[Mailman-Users] question about Mailman

[George Blazer]

Could you please tell me ? does Mailman work for Win
2000?

Thanks much

=
Sincerely,
George Blazer
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

__
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Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
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[Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman

[Tony O]

Is there a limit to the number of subscribers the Mailman mailing list can
have?

Thanks
Tony


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[Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman

[LettersByUs Admin]

 I was just wondering if there is a limit of how many subscribers can be on a list?
 
I am a first time user of the Mailman program and have found it to be very simple and easy to understand.
 
Thank you
Janet LaGoy
 
~*~*~*~
Visit our website: http://lettersbyus.com
Email us at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 
 

[Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman !!

[webmaster]

Hello

 

Is there a way to run Mailman
on server with Python 1.5.2 my delicated server use
Ensim with  Python 1.5.2 internally
for mostly all functions !!!

I had contact with the company
there the server runs and this is there reply on my qouestion to upgrade my
server to the newest Python :

 

Hi Rob,

 

to use MailMan, it's
neccessary to have Python 2.1.x or higher installed - on your Server is the
stable Python 1.5.2 (comes with Ensim) installed.

 

If you really like to run
MailMan - it's a little tricky, because Ensim use Python 1.5.2 internally for
mostly all functions !!! 

so i'm personally a little
scary to update Python :-) i had a simmilar experience with a Perl Update
on a Ensim Server :-(

 

the only idea i have is to
do a parallel installation of Python 2.2.2 - and point MailMan to this
installation - but i'm NOT sure about this ! 

it's also a little
dangerous and timecomsuming task (expect 2-3 hours) - and i did't want to break
your servers config !!!

 

If there is any way - i
would suggest to use a PHP script - if there is any outthere ... or Majordomo 

 

warmest regards

 

--
Erich Fuchs

 

We want to run  email discussionsgroups on our http://veteransgroups.com server it’s
a non-profit server only for allied war-veterans, most of our groups are, on
this moment, on Yahoogroups, but we have many problems with the sending and
receiving of the mail, sometimes we have to wait seven of eight hours to
receive a mail, and that is very tricky when there is a emotional discussion
going on, In your software we find all the topics we need, 

Is there a way to solve this
problem?, or  do you know another
program that runs e.g on PHP or PERL with the same classifications as Mailman?

 

Please reply,

 

Warmest regards and a happy
New Year,

 

 

Rob Stolk

Webowner Veteranen.info,
War-Veterans.info, Veteransgroups.com

 

 

 

 

 






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[Mailman-Users] question about mailman...

[John Chilton]

Greetings,

Is it possible to use mailman with variables that will enable more personalization to 
a message.

For example, (Joe is the variable).
"Dear Joe,
Thank you Joe for the email.  Joe, we will answer your question as soon as possible. 
Take care, Joe.
Regards"

I currently use a different mail program (listmailpro.com).  The database holds more 
information than mailman.  If mailman could add the user name to the database in 
addition to the email address, it would seem the variable option would be easier to do.

If the variable option is currently available using a persons first or last name, 
could you please point me to the reference so I can learn how to use mailman.

kind regards,
john

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[Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman

[Liz Bugh]

Hi,

We are attempting to use your mailing program through our webhost, Bluehost,
for mail-outs to clients we do business with.  In setting up a test mailing
group, we encountered problems and Bluehost was not able to answer our
questions or help us at all.  Here is the issue:  The test mailing list I
set up was named "lizcontacts".  I sent an email to a member list of 3
people.  The member with Gmail received the email correctly ...  from "
lizconta...@txlands.net" ... plain and simple.  The members with Hotmail and
Yahoo received the email from "lizcontacts-boun...@txlands.net on behalf of
Liz Bugh (l...@txlands.net)"  Why the difference?  What actually bothers us
is the "bounces" word ... not very appealing for someone to view in their
inbox in a day where spam and destructive email is so prevalent.  How can we
eliminate "bounces" from the sender title?

I would greatly appreciate your help with this.

Thanks,

Liz Bugh
Heritage Select Investments, LLC
Secure Covenant Interests, Ltd.
1619 Sam Houston Avenue
Huntsville, Texas  77340

www.txlands.net

(936) 291-7141 - office
(936) 291-3036 - fax
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Re: [Mailman-Users] question about Mailman

[J C Lawrence]

On Wed, 5 Dec 2001 14:29:23 -0800 (PST) 
George Blazer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Could you please tell me ? does Mailman work for Win 2000?

Not currently, and no current plans or interest in that direction.  

-- 
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-(*)Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   He lived as a devil, eh?  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman

[Marc MERLIN]

On Fri, May 31, 2002 at 06:37:31PM -0400, Tony O wrote:
> Is there a limit to the number of subscribers the Mailman mailing list can
> have?

No, but the web interface gets noticeably slower when you start having
several tens of thousands.

Marc
-- 
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   what McDonalds is to gourmet cooking
  
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman !!

[Barry A. Warsaw]

I don't know anything about Ensim, but if it's even remotely Unix-y,
you should be able to do an "altinstall" of Python 2.2.2 in /usr/local.
E.g.:

./configure
make
make altinstall

Then when you configure Mailman, use --with-python=/usr/local/bin/python2.2

Or stick with Mailman 2.0.13, which is compatible with Python 1.5.2.

-Barry

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RE: [Mailman-Users] question about mailman...

[_Chris McKeever_]

There is a personalization settings, look back in the archives a bit, it
allows you to add email address per email and I think a few other variables,
there may do the trick you are looking for.  There was a posting a few days
ago regarding this, it is sometimes also listed with discussion on VERPS


> -Original Message-
> From: John Chilton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 7:09 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about mailman...
> Importance: High
> 
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> Is it possible to use mailman with variables that will enable 
> more personalization to a message.
> 
> For example, (Joe is the variable).
> "Dear Joe,
> Thank you Joe for the email.  Joe, we will answer your 
> question as soon as possible. 
> Take care, Joe.
> Regards"
> 
> I currently use a different mail program (listmailpro.com).  
> The database holds more information than mailman.  If mailman 
> could add the user name to the database in addition to the 
> email address, it would seem the variable option would be 
> easier to do.
> 
> If the variable option is currently available using a persons 
> first or last name, could you please point me to the 
> reference so I can learn how to use mailman.
> 
> kind regards,
> john
> 
> ---end of message---
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> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> 
> This message was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Unsubscribe or change your options at
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Re: [Mailman-Users] question about mailman...

[Todd]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

John Chilton wrote:
> Is it possible to use mailman with variables that will enable more
> personalization to a message.

Yes.

> If the variable option is currently available using a persons first or
> last name, could you please point me to the reference so I can learn how
> to use mailman.

See this FAQ:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.015.htp

- -- 
Todd  OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp

A hacker's interpretation of the 1st & 2nd amendments: They can have my
computer when they pry the gun from my cold dead fingers.

