Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
Gary wrote: Yes, the N900 supports HSDPA per the specs here: http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/specifications Oh, it's finally here, my swiss army knife. They didn't forget the TV-Out this time. Great. I really hope that this time the N9xx series will last some years - with updates for the first devices! Lets imagine: In some years you have a device like the N9xx (in size) with HDMI out and internal 512 GB Flash. You record your holiday movie with that device and later plug it to your HDTV, fetch a BT mouse (maybe keyboard) and do the video cut with it. Not to mention that there will be a fully office suite inside! By then Microsoft really has to worry about Windows... Ok, you can't fool physics (useful lenses need room and it may be hard to reduce power consumption much more) but it is really nice what's possible to integrate in a single device. Would be funny if it's possible to write a small video cutting software for the N900 (with output to youtube). The new killer app! -Klaus -- Klaus Rotter * klaus at rotters dot de * www.rotters.de ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
Gary, thanks for the clarification and for sharing the info about the new Verizon Wireless (EVDO/HDSPA) modem product. Regarding Verizon Wireless plans to build out their own UMTS/HSDPA/EDGE/GSM Radio Access Network in the U.S. I expect that they will do that in the 700 mhz band where they have been awarded spectrum rights in the U.S. market. Best Regards, John Holmblad Acadia Secure Networks, LLC * * Gary wrote: sebastian maemo wrote: I would say that N900 will have HSDPA support. I cannot even imagine the contrary... Yes, the N900 supports HSDPA per the specs here: http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/specifications In my original post, I was referring to the fact that Verizon is currently developing its own UMTS/HSDPA/EDGE/GSM network and mobile devices in the U.S. Without that network, their chances of selling the iPhone next year are slim to none. q.v. http://news.vzw.com/news/2009/08/pr2009-08-12c.html -Gary ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
sebastian maemo wrote: I would say that N900 will have HSDPA support. I cannot even imagine the contrary... Yes, the N900 supports HSDPA per the specs here: http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/specifications In my original post, I was referring to the fact that Verizon is currently developing its own UMTS/HSDPA/EDGE/GSM network and mobile devices in the U.S. Without that network, their chances of selling the iPhone next year are slim to none. q.v. http://news.vzw.com/news/2009/08/pr2009-08-12c.html -Gary ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
Alexandru Cardaniuc wrote: So, why are Visor PDAs dead then ? They're no more dead than the Commodore 64, the Amiga, BeOS, OS/2, OpenVMS, etc. So long as there's a niche user base, there will be niche developers. But don't expect there to be any huge advances in technology for any of those platforms -- though there are now several ethernet cards for the C64 that didn't exist 10-27 years ago. -Gary ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On 8/31/09, Gary g...@eyetraxx.net wrote: Alexandru Cardaniuc wrote: So, why are Visor PDAs dead then ? They're no more dead than the Commodore 64, the Amiga, BeOS, OS/2, OpenVMS, etc. So long as there's a niche user base, there will be niche developers. But don't expect there to be any huge advances in technology for any of those platforms -- though there are now several ethernet cards for the C64 that didn't exist 10-27 years ago. -Gary ...And even if you do consider them dead at this point, they still were produced and supported *far* longer by Handspring/Palm than the pitiful year or so that Nokia has produced and supported each of its tablets. That is even more inexcusable because the tablets are *much* closer to a desktop in power than the Visor and first several generations of Palms ever were, and the hardware has at least an order of magnitude more potential. A device that is only produced and supported for a year should be a tip-off to users, especially after the third occurrence. My N800 was only the second iteration and it hadn't yet stopped production when I bought mine, so I didn't have that history to consult. At this point, I've learned far too much about Nokia and their tablets to jump on the N9x0 bandwagon until at least 18 months after they come to market... Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
2009/8/30 John B. Holmblad jholmb...@hotmail.com Gary, your response suggests that the initial release of the N900 will not support HSDPA. If that is the case then it would seem that the N900 will have poor network performance due to a bandwidth limitation when the device is used on mobile networks. I must be misinterpreting your remarks and I find it hard to believe that Nokia would in late 2009 release a product that does supports neither HSDPA nor EVDO. I would say that N900 will have HSDPA support. I cannot even imagine the contrary... -- Salut, Sebas ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
2009/8/20 Eugene Antimirov tur...@gmail.com Hi everyone! I'm sure all of you are eager to look at the newest N900. Here is the first review of the device by Eldar Murtazin, Russian mobile columnist. Hi, for me the big question is... Will I be able to install an XTERM application?... Will I be able to install a GNU shell, like BASH?... and even more important than that... Will I be able to login as ROOT? If not, then for me it's just another powerful PDA... -- Salut, Sebas ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
Hello, On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 10:44 AM, sebastian maemo sebastian.ma...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/8/20 Eugene Antimirov tur...@gmail.com Hi everyone! I'm sure all of you are eager to look at the newest N900. Here is the first review of the device by Eldar Murtazin, Russian mobile columnist. Hi, for me the big question is... Will I be able to install an XTERM application?... Will I be able to install a GNU shell, like BASH?... and even more important than that... Will I be able to login as ROOT? If not, then for me it's just another powerful PDA... FYI: http://flors.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/software-freedom-lovers-here-comes-maemo-5/ ;) -- Salut, Sebas ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- Valério Valério http://www.valeriovalerio.org ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
2009/8/30 Valerio Valerio vdv...@gmail.com for me the big question is... Will I be able to install an XTERM application?... Will I be able to install a GNU shell, like BASH?... and even more important than that... Will I be able to login as ROOT? If not, then for me it's just another powerful PDA... FYI: http://flors.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/software-freedom-lovers-here-comes-maemo-5/ ;) Thank you very much. Now I really think there will be a before and after the release of this gem... -- Salut, Sebas ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
