Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 05/02/13 00:52, Felix Miata wrote: On 2013-02-04 20:27 (GMT) Barry Jackson composed: Felix Miata wrote: http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/Mdv/menu.lst.04-cldrn-gx27b.txt http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/Mdv/etc-default-grub-cldrn-gx27b.txt Only error message I recall is about vga= from Grub2 before first kernel/init messages appear. I was referring to re-testing the use of grub2-menulst2cfg again, since it works perfectly here. If you truly get errors from the grub.cfg produced by it then I would like to report this upstream. I suspect there is something slightly unusual in your menu.lst that it can't handle, so we will need both menu.lst and the output .cfg, plus any error messages that may be useful. First I did urpmi --auto-update, which raised grub2 from -16 to -17. The new grub.cfg generated by grub2-menulst2cfg is identical to the last one it made: http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/Mdv/grub.cfg.05-cldrn-gx27b.txt The two links above are unchanged. Selecting the first stanza, as before, causes: "... doing fast boot mkdir: cannot create directory '/run': File exists ... udevd[99]: could not find module by name='e1000' WARNING: Deprecated config file /etc/modprobe.conf, ... ...resume device not found (ignoring) Waiting for device /dev/root to appear...Could not find /dev/root ... Want me to fall back to /dev/by-id-yada-part21." The root device is in fact /dev/by-id-yada-part22. Since your comments earlier I have decided to split out the theme into a separate package, so that a minimal installation using grub2 will not pull in the font, image etc. I have pushed a new version that Suggests: os-prober in the meantime. urpme os-prober didn't try to remove grub2 this time. :-) So, in future an install of grub2 with --no-suggests will be without a theme or os-prober, and perform as per the modifications I suggested above. Thanks for your constructive comments Felix, :-) Hi Felix, The new grub2 package is pushed, with the theme split out from the main package which is a Suggest like os-prober. Please remove the commented THEME line in your /etc/default/grub before updating, as this is now handled by filetriggers and will possibly upset things - I had not considered that possibility (commented line) and may need to look again at how that is handled. Please see the updated README.Mageia in the package. I will now hopefully have time to report your grub2-menulst2cfg issue ;) Barry
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 2013-02-04 20:27 (GMT) Barry Jackson composed: Felix Miata wrote: http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/Mdv/menu.lst.04-cldrn-gx27b.txt http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/Mdv/etc-default-grub-cldrn-gx27b.txt Only error message I recall is about vga= from Grub2 before first kernel/init messages appear. I was referring to re-testing the use of grub2-menulst2cfg again, since it works perfectly here. If you truly get errors from the grub.cfg produced by it then I would like to report this upstream. I suspect there is something slightly unusual in your menu.lst that it can't handle, so we will need both menu.lst and the output .cfg, plus any error messages that may be useful. First I did urpmi --auto-update, which raised grub2 from -16 to -17. The new grub.cfg generated by grub2-menulst2cfg is identical to the last one it made: http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/Mdv/grub.cfg.05-cldrn-gx27b.txt The two links above are unchanged. Selecting the first stanza, as before, causes: "... doing fast boot mkdir: cannot create directory '/run': File exists ... udevd[99]: could not find module by name='e1000' WARNING: Deprecated config file /etc/modprobe.conf, ... ...resume device not found (ignoring) Waiting for device /dev/root to appear...Could not find /dev/root ... Want me to fall back to /dev/by-id-yada-part21." The root device is in fact /dev/by-id-yada-part22. Since your comments earlier I have decided to split out the theme into a separate package, so that a minimal installation using grub2 will not pull in the font, image etc. I have pushed a new version that Suggests: os-prober in the meantime. urpme os-prober didn't try to remove grub2 this time. :-) So, in future an install of grub2 with --no-suggests will be without a theme or os-prober, and perform as per the modifications I suggested above. Thanks for your constructive comments Felix, :-) -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 2013-02-04 12:23 (GMT) Barry Jackson composed: Felix Miata wrote: On 2013-02-02 10:08 (GMT) Barry Jackson composed: Felix Miata wrote: 3-Grub2 menu uses same awful spindly-looking font responsible in large part for my distaste for *buntu Yes could be a lot better, but it's mainly a choice based on licensing, probably will be improved in the future. What's wrong with nice legible BIOS native fonts? Try commenting out the line in /etc/defaults/grub #GRUB_THEME=... Done on my first edit to the file. and also temporarily rename /boot/grub2/fonts Will try to remember if again presented with graphics mode fonts, which I'm not currently getting due to either GRUB_GFXPOAYLOAD_text and/or GRUB_TERMINAL_OUTPUT=console and/or grub2-menulst2cfg. Run "grub2-mkconfig -o /boot/grub2/grub.cfg" after changing anything in /etc/deafult/grub before rebooting. Is that better for you? Will have to reserve that for after figuring out how to get stanzas sorted acceptably. For now grub2-menulst2cfg as corrected is working better. Even better is using the master bootloader to load kernel and initrd directly, but here I'm trying out Grub2 now that it has advanced to v1.0 status. 6-post ESC, startup messages are inappropriately tiny Sounds like the same issue I used to have when I was using nvidia graphics with nouveau. Using intel I don't see this. # lspci | grep VGA 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 82865G Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 02) Hmm - dunno then - I do see a drop in size which appears to happen after grub2 has handed over to the kernel. I know what's happening, figured out within several months of the kernel devs unleashing KMS into the wild. KMS responds to video= for selecting mode to use for tty framebuffers. But before KMS initializes, the kernel responds to vga= if present as it has for over a decade, replacing the default 80x25 mode with whatever mode the vga= parameter corresponds to. Absent cmdline parameter for graphics mode init theme, quiet, or other means to hide init messages, ttys are set to any supplied vga= framebuffer mode. Shortly after the vga= response, KMS kicks in and switches to the video= mode if present. If no valid video= mode is present, KMS initializes with the EDID-provided PreferredMode, which here would be specified as 1600x1200, corresponding to vga=0x31e (16 bit) or 0x31f (24 bit) if the gfxchip was unsupported by KMS. Initial Grub2 installation isn't preconfigured with with any video=, so without being kicked into a graphics init mode by Plymouth or otherwise, first tty drawing is in 80x25 mode, shortly followed by KMS initializing EDID PreferredMode 1600x1200, which is what results in the tiny text, 75 rows in a 12" vertical space, or about .16"/4.064mm per row, a bit over 11pt, which for me is about 72% of optimal height produced by 1152x864. I use a "bigger" display (21" nominal CRT) to make stuff bigger, not fit more stuff. 7-tty text is too tiny to use (same as startup messages; screen's preferred mode 1600x1200 used instead of legible mode 1152x864) Probably configurable in /etc/defaults/grub but off hand I don't know the variable name - should be in the maunual somewhere. I'm suspecting this is not a grub2 issue but I may be wrong. It's not directly. KMS is using whatever nominal size font is preconfigured for the framebuffers. Whatever physical size font results depends for its context on the EDID-provided video mode and the display's physical size. Framebuffer fonts, except on *buntu, have been preconfigured the same across all other distros I've used AFAICR since before I first began using Linux last century. Grub2's part is that there isn't an installation option here (that I remember) for the user to specify Grub2 pass a video= cmdline option if he doesn't want the EDID PreferredMode used on the ttys. KMS has been around so long I've already forgotten how Mandriva's installer was dealing with the vga= option that was the usual pre-KMS method of sizing framebuffer text. Pre-widescreen displays, vga=791 was pretty typical. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 04/02/13 19:18, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-02-04 14:27 (GMT) Barry Jackson composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
Nice in theory, but the root device is off by -1. Default menu.lst
cmdline includes root=LABEL=22cauldrn instead of UUID or device name,
which is apparently disregarded by grub 2.
Maybe a limitation of legacy_kernel.
Normally to use labels in grub2 the 'search' command is used without any
reference to the device assignment.
Like:-
menuentry 'Mageia-2 multiboot' {
search --no-floppy --label --set=root mageia-2
multiboot /boot/grub2/i386-pc/core.img
}
menuentry 'Cauldron defkernel' {
legacy_kernel '(hd0,22)/boot/vmlinuz' '(hd0,21)/boot/vmlinuz'
'root=LABEL=22cauldrn' 'splash=verbose' 'noresume' 'video=1152x864'
'vga=794' '3' ''
legacy_initrd '(hd0,22)/boot/initrd' '(hd0,21)/boot/initrd'
}
It works when I s/hd0,21/hd0,22/g.
That syntax is apparently correct, as legacy_kernel needs to know what
the original legacy command was.
I have tested here in a clean mga3 installation and it works for me.
Please re-test and if it fails again please attach the original menu.lst
and the resulting grub.cfg along with any error messages.
It's entirely unclear what "re-test" here means, unless maybe by
incorporating your immediately preceding thread response. Current
behavior of Grub2 menu overall and first grub.cfg stanza is acceptable
having used/using the following:
http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/Mdv/menu.lst.04-cldrn-gx27b.txt
http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/Mdv/etc-default-grub-cldrn-gx27b.txt
http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/Mdv/grub.cfg.06-cldrn-gx27b.txt
Only error message I recall is about vga= from Grub2 before first
kernel/init messages appear.
I was referring to re-testing the use of grub2-menulst2cfg again, since
it works perfectly here.
If you truly get errors from the grub.cfg produced by it then I would
like to report this upstream. I suspect there is something slightly
unusual in your menu.lst that it can't handle, so we will need both
menu.lst and the output .cfg, plus any error messages that may be useful.
Since your comments earlier I have decided to split out the theme into a
separate package, so that a minimal installation using grub2 will not
pull in the font, image etc.
I have pushed a new version that Suggests: os-prober in the meantime.
So, in future an install of grub2 with --no-suggests will be without a
theme or os-prober, and perform as per the modifications I suggested above.
Thanks for your constructive comments Felix,
Barry
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 2013-02-04 14:27 (GMT) Barry Jackson composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
Nice in theory, but the root device is off by -1. Default menu.lst
cmdline includes root=LABEL=22cauldrn instead of UUID or device name,
which is apparently disregarded by grub 2.
Maybe a limitation of legacy_kernel.
Normally to use labels in grub2 the 'search' command is used without any
reference to the device assignment.
Like:-
menuentry 'Mageia-2 multiboot' {
search --no-floppy --label --set=root mageia-2
multiboot /boot/grub2/i386-pc/core.img
}
menuentry 'Cauldron defkernel' {
legacy_kernel '(hd0,22)/boot/vmlinuz' '(hd0,21)/boot/vmlinuz'
'root=LABEL=22cauldrn' 'splash=verbose' 'noresume' 'video=1152x864'
'vga=794' '3' ''
legacy_initrd '(hd0,22)/boot/initrd' '(hd0,21)/boot/initrd'
}
It works when I s/hd0,21/hd0,22/g.
That syntax is apparently correct, as legacy_kernel needs to know what
the original legacy command was.
I have tested here in a clean mga3 installation and it works for me.
Please re-test and if it fails again please attach the original menu.lst
and the resulting grub.cfg along with any error messages.
