Re: [maemo-developers] eSWT/eRCP for Maemo?
Hi, Has anyone made some progress in running the eSWT in Maemo? The Eclipse newsgroup did not mention any either. Just checking if anyone keeping things silent may have something to announce :-) Thanks a lot, -- Philippe Laporte Bernd Lachner wrote: On the Eclipse eRPC newsgroup is a discussion about future GUI support for eSWT/eRCP: http://www.eclipse.org/newsportal/article.php?id=2284group=eclipse.technology.ercp#2284 Gtk is also in discussion. So I think this is also interesting for Maemo. I post the link here, because if someone is interested in eSWT/eRCP on Maemo join the Eclipse eRCP newsgroup and maybe help to get eSWT/eRCP to Gtk and Maemo. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] JamVM network prob
Hi, I've been running the GST client on the 770 with various VMs (JamVM, CACAO, SableVM, Mika) for a while and have not had problems with TCP/IP. Never tried UDP though. Make sure you setup a WLAN connection or other *before* running the program. Best Regards, -- Philippe Laporte Gatespace Telematics Första Långgatan 18 41328 Göteborg Sweden Phone: +46 702 04 35 11 Fax: +46 31 24 16 50 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Thu, 2006-06-29 at 09:56 +0300, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, have anyone tried to run any java applications with JamVM that use networking? I tried to play with http://cybergarage.org/ CyberLink for Java UPnP Development package, but I couldn't get anything to work in 770. I made a console-based UPnP device that worked fine in linux and windows, but in 770 it just didnt work. It seemed to work just fine, except that it doesn't send or receive anything; it doesn't show any exceptions or errors thou. I also made a simple program that just sends a multicast packet in IPv6 network and it works in Linux ( something like: http://www.cdt.luth.se/~peppar/java/multicast_example/ ). In 770 it gives following error: java.net.SocketException at java.net.DatagramSocket.getImpl (DatagramSocket.java:214) at java.net.DatagramSocket.setReuseAddress (DatagramSocket.java:802) at java.net.MulticastSocket.init (MulticastSocket.java:110) at java.net.MulticastSocket.init (MulticastSocket.java79) at NetTest.main (NetTest.java:48) Caused by: java.io.IOException: Socket operation on non-socket at gnu.java.net.PlainDatagramSocketImpl.create (Native Method) at java.net.DatagramSocket.getImpl (DatagramSocket.java:206) ..4 more I think it crashes in command: MulticastSocket s = new MulticastSocket(); I use 1.5.0_07 jdk in Linux and Windows and 770 is in IPv6 network and 770 is IPV6 enabled. If anyone have tried networking application in JamVM, please share your experiences :). - Juha K ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] using the 770 as plain scratchbox CPU transparency device
Hi, Suppose I want to use my 770 as a plain scratchbox CPU transparency device, and trying to save lots of RAM, what do I need to do so that none of the graphical and various services elements start up? Thanks a lot, -- Philippe Laporte ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] Maemo 2.0 beta published: old HOWTOs
Hi, Congratulations on this release! For those of us not quite ready to make the transition, where can we find the old HOWTOs, in particular the Application Installer one? Thanks, -- Philippe Laporte [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Fri, 2006-06-09 at 17:10 +0300, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Today we published the maemo 2.0 beta on http://www.maemo.org. This release includes both the maemo 2.0 beta development environment and the Internet Tablet 2006 OS Beta image. For more details about the release you can check out http://maemo.org/downloads/releases.html Have a great weekend everyone and and feel free to give feedback at https://maemo.org/bugzilla/ . On behalf of maemo team, Erkko ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] Platform Java on the 770 status
Hi, We have obtained a second 770 unit and have produced better screenshots and videos, which are available at: http://82.193.172.109/screenshots/ RedHat et al have been making constant progress on the AWT problems when running on the 770: two bugs have been closed and a new one opened: http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=27118 We will soon look into a CLDC-MIDP stack. As usual I invite all the willing to join in. Best Regards, -- Philippe Laporte Technical Director Embedded Java and OMA DM Gatespace Telematics Första Långgatan 18 41328 Göteborg Sweden Phone: +46 702 04 35 11 Fax: +46 31 24 16 50 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] gcc options for smallest size, best speed, etc
