Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman < > forum ?

2009-12-22 Thread Brad Knowles 
On Dec 21, 2009, at 1:49 AM, John Fitzsimons wrote:

> Are there currently *any* web forum(s) that enable forum/mailman
> mirroring ? In other words a Mailman email going to a web forum and
> vica versa ?

Search the FAQ wizard for "web forum".  You should find a link to an article 
that talks about Joomla.  That's the best integration I know of, although I'm 
sure there are others.

> I believe that something like this could work with phpbb2 but not the
> current release. Can anyone help please ?

I'm not personally aware of anything, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't 
exist.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Increasing the Speed of Email Delivery

2009-12-22 Thread Brad Knowles 
On Dec 18, 2009, at 12:15 AM, Derrick Wooden wrote:

> I have been doing a lot of reading along that wise.  As a result I'm setting
> up the new server with no cPanel and will use Postfix as my MTA.  I will do
> a clean install of Mailman 2.13 so that I can be on the same page as most
> users.

It's not just the MTA.  It's also the configuration.  I could build a Sendmail 
configuration that could beat the pants off an out-of-the-box postfix 
configuration, if the list was large enough and I had enough hardware to do the 
job right.  I'm sure that we could find people who could do the same with Exim.

IMO, using postfix will give you a good initial default configuration and it 
won't take as much tweaking to improve the mail delivery performance, but 
that's just a personal opinion.

> I read in a 2004 (or earlier thread) where using MySQL db tables would also
> increase the speed.  I will also utilize this option.

I don't know of any way that MySQL would factor into this discussion.  Can you 
provide a reference?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Meta: bringing along the newcomers

2009-12-22 Thread Brad Knowles 
On Dec 18, 2009, at 7:09 AM, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

> It's under 100 lines, of which almost half were cut-and-pasted from
> the existing FAQ 1.22.

Most of which I wrote, and which I probably was not in a particularly good mood 
when I wrote it.  It definitely needs re-working.

> Anyway, you're entirely missing the point.  I don't expect anybody to
> read FAQ 1.22 in advance of comitting a faux pas; this particular FAQ
> is mostly for pointing to *afterward*.

Indeed.  That is precisely the point.

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[Mailman-Users] Web access to Mailman.

2009-12-22 Thread John Fitzsimons 

I am new to Mailman so there is something I didn't consider in the
recent web forum to Mailman discussions. The existing Mailman web
forum facility.

It seems to me that the majority of the Mailman to web work has
already been done. All that is needed is a "new post", and "reply"
button, addition to our mailing list archives page.

Admittedly "bare bones" but IMO a big help if people wanted to post
via the web in preference to an emailer.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] NNTP server for "local" newsgroups ?

2009-12-22 Thread John Fitzsimons 
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 20:15:40 -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote:
 
>On Dec 22, 2009, at 7:21 PM, John Fitzsimons wrote:

>> One can run "a local NNTP server" now. That connects to Mailman. I
>> assume that you are meaning that if Twisted were installed then
>> Twisted, or will it be Mailman, would provide the server ? 

>Twisted would provide the server.  

Okay.

>The only reason I'm thinking Twisted is because it might be easier to 
>configure permissions for and integrate with Mailman.

Okay.

>But there might be other options, e.g. along the lines of using dovecot for 
>IMAP.

>> Okay, but I am assuming that Gmane has port 119 open. Many sites that
>> provide Mailman wouldn't have it open. How could that be overcome ?

>Well, you'd have to open the appropriate port.

Okay, IF an NNTP setup were part of Mailman then that would IMO
encourage a huge number of hosters, that currently install Mailman,
to consider opening that port. Particularly as you could put in the
installation documents that the Mailman NNTP facility requires it.

You would be doing a gigantic service to newsgroup fans around the
world. I sure hope you can manage this venture. 

> Gmane is a fine service, 

Yep, as a "proof of concept" situation it works particularly well. Web
forum <> newsgroup post <> email mirroring. Few other people have
managed that.

