[Mailman-Users] how to change email address

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Teijo writes:
 > Hello,
 > 
 > 
 > I am unsure how to change my email address where messages of this list 
 > are emailed.

Visit https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/
and log in ("sign in" at the upper right, using any of your registered
email addresses as the user, or some social account login).  Then
visit your profile (the small downward pointing triangle at the
personal avatar at the upper right).  If you have not yet registered
the new address, do so using the "link another address" link at the
bottom of the other emails list.  You may need to validate this
address to subscribe.  Then use the "manage lists" item at the upper
right (to the left of the search box) to find this mailing list and
change your address there.

Steve

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[Mailman-Users] how to change email address

[Teijo]

Hello,


I am unsure how to change my email address where messages of this list 
are emailed.



Best regards,


Teijo

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[Mailman-Users] How to determine moderation flag from config.pck

[Russell Clemings]

I'm trying to figure out how to extract the moderation flag for each user
in a list's config.pck file.

I know from Defaults.py that it's in the "Bitfield for user options"
section (below). But for a config.pck with the following:

'user_options': {'rclemings+20230...@gmail.com': 296,
 'rclemings+authus...@gmail.com': 392,
 'rclemings+authu...@gmail.com': 408,
 'rclemi...@gmail.com': 328},

How can I tell which ones are moderated? Automatically, I mean.

I know the "moderated" value is 128, but I don't understand how (or if it's
even possible) to pull out the value for a single flag.

# Bitfield for user options.  See DEFAULT_NEW_MEMBER_OPTIONS above to set
# defaults for all new lists.
Digests = 0 # handled by other mechanism, doesn't need a flag.
DisableDelivery = 1 # Obsolete; use set/getDeliveryStatus()
DontReceiveOwnPosts = 2 # Non-digesters only
AcknowledgePosts= 4
DisableMime = 8 # Digesters only
ConcealSubscription = 16
SuppressPasswordReminder = 32
ReceiveNonmatchingTopics = 64
Moderate = 128
DontReceiveDuplicates = 256


-- 
===
Russell Clemings

===
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[Mailman-Users] How to find out the last time an email list was used?

[Bruce Johnson via Mailman-Users]

We have a large number of lists (~200) that have been set up over the years; 
the vast majority do NOT have web archives. Is there any way to determine when 
the last time the list had any traffic?
-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

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[Mailman-Users] How to wrap text in archived messages

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Mark Dale via Mailman-Users writes:

 > I'm looking for a way to wrap lines in archived messages.

Executive summary: There's not really a good way to do this.  It's
extremely complicated, *especially* in email (as opposed to most
"normal" text) because of quoting conventions in email.

 > With zero understanding of Python my attempts to implement this
 > have failed so far and I may well be barking up the wrong tree
 > completely. Any clues or pointers gratefully received.

It's not your lack of Python, it's that reliably reformatting email
for different formats of email is a *very* hard problem in natural
language processing, and requires some knowledge of message user agent
internals.  And that's why Pipermail punts by just wrapping the whole
thing in a PRE element.  Works for Mutt users (= Unix email elders).

Gory details follow (because I think it's an interesting problem!)

 > Looking at the HTML page source -- in both cases (wrapped and
 > unwrapped) I see the message content is enclosed by PRE tags.

Right.  PRE is not very pretty as HTML goes, but it works OK for all
RFC-conforming text/plain email.  I assume that that in fact this
comes from text/plain parts created by the author's MUA, because the
agents that we use to transform a text/html part to text/plain will
format to a reasonable width such as 72 characters.

 > And the lines in that block that seem responsible for the PRE tags are ...
 > 
 > lines.insert(0, '')
 > lines.append('')
 > 
 > My question is: Can those PRE tags be removed and replaced with
 > something equivalent to PHP's "nl2br" (which inserts a line break
 > BR in place of new line entries)?

No, because there *are no* newlines to break those very long lines.
These MUAs use newline to mean "paragraph break", not "line break".

You might get a better result in these messages by removing the "PRE"
tags, and wrapping each line with "...", but that's a real
hack, and almost certain to make RFC-conforming email look quite ugly,
because every line becomes a paragraph, and you'll lose all
indentation.  Eg, in the code blocks you posted, all the lines will
end up flush left.  If your members are posting code or poetry, or
using indented block quotations etc, they're likely to be extremely
unhappy with the result.

Python's standard library does have a textwrap module, but I'm not at
all sure it's suitable for this.  If you know that the long lines of a
message are actually paragraphs, you can use something like

from textwrap import wrap
# work backward because wrapping changes indicies of later lines
for i in range(len(lines) - 1, -1, -1):
# NDT = detect_prefix(lines[i])
lines[i:i+1] = wrap(lines[i], initial_indent=NDT, subsequent_indent=NDT)

If a line is indented or has a quoting prefix, you have to detect that
for yourself and set NDT to that prefix.  Something like

import re
prefix_re = re.compile('[ >]*')
def detect_prefix(line):
m = prefix_re.match(line)
return m.group(0)

should capture most indentation and quoting prefixes, but there are
other conventions.

Whether you use P elements or the textwrap module, it's probably a
good idea to find out how long the long lines are, and what percentage
of the message they are, and avoid trying to wrap a message that looks
like it "mostly" has lines of reasonable length.  If you don't, and
your target is the old "typewriter standard" width of 66, and somebody
using an RFC-conforming MUA just prefers 72, you'll reformat their
mail into alternating lines of about 60 characters and 10 characters.
Yuck ...

Which of the above would work better for you depends a lot on the
typical content of your list.  But issues with quoting and indentation
are likely to have you tearing your hair out.

Steve
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[Mailman-Users] How to wrap text in archived messages

[Mark Dale via Mailman-Users]

Hi,

I'm looking for a way to wrap lines in archived messages.

Messages from some mail clients (eg. Gmail) have their lines wrapped to 72 
chars in the archived version, while archived messages from others (eg. 
Thunderbird, Outlook) display unwrapped lines forcing the reader to scroll 
horizontally.

Looking at the HTML page source -- in both cases (wrapped and unwrapped) I see 
the message content is enclosed by PRE tags. 




Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur ...

Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud ...


  



The template (article.html) contains the following:
...


%(body)s


...

>From what I can figure out, the PRE tags come from
>.../mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperArch.py in a block of code lines 1290 to 
>1314 ...

///

def format_article(self, article):
# called from add_article
# TBD: Why do the HTML formatting here and keep it in the
# pipermail database?  It makes more sense to do the html
# formatting as the article is being written as html and toss
# the data after it has been written to the archive file.
lines = filter(None, article.body)
# Handle   directives
if self.ALLOWHTML:
self.__processbody_HTML(lines)
self.__processbody_URLquote(lines)
if not self.SHOWHTML and lines:
lines.insert(0, '')
lines.append('')
else:
# Do fancy formatting here
if self.SHOWBR:
lines = map(lambda x:x + "", lines)
else:
for i in range(0, len(lines)):
s = lines[i]
if s[0:1] in ' \t\n':
lines[i] = '' + s
article.html_body = lines
return article




And the lines in that block that seem responsible for the PRE tags are ...

lines.insert(0, '')
lines.append('')

My question is: Can those PRE tags be removed and replaced with something 
equivalent to PHP's "nl2br" (which inserts a line break BR in place of new line 
entries)?

A Google search for such an equivalent gives me ...

def nl2br(s):
return '\n'.join(s.split('\n'))

With zero understanding of Python my attempts to implement this have failed so 
far and I may well be barking up the wrong tree completely. Any clues or 
pointers gratefully received.

Thanks.
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[Mailman-Users] How do I send an email to all list admins?

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Ralf Hildebrandt writes:

 > How do I send an email to all list admins?

AFAIK, one by one, or you could make a mailing list for them.  I guess
you could save them one message by putting your announcement in the
welcome message.

I think the original idea of the mail...@list.example.net list was to
put the admins there.  You'd have to do it by hand, and pretty much
nobody seems to do that.  I don't recall anybody asking for this
before, although I'm pretty sure it occasionally comes up.

In Mailman 3 we could make a feature of this, but Mailman 2 is EOL, so
it won't happen there.  I'm not sure this is worth it since you'd need
to configure all the options anyway (I'm not sure there are obvious
defaults for a lot of them), so getting the list of lists is
the least time-consuming part of the task.

In Mailman 3, perhaps we could make it easier to get the list of lists
(or maybe the site admin can already get it in the top listinfo page).

Steve

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[Mailman-Users] How do I send an email to all list admins?

[Ralf Hildebrandt]

How do I send an email to all list admins?

I need to inform all list admins about a change concerning the
"advertised" option (basically I want them to opt-in)

I could use "bin/list_lists" and process the output by adding
"-owner@domain" and make a list out of it -- but is there an easier
way?
--
Ralf Hildebrandt
Charité - Universitätsmedizin Berlin
Geschäftsbereich IT | Abteilung Netzwerk

Campus Benjamin Franklin (CBF)
Haus I | 1. OG | Raum 105
Hindenburgdamm 30 | D-12203 Berlin

Tel. +49 30 450 570 155
ralf.hildebra...@charite.de
https://www.charite.de
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[Mailman-Users] How to delete large numbers of held messages

[lists--- via Mailman-Users]

We had a mail loop on one of our lists and ended up with over 51k messages in 
pending (held due to post not form a list member)

Trying to delete them from the web UI will take forever, as the largest 
pagination you can view is 200 at a time.

Tried to delete them from the Python interactive shell, but it looks like the 
API times out after a while.

Is there another way to delete all these unwanted held posts?

The problem comes after executing:


reqs = list(adminlist.held)


After a couple of minutes it comes back with:


Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/urllib3/connectionpool.py", line 699, in 
urlopen
httplib_response = self._make_request(
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/urllib3/connectionpool.py", line 445, in 
_make_request
six.raise_from(e, None)
  File "", line 3, in raise_from
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/urllib3/connectionpool.py", line 440, in 
_make_request
httplib_response = conn.getresponse()
  File "/usr/lib/python3.9/http/client.py", line 1347, in getresponse
response.begin()
  File "/usr/lib/python3.9/http/client.py", line 307, in begin
version, status, reason = self._read_status()
  File "/usr/lib/python3.9/http/client.py", line 276, in _read_status
raise RemoteDisconnected("Remote end closed connection without"
http.client.RemoteDisconnected: Remote end closed connection without response

During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/requests/adapters.py", line 439, in send
resp = conn.urlopen(
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/urllib3/connectionpool.py", line 755, in 
urlopen
retries = retries.increment(
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/urllib3/util/retry.py", line 532, in 
increment
raise six.reraise(type(error), error, _stacktrace)
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/six.py", line 718, in reraise
raise value.with_traceback(tb)
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/urllib3/connectionpool.py", line 699, in 
urlopen
httplib_response = self._make_request(
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/urllib3/connectionpool.py", line 445, in 
_make_request
six.raise_from(e, None)
  File "", line 3, in raise_from
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/urllib3/connectionpool.py", line 440, in 
_make_request
httplib_response = conn.getresponse()
  File "/usr/lib/python3.9/http/client.py", line 1347, in getresponse
response.begin()
  File "/usr/lib/python3.9/http/client.py", line 307, in begin
version, status, reason = self._read_status()
  File "/usr/lib/python3.9/http/client.py", line 276, in _read_status
raise RemoteDisconnected("Remote end closed connection without"
urllib3.exceptions.ProtocolError: ('Connection aborted.', 
RemoteDisconnected('Remote end closed connection without response'))

During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/mailmanclient/restbase/connection.py", 
line 107, in call
response = request(
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/requests/api.py", line 61, in request
return session.request(method=method, url=url, **kwargs)
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/requests/sessions.py", line 542, in 
request
resp = self.send(prep, **send_kwargs)
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/requests/sessions.py", line 655, in send
r = adapter.send(request, **kwargs)
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/requests/adapters.py", line 498, in send
raise ConnectionError(err, request=request)
requests.exceptions.ConnectionError: ('Connection aborted.', 
RemoteDisconnected('Remote end closed connection without response'))

During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
  File 
"/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/mailmanclient/restobjects/mailinglist.py", line 
123, in held
response, content = self._connection.call(
  File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/mailmanclient/restbase/connection.py", 
line 135, in call
raise MailmanConnectionError(
mailmanclient.restbase.connection.MailmanConnectionError: ('Could not connect 
to Mailman API: ', "ConnectionError(ProtocolError('Connection aborted.', 
RemoteDisconnected('Remote end closed connection without response')))")

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[Mailman-Users] How to Hide List from Public 100%

[Darth Vader via Mailman-Users]

Hello,
I created a brand new mailman list on dreamhost.
The list is supposed to be private and not visible online or to the public at 
all.
Currently there are general list info pages, archives, etc.

This is what I need:

testl...@example.org 
When one of the members emails that list, their email gets sent to all the 
members (obviously).
Members cannot see names/email addresses of any members.
When they reply to a message, the reply goes to the sender.
I as the admin can only add/remove members.
There is not supposed to be a web interface for any members.
Nobody can change any of their own settings.
No messages get posted publicly at all. No one on the internet can view them - 
the only way to see them is logged in as admin or in the member’s email 
inboxes. Once again, no propagation/archives/news etc. at all anywhere else.

The goal for this is to be a simple private communications list between members 
(less than 40).

I am new to mailman so I would really appreciate anyone’s help with this.

Thank you

D.V.
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[Mailman-Users] How to let everything from any real address through to a list

[Thomas Gramstad]

Hi,

I'm seeking to replace an out-of-domain .forward file, which is
an outdated solution, with a secret mailing list with myself as
the only subscriber. So I have created the mailing list
thomas@domain, and I want the list address to let everything from
any genuine mail address through to me. Spam filtering happens
elsewhere.

So I'm looking at:

List of non-member addresses whose postings should be
automatically accepted.

If I put this regex there: ^\S+@\S+$ would that accomplish what I
want -- letting everything through, only checking that the sender
address exists? (Even that check could be done elsewhere though.)

