[Mailman-Users] Mailman 3.0 wishlist: imap protocol support
Hello, As long as I'm requesting features, it'd be nice if the mailman archive was able to support access via the imap protocol. I would think it would make more sense to structure the archive in such a way that any old imap server could be used rather than build imap protocol support into mailman itself, but that's not for me to say. Regards, Karl Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Mailman 3.0 wishlist: Add "posting" into archiver (user database and mail sending)
Hi, Here's a wishlist item for mailman 3.0. I've no use for "web forums", but it seems that they are here to stay and sometimes a requirement. It occurs to me that if the mailman 3.0 archiver user interface had a "send mail" feature then it would, in essence, become a "web forum". (Especially if the archiver behaves as described in the todo list and displays all messages in a thread at once.) Of course it would need an authentication database but I presume that's already (for some value of already) built-in and integrated with the regular mailing list authentication database. If people want "forum only" access they'd need to turn off receipt of all mail in their user preferences. It might be nice if there was a configurable option that set this property one way or the other by default, as well as giving a new user the option to set the "send me mail" flag when using the web interface to sign on to a list. Regards, Karl Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Running two list with same email prefix
On 08/12/2009 10:24:50 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: > Andrea Cappelli wrote: > > >I'm running a mail server with Debian Lenny, MTA is Postfix and i > will > >use postfix-to-mailma.py script to run list > > > >I would set up Mailman for running mailing list with same email > prefix > >on different domains, obvious with different list names > > > >For example we have ml.domain1.com and ml.domain2.net, i would like > to > >have > > > >LISTADDRESS LISTNAME > >t...@ml.domain1.com tech-ml.domain1.com > >t...@ml.domain.2.net tech-ml.domain2.net > > > >In this way i can have the same address on differente domains and > >Mailman (my version is 2.1.11) can distinguish between lists because > the > >list name is different. The list name will be also used to access > web > >interface, so we have > > > >http://ml.domain1.com/mailman/admin/tech-ml.domain1.com > >http://ml.domain2.net/mailman/admin/tech-ml.domain2.net > > > >Is possible to accomplish this task? Any idea? > > > Yes, it is possible to do this. What you describe is almost exactly > what cPanel does in their modified Mailman. There are other patches > around, but IMO, none are totally satisfactory. At least one user has > recently posted that he is working on his own implementation. I got it working without any patching with a small change to postfix's configuration. http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/msg52616.html > > This feature, but not necessarily this implementation, will be in MM > 3. > > The main thing you need to do is arange for mail delivery > (postfix-to-mailman.py in your case) to deliver mail addressed to > l...@example.com, list-boun...@example.com, etc. and also > list-bounces+...@example.com and list-confirm+...@example.com to the > appropriate list-example.com list. > > Then the fun begins. If you want the 'correct' address in the List-* > headers, etc., that's a patch. Probably just to > MailList.getListAddress(). I think the postfix rewrite rules in the above post fix this also. I forget. Of course when it comes to the web interface there's lots of things that don't match up with how things look to the email user. Karl Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Pain, seeking Mailman/Postfix wisdom
On 02/27/2009 11:21:30 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: Karl O. Pinc wrote: > >I don't suppose there's an IRC channel related to mailman? See the bottom of the page at <http://www.list.org/devs.html>. That would be #mailman on irc.freenode.net. Does it make sense to ask user questions there too? The topic message indicates it's a generic mailman channel. I'm the one who's using browsers that are too old to edit the wiki so either somebody else will have to do it or I'll have to try to remember after I upgrade. Karl Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Pain, seeking Mailman/Postfix wisdom
On 02/26/2009 06:17:33 PM, Brad Knowles wrote: I think the problem is that there is too much documentation, and it's hard to know where to start. I believe the term is "information overload". I don't suppose there's an IRC channel related to mailman? I sometimes find that the low latency of IRC makes it a lot easier to clear up my mis-conceptions and set me on track to reading the right docs and so forth. I used to use mailing lists exclusively but now think that chat has it's place. Karl Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman installation and domains - confused
