[Mailman-Users] inactivating bounce processing to speed up list performance
Dear listers, I eventually traced that my mailman installation is delaying the distribution of messages because it is trapped in a bunch of bounce processing, dealing with undelivered messages, etc... in this regard, could I simply inactivate bounce processing? If I do so I should expect an increase in speed and performance of mailman and a decrease in delays, but I might risk that some members, whose messages could not be delivered for whatever reasons, might loose some of these messages. Is that so? Would you recommend setting Mailman to not performing bounce processing to improve its performance? thanks Lluis -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] inactivating bounce processing to speed up list performance
* Lluis Montoliu monto...@cnb.csic.es: Dear listers, I eventually traced that my mailman installation is delaying the distribution of messages because it is trapped in a bunch of bounce processing, dealing with undelivered messages, etc... in this regard, could I simply inactivate bounce processing? No. You need to clean out your lists. Why are you sending out garbage to non-existing addresses at? A properly maintained list has a low percentage of undeliverables - when (as in your case) the undeliverables are exceeding the normal fallout of about 3%, then you're having bad lists. If I do so I should expect an increase in speed and performance of mailman and a decrease in delays, but I might risk that some members, whose messages could not be delivered for whatever reasons, might loose some of these messages. Is that so? No. Would you recommend setting Mailman to not performing bounce processing to improve its performance? thanks Lluis No. Sending mail to non-deliverable adresses is going to get you into blacklists. That's how Hotmail and SenderScore work. Furthermore you're going to hit spamtraps sooner or later. -- Ralf Hildebrandt Geschäftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk Charité - Universitätsmedizin Berlin Campus Benjamin Franklin Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962 ralf.hildebra...@charite.de | http://www.charite.de -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Duplicate posts?
Hello all, Several subscribers of my list are complaining of duplicate posts. They say it happens only sometimes. Are there any common reasons for such occurrences? I don't experience this on my test-member account or in my regularly subscribed address, so it's difficult to track down. Any ideas are appreciated. Thanks. C. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] inactivating bounce processing to speed up list performance
Thanks Ralf, I understand. Apologies If I did not make myself understandable. I am not sending garbage to non-existing addresses. All addresses are verified and existing but not all messages appear to be delivered equally well, to my surprise, while some servers appear to refuse messages coming from this list for a while, until they are accepted for distribution, thus delaying overall mailman performance while it keeps trying to deliver, therefore I was considering to cancel bounce processing to speed up mailman performance. When I ask my hosting provider for the SMTP logs there appears to be activity by mailman, bounce processing, when there are no messages to distribute through the list, therefore I inferred that we are experiencing delays in distribution, beyond 30-60 minutes, from a message being sent to a message being distributed, because of this bounce processing actions. This is a list with about 600 members. According to your answer this would not work this way. regards Lluis * Lluis Montoliumonto...@cnb.csic.es: Dear listers, I eventually traced that my mailman installation is delaying the distribution of messages because it is trapped in a bunch of bounce processing, dealing with undelivered messages, etc... in this regard, could I simply inactivate bounce processing? No. You need to clean out your lists. Why are you sending out garbage to non-existing addresses at? A properly maintained list has a low percentage of undeliverables - when (as in your case) the undeliverables are exceeding the normal fallout of about 3%, then you're having bad lists. If I do so I should expect an increase in speed and performance of mailman and a decrease in delays, but I might risk that some members, whose messages could not be delivered for whatever reasons, might loose some of these messages. Is that so? No. Would you recommend setting Mailman to not performing bounce processing to improve its performance? thanks Lluis No. Sending mail to non-deliverable adresses is going to get you into blacklists. That's how Hotmail and SenderScore work. Furthermore you're going to hit spamtraps sooner or later. -- Ralf Hildebrandt Geschäftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk Charité - Universitätsmedizin Berlin Campus Benjamin Franklin Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962 ralf.hildebra...@charite.de | http://www.charite.de -- Dr. Lluis Montoliu Investigador Cientifico - Research Scientist CSIC Centro Nacional de Biotecnologia (CNB-CSIC) Campus de Cantoblanco C/ Darwin, 3 28049 Madrid (Spain) Tel. +34-91-5854844 / Fax +34-91-5854506 e-mail: monto...@cnb.csic.es skype: lluis.montoliu WEB: http://www.cnb.csic.es/~montoliu/ UAM: http://rincon.uam.es/dir?cw=766897583007812 U756 CIBERER: http://www.ciberer.es Spanish EMMA node: http://www.emmanet.org ISTT: http://www.transtechsociety.org -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] inactivating bounce processing to speed up list performance