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iD8DBQE/FC5auv+09NZUB1oRAsVUAKCahpu+5J4d9zi4OaVPqcQZfNUi8wCgi1eW
weZ/fug7ZCFTO9qkOIKX6Jc=
=JVJv
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[Mailman-Users] Question about mailman 3

[Javad Hoseini-Nopendar]

Hello
I have a question about later versions of mailman. Do they have the feature 
to export list of members to Excel or TXT file?



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[Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting.

[Joe]

Hello, everyone.

A while ago I posted a question to this group about some problems I had been 
experiencing with my server and was recommended several Mailman hosting 
services by some of the members who replied to my original post either here or 
privately.

I have decided to follow this advice in order to save the time and effort it 
has become for me to maintain my server and the Mailman software up-to-date.

What has been your experience with hosting services ? Have you had any problems 
and what should I watch out for ? Are there any hosting services you would 
recommend ?

Thank you in advance for your responses.

Joe.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman

[Mark Sapiro]

Liz Bugh wrote:
>
>In setting up a test mailing
>group, we encountered problems and Bluehost was not able to answer our
>questions or help us at all.  Here is the issue:  The test mailing list I
>set up was named "lizcontacts".  I sent an email to a member list of 3
>people.  The member with Gmail received the email correctly ...  from "
>lizconta...@txlands.net" ... plain and simple.  The members with Hotmail and
>Yahoo received the email from "lizcontacts-boun...@txlands.net on behalf of
>Liz Bugh (l...@txlands.net)"  Why the difference?


The difference is not in the messages. It is in the way Microsoft
software (Outlook, Hotmail, Windows Live Mail) displays the message.


>What actually bothers us
>is the "bounces" word ... not very appealing for someone to view in their
>inbox in a day where spam and destructive email is so prevalent.  How can we
>eliminate "bounces" from the sender title?


You can't. Perhaps Bluehost can. See the FAQ article at
 for more information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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[Mailman-Users] Question about mailman/possible bug

[Suchandra Thapa]

After a recent upgrade to mailman 2.1.3, I came across a possible bug in
mailman.  The bug is triggered by a character being out of range at line
799 in Mailman/Cgi/admin.py.  The cvs commit for that line and the
comments indicate that the error should appear for non ascii
characters.   The code at that point is encoding the member list (?)
into the ascii character set.  First, are the comments correct? I.e. is
having an email address such as "André" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> is correct or is
this a valid email address?  Also is there any way I can clean up the
database if that email address is invalid?  Finally, an install of
mailman 2.1.2 was attempted to temporarily avoid the problem but an
error about a downgrade being dangerous was given.  Is a switch from
mailman 2.1.3 to 2.1.2 safe?


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about mailman 3

[Lindsay Haisley]

On Thu, 2013-07-11 at 20:16 +0430, Javad Hoseini-Nopendar wrote:
> I have a question about later versions of mailman. Do they have the feature 
> to export list of members to Excel or TXT file?

If you have console access to the account, you can use the list_members
command:

list_members listname   [lists member emails]
list_members -f listname[lists emails w. names as RFC-compliant address]
> 
You can also send a "who" command in the subject line to
listname-requ...@example.com with a password.  This isn't well
documented, but you'll find what documentation there is at
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/node10.html and
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/node41.html#a:commands

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FMP Computer Services |
512-259-1190  |  --- The Roadie
http://www.fmp.com|

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about mailman 3

[Mark Sapiro]

On 07/11/2013 09:48 AM, Lindsay Haisley wrote:
> On Thu, 2013-07-11 at 20:16 +0430, Javad Hoseini-Nopendar wrote:
>> I have a question about later versions of mailman. Do they have the feature 
>> to export list of members to Excel or TXT file?
> 
> If you have console access to the account, you can use the list_members
> command:
> 
> list_members listname [lists member emails]
> list_members -f listname  [lists emails w. names as RFC-compliant address]
>>
> You can also send a "who" command in the subject line to
> listname-requ...@example.com with a password.  This isn't well
> documented, but you'll find what documentation there is at
> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/node10.html and
> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/node41.html#a:commands


Or in the FAQ at , but the OP's question
appears to be about MM 3. In MM 3, Postorius may or may not have the
ability to export a membership list directly from the web UI. My guess
is that it does, but I don't actually know for sure.

-- 
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San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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[Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting service.

[Joe]

Hello, everyone.

In my attempt to find a Mailman hosting service I have received a message from 
one IT specialist advising me to avoid hosting services that utilize a cPanel. 
According to this specialist this is a bad arrangement and one that doesn't 
provide me full control of my lists. Since I am not an IT specialist I don't 
know what a cPanel is or how this can be a problem. Can any of you enlighten me 
? What is a cPanel, why can this be a problem and how would it not allow me 
full control of my lists ?

In addition, what problems should I expect to encounter in hosting my lists 
with an outside Mailman hosting service ?

Thank you in advance,

Joe.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting service.

[Joe]

Hi, Brian.

Thanks for your reply. I will be calling you soon.

I will not disclose the name or e-mail of the IT specialist but his private 
message to me expressed his concern over the use of cPanel as a tool for the 
management of Mailman.

Here is an excerpt from the e-mail I received:


Joe, unless you have COMPLETE "List Control", DON'T do it ! ! !

If you think you HATE the "baby sitting" of current set-up, you don't 
know/fully understand 
the full meaning of HATE ! ! ! 

For over a decade I have prayed to "Hit the Lottery" as very FIRST thing I 
would do is pay
for Dedicated Server so I could have FULL control without the "Baby Sitting" of 
cPanel ! ! !


Since I am not an IT specialist I have to ask myself, why would he feel so 
strongly about this ? What problems should I expect to encounter ?

Thank you,

Joseph.



On February 18, 2014, at 10:36 AM, Brian Carpenter  wrote:

>> -Original Message-
>> From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-
>> bounces+brian=emwd@python.org] On Behalf Of Joe
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 1:29 PM
>> To: mailman-users@python.org Users
>> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting service.
>> 
>> Hello, everyone.
>> 
>> In my attempt to find a Mailman hosting service I have received a message
>> from one IT specialist advising me to avoid hosting services that utilize
> a
>> cPanel. According to this specialist this is a bad arrangement and one
> that
>> doesn't provide me full control of my lists. Since I am not an IT
> specialist I
>> don't know what a cPanel is or how this can be a problem. Can any of you
>> enlighten me ? What is a cPanel, why can this be a problem and how would
> it
>> not allow me full control of my lists ?
>> 
>> In addition, what problems should I expect to encounter in hosting my
> lists
>> with an outside Mailman hosting service ?
>> 
>> Thank you in advance,
>> 
>> Joe.
>> --
>> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
>> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
>> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-
>> users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-
>> users/brian%40emwd.com
> 
> Hi Joe:
> 
> I think we discussed your mailman needs a couple of times over the phone.
> 
> cPanel is a webhosting control panel that is very popular (for good reason)
> among web hosting companies and it includes the use of mailman.
> 
> cPanel is typically used within a shared hosting environment and I believe
> it has done a lot in getting mailman into the hands of many list users.
> Because of the nature of a shared hosting environment, typical mailman users
> would not have access to the mailman server itself in order to make any
> customizations such as searchable archives, etc. However my company hosts
> over a 1000 mailman lists on our cPanel servers and our list clients are
> very happy with the arrangement. But YMMV.
> 
> If you have not required backend access before to your mailman server then I
> would think you will not have any problems utilizing a cPanel enabled
> mailman service. I would be interested in hearing some details of your IT
> specialist's reservations of cPanel and mailman.
> 
> Brian Carpenter
> EMWD.com
> 
> Providing Cloud Services and more for over 15 years.
> 
> T: 336.755.0685
> E: br...@emwd.com
> www.emwd.com
> 

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting service.