Hi, I would assume that this list be a top source for the following question: what are the compile options for ARM for gcc for the smallest possible size, etc. For both smallest size, and best speed, seperately of course. Or where should I look? Thanks, -- Philippe Laporte Software Gatespace Telematics Första Långgatan 18 41328 Göteborg Sweden Phone: +46 702 04 35 11 Fax: +46 31 24 16 50 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] Platform Java on the 770 status
Hi, Great new docs! Please find shots of Java in action on the 770 at: http://213.66.54.193/770/ You can see the AWT problems in action on the first screenshot. RedHat is on top of the problems: http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=26812 http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=26848 The second screenshot is JamVM and GNU Classpath running the GST client on top of Knopflerfish OSGi. SyncML is being dumped to the screen. The kXML (www.kxml.org) XML/WBXML engine is used. The last screenshot is after I hit the display failure (white with dim vertical stripes) HW. I heard that there was a software workaround but this turned out to be wrong. I look forward to getting my hands on another device. It is the Knopflerfish OSGi desktop running on the Nokia 770 with X redirected, on top of SableVM 1.11 and GNU Classpath Swing. GNU Classpath Swing is not yet complete :-) . The (debian)1.13 version was seg-faulting so I backtracked to 1.11. It looks much better already with 1.13 :-). The X server is FC4-something and the WM is not Matchbox. SableVM was considered an FUD by the rest of the Java community so they joined Apache Harmony as they seek no controversy. Although I have been arguing in favor of GNU against SableVM, the SableVM founder and maintainer calls these current results neat!, as can be found out when reading the full mailing list archives. Next thing to try out is eSWT. We are looking forward to running our complete client-side product suite on the 770 as it is a perfect device for it. Best Regards, -- Philippe Laporte Software Gatespace Telematics Första Långgatan 18 41328 Göteborg Sweden Phone: +46 702 04 35 11 Fax: +46 31 24 16 50 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] Apologies
Hi, My apologies for how things went yesterday. It was at no time my intention to say anyone is lying. I have new roles here since just recently and sometimes I am trying different approach tactics. This one was a definite failure, especially in the middle of a release. I am proud of the 770 and its team. Proud of Nokia. I would never want to hurt Maemo. Best Regards, -- Philippe Laporte Software Gatespace Telematics Första Långgatan 18 41328 Göteborg Sweden Phone: +46 702 04 35 11 Fax: +46 31 24 16 50 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] hacking the app db on place by combining sdk and product image
Hi, What is the quick and cleanest way to hack the app db on place by combining sdk and product image? Thanks, -- Philippe Laporte Software Gatespace Telematics Första Långgatan 18 41328 Göteborg Sweden Phone: +46 702 04 35 11 Fax: +46 31 24 16 50 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] 770 display failure workaround
Hi, I'm not quite sure why you adopt such an antagonistic attitude. I would bet you 1000 Euros, and I am not rich, that the Nokia kernel team has a workaround patch. Even though my grand plan may be evasive to some, it should be obvious thta I am trying tyo pressure Nokia into allocating time to provide the code for the patch. The reason for not having it in the device: you are convinced that if any reason would exist, you would be personaly aware of it? The LCD hasn't failed. The reference here is http://www.maemo.org/maemowiki/HowDoiBecomeRoot Regards, Philippe Laporte Software Gatespace Telematics Första Långgatan 18 41328 Göteborg Sweden Phone: +46 702 04 35 11 Fax: +46 31 24 16 50 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ed Okerson wrote: And several of us who work for Nokia have already told you, no such work around exists. If it did there would be no reason not to have it in the device already. Dealing with the costs of physically repairing a device would gladly be eliminated if there were a software fix. Unfortunately, when an LCD fails there is nothing that can be done except to replace it. So, for the last time, if it is broken, send it in for repair! Software updates can NOT fix it. Ed Hi, As you can see I nam fishing it for it. Regards, Philippe Laporte Software Gatespace Telematics Första LÃ¥nggatan 18 41328 Göteborg Sweden Phone: +46 702 04 35 11 Fax: +46 31 24 16 50 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] David Briggs wrote: Ok. So, for the second time, what is the workaround? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Philippe Laporte Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 1:11 AM To: maemo developers Subject: Re: [maemo-developers] 770 display failure workaround Hi, What I mean to say is, it's a Hardware failure...but with a software workaround...so it's a software failure not to handle the potential hardware failure. But obviously the powers that be don't agree. I say put the code in the official kernel image... Or? Regards, ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] 770 display failure workaround