[Sebastian] for me the big question is... Will I be able to install an XTERM application?... Will I be able to install a GNU shell, like BASH?... and even more important than that... Will I be able to login as ROOT? These too are deal-breakers. No shell means no go, period. No Emacs, no TeX... If not, then for me it's just another powerful PDA... It wouldn't even be that; it would simply be a useless box of junk. ///Peter ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
Peter Flynn wrote: [Sebastian] for me the big question is... Will I be able to install an XTERM application?... Will I be able to install a GNU shell, like BASH?... and even more important than that... Will I be able to login as ROOT? These too are deal-breakers. No shell means no go, period. No Emacs, no TeX... If not, then for me it's just another powerful PDA... It wouldn't even be that; it would simply be a useless box of junk. Maybe holding the unjustified vitriol until you read the reply that came *3 minutes* after the post? (and well over an hour before you posted). Especially since one of the best bits of community marketing from Quim was: $ jailbreak jailbreak: not found $ sudo gainroot # Which incidentally means you can build and install your own java interpreter. I look forward to seeing your java4maemo package; since Nokia gave you exactly what you asked for. You *do* intend to do that for the community don't you? David -- Don't worry, you'll be fine; I saw it work in a cartoon once... ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
[David] Maybe holding the unjustified vitriol until you read the reply that came *3 minutes* after the post? (and well over an hour before you posted). My apologies for the crossed wires: I'm away from base so my access is sporadic, and messages don't always arrive as promptly as one might wish. And if it came over as vitriol my apologies for that also; frustration sometimes leads to this when things which seem obvious and apparent to the dumb user (me) look radically different to the developers. Especially since one of the best bits of community marketing from Quim was: $ jailbreak jailbreak: not found $ sudo gainroot # That message doesn't appear to have made my mailbox, but it's excellent news, thanks very much. Which incidentally means you can build and install your own java interpreter. I look forward to seeing your java4maemo package; since Nokia gave you exactly what you asked for. You *do* intend to do that for the community don't you? I think this is more crossed wires, I'm afraid. I'm a user of Java applications, not a Java developer. I develop stuff that uses Java applications, among others, but I don't write Java (it's on the list to learn next year). All I was looking for was to know whether there would be an implementation of Java available that would let me run a commandline Java application like Saxon. I'm not looking for graphics, embeddability, APIs, or libraries, so I'm in a specialist minority, and it's sometimes frustratingly difficult to explain to developers the apparent simplicity of my needs, when they are justifiably much more concerned with more complex demands. ///Peter ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
Peter Flynn wrote: [David] Maybe holding the unjustified vitriol until you read the reply that came *3 minutes* after the post? (and well over an hour before you posted). My apologies for the crossed wires: I'm away from base so my access is sporadic, and messages don't always arrive as promptly as one might wish. And if it came over as vitriol my apologies for that also; frustration sometimes leads to this when things which seem obvious and apparent to the dumb user (me) look radically different to the developers. Especially since one of the best bits of community marketing from Quim was: $ jailbreak jailbreak: not found $ sudo gainroot # That message doesn't appear to have made my mailbox, but it's excellent news, thanks very much. Which incidentally means you can build and install your own java interpreter. I look forward to seeing your java4maemo package; since Nokia gave you exactly what you asked for. You *do* intend to do that for the community don't you? I think this is more crossed wires, I'm afraid. I'm a user of Java applications, not a Java developer. I develop stuff that uses Java applications, among others, but I don't write Java (it's on the list to learn next year). All I was looking for was to know whether there would be an implementation of Java available that would let me run a commandline Java application like Saxon. I'm not looking for graphics, embeddability, APIs, or libraries, so I'm in a specialist minority, and it's sometimes frustratingly difficult to explain to developers the apparent simplicity of my needs, when they are justifiably much more concerned with more complex demands. Everyone starts as a user, then slowly becomes a developer. Given your small requirements of only needing command-line Java, you have a good chance of compiling Java for Maemo and having it work for your needs. Report your success or failure to the maemo-devel list, where you might get some help from other developers. It might snowball. Jason ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
Mark, it was surely a RD cost driven decision for Nokia to not provide a version of Freemantle that would work on the N800 and N810. Of course, technically speaking, they could have done something to provide a back-port to older hardware, even if some Freemantle features had to be suppressed. Obviously, however, the Nokia management team decided that the cost of doing this was higher than the implicit cost to their market place reputation in the opinion of the relatively modest number of users of the older N series internet tablet products due to Nokia dead ending prior versions of the Internet Tablet products. It is an implicit tough luck message to those users from Nokia. Apple itself did this (and made a big mistake in my opinion) in the early 90's when, after converting over to the Power PC processor platform, they dead ended a large and enthusiastic base of converts to initial versions of the the new Power PC based product family, by not backporting the OS to that initial Power PC hardware baseline. I and my family were among those converts (although I had already been using MAC's in business for 10 years by then), and, we have not been back (to Apple) since, although I am often tempted now that Apple has converted to X64 processor architecture. Best Regards, John Holmblad Acadia Secure Networks, LLC Mark wrote: On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 3:51 PM, Garyg...@eyetraxx.net wrote: Mark wrote: That's an excuse (and a poor one), not a reason. When they never get around to actually finishing the OS or software for the N9X0, you'll be hearing I told you so... Mobile processors are is going through upgrade cycles much faster than the desktop and server processor market. 1st and 2nd gen iPhone users can't record videos like the 3 GS -- why? It's probably a matter of changing a config file to allow it on older hardware but can it handle the workload well enough that it won't furstrate a few million end users? I can run Windows 7 on a seven year old DELL notebook but do you think can play the latest video games on it? Or even games from 5-7 years ago? Probably not. So if you'd like to develop your own Freemantle port for N8X0 and N700 tablets we can all help you QA your efforts and file lots of bugs for modern software that can't run efficiently on legacy hardware. -Gary ___ That's a straw-man fallacy. If an N800 can run real Debian (and it definitely can), then leaving it out of Freemantle is inexcusable. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