On 02/27/2009 02:51:51 AM, Oliver Glueck wrote: @Karl: postconf..don't show me the mailman aliases, only the default. (with configured 30_maps in /etc/univention/templates/files/etc/postfix/main.cf.d/ After I added this lines in postfix/main.cf postconf shows me the right entry, but it doesn't work. So the next step is using postmap -q to check that the entry has gotten into the hash db. Karl Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] mailman installation and domains - confused
Oliver Glueck's first post has the right config parameter, but it still wouldn't hurt to verify what postfix think's it's alias maps are: # postconf | grep ^alias_maps alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases Likewise, in the "verify assumptions" category, it would not hurt to see that postmap has the alias entry: # postmap -q about-dummy hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases "|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post about-dummy" Karl Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Setting a bind address for SMTP delivery
On 02/26/2009 09:52:52 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: However, I too am puzzled as to why there are unqualified non-local addresses to deal with at all. Because the whole point of this particular application of mailman is to receive and distribute mail from a system over which I have no control that is breaking the rules. A Microsoft based system wouldn't you know. Karl Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Setting a bind address for SMTP delivery
On 02/26/2009 09:41:40 AM, Brad Knowles wrote: Mark Sapiro wrote: SMTPHOST and SMTPPORT in mm_cfg.py. That controls where you send to, but not what address Mailman binds to when it sends to that host/port. As it turns out I set SMTPHOST to 127.0.0.2, and instead of the usual smtp line in /etc/postfix/master.cf I've these 3 lines: mypublicip:smtp inet n - - - - smtpd 127.0.0.1:smtp inet n - - - - smtpd 127.0.0.2:smtp inet n - - - - smtpd -o local_header_rewrite_clients=permit_tls_clientcerts -o relay_clientcerts= The latter prevents address rewriting by requiring tls authentication for rewriting and then preventing any such authentication. This is clunky. Postfix is much happier when such "bad" address rewriting is triggered by the client's IP. Karl Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Setting a bind address for SMTP delivery
On 02/26/2009 12:29:33 AM, Brad Knowles wrote: on 2/25/09 11:53 PM, Karl O. Pinc said: Or do you think that an MTA should re-write all addresses and fully qualify them with the local domain, regardless of whether the mail was received from the Internet for delivery to a local user? I don't mean to put words in your mouth but that seems to be the only alternative. That's not the only solution to this problem, but most of the time it is the simplest and easiest to implement. If you always use fully-qualified names across the board, then there can't ever be any question of whether or not something belongs in one place or another. Tacking my domain name on somebody else's email address puts it in the wrong place. Better to leave it alone. The Postfix author seem to agree. Postfix has changed so that the default is to rewrites only the mail sent by local users. For the rationale and further detail see: http://www.postfix.org/ADDRESS_REWRITING_README.html#william You are correct, there is no right answer. I am able to configure Postfis so that Mailman mail is not rewritten, but it would be more straightforward if Mailman had another knob to frob. I will see what happens and if there are too many problems then I'll change the rewriting rules. (I'd tend to favor bouncing such incoming email. But given the application that's not an option.) Thank you for the input. It has been helpful. Karl Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein P.S. FYI. I'm pretty confidant it's Microsoft software that's causing this headache, although I couldn't say whether it's Outlook or Exchange. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Setting a bind address for SMTP delivery