* Lluis Montoliu monto...@cnb.csic.es: Thanks Ralf, I understand. Apologies If I did not make myself understandable. I am not sending garbage to non-existing addresses. All addresses are verified and existing but not all messages appear to be delivered equally well, to my surprise, while some servers appear to refuse messages coming from this list for a while, until they are accepted for distribution, thus delaying overall mailman performance while it keeps trying to deliver, Mailman Performance is not depending on this. Mailman hands the messages down to an MTA which does the sending - and MTA and Mailman are not really tightly coupled. Any decent MTA will back off from temporarily unreachable destinations. If you must, you can configure your MTA to pass these not immediately undeliverable mails to a fallback relay (config parameter fallback_relay = hostname in Postfix). therefore I was considering to cancel bounce processing to speed up mailman performance. But what you're describing is not generating bounces! Those tempfails only delay outgoing mail. No bounces occur (unless the delay exceeds a VERY long time, like 3-5 days - then the mails will eventually bounce). When I ask my hosting provider for the SMTP logs there appears to be activity by mailman, bounce processing, when there are no messages to distribute through the list, therefore I inferred that we are experiencing delays in distribution, beyond 30-60 minutes, from a message being sent to a message being distributed, because of this bounce processing actions. This is a list with about 600 members. This is really a tiny list. Are you really getting this many bounces? How many are you getting, and WHY? I think one needs to look at these logs. Bounce processing ONLY kicks in if the mails are REALLY undeliverable (user unknown, blacklistings and the like). And they would only hurt performance if a really large percentage of mails would bounce simultaneously. Even with 600 members on the list, and all bouncing, processing time would be REALLY low: Nov 19 12:24:14 albatross postfix/local[26944]: 3Slv3L0yJvzPbP: to=mailman-boun...@mail.python.org, orig_to=mailman-boun...@python.org, relay=local, delay=0.08, delays=0/0/0/0.07, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (delivered to command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman) a single bounce takes 0.08s, with 600 recipients all bouncing you would be at 600*0.08s=48s - which is not really that much. -- Ralf Hildebrandt Geschäftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk Charité - Universitätsmedizin Berlin Campus Benjamin Franklin Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin Tel. +49 30 450 570 155 | Fax: +49 30 450 570 962 ralf.hildebra...@charite.de | http://www.charite.de -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate posts?
On 2011-11-23 11:11, Carlos Palomino wrote: Several subscribers of my list are complaining of duplicate posts. They say it happens only sometimes. Are there any common reasons for such occurrences? I don't experience this on my test-member account or in my regularly subscribed address, so it's difficult to track down. Any ideas are appreciated. Perhaps this comes with users replying to all. So they send their reply to the user and the list. BTW: This is usually recommended in nettiquetts to do this. I always do it on lists. Kind regards, Christian Mack -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate posts?
Mailman Admin wrote: On 2011-11-23 11:11, Carlos Palomino wrote: Several subscribers of my list are complaining of duplicate posts. They say it happens only sometimes. Are there any common reasons for such occurrences? I don't experience this on my test-member account or in my regularly subscribed address, so it's difficult to track down. Any ideas are appreciated. Perhaps this comes with users replying to all. So they send their reply to the user and the list. This will cause a duplicate if and only if the nodups setting of the recipient who is also directly addressed is off. In a default installation, this setting defaults to On for new subscribers, but the list admin can change it (new_member_options - Filter out duplicate messages to list members (if possible)), and individual members can change their own settings Other possibilities include cross posts to multiple lists of which the recipient is a member, and duplication in the delivery chain after the post has left Mailman. The latter may be detectable by comparing the Received: header chain of the two received messages. Another possibility is duplication caused by filtering/sorting rules in the recipient's MUA. Depending on the exact rules, this could affect only some posts, but would not likely affect more than one user. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate posts?
