Re: [Mageia-dev] stardict 3.0.3

2012-02-03 Thread Michael Scherer
Le mardi 31 janvier 2012 à 15:45 +0100, Romain d'Alverny a écrit :
> On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 23:29, Michael Scherer  wrote:
> > Unfortunately, that's not really the opinion of the sourceforge lawyers.
> 
> Where is this opinion documented? Are there source/reference/details
> about said copyright infringement reports? 

That's what I ask, did someone checked with sf why it was removed.

> (without which the claim
> does not stand) I could not find on the old site, neither on the new
> one, neither through a quick Google search.

http://stardict.sourceforge.net/

"The original StarDict project has recently been removed from
SourceForge due to copyright infringement reports. Most of the files
were lost with the demise of the project. The project has re-emerged
here since then, though the legal issues may never have been resolved.".

Based on this, I assume that it was removed by sf, and I also assume
that their lawyers decided it because that's the only logical reason. 

Another user ( in the sens sf user ) cannot ask to remove ( or at least,
not without sf approval, hence we go back on remove by sourceforge
people ).

Someone asking for copyright claims could ask, but again, this would
have been checked by sf lawyers.

Technically, someone owning the project could remove it, but since
"most of the files were lost", I assume that the removal was not
intended. So either this was done by someone else, ( hence back to
previous cases ), or the owner managed to remove the files from his hard
drive, his backup, sourceforge website and sourceforge backup in one go
( so unlikely to be done by error ). hence my conclusion.

In any case, there was copyright claims serious enough to shutdown the
project, meaning that someone filled the claims. And I think that's
serious enough to warrant a proper verification.
-- 
Michael Scherer



Re: [Mageia-dev] stardict 3.0.3

2012-01-31 Thread Romain d'Alverny
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 23:29, Michael Scherer  wrote:
> Unfortunately, that's not really the opinion of the sourceforge lawyers.

Where is this opinion documented? Are there source/reference/details
about said copyright infringement reports? (without which the claim
does not stand) I could not find on the old site, neither on the new
one, neither through a quick Google search.


Re: [Mageia-dev] stardict 3.0.3

2012-01-30 Thread Michael Scherer
Le lundi 30 janvier 2012 à 22:56 +0100, Claire Revillet a écrit :
> Le 30/01/2012 22:50, Funda Wang a écrit :
> > 2012/1/31 Claire Revillet:
> >> For me StarDict is a dead project and I was looking for a successor.
> >> There is no information on the "copyright infringement" and the tarball 
> >> that
> >> can be downloaded on the new site are exactly the same as the old ones !
> >> So the first possibility is: there was truly a copyright problem and there
> >> is still (this may be proved in the future if the copyright owner ask to
> >> close again the project) ; second possibility: there was no copyright
> >> problem (but a more obscure one), but, still, the project is not very
> >> active.
> > I think there is no copyright problem with the stardict the program
> > itself, only the data files (dictionaries). But the author has been
> > missing for half a year:
> > http://goldendict.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1109
> It's also what I think : no really copyright pb with the code (and yes, 
> I had seen link :\ ).

Unfortunately, that's not really the opinion of the sourceforge lawyers.

I assume that since you didn't warn us of a problem during the 6 months
that you at least took the initiative as a maintainer to contact
sourceforge.net, and that you received a answer letting you safely to
dismiss their analysis. 
So can you share the answer, and/or the analysis ?

Because I think that if we have a special treatement for patents and
DMCA despites having legal protections ( safe harbor laws in the USAs,
for example ) for mirrors, we should at least be as vigilant for
copyright violation when there is no such provision and much stricter
laws ( per various treaty ), as we all know given the current events.

-- 
Michael Scherer



Re: [Mageia-dev] stardict 3.0.3

2012-01-30 Thread Claire Revillet

Le 30/01/2012 22:50, Funda Wang a écrit :

2012/1/31 Claire Revillet:

For me StarDict is a dead project and I was looking for a successor.
There is no information on the "copyright infringement" and the tarball that
can be downloaded on the new site are exactly the same as the old ones !
So the first possibility is: there was truly a copyright problem and there
is still (this may be proved in the future if the copyright owner ask to
close again the project) ; second possibility: there was no copyright
problem (but a more obscure one), but, still, the project is not very
active.