Weinehall David (Nokia-M/Tampere) wrote: On ons, 2006-03-29 at 13:41 +0200, ext Philippe Laporte wrote: Hi, I'm not quite sure why you adopt such an antagonistic attitude. I would bet you 1000 Euros, and I am not rich, that the Nokia kernel team has a workaround patch. Yeah, because it's so much more profitable for Nokia to replace devices than provide a software fix. Ehrm. NOT. Just face it, you're off chart here. I give you a couple of days...keep working...until the guy who told there is a patch says there isn't I will stand by my ground. Even though my grand plan may be evasive to some, it should be obvious thta I am trying tyo pressure Nokia into allocating time to provide the code for the patch. The reason for not having it in the device: you are convinced that if any reason would exist, you would be personaly aware of it? The LCD hasn't failed. The reference here is http://www.maemo.org/maemowiki/HowDoiBecomeRoot The article you reference to quite clearly says: If you get this, there is a hardware failure in your device and you need to return it and get a replacement -- VilleRanki That failure is probably not related to any software-actions. Displays like the one of the 770 tend to break at powerup. But if yours survived the first 5 or 10 times, it should survive the rest, too In other words, the display has the highest likelihood of breaking the first few times you power cycle the device. That's when most people (well, at least the developers) enable the RD mode. People see broken display, and draw the conclusion O, broken display when I enabled RD-mode, must be a software bug. This is incorrect reasoning though. The display is faulty, not the software. Bottom line: STOP TROLLING! You are out-of-context... Oh, and PLEASE don't top-post. What does that mean? ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] 770 display failure workaround
Ed Okerson wrote: Hi, I'm not quite sure why you adopt such an antagonistic attitude. Because you have been told numerous times that what you are asking for simply does not exist. Still, you are not justified in your attitude. You should assume that I know something that I can't reveal...is that bad? I would bet you 1000 Euros, and I am not rich, that the Nokia kernel team has a workaround patch. So how do you want to send me the money? you'll still have to wait a bit so don't go spend it yet...:-) Even though my grand plan may be evasive to some, it should be obvious thta I am trying tyo pressure Nokia into allocating time to provide the code for the patch. There is no such patch, nor will there ever be. If we could generate code that fixed faulty hardware the world would indeed be a better place, but unfortunately you cannot turn lead into gold either. You will admit that some code can workaround some HW faults, no? The reason for not having it in the device: you are convinced that if any reason would exist, you would be personaly aware of it? Yes, I would. Since I am a Nokia developer on this device, and I personally had a proto with this exact failure. The fix was to replace the LCD. And it did not coincide with changing RD mode or any other significant event, it just went bad. It happens. Ok, so the reproducer is wrong. It does not mean that the workaround does not exist. The LCD hasn't failed. The reference here is http://www.maemo.org/maemowiki/HowDoiBecomeRoot The LCD did fail. It just happend to occur when they were doing something else and they drew incorrect conclusions. Alright, bad word choice on my part, but see previous. Best Regards, Philippe ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] 770 display failure workaround
Juha Yrjölä wrote: On Wed, Mar 29, 2006 at 03:25:39PM +0200, ext Philippe Laporte wrote: Because you have been told numerous times that what you are asking for simply does not exist. Still, you are not justified in your attitude. You're the one with the attitude problem. If we say there is no magic display workaround, there isn't. Everything display-related has already been merged to the public linux-omap kernel tree. Feel free to dig in. Please shut up now. Just because you want to cover your ass does not mean people have to shut up. At least not outside Nazi Germany... To help you out here I am currently having much more productive threads with more relevant people. I don't wanna continue this thread, but no one will say that I am bullshitting and get away with it. Leave Ed out of this. He's a reasonable person. ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] 770 display failure workaround