[Brian Carpenter]

> -Original Message-
> From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-
> bounces+brian=emwd@python.org] On Behalf Of Joe
> Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 1:29 PM
> To: mailman-users@python.org Users
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting service.
> 
> Hello, everyone.
> 
> In my attempt to find a Mailman hosting service I have received a message
> from one IT specialist advising me to avoid hosting services that utilize
a
> cPanel. According to this specialist this is a bad arrangement and one
that
> doesn't provide me full control of my lists. Since I am not an IT
specialist I
> don't know what a cPanel is or how this can be a problem. Can any of you
> enlighten me ? What is a cPanel, why can this be a problem and how would
it
> not allow me full control of my lists ?
> 
> In addition, what problems should I expect to encounter in hosting my
lists
> with an outside Mailman hosting service ?
> 
> Thank you in advance,
> 
> Joe.
> --
> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
> Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-
> users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-
> users/brian%40emwd.com

Hi Joe:

I think we discussed your mailman needs a couple of times over the phone.

cPanel is a webhosting control panel that is very popular (for good reason)
among web hosting companies and it includes the use of mailman.

cPanel is typically used within a shared hosting environment and I believe
it has done a lot in getting mailman into the hands of many list users.
Because of the nature of a shared hosting environment, typical mailman users
would not have access to the mailman server itself in order to make any
customizations such as searchable archives, etc. However my company hosts
over a 1000 mailman lists on our cPanel servers and our list clients are
very happy with the arrangement. But YMMV.

If you have not required backend access before to your mailman server then I
would think you will not have any problems utilizing a cPanel enabled
mailman service. I would be interested in hearing some details of your IT
specialist's reservations of cPanel and mailman.

Brian Carpenter
EMWD.com

Providing Cloud Services and more for over 15 years.

T: 336.755.0685
E: br...@emwd.com
www.emwd.com

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting service.

[Andrew Hodgson]

Joe wrote:

>In my attempt to find a Mailman hosting service I have received a message from 
>one IT specialist advising me to avoid hosting services that utilize a cPanel. 
>According to this specialist this is a bad arrangement and one that >doesn't 
>provide me full control of my lists. Since I am not an IT specialist I don't 
>know what a cPanel is or how this can be a problem. Can any of you enlighten 
>me ? What is a cPanel, why can this be a problem and how would it >not allow 
>me full control of my lists ?

I run Mailman lists for several charities running my own Mailman compiled from 
source with some modifications.  I do the work on the backend and if there are 
problems, I get support from myself or the list if I am stuck.  I manage other 
Linux systems and so it isn't a problem for me.  I don't want to pay the 
license to run CPanel on the servers, and that is the choice I made.

The CPanel system is a web based control panel which allows you to host amongst 
other things, a fully working Mailman setup.  Whilst the CPanel implementation 
is not standard as per the stock Mailman setup, it is arguably one of the most 
widely used versions of Mailman, and without it, I think Mailman would be far 
less used today.

I feel there is nothing wrong with the CPanel installation for most users, who 
want to create, manage and remove lists from their hosting domains.  Where the 
issue comes is with support, as only a CPanel specialist or CPanel themselves 
can really support the installation, as the Mailman community don't know fully 
what has been done to the installation to make it work with the CPanel 
environment.  It could also be possible for someone who is used to a stock 
Mailman installation to break the integration if they just go ahead and change 
stuff without forethought to the CPanel integration.  I myself am subscribed to 
several very high traffic lists who run Mailman under CPanel, and they have no 
issues at all that I know of.

My advice would be to look at the providers you have available, if some are 
using CPanel and you feel comfortable with the support they are offering, and 
the service fits your requirements, then don't let the fact they are using 
CPanel put you off.  It sounds like you would probably call out to someone else 
to support the system if it goes wrong anyhow.  If you have more bespoke 
requirements, and the CPanel integration wouldn't meet these (after talking to 
people on this list or companies who use CPanel), then go with a more tailored 
solution.

Thanks.
Andrew.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting service.

[George Kasica]

Joe:

I am an IT Specialist (29 years) and new to Mailman as you can see by my
posts here lately,

I run many things under cPanel via a large hosting provider but chose to run
Mailman here on my 2 local Linux Servers (Ubuntu) - I'm not sure why he
feels so strongly, if the provider had a good support structure and prices
(I'm paying $15/month for unlimited space/bandwidth - email me privately for
the provider) plus I run my own 2 local servers here with mailman on them
for several charitable/non-profit groups.

As to an IT Specialist needing to hit the lottery for his own dedicated
server - um...they don't cost that much to build both of these here are
probably about $1K each or less with RAID Disks, redundant power supplies
etc.

Heck, if you just need to host a few lists give me a yell and we can talk.

George

-Original Message-
From: Mailman-Users
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+gkasica=netwrx1@python.org] On Behalf Of
Joe
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 12:51 PM
To: Brian Carpenter
Cc: 'mailman-users@python.org Users'
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting service.

Hi, Brian.

Thanks for your reply. I will be calling you soon.

I will not disclose the name or e-mail of the IT specialist but his private
message to me expressed his concern over the use of cPanel as a tool for the
management of Mailman.

Here is an excerpt from the e-mail I received:


Joe, unless you have COMPLETE "List Control", DON'T do it ! ! !

If you think you HATE the "baby sitting" of current set-up, you don't
know/fully understand the full meaning of HATE ! ! ! 

For over a decade I have prayed to "Hit the Lottery" as very FIRST thing I
would do is pay for Dedicated Server so I could have FULL control without
the "Baby Sitting" of cPanel ! ! !


Since I am not an IT specialist I have to ask myself, why would he feel so
strongly about this ? What problems should I expect to encounter ?

Thank you,

Joseph.



