencies, nothing: want to play? click and enjoy! Are you bored?  
Close your browser, or browse back and try another one ;)


I hate Flash sites. But when it comes to games, a Flash plugin can really  
turn a web browser in a simple yet powerful  
sandbox-embedded-gaming-platform. So, we already have built-in in our  
tablets this nice web browser and this popular "embedded-game-platform"  
plugin: and they're the same choice made by Nintendo, one of the best  
gaming companies of the world, for their newest console; they're some  
versions older on ITBs, though, but they are not that bad (and sometimes  
"old" means "faster" too).


As many "mouse-only concept" free Flash games are popping out following  
the Wii trend, Nokia should take advantage of that and gain some  
popularity from those users who could enjoy a portable device capable of  
providing access to plenty of *free* nice games (have I underlined the  
word "free" enough? ;)
Not only free, but easy to "install" (well, no installation is required at  
all), easy to "uninstall" (well, no uninstallation is required at all),  
easy to store and load when offline (they are just swf files, the built-in  
file manager can access them from a memory card just like a mame frontend  
does on zipped roms archives), easy to adapt for developers (it's Flash  
after all).


So, if still you have no idea of what is my proposal, here it is finally:

The default main page in the browser on ITB is the Tableteer: we already  
have a big link to the "Fun for Kids" section, where some games are linked  
to be downloaded and installed. Good, let's share the "Fun for Kids"  
label, even if we all know those "kids" can eventually be more than 30  
years old sometimes ;)
There, I can see fitting the link for a service similar to wiicade.com,  
where developers can submit their games, specifically adapted for use on  
the Internet Tablets. Of course, there will be a clear separation between  
"Nokia 770" games and "Nokia N800" games, where 770 ones 

Re: [maemo-developers] N800 GUI Improvements from a Newton Developer's Perspective

[Antonio Orlando]

Not only in technologies, but in every field of human knowledge we should  
never stop to take sometimes a breath, and look in the past: oh how many  
great ideas have been covered by the dust of time. Best things are those  
who survive: maybe it's commonly true, but not always true.


That review is great, so much polarized and so much great :) And I'm  
thankful to the writer for having me given a glance of the Newton OS,  
which I've never seen: thank you, I hope some of your suggestions will be  
taken into the right account.


--
Antonio



Well we should be careful this list doesn't become known as haven for
supporters of old dead technologies. Today a Newton fan crying over the
loss of what he thinks is the worlds most incredible handheld toolkit,
tomorrow someone mailing about how incredible the N770 would be using
the Amiga workbench

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Re: [maemo-developers] N800 GUI Improvements from a Newton Developer's Perspective

[Gopi Flaherty]

On Jan 22, 2007, at 10:44 AM, Christian F.K. Schaller wrote:


Well we should be careful this list doesn't become known as haven for
supporters of old dead technologies. Today a Newton fan crying over  
the

loss of what he thinks is the worlds most incredible handheld toolkit,
tomorrow someone mailing about how incredible the N770 would be using
the Amiga workbench or an old Acorn fan claiming that the device would
reach the heavens if it only ran Acorn Unix.

Think there is a some special newsgroups still around where these  
people

belong :)



I have another way to think about it:

There are many different problems that people writing handheld UIs  
have tried to solve over the years.


I'm certain that some of the people working on these problems have  
found interesting and unique solutions.


If everybody re-invents the wheel from scratch, everybody will make  
the same mistakes, over and over. Progress depends on learning from  
the mistakes of others, and improving and refining ideas.


Sean Luke did not say that the 770 should be running the Newton OS.  
Rather, he showed specific things that the Newton did better than the  
770.


Apple spent literally hundreds of millions of dollars and something  
like 10 years working on the Newton. With that much R&D, it's worth  
looking at least briefly at what they did.