Mark wolfm...@gmail.com writes: On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kevin T. Neelyktne...@astroturfgarden.com wrote: Not at all. The complaint I responded to was that Nokia would drop software updates for the N900 as soon as the next hardware came out, which it may or may not do. But it doesn't really matter because the tech moves so fast, older hardware just isn't useful anymore. Maybe the Visor is fine for you, but I no longer live in 1998 and require a bit more functionality from the portable electronics I carry around. That statement is patently untrue. The counterarguments are so obvious and plentiful that I'm not even going to start listing them. This is yet another classic example of Mark taking one comment and then turning it in a different direction to prove his point. Slinging mud is an obvious sign of someone who knows he's on the losing end of an argument. You can't defeat the facts or the logic, so you attack the character. Unfortunately, my character is irrelevant; my logic holds. Which you didn't because both my phone and my N800 can do everything the handspring visor can do. K Wrong. Neither your phone nor your N800 can be used as a consumer learning IR remote, with unlimited devices and commands, completely customizable screens, sophisticated macros and unlimited timers. (Frankly, not even the commercially available $2500.00 remotes can do any better.) Neither have the full PIM functionality, especially the tablet. Neither can be nearly as easily read outdoors in direct sunlight, or even in some artificial light. Neither has anything like the battery life, or cheap, universally available and easily replaceable batteries. Neither can be expanded with hardware modules. Certainly there are lots of things that your phone and tablet can do that the Visor can't, and their hardware's speed and power are much greater (but not more flexible), but the point here is that neither your phone nor your tablet has approached anything but a tiny portion of their potential, whereas the Visor's capability has been exploited to the nth degree. That's what makes your phone and tablet so easily replaceable (which you even said yourself). So, why are Visor PDAs dead then ? -- People always get what they ask for; the only trouble is that they never know, until they get it, what actually is that they have asked for. - Aldous Huxley ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
Gary, your response suggests that the initial release of the N900 will not support HSDPA. If that is the case then it would seem that the N900 will have poor network performance due to a bandwidth limitation when the device is used on mobile networks. I must be misinterpreting your remarks and I find it hard to believe that Nokia would in late 2009 release a product that does supports neither HSDPA nor EVDO. Also is there any built in capability to use the N900 as a tethering device (modem) between, say a netbook (Nokia;s own netbook product perhaps) and a mobile broadband data service such as I have today with my trusty old Windows Mobile handset and my RIM/blackberry. Best Regards, John Holmblad Acadia Secure Networks, LLC * * Gary wrote: Jason Edgecombe wrote: I prefer Verizon's coverage area, but they don't do GSM, :( Not yet. They're already working on a hybrid EV-DO/HSPA modem (http://tr.im/nX3C) and are moving fast on building out their HSPA buildout (http://tr.im/nX47). I've also read that some test markets will be in place by the end of this year (http://tr.im/nX5z). How else can they expect to have the iPhone next year? It's nice that the N900 has an internal SD card slot for the larger capacity cards but an easily accessible microSD card slot would probably make me and a lot of other folks happy. -Gary ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
Am Donnerstag, den 27.08.2009, 11:11 -0500 schrieb mathew: On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 15:56, Dr. Nicholas Shaw d...@docharley.com wrote: Nope. Won't run and won't be available. Well, that's a shame for Nokia, 'cause I'm not about to buy a new device unless I can verify that the various deficiencies of the N800 OS have been fixed. Also, I doubt if it's feasible for open source developers and software porters to keep buying new hardware every year for the privilege of doing unpaid work for Nokia. Hopefully it will at least be possible to run the new OS under some kind of emulator on a desktop machine. For your interest the Mer project aims to provide a community backport of Fremantle for N8x0 devices. See http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer for more information. andre -- Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 15:56, Dr. Nicholas Shaw d...@docharley.com wrote: Nope. Won't run and won't be available. Well, that's a shame for Nokia, 'cause I'm not about to buy a new device unless I can verify that the various deficiencies of the N800 OS have been fixed. Also, I doubt if it's feasible for open source developers and software porters to keep buying new hardware every year for the privilege of doing unpaid work for Nokia. Hopefully it will at least be possible to run the new OS under some kind of emulator on a desktop machine. mathew ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
Andre Klapper wrote: For your interest the Mer project aims to provide a community backport of Fremantle for N8x0 devices. See http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer for more information. andre Is support for the 900 being considered in the development of Mer? I did not see it mentioned anywhere. Nokia will eventually toss it aside as well, like the previous models, and Mer will be the only upgrade path available. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
I don't understand why that's such a big deal. *all* hardware gets tossed aside eventually. Mobile just happens more often than others because the development space is so fast. If you want something that you can keep around for a while, get a big desktop. That probably has the longest shelf-life. Still, the N900 will be more-or-less open and hackable hardware just like the N800, so continued development of other platforms will be based upon hobbyist interest, just like everything else. K On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:35 AM, sean tech.j...@myfairpoint.net wrote: Andre Klapper wrote: For your interest the Mer project aims to provide a community backport of Fremantle for N8x0 devices. See http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer for more information. andre Is support for the 900 being considered in the development of Mer? I did not see it mentioned anywhere. Nokia will eventually toss it aside as well, like the previous models, and Mer will be the only upgrade path available. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- In Vino Veritas http://rubbernecking.info ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Kevin T. Neelyktne...