Thomas Gramstad
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[Mailman-Users] How to Fix Hotmail and Outlook to Allow "Safe Mailing Lists"

[Michael Reeder LCPC -- Hygeia Regular]

/For your education and possible amusement...//
//
//I am the list administrator for a GNU Mailman list of about 750 
psychotherapists, most of them aged 60- to 80-years-old.//

//
//These are very, very capable people -- not all of whom are highly 
computer-savvy.//

//
//I was recently aghast to discover that not only does Hotmail still 
exist (!?), but that about 40 of our active members have Hotmail 
accounts.  (!!!???)//

//
//The following is a fix for how Hotmail users can set up "Safe Mailing 
Lists" so as to keep your mailing lists from being blocked by Hotmail.  
I pursued this after checking with Microsoft to make sure my domain was 
not being entirely blocked as a spammer domain.//

//
//Just in case you have any Hotmail users...//
//
/ Forwarded Message 

Dear Hotmail Users:

A few weeks ago I wrote asking for feedback as to whether or not you are 
receiving the Clinicians Exchange email list messages. Some Hotmail 
users wrote back that they ARE receiving list messages.  Some Hotmail 
users wrote back that they ARE NOT receiving list messages.  This has 
been a perplexing problem.  I believe we now have a fix (read on to see 
what to do).


The issue is that Hotmail (and Outlook) have an automatic filter rule 
that filters out all mailing lists where the mailing list address is not 
your individual address.  So anything addressed to 
"clinicians-excha...@clinicians-exchange.org" is thrown away since its 
not addressed to your individual email address (such as 
"sm...@smith.com" -- even though you are on the list).  I believe that 
Hotmail seems to just discard everything to the "bit bucket in the sky" 
without an error message and without placing such messages in a Junk or 
Spam folder for possible retrieval.


This is specifically a Hotmail problem and is correctable in a 
non-obvious way requiring many steps.


Here are the steps in written form.  I have attached a .pdf document 
with the steps illustrated by pictures:


*Setting Up "Safe Mailing Lists" In Hotmail and Outlook**
*
STEP #1: From the Inbox of your online Hotmail or Outlook email account, 
click on the "Settings" wheel in the upper right-hand corner of the page.


STEP #2: In the "Settings" dropdown control dialogue box on the 
right-hand side of the screen, scroll down to the bottom of the list 
(likely off-screen when you first start) and select "View all Outlook 
Settings".


STEP #3: When the controls for "View all Outlook settings" pop-up in a 
dialogue box, click on "Junk Mail".


STEP #4: When the "Junk Mail" controls dialogue box pops-up, scroll down 
to the "Safe Mailing Lists" section (which will likely be off-screen 
until you scroll down).


STEP #5: Click on "Add".  Enter 
"clinicians-excha...@lists.clinicians-exchange.org" and press the 
"Enter" key on your keyboard.  Click on "Add" again and enter 
"clinicians-excha...@clinicians-exchange.org" and press the "Enter" key 
again.  Make sure to click the blue "Save" button at the bottom right of 
the screen.


You are done!  Close dialogue boxes and go back to your inbox.

Please see attached .pdf for an illustrated version.

Some Hotmail users seem to have no problem receiving our list even when 
these "Safe Mailing List" steps are not implemented.  It's weird.


Thanks,
Michael Reeder
Moderator Team
PREFERRED: clinicians-exchange-ow...@clinicians-exchange.org
PERSONAL: mich...@hygeiacounseling.com

*Michael Reeder, LCPC
*
*Hygeia Counseling Services : Baltimore / Mt. Washington Village location*
*410-205-2419 / michael(at)hygeiacounseling.com*
*http://www.hygeiacounseling.com - main website.
*


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[Mailman-Users] How to prevent moderation queue from rewriting From:-field?

[Thomas Gramstad]

When a message to one of my unmoderated lists for some reason 
ends up in the moderation queue and I approve it, somehow the 
From:-field is rewritten like this:



-- Forwarded message --
From: Helge Høivik via Biblioteknorge



How can I prevent this from happening, so that the original From: 
field is preserved unchanged, as if the message went straight 
through to the list?


Thomas Gramstad
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[Mailman-Users] How get UTF-8 in web interface

[Johannes Rohr]

Dear all,

I am looking for a way to ensure that everything is in proper UTF-8 in
the web interface Specifically, my problem is that messages from gettext
for German are inserted in ISO-8859-1 while for other languages I have
tested, including Norwegian and Russian, mailman seems to generate
proper UTF-8, even without explicitly enabling UTF-8 in mm_cfg.py.

As an example, take
https://lists.uferwerk.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/huehner

"Um frühere Nachrichten an diese Liste zu sehen, besuchen Sie bitte das
Archiv der Liste Huehner
. (/Das
aktuelle Archiv ist nur f�r die Abonnenten der Liste zug�nglich./)"

When I inspect the source code of the German page, I see that part of
the umlauts are properly encoded as html entities such as , 
and others are not, they are plain ISO-8819-1 and thusly get screwed up,
when the browser interprets the page as UTF-8. They seem to be inserted
on-the-fly by the python interpreter, from
/var/lib/mailman/messages/de/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po  and I notice that
/var/lib/mailman/messages/de/LC_MESSAGES/mailman.po is in ISO-8859-1,
not in UTF-8.

In mm_cfg.py I have done what the manual recommends
.
Without it, the message strings get rendered correctly, while the list
descriptions from the configuration, which are apparently in UTF-8 get
rendered as two letter strings: "*Huehner -- Liste für alle
Hühner-Eltern im Uferwerk".*

Can someone maybe tell me what I can do to reconcile this apparent mismatch?

Thanks so much in advance,

Johannes

*
*


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Re: [Mailman-Users] how to disable main mailman-request and mailman list without stopping mailman functionality

[Mark Sapiro]

On 2/2/20 6:15 AM, Jürgen Dollinger wrote:


Additionally if the spammers use the web interface it does not help. I
had this problem: Somebody found it funny to try hundred times a day
curl http://mydom.example.org/mailman/subscribe/mailman?email=vic...@example.com
I solved it by setting SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET="some_ranmdom_string" in
/etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py .



I'm glad SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET worked in your case, but it doesn't 
always. See the thread at 
.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] how to disable main mailman-request and mailman list without stopping mailman functionality

[Jürgen Dollinger]

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Add the following lines to /etc/aliases
> 
> mailman-admin:   /dev/null
> mailman-bounces: /dev/null

If you have mebership reminders active on other mailinglists this is a
problem because you dont get the bounces.

Additionally if the spammers use the web interface it does not help. I
had this problem: Somebody found it funny to try hundred times a day 
curl 
http://mydom.example.org/mailman/subscribe/mailman?email=vic...@example.com 
I solved it by setting SUBSCRIBE_FORM_SECRET="some_ranmdom_string" in 
/etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py .

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Re: [Mailman-Users] how to disable main mailman-request and mailman list without stopping mailman functionality

[Mark Sapiro]

On 1/28/20 3:13 AM, Jelle de Jong wrote:


On 2020-01-27 15:52, Mark Sapiro wrote:


It depends on how your MTA deliveres to Mailman. If it uses aliases, 
you can change the mailman-request alias in mailman's aliases, but if 
Mailman automatically generates these, that may get undone. A better 
approach is to put an alias for the mailman-request and maybe other 
mailman- addresses in an alias file that is processed before Mailman's 
aliases or delivery. You can use these to send the mail to /dev/null 
or to some user or mailbox if you want to see the mail.


So how can I make a alias for all mailman- addresses that go to /dev/null?



Assuming your MTA is configured to use /etc/aliases and puts it before 
Mailman's data/aliases.


Add the following lines to /etc/aliases

mailman-admin:   /dev/null
mailman-bounces: /dev/null
mailman-confirm: /dev/null
mailman-join:/dev/null
mailman-leave:   /dev/null
mailman-owner:   /dev/null
mailman-request: /dev/null
mailman-subscribe:   /dev/null
mailman-unsubscribe: /dev/null

And then run `newaliases`

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Re: [Mailman-Users] how to disable main mailman-request and mailman list without stopping mailman functionality

[Jelle de Jong]

Thank you Mark for taking the time to reply, much appreciated.

On 2020-01-27 15:52, Mark Sapiro wrote:

On 1/26/20 9:03 AM, Jelle de Jong wrote:


PS. I had mailman not advertised by default but some Debian update a 
while back seem to have made it advertised. I disabled the advertising 
of the list but the spam keeps coming. Maybe disable advertising by 
default for the mailman default list?


First, advertised or not, it is well known that every Mailman 2.1 
installation has a site list, usually called mailman. Also the 
mail...@example.com address is exposed on both the listinfo and admin 
overview pages in the web UI.



What are the recommended steps?


It depends on how your MTA deliveres to Mailman. If it uses aliases, you 
can change the mailman-request alias in mailman's aliases, but if 
Mailman automatically generates these, that may get undone. A better 
approach is to put an alias for the mailman-request and maybe other 
mailman- addresses in an alias file that is processed before Mailman's 
aliases or delivery. You can use these to send the mail to /dev/null or 
to some user or mailbox if you want to see the mail.


So how can I make a alias for all mailman- addresses that go to /dev/null?

mailman version 1:2.1.23-1+deb9u4

# /usr/lib/mailman/bin/genaliases --help
Regenerate Mailman specific aliases from scratch.

Does not give me much useful informaiton.

Kind regards,

Jelle de Jong
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Re: [Mailman-Users] how to disable main mailman-request and mailman list without stopping mailman functionality

[Mark Sapiro]

On 1/26/20 9:03 AM, Jelle de Jong wrote:


PS. I had mailman not advertised by default but some Debian update a 
while back seem to have made it advertised. I disabled the advertising 
of the list but the spam keeps coming. Maybe disable advertising by 
default for the mailman default list?



First, advertised or not, it is well known that every Mailman 2.1 
installation has a site list, usually called mailman. Also the 
mail...@example.com address is exposed on both the listinfo and admin 
overview pages in the web UI.




What are the recommended steps?


It depends on how your MTA deliveres to Mailman. If it uses aliases, you 
can change the mailman-request alias in mailman's aliases, but if 
Mailman automatically generates these, that may get undone. A better 
approach is to put an alias for the mailman-request and maybe other 
mailman- addresses in an alias file that is processed before Mailman's 
aliases or delivery. You can use these to send the mail to /dev/null or 
to some user or mailbox if you want to see the mail.


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[Mailman-Users] how to disable main mailman-request and mailman list without stopping mailman functionality

[Jelle de Jong]

Hello everybody,

I am seeing our mail...@lists.company.nl being used to try to spam 
people and receiving mail delivery failures from 
mailman-requ...@lists.company.nl attempts.


I removed the mailman mailinglist but that ended up disabling mailman 
and all of the mailinglsit from working. I created the mailman 
mailinglist again and the spam started again.


I looked at the the options but can not find the right ones that might help?

PS. I had mailman not advertised by default but some Debian update a 
while back seem to have made it advertised. I disabled the advertising 
of the list but the spam keeps coming. Maybe disable advertising by 
default for the mailman default list?


What are the recommended steps?

Kind regards,

Jelle de Jong
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to stop auto discarding when whitelisted and automatic discarding set to 0?

[Tom Corcoran]

Yes, I get the auto discard message with the pdf attached.

Thank you! via http://listhelper.nongnu.org/mailmanconf.html I found where
generic_nonmember_action was and discovered that the email address was in
the List of non-member addresses whose postings will be automatically
discarded. Crikey. my bad, I must have clicked wrongly one time!

Thanks for your patience Mark! :-)

Tom.


On Thu, 17 Oct 2019 at 15:01, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On 10/17/19 2:38 AM, Tom Corcoran wrote:
> > All my stuff is typically default and not set unless ye told me here. I
> > double-checked and no rules in there
>
> How do you know when a message is discarded? Do you get a message from
> Mailman with Subject: Auto-discard notification with the message attached.
>
> If so, the post is from a nonmember and either the nonmember address or
> a regexp pattern matching the address is in discard_these_nonmembers or
> generic_nonmember_action is Discard.
>
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to stop auto discarding when whitelisted and automatic discarding set to 0?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 10/17/19 2:38 AM, Tom Corcoran wrote:
> All my stuff is typically default and not set unless ye told me here. I
> double-checked and no rules in there

How do you know when a message is discarded? Do you get a message from
Mailman with Subject: Auto-discard notification with the message attached.

If so, the post is from a nonmember and either the nonmember address or
a regexp pattern matching the address is in discard_these_nonmembers or
generic_nonmember_action is Discard.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to stop auto discarding when whitelisted and automatic discarding set to 0?

[Tom Corcoran]

All my stuff is typically default and not set unless ye told me here. I
double-checked and no rules in there

On Wed, 16 Oct 2019 at 18:01, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On October 16, 2019 9:16:14 AM PDT, Tom Corcoran 
> wrote:
> >thanks, Mark,
> >
> >Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
> >   boundary="=_NextPart_000_0029_01D583FA.47355D80"
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >Content-Type: message/rfc822
> >Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> >   boundary="=_NextPart_001_002A_01D583FA.47355D80"
> >Content-Type: text/plain;
> >   charset="us-ascii"
> >Content-Type: text/html;
> >   charset="us-ascii"
> >Content-Type: application/pdf;
>
>
> Ok. It's not content filtering doing the discarding.
>
> What's in Privacy options -> Spam filters?
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to stop auto discarding when whitelisted and automatic discarding set to 0?

[Mark Sapiro]

On October 16, 2019 9:16:14 AM PDT, Tom Corcoran  wrote:
>thanks, Mark,
>
>Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
>   boundary="=_NextPart_000_0029_01D583FA.47355D80"
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>Content-Type: message/rfc822
>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
>   boundary="=_NextPart_001_002A_01D583FA.47355D80"
>Content-Type: text/plain;
>   charset="us-ascii"
>Content-Type: text/html;
>   charset="us-ascii"
>Content-Type: application/pdf;


Ok. It's not content filtering doing the discarding.

What's in Privacy options -> Spam filters?