"If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders  
of Giants." - Isaac Newton




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RE: [maemo-developers] DSP programming

[Simon Pickering]

 
> I get the following output from the linked hellotimer task:
> 
> # ./hellotimer 5
> Cannot open /dev/dsptask/hellotimer
> 
> # dspctl start hellotimer.out
> Loading hellotimer.out...
> .text : adr = 0x80, size= 331 ...initialization failed!!
> Can't determine reset vector address
> 
> This is a bit confusing as in the hellotimer.cmd file the 
> MEMORY section
> states:
> 
> MEMORY {
> EXRAM_HELLO: origin = 0x3, len = 0x1000 } SECTIONS { 
> .text {} > EXRAM_HELLO }
> 
> But the output of "dspctl start" seems to indicate that it's 
> trying to place it at the ROM location (as specified in the 
> dummy.cmd file, which is also linked in - I'll try removing 
> this to see if it helps):
> 
> MEMORY {
> RAM: origin = 0x00, len = 0x80
> ROM: origin = 0x80, len = 0x80
> }
> 

Okay, so removing the dummy.cmd file (the linker command file) removes this
issue and I get the following:

Nokia770-39:/home/user# dspctl start hellotimer.out
loading hellotimer.out...
.text   : adr = 0x000100, size=  331  ... initialized.
.data   : adr = 0x01, size=0
.bss: adr = 0x01, size=   44  ... initialized.
.const  : adr = 0x00024c, size=  126  ... initialized.
warning: found zero-sized cinit entry at 0x22
.cinit  : adr = 0x00, size=   36   ... .bss variables are
initialized.
setting DSP reset vector to 0x00
releasing DSP reset
DSP configuration ... failed
Device or resource busy

Then a lifeguard reset.

So still some issue, but at least the memory thing looks just about okay.
Not sure the reset vector should be 0x00 though. 

The dsplink examples generally include both the tokliBIOS.cmd and
tokliBIOScfg.cmd linker command files. I think the latter corresponds to the
avs_kernelcfg.cmd file which is found in /lib/dsp/ (and should also
correspond to the stripped down dummy.cmd file, which caused some issues
above, according to one of the dsplink examples). If this is the case, I
wonder why both are needed (as the avs_kernelcfg.cmd file contains all of
the contents of the tokliBIOS.cmd file, just with differing values).
Presumably this would be different had I just built the kernel from the
source code, or perhaps the avs_kernelcfg.cmd file has had everything added
to it for convenience? 

Linking with the avs_kernelcfg.cmd file produces lots of warnings, as I have
to comment out at least the clk.a55L library as it's not present in the Ti
DSP toolchain for Linux (any pointers to a location for this file
appreciated), and other than that, and the fact that coff_unresolve -s
.tinkernel hellotimer.o leaves lots of extra sections behind, the behaviour
is the same as the previous one:

Anyone have any ideas as to what is causing the reset? How can I query the
DSP to find out what's wrong (other than a very quick 'cat
/sys/devices/platform/dsp/err' iirc)? I hope I'm not chasing the wrong thing
here, fiddling about with the avs_kernelcfg.cmd file, and that there's not
something more fundamental (and probably simple) wrong.

Any Ti gurus out there know how much of the avs_kernelcfg.cmd file is
required (or what extra)? I need to read-up on the reset vector.

Another aside, I find it interesting/odd that the demo_console.o file (this
is an unlinked object file) is able to run quite happily when called from
the arm binary, but that it can't be loaded using "dspctl start". 

Nokia770-39:/home/user# dspctl start demo_console.out
loading demo_console.out...
Can't determine reset vector address

When linked it isn't interested (so something wrong with my linking commands
- I'll concentrate solely on this example now to save muddying the waters by
introducing new code). 

Cheers,


Simon

P.S. Anyone know how I should contact Ti about the missing library? The
toolchain download page points to the Yahoo omap group (to which I've posted
a question), but the mailing list on that group appears to contain only
spam.