It appears they are replying to all, as in the few header samples I've seen, there are two instances of the group address (in the To and CC fields). I have the setting checked to filter out duplicates, but still receiving complaints. Not sure how to handle this, as it seems to be on the user's end. C. On Nov 23, 2011, at 10:46 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: Mailman Admin wrote: On 2011-11-23 11:11, Carlos Palomino wrote: Several subscribers of my list are complaining of duplicate posts. They say it happens only sometimes. Are there any common reasons for such occurrences? I don't experience this on my test-member account or in my regularly subscribed address, so it's difficult to track down. Any ideas are appreciated. Perhaps this comes with users replying to all. So they send their reply to the user and the list. This will cause a duplicate if and only if the nodups setting of the recipient who is also directly addressed is off. In a default installation, this setting defaults to On for new subscribers, but the list admin can change it (new_member_options - Filter out duplicate messages to list members (if possible)), and individual members can change their own settings Other possibilities include cross posts to multiple lists of which the recipient is a member, and duplication in the delivery chain after the post has left Mailman. The latter may be detectable by comparing the Received: header chain of the two received messages. Another possibility is duplication caused by filtering/sorting rules in the recipient's MUA. Depending on the exact rules, this could affect only some posts, but would not likely affect more than one user. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate posts?
On 11/23/2011 4:11 AM, Carlos Palomino wrote: Hello all, Several subscribers of my list are complaining of duplicate posts. They say it happens only sometimes. Are there any common reasons for such occurrences? I don't experience this on my test-member account or in my regularly subscribed address, so it's difficult to track down. I run about 200 lists, so get this complaint fairly regularly. In virtually every case, or every case it turns out to be user error -- Mailman just doesn't send out duplicate posts, it seems to me. People may have subscribed under two different addresses, or in one case the user had a mail filter in place that was bad, and directed messages to two different places. Unsubscribe their address, and if they still get messages, have them forward to you with headers, so you can see what is going on at their end. Dave -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] archive_private locks up admin interface?
At 10:32 PM -0800 11/22/11, Mark Sapiro wrote: Daniel Griscom wrote: In the Archiving Options page, I found the archive_private setting. The description was a bit vague, but it seemed to be what I wanted, and currently was set to public. So, I set it to private, and submitted. Problem 2: boom! The Admin interface crashed, saying Bug in Mailman version 2.1.14 We're sorry, we hit a bug! Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. There's been some progress on the hosting support side: My apologies for the delay in responding, I've found the problem with the mailing lists and will correcting them shortly - I will update this ticket once it's been corrected for you. This is a result of a previously unknown cPanel migration bug that seems to have been around for quite a while unfortunately. I'll bring back anything I learn that might help make Mailman more robust. Thanks for the encouragement, Dan -- Daniel T. Griscom gris...@suitable.com Suitable Systems http://www.suitable.com/ 1 Centre Street, Suite 204(781) 665-0053 Wakefield, MA 01880-2400 -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate posts?
I seem to have the same problem. It only happens sometimes and to different users. Robert P. Schwartz 206 Cedar Pond Drive Madison, AL 35757 Phone: 256.830.2933 Cell: 256.509.2981 E-mail: rpsch...@knology.net -Original Message- From: mailman-users-bounces+rpschwar=knology@python.org [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+rpschwar=knology@python.org] On Behalf Of Carlos Palomino Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 12:09 PM To: Mailman-Users@python.org Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate posts? It appears they are replying to all, as in the few header samples I've seen, there are two instances of the group address (in the To and CC fields). I have the setting checked to filter out duplicates, but still receiving complaints. Not sure how to handle this, as it seems to be on the user's end. C. On Nov 23, 2011, at 10:46 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: Mailman Admin wrote: On 2011-11-23 11:11, Carlos Palomino wrote: Several subscribers of my list are complaining of duplicate posts. They say it happens only sometimes. Are there any common reasons for such occurrences? I don't experience this on my test-member account or in my regularly subscribed address, so it's difficult to track down. Any ideas are appreciated. Perhaps this comes with users replying to all. So they send their reply to the user and the list. This will cause a duplicate if and only if the nodups setting of the recipient who is also directly addressed is off. In a default installation, this setting defaults to On for new subscribers, but the list admin can change it (new_member_options - Filter out duplicate messages to list members (if possible)), and individual members can change their own settings Other possibilities include cross posts to multiple lists of which the recipient is a member, and duplication in the delivery chain after the post has left Mailman. The latter may be detectable by comparing the Received: header chain of the two received messages. Another possibility is duplication caused by filtering/sorting rules in the recipient's MUA. Depending on the exact rules, this could affect only some posts, but would not likely affect more than one user. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/rpschwar%40knology.net -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate posts?