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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to stop auto discarding when whitelisted and automatic discarding set to 0?

[Tom Corcoran]

thanks, Mark,

Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
boundary="=_NextPart_000_0029_01D583FA.47355D80"
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="=_NextPart_001_002A_01D583FA.47355D80"
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Type: application/pdf;


Phew!


Tom.


On Wed, 16 Oct 2019 at 15:43, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On 10/16/19 1:30 AM, Tom Corcoran wrote:
> > Thanks, Mark.
> >
> > Having sent my test email with pdf attached I thought all was fine, but
> an
> > email from a club with pdf was auto discarded this morning :-(
> >
> > My pass_mime_types is now:
> >
> > multipart
> > message/rfc822
> > application/pgp-signature
> > text/plain
> > text/html
> > application/pdf
>
>
> That looks good.
>
>
> > Looking at the header of the  message discarded I see:
> >
> > MIME-Version: 1.0
> > Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===12345678=="
> >
> > Do I need to add
> > multipart/mixed
> > to pass_mime_types or something?
>
> No. "multipart" includes all sub-types of multipart. With the settings
> you have, it is unlikely that content filtering removed all of the
> message. What are the Content-Types of all of the subparts?. If you can
> post all the Content-Type headers and boundaries, we can be sure. A
> simple example of what I mean is:
>
>
>
> > Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
> boundary="_av-SpnTZ0TWNMJ4n1S5X_0G2w"
> > ...
> > --_av-SpnTZ0TWNMJ4n1S5X_0G2w
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> > ...
> > --_av-SpnTZ0TWNMJ4n1S5X_0G2w
> > Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
> > ...
> > --_av-SpnTZ0TWNMJ4n1S5X_0G2w--
>
>
>
>
> --
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> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to stop auto discarding when whitelisted and automatic discarding set to 0?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 10/16/19 1:30 AM, Tom Corcoran wrote:
> Thanks, Mark.
> 
> Having sent my test email with pdf attached I thought all was fine, but an
> email from a club with pdf was auto discarded this morning :-(
> 
> My pass_mime_types is now:
> 
> multipart
> message/rfc822
> application/pgp-signature
> text/plain
> text/html
> application/pdf


That looks good.


> Looking at the header of the  message discarded I see:
> 
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===12345678=="
> 
> Do I need to add
> multipart/mixed
> to pass_mime_types or something?

No. "multipart" includes all sub-types of multipart. With the settings
you have, it is unlikely that content filtering removed all of the
message. What are the Content-Types of all of the subparts?. If you can
post all the Content-Type headers and boundaries, we can be sure. A
simple example of what I mean is:



> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_av-SpnTZ0TWNMJ4n1S5X_0G2w"
> ...
> --_av-SpnTZ0TWNMJ4n1S5X_0G2w
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> ...
> --_av-SpnTZ0TWNMJ4n1S5X_0G2w
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
> ...
> --_av-SpnTZ0TWNMJ4n1S5X_0G2w--




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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to stop auto discarding when whitelisted and automatic discarding set to 0?

[Tom Corcoran]

Thanks, Mark.

Having sent my test email with pdf attached I thought all was fine, but an
email from a club with pdf was auto discarded this morning :-(

My pass_mime_types is now:

multipart
message/rfc822
application/pgp-signature
text/plain
text/html
application/pdf

Looking at the header of the  message discarded I see:

MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===12345678=="

Do I need to add
multipart/mixed
to pass_mime_types or something?

Thanks!

Tom.


On Mon, 14 Oct 2019 at 19:20, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On 10/14/19 3:27 AM, Tom Corcoran wrote:
> >
> > The faq mentioned is unreadable for a non-expert.
>
>
> In order to solve this issue, you need to understand why the messages
> are being discarded. The FAQ at  lists
> the various list settings that can cause this. I will try to translate:
>
> MimeDel: Does your list have Content filtering -> filter_content set to
> Yes. If so, and pass_mime_types is non-empty and does not contain at least
>   multipart
>   text/plain
>   text/html
>   application/pdf
> Content filtering may be removing the entire message. Simplest solution
> is to set filter_content Off.
>
> Moderate: probably not the issue in your case.
>
> Scrubber: If your list's Non-digest options -> scrub_nondigest setting
> is Yes, this is a possibility but not likely. You can set it to No.
>
> SpamDetect: If your list's Privacy options... -> Sender filters ->
> dmarc_moderation_action is set to Discard, set it to Munge From. The
> other things under SpamDetect are not likely, but you can check if your
> list has anything in Privacy options... -> Spam filters ->
> header_filter_rules with a Discard action.
>
> The above are all settings in Mailman's list admin UI.
>
>
> > I am still getting auto discard from a club email that sends a pdf
> > newsletter, I have the address whitelisted in cpanel.
>
>
> I don't know what "whitelisted in cpanel" means. It may mean the address
> is added to Privacy options... -> Sender filters ->
> accept_these_nonmembers, but if so, that is not relevant.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro 
>
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to stop auto discarding when whitelisted and automatic discarding set to 0?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 10/14/19 3:27 AM, Tom Corcoran wrote:
> 
> The faq mentioned is unreadable for a non-expert.


In order to solve this issue, you need to understand why the messages
are being discarded. The FAQ at  lists
the various list settings that can cause this. I will try to translate:

MimeDel: Does your list have Content filtering -> filter_content set to
Yes. If so, and pass_mime_types is non-empty and does not contain at least
  multipart
  text/plain
  text/html
  application/pdf
Content filtering may be removing the entire message. Simplest solution
is to set filter_content Off.

Moderate: probably not the issue in your case.

Scrubber: If your list's Non-digest options -> scrub_nondigest setting
is Yes, this is a possibility but not likely. You can set it to No.

SpamDetect: If your list's Privacy options... -> Sender filters ->
dmarc_moderation_action is set to Discard, set it to Munge From. The
other things under SpamDetect are not likely, but you can check if your
list has anything in Privacy options... -> Spam filters ->
header_filter_rules with a Discard action.

The above are all settings in Mailman's list admin UI.


> I am still getting auto discard from a club email that sends a pdf
> newsletter, I have the address whitelisted in cpanel.


I don't know what "whitelisted in cpanel" means. It may mean the address
is added to Privacy options... -> Sender filters ->
accept_these_nonmembers, but if so, that is not relevant.

I hope this helps.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to stop auto discarding when whitelisted and automatic discarding set to 0?

[Tom Corcoran]

I have a mailing list setup so myself and my wife get emails re our kids,
from school, sports clubs, etc. We want everything to come through so I
wish there was an option for that!

As reported in this thread I have no auto discard set, with "Discard held
messages older than this number of days. Use 0 for no automatic
discarding." set to 0. I was told here that the later only affects messages
which are held for moderation and still waiting moderator action after
max_days_to_hold days.

The faq mentioned is unreadable for a non-expert.

I am still getting auto discard from a club email that sends a pdf
newsletter, I have the address whitelisted in cpanel.

Please, can someone advise me?

Cheers,

Tom.


On Thu, 3 Oct 2019 at 16:35, Tom Corcoran  wrote:

> Thanks, Mark. I'm unsure how I missed the moderation for so long as
> anything due shows on the first page always.
>
> btw, I read the faq page and I do not have a notion what it is saying! I
> guess it's a faq page for someone in the loop. I'm unsure why it could not
> have the simple explanation you gave regarding the message still needed to
> be moderated.
>
> On Tue, 1 Oct 2019 at 20:05, Mark Sapiro  wrote:
>
>> On 10/1/19 11:45 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> >
>> > For a list of possible reasons for this, see
>> > > >.
>>
>>
>> This has now been summarized in a new FAQ at
>> .
>>
>> --
>> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
>> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
>> --
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>>
>
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to stop auto discarding when whitelisted and automatic discarding set to 0?

[Tom Corcoran]

Thanks, Mark. I'm unsure how I missed the moderation for so long as
anything due shows on the first page always.

btw, I read the faq page and I do not have a notion what it is saying! I
guess it's a faq page for someone in the loop. I'm unsure why it could not
have the simple explanation you gave regarding the message still needed to
be moderated.

On Tue, 1 Oct 2019 at 20:05, Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On 10/1/19 11:45 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >
> > For a list of possible reasons for this, see
> > .
>
>
> This has now been summarized in a new FAQ at
> .
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
> --
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> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to stop auto discarding when whitelisted and automatic discarding set to 0?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 10/1/19 11:45 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> For a list of possible reasons for this, see
> .


This has now been summarized in a new FAQ at
.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to stop auto discarding when whitelisted and automatic discarding set to 0?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 9/30/19 8:58 AM, Tom Corcoran wrote:
> 
> I have some mailing lists setup on cpanel. One address I have added to my
> whitelist in spamassain. I also have no auto discard set, with "Discard
> held messages older than this number of days. Use 0 for no automatic
> discarding." set to 0.


This only affects messages which are held for moderation and still
waiting moderator action after max_days_to_hold days.


> However, emails from this address come in as auto discarded.


For a list of possible reasons for this, see
.

The most likely reason is the message is HTML only and Mailman's content
filtering does not accept HTML. Note that if pass_mime_types is
non-empty, convert_html_to_plaintext is only effective if text/html is
included in pass_mime_types.

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[Mailman-Users] How to stop auto discarding when whitelisted and automatic discarding set to 0?

[Tom Corcoran]

Apologies if this is a FAQ but I could not find the info.

I have some mailing lists setup on cpanel. One address I have added to my
whitelist in spamassain. I also have no auto discard set, with "Discard
held messages older than this number of days. Use 0 for no automatic
discarding." set to 0.

However, emails from this address come in as auto discarded.

I'd like to prevent that in the future and have the email delivered as
normal.

Is there an additional setting I need to configure?

Thanks!
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to detect if a new list is created

[Mark Sapiro]

On 9/25/19 7:12 AM, Peter Heitzer wrote:
> Is there a simple method to detect if a new list was created?
> As mailman updates the alias file (/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases in our 
> installation) with any new list I thought of 
> checking the modify date of the aliases file.
> Is this a sufficient method?


It should work, or you could check the mod date of Mailman's lists/
directory.

What I would do is save the output of an 'ls' of Mailman's lists/
directory and set up a cron to 'ls' the directory, compare it to the
saved 'ls' and if different, update the saved 'ls' and email me.

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[Mailman-Users] How to detect if a new list is created

[Peter Heitzer]

Is there a simple method to detect if a new list was created?
As mailman updates the alias file (/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases in our 
installation) with any new list I thought of 
checking the modify date of the aliases file.
Is this a sufficient method?





Dipl.-Inform(FH) Peter Heitzer, peter.heit...@rz.uni-regensburg.de


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Re: [Mailman-Users] how to test template customization

[Mark Sapiro]

On 8/20/19 4:14 PM, Russell Clemings wrote:
> This appears to do what I want -- removes everything except the names of
> the list subscriptions:
> 
> diff --git a/mailpasswds b/mailpasswds
> index f194dc6..5f91f34 100644
> --- a/mailpasswds
> +++ b/mailpasswds
> @@ -151,19 +151,8 @@ def main():
>  continue
>  # Group by the lower-cased address, since Mailman always
>  # treates per...@dom.ain the same as per...@dom.ain.
> -try:
> -password = mlist.getMemberPassword(member)
> -except Errors.NotAMemberError:
> -# Here's a member with no passwords, which I think was
> -# possible in older versions of Mailman.  Log this and
> -# move on.
> -syslog('error', 'password-less member %s for list %s',
> -   member, mlist.internal_name())
> -continue
> -
> -
> -optionsurl = mlist.GetOptionsURL(member)
> -
> +password = ''
> +optionsurl = ''
>  lang = mlist.getMemberLanguage(member)
>  info = (listaddr, password, optionsurl, lang)
>  userinfo.setdefault(member, []).append(info)
> @@ -221,8 +210,7 @@ def main():
>  i18n.set_language(poplang)
>  # Craft table header after language was set
>  header = '%-40s %-10s\n%-40s %-10s' % (
> - _('List'), _('Password // URL'), '', '')
> -
> + _('Your subscriptions'), _(''), '', ' ')
>  header = tounicode(header, enc)
>  # Add the table to the end so it doesn't get wrapped/filled
>  text += (header + '\n' + NL.join(table))


There are multiple ways to do this, but the above is as good as any.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] how to test template customization

[Russell Clemings]

This appears to do what I want -- removes everything except the names of
the list subscriptions:

diff --git a/mailpasswds b/mailpasswds
index f194dc6..5f91f34 100644
--- a/mailpasswds
+++ b/mailpasswds
@@ -151,19 +151,8 @@ def main():
 continue
 # Group by the lower-cased address, since Mailman always
 # treates per...@dom.ain the same as per...@dom.ain.
-try:
-password = mlist.getMemberPassword(member)
-except Errors.NotAMemberError:
-# Here's a member with no passwords, which I think was
-# possible in older versions of Mailman.  Log this and
-# move on.
-syslog('error', 'password-less member %s for list %s',
-   member, mlist.internal_name())
-continue
-
-
-optionsurl = mlist.GetOptionsURL(member)
-
+password = ''
+optionsurl = ''
 lang = mlist.getMemberLanguage(member)
 info = (listaddr, password, optionsurl, lang)
 userinfo.setdefault(member, []).append(info)
@@ -221,8 +210,7 @@ def main():
 i18n.set_language(poplang)
 # Craft table header after language was set
 header = '%-40s %-10s\n%-40s %-10s' % (
- _('List'), _('Password // URL'), '',
'')
-
+ _('Your subscriptions'), _(''), '', ' ')
 header = tounicode(header, enc)
 # Add the table to the end so it doesn't get wrapped/filled
 text += (header + '\n' + NL.join(table))

On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 3:06 PM Russell Clemings 
wrote:

> OK, so I also want to remove the passwords themselves from the monthly
> reminder (we're running all of our lists through Drupal and don't want
> people logging into the Mailman interface anyway).
>
> Is this (from 2008) still the best way to do that? I gather that it will
> need to be a patch that is reinstalled with every Mailman update but I've
> already got another one of those so no big deal.
>
> https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-September/063158.html
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 2:53 PM Russell Clemings 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks, worked perfectly (and a good thing, because there were in fact
>> some garbles).
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 2:45 PM Mark Sapiro  wrote:
>>
>>> On 8/20/19 2:34 PM, Russell Clemings wrote:
>>> > I'm trying to customize cronpass.txt. (I understand that it needs to
>>> go in
>>> > templates/site/en/cronpass.txt.)
>>> >
>>> > I think I've got it basically figured out, but I'd like to test it
>>> before
>>> > we get to the end of the month and a couple thousand possibly messed-up
>>> > monthly password reminders go out. Is there a way to test it, e.g.
>>> sending
>>> > a copy just to myself?
>>>
>>> Create (or use an existing) test list with only you as a member. Make
>>> sure the list's send_reminders is Yes and your options "Get password
>>> reminder email for this list?" for the list is Yes and then install your
>>> templates/site/en/cronpass.txt and run Mailman's
>>>
>>> cron/mailpasswds -l LISTNAME
>>>
>>> with your test list's LISTNAME to mail reminders for only that list.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
>>> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
>>> --
>>> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
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>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>>> Unsubscribe:
>>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/rclemings%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ===
>> Russell Clemings
>> 
>> ===
>>
>
>
> --
> ===
> Russell Clemings
> 
> ===
>


-- 
===
Russell Clemings

===
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Re: [Mailman-Users] how to test template customization

[Russell Clemings]

OK, so I also want to remove the passwords themselves from the monthly
reminder (we're running all of our lists through Drupal and don't want
people logging into the Mailman interface anyway).