On February 18, 2014, at 10:36 AM, Brian Carpenter  wrote:

>> -Original Message-
>> From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-
>> bounces+brian=emwd@python.org] On Behalf Of Joe
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 1:29 PM
>> To: mailman-users@python.org Users
>> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting service.
>> 
>> Hello, everyone.
>> 
>> In my attempt to find a Mailman hosting service I have received a 
>> message from one IT specialist advising me to avoid hosting services 
>> that utilize
> a
>> cPanel. According to this specialist this is a bad arrangement and 
>> one
> that
>> doesn't provide me full control of my lists. Since I am not an IT
> specialist I
>> don't know what a cPanel is or how this can be a problem. Can any of 
>> you enlighten me ? What is a cPanel, why can this be a problem and 
>> how would
> it
>> not allow me full control of my lists ?
>> 
>> In addition, what problems should I expect to encounter in hosting my
> lists
>> with an outside Mailman hosting service ?
>> 
>> Thank you in advance,
>> 
>> Joe.
>> --
>> Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org 
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: 
>> http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-
>> users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-
>> users/brian%40emwd.com
> 
> Hi Joe:
> 
> I think we discussed your mailman needs a couple of times over the phone.
> 
> cPanel is a webhosting control panel that is very popular (for good 
> reason) among web hosting companies and it includes the use of mailman.
> 
> cPanel is typically used within a shared hosting environment and I 
> believe it has done a lot in getting mailman into the hands of many list
users.
> Because of the nature of a shared hosting environment, typical mailman 
> users would not have access to the mailman server itself in order to 
> make any customizations such as searchable archives, etc. However my 
> company hosts over a 1000 mailman lists on our cPanel servers and our 
> list clients are very happy with the arrangement. But YMMV.
> 
> If you have not required backend access before to your mailman server 
> then I would think you will not have any problems utilizing a cPanel 
> enabled mailman service. I would be interested in hearing some details 
> of your IT specialist's reservations of cPanel and mailman.
> 
> Brian Carpenter
> EMWD.com
> 
> Providing Cloud Services and more for over 15 years.
> 
> T:

Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting service.

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Joe writes:

 > Since I am not an IT specialist I have to ask myself, why would he
 > feel so strongly about this ?

Just because.  What more reason does anyone need?

I personally strongly disliked cPanel for a long time because they and
their customers (the host services, not the users) dumped some of
their support on us.  Inadvertantly, I'm sure, but I don't cut vendors
who don't publish derivative source much slack.  (Just a disclaimer
of personal bias, you needn't sympathize with me.  Anyway, more
recently they have been trying to work out how to be better citizens
in the Mailman community. :-)

 > What problems should I expect to encounter ?

Something that you need to think about, at least long enough to read
the whole point:

1.  Mailman sometimes gets wedged (at least, it has done so in the
past, I'm not promising it will ever happen again, much less
happen to you :-).  When it does, often somebody needs to access
the message queues directly, which you can't do without shell
access (and probably shouldn't be able to do on a shared
installation because you could trash somebody else's mail).  This
could indeed happen to you.  Suppose it does -- I'll bet Brian's
company will get it resolved withing hours in 99% of the rare
cases when it does happen.  (Ask him for actual details, I have no
relation to or even real knowledge of his company -- I just like
him because he's friendly and occasionally answers question here
even if they don't seem like a way to attract a customer. :-)

Would something that happens on the average once in ten years to a
given list, that takes 24 hours or less to resolve, put your
organization out of business?  If yes, cPanel is out, otherwise,
why not?

I suspect your IT specialist buddy is a bit OCD about these things,
and a one-hour delay would be enough to get him spelling in all caps. ;-)

As a non-specialist, the following probably do *not* apply to you, but
for completeness:

2.  In high-volume situations, many admins prefer to use withlist, a
command line script, for mass moderation.  No shell access, no can
do.  This also can happen to you, if your list attracts specific
attention from a bad guy.

3.  If you have many lists, and need to make a configuration change
to each of those lists, again withlist is your friend.

4.  Certain customizations to the website require changing Mailman
code because the page in question is fully-software generated (no
template at all).

5.  Custom Handlers can be added to the post processing pipeline, but
only if you have access to the code.  I have two special-purpose
Handlers that I use for my own lists, and a third, used to
integrate SpamAssassin with Mailman, is quite popular.  (This is
not the preferred way to use SpamAssassin, but it works for a lot
of Mailman site admins.)

There may be others I can't recall offhand, but they're similar.  I
think you can see that these are probably not major concerns for you.
For most non-technical users cPanel is a good way to go.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting service.

[Farokh Irani]

 full meaning of HATE ! ! !

For over a decade I have prayed to "Hit the Lottery" as very FIRST 
thing I would do is pay
for Dedicated Server so I could have FULL control without the "Baby 
Sitting" of cPanel ! ! !



Since I am not an IT specialist I have to ask myself, why would he 
feel so strongly about this ? What problems should I expect to encounter ?


Thank you,

Joseph.




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Brian Carpenter <mailto:br...@emwd.com>
February 18, 2014 13:36

-Original Message-
From: Mailman-Users [mailto:mailman-users-
bounces+brian=emwd@python.org] On Behalf Of Joe
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 1:29 PM
To: mailman-users@python.org Users
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting service.

Hello, everyone.

In my attempt to find a Mailman hosting service I have received a message
from one IT specialist advising me to avoid hosting services that utilize

a

cPanel. According to this specialist this is a bad arrangement and one

that

doesn't provide me full control of my lists. Since I am not an IT

specialist I

don't know what a cPanel is or how this can be a problem. Can any of you
enlighten me ? What is a cPanel, why can this be a problem and how would

it

not allow me full control of my lists ?

In addition, what problems should I expect to encounter in hosting my

lists

with an outside Mailman hosting service ?

Thank you in advance,

Joe.
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users%40python.org/
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users/brian%40emwd.com


Hi Joe:

I think we discussed your mailman needs a couple of times over the phone.

cPanel is a webhosting control panel that is very popular (for good reason)
among web hosting companies and it includes the use of mailman.

cPanel is typically used within a shared hosting environment and I believe
it has done a lot in getting mailman into the hands of many list users.
Because of the nature of a shared hosting environment, typical mailman users
would not have access to the mailman server itself in order to make any
customizations such as searchable archives, etc. However my company hosts
over a 1000 mailman lists on our cPanel servers and our list clients are
very happy with the arrangement. But YMMV.

If you have not required backend access before to your mailman server then I
would think you will not have any problems utilizing a cPanel enabled
mailman service. I would be interested in hearing some details of your IT
specialist's reservations of cPanel and mailman.

Brian Carpenter
EMWD.com

Providing Cloud Services and more for over 15 years.

T: 336.755.0685
E: br...@emwd.com
www.emwd.com

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Joe <mailto:joemailgro...@gmail.com>
February 18, 2014 13:28
Hello, everyone.

In my attempt to find a Mailman hosting service I have received a 
message from one IT specialist advising me to avoid hosting services 
that utilize a cPanel. According to this specialist this is a bad 
arrangement and one that doesn't provide me full control of my lists. 
Since I am not an IT specialist I don't know what a cPanel is or how 
this can be a problem. Can any of you enlighten me ? What is a cPanel, 
why can this be a problem and how would it not allow me full control 
of my lists ?


In addition, what problems should I expect to encounter in hosting my 
lists with an outside Mailman hosting service ?