Hi, What I mean to say is, it's a Hardware failure...but with a software workaround...so it's a software failure not to handle the potential hardware failure. But obviously the powers that be don't agree. I say put the code in the official kernel image... Or? Regards, -- Philippe Laporte Software Gatespace Telematics Första Långgatan 18 41328 Göteborg Sweden Phone: +46 702 04 35 11 Fax: +46 31 24 16 50 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -- original message -- Subject:Re: [maemo-developers] 770 display failure workaround From: Ed Okerson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 27th March 2006 3:37:59 pm Hi, Does anyone have a patch for the 770 display failure? How about a kernel image? :-) Software cannot fix a hardware failure. --- i heard from a good source that it's a software failure, and of a workaround. White vertical lines, no nokia splash... ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] 770 display failure workaround
-- original message -- Subject:Re: [maemo-developers] 770 display failure workaround From: Ed Okerson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 27th March 2006 3:37:59 pm Hi, Does anyone have a patch for the 770 display failure? How about a kernel image? :-) Software cannot fix a hardware failure. --- i heard from a good source that it's a software failure, and of a workaround. White vertical lines, no nokia splash... ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[Fwd: Re: [maemo-developers] J2ME on Nokia 770]
Hi, What I'm trying to say is we should have a Wiki section with everything easily available together. I'll be on it soon. Best Regards, Philippe Original Message Subject:Re: [maemo-developers] J2ME on Nokia 770 Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 18:57:27 +0100 From: Philippe Laporte [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: maemo developers maemo-developers@maemo.org References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi, Do you have a libgcj/libgij package for maemo? Thanks, Philippe Laporte Software Gatespace Telematics Första Långgatan 18 41328 Göteborg Sweden Phone: +46 702 04 35 11 Fax: +46 31 24 16 50 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Koen Kooi wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I've read some discussion on that list about the possibility of running J2ME MIDlets on Nokia 770. As I've found, the problem is because of lack of J2ME implementation for that device. I'm an author of MicroEmulator (http://www.sf.net/projects/microemulator) - pure java CLDC/MIDP implementation. I think it would be possible to create port of MicroEmulator on Nokia 770 to fill that gap. If anyone is interesested in that please send info and I could look into more deeply. gcj now works on arm as well. regards, Koen -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) iD8DBQFEDXx0MkyGM64RGpERAiNIAKCi2M7BCOC1algXH7ebe+R2aZUtOgCdFeKK iuT1fWrmsjcEIfjFe6/xFGQ= =btld -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] J2ME on Nokia 770
Hi, Is anyone working on this currently? I might seriously look into it very soon. Thanks, Philippe Laporte Software Gatespace Telematics Första Långgatan 18 41328 Göteborg Sweden Phone: +46 702 04 35 11 Fax: +46 31 24 16 50 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tapani Pälli wrote: ext Philippe Laporte wrote: Hi, I'm forwarding this to other relevant lists as well. The 770 window manager is Matchbox: http://projects.o-hand.com/matchbox/ Is the color map problem already assigned to someone? Expose-events work in 770 normally, bug is in the application/library side, not in Matchbox. Problem with pixmap depth was solved by disabling composite extension in Xomap build (if it does not work, the problem is trivial for application side to fix just by using some other function to query colordepth instead). Best Regards, Philippe Laporte Software Gatespace Telematics Första Långgatan 18 41328 Göteborg Sweden Phone: +46 702 04 35 11 Fax: +46 31 24 16 50 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] // Tapani // Tapani Thomas Fitzsimmons wrote: Hi, On Tue, 2006-03-07 at 13:46 +0100, Clemens Eisserer wrote: Classpath's AWT of course runs on top of GTK+. Not on the 770, it has several problems but I am not experienced enough to solve them: - Expose events seem not to be sent by X or at least are not received by java. I did some debgugging and as far as I can tell no expose events are sent by X. Interesting. Does the 770 window manager allow overlapping windows or dialogs? Maybe there is no need for expose events except one on initial startup. Maybe we need to post paint events in response to something other than an expose event, when running on the 770. I'd appreciate more information on this. - When creating offscreen images they are created using 24 bit depth since GTK_RGB thinks this is best (why do we ask GTK_RGB for the default pixmap depth and do not simply use the depth the screen is running?). But 770's X server has no colormap assigned to 24-bit mode so it asserts. Yes, I think we currently assume a 24-bit colormap in the GTK peers, which is wrong. I'd like to see this fixed. - Swing propably needs to be extended to allow the virtual keyboard to send key events. How is the virtual keyboard different from a standard keyboard, from X's perspective? I don't see how Swing would be affected. Tom ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[maemo-developers] CACAO