Carlos Palomino wrote: It appears they are replying to all, as in the few header samples I've seen, there are two instances of the group address (in the To and CC fields). I have the setting checked to filter out duplicates, but still receiving complaints. Not sure how to handle this, as it seems to be on the user's end. It appears that the issue is you have your list setting reply_goes_to_list set to This list. Thus, posts received from the list are To: the list as sent by the original poster and have a Reply-To: the list added by Mailman. Then a recipient does a reply-all and the recipient's MUA generates a reply To: the list from the Reply-To: with Cc: the list from the original To:. Some MTAs will drop duplicate message recipients, but if none of the MTAs handling this message drop the duplicate, it will be delivered to the list twice, possibly archived twice (the archiver may drop a duplicate Message-ID:), appear twice in digests and be sent twice to message recipients. You can easily avoid this by setting reply_goes_to_list to Poster. This will solve the problem for the reply-all replies, but those who just reply will find their replies going to the poster rather than the list. This is really a user education problem, and can't be solved because no matter what you do, some users won't like it. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Duplicate posts?
Robert P. Schwartz wrote: I seem to have the same problem. It only happens sometimes and to different users. Tell the users that when they receive duplicates, they need to send copies of both messages including all headers to you - preferably forwarded as attachments, but any way that preserves all the headers is OK. Then you have to examine all the headers of both messages to determine where they diverge. The oldest Received: headers (the ones furthest from the top) and headers like Message-ID: and Date: should be the same, but at some point, the newer Received: headers will differ. This is where the duplication occurred. -- Mark Sapiro m...@msapiro.netThe highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Rather perplexing set of problems with a new 2.1.14 vhost install on a DirectAdmin box -- and I'm new to Mailman
Hi all,
After becoming frustrated with Majordomo I decided to install Mailman on a
DirectAdmin box I fell into managing. After some research I found Mark
Sapiro's 2.1.14 vhost port
(https://code.launchpad.net/~msapiro/mailman/vhost) which includes some
fixes and merges of virtual hosting patches to the 2.1.13 base; I followed
the instructions on
http://projects.ict4schools.nl/public/wiki/linux-alg/Installing_Mailman_on_D
irectAdmin and initial install seemed to finish OK.
I configured it with the default_email_host of lists.primarydomain.tld and
default_url_host of lists.primarydomain.tld (I'm obfuscating all URLs) in
mm_cfg.py; I also set up three additional virtualhosts in mm_cfg.py with the
add_virtualhost() command, let's call those lists.domain[2-4].tld.
I could load the mailman listinfo page -- and after a couple of small fixes
to Apache aliases, including realising that running check_perms -f on an
already-functional installation resets the permissions on /cgi-bin/ and
breaks the install, I thought I was up and running.
After checking DNS had refreshed, I could bring up the mailman/listinfo
welcome page for all of the domains configured. Having created the mailman
list as part of the installation at the command prompt without issue, and
received the email as expected, I went straight to the
http://lists.domain1.tld virtualhost and set up a new list named
'announce-test' via http://lists.domain1.tld/mailman/create;. This seemed
to work ok and threw no errors; however when clicking on the list from the
success page, I just got No such list announce-t...@domain1.tld. NB that
this error message also shows domain1.tld and not lists.domain1.tld as
expected, so it looks like it's ignored the subdomain -- why, I do not know.
I then went back to my email and noticed that mailman had sent me an
approval email with two attachments: the original confirm email and a
gate_news email, containing the following:
Traceback (most recent call last):
File /home/mailman/cron/gate_news, line 293, in ?
main()
File /home/mailman/cron/gate_news, line 268, in main
lock.lock(timeout=0.5)
File /home/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py, line 243, in lock
self.__write()
File /home/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py, line 422, in __write
fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/home/mailman/locks/gate_news.lock.node1.customhost.org.uk.12404.0'
The body of the main message reads:
As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the following
mailing list posting:
List:mail...@lists.primarydomain.tld
From:r...@sub.primarydomain.tld [note -- node1.primarydomain.tld
was the Xen subdomain assigned to the CentOS VPS when it was first
configured]
Subject: Cron mailman@node1 /usr/bin/python -S
/home/mailman/cron/gate_news
Reason: Post by non-member to a members-only list
At your convenience, visit:
http://lists.primarydomain.tld/mailman/admindb/mailman
to approve or deny the request.