>but it's run by a party you don't control.  

Yes, and if one doesn't use it there is nobody else anywhere who can
provide a similar service. Even for a cost.  :-(

>The idea here is to run a server that you do control for sites that want to do 
>that.

>-Barry

Well, if you pull this off, then IMO Mailman will blow competing
products out of the water. Both freeware and payware.   :-)

Regards, John.
  
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Re: [Mailman-Users] NNTP server for "local" newsgroups ?

2009-12-22 Thread Barry Warsaw 
On Dec 22, 2009, at 7:21 PM, John Fitzsimons wrote:

> One can run "a local NNTP server" now. That connects to Mailman. I
> assume that you are meaning that if Twisted were installed then
> Twisted, or will it be Mailman, would provide the server ? 

Twisted would provide the server.  The only reason I'm thinking Twisted is 
because it might be easier to configure permissions for and integrate with 
Mailman.  But there might be other options, e.g. along the lines of using 
dovecot for IMAP.

> Okay, but I am assuming that Gmane has port 119 open. Many sites that
> provide Mailman wouldn't have it open. How could that be overcome ?

Well, you'd have to open the appropriate port.  Gmane is a fine service, but 
it's run by a party you don't control.  The idea here is to run a server that 
you do control for sites that want to do that.

-Barry

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Re: [Mailman-Users] NNTP server for "local" newsgroups ?

2009-12-22 Thread John Fitzsimons 
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 18:59:56 -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote:
 
>On Dec 22, 2009, at 5:35 PM, John Fitzsimons wrote:

Hi Barry,

Thank you for explaining things more.

< snip >

>> As you appear to have already provided email to NNTP mirroring ability
>> eg. Gmane would your version 3 provide the install of an NNTP server
>> with the Mailman install ?

>Well, there's a lot to work out with respect to packaging, but the idea is 
>that you could run a local NNTP server that people could connect to with their 
>newsreaders. 

One can run "a local NNTP server" now. That connects to Mailman. I
assume that you are meaning that if Twisted were installed then
Twisted, or will it be Mailman, would provide the server ? 

Or are we not talking about an NNTP server at all ? Just a conversion
of protocols in some way ?

> It would work very much like Gmane (though we'd have to work out posting via 
> NNTP issues).

< snip >

Okay, but I am assuming that Gmane has port 119 open. Many sites that
provide Mailman wouldn't have it open. How could that be overcome ?

Regards, John.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] NNTP server for "local" newsgroups ?

2009-12-22 Thread Barry Warsaw 
On Dec 22, 2009, at 5:35 PM, John Fitzsimons wrote:

> Would you mind explaining that a bit more please ? Would the end 
> user need to install Twisted first to get NNTP access to Mailman
> archives ?

The end user wouldn't but the system administrator for the Mailman site would.  
It would be optional of course.

> When you say "archives" do you mean "old posts" ? Or would this
> provide the "live" NNTP < > email list mirroring that I am looking 
> for ?

Yes, old posts.  Of course, three seconds after the message is approved and 
being sent to the list membership, it's "old" :)

> As you appear to have already provided email to NNTP mirroring ability
> eg. Gmane would your version 3 provide the install of an NNTP server
> with the Mailman install ?

Well, there's a lot to work out with respect to packaging, but the idea is that 
you could run a local NNTP server that people could connect to with their 
newsreaders.  It would work very much like Gmane (though we'd have to work out 
posting via NNTP issues).

> "you can also make some changes to the way your web server is set up
> so that your users can access your newsgroups through the same URL as
> your web site. There is no need to include unsightly port numbers in
> the URL. This can also overcome problems of people not being able
> to read your newsgroups because of their firewall settings.
> 
> < snip >
> 
> we use the Apache web server with the mod_proxy module. Similar
> approaches are available with most other web servers. For IIS, you
> will either need Microsoft Proxy Server, Microsoft Internet
> Acceleration Server, or a third-party ISAPI module (such as
> http://www.isapirewrite.com/) to have the same effect.
> 
> < snip >
> 
> For details on how to set this up on your own web server, see the
> Apache mod_proxy documentation or the documentation for whatever web
> server or proxy server you are using, and look for details on how to
> set up a "reverse proxy".
> 
> Don't know whether that helps, or is relevant to the discussion.