It's entirely unclear what "re-test" here means, unless maybe by
incorporating your immediately preceding thread response. Current behavior of
Grub2 menu overall and first grub.cfg stanza is acceptable having used/using
the following:
http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/Mdv/menu.lst.04-cldrn-gx27b.txt
http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/Mdv/etc-default-grub-cldrn-gx27b.txt
http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/Mdv/grub.cfg.06-cldrn-gx27b.txt
Only error message I recall is about vga= from Grub2 before first kernel/init
messages appear.
--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 03/02/13 18:05, Felix Miata wrote:
Nice in theory, but the root device is off by -1. Default menu.lst
cmdline includes root=LABEL=22cauldrn instead of UUID or device name,
which is apparently disregarded by grub 2.
Maybe a limitation of legacy_kernel.
Normally to use labels in grub2 the 'search' command is used without any
reference to the device assignment.
Like:-
menuentry 'Mageia-2 multiboot' {
search --no-floppy --label --set=root mageia-2
multiboot /boot/grub2/i386-pc/core.img
}
menuentry 'Cauldron defkernel' {
legacy_kernel '(hd0,22)/boot/vmlinuz' '(hd0,21)/boot/vmlinuz'
'root=LABEL=22cauldrn' 'splash=verbose' 'noresume' 'video=1152x864'
'vga=794' '3' ''
legacy_initrd '(hd0,22)/boot/initrd' '(hd0,21)/boot/initrd'
}
It works when I s/hd0,21/hd0,22/g.
That syntax is apparently correct, as legacy_kernel needs to know what
the original legacy command was.
I have tested here in a clean mga3 installation and it works for me.
Please re-test and if it fails again please attach the original menu.lst
and the resulting grub.cfg along with any error messages.
Barry
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 03/02/13 18:05, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-02-02 10:08 (GMT) Barry Jackson composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
Good start:
1-/boot/grub2/i386-pc/core.img in a Grub Legacy stanza succeeds
Not good from then on:
1-Grub2 error message due to not finding some png file
You removed the png by using --no-suggests
One cannot remove what is not present. What I did was block installation
of packages that the grub2 package does not declare to be required.
Grub2 should not be configured to show user an error resulting from its
own installation misconfiguration. That looks like a bug.
2-25 item Grub 2.00 menu (grub.cfg:
http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/Mdv/grub.cfg.gx27b-cauldron3-1.txt ).
After selecting a selection from a master bootloader, there's no good
reason to see similar selections as in the previous menu unrelated to
the chosen selection. IOW, when not a master bootloader (i.e.
"chainloaded" via core.img, only Mageia entries attributable to selected
filesystem hosting core.img should be in this menu.
If that is what you want then:-
# urpme os-prober
Why was it installed when I did 'urpmi --no-suggests grub2' if it's not
required?
# urpme os-prober
To satisfy dependencies, the following 2 packages will be removed...
grub2-yada
os-prober-yada...
Right, sorry - I agree - I never really envisaged anyone not wanting
os-prober installed, however it should really be a Suggests - I will
change that.
However I should have pointed out that it can be disabled in
/etc/defaults/grub with
GRUB_DISABLE_OS_PROBER=true
3-Grub2 menu uses same awful spindly-looking font responsible in large
part for my distaste for *buntu
Yes could be a lot better, but it's mainly a choice based on licensing,
probably will be improved in the future.
What's wrong with nice legible BIOS native fonts?
Try commenting out the line in /etc/defaults/grub
#GRUB_THEME=...
and also temporarily rename /boot/grub2/fonts
Run "grub2-mkconfig -o /boot/grub2/grub.cfg"
after changing anything in /etc/deafult/grub before rebooting.
Is that better for you?
4-default menu selection for Cauldron causes this cmdline:
BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-prv
root=UUID=bbe8a402-5fb1-4247-b372-5bb6cff4e18c ro splash
which is nothing like the default Grub Legacy menu stanza's cmdline
result:
root=LABEL=22cauldrn splash=verbose noresume video=1152x864
vga=794 3
obviously caused by Grub2 installation disregarding content of
pre-existing menu.lst
grub2 does not pay any attention to legacy menu.lst - it's a totally
different, unrelated bootloader.
If you want grub2 to use an existing legacy menu.lst then you can use
grub2-menulst2cfg tool to create a grub.cfg from menu.lst.
Usage: grub2-menulst2cfg [INFILE [OUTFILE]]
Nice in theory, but the root device is off by -1. Default menu.lst
cmdline includes root=LABEL=22cauldrn instead of UUID or device name,
which is apparently disregarded by grub 2.
menuentry 'Cauldron defkernel' {
legacy_kernel '(hd0,22)/boot/vmlinuz' '(hd0,21)/boot/vmlinuz'
'root=LABEL=22cauldrn' 'splash=verbose' 'noresume' 'video=1152x864'
'vga=794' '3' ''
legacy_initrd '(hd0,22)/boot/initrd' '(hd0,21)/boot/initrd'
}
It works when I s/hd0,21/hd0,22/g.
That looks like an upstream bug - I will investigate.
5-semi-legible blue on black graphical progress bar instead of normal
complement of startup messages when splash=verbose
The font colours were chosen to complement the background image which
you chose not to install.
I saw no fonts in that progress bar. I asked for no progress bar.
OK remove the theme as above and set:
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="3"
... for runlevel 3 and just remove the "splash" on that line for verbose
output.
6-post ESC, startup messages are inappropriately tiny
Sounds like the same issue I used to have when I was using nvidia
graphics with nouveau.
Using intel I don't see this.
# lspci | grep VGA
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 82865G Integrated
Graphics Controller (rev 02)
Hmm - dunno then - I do see a drop in size which appears to happen after
grub2 has handed over to the kernel.
7-tty text is too tiny to use (same as startup messages; screen's
preferred mode 1600x1200 used instead of legible mode 1152x864)
Probably configurable in /etc/defaults/grub but off hand I don't know
the variable name - should be in the maunual somewhere.
I'm suspecting this is not a grub2 issue but I may be wrong.
grub2-menulst2cfg picked up the ones that work in Grub Legacy (vga=
((http://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/kernel-parameters.txt)) &
video= ((http://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/fb/modedb.txt))), which
are kernel parameters. They do the same thing loaded via Grub2 as when
loaded via Grub Legacy.
8-KDM is on tty2, the location I reserve for certain class of recurring
activities, instead of where expected on tty7
Dunno - I have never seen this.
Booting with 3 on cmdline and later doing startx or i
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 2013-02-02 10:08 (GMT) Barry Jackson composed:
Felix Miata wrote:
Good start:
1-/boot/grub2/i386-pc/core.img in a Grub Legacy stanza succeeds
Not good from then on:
1-Grub2 error message due to not finding some png file
You removed the png by using --no-suggests
One cannot remove what is not present. What I did was block installation of
packages that the grub2 package does not declare to be required. Grub2 should
not be configured to show user an error resulting from its own installation
misconfiguration. That looks like a bug.
2-25 item Grub 2.00 menu (grub.cfg:
http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/Mdv/grub.cfg.gx27b-cauldron3-1.txt ).
After selecting a selection from a master bootloader, there's no good
reason to see similar selections as in the previous menu unrelated to
the chosen selection. IOW, when not a master bootloader (i.e.
"chainloaded" via core.img, only Mageia entries attributable to selected
filesystem hosting core.img should be in this menu.
If that is what you want then:-
# urpme os-prober
Why was it installed when I did 'urpmi --no-suggests grub2' if it's not
required?
# urpme os-prober
To satisfy dependencies, the following 2 packages will be removed...
grub2-yada
os-prober-yada...
3-Grub2 menu uses same awful spindly-looking font responsible in large
part for my distaste for *buntu
Yes could be a lot better, but it's mainly a choice based on licensing,
probably will be improved in the future.
What's wrong with nice legible BIOS native fonts?
4-default menu selection for Cauldron causes this cmdline:
BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-prv
root=UUID=bbe8a402-5fb1-4247-b372-5bb6cff4e18c ro splash
which is nothing like the default Grub Legacy menu stanza's cmdline result:
root=LABEL=22cauldrn splash=verbose noresume video=1152x864 vga=794 3
obviously caused by Grub2 installation disregarding content of
pre-existing menu.lst
grub2 does not pay any attention to legacy menu.lst - it's a totally
different, unrelated bootloader.
If you want grub2 to use an existing legacy menu.lst then you can use
grub2-menulst2cfg tool to create a grub.cfg from menu.lst.
Usage: grub2-menulst2cfg [INFILE [OUTFILE]]
Nice in theory, but the root device is off by -1. Default menu.lst cmdline
includes root=LABEL=22cauldrn instead of UUID or device name, which is
apparently disregarded by grub 2.
menuentry 'Cauldron defkernel' {
legacy_kernel '(hd0,22)/boot/vmlinuz' '(hd0,21)/boot/vmlinuz'
'root=LABEL=22cauldrn' 'splash=verbose' 'noresume' 'video=1152x864' 'vga=794'
'3' ''
legacy_initrd '(hd0,22)/boot/initrd' '(hd0,21)/boot/initrd'
}
It works when I s/hd0,21/hd0,22/g.
5-semi-legible blue on black graphical progress bar instead of normal
complement of startup messages when splash=verbose
The font colours were chosen to complement the background image which
you chose not to install.
I saw no fonts in that progress bar. I asked for no progress bar.
6-post ESC, startup messages are inappropriately tiny
Sounds like the same issue I used to have when I was using nvidia
graphics with nouveau.
Using intel I don't see this.
# lspci | grep VGA
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 82865G Integrated
Graphics Controller (rev 02)
7-tty text is too tiny to use (same as startup messages; screen's
preferred mode 1600x1200 used instead of legible mode 1152x864)
Probably configurable in /etc/defaults/grub but off hand I don't know
the variable name - should be in the maunual somewhere.
grub2-menulst2cfg picked up the ones that work in Grub Legacy (vga=
((http://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/kernel-parameters.txt)) & video=
((http://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/fb/modedb.txt))), which are kernel
parameters. They do the same thing loaded via Grub2 as when loaded via Grub
Legacy.
8-KDM is on tty2, the location I reserve for certain class of recurring
activities, instead of where expected on tty7
Dunno - I have never seen this.
Booting with 3 on cmdline and later doing startx or init 5? On current boot I
used 3 on cmdline, logged in on tty2 & tty3, did startx on tty3, and found X
is running on tty3. On exiting the X session I did init 5. That put KDM on
tty1. On openSUSE & Fedora the problem is essentially the same, e.g.:
https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=768788
9-preferred initial runlevel as evidenced by menu.lst cmdline options
was not specified
Again menu.lst is nothing to do with grub2
Maybe grub2-menulst2cfg should be used instead of grub2-mkconfig when grub2
is added to a system with grub previously installed.