Is this (from 2008) still the best way to do that? I gather that it will
need to be a patch that is reinstalled with every Mailman update but I've
already got another one of those so no big deal.

https://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2008-September/063158.html



On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 2:53 PM Russell Clemings 
wrote:

> Thanks, worked perfectly (and a good thing, because there were in fact
> some garbles).
>
> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 2:45 PM Mark Sapiro  wrote:
>
>> On 8/20/19 2:34 PM, Russell Clemings wrote:
>> > I'm trying to customize cronpass.txt. (I understand that it needs to go
>> in
>> > templates/site/en/cronpass.txt.)
>> >
>> > I think I've got it basically figured out, but I'd like to test it
>> before
>> > we get to the end of the month and a couple thousand possibly messed-up
>> > monthly password reminders go out. Is there a way to test it, e.g.
>> sending
>> > a copy just to myself?
>>
>> Create (or use an existing) test list with only you as a member. Make
>> sure the list's send_reminders is Yes and your options "Get password
>> reminder email for this list?" for the list is Yes and then install your
>> templates/site/en/cronpass.txt and run Mailman's
>>
>> cron/mailpasswds -l LISTNAME
>>
>> with your test list's LISTNAME to mail reminders for only that list.
>>
>> --
>> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
>> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
>> --
>> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>> Searchable Archives:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe:
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/rclemings%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> ===
> Russell Clemings
> 
> ===
>


-- 
===
Russell Clemings

===
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Re: [Mailman-Users] how to test template customization

[Russell Clemings]

Thanks, worked perfectly (and a good thing, because there were in fact some
garbles).

On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 2:45 PM Mark Sapiro  wrote:

> On 8/20/19 2:34 PM, Russell Clemings wrote:
> > I'm trying to customize cronpass.txt. (I understand that it needs to go
> in
> > templates/site/en/cronpass.txt.)
> >
> > I think I've got it basically figured out, but I'd like to test it before
> > we get to the end of the month and a couple thousand possibly messed-up
> > monthly password reminders go out. Is there a way to test it, e.g.
> sending
> > a copy just to myself?
>
> Create (or use an existing) test list with only you as a member. Make
> sure the list's send_reminders is Yes and your options "Get password
> reminder email for this list?" for the list is Yes and then install your
> templates/site/en/cronpass.txt and run Mailman's
>
> cron/mailpasswds -l LISTNAME
>
> with your test list's LISTNAME to mail reminders for only that list.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
> --
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/rclemings%40gmail.com
>


-- 
===
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===
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Re: [Mailman-Users] how to test template customization

[Mark Sapiro]

On 8/20/19 2:34 PM, Russell Clemings wrote:
> I'm trying to customize cronpass.txt. (I understand that it needs to go in
> templates/site/en/cronpass.txt.)
> 
> I think I've got it basically figured out, but I'd like to test it before
> we get to the end of the month and a couple thousand possibly messed-up
> monthly password reminders go out. Is there a way to test it, e.g. sending
> a copy just to myself?

Create (or use an existing) test list with only you as a member. Make
sure the list's send_reminders is Yes and your options "Get password
reminder email for this list?" for the list is Yes and then install your
templates/site/en/cronpass.txt and run Mailman's

cron/mailpasswds -l LISTNAME

with your test list's LISTNAME to mail reminders for only that list.

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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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[Mailman-Users] how to test template customization

[Russell Clemings]

I'm trying to customize cronpass.txt. (I understand that it needs to go in
templates/site/en/cronpass.txt.)

I think I've got it basically figured out, but I'd like to test it before
we get to the end of the month and a couple thousand possibly messed-up
monthly password reminders go out. Is there a way to test it, e.g. sending
a copy just to myself?

I couldn't find anything on this point in the archives.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] how did spam message get through a moderated list?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 6/26/19 2:36 PM, Aleksandr Miroslav wrote:
> 
> Three of the lists automatically discarded the email, as I have
> configured them to do, and sent me an notification about it. But the
> fourth list sent it through, even though u...@example.com was not
> subscribed to the list, and I have generic_nonmember_action set to
> Discard.
> 
> For the life of me, I cannot figure out how/why this email got
> through. I have set the list to emergency moderation for now, but I'd
> like to know how it got through in the first place.


Mailman looks at more than the From: header to determine if the message
is from a list member. From Defaults.py

> # Membership tests for posting purposes are usually performed by looking at a
> # set of headers, passing the test if any of their values match a member of
> # the list.  Headers are checked in the order given in this variable.  The
> # value None means use the From_ (envelope sender) header.  Field names are
> # case insensitive.
> SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', None, 'reply-to', 'sender')

It may or may not be possible to determine from looking at the received
post what all these values were in the incoming message as Reply-To: may
have been munged based on list settings and the envelope sender and
Sender: headers will have been rewritten to the list-bounces address,
but if you have access, you can determine the envelope sender from the
system MTA logs.

In any case, I'm sure the message was accepted because one of the
envelope sender, Reply-To: or Sender: had a list member address.

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[Mailman-Users] how did spam message get through a moderated list?

[Aleksandr Miroslav]

Recently a spam message came in to four lists I administer. The email
was writtenlike this: firstmlast .

I recognized the real name, because First M. Last, is someone I know
and is subscribed to all the lists. However, the "u...@example.com"
was totally foreign. So spam.

Three of the lists automatically discarded the email, as I have
configured them to do, and sent me an notification about it. But the
fourth list sent it through, even though u...@example.com was not
subscribed to the list, and I have generic_nonmember_action set to
Discard.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out how/why this email got
through. I have set the list to emergency moderation for now, but I'd
like to know how it got through in the first place.

I did a config dump and vimdiff across the 3 lists, apart from the
list names, signatures, and two minor fields (max_num_recipients, and
admin_member_chunksize), they are all identical.

In, /usr/local/mailman/logs/post, I see this for the message:

Jun 26 03:48:40 2019 (1052) post to listname from u...@example.com,
size=6065, message-id
, success

For the other 3 lists, I see this in /usr/local/mailman/logs/vette:

Jun 26 03:48:31 2019 (1050) Message discarded, msgid:
'
list: list1,
handler: Moderate
Jun 26 03:48:51 2019 (1050) Message discarded, msgid:
'
list: list2,
handler: Moderate
Jun 26 03:50:22 2019 (1050) Message discarded, msgid:
'
list: list3,
handler: Moderate

Does anyone know why the message to the fourth list went through?
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How long will Mailman version 2 be supported for?

[mailman-admin]

Hello

See:
https://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/msg71795.html


Kind regards,
Christian Mack

Am 21.06.19 um 00:07 schrieb Steven Jones:
> 
> thanks
> 
> 
> regards.
> Steven

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[Mailman-Users] How long will Mailman version 2 be supported for?

[Steven Jones]

thanks


regards.


Steven
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How auto create Postfix virtual aliases on MySQL table

[Davide Marchi]

On 3/7/19 12:36 PM, Davide Marchi wrote:

Hi Friends,
We have a Postfix mail server on Debian Stretch, where all virtual 
user

and virtual aliases are stored on MySQL tables.
I would like to know if Mailman could provide its creation in 
automatic

or alternatively is there a configuration file that provides the
execution of a script at the end of every new list generation?
so as not to lose the changes to each update?


Assuming you are talking about Mailman 2.1 (this is a MM 2.1 list), and
assuming You have Postfix/Mailman integration set up as in sections
6.1.1 and 6.1.2 of the installation manual
, every time a list is
created or removed, Mailman runs the commands defined by default as:

POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postalias'
POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postmap'

to update the .db files for Mailman's data/aliases and 
data/virtual-mailman


You can set these in mm_cfg.py to point to any script you want to read
the files and do whatever you need.

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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan



Yes, I'm are talking about Mailman 2.1, excuse me for not having 
declared it!
I've found very useful your your suggestions, now I will do some tests 
..


may thanks!

Davide




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Re: [Mailman-Users] How auto create Postfix virtual aliases on MySQL table

[Mark Sapiro]

On 3/7/19 12:36 PM, Davide Marchi wrote:
> Hi Friends,
> We have a Postfix mail server on Debian Stretch, where all virtual user
> and virtual aliases are stored on MySQL tables.
> I would like to know if Mailman could provide its creation in automatic
> or alternatively is there a configuration file that provides the
> execution of a script at the end of every new list generation?
> so as not to lose the changes to each update?


Assuming you are talking about Mailman 2.1 (this is a MM 2.1 list), and
assuming You have Postfix/Mailman integration set up as in sections
6.1.1 and 6.1.2 of the installation manual
, every time a list is
created or removed, Mailman runs the commands defined by default as:

POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postalias'
POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postmap'

to update the .db files for Mailman's data/aliases and data/virtual-mailman

You can set these in mm_cfg.py to point to any script you want to read
the files and do whatever you need.

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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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[Mailman-Users] How auto create Postfix virtual aliases on MySQL table

[Davide Marchi]

Hi Friends,
We have a Postfix mail server on Debian Stretch, where all virtual user 
and virtual aliases are stored on MySQL tables.
I would like to know if Mailman could provide its creation in automatic 
or alternatively is there a configuration file that provides the 
execution of a script at the end of every new list generation?

so as not to lose the changes to each update?


Many many thanks!



Davide Marchi


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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to kill zombie pending moderator requests?

[Bill Cole]

On 16 Feb 2019, at 12:55, Brian Carpenter wrote:

Check the headers of the request to make sure it is not coming from 
your

older server.


That would have been best but the list owner was getting them, not me, 
and the messages were right there in the exim_mainlog on the cPanel 
machine...



I run all of my clients' lists on cPanel servers and have done
hundreds of migrations from other servers.


So, this raises 2 questions:

1. Do you have or know of a complete documentation of how to migrate a 
Mailman list from a standard installation to cPanel? I did the 
migrations that spawned this problem as a pilot for dozens that need to 
be moved in the near future and wrote up the process that I used so that 
others should be able to follow it, but I'm not filled with confidence 
in the end result and would love to compare notes with someone who has 
it nailed down.


2. Most specifically, how do you deal with migrating pending moderator 
actions and subscription requests? I handled the lists I moved with 
declaring a subscription & config freeze (easy, since these are private 
lists) and asking the mods to clear all requests the morning of the 
move, but obviously that didn't quite work because spammers don't even 
try to pay attention to our change control discussions.



The times that clients' reported
phantom moderated notifications, all were coming from their previous 
server.


Still batting 1.000 :)


cPanel has great tools for monitoring list traffic btw. It is the main
reason why I run all of my 2.1 lists on cPanel servers.


I need to look more closely at those at some point. The company I'm 
doing this for mostly leaves all the list administration to their 
customer listowners, and I am a bit leery of presenting those 
not-so-technical folk with a whole new interface doing things they never 
knew they might have wanted. I have pared down a feature package for 
cPanel to make it reasonable to present them with a non-bewildering UI 
for managing via cPanel, but for now I'm just trying to make the 
migrations as painless as possible.


Thanks for the help!

--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to kill zombie pending moderator requests?

[Bill Cole]

On 16 Feb 2019, at 13:00, Mark Sapiro wrote:


On 2/15/19 9:40 AM, Bill Cole wrote:

I recently migrated a set of Mailman lists from a standard 2.1.18
installation (on ancient RedHat) to a cPanel host (CentOS 7) running
Mailman 2.1.27. One glitch in that migration involves a pending
moderation issue, which ultimately does not need to be dealt with
because it was just spam to the list address from a non-member. Due 
to

some flaw in my migration process (probably related to cPanel's list
name mangling) the daily pending request reminder script is sending 
the
moderator a reminder of the issue, however the issue is not visible 
in

the web UI.



The notice is coming from the old install. See
.


I guess that I am not the first person to make this mistake.

I had actually considered that, but since the notices were going to the 
list owner and I'm just the mail janitor^Wadmin and I could see them in 
the log on the new system, I ruled that out without actually getting the 
list owner trained on how to get headers out of Outlook... Of course, 
the reason they were in the log was that they were being sent to 
list-owner@ and further obfuscating matters, the old host 
was and still is the exterior gateway for mail inbound and outbound.


My first impulse is to just clobber the pending.pck file, but I am 
not sure if that is safe. Advice would be greatly appreciated.


It's safe, but it won't help for two reasons. The reminder is not 
coming

from the cPanel Mailman, and the relevant file is requests.pck
(moderator requests), not pending.pck (pending confirmations).


Useful information! Thanks!