Hi, The CACAO vm has executed the Knopflerfish OSGI (http://www.knopflerfish.org) test suite with one failure, the same as with Sable and Jam. All VMs use Classpath. No AWT tests were executed. It's nice that CACAO has so many JIT ports. We haven't done any perfomance benchmarks yet with Cacao. It'll be nice to see Cacao and libgcj become maemo packages. Best Regards, -- Philippe Laporte Software Gatespace Telematics Första Långgatan 18 41328 Göteborg Sweden Phone: +46 702 04 35 11 Fax: +46 31 24 16 50 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] J2ME on Nokia 770
Hi, I'm forwarding this to other relevant lists as well. The 770 window manager is Matchbox: http://projects.o-hand.com/matchbox/ Is the color map problem already assigned to someone? Best Regards, Philippe Laporte Software Gatespace Telematics Första Långgatan 18 41328 Göteborg Sweden Phone: +46 702 04 35 11 Fax: +46 31 24 16 50 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thomas Fitzsimmons wrote: Hi, On Tue, 2006-03-07 at 13:46 +0100, Clemens Eisserer wrote: Classpath's AWT of course runs on top of GTK+. Not on the 770, it has several problems but I am not experienced enough to solve them: - Expose events seem not to be sent by X or at least are not received by java. I did some debgugging and as far as I can tell no expose events are sent by X. Interesting. Does the 770 window manager allow overlapping windows or dialogs? Maybe there is no need for expose events except one on initial startup. Maybe we need to post paint events in response to something other than an expose event, when running on the 770. I'd appreciate more information on this. - When creating offscreen images they are created using 24 bit depth since GTK_RGB thinks this is best (why do we ask GTK_RGB for the default pixmap depth and do not simply use the depth the screen is running?). But 770's X server has no colormap assigned to 24-bit mode so it asserts. Yes, I think we currently assume a 24-bit colormap in the GTK peers, which is wrong. I'd like to see this fixed. - Swing propably needs to be extended to allow the virtual keyboard to send key events. How is the virtual keyboard different from a standard keyboard, from X's perspective? I don't see how Swing would be affected. Tom ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] J2ME on Nokia 770 (SDK)
Hej, I'm quite interested in your argument for it... Regards, Philippe Laporte Software Gatespace Telematics Första Långgatan 18 41328 Göteborg Sweden Phone: +46 702 04 35 11 Fax: +46 31 24 16 50 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fred Lefévère-Laaoide wrote: Great ! I think SWT is the way to go ! Fred [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, After little hacking I've successfully executed MIDlet on Maemo SDK using MicroEmulator. Here is screenshot of SimpleDemo MIDlet: http://www.barteo.net/microemulator/j2me-maemo.png Because of problems with AWT and Swing, I've decided to give SWT a chance (there is already support for that in MicroEmulator). Finally I've used jamvm + classpath + swt + microemulator. This is just first run and I don't know if it will run on real device. Regards, Bartek Teodorczyk ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] J2ME on Nokia 770
Hi, I have just joined this list so please forgive whatever sounds ignorant. For the choice of VM I would recommend SableVM, as with its recent refactoring I built it down to 220 K on Intel with gcc -Os etc. Check out SableVM at www.sablevm.org. We at Gatespace are the people behind Knopflerfish OSGI. I test-drove Knopflerfish's test suite with JamVM and SableVM (both use Classpath), the results were the same, and the speed was comparable. Haven't measured memory consumption yet. We target CDC, so our constraints with respect to that are less strict. Classpath's AWT of course runs on top of GTK+. I argue for Sable instead of Jam because: - Sable has a large and active community - Sable is LGPL. GPL does not work for maemo. Read why at http://sablevm.org/wiki/License_FAQ. - Sable has an almost complete JIT compiler. Someone needs to put in a build option to Classpath to make it build CLDC only, or any other profile. As for the MIDP implementation, someone is working on it (announced on the wishlist). Best Regards, Philippe Laporte Software Gatespace Telematics Första Långgatan 18 41328 Göteborg Sweden Phone: +46 702 04 35 11 Fax: +46 31 24 16 50 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Right. Most work for that port would be in: - choosing JVM, - create CLDC implementation, - create graphics support (MIDP part) to GTK+. Regards, Bartek