Thank you in advance,

Joe.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman hosting service.

[Hank van Cleef]

The esteemed Joe has said:
> 
> Hello, everyone.
> 
> In my attempt to find a Mailman hosting service I have received a message 
> from one IT specialist advising me to avoid hosting services that utilize a 
> cPanel. According to this specialist this is a bad arrangement and one that 
> doesn't provide me full control of my lists. Since I am not an IT specialist 
> I don't know what a cPanel is or how this can be a problem. Can any of you 
> enlighten me ? What is a cPanel, why can this be a problem and how would it 
> not allow me full control of my lists ?
> 
> In addition, what problems should I expect to encounter in hosting my lists 
> with an outside Mailman hosting service ?
> 
Joe, I'm going to comment on meeting your needs from my own direct
experience.  Just by way of introduction, let me say that I don't
consider myself an "IT specialist," though there are times when I've
had to do until a real one comes along.  

Instead, I'm a hardware engineer who first worked with digital systems
in the 1950's, and learned software on the side.  You've heard of the
DEC PDP-1. I worked on that team.  Fast forward 43 years until I
retired at 67 in 2001.  Most of that time, I worked on teams who
didn't go to school to "learn that stuff," because we were too busy
inventing it.  (Later some of those schools hired us to teach what
we'd invented).  

A couple of years after I retired (and moved into a small Rocky Mt.
ranch community), the local dialup service developed wireless radio
link services, and when they learned that I was a potential customer
and had Sun servers with Solaris available (and the skills to use
them), I was part of their development.  My setup here is as "my own
ISP" using them as my upstream feed.  About a year after we got that
up and running, a mail list I was on fell apart because of
sociological conflict.  I agreed to set up Mailman needed resources
to host his domain name, and received the needed data from the last
host site, which was also Mailman.   I downloaded the Mailman and
Python sources, built them, and installed Mailman using the existing
Solaris sendmail and apache builds in the Solaris distribution.  
Some of the Mailman web pages got customized for sociological reasons,
which meant that I had to maintain a non-standard configuration.

Our assumption at the time was that the list would operate for 3-5
years and sail off into the sunset.  That's not what happened.  We
solved the sociological problems, and at eight years, the list was 
more active than ever.  It was time to for me to get out of the hosting
"sideline," and find a commercial provider.  Before starting that
search, I did a stock build of Mailman, uncustomized, and moved my
lists to that, to see if there was any more need for the
customization.  There was none, and we found a commercial service that
was running stock Mailman with the HtDig search engine, which we
needed.  Sent them a dump of the subscriber base, the configuration
files we were using, and many gigabytes of mbox files, and they've run
the list for a good three years now.  I'll identify them in private
e-mail if you wish.

What was my actual "need" for full access to the installation?  So far
as Mailman itself was concerned, "virtually none" was the answer.  It
was convenient to be able to read the log files, but that generally
was to monitor activity involving Sendmail and its control files.  

I don't know about cPanel itself.  But I think you want to consider
what your objectives are.  I think you are saying you want to set up a
mail list, but don't want to try to turn into a systems administration
wizard in the process.  My experience is this: you don't need to,
if you're hosted on a good system with competent sysadmins.  

Hank
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[Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman. Hope you can help?

[Greg Hays]

I use the mailman list quite extensively but need to extract the email
addresses to invite to another list.  How do you download a text format of
all the members.  I have over 8000 of them to much to copy and paste.

PLEASE HELP!!!

Greg Hays
President/CEO
Webforce Design
webforcedesign.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(630)660-5665



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[Mailman-Users] question about mailman issues i am experiencing

[inksanity]

Dear Mailman,

I use your program ver 2.1.11 cp3

The abridged version of my issue is this:

I have a subscriber list of over 2,000 people.  When I send emails thru the 
mailman program, I'm never certain how many of those emails are actually 
successfully received by my list members, and how many simply never get there 
(due to spam filters & server restrictions).

I believe my issue is due to sending out so many emails at one time (the full 
2000).  Is there ANY WAY to send emails out to a specific group of members on 
my list?  For example, mailman alphabetizes list members by name.  Is it not 
possible for me to send email to members A-C  then wait a few hours and send 
D-F  then wait a few hrs more and send to members G-I etc?

Thank you so much for your assistance.

Steve
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman. Hope you can help?

[Erick Mechler]

:: I use the mailman list quite extensively but need to extract the email
:: addresses to invite to another list.  How do you download a text format of
:: all the members.  I have over 8000 of them to much to copy and paste.

See the ~mailman/bin/list_members script.

Cheers - Erick

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Re: [Mailman-Users] question about mailman issues i am experiencing

[Mark Sapiro]

inksan...@inksanitytattoo.com wrote:
>
>I use your program ver 2.1.11 cp3


Actually, that's not ours, it's cPanel's. See the FAQ at
 for a bit on the difference.


>The abridged version of my issue is this:
>
>I have a subscriber list of over 2,000 people.  When I send emails thru the 
>mailman program, I'm never certain how many of those emails are actually 
>successfully received by my list members, and how many simply never get there 
>(due to spam filters & server restrictions).


The FAQ at  has some suggestions about
this.


>I believe my issue is due to sending out so many emails at one time (the full 
>2000).  Is there ANY WAY to send emails out to a specific group of members on 
>my list?  For example, mailman alphabetizes list members by name.  Is it not 
>possible for me to send email to members A-C  then wait a few hours and send 
>D-F  then wait a few hrs more and send to members G-I etc?


You could break your list into a number of separate sub-lists and post
to those one at a time. Mailman doesn't have a way to limit it's
sending rate. See the FAQ at .

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] question about mailman issues i am experiencing

[Michael Scheidell]

One option would be to use your mta to rate limit it per destination domain.  
Then your mta can queue them up a few at a time.  Other things you can do 
include make sure dns entries for your server are inplace  and match.  Spf 
records won't hurt.  Also you might get the mta to do skim signing.  Check 
reputation databases for your urls and up address.

-Original Message-
From: inksan...@inksanitytattoo.com 
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 4:15 PM
To: mailman-users@python.org 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about mailman issues i am experiencing

Dear Mailman,

I use your program ver 2.1.11 cp3

The abridged version of my issue is this:

I have a subscriber list of over 2,000 people.  When I send emails thru the 
mailman program, I'm never certain how many of those emails are actually 
successfully received by my list members, and how many simply never get there 
(due to spam filters & server restrictions).

I believe my issue is due to sending out so many emails at one time (the full 
2000).  Is there ANY WAY to send emails out to a specific group of members on 
my list?  For example, mailman alphabetizes list members by name.  Is it not 
possible for me to send email to members A-C  then wait a few hours and send 
D-F  then wait a few hrs more and send to members G-I etc?

Thank you so much for your assistance.

Steve
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS Xserverset-up.