--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to kill zombie pending moderator requests?

[Brian Carpenter]

Check the headers of the request to make sure it is not coming from your
older server. I run all of my clients' lists on cPanel servers and have done
hundreds of migrations from other servers. The times that clients' reported
phantom moderated notifications, all were coming from their previous server.

cPanel has great tools for monitoring list traffic btw. It is the main
reason why I run all of my 2.1 lists on cPanel servers.

Have a great day!

Brian Carpenter
EMWD.com
br...@emwd.com

-Original Message-
From: Mailman-Users  On
Behalf Of Bill Cole
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2019 12:40 PM
To: mailman-users@python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to kill zombie pending moderator requests?

I recently migrated a set of Mailman lists from a standard 2.1.18 
installation (on ancient RedHat) to a cPanel host (CentOS 7) running 
Mailman 2.1.27. One glitch in that migration involves a pending 
moderation issue, which ultimately does not need to be dealt with 
because it was just spam to the list address from a non-member. Due to 
some flaw in my migration process (probably related to cPanel's list 
name mangling) the daily pending request reminder script is sending the 
moderator a reminder of the issue, however the issue is not visible in 
the web UI.

The pending.pck file for the list has this unilluminating content:

# ../../bin/dumpdb pending.pck
[- start pickle file -]
<- start object 1 ->
{   'evictions': {   'fe643c3a29afd79686e7ee0578f83b2fa2ae1eba': 
1550223270.461477},
 'fe643c3a29afd79686e7ee0578f83b2fa2ae1eba': ('H', 2440),
 'version': 2}
[- end pickle file -]


Python is not a language I use much so I'm not sure what the daily 
'checkdbs' script is seeing that makes it think there's a pending issue 
or what exactly the contents of that pending.pck means, although I 
expect it is relevant. The other 3 lists that were migrated in the same 
way at the same time which did not have pending issues have similar 
pending.pck contents but DO NOT generate the phantom notifications.

My first impulse is to just clobber the pending.pck file, but I am not 
sure if that is safe. Advice would be greatly appreciated.


-- 
Bill Cole
b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
(AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)
Available For Hire: https://linkedin.com/in/billcole


-- 
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(AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)
Available For Hire: https://linkedin.com/in/billcole
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to kill zombie pending moderator requests?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 2/15/19 9:40 AM, Bill Cole wrote:
> I recently migrated a set of Mailman lists from a standard 2.1.18
> installation (on ancient RedHat) to a cPanel host (CentOS 7) running
> Mailman 2.1.27. One glitch in that migration involves a pending
> moderation issue, which ultimately does not need to be dealt with
> because it was just spam to the list address from a non-member. Due to
> some flaw in my migration process (probably related to cPanel's list
> name mangling) the daily pending request reminder script is sending the
> moderator a reminder of the issue, however the issue is not visible in
> the web UI.


The notice is coming from the old install. See
.


> My first impulse is to just clobber the pending.pck file, but I am not sure 
> if that is safe. Advice would be greatly appreciated. 


It's safe, but it won't help for two reasons. The reminder is not coming
from the cPanel Mailman, and the relevant file is requests.pck
(moderator requests), not pending.pck (pending confirmations).

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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[Mailman-Users] How to kill zombie pending moderator requests?

[Bill Cole]

I recently migrated a set of Mailman lists from a standard 2.1.18 
installation (on ancient RedHat) to a cPanel host (CentOS 7) running 
Mailman 2.1.27. One glitch in that migration involves a pending 
moderation issue, which ultimately does not need to be dealt with 
because it was just spam to the list address from a non-member. Due to 
some flaw in my migration process (probably related to cPanel's list 
name mangling) the daily pending request reminder script is sending the 
moderator a reminder of the issue, however the issue is not visible in 
the web UI.


The pending.pck file for the list has this unilluminating content:

# ../../bin/dumpdb pending.pck
[- start pickle file -]
<- start object 1 ->
{   'evictions': {   'fe643c3a29afd79686e7ee0578f83b2fa2ae1eba': 
1550223270.461477},

'fe643c3a29afd79686e7ee0578f83b2fa2ae1eba': ('H', 2440),
'version': 2}
[- end pickle file -]


Python is not a language I use much so I'm not sure what the daily 
'checkdbs' script is seeing that makes it think there's a pending issue 
or what exactly the contents of that pending.pck means, although I 
expect it is relevant. The other 3 lists that were migrated in the same 
way at the same time which did not have pending issues have similar 
pending.pck contents but DO NOT generate the phantom notifications.


My first impulse is to just clobber the pending.pck file, but I am not 
sure if that is safe. Advice would be greatly appreciated.



--
Bill Cole
b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
(AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)
Available For Hire: https://linkedin.com/in/billcole


--
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b...@scconsult.com or billc...@apache.org
(AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)
Available For Hire: https://linkedin.com/in/billcole
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How many abonents mailman can handle ?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 1/9/19 7:15 AM, Konrad Wawryn wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I would like to create newsletter mailing list with ~3,2mln abonents.
> 
> The question is, can Mailman handle it ? Will it be possible to import
> via command line such a big amount of users ?


See .

The answer depends on the server and supporting infrastructure. E.g.,
how long will it take to process messages to 3.2 million recipients
through the MTA; will the Python qrunner processes be able to acquire
enough memory to handle a 500 MB (about 150 bytes per user) list
configuration.

Some have found it helpful to divide a very large list into several
smaller lists.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] How many abonents mailman can handle ?

[Dmitri Maziuk via Mailman-Users]

On Wed, 09 Jan 2019 16:15:26 +0100
Konrad Wawryn  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I would like to create newsletter mailing list with ~3,2mln abonents.
> 
> The question is, can Mailman handle it ? Will it be possible to
> import via command line such a big amount of users ?

Ours choked on a few thousand, we ended up importing them in
smaller batches.

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[Mailman-Users] How many abonents mailman can handle ?

[Konrad Wawryn]

Hi,

I would like to create newsletter mailing list with ~3,2mln abonents.

The question is, can Mailman handle it ? Will it be possible to import 
via command line such a big amount of users ?




Thanks in advance for any feedback.


Cheers
Konrad

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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to force retry queue to try again?

[Richard Johnson]

Interesting.  Ok.  Thanks!

/raj


> On Aug 6, 2018, at 10:12 PM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:
> 
> On 08/06/2018 09:58 PM, Richard Johnson wrote:
>> 
>> (Mailman seems to deliver outgoing list messages to the local SMTP server 
>> via "::1".  I was expecting 127.0.0.1.  I wasn't expecting ipv6!  ["Nobody 
>> expects ipv6!"])   :)
> 
> 
> Mailman delivers by default to localhost. That's ::1 because that's what
> localhost resolves to in your /etc/hosts. If that's not what you want,
> change /etc/hosts.
> 
> -- 
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> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/raj%40mischievous.us

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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to force retry queue to try again?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 08/06/2018 09:58 PM, Richard Johnson wrote:
> 
> (Mailman seems to deliver outgoing list messages to the local SMTP server via 
> "::1".  I was expecting 127.0.0.1.  I wasn't expecting ipv6!  ["Nobody 
> expects ipv6!"])   :)


Mailman delivers by default to localhost. That's ::1 because that's what
localhost resolves to in your /etc/hosts. If that's not what you want,
change /etc/hosts.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to force retry queue to try again?

[Richard Johnson]

Thanks, I'll keep this information around for future reference!  In the 
meantime, the queue was automatically retried and the changes I made to postfix 
configuration were correct, so the mail was delivered just fine!

(Mailman seems to deliver outgoing list messages to the local SMTP server via 
"::1".  I was expecting 127.0.0.1.  I wasn't expecting ipv6!  ["Nobody expects 
ipv6!"])   :)

/raj


> On Aug 6, 2018, at 9:16 PM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:
> 
> On 08/06/2018 07:22 PM, Richard Johnson wrote:
>> I'm trying to find some documentation on how to force my retry 
>> ("RetryRunner") queue to try delivery again.  I'll keep searching but 
>> thought I'd toss a quick note here as well.  Anyone?
> 
> 
> Prior to Mailman 2.1.26, it processes the queue, sleeps for 15 minutes
> and repeats. There has always been a DELIVERY_RETRY_WAIT setting that
> defaulted to 1 hour, but prior to 2.1.26, it was ineffective. The
> current doc for that setting in Defaults.py is
> 
>> # How long should we wait before we retry a temporary delivery failure?
>> # Because RetryRunner sleeps for 15 minutes between processes of its queue,
>> # whatever is put here is effectively rounded up to the next integer multiple
>> # of 15 minutes.
>> DELIVERY_RETRY_WAIT = hours(1)
> 
> The way this works is when a delivery fails for a temp failure, the
> current time + DELIVERY_RETRY_WAIT is placed in the message's metadata
> and the message won't be retried before that time.
> 
> If your Mailman is pre 2.1.26, or if DELIVERY_RETRY_WAIT has been set to
> a very low value, you can restart RetryRunner by sending it SIGINT. That
> should  wake it up to process its queue.
> 
> -- 
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> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to force retry queue to try again?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 08/06/2018 07:22 PM, Richard Johnson wrote:
> I'm trying to find some documentation on how to force my retry 
> ("RetryRunner") queue to try delivery again.  I'll keep searching but thought 
> I'd toss a quick note here as well.  Anyone?


Prior to Mailman 2.1.26, it processes the queue, sleeps for 15 minutes
and repeats. There has always been a DELIVERY_RETRY_WAIT setting that
defaulted to 1 hour, but prior to 2.1.26, it was ineffective. The
current doc for that setting in Defaults.py is

> # How long should we wait before we retry a temporary delivery failure?
> # Because RetryRunner sleeps for 15 minutes between processes of its queue,
> # whatever is put here is effectively rounded up to the next integer multiple
> # of 15 minutes.
> DELIVERY_RETRY_WAIT = hours(1)

The way this works is when a delivery fails for a temp failure, the
current time + DELIVERY_RETRY_WAIT is placed in the message's metadata
and the message won't be retried before that time.

If your Mailman is pre 2.1.26, or if DELIVERY_RETRY_WAIT has been set to
a very low value, you can restart RetryRunner by sending it SIGINT. That
should  wake it up to process its queue.

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[Mailman-Users] How to force retry queue to try again?

[Richard Johnson]

I'm trying to find some documentation on how to force my retry ("RetryRunner") 
queue to try delivery again.  I'll keep searching but thought I'd toss a quick 
note here as well.  Anyone?

Thanks for any help you can provide!

/raj

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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to track down someone mislabeling msgs as abuse?

[Richard Johnson]

Thanks!  I have now upgraded to 2.1.27 and inserted this config.  My test 
worked and I see how to decode it.  Hopefully, I'm well placed when I see some 
of this "abuse" nonsense again.  :)

/raj



> On Jun 25, 2018, at 10:19 PM, Mark Sapiro  wrote:
> 
> On 6/25/18 11:39 AM, Richard Johnson wrote:
>> I have a mailing list which has 51 members, all friends of mine.  We use it 
>> to communicate on things related to our history club.  About 1-2 times a 
>> month, I receive an automated message from AOL's abuse list, saying that 
>> someone has marked one of the messages as "abuse".  Unfortunately, there's 
>> no way to track down who this could be, since there are about 5 addresses on 
>> the list which are AOL addresses.  
> 
> 
> Sorry about the prior fumbled send :(
> 
> In my experience, AOL's redaction is not always complete, particularly
> if the message is VERPed, but in any case, beginning with Mailman 2.1.24
> we have
> 
>>- There is a new RCPT_BASE64_HEADER_NAME setting.  If this is set to a
>>  non-empty string, that string is the name of a header that will be added
>>  to personalized and VERPed deliveries with value equal to the base64
>>  encoding of the recipient's email address.  This is intended to enable
>>  identification of the recipient otherwise redacted from "spam report"
>>  feedback loop messages.
> 
> E.g., set
> 
> RCPT_BASE64_HEADER_NAME = 'X-My-Recip'
> 
> in mm_cfg.py and the VERPed or personalized message will have a
> 
> X-My-Recip: header with the base64 encoded recip. The name of the header
> is a setting to prevent AOL from knowing what it is and redacting it too.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to track down someone mislabeling msgs as abuse?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 6/25/18 11:39 AM, Richard Johnson wrote:
> I have a mailing list which has 51 members, all friends of mine.  We use it 
> to communicate on things related to our history club.  About 1-2 times a 
> month, I receive an automated message from AOL's abuse list, saying that 
> someone has marked one of the messages as "abuse".  Unfortunately, there's no 
> way to track down who this could be, since there are about 5 addresses on the 
> list which are AOL addresses.  


Sorry about the prior fumbled send :(

In my experience, AOL's redaction is not always complete, particularly
if the message is VERPed, but in any case, beginning with Mailman 2.1.24
we have

> - There is a new RCPT_BASE64_HEADER_NAME setting.  If this is set to a
>   non-empty string, that string is the name of a header that will be added
>   to personalized and VERPed deliveries with value equal to the base64
>   encoding of the recipient's email address.  This is intended to enable
>   identification of the recipient otherwise redacted from "spam report"
>   feedback loop messages.

E.g., set

RCPT_BASE64_HEADER_NAME = 'X-My-Recip'

in mm_cfg.py and the VERPed or personalized message will have a

X-My-Recip: header with the base64 encoded recip. The name of the header
is a setting to prevent AOL from knowing what it is and redacting it too.

-- 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to track down someone mislabeling msgs as abuse?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 6/25/18 11:39 AM, Richard Johnson wrote:
> Feedback-Type: abuse
> User-Agent: AOL SComp
> Version: 0.1
> Received-Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 10:04:00 -0400 (EDT)
> Source-IP: 98.173.52.230
> Reported-Domain: mischievous.us
> Redacted-Address: redacted
> Redacted-Address: redacted@
> 
> Along with also a copy of the original message.
> 
> Using the "Received-Date" header, I can see that it looks as if the timing 
> would point to one particular list member, but he says he's not doing 
> anything like that.  (As a matter of fact, he has told me, on a few 
> occasions, that he didn't even see the message in question at all!)
> 
> I've read that some people have addressed this by inserting a unique string 
> at the end of each person's message.  I don't see a way to do this with 
> Mailman 2.1.22.  Would something like this be possible with more recent 
> versions such as 2.1.27, or even the latest 3.x version?  Are there other 
> ways to address this?  I don't want to reprimand the person, I just want to 
> educate them to not mark list messages as abuse!
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> /raj
> 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to track down someone mislabeling msgs as abuse?