On 02/25/2009 11:07:46 PM, Brad Knowles wrote: on 2/25/09 10:28 PM, Karl O. Pinc said: This causes a problem with mailman, because mailman is sending mail from the local box any addresses that come in without @domain on the end (for whatever reason) gets rewritten when mailman re-sends the mail to the list. This is a problem to fix in your MTA, before the message ever gets to Mailman. Your MTA should be ensuring that all addresses are properly fully qualified, either when it reads the message from the sender, or after the sender has sent the message and it does internal processing. This really isn't a problem that can be solved from within Mailman. I agree, but the problem is that an MTA shouldn't be re-writing addresses in mail that it receives from external sources, that is, the Internet. Mail sent from a _local_ source should be re-written by the MTA to be properly fully qualified. So, I need to figure out how to pretend that mail re-sent by Mailman is mail that is, effectively, from an external source. That means Mailman needs to do something different so the MTA can distinguish the mail Mailman sends from " regular" mail sent locally from the box. Or do you think that an MTA should re-write all addresses and fully qualify them with the local domain, regardless of whether the mail was received from the Internet for delivery to a local user? I don't mean to put words in your mouth but that seems to be the only alternative. Somebody else out there is mis-behaving and I've got to deal with the consequences. It would be easiest to tell the Postfix MTA that the mail that Mailman sends is not of local origin if Mailman could be set to bind to a particular IP when sending mail via SMTP. Thanks for the reply. Karl Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
[Mailman-Users] Setting a bind address for SMTP delivery
Hi, I'm wondering if there's a way to set the address that mailman binds to when sending SMTP. Here's the background: I'm using postfix as a MTA. When postfix receives mail containing addresses that have no @domain part, and the mail is sent from the local box, it automatically adds @whateverthelocaldomainis to the end of all header and envelope addresses. This causes a problem with mailman, because mailman is sending mail from the local box any addresses that come in without @domain on the end (for whatever reason) gets rewritten when mailman re-sends the mail to the list. There's various ways around the problem, ways to keep postfix from re-writing the addresses. I think the simplest would be if I could control the address from which mailman sends it's mail, say if mailman binds to 127.0.0.2 instead of 127.0.0.1 when it sends it's mail. But I don't see a knob I can frob to control this. (Postfix seems to prefer to base it's address re-writing decision on the IP of the SMTP client.) At the moment I happen to be running Debian etch, which has a 2.1 based mailman version. I soon hope to be running something newer. Thanks. Karl Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] User Commands
On 02/11/2009 10:40:50 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote: Karl O. Pinc wrote: > >> Gets you all the lists that f...@example.com is subscribed to. So does bin/find_member f...@example.com and much more simply. And I'm sure more efficiently too. My bad. Karl Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] User Commands
On 02/10/2009 02:07:23 PM, Karl O. Pinc wrote: On 02/10/2009 10:20:51 AM, Brian Canty wrote: I was wondering if anyone knows of any command you can use to find out who is subscribed to all mailman lists. Somehow the "cut" command got mangled. Should be: list_lists \ | tail -n +2 \ | awk '{print $1;}' \ | xargs -n 1 bash -c 'list_members $0 | xargs -n 1 echo $0:' \ | grep f...@example.com \ | cut -d : -f 1 Gets you all the lists that f...@example.com is subscribed to. Karl Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Wiki editing in debian etch
On 02/11/2009 01:18:15 AM, Brad Knowles wrote: on 2/10/09 7:28 PM, Karl O. Pinc said: I'm running Debian Etch and simply cannot edit the wiki. Iceweasel (aka firefox) and konqurer have different problems. What problems are you having with Iceweasel? Firefox works fine for me on all the platforms I've tested, and I'm pretty sure I've used Safari and other webkit-based browsers as well. The edit box is 23 characters wide and 2 high. The wiki markup and preview buttons do nothing, although mouseover does make them change color tone. The edit box has none of the little icons above it that show up in konquerer. This is version 2.0.0.19. So, old. I could send a screenshot if you like. (Konquerer complains that the page you are trying to edit does not exist.) Karl Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
[Mailman-Users] Wiki editing in debian etch
Hi, I'm running Debian Etch and simply cannot edit the wiki. Iceweasel (aka firefox) and konqurer have different problems. I'll eventually update to Lenny. In the meantime is there a workaround? I'm trying to edit: http://wiki.list.org/display/DOC/From+field+displayed+by+Microsoft+Outlook The postfix solution to the MS Outlook from "by way of" display problem is to have postfix remove the Sender header. This is done by adding something like "header_checks = regexp:/etc/postfix/header_checks" to /etc/postfix/main.cf and then putting: /^Sender: +[^ @]+-bounces@/ IGNORE into /etc/postfix/header_checks. Karl Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] User Commands