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RE: [maemo-developers] to Nokia: simple method to gain a gamingaudience on 770/800

[Jakub.Pavelek]

>I'd like to advance a proposal, mainly to Nokia's Tableteer 
>site developers.
>
>There's no need to explain why a better gaming experience on 
>the internet tablets could boost user-base: of course, for a 
>"high-level" portable gaming experience we'll buy a 
>GBA/DS/PSP/GP2X etc.; I know 770/800 is not a gaming platform, 
>but if we have a 770/800 in our pocket, and we're in gaming 
>mood, and we have no money for a new good game for our GBA 
>these times, why not benefit of our ITB's (Internet Tablet) 
>nice display and touch screen?
>
>Let me soon underline that I'm not going to ask for a better 
>hardware for games, or a better button pad, etc.: nothing 
>needs to be changed, but gaming experience on ITB can be 
>*extremely* boosted with a relatively simple initiative, 
>better if supported by Nokia itself for its success - let me 
>explain it, I hope I succeed in making you see its potential 
>how I do, and take action.
>
>You all know how the Nintendo Wii has gained poularity, and 
>sells. With this nice console in their living room, plenty of 
>users have access to the Internet in a very straightforward 
>way, just like the ITB does on the go (incidentally, this 
>reminds me the main current trends of Microsoft and
>Apple: Microsoft at home, Apple on the go).
>
>The Nintendo Wii can be considered, imho, a great alley for 
>Nokia Internet Tablets sells and popularity: can you see why?
>I own a Nokia 770: let me say that gaming experience, out of 
>the box, is very poor. Tak has done a very good job with 
>emulators porting, but this cannot be considered a solution: 
>first, most users don't own so much arcade boards and nes 
>cartridges in order to legally play their favourite games 
>through emulators; second, the hardware keys simply cannot be 
>used for a smooth gameplay; third, the average user will not 
>easily find and follow the route to emugaming on its tablet.
>
>So, why the Wii can be an alley? Because you can see that lots 
>of Flash developers are creating plenty of very nice and 
>enjoyable games... with Wii in mind. As the Opera browser can 
>display Flash content, they adapt their old games or create 
>new ones scaling down needed resources, fitting a TV display, 
>and - above all - making them playable *with just the mouse*. 
>This is the real point: just-mouse games!
>
>Wait: this means not that I'm going to propose we should use 
>those games on the ITB (even if some of those work almost 
>perfectly on my 770, if I set "quality: low" for Flash content 
>display). My suggestion really is:
>
>--->>> steal the "wiicade.com" idea! [1] <<<---
>
>It is a site collecting Flash games adapted to be used on the 
>Nintendo Wii console; there's also a voting system, top-rated 
>list, newest ones list, search by name field, etc.; developers 
>can submit games (to promote their sites, or whatever) and the 
>games are free to use, and easy to find. No installation 
>required, no repository in the Application catalogue needed, 
>no dependencies, nothing: want to play? click and enjoy! Are 
>you bored?  
>Close your browser, or browse back and try another one ;)
>
>I hate Flash sites. But when it comes to games, a Flash plugin 
>can really turn a web browser in a simple yet powerful 
>sandbox-embedded-gaming-platform. So, we already have built-in 
>in our tablets this nice web browser and this popular 
>"embedded-game-platform"  
>plugin: and they're the same choice made by Nintendo, one of 
>the best gaming companies of the world, for their newest 
>console; they're some versions older on ITBs, though, but they 
>are not that bad (and sometimes "old" means "faster" too).
>
>As many "mouse-only concept" free Flash games are popping out 
>following the Wii trend, Nokia should take advantage of that 
>and gain some popularity from those users who could enjoy a 
>portable device capable of providing access to plenty of 
>*free* nice games (have I underlined the word "free" enough? 
>;) Not only free, but easy to "install" (well, no installation 
>is required at all), easy to "uninstall" (well, no 
>uninstallation is required at all), easy to store and load 
>when offline (they are just swf files, the built-in file 
>manager can access them from a memory card just like a mame 
>frontend does on zipped roms archives), easy to adapt for 
>developers (it's Flash after all).
>
>So, if still you have no idea of what is my proposal, here it 
>is finally:
>
>The default main page in the browser on ITB is the Tableteer: 
>we already have a big link to the "Fun for Kids" section, 
>where some games are linked to be downloaded and installed. 
>Good, let's share the "Fun for Kids"  
>label, even if we all know those "kids" can eventually be more 
>than 30 years old sometimes ;) There, I can see fitting the 
>link for a service similar to wiicade.com, where developers 
>can submit their games, specifically adapted for use on the 
>Internet Tablets. Of course, there will be a clear separation 
>between "Nokia 770"

Re: [maemo-developers] Developer device program update

[Jean-Luc Biord]

Hi,
My name is Jean-Luc Biord and I work usually with Trolltech Qt. I am 
author of QDevelop , a IDE for Qt. I am a new user 
of Nokia 770 (one month). I created the pengupop project in the 
garage.maemo. It is a simple port on Maemo. But specific developments 
for Nokia are planned. I will like to have the offer of Nokia 800 to 90 
euros. Is it still possible?