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Richard Johnson writes:

 > I tried this just now, adding "%(user_address)" to the footer,

Executive summary: Try adding "s" to the end of that.

The format string is "%s", which in very old Pythons needed to be
referred to according to its position in the string.  More modern
Pythons allow you to interpolate "(user_address)" which looks up the
variable user_address in a dictionary.  But you still need the "s" at
the end to tell Python to format the variable's value is expected to
be a string, not an integer or something like that.

The error message seems unclear.  I'm not sure if it's easy to do
anything about it though.  The format string language is complex, and
I'm not sure it's easy for the program to diagnose the error more
precisely.

Regards,

Steve

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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to track down someone mislabeling msgs as abuse?

[Richard Johnson]

I tried this just now, adding "%(user_address)" to the footer, and I'm geting:

Warning: The following illegal substitution variables were found in the 
msg_footer string: user_address

(I included "OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes" into mm_cfg.py, and I did 
bin/mailmanctl restart.)

What version of mailman are you using?  Mine is 2.1.22, which I know is old.

/raj


> On Jun 25, 2018, at 12:36 PM, Richard Johnson  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion!  I'll try it out.
> 
> As for routing directly to spam, I actually thought of that and asked him to 
> verify that wasn't the case.  He says he has no such filter.
> 
> I'm hoping that if I can provide proof that it's him, he'll take it more 
> seriously and take a closer look.  At any rate, if I can prove it's him, I'll 
> have justification for removing him from the list or at least ask if he has a 
> different email address I can use.
> 
> Thanks again!
> 
> /raj
> 
> 
>> On Jun 25, 2018, at 12:23 PM, Russell Clemings > > wrote:
>> 
>> I put %(user_address)s in the message footer; that doesn't seem to get 
>> sanitized by the feedback loops.
>> 
>> It doesn't work for digests though, just regular messages.
>> 
>> I believe it also requires you to set OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION on 
>> mm_cfg.py.
>> 
>> As to your suspect, since he says he's not seeing the messages, is it 
>> possible he has an autofilter that's routing them directly to spam? I had a 
>> user like that recently.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 11:39 AM, Richard Johnson > > wrote:
>> I have a mailing list which has 51 members, all friends of mine.  We use it 
>> to communicate on things related to our history club.  About 1-2 times a 
>> month, I receive an automated message from AOL's abuse list, saying that 
>> someone has marked one of the messages as "abuse".  Unfortunately, there's 
>> no way to track down who this could be, since there are about 5 addresses on 
>> the list which are AOL addresses.  All I get is this:
>> 
>> Feedback-Type: abuse
>> User-Agent: AOL SComp
>> Version: 0.1
>> Received-Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 10:04:00 -0400 (EDT)
>> Source-IP: 98.173.52.230
>> Reported-Domain: mischievous.us 
>> Redacted-Address: redacted
>> Redacted-Address: redacted@
>> 
>> Along with also a copy of the original message.
>> 
>> Using the "Received-Date" header, I can see that it looks as if the timing 
>> would point to one particular list member, but he says he's not doing 
>> anything like that.  (As a matter of fact, he has told me, on a few 
>> occasions, that he didn't even see the message in question at all!)
>> 
>> I've read that some people have addressed this by inserting a unique string 
>> at the end of each person's message.  I don't see a way to do this with 
>> Mailman 2.1.22.  Would something like this be possible with more recent 
>> versions such as 2.1.27, or even the latest 3.x version?  Are there other 
>> ways to address this?  I don't want to reprimand the person, I just want to 
>> educate them to not mark list messages as abuse!
>> 
>> Any help would be greatly appreciated!
>> 
>> /raj
>> 
>> --
>> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org 
>> 
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users 
>> 
>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 
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>> 
>> Unsubscribe: 
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/rclemings%40gmail.com 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> ===
>> Russell Clemings
>> mailto:russ...@clemings.com>>
>> ===
> 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to track down someone mislabeling msgs as abuse?

[Richard Johnson]

Thanks for the suggestion!  I'll try it out.

As for routing directly to spam, I actually thought of that and asked him to 
verify that wasn't the case.  He says he has no such filter.

I'm hoping that if I can provide proof that it's him, he'll take it more 
seriously and take a closer look.  At any rate, if I can prove it's him, I'll 
have justification for removing him from the list or at least ask if he has a 
different email address I can use.

Thanks again!

/raj


> On Jun 25, 2018, at 12:23 PM, Russell Clemings  > wrote:
> 
> I put %(user_address)s in the message footer; that doesn't seem to get 
> sanitized by the feedback loops.
> 
> It doesn't work for digests though, just regular messages.
> 
> I believe it also requires you to set OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION on 
> mm_cfg.py.
> 
> As to your suspect, since he says he's not seeing the messages, is it 
> possible he has an autofilter that's routing them directly to spam? I had a 
> user like that recently.
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 11:39 AM, Richard Johnson  > wrote:
> I have a mailing list which has 51 members, all friends of mine.  We use it 
> to communicate on things related to our history club.  About 1-2 times a 
> month, I receive an automated message from AOL's abuse list, saying that 
> someone has marked one of the messages as "abuse".  Unfortunately, there's no 
> way to track down who this could be, since there are about 5 addresses on the 
> list which are AOL addresses.  All I get is this:
> 
> Feedback-Type: abuse
> User-Agent: AOL SComp
> Version: 0.1
> Received-Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 10:04:00 -0400 (EDT)
> Source-IP: 98.173.52.230
> Reported-Domain: mischievous.us 
> Redacted-Address: redacted
> Redacted-Address: redacted@
> 
> Along with also a copy of the original message.
> 
> Using the "Received-Date" header, I can see that it looks as if the timing 
> would point to one particular list member, but he says he's not doing 
> anything like that.  (As a matter of fact, he has told me, on a few 
> occasions, that he didn't even see the message in question at all!)
> 
> I've read that some people have addressed this by inserting a unique string 
> at the end of each person's message.  I don't see a way to do this with 
> Mailman 2.1.22.  Would something like this be possible with more recent 
> versions such as 2.1.27, or even the latest 3.x version?  Are there other 
> ways to address this?  I don't want to reprimand the person, I just want to 
> educate them to not mark list messages as abuse!
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!
> 
> /raj
> 
> --
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> 
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users 
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> ===
> Russell Clemings
> mailto:russ...@clemings.com>>
> ===

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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to track down someone mislabeling msgs as abuse?

[Russell Clemings]

I put %(user_address)s in the message footer; that doesn't seem to get
sanitized by the feedback loops.

It doesn't work for digests though, just regular messages.

I believe it also requires you to set OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION
on mm_cfg.py.

As to your suspect, since he says he's not seeing the messages, is it
possible he has an autofilter that's routing them directly to spam? I had a
user like that recently.



On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 11:39 AM, Richard Johnson 
wrote:

> I have a mailing list which has 51 members, all friends of mine.  We use
> it to communicate on things related to our history club.  About 1-2 times a
> month, I receive an automated message from AOL's abuse list, saying that
> someone has marked one of the messages as "abuse".  Unfortunately, there's
> no way to track down who this could be, since there are about 5 addresses
> on the list which are AOL addresses.  All I get is this:
>
> Feedback-Type: abuse
> User-Agent: AOL SComp
> Version: 0.1
> Received-Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 10:04:00 -0400 (EDT)
> Source-IP: 98.173.52.230
> Reported-Domain: mischievous.us
> Redacted-Address: redacted
> Redacted-Address: redacted@
>
> Along with also a copy of the original message.
>
> Using the "Received-Date" header, I can see that it looks as if the timing
> would point to one particular list member, but he says he's not doing
> anything like that.  (As a matter of fact, he has told me, on a few
> occasions, that he didn't even see the message in question at all!)
>
> I've read that some people have addressed this by inserting a unique
> string at the end of each person's message.  I don't see a way to do this
> with Mailman 2.1.22.  Would something like this be possible with more
> recent versions such as 2.1.27, or even the latest 3.x version?  Are there
> other ways to address this?  I don't want to reprimand the person, I just
> want to educate them to not mark list messages as abuse!
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!
>
> /raj
>
> --
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> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
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> rclemings%40gmail.com
>



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[Mailman-Users] How to track down someone mislabeling msgs as abuse?

[Richard Johnson]

I have a mailing list which has 51 members, all friends of mine.  We use it to 
communicate on things related to our history club.  About 1-2 times a month, I 
receive an automated message from AOL's abuse list, saying that someone has 
marked one of the messages as "abuse".  Unfortunately, there's no way to track 
down who this could be, since there are about 5 addresses on the list which are 
AOL addresses.  All I get is this:

Feedback-Type: abuse
User-Agent: AOL SComp
Version: 0.1
Received-Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 10:04:00 -0400 (EDT)
Source-IP: 98.173.52.230
Reported-Domain: mischievous.us
Redacted-Address: redacted
Redacted-Address: redacted@

Along with also a copy of the original message.

Using the "Received-Date" header, I can see that it looks as if the timing 
would point to one particular list member, but he says he's not doing anything 
like that.  (As a matter of fact, he has told me, on a few occasions, that he 
didn't even see the message in question at all!)

I've read that some people have addressed this by inserting a unique string at 
the end of each person's message.  I don't see a way to do this with Mailman 
2.1.22.  Would something like this be possible with more recent versions such 
as 2.1.27, or even the latest 3.x version?  Are there other ways to address 
this?  I don't want to reprimand the person, I just want to educate them to not 
mark list messages as abuse!

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

/raj

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Re: [Mailman-Users] How do I run 2.x mailman more securely?

[Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users]

On 05/31/2018 09:33 PM, incoming-pythonli...@rjl.com wrote:
I wrote scripts that read the list and generated a rule per network. 
It can be slow, but has worked reliably for many years.  Since it is a 
mailserver, performance has not been a big issue.  I am in the process 
of designing a replacement.  If you enter your list of networks  as a 
separate iptables list, then you only need to call that list when the 
traffic is on the relevant port(s), so you avoid traversing the list 
for other services.


*nod*

Thank you for sharing.

I've done something similar with IPSets and recently using routing with 
reverse path filtering.


I've found all of the above to be quite effective.



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Re: [Mailman-Users] How do I run 2.x mailman more securely?

[incoming-pythonlists]

On 05/31/2018 06:24 PM, Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users wrote:
>
>> There are many ways to implement the same thing.  Before there were
>> modules in the kernel for this, I simply pulled lists of address
>> blocks out of databases and incorporated them into my IPtables
>> lists.  There are better tools to do this today.
>
> ACK
>
> I'm curious, did you use IPSets or just a rule per network / IP?

I wrote scripts that read the list and generated a rule per network.  It
can be slow, but has worked reliably for many years.  Since it is a
mailserver, performance has not been a big issue.  I am in the process
of designing a replacement.  If you enter your list of networks  as a
separate iptables list, then you only need to call that list when the
traffic is on the relevant port(s), so you avoid traversing the list for
other services.

Nataraj


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Re: [Mailman-Users] How do I run 2.x mailman more securely?

[Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users]

On 05/31/2018 06:37 PM, incoming-pythonli...@rjl.com wrote:
Both are valid alternatives.  There may be performance advantages, 
to stopping attacks at the firewall level instead of higher up in the 
application stack.


Agreed, on both accounts.

Firewalls also have a tendency to protect multiple machines, not just 
one. (I'm referring to network appliance type firewalls, not host based.)


No, this is not security through obscurity.  It runs on a different 
port so I can add firewall rules that effect only mailman service and 
not other web applications.


Fair enough.

I need to give my users a url that they can easily remember.  It's too 
complex to have to give them urls with port numbers in them, and since 
this is not security through obscurity, it is not a problem.


Fair.


yes


*nod*

There are many ways to implement the same thing.  Before there were 
modules in the kernel for this, I simply pulled lists of address blocks 
out of databases and incorporated them into my IPtables lists.  There are 
better tools to do this today.


ACK

I'm curious, did you use IPSets or just a rule per network / IP?

It was unclear from the OPs initial posting whether it was a private 
or a public mailing list.  What I describe here probably would not be 
appropriate for a public list and the best solution there is probably to 
upgrade to mailman 3 if they need a more secure interface that is wide 
open to the public.  VPN and/or fwknop (which is primarily SPA though the 
older port knocking is still supported) are more suitable if you have 
a private list where user membership must be approved anyway and your 
moderators and admins might use these tools to have access to mailman, 
but the web GUI would be blocked from public access.


Certainly adding web server based username authentication sounds pretty 
cumbersome to me because users would have to login twice,


Maybe, maybe not.

I've seen applications that can re-use the web server's authentication 
mechanism.  This would likely be a code change to Mailman.  (I have no 
idea how big.)


though from a security standpoint it would help protect from 
vulnerabilities in the mailman web GUI.


;-)

There's no one answer to solving these problems.  I'm only sharing 
ideas that have worked for me.  The less of the public Internet that 
can apply brute force attacks on your web interface, the less likely 
you are to have a compromise.  Also, the less junk in your log files, 
the easier it is to monitor the logs.


Nope.  Hence my interest in what others have done and why the did it. 
I'm always interested in observing and hopefully learning.


I plan to go to mailman 3, but in the meantime I have minimal issues with 
attacks on my mailman GUI.  Maybe not the perfect solution for everyone, 
but it is effective.


If it does what you need it to and you feel comfortable maintaining it, 
then more power to you.




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Re: [Mailman-Users] How do I run 2.x mailman more securely?