[Mark Sapiro]

JRC Groups wrote:
>
>The problem that keeps throwing me off is the problem we discussed here
>before. The list info page keeps reverting back to the name of the server
>instead of the name of the domain. I have, as you suggested, edited the
>mailman configuration file several times and every time I do it the info
>page changes to displaying the domain name associated with the list on the
>page. But as soon as I do anything in OS X Server's System Administration
>tool it reverts back to the server's name.


This is some Apple thing. I can't help you with it, but perhaps someone
else on this list can.


>I've been told it could be related to way I have OS X Server set-up. Based
>on a discussion I have had with another Apple Consultant I have even
>considered downloading Mailman and doing a fresh install to use this version
>instead of the one that Apple bundles with OS X. However I am afraid that
>(1) this could cause some type of conflict and (2) if the problem is related
>to some of my settings in OS X Server it may not work just as the bundled
>version doesn't.


I can't answer number 2 one way or the other, but for number 1, see the
FAQ at .

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS Xserverset-up.

[Mark Sapiro]

JRC Groups wrote:
>
>Considering Brad isn't available at this time, would you know of anyone you
>could recommend who is experienced with OS X Server to help me with my
>problem ?


I'm sorry, I don't know anyone to recommend.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS Xserverset-up.

[Ch Abarguia]

Try someone from http://www.afp548.com/

On 07 Apr 2011, at 04:28, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> JRC Groups wrote:
>> 
>> Considering Brad isn't available at this time, would you know of anyone you
>> could recommend who is experienced with OS X Server to help me with my
>> problem ?
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, I don't know anyone to recommend.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> --
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> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS Xserverset-up.

[Ch Abarguia]

Have you contacted http://osx.topicdesk.com/content/section/4/41/ ?
The have tools and good reputation for mac os x server support services

Consultancy : http://osx.topicdesk.com/content/view/12/36/


On 07 Apr 2011, at 04:28, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> JRC Groups wrote:
>> 
>> Considering Brad isn't available at this time, would you know of anyone you
>> could recommend who is experienced with OS X Server to help me with my
>> problem ?
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, I don't know anyone to recommend.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> --
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> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
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[Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS X server set-up.

[JRC Groups]

Hi Mark (Sapiro) and other members,


While discussing some possible DNS set-up issues I might need to resolve on
my server a certain IT professional mentioned to me that Mailman shouldn't
be run using a virtual domain. I am not sure if this professional was
referring to virtual domains in general or only those running on Mac OS X
Server.

Do you know if this is true ? Do you see any problems with Mailman running
from a Virtual domain ? Let me make this a little clearer. I have a Mac
server on a single IP address and host several domains. The primary domain
name (the one returned when you do a search on my IP address) is domain1.com
and the Mailman list is being run on domain2.com (one of several virtual
domains hosted on the same server).

Any Mac specialists on the list that know the answer to this question ?

Thank you in advance,


Joe


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS X serverset-up.

[Mark Sapiro]

JRC Groups wrote:
>
>While discussing some possible DNS set-up issues I might need to resolve on
>my server a certain IT professional mentioned to me that Mailman shouldn't
>be run using a virtual domain. I am not sure if this professional was
>referring to virtual domains in general or only those running on Mac OS X
>Server.


Just a quick addendum to Brad's response. From the point of view of the
mail server rather than Mailman, There should be full circle DNS.
I.e., an rDNS lookup of the server's IP address should give a
host/domain name and a lookup of that name should return an A record
(not a CNAME) with the same IP. Also, when sending mail, the server
should identify itself in HELO with the same name.

These things should be true for any mail server regardless of Mailman.

Now if a mailman list is in a virtual domain, the envelope sender of
messages from that list will be the virtual domain. This is fine, but
if the virtual domain publishes an SPF record, it needs to specify the
server's name as a permitted sender.

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS X serverset-up.

[JRC Groups]

Thank you Mark and Brad for your replies.

>From what I can tell rDNS seems to be working properly. I've created some
lists and they also seem to be working well. I used some test e-mails
(e-mail accounts I have) and received welcome e-mail from the lists after
subscribing.

The problem that keeps throwing me off is the problem we discussed here
before. The list info page keeps reverting back to the name of the server
instead of the name of the domain. I have, as you suggested, edited the
mailman configuration file several times and every time I do it the info
page changes to displaying the domain name associated with the list on the
page. But as soon as I do anything in OS X Server's System Administration
tool it reverts back to the server's name.

I've been told it could be related to way I have OS X Server set-up. Based
on a discussion I have had with another Apple Consultant I have even
considered downloading Mailman and doing a fresh install to use this version
instead of the one that Apple bundles with OS X. However I am afraid that
(1) this could cause some type of conflict and (2) if the problem is related
to some of my settings in OS X Server it may not work just as the bundled
version doesn't.

Is there anyone on the list who is familiar with both OS X Server and
Mailman to help with this problem ? I am willing to pay a consultation fee
to someone who can connect to my server remotely and help solve this issue.

Thank you in advance,

Joe




On 3/28/11 1:27 PM, "Mark Sapiro"  wrote:

> JRC Groups wrote:
>> 
>> While discussing some possible DNS set-up issues I might need to resolve on
>> my server a certain IT professional mentioned to me that Mailman shouldn't
>> be run using a virtual domain. I am not sure if this professional was
>> referring to virtual domains in general or only those running on Mac OS X
>> Server.
> 
> 
> Just a quick addendum to Brad's response. From the point of view of the
> mail server rather than Mailman, There should be full circle DNS.
> I.e., an rDNS lookup of the server's IP address should give a
> host/domain name and a lookup of that name should return an A record
> (not a CNAME) with the same IP. Also, when sending mail, the server
> should identify itself in HELO with the same name.
> 
> These things should be true for any mail server regardless of Mailman.
> 
> Now if a mailman list is in a virtual domain, the envelope sender of
> messages from that list will be the virtual domain. This is fine, but
> if the virtual domain publishes an SPF record, it needs to specify the
> server's name as a permitted sender.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS X serverset-up.

[Brad Knowles]

On Mar 30, 2011, at 6:15 PM, JRC Groups wrote:

> Is there anyone on the list who is familiar with both OS X Server and
> Mailman to help with this problem ? I am willing to pay a consultation fee
> to someone who can connect to my server remotely and help solve this issue.

I've been an Apple consultant, at least part-time.  I came within a hairs 
breadth of doing that job full-time for a local Apple VAR.  I've got all the 
PDF versions of all the official Apple documentation on Mac OS X and Mac OS X 
Server, as well as PDF versions of the good 3rd party books on the subject.  
And I've been a professional Unix system administrator and consultant for over 
twenty years.

The guy who used to run lists.apple.com was involved in the development and 
support of Mailman long before I came along, and has more experience in the 
business than I do.

I don't mean to sound pessimistic or to rain on your parade, but in both cases, 
the solution was to blow away the stuff that Apple ships, and to install the 
"real deal" code as downloaded from list.org.


The Mailman project is freely available open source (under a GNU license, no 
less), and the support we provide is best effort.  There is no commercial 
version of Mailman that we sell or officially support.  Anyone else that 
includes Mailman as part of a commercial product or service that they sell, 
should include with that a full after-sales support staff.