@astroturfgarden.com wrote: I don't understand why that's such a big deal. all hardware gets tossed aside eventually. You could not be more wrong. I'm still using my Handspring Visor Deluxe every day because it does things that *no* other device can do, even 10 years after it came out. I'm still using my 12-year-old Garmin GPS III because it still works great, is totally waterproof, has ultra-long battery life, the display is very plain and clear regardless of lighting conditions and it does some things that some newer devices don't. The devices that get tossed aside are the ones that don't have any outstanding features and so the next thing that comes along easily displaces them. The issue with the Nokia tablets is that they have so much potential, but are only living up to a tiny fraction of it because Nokia isn't giving them the attention they deserve. If Nokia would get their heads out of their behinds and *finish* the OS and software, they would blow the iPhone and all other competition out of the water for years to come. But their half-hearted attempts (and the obvious me-too OS features of Freemantle instead of concentrating on the unique strengths of the tablets) just don't cut it. Mobile just happens more often than others because the development space is so fast. No, it's because most of the manufacturers are so busy trying to copy each other instead of making truly awesome devices that the market is flooded with mediocre, interchangeable devices instead of real competition. It's become a competition of style rather than features, so of course it's subject to fads and transient trends. If you want something that you can keep around for a while, get a big desktop. That probably has the longest shelf-life. Actually, desktops probably get replaced about as often as anything else, even though they are easiest to upgrade. It's really not economically sound to upgrade (or build your own) anymore because new ones are so cheap. Still, the N900 will be more-or-less open and hackable hardware just like the N800, so continued development of other platforms will be based upon hobbyist interest, just like everything else. K And, no offense to the hobbyist developers, but the fundamental platform never gets finished, never mind the software feature set. Hobbyists only have a certain amount of time and resources to contribute, and they have far less access to the fundamental hardware and OS features than the manufacturer. It's not reasonable, as either a manufacturer or user, to expect hobbyists to finish the product for you. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Mark wolfm...@gmail.com wrote: You could not be more wrong. I'm still using my Handspring Visor Deluxe every day because it does things that *no* other device can do, When is the last time you had a software update for these devices? -- In Vino Veritas http://rubbernecking.info ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
Not at all. The complaint I responded to was that Nokia would drop software updates for the N900 as soon as the next hardware came out, which it may or may not do. But it doesn't really matter because the tech moves so fast, older hardware just isn't useful anymore. Maybe the Visor is fine for you, but I no longer live in 1998 and require a bit more functionality from the portable electronics I carry around. This is yet another classic example of Mark taking one comment and then turning it in a different direction to prove his point. Which you didn't because both my phone and my N800 can do everything the handspring visor can do. K On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:31 AM, Mark wolfm...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Kevin T. Neelyktne...@astroturfgarden.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Mark wolfm...@gmail.com wrote: You could not be more wrong. I'm still using my Handspring Visor Deluxe every day because it does things that *no* other device can do, When is the last time you had a software update for these devices? Ha ha, that's exactly my point: their software was *finished* - by the manufacturers - so current updates aren't necessary in order for them to still be useful at this late date. You walked right into that one... Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- In Vino Veritas http://rubbernecking.info ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 12:37 PM, Kevin T. Neelyktne...@astroturfgarden.com wrote: Not at all. The complaint I responded to was that Nokia would drop software updates for the N900 as soon as the next hardware came out, which it may or may not do. But it doesn't really matter because the tech moves so fast, older hardware just isn't useful anymore. Maybe the Visor is fine for you, but I no longer live in 1998 and require a bit more functionality from the portable electronics I carry around. That statement is patently untrue. The counterarguments are so obvious and plentiful that I'm not even going to start listing them. This is yet another classic example of Mark taking one comment and then turning it in a different direction to prove his point. Slinging mud is an obvious sign of someone who knows he's on the losing end of an argument. You can't defeat the facts or the logic, so you attack the character. Unfortunately, my character is irrelevant; my logic holds. Which you didn't because both my phone and my N800 can do everything the handspring visor can do. K Wrong. Neither your phone nor your N800 can be used as a consumer learning IR remote, with unlimited devices and commands, completely customizable screens, sophisticated macros and unlimited timers. (Frankly, not even the commercially available $2500.00 remotes can do any better.) Neither have the full PIM functionality, especially the tablet. Neither can be nearly as easily read outdoors in direct sunlight, or even in some artificial light. Neither has anything like the battery life, or cheap, universally available and easily replaceable batteries. Neither can be expanded with hardware modules. Certainly there are lots of things that your phone and tablet can do that the Visor can't, and their hardware's speed and power are much greater (but not more flexible), but the point here is that neither your phone nor your tablet has approached anything but a tiny portion of their potential, whereas the Visor's capability has been exploited to the nth degree. That's what makes your phone and tablet so easily replaceable (which you even said yourself). Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