Thanks,
Jean-Luc Biord

Dear Maemo contributors,

We will be sending discount codes to the elected people tomorrow
Monday, 22nd. These are the criteria we have been using for the
invitations:

- People recommended by core Maemo developers (Nokia employees).
- Active project members at garage.maemo.org.
- Maintainers of tools and libraries being ported to Maemo.
- Active contributors in maemo-developers and maemo-users.
- Active contributors to the #maemo IRC channel.
- Upstream developers of core IT OS components and applications.
- Companies/professionals working with us and involved in the free
software community.
- Internet Tablet / Maemo evangelists, creative bloggers and 
independent media.

- Linux embedded insiders.
- Also some FLOSS VIP people (where "I" stands for Interconnected).

This is taking longer than expected, mainly because of the gathering
data process (i.e. getting the name and email from a userID in a forum
or a chat room). In order to avoid more delays we will send a first
wave of invitations that should cover all our core contributors'
spectrum. Next week we will go for missed people and unusual cases in
a second and final wave.

With the discount code you will be able to purchase a N800 Internet
Tablet from Nokia online shops for 99€ or equivalent price in your
currency. Note that it is possible to buy the N800 only from some
countries, due to commercial and legal factors totally out of the
control of the Maemo team. All we can do is not filtering candidates
by country of residence. This means that residents of "non-supported"
countries might get an invitation as well. If this is your case you
will need to decide yourself how to make the best use of your discount
code.

The codes will expire on 30th June 2007.

If you have questions please check
http://maemo.org/maemowiki/N800DeveloperDeviceProgram



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[maemo-developers] SyncEvolution + EDS-DBus (was: Re: Discussion of a possible project - offline calendar project)

[Patrick Ohly]

On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 22:23 +0100, Patrick Ohly wrote:
[syncing offline calendar with Google Calendar]
> There are existing components that could be reused to do exactly what
> you want:
>   * my SyncEvolution: SyncML client which works with EDS-DBus and
> thus Contacts/Dates
>   * sync.scheduleworld.com: is a free (as in beer) SyncML server
> which interfaces with Google calendar
> 
> SyncEvolution compiles for the Nokia 770 since 0.4, released on
> 11.09.2006. I did not announce this more widely because it is still
> pretty rough:
>   * no GUI, can only be started in an shell
>   * one (non-essential) part is a Perl script which complains about
> some missing modules (UTF-8)
>   * the showstopper though were performance/timeout issues in the
> EDS-DBus libraries (see below)

Here's a summary of the current status: the timeouts that I observed for
a large address book can be avoided by using the async versions of the
calls. e_book_async_get_changes() is not documented in older versions of
the library and missing on the Evolution documtation web site, but it
exists.

e_book_async_get_changes() is needed by SyncEvolution for incremental
synchronizations. Unfortunately it just crashes. One can force it to
always do a slow sync (and risk duplicates in doing so...), but it will
still crash at the end because then it calls e_book_async_get_changes()
to move the change tracker forward.

I debugged this with Ross over the weekend: it seems like an update of
the address book libraries will be needed to fix this, but it's not
clear yet how. On the IT2006 image the server also needs to be updated
because of a change in the DBus interface between it and the library;
whether that can be avoided by patching the IT2006 version of the
library remains to be seen. Stay tuned...

Disclaimer: my recent interest in getting SyncEvolution working is not
motivated by the Nokia 800 developer program ;-) I restarted that effort
already during the holidays, before the program was announced. However,
should someone at Nokia consider SyncML support on the 800 important
enough to invite me, then I'd be happy to participate in the program and
ensure that SyncEvolution works there properly.

-- 
Bye, Patrick Ohly
--  
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.estamos.de/
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[maemo-developers] Nokia Developer Device Program

[Piotr Zurek]

Hi guys,

Just to make my project a bit more visible to maemo team...