Note that there isn't going to be a separate "Server" edition of Mac OS X 
"Lion".

No one seems to know if this means that all the stuff that the "Server" edition 
used to include will now be available to everyone, and that all the people who 
developed the "Server" edition of Mac OS X have been transitioned over to the 
mainline code development team, or if that means that a lot of products and 
services will get thrown out the door as Apple re-focuses exclusively on the 
retail/home user market.

But that is certainly something that you should keep in mind as you look 
towards solutions in this space.

--
Brad Knowles 
LinkedIn Profile: 

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS X serverset-up.

[Larry Stone]

On 3/30/11 7:36 PM, Brad Knowles at b...@shub-internet.org wrote:

> I don't mean to sound pessimistic or to rain on your parade, but in both
> cases, the solution was to blow away the stuff that Apple ships, and to
> install the "real deal" code as downloaded from list.org.

I'll add that there are a number of here who run Mailman on OS X "Client".
Searching the archives, you will find full step-by-step directions for
installing it. Blowing away the Apple provided Mailman (or just ignoring it)
and installing a clean unmodified version from source will give you, on OS X
Server, the same as those of on "Client" have.

-- 
Larry Stone
lston...@stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS X serverset-up.

[JRC Groups]

Thanks Brad and Mark for your helpful and detailed replies.

I have reached a point where I have the lists almost working but there are
some issues still preventing the systems from functioning in a way that
allows me to confident to launch these lists I wish to create.

Apple's support has been MIA at best so I have given up and decided to seek
other alternatives. Also, the numerous individuals I have spoken with at
Apple were clearly (1) not interested in making any improvements or fixing
the current issues with the version of Mailman that ships with OS X Server
and (2) didn't know any more about it than I do (which is quite embarrassing
considering they are part of the company's business support department).

I can't imagine that there is anything other than some minor set-up issues
that need to be corrected with my system. After all, I am sending and
receiving e-mails and the lists are functional (to an extent anyway) as they
send and receive messages. However, as I stated above, I don't want to
launch the lists only to attract subscribers and then find out in a short
while that Mailman has stopped working because something with my system
wasn't set-up properly.

I also can't imagine that it would be too difficult to install a new version
of Mailman and manage it using its browser-based interface while ignoring
Apple's System Administrator tool for this specific task.

Brad, since you have this much experience with OS X Server would you be
interested in helping me with my problem ? In case you are, please contact
me off-list so that we can discuss it. I believe you should be able to
connect remotely, right ? In case you are not interested, would you
recommend me someone who is knowledgeable on both OS X Server and Mailman ?
I have contacted numerous Apple consultants but couldn't find a single one
who had any experience with Mailman.

Thanks again for your helpful replies.

Best regards,

Joe

---

On 3/30/11 5:36 PM, "Brad Knowles"  wrote:

> On Mar 30, 2011, at 6:15 PM, JRC Groups wrote:
> 
>> Is there anyone on the list who is familiar with both OS X Server and
>> Mailman to help with this problem ? I am willing to pay a consultation fee
>> to someone who can connect to my server remotely and help solve this issue.
> 
> I've been an Apple consultant, at least part-time.  I came within a hairs
> breadth of doing that job full-time for a local Apple VAR.  I've got all the
> PDF versions of all the official Apple documentation on Mac OS X and Mac OS X
> Server, as well as PDF versions of the good 3rd party books on the subject.
> And I've been a professional Unix system administrator and consultant for over
> twenty years.
> 
> The guy who used to run lists.apple.com was involved in the development and
> support of Mailman long before I came along, and has more experience in the
> business than I do.
> 
> I don't mean to sound pessimistic or to rain on your parade, but in both
> cases, the solution was to blow away the stuff that Apple ships, and to
> install the "real deal" code as downloaded from list.org.
> 
> 
> The Mailman project is freely available open source (under a GNU license, no
> less), and the support we provide is best effort.  There is no commercial
> version of Mailman that we sell or officially support.  Anyone else that
> includes Mailman as part of a commercial product or service that they sell,
> should include with that a full after-sales support staff.
> 
> 
> Note that there isn't going to be a separate "Server" edition of Mac OS X
> "Lion".
> 
> No one seems to know if this means that all the stuff that the "Server"
> edition used to include will now be available to everyone, and that all the
> people who developed the "Server" edition of Mac OS X have been transitioned
> over to the mainline code development team, or if that means that a lot of
> products and services will get thrown out the door as Apple re-focuses
> exclusively on the retail/home user market.
> 
> But that is certainly something that you should keep in mind as you look
> towards solutions in this space.
> 
> --
> Brad Knowles 
> LinkedIn Profile: 
> 


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS X serverset-up.

[Larry Stone]

On 4/3/11 1:42 AM, JRC Groups at joemailgro...@gmail.com wrote:


> I also can't imagine that it would be too difficult to install a new version
> of Mailman and manage it using its browser-based interface while ignoring
> Apple's System Administrator tool for this specific task.

It should not be difficult. I'll repeat what I posted Wednesday:

"I'll add that there are a number of here who run Mailman on OS X "Client".
Searching the archives, you will find full step-by-step directions for
installing it. Blowing away the Apple provided Mailman (or just ignoring it)
and installing a clean unmodified version from source will give you, on OS X
Server, the same as those of on "Client" have."

Going through the process yourself will teach you far more than having
someone do it for you.

-- 
Larry Stone
lston...@stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS X serverset-up.

[Brad Knowles]

Sorry, my wife's computer has been down for days, and in the meanwhile she as 
taken over mine. At this point, all I've got is an iPad and a semi-wonky server 
in the closet, and neither of them is well suited for keeping up with lots of 
email. I'll fix that when I get her computer repaired and back into her hands 
so that I can get my computer back, but until then I'm going to be even more of 
an absentee admin for this list than normal.

I may actually be getting a job soon doing Enterprise Mac OS X consulting, and 
if I do then I will let you folks know. If that happens, then I could 
potentially be available to do remote consulting for this kind of stuff through 
my employer.