If I then visit http://lists.primarydomain.tld/mailman/admindb/mailman
But attempting to log in with any password just shows Bug in Mailman
version 2.1.14 We're sorry, we hit a bug! and an indication to check
tracebacks and the Mailman error logs (which I have done, and can see
nothing untoward except this:
admin(17706): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(17706): File /home/mailman/scripts/driver, line 112, in run_main
admin(17706): main()
admin(17706): File /home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py, line 106, in
main
admin(17706): cgidata.getvalue('adminpw', '')):
admin(17706): File /home/mailman/Mailman/SecurityManager.py, line 244,
in WebAuthenticate
admin(17706): print self.MakeCookie(ac, user)
admin(17706): File /home/mailman/Mailman/SecurityManager.py, line 262,
in MakeCookie
admin(17706): path = parsed.path
admin(17706): AttributeError: 'tuple' object has no attribute 'path'
Calling 'list_lists' from the commandline shows 'announce-test' and
'mailman', as expected. The only thing I haven't done is added the list's
aliases yet to the 'aliases' file -- I'm guessing they need to go into
/etc/aliases rather than in a DirectAdmin /etc/virtual/domain aliases file
(which don't currently exist anyway, as the subdomains are only set up as A
records in DA's DNS management panel).
Finally, tailing /home/mailman/logs/error shows the following when I try to
load the announce-test listinfo page:
No such list announce-t...@domain1.tld:
I'm at my wit's end; I feel like I'm so close but I'm still building up my
Linux experience and this has gone beyond the scope of my current knowledge.
I really don't want to have to revert to Majordomo but I don't honestly know
what to look at yet to try and fix these misconfigurations.
Any help *greatly* appreciated -- happy to let people examine the system if
they so desire, I understand it's difficult chasing bugs without being able
to examine specific settings impromptu.
Regards
Chris
Re: [Mailman-Users] Rather perplexing set of problems with a new 2.1.14vhost install on a DirectAdmin box -- and I'm new to Mailman
Christopher Woods \(CustomMade\) wrote:
After becoming frustrated with Majordomo I decided to install Mailman on a
DirectAdmin box I fell into managing. After some research I found Mark
Sapiro's 2.1.14 vhost port
(https://code.launchpad.net/~msapiro/mailman/vhost) which includes some
fixes and merges of virtual hosting patches to the 2.1.13 base;
Why are you using the vhosts branch? Do you need to support separate
lists that have the same name but different domains? If not, don't use
the vhosts branch.
I followed
the instructions on
http://projects.ict4schools.nl/public/wiki/linux-alg/Installing_Mailman_on_DirectAdmin
and initial install seemed to finish OK.
I see these imply you need the vhosts branch if you have multiple
virtual hosts. This is not true in general and is only true if you
need list names which aren't globally unique.
I configured it with the default_email_host of lists.primarydomain.tld and
default_url_host of lists.primarydomain.tld (I'm obfuscating all URLs) in
mm_cfg.py; I also set up three additional virtualhosts in mm_cfg.py with the
add_virtualhost() command, let's call those lists.domain[2-4].tld.
I could load the mailman listinfo page -- and after a couple of small fixes
to Apache aliases, including realising that running check_perms -f on an
already-functional installation resets the permissions on /cgi-bin/ and
breaks the install, I thought I was up and running.
check_perms shouldn't break permissions on $prefix/cgi-bin/ unless you
had to change them for DirectAdmin.
After checking DNS had refreshed, I could bring up the mailman/listinfo
welcome page for all of the domains configured. Having created the mailman
list as part of the installation at the command prompt without issue, and
received the email as expected, I went straight to the
http://lists.domain1.tld virtualhost and set up a new list named
'announce-test' via http://lists.domain1.tld/mailman/create;. This seemed
to work ok and threw no errors; however when clicking on the list from the
success page, I just got No such list announce-t...@domain1.tld. NB that
this error message also shows domain1.tld and not lists.domain1.tld as
expected, so it looks like it's ignored the subdomain -- why, I do not know.