--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 02/02/13 05:48, Felix Miata wrote: Good start: 1-/boot/grub2/i386-pc/core.img in a Grub Legacy stanza succeeds Not good from then on: 1-Grub2 error message due to not finding some png file You removed the png by using --no-suggests 2-25 item Grub 2.00 menu (grub.cfg: http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/Mdv/grub.cfg.gx27b-cauldron3-1.txt ). After selecting a selection from a master bootloader, there's no good reason to see similar selections as in the previous menu unrelated to the chosen selection. IOW, when not a master bootloader (i.e. "chainloaded" via core.img, only Mageia entries attributable to selected filesystem hosting core.img should be in this menu. If that is what you want then:- # urpme os-prober 3-Grub2 menu uses same awful spindly-looking font responsible in large part for my distaste for *buntu Yes could be a lot better, but it's mainly a choice based on licensing, probably will be improved in the future. 4-default menu selection for Cauldron causes this cmdline: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-prv root=UUID=bbe8a402-5fb1-4247-b372-5bb6cff4e18c ro splash which is nothing like the default Grub Legacy menu stanza's cmdline result: root=LABEL=22cauldrn splash=verbose noresume video=1152x864 vga=794 3 obviously caused by Grub2 installation disregarding content of pre-existing menu.lst grub2 does not pay any attention to legacy menu.lst - it's a totally different, unrelated bootloader. If you want grub2 to use an existing legacy menu.lst then you can use grub2-menulst2cfg tool to create a grub.cfg from menu.lst. Usage: grub2-menulst2cfg [INFILE [OUTFILE]] 5-semi-legible blue on black graphical progress bar instead of normal complement of startup messages when splash=verbose The font colours were chosen to complement the background image which you chose not to install. 6-post ESC, startup messages are inappropriately tiny Sounds like the same issue I used to have when I was using nvidia graphics with nouveau. Using intel I don't see this. 7-tty text is too tiny to use (same as startup messages; screen's preferred mode 1600x1200 used instead of legible mode 1152x864) Probably configurable in /etc/defaults/grub but off hand I don't know the variable name - should be in the maunual somewhere. 8-KDM is on tty2, the location I reserve for certain class of recurring activities, instead of where expected on tty7 Dunno - I have never seen this. 9-preferred initial runlevel as evidenced by menu.lst cmdline options was not specified Again menu.lst is nothing to do with grub2 10-tty1 cleared before displaying login prompt (even after customizing /etc/systemd/sytem/getty.target.wants/getty@tty1.service with s/TTYVTDisallocate=yes/TTYVTDisallocate=no/; same problem on Rawhide & Factory; OT) Such displeasures as 1-9 are the reason why in Grub Legacy vs. Grub2 discussions I point out that Grub2 is still v1.0 software. Just how much of these observations are due to upstream decisions or yet-to-dos rather than distro implementation decisions, implementor inexperience or bugs I won't try to guess. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 2013-02-02 00:48 (GMT-0500) Felix Miata composed: # urpmi --no-suggests grub2 which installed only grub2 and os-prober, and took several minutes to complete (which the known lethargic os-prober is obviously responsible for). I added a stanza to my master bootloader to load /boot/grub2/i386-pc/core.img and rebooted, selecting the /boot/grub2/i386-pc/core.img stanza. Results: Good start: 1-/boot/grub2/i386-pc/core.img in a Grub Legacy stanza succeeds Not good from then on: 1-Grub2 error message due to not finding some png file 2-25 item Grub 2.00 menu (grub.cfg: http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/Mdv/grub.cfg.gx27b-cauldron3-1.txt ). After selecting a selection from a master bootloader, there's no good reason to see similar selections as in the previous menu unrelated to the chosen selection. IOW, when not a master bootloader (i.e. "chainloaded" via core.img, only Mageia entries attributable to selected filesystem hosting core.img should be in this menu. 3-Grub2 menu uses same awful spindly-looking font responsible in large part for my distaste for *buntu 4-default menu selection for Cauldron causes this cmdline: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-prv root=UUID=bbe8a402-5fb1-4247-b372-5bb6cff4e18c ro splash which is nothing like the default Grub Legacy menu stanza's cmdline result: root=LABEL=22cauldrn splash=verbose noresume video=1152x864 vga=794 3 obviously caused by Grub2 installation disregarding content of pre-existing menu.lst, which means 5-semi-legible blue on black graphical progress bar instead of normal complement of startup messages when splash=verbose 6-post ESC, startup messages are inappropriately tiny 7-tty text is too tiny to use (same as startup messages; screen's preferred mode 1600x1200 used instead of legible mode 1152x864) 8-KDM is on tty2, the location I reserve for certain class of recurring activities, instead of where expected on tty7 9-preferred initial runlevel as evidenced by menu.lst cmdline options was not specified 10-tty1 cleared before displaying login prompt (even after customizing /etc/systemd/sytem/getty.target.wants/getty@tty1.service with s/TTYVTDisallocate=yes/TTYVTDisallocate=no/; same problem on Rawhide & Factory; OT) Such displeasures as 1-9 are the reason why in Grub Legacy vs. Grub2 discussions I point out that Grub2 is still v1.0 software. Just how much of these observations are due to upstream decisions or yet-to-dos rather than distro implementation decisions, implementor inexperience or bugs I won't try to guess. After editing /etc/default/grub, grub2-mkconfig isn't too bright about choosing a default kernel/initrd pair: http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/Mdv/grub.cfg.04 It selected initrd-prv and vmlinuz-prv as default, which are symlinks to the previously installed kernel. Upstream still has a warning about use of vga= on cmdline, which is still valid when KMS is disabled, and when non-Plymouth user wants kernel to use specified vga= mode instead of 80x25 in the brief init period prior to KMS initialization. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 2013-01-28 19:27 (GMT) Barry Jackson composed:
Grub2 can install it's kernel in the root filesystem which can be booted
directly. Installing the grub2 package, whether during install or later
automatically builds /boot/grub/i386-pc/core.img and also creates a
grub.cfg ready for use.
Chanloading is un-necessary since an entry in menu.lst on a legacy
system will boot a grub2 Mageia system using:
title Mageia via GRUB 2
root (hdx,y)
kernel /boot/grub2/i386-pc/core.img
...as explained in the above README.Mageia
If you do it this way, you can install whatever you want as a bootloader
on the MBR, and each partition can have whatever BIOS-compliant
bootloader it wants, including grub, grub2, lilo, OS/2, DOS, or Wndows.
Yes, I use a small grub2 partition sda1 as "master".
To boot into Mageia grub2 systems I use the grub2 multiboot command:
menuentry 'Mageia-3 multi sda6' {
search --no-floppy --label --set=root mageia-3
multiboot /boot/grub2/i386-pc/core.img
}
This thread made it register in my brain for the first time that Grub2 can be
installed on the same / as Grub Legacy without interfering with it. So, on
one of my two Cauldron systems configured to my whim with Grub Legacy, I did:
# urpmi grub2
Which tried to intstall
grub2
os-prober
mageia-theme-default
mageia-theme-common
plymouth-plugin-label
plymouth-plugin-script
plymouth-system-theme
Proceed...? N
# urpmi --no-suggests grub2
which installed only grub2 and os-prober, and took several minutes to
complete (which the known lethargic os-prober is obviously responsible for).
I added a stanza to my master bootloader to load /boot/grub2/i386-pc/core.img
and rebooted, selecting the /boot/grub2/i386-pc/core.img stanza. Results:
Good start:
1-/boot/grub2/i386-pc/core.img in a Grub Legacy stanza succeeds
Not good from then on:
1-Grub2 error message due to not finding some png file
2-25 item Grub 2.00 menu (grub.cfg:
http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/Linux/Mdv/grub.cfg.gx27b-cauldron3-1.txt ). After
selecting a selection from a master bootloader, there's no good reason to see
similar selections as in the previous menu unrelated to the chosen selection.
IOW, when not a master bootloader (i.e. "chainloaded" via core.img, only
Mageia entries attributable to selected filesystem hosting core.img should be
in this menu.
3-Grub2 menu uses same awful spindly-looking font responsible in large part
for my distaste for *buntu
4-default menu selection for Cauldron causes this cmdline:
BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-prv root=UUID=bbe8a402-5fb1-4247-b372-5bb6cff4e18c
ro splash
which is nothing like the default Grub Legacy menu stanza's cmdline result:
root=LABEL=22cauldrn splash=verbose noresume video=1152x864 vga=794 3
obviously caused by Grub2 installation disregarding content of pre-existing
menu.lst, which means
5-semi-legible blue on black graphical progress bar instead of normal
complement of startup messages when splash=verbose
6-post ESC, startup messages are inappropriately tiny
7-tty text is too tiny to use (same as startup messages; screen's preferred
mode 1600x1200 used instead of legible mode 1152x864)
8-KDM is on tty2, the location I reserve for certain class of recurring
activities, instead of where expected on tty7
9-preferred initial runlevel as evidenced by menu.lst cmdline options was not
specified
10-tty1 cleared before displaying login prompt (even after customizing
/etc/systemd/sytem/getty.target.wants/getty@tty1.service with
s/TTYVTDisallocate=yes/TTYVTDisallocate=no/; same problem on Rawhide &
Factory; OT)
Such displeasures as 1-9 are the reason why in Grub Legacy vs. Grub2
discussions I point out that Grub2 is still v1.0 software. Just how much of
these observations are due to upstream decisions or yet-to-dos rather than
distro implementation decisions, implementor inexperience or bugs I won't try
to guess.