Kevin T. Neely wrote: I don't understand why that's such a big deal. /all/ hardware gets tossed aside eventually. Mobile just happens more often than others because the development space is so fast. If you want something that you can keep around for a while, get a big desktop. That probably has the longest shelf-life. Still, the N900 will be more-or-less open and hackable hardware just like the N800, so continued development of other platforms will be based upon hobbyist interest, just like everything else. K True, all hardware gets tossed aside, eventually, but not as fast as some recent items, like these tablets. I bought my Palm Tungsten C, (to replace another very old Palm,) when it first came out, back in 2003 I think, and it is still in heavy use by me, because it had everything I needed right out of the box. There are/were third party add-ons I found to to make things even more useful, and later I wandered onto other things I originally had no plans for it to fill. The wireless/Internet stuff was weak, but as a PIM and more, it could be used completely right out of the box. Palm put out updates for what seemed like ages. Only recently has my Palm C started to show some age, and that is what brought me to purchasing a N800. Out of the box, the N800 is severely software crippled. It can do many things, but it does nothing really as well as it could, and should. Don't get me wrong I think it could be an excellent mobile device, but it is not, at least not like it is in its present state. I am still trying to find applications so that it will work for me so that it can ultimately replace my Palm. I had to do no such searching to put my Palm right to useful work. Also, for the price of these devices, especially if you bought them new, which I did not, they should last and be supported better than they have been. Till Palm fell into a sad state, and now took a new direction with their Pre, I would always look to them for a replacement. I would not look to them any more, and so far Nokia has not really earned that support from me either. I see many potential Maemo apps that have started that now seem in limbo. Many of these applications could have filled the holes on the tablet, but they need to mature a bit more, if they are even still being worked on. I have tried out Mer, and early signs it has potential, though I am not using it of late. Currently not enough useful apps, and far to many bugs. But that is to be expected, it is still early in the life cycle. Hopefully Mer will reach its potential, and bring software developers to create the needed applications. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Em 27-08-2009 18:27, sean escreveu: The wireless/Internet stuff was weak, but as a PIM and more, it could be used completely right out of the box. Palm put out updates for what seemed like ages. I truly hope Nokia adds a good PIN in it. Currently, my E71 is better than the N devices for that. []s Adilson. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkqW/GQACgkQ2cB5Bt7H7YCR/gCeM4muc75zcYK0wdSGriuWTNPy fn4Anjkl2UGyVFfMmBPHvGIj+jvei4DG =ZfEl -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, 2009-08-27 at 10:23 -0700, Kevin T. Neely wrote: I don't understand why that's such a big deal. all hardware gets tossed aside eventually. Mobile just happens more often than others because the development space is so fast. If you want something that you can keep around for a while, get a big desktop. That probably has the longest shelf-life. Still, the N900 will be more-or-less open and hackable hardware just like the N800, so continued development of other platforms will be based upon hobbyist interest, just like everything else. I will have to second this. I still have a 770, two n800's along with my n810. Each one has brought new and different things to the table, apparently not possible with the previous hardware. Each upgrade has made my life easier as well. While I use my n810 exclusively, all of the others get used regularly for one use or another. In the case of the 770, it's loaded with games for the kids. One of the n800's is my backup in case I break my n810. Best Regards, -- Peter Bart pe...@petertheplumber.net Peter The Plumber ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
I have to say, I'm pretty excited about the N900. That looks like Canola in the pictures. If they integrated that into the base system, the Maemo team did a very smart thing there. Looking forward to hearing more about it from Nokia World.announcements. K On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 4:58 AM, Antonio Di Cello antoniodice...@libero.itwrote: In Italian - http://rafanto.net/anteprima-nokia-n900-rx-51-con-maemo-5/ Sincerely, rafanto Hi everyone! I'm sure all of you are eager to look at the newest N900. Here is the first review of the device by Eldar Murtazin, Russian mobile columnist. In English - http://www.mobile-review.com/review/nokia-rx51-n900-en.shtml Russian version - http://www.mobile-review.com/review/nokia-rx51-n900.shtml Enjoy ;) -- Sincerely, Eugene ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users -- In Vino Veritas http://rubbernecking.info ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Em 20-08-2009 14:32, Kevin T. Neely escreveu: I have to say, I'm pretty excited about the N900. That looks like Canola in the pictures. If they integrated that into the base system, the Maemo team did a very smart thing there. Some time ago I was telling a friend that for me a perfect device would be a combination of my E71 and N810. Well, now I have it, better, will have. As soon as it hits the market, I hit my wallet :) Any clues when? []s Adilson. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkqNkc8ACgkQ2cB5Bt7H7YD+dgCg1HBX7/BJ51W4OP/a6z2FHAn9 j90AoMG2sAfD2Zzfk0TRn2UJMIEhhgVP =sK/G -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: N900/Maemo 5 review
One thing concerns me based upon earlier reviews - it appears that the size of the screen will be smaller. That may not be a big issue as it appears from the pictures that Nokia is utilizing the space better than the 810. Only time will tell. It also looks like they've added capabilities (such as tasks and calendar) that didn't exist before. I'm hoping that they've added the ability to select 12/24-hour time. Lastly, having built in phone and wireless will be a good thing. Now, if ATT has the N900 when it comes out I'll be set. If not, I'll keep using my N810. :-) Nick. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
Dr. Nicholas Shaw wrote: Now, if ATT has the N900 when it comes out I'll be set. If not, I'll keep using my N810. :-) My guess is that -- like their other mobile phone products -- if you buy direct from Nokia it won't be carrier locked. -Gary ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
Dr. Nicholas Shaw wrote: Now, if ATT has the N900 when it comes out I'll be set. If not, I'll keep using my N810. :-) My guess is that -- like their other mobile phone products -- if you buy direct from Nokia it won't be carrier locked. That is all well and good. But T-Mobile is listed as the carrier in the FCC docs for the US. One may not be able to buy it direct from Nokia in the US when it first comes out. But I have my fingers crossed. I am not quite ready to change away from ATT. E -- Erik Hovland e...@hovland.org http://hovland.org/ ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