-- 
Brad Knowles
Sent from my iPad

On Apr 3, 2011, at 1:42 AM, JRC Groups  wrote:

> Thanks Brad and Mark for your helpful and detailed replies.
> 
> I have reached a point where I have the lists almost working but there are
> some issues still preventing the systems from functioning in a way that
> allows me to confident to launch these lists I wish to create.
> 
> Apple's support has been MIA at best so I have given up and decided to seek
> other alternatives. Also, the numerous individuals I have spoken with at
> Apple were clearly (1) not interested in making any improvements or fixing
> the current issues with the version of Mailman that ships with OS X Server
> and (2) didn't know any more about it than I do (which is quite embarrassing
> considering they are part of the company's business support department).
> 
> I can't imagine that there is anything other than some minor set-up issues
> that need to be corrected with my system. After all, I am sending and
> receiving e-mails and the lists are functional (to an extent anyway) as they
> send and receive messages. However, as I stated above, I don't want to
> launch the lists only to attract subscribers and then find out in a short
> while that Mailman has stopped working because something with my system
> wasn't set-up properly.
> 
> I also can't imagine that it would be too difficult to install a new version
> of Mailman and manage it using its browser-based interface while ignoring
> Apple's System Administrator tool for this specific task.
> 
> Brad, since you have this much experience with OS X Server would you be
> interested in helping me with my problem ? In case you are, please contact
> me off-list so that we can discuss it. I believe you should be able to
> connect remotely, right ? In case you are not interested, would you
> recommend me someone who is knowledgeable on both OS X Server and Mailman ?
> I have contacted numerous Apple consultants but couldn't find a single one
> who had any experience with Mailman.
> 
> Thanks again for your helpful replies.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Joe
> 
> ---
> 
> On 3/30/11 5:36 PM, "Brad Knowles"  wrote:
> 
>> On Mar 30, 2011, at 6:15 PM, JRC Groups wrote:
>> 
>>> Is there anyone on the list who is familiar with both OS X Server and
>>> Mailman to help with this problem ? I am willing to pay a consultation fee
>>> to someone who can connect to my server remotely and help solve this issue.
>> 
>> I've been an Apple consultant, at least part-time.  I came within a hairs
>> breadth of doing that job full-time for a local Apple VAR.  I've got all the
>> PDF versions of all the official Apple documentation on Mac OS X and Mac OS X
>> Server, as well as PDF versions of the good 3rd party books on the subject.
>> And I've been a professional Unix system administrator and consultant for 
>> over
>> twenty years.
>> 
>> The guy who used to run lists.apple.com was involved in the development and
>> support of Mailman long before I came along, and has more experience in the
>> business than I do.
>> 
>> I don't mean to sound pessimistic or to rain on your parade, but in both
>> cases, the solution was to blow away the stuff that Apple ships, and to
>> install the "real deal" code as downloaded from list.org.
>> 
>> 
>> The Mailman project is freely available open source (under a GNU license, no
>> less), and the support we provide is best effort.  There is no commercial
>> version of Mailman that we sell or officially support.  Anyone else that
>> includes Mailman as part of a commercial product or service that they sell,
>> should include with that a full after-sales support staff.
>> 
>> 
>> Note that there isn't going to be a separate "Server" edition of Mac OS X
>> "Lion".
>> 
>> No one seems to know if this means that all the stuff that the "Server"
>> edition used to include will now be available to everyone, and that all the
>> people who developed the "Server" edition of Mac OS X have been transitioned
>> over to the mainline code development team, or if that means that a lot of
>> products and services will get thrown out the door as Apple re-focuses
>> exclusively on the retail/home user market.
>> 
>> But that is certainly something that you should keep in mind as you look
>> towards solutions in this space.
>> 

Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS X serverset-up.

[JRC Groups]

Mark,


Thank you for your helpful reply.

Considering Brad isn't available at this time, would you know of anyone you
could recommend who is experienced with OS X Server to help me with my
problem ?

All I need is for someone who is experienced with OS Server and understands
its System Administrator tool to log in on my server remotely and review my
settings to make sure I haven't done anything wrong and possibly make a few
corrections if they happen to be necessary. It goes without saying that I
will be happy to pay for the consultation fee.

After I am sure that everything is set-up properly on the server I will then
continue with Mailman and decide whether I should just use the one bundled
with OS X Server or if I should download it and do new install.

Thank you,


Joe

--


On 3/28/11 1:27 PM, "Mark Sapiro"  wrote:

> JRC Groups wrote:
>> 
>> While discussing some possible DNS set-up issues I might need to resolve on
>> my server a certain IT professional mentioned to me that Mailman shouldn't
>> be run using a virtual domain. I am not sure if this professional was
>> referring to virtual domains in general or only those running on Mac OS X
>> Server.
> 
> 
> Just a quick addendum to Brad's response. From the point of view of the
> mail server rather than Mailman, There should be full circle DNS.
> I.e., an rDNS lookup of the server's IP address should give a
> host/domain name and a lookup of that name should return an A record
> (not a CNAME) with the same IP. Also, when sending mail, the server
> should identify itself in HELO with the same name.
> 
> These things should be true for any mail server regardless of Mailman.
> 
> Now if a mailman list is in a virtual domain, the envelope sender of
> messages from that list will be the virtual domain. This is fine, but
> if the virtual domain publishes an SPF record, it needs to specify the
> server's name as a permitted sender.


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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman domain and OS X server set-up.

[Brad Knowles]

On Mar 28, 2011, at 1:31 AM, JRC Groups wrote:

> While discussing some possible DNS set-up issues I might need to resolve on
> my server a certain IT professional mentioned to me that Mailman shouldn't
> be run using a virtual domain. I am not sure if this professional was
> referring to virtual domains in general or only those running on Mac OS X
> Server.

In general, there are absolutely no problems running Mailman on a machine that 
hosts multiple virtual domains.  The machines at python.org do this today.  
While the official purpose of the machines is to serve the python.org domain 
and the mailing lists for this domain, there are lists for multiple other 
virtual domains that are also hosted there, and a single Mailman instance 
manages all those mailing lists just fine.

There are some issues you need to be aware of with regards to using a single 
Mailman instance to handle mailing lists for multiple virtual domains, which 
are detailed in the FAQ wiki.  But so long as you make sure that you don't ever 
try to create a mailing list by the same name in multiple different virtual 
domains that are handled by the same Mailman instance, there shouldn't be any 
major problems.


However, the version of Mailman as shipped by Apple has some significant 
differences from the official version of Mailman as we provide for download 
from the list.org site (and mirrors).

These issues are also covered in the FAQ Wiki, but the gist is that we cannot 
definitively provide answers for how the Apple-provided version of Mailman will 
work.  Since they modified the code that is installed, if you want support for 
the Apple-provided version of Mailman, you would need to go to Apple for that.  
We can give you our best guess for how we think things should work in those 
kinds of situations, but that's about the best we can do.

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[Mailman-Users] Question about mailman--how many names on a lisit will it support

[Phyllis Orrick]

Hi there,

UC Berkeley user of major domo here. First of all, great news. Our current
system is creaky to say the least.

Question: I have a couple of lists that have about 3-5,000 names and
currently I have to break them up into two or three lists because major domo
just can't handle all of  them at once.

What's the limit for mailman?

Regards,

Phyllis Orrick

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UC Berkeley
Berkeley, CA 94720
510-643-2591
510-642-1246 (fax)
www.its.berkeley.edu



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Question about mailman--how many names on a lisit will it support

[Brad Knowles]

At 10:50 AM -0700 2005-04-21, Phyllis Orrick wrote:
 Question: I have a couple of lists that have about 3-5,000 names and
 currently I have to break them up into two or three lists because major domo
 just can't handle all of  them at once.
 What's the limit for mailman?
See 
.
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temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
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