I think there is no copyright problem with the stardict the program
itself, only the data files (dictionaries). But the author has been
missing for half a year:
http://goldendict.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1109
It's also what I think : no really copyright pb with the code (and yes, 
I had seen link :\ ).
I don't think the problem is with the dict, because the pages with all 
the dict are still there :

http://abloz.com/huzheng/stardict-dic/
(and easy to find).

So, for me, dict are okay. But if the new dev is not really active, it 
is a good time to change the software for the distribution.


Re: [Mageia-dev] stardict 3.0.3

2012-01-30 Thread Funda Wang
2012/1/31 Claire Revillet :
> For me StarDict is a dead project and I was looking for a successor.
> There is no information on the "copyright infringement" and the tarball that
> can be downloaded on the new site are exactly the same as the old ones !
> So the first possibility is: there was truly a copyright problem and there
> is still (this may be proved in the future if the copyright owner ask to
> close again the project) ; second possibility: there was no copyright
> problem (but a more obscure one), but, still, the project is not very
> active.
I think there is no copyright problem with the stardict the program
itself, only the data files (dictionaries). But the author has been
missing for half a year:
http://goldendict.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1109


Re: [Mageia-dev] stardict 3.0.3

2012-01-30 Thread Claire Revillet

Le 30/01/2012 22:31, Claire Revillet a écrit :


I keep updating URLs and SOURCEs - the initial bug-request was there 
https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3035 (I have reviewed 
initially 2,500 source-packages).

1) stardict does not appear in the list
2) why maintainers are not been contacted for all those problems ?


3) if your point was just to fix bad URLs, why upgrading ?


Claire




Re: [Mageia-dev] stardict 3.0.3

2012-01-30 Thread Claire Revillet


I keep updating URLs and SOURCEs - the initial bug-request was there 
https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3035 (I have reviewed 
initially 2,500 source-packages).

1) stardict does not appear in the list
2) why maintainers are not been contacted for all those problems ?


So what do you think about the future of StarDICT? I was looking at 
the projects and I'm a little bit affraid of the licenses and patents. 
For example GoldenDict is said to support Babylon - and this can be 
problematic with patents.



For me StarDict is a dead project and I was looking for a successor.
There is no information on the "copyright infringement" and the tarball 
that can be downloaded on the new site are exactly the same as the old 
ones !
So the first possibility is: there was truly a copyright problem and 
there is still (this may be proved in the future if the copyright owner 
ask to close again the project) ; second possibility: there was no 
copyright problem (but a more obscure one), but, still, the project is 
not very active.


So if GoldenDict present, at this time, no license or patent problem and 
is actively developed : it can be a better choice.
Import freeze for mageia 2 will be in march, so I think we have a little 
time to think about it to choose the best solution for mageia 2 and test 
it (bugs...) before release.

Let's take the week for discussion.


you reviewed the dicts if they are legally used?
I checked for almost all dict : they are GPL or "Creative Commons 
Attribution-ShareAlike Licence (V3.0)". Just 1 as to be modified 
(quick-deu-eng) or simply removed. I'll do that in the week.
I think url information may not be good, but I did not see the point of 
rebuilding 200 packages just for that (taking into account the fact that 
dictionaries are not code : they do not evolve).


Claire


Re: [Mageia-dev] stardict 3.0.3

2012-01-30 Thread Kamil Rytarowski

W dniu 30.01.2012 20:53, Claire Revillet pisze:

Le 30/01/2012 17:55, Kamil Rytarowski a écrit :

Hello!

W dniu 30.01.2012 14:33, Funda Wang pisze:
Personally, i'm in favour of dropping it, due to what is said in its 
homepage:

StarDict hasn't seen any active development for many years
Well it's worth to consider importing goldentict too, but I'm against 
dropping stardict - it's actually alive and people keep porting it to 
GTK3. https://code.google.com/p/stardict-3/updates/list

Hi

What about asking his (her) opinion to the maintainer *before* 
upgrading it to the "new" version ?




