Re: [Mailman-Users] Discarding defers from the command line

[Brad Knowles]

on 5/16/09 9:57 AM, Bernie Cosell said:

I've been pushing on this some, to no avail at the moment.  The simple 
part was finding the data directory, the wiki isn't exactly correct: on 
our install, at least, the data directory is in /var/lib/mailman.


Then you're using a version of Mailman that was provided as part of a 
binary package from some other source, and not our canonical source-only 
distribution of Mailman.


That's not necessarily a problem, but you do need to keep in mind that 
all our documentation and FAQs are written to the only standard we have, 
which is the original source code that we provide.  We can't control 
what anyone else does with whatever they provide, nor can we write their 
documentation for them.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Deleting messages from archive....

[Mark Sapiro]

Charles Gregory wrote:
>
>As a side note, is there a limit to how large the archive mbox can grow?
>I've got several years in an archive now, and its pushing past 64MB...
>Am I going to hit a limit soon? (CentOS 4, if that matters)


Many older *nix OSs limit files to 2GB (32 bit integer). Newer OS
versions don't have this limit. Mailman imposes no limit beyond those
of your OS and available storage.

-- 
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Deleting messages from archive....

[Charles Gregory]

On Sat, 16 May 2009, Barry Warsaw wrote:
I've long thought that Pipermail should be split off from Mailman as a 
project, perhaps still bundled in whatever sumo distribution we provide. 
It would be very cool if a group of people worked together to make 
Pipermail not suck.


As a side note, is there a limit to how large the archive mbox can grow?
I've got several years in an archive now, and its pushing past 64MB...
Am I going to hit a limit soon? (CentOS 4, if that matters)

- Charles
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Discarding defers from the command line

[Mark Sapiro]

Bernie Cosell wrote:

>On 12 May 2009 at 17:58, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> >On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 08:27:45AM -0400, Bernie Cosell wrote:
>> >> Is there a command-line way to "discard all messags marked defer"?
>> 
>> Actually a FAQ more specific to this question is
>> .
>
>I've been pushing on this some, to no avail at the moment.  The simple 
>part was finding the data directory, the wiki isn't exactly correct: on 
>our install, at least, the data directory is in /var/lib/mailman.  Since 
>it seems to be constructed from VAR_PREFIX I'd guess that on most setups 
>it'd be in a different place than ~mailman.


I added a note to the FAQ about this.


>What I'm running into now is that the command-line pgm has to be run as 
>user 'mailman' and I can't do that [at least not very easily].  I tried 
>setting discard to be setgid, but that seems not to work,


SETGID only works for binary executables. It doesn't work for scripts
of any kind.

Can you add yourself to the 'mailman' group? That should be sufficient.


>so I guess this 
>is a followon question: is there a way to make python scripts run 
>setuid/setgid?  [basically, my situation is that I can only get to the 
>mail server logged in as me, NOT logged in as mailman] -- I suppose I 
>could always write a setgid Perl one-liner to run the Python discard..:o)


It won't work with Perl either. It has to be a binary executable. Thats
the reason for all the compiled SETGID wrappers in mailman's cgi-bin/
and mail/ directories.

It seems you are able to get some kind of privileges on the mail server
if you are able to make mailman files SETGID. Can you run sudo? Can
you run newgrp to set your logged in group to 'mailman'?

The attached members.c.txt file is the source of a wrapper I use (the
executable is SETGID mailman) to allow apache (php scripts) to execute
certain mailman commands. If all else fails, you could strip the
command check logic or add discard to the array of allowed commands
and use it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

#include 
#include 
#include 

main(int argc, char** argv, char** env) {

char* legals[] = {
  "list_members",
  "find_member",
  "invite_members",
  (char*) NULL
};

int i;
int flag = 0;
char command[100];

if (argc < 2) {
dprintf(STDERR_FILENO,
"Usage: %s command command_args\nNo command found\n",
argv[0]);
exit(1);
}

for ( i = 0; legals[i] != (char*) NULL; i++ ) {
if (strcmp(legals[i], argv[1]) == 0) {
flag = 1;
break;
}
}
if (!flag){
dprintf(STDERR_FILENO,
"Usage: %s command command_args\nUnknown command: %s\n",
argv[0], argv[1]);
exit(1);
}
sprintf(command, "/usr/local/mailman/bin/%s", argv[1]);
execve(command, &argv[1], env);
dprintf(STDERR_FILENO, "execve of %s failed\n", command);
exit(2);
}
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Re: [Mailman-Users] [mm] Deleting messages from archive....

[Charles Gregory]

On Fri, 15 May 2009, Ralf Hildebrandt wrote:

>Has anyone ever developed a point-n-click tool to delete
>a message from an archive, preferably by just eliminating the 
>From/To/Subject and body, but leaving the links intact, with

>a placeholder message that says "message content removed", etc?

It would totally rule. Especially on python.org, where people regret
posting their full name because "employers tend to google them", and
then come running to us, asking "Please remove my name".