[incoming-pythonlists]

On 05/31/2018 11:25 AM, Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users wrote:
> I feel like I'm missing something and as such have some questions.
>
> On 05/31/2018 11:42 AM, incoming-pythonli...@rjl.com wrote:
>> Depending on where your users are coming from, it might be easier to
>> limit access to the GUI using a firewall.
>
> Why are you using a firewall instead of leveraging the web server's
> ability to filter by IP?

Both are valid alternatives.  There may be performance advantages, to
stopping attacks at the firewall level instead of higher up in the
application stack.

>
>> What I do, is to run the mailman GUI on a non-standard https port.
>
> Okay.  (Additional) security through obscurity.  Sure.  I do similar
> with various things.

No, this is not security through obscurity.  It runs on a different port
so I can add firewall rules that effect only mailman service and not
other web applications.

>
>> I then create webserver URL rewrites that redirect url access to that
>> port.
>
> Why?  I feel like this voids hiding the Mailman Web UI on an alternate
> port?

I need to give my users a url that they can easily remember.  It's too
complex to have to give them urls with port numbers in them, and since
this is not security through obscurity, it is not a problem.

>
>> I use my firewall (IPTABLES), to control who can access the GUI.  If
>> all of your users come from a LAN inside an office, you can easily
>> restrict access to only those on the LAN.
>
> Or is this purely so that you can protect the Mailman Web UI via the
> firewall without impacting other web resources running on the default
> ports?

yes

>
>> I've also used thing like GEOIP, and other tools to limit access to
>> specific countries or specific geographic areas or specific service
>> providers.  Alot of attacks come from outside countries and limiting
>> access substantially reduces attacks on my servers.
>
> I've not messed with GeoIP filters in a long time.  I don't know how
> IPTables' GoIP feature set compares with Apache's / Nginx's GeoIP
> feature set.

There are many ways to implement the same thing.  Before there were
modules in the kernel for this, I simply pulled lists of address blocks
out of databases and incorporated them into my IPtables lists.  There
are better tools to do this today.
>
>> You could also require users to use a VPN or fwknop in order to access
>> the GUI.  This is easy if your users already access your site over a
>> VPN.
>
> I can see a VPN for corporate users.  I think it's a high bar for most
> public mailing lists.  Maybe not for the (few) administrator(s).
>
> I feel like port knocking is a REALLY HIGH BAR for most public mailing
> lists.

It was unclear from the OPs initial posting whether it was a private or
a public mailing list.  What I describe here probably would not be
appropriate for a public list and the best solution there is probably to
upgrade to mailman 3 if they need a more secure interface that is wide
open to the public.  VPN and/or fwknop (which is primarily SPA though
the older port knocking is still supported) are more suitable if you
have a private list where user membership must be approved anyway and
your moderators and admins might use these tools to have access to
mailman, but the web GUI would be blocked from public access.

Certainly adding web server based username authentication sounds pretty
cumbersome to me because users would have to login twice, though from a
security standpoint it would help protect from vulnerabilities in the
mailman web GUI.

There's no one answer to solving these problems.  I'm only sharing ideas
that have worked for me.  The less of the public Internet that can apply
brute force attacks on your web interface, the less likely you are to
have a compromise.  Also, the less junk in your log files, the easier it
is to monitor the logs.

I plan to go to mailman 3, but in the meantime I have minimal issues
with attacks on my mailman GUI.  Maybe not the perfect solution for
everyone, but it is effective.

Nataraj

>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How do I run 2.x mailman more securely?

[Dimitri Maziuk]

On 05/31/2018 04:52 PM, Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users wrote:
> On 05/31/2018 03:05 PM, Dimitri Maziuk wrote:
>> What exactly is it about mailman usernames and passwords that you are
>> trying to protect with HTTPS?
> 
> I wasn't talking about Mailman usernames (email addresses) and
> passwords.  I was talking about the usernames and passwords for Basic
> HTTP(S) authentication.  As in authenticating to the web server and
> having it control who can access the Mailman Web UI.

Ah, sorry, I didn't realize you propose to protect subscriber's username
and password by requiring a second username and password to get to them.
Moving along now.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] How do I run 2.x mailman more securely?

[Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users]

On 05/31/2018 03:05 PM, Dimitri Maziuk wrote:
What exactly is it about mailman usernames and passwords that you are 
trying to protect with HTTPS?


I wasn't talking about Mailman usernames (email addresses) and 
passwords.  I was talking about the usernames and passwords for Basic 
HTTP(S) authentication.  As in authenticating to the web server and 
having it control who can access the Mailman Web UI.


There's always the fact that HTTPS (SSL/TLS) protects both sets of 
credentials.


I was replying to the original poster, Michael P., suggesting that 
HTTP(S)'s Basic Authentication can be used to protect the Mailman Web UI.




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Re: [Mailman-Users] How do I run 2.x mailman more securely?

[Dimitri Maziuk]

On 05/31/2018 02:40 PM, Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users wrote:
> On 05/31/2018 01:18 PM, Dimitri Maziuk wrote:
>> Yeah, I too once thought that was a good idea.
> 
> I'm not quite following you.  Are you saying that you now dislike
> HTTP(S) usernames & passwords specifically?

I do dislike the HTTPS push specifically. Google has a vested interest
in stopping those pesky ISPs from replacing Google's revenue-generating
ads with their own. I don't.

What exactly is it about mailman usernames and passwords that you are
trying to protect with HTTPS?

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Re: [Mailman-Users] How does one edit the .pck files?

[michaelof--- via Mailman-Users]

Hi Michael D.,


although I strongly believe it's NOT recommended to do what you're thinking 
about for a productive environment - it's
open and free software, have fun ;-)

Instead of just changing the .pck files, as a starting point, I would suggest 
to download the mailman sources, try to
figure out how they do it, and then maybe "tweak" this, getting your own fork.


Just my five cents,
Michael


Am 31.05.2018 um 21:50 schrieb Parker, Michael D.:
> I'd trying to change one of the parameters in one of the .pck files  How 
> can this file be edited/changed in Linux?
> 
> I've tried searching but cannot find what I want.
> 
> Thanks.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How does one edit the .pck files?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 05/31/2018 12:50 PM, Parker, Michael D. wrote:
> I'd trying to change one of the parameters in one of the .pck files  How 
> can this file be edited/changed in Linux?
> 
> I've tried searching but cannot find what I want.


If you're talking about Mailman 2.1's config.pck, you can edit it with
mailman's bin/withlist, but what specifically are you trying to do?

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[Mailman-Users] How does one edit the .pck files?

[Parker, Michael D.]

I'd trying to change one of the parameters in one of the .pck files  How 
can this file be edited/changed in Linux?

I've tried searching but cannot find what I want.

Thanks.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How do I run 2.x mailman more securely?

[Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users]

On 05/31/2018 01:18 PM, Dimitri Maziuk wrote:

Yeah, I too once thought that was a good idea.


I'm not quite following you.  Are you saying that you now dislike 
HTTP(S) usernames & passwords specifically?  Or are you saying that you 
dislike hosting something yourself?


And then heartbleed came along, and our knee-jerk security department 
cut off everyone who hasn't patched in 24 hours -- at the gateway.


Problems happen.  It's how you (or the powers that be) respond to 
something that matters.


As Murphy would have it, I was traveling across the Atlantic and our 
other IT guy was driving across North America. And of course cut-off at 
the gateway meant no mail, no ssh, no way to know what happened and no 
way to fix it.


Yep.  Murphy and his law will get you when you least expect it or are 
least able to respond to it.


This stuff sounds like it's coming from the same security experts. 
Proper answer with those guys is don't run mailman. Export the subscribers 
and use it as CC list in Orifice'365: you can't go wrong with "industry 
standard".


I'm going to disagree with you there.  You most certainly can go wrong 
with "industry standard" or "what everybody else does".




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Re: [Mailman-Users] How do I run 2.x mailman more securely?

[Dimitri Maziuk]

On 05/31/2018 01:25 PM, Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users wrote:
> On 05/30/2018 03:36 PM, Parker, Michael D. wrote:
>> I've been assigned the task of attempting to secure our current
>> implementation of GNU MailMan.
> 
> One thing that I've not seen (or missed) in this thread is the idea of
> leveraging HTTPS usernames and passwords to protect the web interface.

Yeah, I too once thought that was a good idea. And then heartbleed came
along, and our knee-jerk security department cut off everyone who hasn't
patched in 24 hours -- *at the gateway*. As Murphy would have it, I was
traveling across the Atlantic and our other IT guy was driving across
North America. And of course cut-off at the gateway meant no mail, no
ssh, no way to know what happened and no way to fix it.

This stuff sounds like it's coming from the same security experts.
Proper answer with those guys is don't run mailman. Export the
subscribers and use it as CC list in Orifice'365: you can't go wrong
with "industry standard".

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Re: [Mailman-Users] How do I run 2.x mailman more securely?

[Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users]

I feel like I'm missing something and as such have some questions.

On 05/31/2018 11:42 AM, incoming-pythonli...@rjl.com wrote:

Depending on where your users are coming from, it might be easier to
limit access to the GUI using a firewall.


Why are you using a firewall instead of leveraging the web server's 
ability to filter by IP?



What I do, is to run the mailman GUI on a non-standard https port.


Okay.  (Additional) security through obscurity.  Sure.  I do similar 
with various things.


I then create webserver URL rewrites that redirect url access to that 
port.


Why?  I feel like this voids hiding the Mailman Web UI on an alternate port?

I use my firewall (IPTABLES), to control who can access the GUI.  If all 
of your users come from a LAN inside an office, you can easily restrict 
access to only those on the LAN.


Or is this purely so that you can protect the Mailman Web UI via the 
firewall without impacting other web resources running on the default ports?


I've also used thing like GEOIP, and other tools to limit access to 
specific countries or specific geographic areas or specific service 
providers.  Alot of attacks come from outside countries and limiting 
access substantially reduces attacks on my servers.


I've not messed with GeoIP filters in a long time.  I don't know how 
IPTables' GoIP feature set compares with Apache's / Nginx's GeoIP 
feature set.



You could also require users to use a VPN or fwknop in order to access
the GUI.  This is easy if your users already access your site over a VPN.


I can see a VPN for corporate users.  I think it's a high bar for most 
public mailing lists.  Maybe not for the (few) administrator(s).


I feel like port knocking is a REALLY HIGH BAR for most public mailing 
lists.




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Re: [Mailman-Users] How do I run 2.x mailman more securely?

[Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users]

On 05/31/2018 12:25 PM, Grant Taylor wrote:
IMHO the web server has a LOT more experience at user access control 
than most web applications. As such, I feel like the web server probably 
has a better handle on how to do it.


Apache (and I suspect Nginx) has the ability to use client side TLS 
certificates to authenticate the client to the server.  —  I have yet to 
see any Web UI leverage this.  —  It's built into the web server.  }:-)




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Re: [Mailman-Users] How do I run 2.x mailman more securely?

[Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users]

On 05/30/2018 03:36 PM, Parker, Michael D. wrote:
I've been assigned the task of attempting to secure our current 
implementation of GNU MailMan.


One thing that I've not seen (or missed) in this thread is the idea of 
leveraging HTTPS usernames and passwords to protect the web interface.


IMHO the web server has a LOT more experience at user access control 
than most web applications. As such, I feel like the web server probably 
has a better handle on how to do it.


As for the default ugly username & password dialog box, there are ways 
around that.




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Re: [Mailman-Users] How do I run 2.x mailman more securely?

[incoming-pythonlists]

On 05/31/2018 09:52 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 05/31/2018 08:10 AM, Carl Zwanzig wrote:
>
>>> 3.   Can user passwords be eliminated and have the list
>>> administrator make any user adjustments which should not be necessary?
>> At a great loss of utility, sure. This would require a code change.
>
> The code changes to do it right would not be simple.

Depending on where your users are coming from, it might be easier to
limit access to the GUI using a firewall.  What I do, is to run the
mailman GUI on a non-standard https port.  I then create webserver URL
rewrites that redirect url access to that port.  I use my firewall
(IPTABLES), to control who can access the GUI.  If all of your users
come from a LAN inside an office, you can easily restrict access to only
those on the LAN.  I've also used thing like GEOIP, and other tools to
limit access to specific countries or specific geographic areas or
specific service providers.  Alot of attacks come from outside countries
and limiting access substantially reduces attacks on my servers.

You could also require users to use a VPN or fwknop in order to access
the GUI.  This is easy if your users already access your site over a VPN.

Nataraj

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Re: [Mailman-Users] How do I run 2.x mailman more securely?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 05/31/2018 08:10 AM, Carl Zwanzig wrote:
> I'm sure Mark has more complete answers, but diving in anyways :)


Carl's answers are good, but to add a bit ...


> On 5/30/2018 2:36 PM, Parker, Michael D. wrote:
> 
>> Some of the initial items that have been directed my way:
>> 1.   Can archiving be totally and permanently be eliminated?
> More than turning it off on a per-list basis? (This doesn't "secure"
> mailman, it only makes archives unusable. You'd be better off to hide
> them behind a web page requiring web-server authentication.) Won't stop
> users from keeping their own archives, of course. (Or change the code to
> disable them.)


To disable archiving completely, you could add to mm_cfg.py

GLOBAL_PIPELINE.remove('ToArchive')


>> 2.   How and where are the passwords stored?
> IIRC users' list passwords are stored in the list config 'pickle' in the
> lists/ directory; see the comments in "Mailman/SecurityManager.py".


Correct.


>> 3.   Can user passwords be eliminated and have the list
>> administrator make any user adjustments which should not be necessary?
> At a great loss of utility, sure. This would require a code change.


The code changes to do it right would not be simple.


>> 4.   Does the website have to run in http: since passwords are
>> entered at points in the interactions?
> No, the FAQ describes to to enable HTTPS.


Specifically .


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Re: [Mailman-Users] How do I run 2.x mailman more securely?

[Carl Zwanzig]

I'm sure Mark has more complete answers, but diving in anyways :)

On 5/30/2018 2:36 PM, Parker, Michael D. wrote:

I've been assigned the task of attempting to secure our current implementation 
of GNU MailMan.