Teodorczyk Original Message Subject: Re: [maemo-developers] J2ME on Nokia 770 From: Jesper Zuschlag [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, March 07, 2006 12:43 pm To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Sound fine. But you will not get far without a Java environment / JVM, which is exactly what we are missing on the Nokia 770. I been having plans for implementing a CLDC JVM on the 770 but I have been waiting for somebody to make 770 development on Mac OS X possible. I don't think it is possible yet. /Jesper On 07/03/2006, at 11.45, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I've read some discussion on that list about the possibility of running J2ME MIDlets on Nokia 770. As I've found, the problem is because of lack of J2ME implementation for that device. I'm an author of MicroEmulator (http://www.sf.net/projects/microemulator) - pure java CLDC/MIDP implementation. I think it would be possible to create port of MicroEmulator on Nokia 770 to fill that gap. If anyone is interesested in that please send info and I could look into more deeply. Regards, Bartek Teodorczyk ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
[Fwd: Re: [maemo-developers] J2ME on Nokia 770]
Hi, Anyone working on this, or knows anything? This is on its way to a maemo bug report, or? How can we best track this? I'm not an X guru, but seems like the Matchbox guys might be involved? - No expose events sent by X. Which means even the direct-X :-) port of Classpath AWT would not work? Is everyone with me when I say: let's make AWT work first, then we can talk about Swing? Thanks, Philippe Original Message Subject:Re: [maemo-developers] J2ME on Nokia 770 Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 13:46:16 +0100 From: Clemens Eisserer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Philippe Laporte [EMAIL PROTECTED], Classpath@gnu.org References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Classpath's AWT of course runs on top of GTK+. Not on the 770, it has several problems but I am not experienced enough to solve them: - Expose events seem not to be sent by X or at least are not received by java. I did some debgugging and as far as I can tell no expose events are sent by X. - When creating offscreen images they are created using 24 bit depth since GTK_RGB thinks this is best (why do we ask GTK_RGB for the default pixmap depth and do not simply use the depth the screen is running?). But 770's X server has no colormap assigned to 24-bit mode so it asserts. - Swing propably needs to be extended to allow the virtual keyboard to send key events. lg Clemens -- Philippe Laporte Software Gatespace Telematics Första Långgatan 18 41328 Göteborg Sweden Phone: +46 702 04 35 11 Fax: +46 31 24 16 50 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] J2ME on Nokia 770
Hi, Well the Nokia maemo team won't care until they get a product program that requires Java (that's my hunch :-) Yes, there is no reason they wouldn't do it, and we all await Nokia Maemo's coming to Java. They might be waiting for the community to put up all the basic work in the mean-time though... It all depends whether they go for MIDP or OSGI, or both. OSGI requires CDC, whereas MIDP only requires CLDC. But with such a screen size (and probably future ones as well), they can do much better than just MIDP. Then there is also the enabling of Hildon apps dev in Java. Regards, Philippe Laporte Software Gatespace Telematics Första Långgatan 18 41328 Göteborg Sweden Phone: +46 702 04 35 11 Fax: +46 31 24 16 50 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Luis Montes wrote: We could really use some direction from Nokia here. Jamvm, SableVM, GIJ, maybe even ikvm, could all likely be made to work with a subset of gnu classpath to implement CLDC 1.1 and a hildon based MIDP 2.0 But if we really want to run java effeciently, we should use the Jazelle hardware on the ARM chip. This part is not free and would require Nokia to put out the jvm. There is no reason Nokia couldn't put out the jvm and use it along with open source class libraries. Luis Philippe Laporte wrote: Hi, I have just joined this list so please forgive whatever sounds ignorant. For the choice of VM I would recommend SableVM, as with its recent refactoring I built it down to 220 K on Intel with gcc -Os etc. Check out SableVM at www.sablevm.org. We at Gatespace are the people behind Knopflerfish OSGI. I test-drove Knopflerfish's test suite with JamVM and SableVM (both use Classpath), the results were the same, and the speed was comparable. Haven't measured memory consumption yet. We target CDC, so our constraints with respect to that are less strict. Classpath's AWT of course runs on top of GTK+. I argue for Sable instead of Jam because: - Sable has a large and active community - Sable is LGPL. GPL does not work for maemo. Read why at http://sablevm.org/wiki/License_FAQ. - Sable has an almost complete