I don't offhand know either, but I think that the create CGI may not
work in this branch. It may be that you have to create all lists with
bin/newlist, and it too is unintuitive in that you need to both
specify the listname as a fully qualified posting address and specify
the --urlhost= option.
I then went back to my email and noticed that mailman had sent me an
approval email with two attachments: the original confirm email and a
gate_news email, containing the following:
Traceback (most recent call last):
File /home/mailman/cron/gate_news, line 293, in ?
main()
File /home/mailman/cron/gate_news, line 268, in main
lock.lock(timeout=0.5)
File /home/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py, line 243, in lock
self.__write()
File /home/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py, line 422, in __write
fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/home/mailman/locks/gate_news.lock.node1.customhost.org.uk.12404.0'
There is a permissions problem with gate_news which is run every 5
minutes by cron. gate_news is trying to create a lock and doesn't have
permission. The next issue is Mailman's cron jobs are running as user
'mailman' so the above error report from the cron job is mailed by
crond to 'mailman' which is a post to the 'mailman' list.
The body of the main message reads:
As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the following
mailing list posting:
List:mail...@lists.primarydomain.tld
From:r...@sub.primarydomain.tld [note -- node1.primarydomain.tld
was the Xen subdomain assigned to the CentOS VPS when it was first
configured]
Subject: Cron mailman@node1 /usr/bin/python -S
/home/mailman/cron/gate_news
Reason: Post by non-member to a members-only list
At your convenience, visit:
http://lists.primarydomain.tld/mailman/admindb/mailman
to approve or deny the request.
So errors from cron are being sent to the 'mailman' list. You can
configure this list to accept non-member posts or you can put
MAILTO=some...@example.com
at the beginning of Mailman's crontab to avoid this issue.
If I then visit http://lists.primarydomain.tld/mailman/admindb/mailman
But attempting to log in with any password just shows Bug in Mailman
version 2.1.14 We're sorry, we hit a bug! and an indication to check
tracebacks and the Mailman error logs (which I have done, and can see
nothing untoward except this:
admin(17706): Traceback (most recent call last):
admin(17706): File /home/mailman/scripts/driver, line 112, in run_main
admin(17706): main()
admin(17706): File /home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py, line 106, in
main
admin(17706): cgidata.getvalue('adminpw', '')):
admin(17706): File /home/mailman/Mailman/SecurityManager.py, line 244,
Re: [Mailman-Users] Rather perplexing set of problems with a new 2.1.14vhost install on a DirectAdmin box -- and I'm new to Mailman
If you really need the vhosts branch, I'll work with you on the problems, but if you can live with globally unique list names, I suggest you update your Python to 2.6.x and install either the 2.1.14-1 tarball from https://launchpad.net/mailman/+download or the head of the branch at https://code.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1. Crikey Mark, thanks for your great response especially given my inaugural post only made the list a couple of hours ago. Have to cop to it - part of the reason I went with that specific install guide was because I'm working in a DA environment (a little nonstandard to begin with). I was also, as you say, angling towards a setup where I could reuse list names -- or rather, not have to worry about clashes (long run, they'll be used for various promo and mailout lists to industry contacts which may well be the same). This VPS is a shared hosting environment too so I didn't think I could justify potentially denying another user a list name if it was common. However, if things just aren't working I see no reason in swimming through treacle until I have a slightly better understanding of Mailman's innards :-) Wondering if part of the problems are due to the OS (CentOS)... This VPS came specced with it, and I went along with the choice. Little was I aware of the development approach with regards to new and shiny... (this is your cue to all have a chuckle at my expense ;-) My installed Python is 2.4; python-devel was installed new today - but, of course, is still old. Installing the vhosts branch (via bazaar) did initially abort, prompt me to include the toolkit (available in the -devel branch) which I installed fresh before running make install for a second time. Trying yum update python just now, of course, it didn't offer me anything above what I already had -- because this is an old issue which I had no idea about (still on the uphill climb on the learning curve). Discussed here: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1465036/install-python-2-6-in-centos. Essentially for those unaware (probably just me), CentOS doesn't really like officially supporting latest versions of established