Now, that MDK has got GTK# running nicely on N800, there is nothing that 
stops me from porting Psycho (www.psycho-project.org) to Maemo.

Well, nothing except of not actually having a N800.

Some more screenshots: 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/piotrzurek/sets/72157594494330750/


Cheers,
Piotr
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[maemo-developers] n800 developer discount codes are out!

[Collin R. Mulliner]

For those who care, I just got my code <30 minutes ago!

@maemo-team: THANKS!

Collin
--
Collin R. Mulliner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
BETAVERSiON Systems [www.betaversion.net]
info/pgp: finger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I'm a doctor, not a mechanic. --Dr. Leonard McCoy

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[maemo-developers] Re: N800, xkb and Sierra full size bluetooth keyboard

[Laurent GUERBY]

After reading docs and some trial and error, I found out if you do the
changes below in /usr/share/X11/xkb/ and select enlish/GB keyboard
the Think Outside Stowaway Sierra Full Size Bluetooth Keyboard
will mostly work ok (with AltGr instead of the Fn key to get the "blue"
symbols and compose for accents - I'm french :).

I did not succeed in getting the "EIGHT_LEVEL" or "level5" mode to work
and define more key combos with "Fn"+key. If any xkb syntax expert
is lurking arount, help welcomed.

Laurent
http://guerby.org/blog/

$ diff -u compat/level5 compat/level5_save
--- compat/level5   2007-01-20 21:34:43.0 +0100
+++ compat/level5_save  2007-01-20 21:34:43.0 +0100
@@ -15,13 +15,13 @@
 latchMods.latchToLock= True;
 
 //ISO_Level5_Shift
-interpret Hyper_L+Any {
+interpret 0xfe11+Any {
useModMapMods= level1;
virtualModifier= LevelFive;
action= SetMods(modifiers=LevelFive);
 };
 
-interpret Hyper_L {
+interpret 0xfe11 {
action= SetMods(modifiers=LevelFive);
 };
 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/tmp/n$ diff -u compat/level5_save compat/level5
--- compat/level5_save  2007-01-20 21:34:43.0 +0100
+++ compat/level5   2007-01-20 21:34:43.0 +0100
@@ -15,13 +15,13 @@
 latchMods.latchToLock= True;
 
 //ISO_Level5_Shift
-interpret 0xfe11+Any {
+interpret Hyper_L+Any {
useModMapMods= level1;
virtualModifier= LevelFive;
action= SetMods(modifiers=LevelFive);
 };
 
-interpret 0xfe11 {
+interpret Hyper_L {
action= SetMods(modifiers=LevelFive);
 };
 
$ diff -u symbols/level5_save symbols/level5
--- symbols/level5_save 2007-01-20 21:34:34.0 +0100
+++ symbols/level5  2007-01-20 21:34:34.0 +0100
@@ -12,7 +12,7 @@
 xkb_symbols "rctrl_switch" {
   key  {
 type[Group1]="ONE_LEVEL",
-symbols[Group1] = [ 0xfe11 ]
+symbols[Group1] = [ Hyper_L ]
 };
-  modifier_map Mod3   { 0xfe11 };
+  modifier_map Mod3   { Hyper_L };
 };
$ diff -u symbols/gb_save symbols/gb
--- symbols/gb_save 2007-01-20 21:34:34.0 +0100
+++ symbols/gb  2007-01-20 21:34:33.0 +0100
@@ -16,17 +16,26 @@
 
 name[Group1]="United Kingdom";
 
-key  { [ 2,   quotedbl,  twosuperior,oneeighth ] };
-key  { [ 3,   sterling, threesuperior,sterling ] };
-key  { [ 4, dollar, EuroSign,   onequarter ] };
+// key   { [ 2,   quotedbl,  twosuperior,oneeighth ] 
};
+// key   { [ 3,   sterling, threesuperior,sterling ] 
};
+// key   { [ 4, dollar, EuroSign,   onequarter ] 
};
+
+// key   { [apostrophe, at, dead_circumflex, dead_caron] 
};
+// key   { [ grave,notsign,  bar,  bar ] 
};
+
+// key   { [numbersign, asciitilde,   dead_grave,   dead_breve ] 
};
+// key   { [ backslash,bar,  bar,brokenbar ] 
};
+
+key  { [ p,  P,sterling,THORN ]  
};
+key  { [ y,  Y,yen,  leftarrow ] };
+key  { [ e,  E, EuroSign, cent, EuroSign 
]   };
+key   {   [ Tab,  ISO_Left_Tab, Escape, Escape]   };
 