JIT compiler. Someone needs to put in a build option to Classpath to make it build CLDC only, or any other profile. As for the MIDP implementation, someone is working on it (announced on the wishlist). Best Regards, Philippe Laporte Software Gatespace Telematics Första Långgatan 18 41328 Göteborg Sweden Phone: +46 702 04 35 11 Fax: +46 31 24 16 50 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Right. Most work for that port would be in: - choosing JVM, - create CLDC implementation, - create graphics support (MIDP part) to GTK+. Regards, Bartek Teodorczyk Original Message Subject: Re: [maemo-developers] J2ME on Nokia 770 From: Jesper Zuschlag [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, March 07, 2006 12:43 pm To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Sound fine. But you will not get far without a Java environment / JVM, which is exactly what we are missing on the Nokia 770. I been having plans for implementing a CLDC JVM on the 770 but I have been waiting for somebody to make 770 development on Mac OS X possible. I don't think it is possible yet. /Jesper On 07/03/2006, at 11.45, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I've read some discussion on that list about the possibility of running J2ME MIDlets on Nokia 770. As I've found, the problem is because of lack of J2ME implementation for that device. I'm an author of MicroEmulator (http://www.sf.net/projects/microemulator) - pure java CLDC/MIDP implementation. I think it would be possible to create port of MicroEmulator on Nokia 770 to fill that gap. If anyone is interesested in that please send info and I could look into more deeply. Regards, Bartek Teodorczyk ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [Jamvm-general] Re: [maemo-developers] J2ME on Nokia 770
Michael Koch wrote: On Tue, Mar 07, 2006 at 02:37:17PM +0100, Philippe Laporte wrote: If you link native to a GPL VM, then that code must also be GPL, no? That is an absolute requirement in the embedded world... That is true. But running java bytecode in with a GPL vm and loading JNI libs during that doenst render all the java/native code you run with the VM to GPL. and this context does not apply to CLDC... I don't know much about Maemo. Perhaps you should be more clear on what you really need/want to do. Maemo is the platform for the 770. It doesn't have Java support yet, but when it does it sure can manage CDC, which goes your way, but still, the big guys will want a clear picture, and in the past LGPL has been a go, and GPL a no-go. Are you saying SableVM is using FUD tactics? They seem to be believe strongly in their position... There are just two sides with different opinions. They have their opinion. FSF/GNU classpath has theirs. Well then we all want to know what Nokia's legions of lawyers have to say...:-) ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] J2ME on Nokia 770
Hi, As a embedded Java developper behind the Knopflerfish OSGI distro, I can sqay that running Swing is the last of my concerns. We'll do fine with only AWT for a start. It would be nice if these midlets all scaled...:-) But take a lok at OSGI. Nokia is deeply interested in it and some of it will make it to MIDP 3.0. Regards, Philippe Laporte Software Gatespace Telematics Första Långgatan 18 41328 Göteborg Sweden Phone: +46 702 04 35 11 Fax: +46 31 24 16 50 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Luis Montes wrote: It still would be nice to hear something from them. For all the java talk on this list over the last few months, I've yet to see a response from an @nokia email. The screen size is definetly enough to hanlde full size swing apps, it just seems that we'd be limited on the amount of internal flash to store the jvm and full class libraries. The average midlet is pretty small, but the midlet runner could use the hardware zoom buttons. There are thousands of midlets out there, that means there's suddenly thousand of apps available if the 770 had the jvm to run them. Luis Philippe Laporte wrote: Hi, Well the Nokia maemo team won't care until they get a product program that requires Java (that's my hunch :-) Yes, there is no reason they wouldn't do it, and we all await Nokia Maemo's coming to Java. They might be waiting for the community to put up all the basic work in the mean-time though... It all depends whether they go for MIDP or OSGI, or both. OSGI requires CDC, whereas MIDP only requires CLDC. But with such a screen size (and probably future ones as well), they can do much better than just MIDP. Then there is also the enabling of Hildon apps dev in Java. Regards, Philippe Laporte Software Gatespace Telematics Första Långgatan 18 41328 Göteborg Sweden Phone: +46 702 04 35 11 Fax: +46 31 24 16 50 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Luis Montes wrote: We could really use some direction from Nokia here. Jamvm, SableVM, GIJ, maybe even ikvm, could all likely be made to work