--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 31/01/13 22:02, Barry Jackson wrote: On 31/01/13 21:41, zezinho wrote: Em 31-01-2013 22:26, Maurice Batey escreveu: To be absolutely clear, I have never placed any boot-loader in any PBR on this system. *That* is the information I was after! It appears to confirm that GRUB2 does *not* need GRUB-legacy in a root partition's PBR to be able to boot it. I've just tried a Live Gnome USB install, installing GRUB2 to /dev/sda7 (so in the PBR). This failed crashing draklive installer : https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8903 Yes this is not supported, however if you read /usr/share/doc/grub2/README.Mageia or have a good read at more recent comments in #406 it will become clear ;) Oops I meant #416 ;)
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 31/01/13 21:41, zezinho wrote: Em 31-01-2013 22:26, Maurice Batey escreveu: To be absolutely clear, I have never placed any boot-loader in any PBR on this system. *That* is the information I was after! It appears to confirm that GRUB2 does *not* need GRUB-legacy in a root partition's PBR to be able to boot it. I've just tried a Live Gnome USB install, installing GRUB2 to /dev/sda7 (so in the PBR). This failed crashing draklive installer : https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8903 Yes this is not supported, however if you read /usr/share/doc/grub2/README.Mageia or have a good read at more recent comments in #406 it will become clear ;)
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
Em 31-01-2013 22:26, Maurice Batey escreveu: To be absolutely clear, I have never placed any boot-loader in any PBR on this system. *That* is the information I was after! It appears to confirm that GRUB2 does *not* need GRUB-legacy in a root partition's PBR to be able to boot it. I've just tried a Live Gnome USB install, installing GRUB2 to /dev/sda7 (so in the PBR). This failed crashing draklive installer : https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8903
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On Thu, 31 Jan 2013 17:29:13 +, James Kerr wrote: > I did answer your question: > > "MB -- does the Mageia2 installation have GRUB-Legacy in the PBR? > > JK -- No. Mageia 2's Grub boot-loader was installed to the MBR of >the boot disk." James, I do appreciate your help in this, but your reply above is confusing (after the word "no"), because: "Mageia 2's Grub boot-loader was installed to the MBR of the boot disk." seems to contradict your earlier statement: "I chose Grub2 and selected to put the boot-loader in the MBR of the boot disk, replacing the legacy grub boot-loader of Mageia2." Do you see what I mean? > To be absolutely clear, I have never placed any boot-loader in any PBR > on this system. *That* is the information I was after! It appears to confirm that GRUB2 does *not* need GRUB-legacy in a root partition's PBR to be able to boot it. (The ones I tried *did* fail, but that may have been due to a bug in GRUB2's os-prober function at the time.) Regards, -- /\/\aurice
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 31/01/2013 16:19, Maurice Batey wrote: On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 17:22:43 +, James Kerr wrote: Mageia 2's Grub boot-loader was installed to the MBR of the boot disk. But earlier you said: "On a recent install of Beta1, I chose Grub2 and selected to put the boot-loader in the MBR of the boot disk..." Then: "Grub2 created a boot menu that enables me to successfully boot the pre-existing Mageia2 installation." My question was about the pre-existing Mageia2 installation, and asked: Does that have GRUB installed in its PBR? (I ask because others have opined that GRUB2 cannot boot a GRUB Legacy install unlessthat install has GRUB installed in its PBR.) I did answer your question: "MB -- does the Mageia2 installation have GRUB-Legacy in the PBR? JK -- No. Mageia 2's Grub boot-loader was installed to the MBR of the boot disk." When I wrote "No", I meant "No" :) To be absolutely clear, I have never placed any boot-loader in any PBR on this system. Jim
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On Wed, 30 Jan 2013 17:22:43 +, James Kerr wrote: > Mageia 2's Grub boot-loader was installed to the MBR of the boot disk. But earlier you said: "On a recent install of Beta1, I chose Grub2 and selected to put the boot-loader in the MBR of the boot disk..." Then: "Grub2 created a boot menu that enables me to successfully boot the pre-existing Mageia2 installation." My question was about the pre-existing Mageia2 installation, and asked: Does that have GRUB installed in its PBR? (I ask because others have opined that GRUB2 cannot boot a GRUB Legacy install unlessthat install has GRUB installed in its PBR.) -- /\/\aurice
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 30/01/2013 11:54, Maurice Batey wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 14:39:26 +, James Kerr wrote:
Grub2 created a boot menu that enables me to
successfully boot the pre-existing Mageia2 installation.
James, does the Mageia2 installation have GRUB-Legacy in the PBR?
No. Mageia 2's Grub boot-loader was installed to the MBR of the boot disk.
What is the GRUB2 boot stanza that boots Mageia2?
This is the stanza in /boot/grub2/grub.cfg for Mageia 2:
menuentry 'linux (on /dev/sdb1)' --class gnu-linux --class gnu --class
os $menuentry_id_option
'osprober-gnulinux-/boot/vmlinuz--20599988-d027-4cd2-80c4-b834e1013a80' {
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='hd1,msdos1'
if [ x$feature_platform_search_hint = xy ]; then
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root --hint-bios=hd1,msdos1
--hint-efi=hd1,msdos1 --hint-baremetal=ahci1,msdos1
20599988-d027-4cd2-80c4-b834e1013a80
else
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root
20599988-d027-4cd2-80c4-b834e1013a80
fi
linux /boot/vmlinuz BOOT_IMAGE=linux root=LABEL=mga-root splash quiet
nokmsboot resume=UUID=a3dabcb9-c43e-4035-8bbe-576aa9c5573b vga=788
initrd /boot/initrd.img
I've attached grub.cfg, in case it's of some help.
os-prober creates a boot menu which lists the first entry from Grub's
menu.lst on the top-level Grub2 boot menu, even when the first entry in
menu.lst is not the default. As a result, in order to reach the menu
entry for Mageia 2, I have to access the second level "Advanced options"
menu.
On this system /dev/sdb is the boot disk.
Jim
#
# DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE
#
# It is automatically generated by grub2-mkconfig using templates
# from /etc/grub.d and settings from /etc/default/grub
#
### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/00_header ###
if [ -s $prefix/grubenv ]; then
load_env
fi
set default="0"
if [ x"${feature_menuentry_id}" = xy ]; then
menuentry_id_option="--id"
else
menuentry_id_option=""
fi
export menuentry_id_option
if [ "${prev_saved_entry}" ]; then
set saved_entry="${prev_saved_entry}"
save_env saved_entry
set prev_saved_entry=
save_env prev_saved_entry
set boot_once=true
fi
function savedefault {
if [ -z "${boot_once}" ]; then
saved_entry="${chosen}"
save_env saved_entry
fi
}
function load_video {
if [ x$feature_all_video_module = xy ]; then
insmod all_video
else
insmod efi_gop
insmod efi_uga
insmod ieee1275_fb
insmod vbe
insmod vga
insmod video_bochs
insmod video_cirrus
fi
}
if loadfont unicode ; then
set gfxmode=1024x768x32
load_video
insmod gfxterm
set locale_dir=$prefix/locale
set lang=en_GB
insmod gettext
fi
terminal_output gfxterm
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='hd1,msdos8'
if [ x$feature_platform_search_hint = xy ]; then
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root --hint-bios=hd1,msdos8
--hint-efi=hd1,msdos8 --hint-baremetal=ahci1,msdos8
f64c1cea-d7d7-44f6-8c3f-90d4dc886511
else
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root f64c1cea-d7d7-44f6-8c3f-90d4dc886511
fi
insmod gfxmenu
insmod png
set theme=($root)/boot/grub2/themes/maggy/theme.txt
export theme
set timeout=5
### END /etc/grub.d/00_header ###
### BEGIN /etc/grub.d/10_linux ###
menuentry 'Mageia GNU/Linux' --class mageia --class gnu-linux --class gnu
--class os $menuentry_id_option
'gnulinux-simple-f64c1cea-d7d7-44f6-8c3f-90d4dc886511' {
set gfxpayload=text
insmod gzio
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='hd1,msdos8'
if [ x$feature_platform_search_hint = xy ]; then
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root --hint-bios=hd1,msdos8
--hint-efi=hd1,msdos8 --hint-baremetal=ahci1,msdos8
f64c1cea-d7d7-44f6-8c3f-90d4dc886511
else
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root
f64c1cea-d7d7-44f6-8c3f-90d4dc886511
fi
echo'Loading Linux desktop ...'
linux /boot/vmlinuz-desktop
root=UUID=f64c1cea-d7d7-44f6-8c3f-90d4dc886511 ro splash
echo'Loading initial ramdisk ...'
initrd /boot/initrd-desktop.img
}
submenu 'Advanced options for Mageia GNU/Linux' $menuentry_id_option
'gnulinux-advanced-f64c1cea-d7d7-44f6-8c3f-90d4dc886511' {
menuentry 'Mageia GNU/Linux, with Linux desktop' --class mageia --class
gnu-linux --class gnu --class os $menuentry_id_option
'gnulinux-desktop-advanced-f64c1cea-d7d7-44f6-8c3f-90d4dc886511' {
set gfxpayload=text
insmod gzio
insmod part_msdos
insmod ext2
set root='hd1,msdos8'
if [ x$feature_platform_search_hint = xy ]; then
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root
--hint-bios=hd1,msdos8 --hint-efi=hd1,msdos8 --hint-baremetal=ahci1,msdos8
f64c1cea-d7d7-44f6-8c3f-90d4dc886511
else
search --no-floppy --fs-uuid --set=root
f64c1cea-d7d7-44f6-8c3f-90d4dc886511
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 14:39:26 +, James Kerr wrote: > Grub2 created a boot menu that enables me to > successfully boot the pre-existing Mageia2 installation. James, does the Mageia2 installation have GRUB-Legacy in the PBR? What is the GRUB2 boot stanza that boots Mageia2? -- /\/\aurice
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 14:50:06 +, Barry Jackson wrote: > I repeat - "Installing the grub2 package" Just a thought: If that package had been called e.g. "GRUB2 Add-On", I probably would have not confused it with 'GRUB2 as bootloader' -- /\/\aurice (
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
Le 29/01/2013 17:57, Maurice Batey a écrit : Is there any technical reason why 'preferably near the start of the drive'? (Or perhaps simpy advisable in case of re-partitioning?) Does it e.g. have to be a primary partition? No, but some BIOS cannot access the whole drive, and GRUB uses the BIOS to access stage1_5 files. Last time I saw this on a 2006 laptop, I had to install Lilo to be able to boot 8^[
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:08:21 +, Barry Jackson wrote: > Create a partition preferably near the start of the drive and label it > "maingrub" then: Is there any technical reason why 'preferably near the start of the drive'? (Or perhaps simpy advisable in case of re-partitioning?) Does it e.g. have to be a primary partition? Well, I suppose I could give up Mga3-cauldron in /dev/sda and install Beta2 further along the drive, so as to make /dev/sda available, but it would be simpler to add 'maingrub' after the highest existing partition. > mkdir -p /maingrub && \ > mount -L maingrub /maingrub && \ > grub2-install --root-directory=/maingrub /dev/sda Executed in any running Mageia-3-Cauldron system (with GRUB2 package installed presumably)? Looks dodgy to make MBR point to 'maingrub' before latter has a boot menu... (Presumably the thing to do is put that menu there first.) All sounds a bit nail-biting, with high risk of a boot failure! -- /\/\aurice
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 29/01/13 12:48, Frank Griffin wrote: I wasn't aware of the MBR gap. I guess you're saying that the core.img that fits in it *is* filesystem-aware ? Yes, depending on the modules built into it, which are normally correct for our purposes. Anyway, my point still stands: for anyone who just wants to have grub and grub2 partitons coexist on the same disk with either one in the MBR, chainloading will accomplish this without any downside that isn't already present in grub legacy. Yes Grub2 may be the way of the future, but to *require* it to own the MBR is just misleading. Yes, it only gives that impression. It does not need to be the primary bootloader. To demonstrate this I made a fresh install of Mageia3 with only grub legacy installed and booted from MBR. I then installed the grub2 package (nothing more) and added an entry for the grub2 bootloader to the grub legacy menu.lst. (as in the README) I then re-booted and selected the grub2 entry from the legacy menu. The grub2 menu launched and contained all my systems - including the new Mageia3. Selecting Mageia3 launched the OS. Likewise selecting Mageia2 (found automatically during install of grub2) launched that correctly. The MBR has not been touched at all since the installation of grub legacy by the Mageia installer. Note that I do not advocate this as a sensible route to multi-booting, since it takes no account of kernel updates - it is just a demonstration. Barry
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 01/28/2013 06:44 PM, Barry Jackson wrote: My limited understanding is that the code in the 512 byte PBR has to use block lists to find the core image in /boot, since it is too small to understand filesystems. This is fragile in that filesystems and file utilities may move files around on disk invalidating the block lists, and for this reason the method is discouraged. A far as I know the same potential problem exists with grub legacy. OK, we've come full circle. This is why I was used to rerunning install.sh, because historically this has been true of most bootloaders. They all have to fit in 512 bytes, and they all have to load the next stage of the boot without support for filesystems. That's why I stick with chainloading. PBRs don't move around at the whim of a filesystem, and if you do something to a root partition that repositions something critical, you just rebuild the PBR as part of it. I wasn't aware of the MBR gap. I guess you're saying that the core.img that fits in it *is* filesystem-aware ? Otherwise, it seems like you've just pushed the locate-the-next-stage vulnerability from the MBR to the MBR gap, as chainloading pushes it from the MBR to the PBR. Anyway, my point still stands: for anyone who just wants to have grub and grub2 partitons coexist on the same disk with either one in the MBR, chainloading will accomplish this without any downside that isn't already present in grub legacy. Grub2 may be the way of the future, but to *require* it to own the MBR is just misleading.