I´m worried about the elder versions, like N8x0, that became very popular in Brazil. Will Maemo 5 support 'em and bring us more development teams, doin' basic useful stuff like a text editor and makin' N8x0 better? Now, I see it as a great gadget, but it´s too limited due the lack of softwares made especially for Maemo's. ___ Cássio Gomes de Alencar Marie von Ebner-Eschenbachhttp://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/m/marie_von_ebnereschenbac.html - Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 20:11, Dr. Nicholas Shawd...@docharley.com wrote: I'm hoping that they've added the ability to select 12/24-hour time. No need to hope, that's been known for a *long* time (over a year in fact): https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=303 And, more specifically: The clock configuration will work in Fremantle in the way Andrew described in the first comment. -- https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=303#c27 Cheers, Andrew -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:and...@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/ Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 20:21, Cassio Gomesgome...@gmail.com wrote: I´m worried about the elder versions, like N8x0, that became very popular in Brazil. Will Maemo 5 support 'em and bring us more development teams, doin' basic useful stuff like a text editor and makin' N8x0 better? No, the hardware advances in the past few years mean that supporting the OMAP2-based N8x0s would've constrained the Maemo 5 lead device too much. However, Nokia *are* supporting Mer - a community effort to rebuild Maemo on top of an Ubuntu base: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer Nokia's support here has been fantastic, and a testament to how many people there get open source. Now, I see it as a great gadget, but it´s too limited due the lack of softwares made especially for Maemo's. Well, since Mer's based on Ubuntu, thousands of packags are only an apt-get away... HTH, Andrew -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:and...@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/ Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 1:21 PM, Cassio Gomesgome...@gmail.com wrote: I´m worried about the elder versions, like N8x0, that became very popular in Brazil. Will Maemo 5 support 'em and bring us more development teams, doin' basic useful stuff like a text editor and makin' N8x0 better? Now, I see it as a great gadget, but it´s too limited due the lack of softwares made especially for Maemo's. ___ Cássio Gomes de Alencar Marie von Ebner-Eschenbach - Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. No, and when Maemo X comes along, they'll be abandoning N900 owners just like they _already_ have N770 and N8x0 owners. Once they leave the factory, any further software development for the tablets is left up to the community... And The community is already abandoning Maemo in faver of Mer... The problem with FOSS (and especially open hardware) developers is that they can never make up their minds and stick with one thing long enough to actually finish it. The next great thing comes along and everybody jumps on that bandwagon. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Eugene Antimirov tur...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone! I'm sure all of you are eager to look at the newest N900. Here is the first review of the device by Eldar Murtazin, Russian mobile columnist. In English - http://www.mobile-review.com/review/nokia-rx51-n900-en.shtml Russian version - http://www.mobile-review.com/review/nokia-rx51-n900.shtml Looks very exciting. I remember telling on this very same list that what killed the Nxx tablet series was basically that it lacked a GSM radio, in other words, a phone. Hence the device didn't fit Nokia's product line, as the phone guys saw it as an odd device not a real phone and comparisons with UMPC were unfair. One question comes to mind any idea of the amount of RAM in this device?. That would affect what kind of software we can run on it. And I'm still hoping to see Java / JavaFX on these devices sooner rather than later, despite's Nokia's dealings with the Evil Empire of Redmondia... FC ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
Erik Hovland wrote: Dr. Nicholas Shaw wrote: Now, if ATT has the N900 when it comes out I'll be set. If not, I'll keep using my N810. :-) My guess is that -- like their other mobile phone products -- if you buy direct from Nokia it won't be carrier locked. That is all well and good. But T-Mobile is listed as the carrier in the FCC docs for the US. One may not be able to buy it direct from Nokia in the US when it first comes out. But I have my fingers crossed. I am not quite ready to change away from ATT. I'm hoping there are options other than GSM. Does anyone know if GSM is the only option? I prefer Verizon's coverage area, but they don't do GSM, :( Jason ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 1:26 PM, Andrew Fleggand...@bleb.org wrote: Well, since Mer's based on Ubuntu, thousands of packags are only an apt-get away... This is propaganda and a myth. Sure, you may be able to _install_ apps from the Ubuntu repository, but whether they'll be usable on the device (or even run) is another story entirely. There are many reasons why porting is not a trivial process, and a program that works great on a PC monitor may not be usable at all on a tiny touchscreen, never mind the fundamental hardware issues. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
Am Donnerstag, den 20.08.2009, 13:28 -0600 schrieb Mark: No, and when Maemo X comes along, they'll be abandoning N900 owners just like they _already_ have N770 and N8x0 owners. Once they leave the factory, any further software development for the tablets is left up to the community... What if Nokia is part of the community? andre -- Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Fernando Cassiafcas...@gmail.com wrote: Looks very exciting. I remember telling on this very same list that what killed the Nxx tablet series was basically that it lacked a GSM radio, in other words, a phone. Hence the device didn't fit Nokia's product line, as the phone guys saw it as an odd device not a real phone and comparisons with UMPC were unfair. No, what killed the Nxx tablet series was the total lack of support, and some critical missing out-of-the-box software functionality. (Much of which I have to point out is being addressed with Maemo 5, but they are *very pointedly* not backporting it to the current tablets.) And I'm still hoping to see Java / JavaFX on these devices sooner rather than later, despite's Nokia's dealings with the Evil Empire of Redmondia... FC Good luck with that. The processing power on these things is deliberately modest, at least partly because there is a very valid power conservation issue, and Java can be sluggish even on a fast PC. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 1:51 PM, Andre Klapperaklap...@openismus.com wrote: Am Donnerstag, den 20.08.2009, 13:28 -0600 schrieb Mark: No, and when Maemo X comes along, they'll be abandoning N900 owners just like they _already_ have N770 and N8x0 owners. Once they leave the factory, any further software development for the tablets is left up to the community... What if Nokia is part of the community? andre -- Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster) That's called a token. They may provide the servers and allow the use of their name, but that's not by any means a critical contribution, and most of their contributions to the community consist of you can't have that or we won't do that or you can't do that. They certainly haven't contributed any meaningful apps other than what comes in the box. Merely being a member of the community doesn't mean anything at all. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: N900/Maemo 5 review