Hmm, I'm not sure how it is relevant to NNTP access to the mailing lists.

-Barry

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Re: [Mailman-Users] NNTP server for "local" newsgroups ?

2009-12-22 Thread John Fitzsimons 
On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 22:13:15 -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote:
 
>On Dec 21, 2009, at 7:36 PM, John Fitzsimons wrote:

Hi Barry,

>> In another thread we were talking about Mailman to web forum
>> options. As Mailman can manage NNTP I wondered whether anyone
>> here had come across an NNTP server for "local" (not usenet)
>> newsgroups ?

>Yes.  I intend to explore using Twisted in Mailman 3 to provide NNTP  
>and IMAP access to Mailman archives.

>-Barry

Would you mind explaining that a bit more please ? Would the end 
user need to install Twisted first to get NNTP access to Mailman
archives ?

When you say "archives" do you mean "old posts" ? Or would this
provide the "live" NNTP < > email list mirroring that I am looking 
for ?

As you appear to have already provided email to NNTP mirroring ability
eg. Gmane would your version 3 provide the install of an NNTP server
with the Mailman install ?

Sorry to ask so many dumb questions but I would really like to get a
better understanding of what you propose and whether it is likely to
give me the mirroring facilities I am after.

Bye the way, I don't know if the following helps, or not, but someone
who managed to get email < > web < > NNTP newsgroups working 
said..


"you can also make some changes to the way your web server is set up
so that your users can access your newsgroups through the same URL as
your web site. There is no need to include unsightly port numbers in
the URL. This can also overcome problems of people not being able
to read your newsgroups because of their firewall settings.

< snip >

we use the Apache web server with the mod_proxy module. Similar
approaches are available with most other web servers. For IIS, you
will either need Microsoft Proxy Server, Microsoft Internet
Acceleration Server, or a third-party ISAPI module (such as
http://www.isapirewrite.com/) to have the same effect.

< snip >

For details on how to set this up on your own web server, see the
Apache mod_proxy documentation or the documentation for whatever web
server or proxy server you are using, and look for details on how to
set up a "reverse proxy".

Don't know whether that helps, or is relevant to the discussion.


Regards, John.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman < > forum ?

2009-12-22 Thread John Fitzsimons 
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 07:47:40 -0500, Tanstaafl wrote:
 
< snip >

>if work is going to be done, I
>hope it will be done in a modular fashion so that other forum software
>(with a plugin architecture) will be able to work with it.

< snip >

>Simple Machines is the one to pick if you are going to support only one.

Looks like an example of very good forum software. Thanks for the
reference.  :-)


Regards, John.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman < > forum ?

2009-12-22 Thread John Fitzsimons 
On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 18:49:44 +1100, John Fitzsimons wrote:
 

>Hi,

>Are there currently *any* web forum(s) that enable forum/mailman
>mirroring ? In other words a Mailman email going to a web forum and
>vica versa ?

< snip >

Since my post I have come across...

http://www.phorum.org/phorum5/read.php?62,140380

it says

"this allows for two way integration with mailinglists. "


The comments..."shell / cronjob access" and "raw shell access" 
suggest that it wouldn't work for me on a hosted site.  :-(


Regards, John.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman < > forum ?

2009-12-22 Thread John Fitzsimons 
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:59:40 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
 
>John Fitzsimons writes:

> > Are there currently *any* web forum(s) that enable forum/mailman
> > mirroring ? In other words a Mailman email going to a web forum and
> > vica versa ?