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 2013-01-29 09:29 (GMT) Barry Jackson composed: Felix Miata wrote: Does M2 have current Grub2 in backports, or would it be simple enough to install from Cauldron repos? If so, maybe if needed and pressed I could find time to try installing Grub2 to its PBR. I'm not of a mind to replace M2 there yet, and it doesn't have space for a new installation of anything until I figure out what if anything I want to do about its crowded HD. I keep my own backports of stuff that I am interested in, so I have just re-built the current grub2 packages against the current Mageia2 repos for you, you will find them here: http://mtf.no-ip.co.uk/pub/linux/barjac/distrib/2/i586/grub2-2.00-16.mga2.i586.rpm http://mtf.no-ip.co.uk/pub/linux/barjac/distrib/2/x86_64/grub2-2.00-16.mga2.x86_64.rpm I did try to address your question to the lead grub2 dev last night on irc, but he decided to go to bed at that point and suggested that I email it instead ;) Maybe you would like to mail him directly, as you understand the issue better than I do. He is Vladimir Serbinenko: mailto:phcoder!~phco...@60-124.62-81.cust.bluewin.ch I just reread all my posts in this thread having this same exact subject line as this, and see no question I posed other than the one you just answered, so I don't know what you think I ought to ask him. Note that I have a grub-de...@gnu.org subscription, so if you were to pose the "question" there I would automatically get a copy and be able to follow any ensuing dialog. Since my last post, I learned that the M2 on host t2240 I was referring to possibly installing Grub2 on is actually only reporting as M2, as its urpmi.cfg is pointing to Cauldron. So, I suppose I could just go ahead and install from Cauldron if and when time permits - after deciding whether to keep it as is WRT installed packages, switch repos to M2, or update it to Cauldron (or M3 if it's been forked already). -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 29/01/13 00:26, Felix Miata wrote: Does M2 have current Grub2 in backports, or would it be simple enough to install from Cauldron repos? If so, maybe if needed and pressed I could find time to try installing Grub2 to its PBR. I'm not of a mind to replace M2 there yet, and it doesn't have space for a new installation of anything until I figure out what if anything I want to do about its crowded HD. I keep my own backports of stuff that I am interested in, so I have just re-built the current grub2 packages against the current Mageia2 repos for you, you will find them here: http://mtf.no-ip.co.uk/pub/linux/barjac/distrib/2/i586/grub2-2.00-16.mga2.i586.rpm http://mtf.no-ip.co.uk/pub/linux/barjac/distrib/2/x86_64/grub2-2.00-16.mga2.x86_64.rpm I did try to address your question to the lead grub2 dev last night on irc, but he decided to go to bed at that point and suggested that I email it instead ;) Maybe you would like to mail him directly, as you understand the issue better than I do. He is Vladimir Serbinenko: mailto:phcoder!~phco...@60-124.62-81.cust.bluewin.ch Barry
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 2013-01-28 22:38 (GMT) Barry Jackson composed: Felix Miata wrote: On 2013-01-28 19:27 (GMT) Barry Jackson composed: So IMO all of the FUD about "you can't install grub2 to the PBR" is pointless since it's just not necessary. Maybe not all is FUD. I don't see anything in that README that describes a procedure for an OS/2 or eCS multibooter whose primary bootloader and/or bootloader of choice is IBM Boot Manager, which is prerequisite to booting OS/2 when it is installed to a logical partition (the only place I've ever installed it in the past decade). It can't be told to load a particular file on a partition, only its PBR via the simple process of selecting a partition in its setup utility for inclusion in its boot menu. It works (in effect, chainloads) fine for partitions on which Grub Legacy has been configured with the Grub Legacy setup command. The only options I see for such users is selecting a partition with Grub Legacy configured with menu.lst stanza(s) that include core.img, or configuring IBM BM as a secondary bootloader to a primary bootloader that is not installed on the MBR. Maybe. I have no OS/2 systems to test with. I think grub2 can be forced to write to the PBR (but I can't find it documented just now). Maybe you could investigate and test this and suggest an edit to the README ? Doing this justice probably requires a bigger scope than I can handle. I stopped upgrading eCS at v2.0, while in releases since then, the default eCS boot manager was changed to AiR-Boot, which is yet another problem, as it installs into the MBR track. OTOH, Gene Alexander, who is an eCS VAR, should be equipped to do this if he's willing and able to invest the time. I see he's filed 25 Mageia bugs and was a Mandriva user pre-Mageia. Not only is eCS >2.0 beyond my means (and interest), Grub Legacy took me a long time to wrap my head around, leaving me loathe to invest more than nominal time in Grub2 issues, with its extensive deviations from Grub Legacy basics, and yet youthful stage of development and documentation. I've only ever allowed Grub2 to be installed on a very few *buntu installs. I currently have Kubuntu 10.04 LTS with Grub 1.98 on its sda12 PBR booting from IBM BM on sda2 on host gx150, and I have Kubuntu 12.04 LTS with Grub 1.99 on its sda15 PBR booting from IBM BM on sda2 on host t2240. These are 13 & 11 year old and slow Intel systems. The former is i815 with Piii CPU with neither had Mandriva nor Mageia ever installed, and I like to avoid doing any more than I must with it. The newer host t2240 is a Celeron P4 @ 2.40GHz and i845G chipset I have similar but weaker aversion to use. It does have M2 with Grub Legacy on sda16 PBR booting from IBM BM (until today not booted since June). Does M2 have current Grub2 in backports, or would it be simple enough to install from Cauldron repos? If so, maybe if needed and pressed I could find time to try installing Grub2 to its PBR. I'm not of a mind to replace M2 there yet, and it doesn't have space for a new installation of anything until I figure out what if anything I want to do about its crowded HD. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 28/01/13 20:09, Frank Griffin wrote: ...this is where we disagree slightly ;) Chainloading into grub2 is not the best way, due to the block lists problem people keep mentioning and complaining about. Could you please explain why ? The whole MBR/PBR design was set up so that whatever gets loaded and receives control doesn't know which way it happened. How does grub2 break this ? My limited understanding is that the code in the 512 byte PBR has to use block lists to find the core image in /boot, since it is too small to understand filesystems. This is fragile in that filesystems and file utilities may move files around on disk invalidating the block lists, and for this reason the method is discouraged. A far as I know the same potential problem exists with grub legacy. Whether the same fragility applies to the multiboot approach I am not sure, as documentation is sparse, however grub2 developers agree that it is a valid method. Chanloading is un-necessary I don't claim that it's necessary, just that it's more desirable than requiring the MBR code to go poking around in partitons other than the one from which it was installed. If you're interested in keeping partitions functionally as separate as they can be, it just makes sense to have them booted by their own bootloaders. The MBR code cannot go poking around. It points to one location only. In the case of grub2 this is normally a copy of core.img located in the 'MBR-gap' of around 31kB (or larger depending on partitioning) below the start of the first sector. This then launches the boot menu for the system that created it, or a dedicated grub installation. If the intention is to put the bootloader in the root partition by whatever method, then it has no relation to the MBR. The intention is to boot into the system's bootloader from another primary bootloader. The bootloader built into the core.img in the system root *is* it's own, just as would be the case with chainloading, so I don't really see the distinction. Barry
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 28/01/13 20:01, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-01-28 19:27 (GMT) Barry Jackson composed:
http://svnweb.mageia.org/packages/cauldron/grub2/current/SOURCES/README.Mageia?view=markup
Chainloading into grub2 is not the best way, due to the block lists
problem people keep mentioning and complaining about.
Grub2 can install it's kernel in the root filesystem which can be booted
directly. Installing the grub2 package, whether during install or later
automatically builds /boot/grub/i386-pc/core.img and also creates a
grub.cfg ready for use.
Chanloading is un-necessary since an entry in menu.lst on a legacy
system will boot a grub2 Mageia system using:
title Mageia via GRUB 2
root (hdx,y)
kernel /boot/grub2/i386-pc/core.img
...as explained in the above README.Mageia
I use a small grub2 partition sda1 as "master".
To boot into Mageia grub2 systems I use the grub2 multiboot command:
menuentry 'Mageia-3 multi sda6' {
search --no-floppy --label --set=root mageia-3
multiboot /boot/grub2/i386-pc/core.img
}
So IMO all of the FUD about "you can't install grub2 to the PBR" is
pointless since it's just not necessary.
Maybe not all is FUD. I don't see anything in that README that describes
a procedure for an OS/2 or eCS multibooter whose primary bootloader
and/or bootloader of choice is IBM Boot Manager, which is prerequisite
to booting OS/2 when it is installed to a logical partition (the only
place I've ever installed it in the past decade). It can't be told to
load a particular file on a partition, only its PBR via the simple
process of selecting a partition in its setup utility for inclusion in
its boot menu. It works (in effect, chainloads) fine for partitions on
which Grub Legacy has been configured with the Grub Legacy setup
command. The only options I see for such users is selecting a partition
with Grub Legacy configured with menu.lst stanza(s) that include
core.img, or configuring IBM BM as a secondary bootloader to a primary
bootloader that is not installed on the MBR.
Maybe.
I have no OS/2 systems to test with.
I think grub2 can be forced to write to the PBR (but I can't find it
documented just now).
Maybe you could investigate and test this and suggest an edit to the
README ?
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:08:21 +, Barry Jackson wrote: > http://paste.kde.org/658670/ > Copy it quick I think it expires in 24 hours ;) Got it! Many thanks. -- /\/\aurice
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 01/28/2013 02:27 PM, Barry Jackson wrote: Err... # grub root (hdx,y) setup (hdx,y) quit Job done - there is no need to touch install.sh Err, [root@ftglap grub]# cat /boot/grub/install.sh grub --device-map=/boot/grub/device.map --batch < ...this is where we disagree slightly ;) Chainloading into grub2 is not the best way, due to the block lists problem people keep mentioning and complaining about. Could you please explain why ? The whole MBR/PBR design was set up so that whatever gets loaded and receives control doesn't know which way it happened. How does grub2 break this ? Chanloading is un-necessary I don't claim that it's necessary, just that it's more desirable than requiring the MBR code to go poking around in partitons other than the one from which it was installed. If you're interested in keeping partitions functionally as separate as they can be, it just makes sense to have them booted by their own bootloaders.