with a subset of gnu classpath to implement CLDC 1.1 and a hildon based MIDP 2.0 But if we really want to run java effeciently, we should use the Jazelle hardware on the ARM chip. This part is not free and would require Nokia to put out the jvm. There is no reason Nokia couldn't put out the jvm and use it along with open source class libraries. Luis Philippe Laporte wrote: Hi, I have just joined this list so please forgive whatever sounds ignorant. For the choice of VM I would recommend SableVM, as with its recent refactoring I built it down to 220 K on Intel with gcc -Os etc. Check out SableVM at www.sablevm.org. We at Gatespace are the people behind Knopflerfish OSGI. I test-drove Knopflerfish's test suite with JamVM and SableVM (both use Classpath), the results were the same, and the speed was comparable. Haven't measured memory consumption yet. We target CDC, so our constraints with respect to that are less strict. Classpath's AWT of course runs on top of GTK+. I argue for Sable instead of Jam because: - Sable has a large and active community - Sable is LGPL. GPL does not work for maemo. Read why at http://sablevm.org/wiki/License_FAQ. - Sable has an almost complete JIT compiler. Someone needs to put in a build option to Classpath to make it build CLDC only, or any other profile. As for the MIDP implementation, someone is working on it (announced on the wishlist). Best Regards, Philippe Laporte Software Gatespace Telematics Första Långgatan 18 41328 Göteborg Sweden Phone: +46 702 04 35 11 Fax: +46 31 24 16 50 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Right. Most work for that port would be in: - choosing JVM, - create CLDC implementation, - create graphics support (MIDP part) to GTK+. Regards, Bartek Teodorczyk Original Message Subject: Re: [maemo-developers] J2ME on Nokia 770 From: Jesper Zuschlag [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, March 07, 2006 12:43 pm To: maemo-developers@maemo.org Sound fine. But you will not get far without a Java environment / JVM, which is exactly what we are missing on the Nokia 770. I been having plans for implementing a CLDC JVM on the 770 but I have been waiting for somebody to make 770 development on Mac OS X possible. I don't think it is possible yet. /Jesper On 07/03/2006, at 11.45, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, I've read some discussion on that list about the possibility of running J2ME MIDlets on Nokia 770. As I've found, the problem is because of lack of J2ME implementation for that device. I'm an author of MicroEmulator (http://www.sf.net/projects/microemulator) - pure java CLDC/MIDP implementation. I think it would be possible to create port of MicroEmulator on Nokia 770 to fill that gap. If anyone is interesested in that please send info and I could look into more deeply. Regards, Bartek Teodorczyk
Re: [Jamvm-general] Re: [maemo-developers] J2ME on Nokia 770
Philippe Laporte Software Gatespace Telematics Första Långgatan 18 41328 Göteborg Sweden Phone: +46 702 04 35 11 Fax: +46 31 24 16 50 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Weinehall David (Nokia-M/Tampere) wrote: On tis, 2006-03-07 at 15:26 +0100, ext Philippe Laporte wrote: Michael Koch wrote: On Tue, Mar 07, 2006 at 02:49:32PM +0100, Philippe Laporte wrote: Well then we all want to know what Nokia's legions of lawyers have to say...:-) I'm sure they will introduce just another opinion. ok, but what assets does FSF have to lose...? Freedom? I mean who is gonna sue FSF for some opinion? ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
Re: [maemo-developers] J2ME on Nokia 770
Kimmo Hämäläinen wrote: On Tue, 2006-03-07 at 16:51, ext Luis Montes wrote: It still would be nice to hear something from them. For all the java talk on this list over the last few months, I've yet to see a response from an @nokia email. (This is a response from @nokia email.) We cannot comment on product features, but of course Java would benefit Maemo, so it is in the minds of some Nokia people as well. However, I think the current HW limitations do not make using Java very attractive in a large scale, because we have performance problems even with plain C. We all should know the potential, not-yet-measured (?) performance issue is not the whole story at all. The real reason is probably simply that there are tons of things that could go on the 770, and Java is not a priority...for now. The powers that be can change that faster than you can expect... So in the mean time let's all work on Java for Maemo simply knowing that Java kicks ass and they won't be able to ignore it for ever...:-) Best Regards, -- Philippe Laporte Software Gatespace Telematics Första Långgatan 18 41328 Göteborg Sweden Phone: +46 702 04 35 11 Fax: +46 31 24 16 50 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ maemo-developers mailing list maemo-developers@maemo.org https://maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