software, opting instead for stability over new features (and backporting security fixes). Wreaks havoc if you want to use Python 2.6 because many parts of the OS depend on older versions of packages, including Python 2.4. From quickly skimreading the SO thread, it seems building python26 from source will be the simplest way... but will Mailman work fine if 2.6 is installed to coexist with 2.4 (which I'm reading is a dependency for things like yum?) I'm on the road all day tomorrow but I'll have a play, get 2.6 installed and then see what happens when I prod the current install. Failing that, I'll ditch it (thanking myself I backed up things like exim confs ;-) and try Mailman's standard flavour. Thanks so far, feel like I'm slowly making progress. (and I'll be glad to bid adieu to Majordomo) Chris -- Epilogue My reading for tomorrow evening so far is as follows: 1. http://chrislea.com/2009/09/09/easy-python-2-6-django-on-centos-5/ 2. http://www.geekymedia.com/tech-articles/rhel5-centos5-rpms-for-python-2-5-an d-2-6/ 3. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL If you have any more I should check out / bear in mind prior to additional fiddling I'll appreciate any gentle shepherding in the right direction. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Rather perplexing set of problems with a new 2.1.14vhost install on a DirectAdmin box -- and I'm new to Mailman
Christopher Woods \(CustomMade\) writes: Crikey Mark, thanks for your great response Yeah, +1 to that! Have to cop to it - part of the reason I went with that specific install guide was because I'm working in a DA environment (a little nonstandard to begin with). DA == disability assistance?wink I was also, as you say, angling towards a setup where I could reuse list names -- or rather, not have to worry about clashes (long run, they'll be used for various promo and mailout lists to industry contacts which may well be the same). This VPS is a shared hosting environment too so I didn't think I could justify potentially denying another user a list name if it was common. That sounds like a reasonable reason for using the vhost in the first place. I don't think you need to apologize, although you may have misunderstood precisely what the restrictions in vanilla Mailman 2 are (ML names must be unique per Mailman installation, so if you have a private Mailman installation you only have to worry about clashes with lists administered by you at the site level, and of course by domain -- which is an MTA restriction, you can't get around that by having multiple Mailmans serving the same domain). Wondering if part of the problems are due to the OS (CentOS)... Yes, in the sense you describe. However, other stable distros (Debian stable, RHEL) have similar restrictions (I don't know if they're as old as 2.4, but if recent Centos is on 2.4, RHEL probably is too). Ubuntu is a bit more recent, but given my friends' experience, I don't know if I'd conside even Ubuntu LTS stable. Wreaks havoc if you want to use Python 2.6 because many parts of the OS depend on older versions of packages, including Python 2.4. You should look into Python virtual environments. In at least one of the distros I use this is called virtualenv in the Python category. In a nutshell, it provides a semi-open sandbox (semi because Python is sandboxed to a specific version, but you use other system resources as usual, nothing so severe as a chroot or virtual machine). From quickly skimreading the SO thread, it seems building python26 from source will be the simplest way... but will Mailman work fine if 2.6 is installed to coexist with 2.4 (which I'm reading is a dependency for things like yum?) Yes, it will work, but the virtualenv may be a good way to get the configuration right. (You'll have to install Python 2.6 from source or a separate package anyway; virtualenv will only help with the configuration of the sandbox that you'll need to create.) -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Rather perplexing set of problems with a new 2.1.14vhost install on a DirectAdmin box -- and I'm new to Mailman
Christopher Woods (CustomMade) wrote: Wondering if part of the problems are due to the OS (CentOS)... This VPS came specced with it, and I went along with the choice. Little was I aware of the development approach with regards to new and shiny... (this is your cue to all have a chuckle at my expense ;-) My installed Python is 2.4; python-devel was installed new today - but, of course, is still old. The EPEL repository for RHEL/CentOS has a python26 package which might be of use to you. You'd need to tell your mailman build to use /usr/bin/python26 for that, but I think it should be workable. -- ToddOpenPGP - KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp ~~ Does it follow that I reject all authority? Perish the thought. In the matter of boots, I defer to the authority of the boot-maker. -- Mikhail Bakunin pgpmHslKocsZk.pgp Description: PGP signature -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