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 27/01/13 15:24, Maurice Batey wrote: On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 12:31:37 +, Barry Jackson wrote: my "master" grub2 grub.cfg which is in a small grub partition at the start of sda. How does one acquire a 'small grub partition'? (Just get GRUB2 package to install into an empty partition?) Yes - in a nutshell Create a partition preferably near the start of the drive and label it "maingrub" then: mkdir -p /maingrub && \ mount -L maingrub /maingrub && \ grub2-install --root-directory=/maingrub /dev/sda Now the MBR point to maingrub, but there is no menu yet. You can manually create a simple grub.cfg - there are examples in the grub2 documentation - there's a link in the README It won't be pretty, but can be made to look nice with a good colour choice. You could let grub2 create a grub.cfg to get started, but it will be over complicated and point directly to the current kernels which is no use once kernels get updated. You really need entries that multiboot (into grub2) or chainload (into legacy linux). My current grub.cfg is a bit big as I need to remove some old entries, however it may be a good reference for you. The theme references don't work - that was just experimental. http://paste.kde.org/658670/ Copy it quick I think it expires in 24 hours ;) My MBR points to this partition, so all OS's are either chainloaded or multibooted from the manually created entries in this grub.cfg Which do you have in the MBR: GRUB2 or Legacy? Grub2 - have had for the last year or so, but you could also put grub legacy in there as well since they can coexist, then simply re-write one or the other to MBR to switch ;) My limited understanding is that it is similar to chainloading but does not need embedded code in the PBR. Ah,now that's interesting! (I assume you mean 'does not need GRUB2 installed in the PBR') Yes A useful side effect is that grub legacy may be installed to the PBR and used if required, I assume you mean the PBR of the 'small grub partition'. No - I mean that since grub2 is not using the PBR, legacy can, if you wish to have them installed side by side. Mamy thanks, Barry, especially w.r.t to the 'bootloader' partition! Note that the small grub partition is never mounted and never written to by any system (unless you need to modify it of course) This means that no system can screw it up :) - only you :\
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 2013-01-28 19:27 (GMT) Barry Jackson composed:
http://svnweb.mageia.org/packages/cauldron/grub2/current/SOURCES/README.Mageia?view=markup
Chainloading into grub2 is not the best way, due to the block lists
problem people keep mentioning and complaining about.
Grub2 can install it's kernel in the root filesystem which can be booted
directly. Installing the grub2 package, whether during install or later
automatically builds /boot/grub/i386-pc/core.img and also creates a
grub.cfg ready for use.
Chanloading is un-necessary since an entry in menu.lst on a legacy
system will boot a grub2 Mageia system using:
title Mageia via GRUB 2
root (hdx,y)
kernel /boot/grub2/i386-pc/core.img
...as explained in the above README.Mageia
I use a small grub2 partition sda1 as "master".
To boot into Mageia grub2 systems I use the grub2 multiboot command:
menuentry 'Mageia-3 multi sda6' {
search --no-floppy --label --set=root mageia-3
multiboot /boot/grub2/i386-pc/core.img
}
So IMO all of the FUD about "you can't install grub2 to the PBR" is
pointless since it's just not necessary.
Maybe not all is FUD. I don't see anything in that README that describes a
procedure for an OS/2 or eCS multibooter whose primary bootloader and/or
bootloader of choice is IBM Boot Manager, which is prerequisite to booting
OS/2 when it is installed to a logical partition (the only place I've ever
installed it in the past decade). It can't be told to load a particular file
on a partition, only its PBR via the simple process of selecting a partition
in its setup utility for inclusion in its boot menu. It works (in effect,
chainloads) fine for partitions on which Grub Legacy has been configured with
the Grub Legacy setup command. The only options I see for such users is
selecting a partition with Grub Legacy configured with menu.lst stanza(s)
that include core.img, or configuring IBM BM as a secondary bootloader to a
primary bootloader that is not installed on the MBR.
--
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 21/01/13 00:01, Frank Griffin wrote:
On 01/20/2013 02:58 PM, Maurice Batey wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:04:32 +0200, Thomas Backlund wrote:
http://svnweb.mageia.org/packages/cauldron/grub2/current/SOURCES/README.Mageia?view=markup
Many thanks, Thomas!
Look, I don't don't want to restate the obvious, but you *do* realize
that in order for chainloader to work, you actually have to install the
secondary bootloader on the PBR of its owing partition ? You can't just
have installed grub on your MBR at some point in the past, then install
grub2 (or anything else, for that matter) on the MBR again, and expect
your original partitions to boot ?
In MGA install terms, and specific to the case of grub2 on the MBR
trying to boot grub on a PBR, you have to boot the grub partition (or do
the boot-elsewhere/chroot thing), modify the /boot/grub/install.sh to
not target the MBR (stage2=(hd0)) but indicate the PBR (stage2=(hd0,x))
and rerun install.sh to install grub on the PBR.
Err...
# grub
root (hdx,y)
setup (hdx,y)
quit
Job done - there is no need to touch install.sh
In terms of the install paradigm, you have to choose to install the
bootloader to the PBR (sdaX) rather than the MBR (sda). Otherwise, when
the MBR bootloader, whether grub2 or grub, boots and chains to the PBR
of the desired partition, there won't be anything there in the PBR to boot.
True, except as below...
If you need clarification on this, ask, and give specifics. The
objective of chainloading is to have each PBR (partition) behave as if
it is its own MBR. If you try to point grub2 menu entries to native
partiton grub files, or vice versa, you are just asking for trouble. The
clean way to do it is to use chainloading to link the MBR (whatever it
is) to the PBR (whatever it is), and let the PBR do the bootloading for
its own partition according to its own needs.
...this is where we disagree slightly ;)
Chainloading into grub2 is not the best way, due to the block lists
problem people keep mentioning and complaining about.
Grub2 can install it's kernel in the root filesystem which can be booted
directly. Installing the grub2 package, whether during install or later
automatically builds /boot/grub/i386-pc/core.img and also creates a
grub.cfg ready for use.
Chanloading is un-necessary since an entry in menu.lst on a legacy
system will boot a grub2 Mageia system using:
title Mageia via GRUB 2
root (hdx,y)
kernel /boot/grub2/i386-pc/core.img
...as explained in the above README.Mageia
If you do it this way, you can install whatever you want as a bootloader
on the MBR, and each partition can have whatever BIOS-compliant
bootloader it wants, including grub, grub2, lilo, OS/2, DOS, or Wndows.
Yes, I use a small grub2 partition sda1 as "master".
To boot into Mageia grub2 systems I use the grub2 multiboot command:
menuentry 'Mageia-3 multi sda6' {
search --no-floppy --label --set=root mageia-3
multiboot /boot/grub2/i386-pc/core.img
}
So IMO all of the FUD about "you can't install grub2 to the PBR" is
pointless since it's just not necessary.
My 2 cents ;)
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 12:31:37 +, Barry Jackson wrote: > my "master" grub2 grub.cfg which is in a small grub > partition at the start of sda. How does one acquire a 'small grub partition'? (Just get GRUB2 package to install into an empty partition?) > My MBR points to this partition, so all > OS's are either chainloaded or multibooted from the manually created > entries in this grub.cfg Which do you have in the MBR: GRUB2 or Legacy? > My limited understanding is that it is similar to chainloading but does > not need embedded code in the PBR. Ah,now that's interesting! (I assume you mean 'does not need GRUB2 installed in the PBR') > A useful side effect is that grub legacy may be installed to the PBR and > used if required, I assume you mean the PBR of the 'small grub partition'. Mamy thanks, Barry, especially w.r.t to the 'bootloader' partition! -- /\/\aurice
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 20/01/13 17:42, Maurice Batey wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 14:50:06 +, Barry Jackson wrote:
I repeat - "Installing the grub2 package"
OK - so you differentiate between "installing with GRUB2" and
"installing the GRUB2 packge?
I am differentiating between "# urpmi grub2" and the use of the
"grub2-install" command.
Does the former include the latter?
Or do you mean one can install with GRUB Legacy and then go on to
install the GRUB2 *package* (which presumably doesn't do anything but
make itself available for the purposes you described)?
Exactly, except that it does create a menu and builds it's kernel
(core.img) which it places in the /boot/grub2 directory ready for use.
It does no more than this and does not affect the existing MBR or PBR in
any way.
This automatically creates core.img in /boot/grub2/i386-pc/ which
allows
you to boot into it from either grub2 using the multiboot command or from
legacy, using the menu entry shown in the readme.
What/where is the 'multiboot command'?
multiboot is a grub2 command to boot using core.img directly.
Below is my entry for Mga3 in my "master" grub2 grub.cfg which is in a
small grub partition at the start of sda. My MBR points to this
partition, so all OS's are either chainloaded or multibooted from the
manually created entries in this grub.cfg
menuentry 'Mageia-3' {
search --no-floppy --label --set=root mageia-3
multiboot /boot/grub2/i386-pc/core.img
My limited understanding is that it is similar to chainloading but does
not need embedded code in the PBR. Since grub2 can read the filesystem
(with the appropriate modules loaded) it can navigate to the location of
core.img and launch it.
A useful side effect is that grub legacy may be installed to the PBR and
used if required, using:-
menuentry 'Mageia-3 {
search --no-floppy --label --set=root mageia-3
chainloader +1
}
Did you test it in Mageia as described in the README.Mageia ?
The GRUB2 I tried was from Ubuntu 12.01 and Mint 13, not Mageia.
If you add Mageia (grub2) entry to menu.lst as described and boot into
the Grub2 menu it will have all your legacy systems listed. Do they
not boot? .
Good question. The "GRUB2-to-Grub Legacy' boots I attempted via GRUB2
in the MBR all failed.
Next time I get the netbook out I will try booting a GRUB Legacy
install via a GRUB Legacy boot menu entry for booting a GRUB2 install.
(Remember, it has GRUB Legacy in the MBR.)
Yes that's fine
But I expect the result to be the same as booting GRUB legacy from
GRUB2 in the MBR.
:\
If the failure to boot was caused by a faulty GRUB2 component, as has
been suggested, then the test will have to await my installing Mageia-3
with GRUB2, which may not happen very soon.