Not withstanding your opinion of people who do this (which I cannot 
entirely disagree with - grin) you have brough to mind a number of 
scenarios where it might be beneficial to be able to quickly edit a
message, rather than delete it completely. For instance, someone posts a 
message with someone else's (unapproved) web link. The link needs to be 
removed, but the rest of the posting can stay as it is


As I think about this more deeply, I realize there are serious programming 
considerations. For example, the mesage subject appears in the pages that 
'index' the archive, as well as in the 'previous' and 'next' links of 
neighboring messages, sometimes not even in the same week/directory
I think if we permit editing of the subject it will have to, by default, 
change ALL references to that subject in all messages, just to keep things 
simple Presumably the only time a subject would be changed would be if 
it is offensive/abusive, so you would *want* to change alll of them. If 
some moron posts messages under the wrong subject, that is life on the 
list. We're not fixing that. LOL


Of course, there are some ethical issues to visit. Any editor should be 
certain to insert a disclaimer in the message body which says "THIS 
MESSAGE HAS BEEN EDITED BY LIST ADMINS SUBSEQUENT TO POSTING", just so

that original authors do not feel they've been misrepresented, etc, etc.

I can presume that if someone is comfortable with regenerating their 
archive from the mbox at ANY time, they wouldn't mind editing it for 
occasions like these. So I'm going to presume that this utility that is 
forming in my mind is for people who have already decided that they will 
*never* regenerate their archives from mboxes. Numbering and links will 
always be preserved So we need only be concerned with a utility that 
will updates the html and txt archives...


- Charles
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Discarding defers from the command line

[Bernie Cosell]

On 12 May 2009 at 17:58, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> >On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 08:27:45AM -0400, Bernie Cosell wrote:
> >> Is there a command-line way to "discard all messags marked defer"?
> 
> Actually a FAQ more specific to this question is
> .

I've been pushing on this some, to no avail at the moment.  The simple 
part was finding the data directory, the wiki isn't exactly correct: on 
our install, at least, the data directory is in /var/lib/mailman.  Since 
it seems to be constructed from VAR_PREFIX I'd guess that on most setups 
it'd be in a different place than ~mailman.

What I'm running into now is that the command-line pgm has to be run as 
user 'mailman' and I can't do that [at least not very easily].  I tried 
setting discard to be setgid, but that seems not to work, so I guess this 
is a followon question: is there a way to make python scripts run 
setuid/setgid?  [basically, my situation is that I can only get to the 
mail server logged in as me, NOT logged in as mailman] -- I suppose I 
could always write a setgid Perl one-liner to run the Python discard..:o)

  /Bernie\

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Deleting messages from archive....

[Barry Warsaw]

On May 16, 2009, at 3:42 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

Removing mailman-developers because I'm not talking about  
implementation.


Barry Warsaw writes:


I've long thought that all archives should be vended dynamically
rather than statically,  of course with a cache to improve  
performance

as necessary.


I think it's a great option.  But first Mailman would have to support
archives, which it doesn't, really.  pipermail is fine for small
projects and some larger projects that are willing to put up with its
limitations, but it's pretty creaky.  Anything else (eg MHonArc) is
"you do it yourself, see the tracker".

IMO, trying to support archiving is mission creep the project should
avoid, except for providing hooks to make it easier to use 3rd party
archivers.


Mailman 3 makes it very easy to add archivers.  I already have  
implementations of hooks for Pipermail, MHonArc, and mail- 
archives.com.  They're not mutually exclusive btw.




N.B.  That doesn't mean Barry and Mark shouldn't contribute to
archivers, if they want to.


I've long thought that Pipermail should be split off from Mailman as a  
project, perhaps still bundled in whatever sumo distribution we  
provide.  It would be very cool if a group of people worked together  
to make Pipermail not suck.


-Barry



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman + Postfix - Too Many Connections

[Stefan Förster]

* "Lie, Jafaruddin"  wrote:
> We sent out mailing lists to schools here in Australia, and recently we've
> been getting "Too Many Connections #421" errors from them. Mails destined to
> gmail or hotmail are OK.

Not really a mailman problem, have a look at:

http://www.postfix.org/QSHAPE_README.html#backlog


Ciao
Stefan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Patch for use of Postfix VERP support

[Stefan Förster]

* Jesper Dybdal  wrote:
> If anybody should be interested, I've placed the modified patch,
> directly usable for 2.1.11, at
> http://www.dybdal.dk/mailman-2.1.11-postfix-verp.patch

Uh oh. I remember that patch, I've even tested it (German:
http://www.incertum.net/archives/307-Postfix,-Mailman-und-XVERP.html),
but it was incomplete (I found that out only weeks after I had written
that test).

I don't remember any specific details, but there were definitely
problems with double VERP'ifying. Something with the monthly
reminders. Whatever you do, don't simply go live with this one,
perform more testing first: Password reminders, monthly membership
reminders, moderation messages, reject messages and so on.

Don't get me wrong, being able to reduce the number of queue files
created can be a major performance increase on busy servers, the above
patch just doesn't cut it.


Cheers
Stefan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Deleting messages from archive....

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Removing mailman-developers because I'm not talking about implementation.

Barry Warsaw writes:

 > I've long thought that all archives should be vended dynamically  
 > rather than statically,  of course with a cache to improve performance  
 > as necessary.

I think it's a great option.  But first Mailman would have to support
archives, which it doesn't, really.  pipermail is fine for small
projects and some larger projects that are willing to put up with its
limitations, but it's pretty creaky.  Anything else (eg MHonArc) is
"you do it yourself, see the tracker".

IMO, trying to support archiving is mission creep the project should
avoid, except for providing hooks to make it easier to use 3rd party
archivers.

N.B.  That doesn't mean Barry and Mark shouldn't contribute to
archivers, if they want to.

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