Unlocked would be good and would, I suspect, resolve the issue. Thanks! Nick. -Original Message- From: maemo-users-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-users-boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of Gary Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 1:14 PM To: maemo-users@maemo.org Subject: Re: N900/Maemo 5 review Dr. Nicholas Shaw wrote: Now, if ATT has the N900 when it comes out I'll be set. If not, I'll keep using my N810. :-) My guess is that -- like their other mobile phone products -- if you buy direct from Nokia it won't be carrier locked. -Gary ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Mark wolfm...@gmail.com wrote: Good luck with that. The processing power on these things is deliberately modest, at least partly because there is a very valid power conservation issue, and Java can be sluggish even on a fast PC. This is a myth. I've run Java apps on ARM CPUs since I first used the HomePod internet radio/mp3 player FIVE YEARS ago. Heck, PalmOS on my Palm Centro with the IBM J9 VM runs Java ME apps just fine, including the GMail Java client. The Centro runs a ~ 300Mhz ARM9 based CPU. FC ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
Jason Edgecombe wrote: I prefer Verizon's coverage area, but they don't do GSM, :( Not yet. They're already working on a hybrid EV-DO/HSPA modem (http://tr.im/nX3C) and are moving fast on building out their HSPA buildout (http://tr.im/nX47). I've also read that some test markets will be in place by the end of this year (http://tr.im/nX5z). How else can they expect to have the iPhone next year? It's nice that the N900 has an internal SD card slot for the larger capacity cards but an easily accessible microSD card slot would probably make me and a lot of other folks happy. -Gary ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
RE: N900/Maemo 5 review
Nope. Won't run and won't be available. Nick. -Original Message- From: maemo-users-boun...@maemo.org [mailto:maemo-users-boun...@maemo.org] On Behalf Of Scott Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 2:39 PM To: maemo-users users; maemo-commun...@maemo.org Subject: Re: N900/Maemo 5 review Is there any chance that the new OS for the N900 would run or be available for the N8x0 crowd? This seems similar to the relationship of the Apple iTouch to the iPhone where they can both run the same OS, just one is missing the phone and other minor features. -- Scott Novice user of a dusty n810 On Aug 20, 2009, at 4:15 AM, Eugene Antimirov wrote: Hi everyone! I'm sure all of you are eager to look at the newest N900. Here is the first review of the device by Eldar Murtazin, Russian mobile columnist. In English - http://www.mobile-review.com/review/nokia-rx51-n900-en.shtml Russian version - http://www.mobile-review.com/review/nokia-rx51-n900.shtml Enjoy ;) -- Sincerely, Eugene ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 21:39, Scottsc...@sw41.com wrote: Is there any chance that the new OS for the N900 would run or be available for the N8x0 crowd? No. You've four choices: 1) Keep Diablo. 2) Use and support Mer: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer (which can be considered a backport of parts of Fremantle) 3) Buy an RX-51 or subsequent Maemo device. 4) Buy a different device. just one is missing the phone and other minor features. If, by minor features, you're including the OMAP3430 processor (which is on the order of twice as fast) and 3D acceleration hardware. This is why Nokia didn't attempt at any support of Fremantle on N8x0, instead they're supporting the work the community is doing on Mer. Cheers, Andrew PS. Dropped -community, as this is all off-topic there. -- Andrew Flegg -- mailto:and...@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/ Maemo Community Council chair ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 2:19 PM, Fernando Cassiafcas...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Mark wolfm...@gmail.com wrote: Good luck with that. The processing power on these things is deliberately modest, at least partly because there is a very valid power conservation issue, and Java can be sluggish even on a fast PC. This is a myth. I've run Java apps on ARM CPUs since I first used the HomePod internet radio/mp3 player FIVE YEARS ago. Heck, PalmOS on my Palm Centro with the IBM J9 VM runs Java ME apps just fine, including the GMail Java client. The Centro runs a ~ 300Mhz ARM9 based CPU. FC As with anything, it depends on the app. Sure, small, light apps designed for cellphones will run on anything. But real Java apps are quite different. I can assure you that the Java apps that run sluggishly on my current desktop workstation will not even begin to run on your Centro. That also goes for a lot of general Web content that is not specifically designed for phones. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thursday 20 August 2009 23:23:16 Mark wrote: I personally am growing very weary of non-hot-swappable slots in devices. There really is no justification for that PITA. It's just one of many reasons I'll never give up my N800 for an N810. The N810 has a fully hot swappable slot, it will even automatically (un)mount the device if you open/close the microSD card lid. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
Mark wrote: That's an excuse (and a poor one), not a reason. When they never get around to actually finishing the OS or software for the N9X0, you'll be hearing I told you so... Mobile processors are is going through upgrade cycles much faster than the desktop and server processor market. 1st and 2nd gen iPhone users can't record videos like the 3 GS -- why? It's probably a matter of changing a config file to allow it on older hardware but can it handle the workload well enough that it won't furstrate a few million end users? I can run Windows 7 on a seven year old DELL notebook but do you think can play the latest video games on it? Or even games from 5-7 years ago? Probably not. So if you'd like to develop your own Freemantle port for N8X0 and N700 tablets we can all help you QA your efforts and file lots of bugs for modern software that can't run efficiently on legacy hardware. -Gary ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thursday 20 August 2009 23:29:21 Peter Flynn wrote: It doesn't look like the camera can be used backwards like the N800's pop-out one. That was crippled by lack of software; presumably this one is usable with Skype etc, but a pity if it can't be used as a webcam. Based on the preview, the device likely has two cameras. A forward facing 5Mpix camera, and a backwards (user) facing webcam (probably VGA res, but no solid details on that one, yet). If the 5Mpix main camera is indeed the same module as on the N97, it should also able to do VGA video. If you're thinking using either for Skype, note that there is still no version of Skype mobile that actually does video, so don't hope too much. ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Mark wolfm...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 2:19 PM, Fernando Cassiafcas...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Mark wolfm...@gmail.com wrote: Good luck with that. The processing power on these things is deliberately modest, at least partly because there is a very valid power conservation issue, and Java can be sluggish even on a fast PC. This is a myth. I've run Java apps on ARM CPUs since I first used the HomePod internet radio/mp3 player FIVE YEARS ago. Heck, PalmOS on my Palm Centro with the IBM J9 VM runs Java ME apps just fine, including the GMail Java client. The Centro runs a ~ 300Mhz ARM9 based CPU. FC As with anything, it depends on the app. Sure, small, light apps designed for cellphones will run on anything. But real Java apps are quite different. I can assure you that the Java apps that run sluggishly on my current desktop workstation will not even begin to run on your Centro. That also goes for a lot of general Web content that is not specifically designed for phones. Mark I was thinking Java ME and JavaFX Mobile. Both of which are designed to run on smartphones. FC ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thursday 20 August 2009 23:42:55 Attila Csipa wrote: The N810 has a fully hot swappable slot, it will even automatically (un)mount the device if you open/close the microSD card lid. Sorry, that was supposed to be miniSD. But it's definitely hot-swappable regardless of that :) ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 3:51 PM, Garyg...