You're probably better off changing to MM3, but if you have to stay with v2--


What did you do?
Needs a better definition of "secure" and an understanding of the intended 
goals- protect the archive? spam prevention? keep users from (un)subscribing 
lists? Are these goals part of the _mailing_list_manager_ or another part of 
the system (web server, email MTA & spam filtering, file sharing, etc)?




Some of the initial items that have been directed my way:
1.   Can archiving be totally and permanently be eliminated?
More than turning it off on a per-list basis? (This doesn't "secure" 
mailman, it only makes archives unusable. You'd be better off to hide them 
behind a web page requiring web-server authentication.) Won't stop users 
from keeping their own archives, of course. (Or change the code to disable 
them.)




2.   How and where are the passwords stored?
IIRC users' list passwords are stored in the list config 'pickle' in the 
lists/ directory; see the comments in "Mailman/SecurityManager.py".




3.   Can user passwords be eliminated and have the list administrator make 
any user adjustments which should not be necessary?

At a great loss of utility, sure. This would require a code change.



4.   Does the website have to run in http: since passwords are entered at 
points in the interactions?

No, the FAQ describes to to enable HTTPS.


Later,

z!
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[Mailman-Users] How do I run 2.x mailman more securely?

[Parker, Michael D.]

I've been assigned the task of attempting to secure our current implementation 
of GNU MailMan.

Have any of you out there done this?

What did you do?


Some of the initial items that have been directed my way:


1.   Can archiving be totally and permanently be eliminated?

2.   How and where are the passwords stored?

3.   Can user passwords be eliminated and have the list administrator make 
any user adjustments which should not be necessary?

4.   Does the website have to run in http: since passwords are entered at 
points in the interactions?

Thanks for your guidance and thoughts.




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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to remove "cc" of sender but retain "sender"?

[Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users]

On 03/08/2018 05:22 PM, Richard Johnson wrote:
(1) set the "From" as the list address, while also (2) NOT including 
the sender in to any "CC" list, and instead including the sender in a 
"Sender" header.


That really sounds like something that I would tackle with Procmail or a 
specially written filter (Perl or Python).


1)  Extract and save the From:.
2)  Remove all To: / From: / CC: headers
3)  Add a new To: set to the list.
4)  Add a new Sender: set to the saved From:.

Aside:  I'd likely also remove other headers that tend to break things, 
like DKIM* / Authentication* / et al.




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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to remove "cc" of sender but retain "sender"?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 03/08/2018 05:51 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> The things that come closest are:
> 
> 1) first_strip_reply_to = Yes
>reply_goes_to_list = This List
>from_is_list = Munge From
> 
> This sets the list in both From: and Reply-To: but also puts the
> original From: in Cc:
> 
> 2) anonymous_list = yes
> 
> This sets the list in From: but hides the original sender completely.


and 3) first_strip_reply_to = Yes
   reply_goes_to_list = Poster
   from_is_list = Munge From

Which is like 1) except the original From: is in Reply-To: rather than Cc:

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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to remove "cc" of sender but retain "sender"?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 03/08/2018 04:22 PM, Richard Johnson wrote:
> Hi!  I hope this isn't just a matter of my not having searched enough!  I 
> searched through all of the configuration I see, but didn't find a way to 
> configure a mailing list to (1) set the "From" as the list address, while 
> also (2) NOT including the sender in to any "CC" list, and instead including 
> the sender in a "Sender" header.  Why do I want this?  I want all replies to 
> go back to the list, but without any CC's going back to the sender, and while 
> still retaining enough Sender information so that people can see from whom 
> the message originated.


You can't do it without modifying code.

The things that come closest are:

1) first_strip_reply_to = Yes
   reply_goes_to_list = This List
   from_is_list = Munge From

This sets the list in both From: and Reply-To: but also puts the
original From: in Cc:

2) anonymous_list = yes

This sets the list in From: but hides the original sender completely.


> Maybe there's some better way or some good reason why I really don't want 
> this?
> 
> (What I'm seeing is that some mail user agents will sometimes include the 
> sender of the message to which they are replying as well as their own address 
> into a "CC" list.  I'm hoping to avoid the duplicate messages, if possible.)


Even if you did modify the code to do what you say you want, you'll find
that some MUAs will reply to the Sender: and others will make it
difficult or impossible to see the Sender: at all.

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[Mailman-Users] How to remove "cc" of sender but retain "sender"?

[Richard Johnson]

Hi!  I hope this isn't just a matter of my not having searched enough!  I 
searched through all of the configuration I see, but didn't find a way to 
configure a mailing list to (1) set the "From" as the list address, while also 
(2) NOT including the sender in to any "CC" list, and instead including the 
sender in a "Sender" header.  Why do I want this?  I want all replies to go 
back to the list, but without any CC's going back to the sender, and while 
still retaining enough Sender information so that people can see from whom the 
message originated.

Maybe there's some better way or some good reason why I really don't want this?

(What I'm seeing is that some mail user agents will sometimes include the 
sender of the message to which they are replying as well as their own address 
into a "CC" list.  I'm hoping to avoid the duplicate messages, if possible.)

/raj

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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to change the administrators account email?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 10/11/2017 12:51 AM, Marc Gilliatt wrote:
> I did click on the middle link, and it took me to the "List Administrator 
> Password" page. Is it a simple process of resetting that password?


As I said at
,

> Once there, you need to authenticate with either the list's admin
> password or the site password if there is one. See
> .

which has info on resetting the password and setting a site password.


> Also, that script you have given me, can that reset the owner's email for all 
> the lists? And thank you for the help you have shown me, I truly appreciate 
> it.
...
> 
> To set the owner for all lists from the command line run this script:
   ^^^

The for loop does all lists.


> 
> #!/bin/sh
> cd /path/to/mailman/bin
> f=`mktemp`
> echo "owner = 'u...@example.com'" > $f
> for l in `./list_lists --bare`; do
> ./config_list -i $f $l
> done
> rm $f
> 
> where /path/to/mailman/bin is the path to Mailman's bin/ directory and
> u...@example.com is the address you want to set the owner to.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to change the administrators account email?

[Keith Seyffarth]

Marc Gilliatt  writes:

> I did click on the middle link, and it took me to the "List
> Administrator Password" page. Is it a simple process of resetting that
> password? Also, that script you have given me, can that reset the
> owner's email for all the lists? And thank you for the help you have
> shown me, I truly appreciate it.

Marc,

Now that you have gotten to the "list administrator password" page, you
need to enter the administrator password for the list. Once you enter
this, you will be taken to the General Options page where you can change
the email address of the list owner.

Hopefully Mark will weigh in on the commands he sent. I don't recall all
of them currently, but the discussion so far had been about changing the
list owner email address.

Keith


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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to change the administrators account email?

[Marc Gilliatt]

I did click on the middle link, and it took me to the "List Administrator 
Password" page. Is it a simple process of resetting that password? Also, that 
script you have given me, can that reset the owner's email for all the lists? 
And thank you for the help you have shown me, I truly appreciate it.

From: Mailman-Users <mailman-users-bounces+m.gilliatt=live.co...@python.org> on 
behalf of Mark Sapiro <m...@msapiro.net>
Sent: 11 October 2017 02:52
To: mailman-users@python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] How to change the administrators account email?

On 10/10/2017 02:53 AM, Marc Gilliatt wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've attached screenshots of the lists, and when I go into one of those 
> lists. That's where I'm seeing the subscribe icon?

Note: the screenshots did not go to the list because the list's content
filtering removed them, but Keith and I got them by direct copy and they
were what appeared to be a portion of the listinfo/ overview page and a
portion of the listinfo page for a particular list.

As Keith said, if you scroll to the bottom of the page that begins
"About Assets-budget-test" you should see a footer like

Assets-budget-test list run by u...@example.com
Assets-budget-test administrative interface (requires authorization)
Overview of all example.com mailing lists

The middle link is a link to the admin interface for the list where you
can change things for this list including the owner address which is the
u...@example.com address on the first line.

Even if you don't see the footer, you can get to the admin interface by
changing '/listinfo/' and only that in the URL of that page to '/admin/'.

If you have command line access to the server, you can do this more
easily from the command line than by visiting each lists admin pages in
turn.

To visit all the admin pages on the web, it is easier to start with a
URL like the one for a single list but ending with '/admin/' which will
give a page similar to the listinfo overview but with links to the admin
pages.

To set the owner for all lists from the command line run this script:

#!/bin/sh
cd /path/to/mailman/bin
f=`mktemp`
echo "owner = 'u...@example.com'" > $f
for l in `./list_lists --bare`; do
./config_list -i $f $l
done
rm $f

where /path/to/mailman/bin is the path to Mailman's bin/ directory and
u...@example.com is the address you want to set the owner to.

--
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to change the administrators account email?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 10/10/2017 02:53 AM, Marc Gilliatt wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've attached screenshots of the lists, and when I go into one of those 
> lists. That's where I'm seeing the subscribe icon?

Note: the screenshots did not go to the list because the list's content
filtering removed them, but Keith and I got them by direct copy and they
were what appeared to be a portion of the listinfo/ overview page and a
portion of the listinfo page for a particular list.

As Keith said, if you scroll to the bottom of the page that begins
"About Assets-budget-test" you should see a footer like

Assets-budget-test list run by u...@example.com
Assets-budget-test administrative interface (requires authorization)
Overview of all example.com mailing lists

The middle link is a link to the admin interface for the list where you
can change things for this list including the owner address which is the
u...@example.com address on the first line.

Even if you don't see the footer, you can get to the admin interface by
changing '/listinfo/' and only that in the URL of that page to '/admin/'.

If you have command line access to the server, you can do this more
easily from the command line than by visiting each lists admin pages in
turn.

To visit all the admin pages on the web, it is easier to start with a
URL like the one for a single list but ending with '/admin/' which will
give a page similar to the listinfo overview but with links to the admin
pages.

To set the owner for all lists from the command line run this script:

#!/bin/sh
cd /path/to/mailman/bin
f=`mktemp`
echo "owner = 'u...@example.com'" > $f
for l in `./list_lists --bare`; do
./config_list -i $f $l
done
rm $f

where /path/to/mailman/bin is the path to Mailman's bin/ directory and
u...@example.com is the address you want to set the owner to.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to change the administrators account email?

[Keith Seyffarth]

Marc,

> I've attached screenshots of the lists, and when I go into one of those lists.
> That's where I'm seeing the subscribe icon?

On the screen with the tan or beige blocks and the "Using
Assets-budget-test" and "Subscribing to Assets-budget-test" headings
(this is the main page for this mailing list), if you scroll to the
bottom of the page, do you see the link Mark described:

>> LISTNAME administrative interface (requires authorization)


Keith

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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to change the administrators account email?

[Marc Gilliatt]

Hi,

I've attached screenshots of the lists, and when I go into one of those lists. 
That's where I'm seeing the subscribe icon?

Thanks,
Marc

From: Keith Seyffarth <w...@weif.net>
Sent: 09 October 2017 17:21
To: Marc Gilliatt
Cc: m...@msapiro.net; mailman-users@python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] How to change the administrators account email?


Marc,

> I appreciate your help. I've spoken to my colleague, he is not sure on
> how to change the email either, which helps a lot I suppose. What he
> has told me, is that when he first set up and configured Mailman, he
> used his work email instead of IT's. I'm not too sure if this has shed
> some light on the issue I'm having?

It would really help if you could answer some of Mark's questions. I see
the instruction I tried to give was confusing to you. You do not need to
be subscribed to have administrative access and to access the General
Options page.

Here are Mark's questions and instructions again:

> Where do you see this "subscribe" icon? If you click it, does it take
> you to a page that looks something like the one at
> <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>?
>
> If so, where you ultimately want to go is to the link at the bottom of
> that page that looks like
>
> LISTNAME administrative interface (requires authorization)
>
> Once there, you need to authenticate with either the list's admin
> password or the site password if there is one. See
> <https://wiki.list.org/x/4030543>.

Does your subscribe page look like the one that Mark linked to above?

Are you able to find the "LISTNAME administrative interface" link at the
bottom of that page?

Keith

--

from my mac to yours...

Keith Seyffarth
mailto:w...@weif.net
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to change the administrators account email?

[Keith Seyffarth]

Marc,

> I appreciate your help. I've spoken to my colleague, he is not sure on
> how to change the email either, which helps a lot I suppose. What he
> has told me, is that when he first set up and configured Mailman, he
> used his work email instead of IT's. I'm not too sure if this has shed
> some light on the issue I'm having?

It would really help if you could answer some of Mark's questions. I see
the instruction I tried to give was confusing to you. You do not need to
be subscribed to have administrative access and to access the General
Options page.

Here are Mark's questions and instructions again:

> Where do you see this "subscribe" icon? If you click it, does it take
> you to a page that looks something like the one at
> ?
>
> If so, where you ultimately want to go is to the link at the bottom of
> that page that looks like
>
> LISTNAME administrative interface (requires authorization)
>
> Once there, you need to authenticate with either the list's admin
> password or the site password if there is one. See
> .

Does your subscribe page look like the one that Mark linked to above?

Are you able to find the "LISTNAME administrative interface" link at the
bottom of that page?

Keith

-- 

from my mac to yours...

Keith Seyffarth
mailto:w...@weif.net
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to change the administrators account email?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 10/09/2017 06:20 AM, Marc Gilliatt wrote:
> I appreciate your help. I've spoken to my colleague, he is not sure on how to 
> change the email either, which helps a lot I suppose. What he has told me, is 
> that when he first set up and configured Mailman, he used his work email 
> instead of IT's. I'm not too sure if this has shed some light on the issue 
> I'm having?


It does not. Perhaps if we knew exactly what he did to install/configure
Mailman, that would help.

Please provide the information previously asked for.


> We have no idea what you are seeing. If you can post the actual URLs
> that you are going to, we might be able to be more helpful.
> 
> Where do you see this "subscribe" icon? If you click it, does it take
> you to a page that looks something like the one at
> ?
-- 
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