-key  { [apostrophe, at, dead_circumflex, dead_caron] };
-key  { [ grave,notsign,  bar,  bar ] };
-
-key  { [numbersign, asciitilde,   dead_grave,   dead_breve ] };
-key  { [ backslash,bar,  bar,brokenbar ] };
+key  {[ Hyper_L  ]   };
 
 include "level3(ralt_switch_multikey)"
+
+
 };
 
 partial alphanumeric_keys
$

On Sat, 2007-01-20 at 14:16 +0100, Laurent GUERBY wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have an N800 and a sierra bluetooth keyboard. It looks like the "Fn"
> key of this keyboard is not processed by the keyboard but sent
> to the N800 and interpreted as the "Menu" key, so in practice all keys
> that should be accessible using the Fn key as modifier don't work. This
> includes F1..F12, PageUp/Down, EuroSign, YenSign, ... so it's
> pretty annoying.
> 
> It looks like there is lots of interesting keyboard stuff
> in /usr/share/X11/xkb/ on my N800, any idea on how to define an adapted
> layout? (I assume defining the Fn key as a modifier Hyper_R or something
> then adding definitions on the other keys.)
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Laurent
> 
> References:
> 
> * "Think Outside Stowaway Sierra Full Size Bluetooth Keyboard"
> http://www.expansys.com/p.aspx?i=137486
> (I have a qwerty model)
> 
> * https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=333


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Re: [maemo-developers] n800 developer discount codes are out!

[Jonathan Matthews-Levine]

On 1/22/07, Collin R. Mulliner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

For those who care, I just got my code <30 minutes ago!


Me2!


@maemo-team: THANKS!


[EMAIL PROTECTED] - thanks a million!
I can't /wait/ to get my hands on it :-)

Jonathan
--
Jonathan Matthews-Levine|[EMAIL PROTECTED]|07790 195 895
 "That sounds vaguely obscene, and if there's one thing I
 cannot *stand*, it's vagueness." -- Dean Grennell
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Re: [maemo-developers] Does the N800 support east asian languages input?

[Kimitake Abe]

Now I'm trying to support Japanese :)

I have installed anthy as backend to my scrachbox and now customizing
default IM to use it, but I need to look into a lot of things
to finish it...

Regards,
Kimitake

-Original Message-
From:Mohammad Anwari <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:  ext wolfg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date:Mon, 22 Jan 2007 12:19:02 +0200
Subject: Re: [maemo-developers] Does the N800 support east asian languages 
input?


Pada hari Sabtu, tanggal 20/01/2007 pukul 22:19 +0800, ext wolfg
menulis:
> Hi,

Hi,

> Does the N800 support East Asian languages input? Is it possible to
> extend Hildon input methods to support a East Asian language?

Not by default, but you could write your own plugin to accept East Asian
languages input.

http://www.maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_him_bora.html
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Re: [maemo-developers] Developer device program update

[Komal Shah]

On 1/21/07, Quim Gil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Dear Maemo contributors,

We will be sending discount codes to the elected people tomorrow
Monday, 22nd. These are the criteria we have been using for the
invitations:

- People recommended by core Maemo developers (Nokia employees).
- Active project members at garage.maemo.org.
- Maintainers of tools and libraries being ported to Maemo.
- Active contributors in maemo-developers and maemo-users.
- Active contributors to the #maemo IRC channel.
- Upstream developers of core IT OS components and applications.
- Companies/professionals working with us and involved in the free
software community.
- Internet Tablet / Maemo evangelists, creative bloggers and independent media.
- Linux embedded insiders.
- Also some FLOSS VIP people (where "I" stands for Interconnected).