On 02/10/2009 10:20:51 AM, Brian Canty wrote: I was wondering if anyone knows of any command you can use to find out who is subscribed to all mailman lists. list_lists | tail -n +2 | awk '{print $1;}' | xargs -n 1 list_members | sort -u Gets you all the members of all the lists. list_lists \ | tail -n +2 \ | awk '{print $1;}' \ | xargs -n 1 bash -c 'list_members $0 | xargs -n 1 echo $0:' \ | grep f...@example.com \ | cut -d f 1 Gets you all the lists that f...@example.com is subscribed to. Karl Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Re: [Mailman-Users] Two lists: same name, different domain -- the postfix way
On 02/09/2009 04:35:12 PM, Karl O. Pinc wrote: Hello, I've been wanting 2 different mailing lists with the same name, each on a different domain. The idea is to use postifx's canonical mapping to re-write the email addresses on all inbound list traffic to "secondary" domains to add a "tag" to the user part of the address. And then do the reverse to outbound list traffic. Where this fits into the postfix data flow can be seen in the diagrams at the Postfix Architecture Overview, http://www.postfix.org/OVERVIEW.html. It is the cleanup(8) daemon that rewrites addresses according to the canonical mappings. Karl Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
[Mailman-Users] Two lists: same name, different domain -- the postfix way
Hello, I've been wanting 2 different mailing lists with the same name, each on a different domain. This configuration is not supported in the stock mailman (pre 3.0), but it occurs to me that there is a workaround when the MTA is postfix. It's a bit of a kludge, but I think it will work. I'm interested in what the list thinks. Note: I have not tested this. I've done a little bit of testing on the outbound mail part, and it seems to work. It happens that the mail architecture in use is forwarding list traffic to the mailman server, so the inbound translations are handled by the forwarder and I don't need the inbound mail part. I'm running Debian Etch. First off, FWIW, in debian mailman comes integrated out of the box with postfix so mailman automatically maintains all it's aliases. This is done via a transport map and postfix-to-mailman.py; any mail sent to the box's "regular domain" is run through mailman. The idea is to use postifx's canonical mapping to re-write the email addresses on all inbound list traffic to "secondary" domains to add a "tag" to the user part of the address. And then do the reverse to outbound list traffic. This is best illustrated by way of example. Suppose you want 2 lists, f...@example.com and f...@example.net. The "regular" domain for the box is example.com. Make two lists: foo and foo-examplenet. In /etc/postfix/main.cf put the lines: recipient_canonical_maps = pcre:/etc/postfix/recipient_canonical_domains sender_canonical_maps = pcre:/etc/postfix/sender_canonical_domains In /etc/postfix/recipient_canonical_domains put: /^foo(-.+)?...@example.net$/ foo-examplenet$...@example.com In /etc/postfix/sender_canonical_domains put: /^(.*)-examplenet(-(.*))@example.com$/ ${1]$...@example.net Mail that comes in as f...@example.net (or e.g. foo-subscr...@example.net) is readdressed to foo-example...@example.com (or foo-examplenet-subscr...@example.com). It's then delivered to mailman's foo-examplenet list just like normal. Outbound mail sent from the list comes from foo-example...@example.com but all the addresses are rewritten so as to come from f...@example.net. I don't know whether rfc2369 headers are rewritten by postfix's canonical mapping, I suppose it depends on whether postfix is rfc2369 aware. Anyway, that's simple enough to take care of with header_checks, pcre patterns like those above, and the REPLACE action. I think this would work on both inbound and outbound..., right? The limitations are you can't have any email addresses in @example.com that have '-examplenet' in the user part, and you can't have any foo-.* user names in @example.net (besides the mailing list.) This seems a lot more straightforward to setup and maintain than running multiple instances of mailman, which is the only other solution I know of. All that's needed for maintenance is to add a line for any new lists to recipient_canonical_domains and sender_canonical_domains and otherwise everything works "as it should". If the "secondary" domains have no users, only mailing lists, you can construct a pcre that rewrites all inbound/outbound mail to/from the domains and there's no work involved when adding a mailing list. Regards, Karl Free Software: "You don't pay back, you pay forward." -- Robert A. Heinlein -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9