>Precisely what does a "web forum" do?  

Have threaded web discussions. Eg. 

http://www.phpbb.com/about/

http://www.phorum.org/ etc.

>Would Trac 

Never heard of it. Doesn't look remotely like the above. IMO clearly
for those who are familiar with Linux and/or are programmers.

>or Roundup serve?

Much the same thing. I don't even see any web forums at that site.

>These are nominally "issue trackers" (and Trac is bundled with a wiki
>which might or might not be attractive for your purpose).  However,
>what they basically do is manage threads.  Roundup is quite good at
>integrating mail and web submissions at least for its purpose (but it
>doesn't thread automatically; instead, each issue might be thought of
>as a manually specified thread).  I don't know how well Trac handles
>mail submissions, I only use the web interface of the Tracs I deal
>with.

>Roundup is a hairball, 

Sounds like something one should warn one's cat about. Or one's
barber.

>but very very configurable.  

If one is a Linux guru. That isn't me.

>Trac is a lot more
>slick but at least in the incarnation where I met it
>(bugs.macosforge.org circa summer 2007) it was a ponderous
>unconfigurable beast requiring massive admin attention to get the
>smallest tweak implemented (or maybe it's just that the MacPorts folks
>can't admin their way out of a paper bag, I've seen other symptoms to
>suggest that's the case, so don't take this as entirely negative on
>Trac -- not to mention that lots of people love it).

>I've briefly mentioned integrating some Roundup functions with the
>mailman interface to Barry but that hasn't gone anywhere yet.

I have mentioned previously that if something needs root access, or
familiarity with Linux, then it is of little use to me.

Regards, John.
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[Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1.13 released

2009-12-22 Thread Mark Sapiro 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I am happy to announce the final release  of Mailman 2.1.13.

Mailman 2.1.13 is a bug fix release and contains a new localization for
the Asturian language.

Python 2.4 is the minimum supported, but Python 2.5.or 2.6 is recommended.

See the changelog at  for
more details.

Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and
e-newsletters. Mailman is used for all the python.org and
SourceForge.net mailing lists, as well as at hundreds of other sites.

For more information, please see:

http://www.list.org
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman

Mailman 2.1.13 can be downloaded from

https://launchpad.net/mailman/2.1/
http://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/mailman/

- -- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman < > forum ?

2009-12-22 Thread Barry Warsaw 
On Dec 22, 2009, at 7:47 AM, Tanstaafl wrote:

> Please - not to start a 'distro' war, but if work is going to be done, I
> hope it will be done in a modular fashion so that other forum software
> (with a plugin architecture) will be able to work with it.

Absolutely, just like we support multiple MTAs, web servers, etc.

-Barry

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman < > forum ?

2009-12-22 Thread Tanstaafl 
On 2009-12-21 10:01 PM, Mark J Bradakis wrote:
> Are you seriously asking about what are web forums?  There's about 38.63
> gazillion of them on the net.  A couple I'm working on are at
> 
> http://www.team.net/forums
> 
> and
> 
> http://wasatchfoodies.com

Please - not to start a 'distro' war, but if work is going to be done, I
hope it will be done in a modular fashion so that other forum software
(with a plugin architecture) will be able to work with it.

I wouldn't touch phpBB again with a ten meter optical fiber - and yes,
this is from personal experience, and lots of corrupted data - and
googling will reveal tons of similar experiences.

Simple Machines is the one to pick if you are going to support only one.

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Charles
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman < > forum ?

2009-12-22 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull 
Mark J Bradakis writes:
 > Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
 > > Precisely what does a "web forum" do?  Would Trac or Roundup serve?

Sorry, I omitted the words "for you".  I'm interested in the OP's
requirements, not in the available software, which matches his
requirements more or less closely (all too often, "less").

 > Are you seriously asking about what are web forums?  There's about 38.63
 > gazillion of them on the net.

38.63 gazillion = 1 plague, if I recall my biometric units
correctly.
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