This is taking longer than expected, mainly because of the gathering
data process (i.e. getting the name and email from a userID in a forum
or a chat room). In order to avoid more delays we will send a first
wave of invitations that should cover all our core contributors'
spectrum. Next week we will go for missed people and unusual cases in
a second and final wave.



I wish that, I will be in the second wave now. You can see my OMAP1/2
Linux kernel contributions at source tree for OMAP Linux kernel.

http://source.mvista.com/git/gitweb.cgi?p=linux-omap-2.6.git&a=search&h=f69169f90c434088afd97a7099b47837d8e39865&s=Komal+Shah

Also, I will soon start working on OMAP3430 Linux kernel and
submitting existing drivers e.g audio/v4l2 etc to upstream Linus
mainline tree.

other way to check contributions is:

Type following keywords in google:

site:linux.omap.com Komal Shah

If at all I am selected for discount code, please send it to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and CC to [EMAIL PROTECTED] I
have almost exceeded 1GB quota of yahoo inbox, but I will soon start
making space there. Thanx.

Also checking my blog for OMAP also helps. More details about me can
also be found talking with Nokia Linux Kernel team e.g Tony, Doyu-San,
Juha Yrola, Imre Deak :)

http://komalshah.blogspot.com

--
---Komal Shah
http://komalshah.blogspot.com
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[maemo-developers] N800 Developer Device program: European discount codes sent

[Quim Gil]

After over passing all the internal hurdles and quality checks, this
evening a first wave of N800 discount codes has been sent. It's been a
European wave; since we have still some unfinished ends in the US
online shop that prevent us sending codes over the Atlantic. Sorry
about that. We have decided to send anyway the non-European
invitations today, so at least people know we thought of them (you?)
as well. Then we will leave some days for feedback and we will send
the last wave of codes, reaching the 500 planned invitations.

Important tip to those contacting us aiming to get a discount code in
the final wave: the less we know you the more you should explain. The
final wave is primarily for recovering contact details of contributors
that we imperfect humans have missed.

Questions? Answers: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/N800DeveloperDeviceProgram

--
Quim Gil /// http://desdeamericaconamor.org
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Re: [maemo-developers] N800 Developer Device program: European discount codes sent

[Jon Smirl]

On 1/23/07, Quim Gil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

After over passing all the internal hurdles and quality checks, this
evening a first wave of N800 discount codes has been sent. It's been a
European wave; since we have still some unfinished ends in the US
online shop that prevent us sending codes over the Atlantic. Sorry
about that. We have decided to send anyway the non-European
invitations today, so at least people know we thought of them (you?)
as well. Then we will leave some days for feedback and we will send
the last wave of codes, reaching the 500 planned invitations.

Important tip to those contacting us aiming to get a discount code in
the final wave: the less we know you the more you should explain. The
final wave is primarily for recovering contact details of contributors
that we imperfect humans have missed.

Questions? Answers: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/N800DeveloperDeviceProgram


I'm a kernel developer and I bought a 770 a couple of months ago at
full price. I'm not going to be very happy if all of the development
moves onto the 800. I'm also not happy with the prospect of buying
another $400 device and I probably won't. But I would be willing to
pass my 770 onto another developer in exchange for a code.

--
Jon Smirl
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [maemo-developers] Re: sapwood documentation

[Tommi Komulainen]

> Michael 'Mickey' Lauer schreef:
> > 
> > the OpenMoko [1] team is evaluating to use the sapwood theming engine
> > on our forthcoming Linux distribution for the Neo1973 mobile phone.
> > 
> > Is there any documentation -- apart from the source code, of course --
> > about the additional keywords and functionality provided on top of the 
> > pixmap
> > engine?

Unfortunately no. I'm should have the time to work on the theme engine
this week and next, including writing some documentation. First goal
would be to explain some things for gtkrc maintainers.

But differences to pixmap engine really quickly:
  * 'recolorable' keyword is removed
  * 'border' values must leave at least 1px in the center (no
gradients)
  * 'shaped' (boolean) must match whether the image has alpha
channel (think rounded corners) or not when the image is used
for painting GtkMenu or GtkWindow derivative
  * only supports 1-bit alpha
  * images are not scaled but the pixels between the borders are
tiled


HTH.

-- 
Tommi Komulainen<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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