Have fun ;)
Barry
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 21/01/13 17:36, Maurice Batey wrote: On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:04:32 +0200, Thomas Backlund wrote: http://svnweb.mageia.org/packages/cauldron/grub2/current/SOURCES/README.Mageia?view=markup Just a one query: "To install GRUB 2 to the MBR and create a menu you can use:- # grub2-install /dev/sdX" Does "create a menu" produce a boot menu (grub.cfg) containing entries for all identified already-installed distros - just as is done by the Mageia-3 distro installer? Yes
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:04:32 +0200, Thomas Backlund wrote: > http://svnweb.mageia.org/packages/cauldron/grub2/current/SOURCES/README.Mageia?view=markup Just a one query: "To install GRUB 2 to the MBR and create a menu you can use:- # grub2-install /dev/sdX" Does "create a menu" produce a boot menu (grub.cfg) containing entries for all identified already-installed distros - just as is done by the Mageia-3 distro installer? -- /\/\aurice
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
Hi, I don't personally follow much with the grub vs. grub2 debate, but this is an interesting post from the systemd list today concerning EFI/ESP based boots and how they would recommend it works: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.sysutils.systemd.devel/8165 The posts from Kay and Lennart in particular are well worth a read, but the whole thread is relevant. Col -- Colin Guthrie colin(at)mageia.org http://colin.guthr.ie/ Day Job: Tribalogic Limited http://www.tribalogic.net/ Open Source: Mageia Contributor http://www.mageia.org/ PulseAudio Hacker http://www.pulseaudio.org/ Trac Hacker http://trac.edgewall.org/
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 01/20/2013 02:58 PM, Maurice Batey wrote: On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:04:32 +0200, Thomas Backlund wrote: http://svnweb.mageia.org/packages/cauldron/grub2/current/SOURCES/README.Mageia?view=markup Many thanks, Thomas! Look, I don't don't want to restate the obvious, but you *do* realize that in order for chainloader to work, you actually have to install the secondary bootloader on the PBR of its owing partition ? You can't just have installed grub on your MBR at some point in the past, then install grub2 (or anything else, for that matter) on the MBR again, and expect your original partitions to boot ? In MGA install terms, and specific to the case of grub2 on the MBR trying to boot grub on a PBR, you have to boot the grub partition (or do the boot-elsewhere/chroot thing), modify the /boot/grub/install.sh to not target the MBR (stage2=(hd0)) but indicate the PBR (stage2=(hd0,x)) and rerun install.sh to install grub on the PBR. In terms of the install paradigm, you have to choose to install the bootloader to the PBR (sdaX) rather than the MBR (sda). Otherwise, when the MBR bootloader, whether grub2 or grub, boots and chains to the PBR of the desired partition, there won't be anything there in the PBR to boot. If you need clarification on this, ask, and give specifics. The objective of chainloading is to have each PBR (partition) behave as if it is its own MBR. If you try to point grub2 menu entries to native partiton grub files, or vice versa, you are just asking for trouble. The clean way to do it is to use chainloading to link the MBR (whatever it is) to the PBR (whatever it is), and let the PBR do the bootloading for its own partition according to its own needs. If you do it this way, you can install whatever you want as a bootloader on the MBR, and each partition can have whatever BIOS-compliant bootloader it wants, including grub, grub2, lilo, OS/2, DOS, or Wndows.
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 20:04:32 +0200, Thomas Backlund wrote: > http://svnweb.mageia.org/packages/cauldron/grub2/current/SOURCES/README.Mageia?view=markup Many thanks, Thomas! -- /\/\aurice
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
Maurice Batey skrev 20.1.2013 19:59: On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 23:04:13 +, Barry Jackson wrote: Have any of you actually installed grub2 in Cauldron and read /usr/share/doc/grub2/README.Mageia and then actually tried it? No, only Ubuntu 12.01 & Mint 13. Can you provide e.g. a URL where I can find the text you refer to, please, Barry? http://svnweb.mageia.org/packages/cauldron/grub2/current/SOURCES/README.Mageia?view=markup -- Thomas
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 23:04:13 +, Barry Jackson wrote: > Have any of you actually installed grub2 in Cauldron and read > /usr/share/doc/grub2/README.Mageia and then actually tried it? No, only Ubuntu 12.01 & Mint 13. Can you provide e.g. a URL where I can find the text you refer to, please, Barry? -- /\/\aurice
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 14:39:26 +, James Kerr wrote: > Grub2 created a boot menu that enables me to > successfully boot the pre-existing Mageia2 installation. Now that sounds promising! With a trip away from base coming up, I don't want to do any such installing on the netbook for the time being, but at least when Mageia-Official appears I will indeed do a fresh install (with GRUB2), to replace Ubuntu (which I hate - apart from the fact that it handles the Broadcmm WiFi 'out of the box'). -- /\/\aurice
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 14:50:06 +, Barry Jackson wrote: > I repeat - "Installing the grub2 package" OK - so you differentiate between "installing with GRUB2" and "installing the GRUB2 packge? Does the former include the latter? Or do you mean one can install with GRUB Legacy and then go on to install the GRUB2 *package* (which presumably doesn't do anything but make itself available for the purposes you described)? > This automatically creates core.img in /boot/grub2/i386-pc/ which > allows > you to boot into it from either grub2 using the multiboot command or from > legacy, using the menu entry shown in the readme. What/where is the 'multiboot command'? > Did you test it in Mageia as described in the README.Mageia ? The GRUB2 I tried was from Ubuntu 12.01 and Mint 13, not Mageia. > If you add Mageia (grub2) entry to menu.lst as described and boot into > the Grub2 menu it will have all your legacy systems listed. Do they > not boot? . Good question. The "GRUB2-to-Grub Legacy' boots I attempted via GRUB2 in the MBR all failed. Next time I get the netbook out I will try booting a GRUB Legacy install via a GRUB Legacy boot menu entry for booting a GRUB2 install. (Remember, it has GRUB Legacy in the MBR.) But I expect the result to be the same as booting GRUB legacy from GRUB2 in the MBR. If the failure to boot was caused by a faulty GRUB2 component, as has been suggested, then the test will have to await my installing Mageia-3 with GRUB2, which may not happen very soon. -- /\/\aurice
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 15:36:36 +, Barry Jackson wrote: > Much bad press was caused by a nasty bug > in os-prober which broke multi-booting of legacy installations from grub2 > - it was fixed in 1.53 Maybe that's what I hit when trying Ubuntu 12.01, and maybe not. Who knows? Discovery will have to await my next try with GRUB2, but that might be a while yet. The GRUB2 mechanism is so obtuse as to be a deterrent, but there may be circumstances when it can't be avoided. -- /\/\aurice
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 19/01/13 11:42, André Salaün wrote: So it'is a fud launched by grub2 developpers when they recommend installing it only on the MBR. No not at all, done that way it is open to the filesystem moving the files and breaking the boot. The same is apparently true in legacy, but it rarely poses a problem. What I am saying is that I don't see this as a limitation. If core.img is placed in the filesystem, as is done when our grub2 (package) is installed, and if the primary bootloader can read that filesystem (i.e. has the correct modules loaded) then it can find, read and multiboot using that core.img. See README.Mageia in the grub2 package. Since the apparition of grub2 all that is almost unclear. Yes - documentation has not been a strong point of grub2 in the past but it has improved dramatically in recent months. Lack of communication or understandability I don't know but the fact is that grub2 is a problem for many users. Most of those user reports are old - many bugs have been fixed and features have improved recently. Much bad press was caused by a nasty bug in os-prober which broke multi-booting of legacy installations from grub2 - it was fixed in 1.53 which was the version we originally imported. If we add EFI UEFI (of course not linux fault) it is a easyless installing one or different Gnu/linux systems than 3 years ago. True - we do also have a grub2-efi which has had limited testing, however I know nothing about efi :/ But perhaps I am a stupid linux user since 13 or 14 years and I should have to buy Apple product or W8 ;-) :)
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 20/01/13 13:30, Maurice Batey wrote: On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 13:08:57 +, Barry Jackson wrote: Installing the grub2 package will not impact your current bootloader in any way. Installing GRUB2 where, Barry? (MBR or Root partition?) I repeat - "Installing the grub2 package" This automatically creates core.img in /boot/grub2/i386-pc/ which allows you to boot into it from either grub2 using the multiboot command or from legacy, using the menu entry shown in the readme. If - as I did with Ubuntu 12.01 - GRUB2 goes into the MBR, then I can no longer boot from its menu into a GRUB Legacy install, a I said earlier (despite the GRUB2 boot menu purporting to do so). Works for me. Once it's installed read /usr/share/doc/grub2/README.Mageia to find how to add an entry to your existing menu.lst to boot into the new grub2 menu from your existing legacy grub. As I said earlier, I already know how to do that. What I still don't know (and still no one has described!) is how to get a GRUB2 boot menu to successfullly boot a GRUB Legacy install. Did you test it in Mageia as described in the README.Mageia ? If you add Mageia (grub2) entry to menu.lst as described and boot into the grub2 menu it will have all your legacy systems listed. Do they not boot? All mine do.
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 20/01/2013 13:30, Maurice Batey wrote: On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 13:08:57 +, Barry Jackson wrote: Installing the grub2 package will not impact your current bootloader in any way. Installing GRUB2 where, Barry? (MBR or Root partition?) If - as I did with Ubuntu 12.01 - GRUB2 goes into the MBR, then I can no longer boot from its menu into a GRUB Legacy install, a I said earlier (despite the GRUB2 boot menu purporting to do so). On a recent install of Beta1, I chose Grub2 and selected to put the boot-loader in the MBR of the boot disk, replacing the legacy grub boot-loader of Mageia2. Grub2 created a boot menu that enables me to successfully boot the pre-existing Mageia2 installation. Jim
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 13:08:57 +, Barry Jackson wrote: > Installing the grub2 package will not impact your current bootloader in > any way. Installing GRUB2 where, Barry? (MBR or Root partition?) If - as I did with Ubuntu 12.01 - GRUB2 goes into the MBR, then I can no longer boot from its menu into a GRUB Legacy install, a I said earlier (despite the GRUB2 boot menu purporting to do so). > Once it's installed read /usr/share/doc/grub2/README.Mageia to find how to > add an entry to your existing menu.lst to boot into the new grub2 menu > from your existing legacy grub. As I said earlier, I already know how to do that. What I still don't know (and still no one has described!) is how to get a GRUB2 boot menu to successfullly boot a GRUB Legacy install. -- /\/\aurice
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 20/01/13 12:55, Maurice Batey wrote: On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 07:41:28 -0500, Frank Griffin wrote: According to this article, grub and grub2 each support chainloading the other. So I really don't see why there's a problem Note that he says: "I then login to that, edit the menu.lst file as desribed above to add the new Grub2 installation, and then restore Legacy Grub as the primary bootloader" So I suspect that he (like me) does not know how to boot a GRUB Legacy install from a GRUB2 boot menu. (Yes, I know GRUB2 boot menus do show options to boot existing GRUB Legacy installs, but in my experience (with Ubuntu and Mint) they *fail* to boot them.) Despite my requests in various newsgroups, NO ONE has offered a description of how to get a GRUB2 boot menu to successfully boot a GRUB Legacy install. Can you, please, Frank? There is no problem at all. Your issues with Ubuntu etc in the past were probably due to a bug in os-prober which was fixed in version 1.53. Mageia grub2 will correctly detect and boot legacy grub systems. If you install the grub2 package (assuming you did not at install time) then you can test this quite easily. Installing the grub2 package will not impact your current bootloader in any way. Once it's installed read /usr/share/doc/grub2/README.Mageia to find how to add an entry to your existing menu.lst to boot into the new grub2 menu from your existing legacy grub. Barry
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 01/20/2013 07:55 AM, Maurice Batey wrote: So I suspect that he (like me) does not know how to boot a GRUB Legacy install from a GRUB2 boot menu. (Yes, I know GRUB2 boot menus do show options to boot existing GRUB Legacy installs, but in my experience (with Ubuntu and Mint) they *fail* to boot them.) Despite my requests in various newsgroups, NO ONE has offered a description of how to get a GRUB2 boot menu to successfully boot a GRUB Legacy install. Can you, please, Frank? I've never used grub2 myself. But the article states that if you have grub2 on the MBR and define a chainloader menu.lst entry for a partition that has grub on the PBR, it works. That makes sense. Chainloading simply means that the MBR bootloader reads the PBR into memory and passes control to it exactly as the BIOS reads the MBR into memory and passes control to it. Assuming that both grub and grub2 support chainloading correctly, neither one of them should have any idea whether it's an MBR that was loaded by the BIOS or a PBR that was chainloaded by an MBR. This glosses over other sources of problems like UEFI and GPT, but it has always been the case that if you want to support multiple boot loaders, you have to use a lowest common denomination architecture that they all support.