  + kamil
- new versdion 3.0.3
- disable all patches, they seem merged
- update URL
- update SOURCE
**

As the maintainer, it was to me to take the decision to upgrade or 
propose something else for mageia.

Hi Claire!

I keep updating URLs and SOURCEs - the initial bug-request was there 
https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3035 (I have reviewed initially 
2,500 source-packages).


You have the right to ask me what I want to do with it and to expose 
your opinion. But next time, ask the maintainer before ! There was no 
bugreport open for stardict, so no emergency to touch this package.


And in case you are no aware of the fact we have a database for 
maintainership :

mgarepo maintdb get
do the trick.
I was informed that this mostly means that you are responsible for 
decisions what to do in future with a package, and you are ready to be 
assigned in a bug-request etc.


So what do you think about the future of StarDICT? I was looking at the 
projects and I'm a little bit affraid of the licenses and patents. For 
example GoldenDict is said to support Babylon - and this can be 
problematic with patents.


Have you reviewed the dicts if they are legally used?


Claire






Re: [Mageia-dev] stardict 3.0.3

2012-01-30 Thread Michael Scherer
Le lundi 30 janvier 2012 à 20:53 +0100, Claire Revillet a écrit :
> Le 30/01/2012 17:55, Kamil Rytarowski a écrit :
> > Hello!
> >
> > W dniu 30.01.2012 14:33, Funda Wang pisze:
> >> Personally, i'm in favour of dropping it, due to what is said in its 
> >> homepage:
> >> StarDict hasn't seen any active development for many years
> > Well it's worth to consider importing goldentict too, but I'm against 
> > dropping stardict - it's actually alive and people keep porting it to 
> > GTK3. https://code.google.com/p/stardict-3/updates/list
> Hi
> 
> What about asking his (her) opinion to the maintainer *before* upgrading 
> it to the "new" version ?
>
> 
> 
>+ kamil
>  - new versdion 3.0.3
>  - disable all patches, they seem merged
>  - update URL
>  - update SOURCE
> **
> 
> As the maintainer, it was to me to take the decision to upgrade or propose 
> something else for mageia.

So as the maintainer, can you explain to us why you did not warn us of
the copyright problem that we can see since 07/2011 on 
http://stardict.sourceforge.net/

-- 
Michael Scherer



Re: [Mageia-dev] stardict 3.0.3

2012-01-30 Thread Claire Revillet

Le 30/01/2012 17:55, Kamil Rytarowski a écrit :

Hello!

W dniu 30.01.2012 14:33, Funda Wang pisze:
Personally, i'm in favour of dropping it, due to what is said in its 
homepage:

StarDict hasn't seen any active development for many years
Well it's worth to consider importing goldentict too, but I'm against 
dropping stardict - it's actually alive and people keep porting it to 
GTK3. https://code.google.com/p/stardict-3/updates/list

Hi

What about asking his (her) opinion to the maintainer *before* upgrading 
it to the "new" version ?




  + kamil
- new versdion 3.0.3
- disable all patches, they seem merged
- update URL
- update SOURCE
**

As the maintainer, it was to me to take the decision to upgrade or propose 
something else for mageia.

You have the right to ask me what I want to do with it and to expose your 
opinion. But next time, ask the maintainer before ! There was no bugreport open 
for stardict, so no emergency to touch this package.

And in case you are no aware of the fact we have a database for maintainership :
mgarepo maintdb get
do the trick.

Claire




Re: [Mageia-dev] stardict 3.0.3

2012-01-30 Thread Kamil Rytarowski

Hello!

W dniu 30.01.2012 14:33, Funda Wang pisze:

Personally, i'm in favour of dropping it, due to what is said in its homepage:
StarDict hasn't seen any active development for many years
Well it's worth to consider importing goldentict too, but I'm against 
dropping stardict - it's actually alive and people keep porting it to 
GTK3. https://code.google.com/p/stardict-3/updates/list

2012/1/30 Kamil Rytarowski:

Hello!

Thanks for fixing stardict! I had problems with mirrors and temporarely
wasn't able to fix the glib.h headers locally.