@eyetraxx.net wrote: Mark wrote: That's an excuse (and a poor one), not a reason. When they never get around to actually finishing the OS or software for the N9X0, you'll be hearing I told you so... Mobile processors are is going through upgrade cycles much faster than the desktop and server processor market. 1st and 2nd gen iPhone users can't record videos like the 3 GS -- why? It's probably a matter of changing a config file to allow it on older hardware but can it handle the workload well enough that it won't furstrate a few million end users? I can run Windows 7 on a seven year old DELL notebook but do you think can play the latest video games on it? Or even games from 5-7 years ago? Probably not. So if you'd like to develop your own Freemantle port for N8X0 and N700 tablets we can all help you QA your efforts and file lots of bugs for modern software that can't run efficiently on legacy hardware. -Gary ___ That's a straw-man fallacy. If an N800 can run real Debian (and it definitely can), then leaving it out of Freemantle is inexcusable. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Attila Csipama...@csipa.in.rs wrote: On Thursday 20 August 2009 23:23:16 Mark wrote: I personally am growing very weary of non-hot-swappable slots in devices. There really is no justification for that PITA. It's just one of many reasons I'll never give up my N800 for an N810. The N810 has a fully hot swappable slot, it will even automatically (un)mount the device if you open/close the microSD card lid. Let's see... one miniSDHC (not micro, meaning you need a micro- to miniSD adapter for it to really be useful) compared to - count 'em - two full-sized SDHC slots, both accessible without removing the battery... Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 4:19 PM, Fernando Cassiafcas...@gmail.com wrote: I was thinking Java ME and JavaFX Mobile. Both of which are designed to run on smartphones. FC Yes, because they are lite versions, not real Java, and will only run the tiny apps written especially for them. But if you're happy with that limitation in a tablet, great. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
Mark wrote: That's a straw-man fallacy. Have I somehow misrepresented your position? If not, then it's not a straw man argument or an informal fallacy. If you throw enough swap at an OS you can run anything but an I/O bound device is still bound whether it's portable or not. Unfortunately, virtual memory doesn't help much when it comes to graphics rendering. -Gary ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 4:57 PM, Garyg...@eyetraxx.net wrote: Mark wrote: That's a straw-man fallacy. Have I somehow misrepresented your position? If not, then it's not a straw man argument or an informal fallacy. If you throw enough swap at an OS you can run anything but an I/O bound device is still bound whether it's portable or not. Unfortunately, virtual memory doesn't help much when it comes to graphics rendering. -Gary Any OS worth its salt works on _completely_ different graphics processors in the same machine. When I install a new graphics card in my PC, I don't have to install a completely new OS, I just install the new graphics driver. If the OS _requires_ sophisticated 3D just to do basic stuff, then it's _extremely_ poorly designed. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Attila Csipama...@csipa.in.rs wrote: On Friday 21 August 2009 00:33:54 Mark wrote: Let's see... one miniSDHC (not micro, meaning you need a micro- to miniSD adapter for it to really be useful) compared to - count 'em - two full-sized SDHC slots, both accessible without removing the battery... Don't change subjects. You said one of the reasons you'll never give up your N800 for a N810 is because of its non-hot-swappable slot(s). The N810 has a fully hot-swappable slot, and it does not need the battery removed (or it's cover, for that matter) to swap cards. Say you prefer 2 slots over 1+1, full SD over micro/mini, that's OK, but don't imply or spread misinformation. I said _one_ reason. I never said the N810 wasn't hot-swappable (I knew perfectly well that it is), but because it is that uncommon and rapidly-fading miniSD format and only 1 slot, that alone is enough for me to give it a pass. I guess it wasn't clear the way I said it, because I started off talking about non-hot-swappable devices then went on to say why the N810 isn't an option for me. I didn't mean for it to seem like I was lumping the N810 in with that particular category. Another angle is that even if it is technically hot-swappable, if the slot isn't externally accessible without opening a major panel it's still a PITA. Yes, the N810 is still externally accessible and from the photos it appears so with the N900 as well, but many other devices these days are putting the microSD slot under the battery. Grrr... Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Fri, 2009-08-21 at 01:38 +0200, ext Mark wrote: many other devices these days are putting the microSD slot under the battery. Grrr... for the very same reason why the SIM is located there in the vast majority (all?) of phones: to prevent hot swap and simplify its management. If you were to connect the battery somehow (wires?) so that the SIM could be swapped with the phone on, interesting things would happen. It also means that the products can be cheaper since there is no need for the extra sensor to detect the swap. -- Cheers, Igor --- Igor Stoppa Maemo Software - Nokia Devices RD - Helsinki ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
Re: N900/Maemo 5 review
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 5:45 PM, Igor Stoppaigor.sto...@nokia.com wrote: On Fri, 2009-08-21 at 01:38 +0200, ext Mark wrote: many other devices these days are putting the microSD slot under the battery. Grrr... for the very same reason why the SIM is located there in the vast majority (all?) of phones: to prevent hot swap and simplify its management. If you were to connect the battery somehow (wires?) so that the SIM could be swapped with the phone on, interesting things would happen. It also means that the products can be cheaper since there is no need for the extra sensor to detect the swap. Cheers, Igor Preventing SIM hot-swap is reasonable: how many people actually have a need to *ever* swap their SIM. The only time I've ever removed the SIM from my phone is when I've got a new phone and transferred the SIM. There's also a significant security aspect to SIM cards. But generic memory cards are an entirely different matter, especially with devices that can take and view photos and other media. Mark ___ maemo-users mailing list maemo-users@maemo.org https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users