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On Sun, 20 Jan 2013 07:41:28 -0500, Frank Griffin wrote: > According to this article, grub and grub2 each support chainloading the > other. So I really don't see why there's a problem Note that he says: "I then login to that, edit the menu.lst file as desribed above to add the new Grub2 installation, and then restore Legacy Grub as the primary bootloader" So I suspect that he (like me) does not know how to boot a GRUB Legacy install from a GRUB2 boot menu. (Yes, I know GRUB2 boot menus do show options to boot existing GRUB Legacy installs, but in my experience (with Ubuntu and Mint) they *fail* to boot them.) Despite my requests in various newsgroups, NO ONE has offered a description of how to get a GRUB2 boot menu to successfully boot a GRUB Legacy install. Can you, please, Frank? -- /\/\aurice
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 01/20/2013 06:44 AM, Maurice Batey wrote: There is an illuminating presentation on whole subject at: http://www.zdnet.com/multi-booting-with-legacy-grub-and-grub2-4010022073 According to this article, grub and grub2 each support chainloading the other. So I really don't see why there's a problem. I've never understood why anyone would set up multiboot architectures that *weren't* based exclusively on chainloading. That enforces maximum separation of the systems.
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3 (was: Feedback on Mageia 3 beta1)
On Fri, 18 Jan 2013 12:42:13 +, Maurice Batey wrote: >> As Grub2 devs all but insist Grub2 must be installed to the MBR, > > I had overlooked that restriction. Another black mark for GRUB2. Seems the installer *will* put GRUB2 on the root patition, but one has to search a little for the option... There is an illuminating presentation on whole subject at: http://www.zdnet.com/multi-booting-with-legacy-grub-and-grub2-4010022073 -- /\/\aurice
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3 [play nice, people]
On Sat, 2013-01-19 at 12:42 +0100, André Salaün wrote: [...] > But perhaps I am a stupid linux user since 13 or 14 years and I should > have to buy Apple product or W8 ;-) I've been using Unix since V7 days and have been told on this list I shouldn't be using Cauldron because it's for more advanced users. Please people, let's be respectful and also welcoming. A lot of people get heavily involved with computers because they aren't "people people" or because they feel more comfortable with absolutes and certainty than with the warm fleshly reality of humanity, so we need also to understand people are not necessarily deliberately being offensive or dismissive, especially if English might not be their first language. Regards, Liam -- Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/ Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/ Ankh: irc.sorcery.net irc.gnome.org freenode/#xml
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
Le Fri, 18 Jan 2013 23:04:13 + Barry Jackson a écrit: > On 18/01/13 21:50, André Salaün wrote: > > Le Fri, 18 Jan 2013 20:19:24 + > > Maurice Batey a écrit: > > > >> On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 22:09:41 -0500, Felix Miata wrote: > >> > >>> As Grub2 devs all but insist Grub2 must be installed to the MBR, > >> > >>Thus preventing the use of such bootloadcers as GAG, and Extipl. so in > >> that respect GRUB2 is a retrograde step. > >> > >> -- > >> /\/\aurice > >> > > > > +1 > > > > Same philosophy as gnome3 : only me. > > My choice is the goof choice according to myself (Im a dev so I can't be > > wrong) > > Same philosophy as Apple : users (like people) are children ! Elite > > have to show them the « good way ». > > > > Alleluia ! > > > > All FUD > > Have any of you actually installed grub2 in Cauldron and read > /usr/share/doc/grub2/README.Mageia and then actually tried it? > > This can be done without upsetting your grub legacy installation in any way. > > I have been using grub2 with Mageia since Mga1 and multibooting a dozen > or more distros including grub legacy and grub2. > > I am currently running Cauldron with only grub2 installed and NOT to the > MBR. > > I have just net installed current cauldron (so really mga3b2) with grub2 > (not in MBR) and can multiboot straight into it. > (at present there is an issue with the installer so the install just > needs to be aborted at the bootloader install stage to do this) > https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8742 > > As regards the background - grub2 picks up the current default Mageia > artwork from the system on install, so this should be automatic. > > All these fears are, AFAICT unfounded. So it'is a fud launched by grub2 developpers when they recommend installing it only on the MBR. Since the apparition of grub2 all that is almost unclear. Lack of communication or understandability I don't know but the fact is that grub2 is a problem for many users. If we add EFI UEFI (of course not linux fault) it is a easyless installing one or different Gnu/linux systems than 3 years ago. But perhaps I am a stupid linux user since 13 or 14 years and I should have to buy Apple product or W8 ;-) -- A.Salaün
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 2013-01-18 23:04 (GMT) Barry Jackson composed: All FUD There's no dispute that upstream Grub2 is more complicated than Grub Legacy, differs in several significant respects from Grub Legacy, or that upstream strongly recommends against installing it anywhere except on MBR on BIOS systems. Have any of you actually installed grub2 in Cauldron and read /usr/share/doc/grub2/README.Mageia and then actually tried it? As I wrote up-thread, I have many multiboot systems, and limit Grub2 to *buntu installations. The differences in basics between Grub2 & Grub Legacy are too many to be tracking what's what and where when 80+ distro installations among 12+ systems are involved. That Mageia's Grub2 implementation may be better than average doesn't interest me. Grub2 as a complete rewrite remains v1 software in spite of its version claim, and therefore not yet ready for my use. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3
On 18/01/13 21:50, André Salaün wrote: Le Fri, 18 Jan 2013 20:19:24 + Maurice Batey a écrit: On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 22:09:41 -0500, Felix Miata wrote: As Grub2 devs all but insist Grub2 must be installed to the MBR, Thus preventing the use of such bootloadcers as GAG, and Extipl. so in that respect GRUB2 is a retrograde step. -- /\/\aurice +1 Same philosophy as gnome3 : only me. My choice is the goof choice according to myself (Im a dev so I can't be wrong) Same philosophy as Apple : users (like people) are children ! Elite have to show them the « good way ». Alleluia ! All FUD Have any of you actually installed grub2 in Cauldron and read /usr/share/doc/grub2/README.Mageia and then actually tried it? This can be done without upsetting your grub legacy installation in any way. I have been using grub2 with Mageia since Mga1 and multibooting a dozen or more distros including grub legacy and grub2. I am currently running Cauldron with only grub2 installed and NOT to the MBR. I have just net installed current cauldron (so really mga3b2) with grub2 (not in MBR) and can multiboot straight into it. (at present there is an issue with the installer so the install just needs to be aborted at the bootloader install stage to do this) https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8742 As regards the background - grub2 picks up the current default Mageia artwork from the system on install, so this should be automatic. All these fears are, AFAICT unfounded.
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3 (was: Feedback on Mageia 3 beta1)
Le Fri, 18 Jan 2013 20:19:24 + Maurice Batey a écrit: > On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 22:09:41 -0500, Felix Miata wrote: > > > As Grub2 devs all but insist Grub2 must be installed to the MBR, > > Thus preventing the use of such bootloadcers as GAG, and Extipl. so in > that respect GRUB2 is a retrograde step. > > -- > /\/\aurice > +1 Same philosophy as gnome3 : only me. My choice is the goof choice according to myself (Im a dev so I can't be wrong) Same philosophy as Apple : users (like people) are children ! Elite have to show them the « good way ». Alleluia ! -- A.Salaün
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3 (was: Feedback on Mageia 3 beta1)
On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 22:09:41 -0500, Felix Miata wrote: > As Grub2 devs all but insist Grub2 must be installed to the MBR, Thus preventing the use of such bootloadcers as GAG, and Extipl. so in that respect GRUB2 is a retrograde step. -- /\/\aurice
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3 (was: Feedback on Mageia 3 beta1)
On 18 January 2013 12:42, Maurice Batey wrote: > On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 22:09:41 -0500, Felix Miata wrote: > >> As Grub2 devs all but insist Grub2 must be installed to the MBR, > > I had overlooked that restriction. Another black mark for GRUB2... > >> it is not yet a viable option for me as a Grub Legacy replacement, > >+1 > > -- > /\/\aurice > > The above reason don't apply to me that much, however, my experience with grub2 and the general installation of other OS's ala Fedora 18 i have found the process to be far more complex the Mageia's offering. I feel that we should stay with grub-legacy until such a point where the install looks as smooth as it does with grub-legacy. >From an artwork point of view, I find it to also be a blocker for this as we still don't have the background for MGA3, and I don't know if we have anyone who can do the processing required for grub2
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3 (was: Feedback on Mageia 3 beta1)
On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 22:09:41 -0500, Felix Miata wrote: > I have nothing against Grub2 being available or even preferred, as long as > I'm not forced to chose between Grub2 and no bootloader at all. Grub2 remains > immature and overly complicated, with inconsistent docs scattered about, and > it's largely inconsistent with Grub Legacy and its docs. +1 -- /\/\aurice
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3 (was: Feedback on Mageia 3 beta1)
On Thu, 17 Jan 2013 22:09:41 -0500, Felix Miata wrote: > As Grub2 devs all but insist Grub2 must be installed to the MBR, I had overlooked that restriction. Another black mark for GRUB2... > it is not yet a viable option for me as a Grub Legacy replacement, +1 -- /\/\aurice
Re: [Mageia-dev] Grub2 vs. Grub Legacy in M3 (was: Feedback on Mageia 3 beta1)
On 2013-01-18 03:31 (GMT+0100) Davy Defaud composed: Pierre Jarillon composed: Another interest is Ubuntu which already use Grub2. Not only Ubuntu, but also Fedora, openSUSE, Mint, Arch Linux... and even the next Debian Wheezy! I have nothing against Grub2 being available or even preferred, as long as I'm not forced to chose between Grub2 and no bootloader at all. Grub2 remains immature and overly complicated, with inconsistent docs scattered about, and it's largely inconsistent with Grub Legacy and its docs. I have more than a dozen multiboot systems with Mandriva, Mageia, Fedora, Debian, Knoppix, Gentoo, *buntu and openSUSE. On all of them I maintain legacy BIOS MBR code exclusively, and reserve the rest of the boot track for my own use. As Grub2 devs all but insist Grub2 must be installed to the MBR, it is not yet a viable option for me as a Grub Legacy replacement, or even adjunct. I do allow *buntu to install Grub2 to its / partition in order to watch development progress of Grub2, but in no other case is Grub2 now or for the foreseeable future going to be on any other / or /boot or any MBR of mine. On the many systems not requiring features of Grub2 lacking in Grub Legacy, the complications and requirements of Grub2 are unwarranted. Grub Legacy maintenance absence is a non-issue, as it just works, as long as no attempt is made to use it for anything it doesn't support. So if Grub Legacy gets dropped from a distro without allowing an option to install no bootloader at all, I drop the distro. Likely there are other multibooters who feel the same way. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
