Re: [mailop] protection.outlook.com refusing to accept mail with misleading temp error message
> Am 02.06.2021 um 06:08 schrieb Jay Hennigan via mailop : > > On 6/1/21 20:55, John Levine via mailop wrote: > >> You really REALLY do not want your mail provider to deliver every message. >> At large mail systems, typically 90% or more of the incoming mail is spam. >> Without aggressive filtering, e-mail would be unusable. > > Agreed 100%. Another thing that you really REALLY do not want is for your > mail provider to silently discard messages. Either block at IP level and > don't accept them at all, reject them, deliver them to the inbox, or deliver > them to the spam folder. > Wow, they still do that? Can be really, really problematic (in some countries) for legal reasons. > -- > Jay Hennigan - j...@west.net > Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 > 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV > ___ > mailop mailing list > mailop@mailop.org > https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] [EXTERNAL] Re: protection.outlook.com refusing to accept mail with misleading temp error message
That would shut down email as a viable communications mechanism almost immediately. Aloha, Michael. -Original Message- From: mailop On Behalf Of yuv via mailop Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2021 9:10 PM To: mailop@mailop.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [mailop] protection.outlook.com refusing to accept mail with misleading temp error message On Tue, 2021-06-01 at 23:55 -0400, John Levine via mailop wrote: > > All what recipients AND mailers want is a reliable email service, > > > You really REALLY do not want your mail provider to deliver every > message. Agree. What I do want (but probably not even Santa can give me) is to make ISPs liable for every bit that emanates from their network the same way a land owner is liable for the pollution emanating from their land, and to block out completely countries that do not enforce such stringent standard. > Spammers really do ruin everything. Slackers do too, and our governments have been giving too much slack to the industry who lobbied so successfully for a hands-off approach to encourage innovation. That industry is no longer in its infancy and self-regulation has failed. -- Yuval Levy, JD, MBA, CFA Ontario-licensed lawyer https :// moneylaw.ca Tel: 519.488.1783 (does not receive MMS) Tel: 1.844.234.5389 Fax: 1.888.900.5709 2201-323 Colborne Street London, ON N6B 3N8 ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flist.mailop.org%2Flistinfo%2Fmailopdata=04%7C01%7Cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7C1a2110dca19e4385640808d9257cb183%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C637582039768468313%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=VRk%2F%2F%2BJVPij%2B6OzZA5ayJtkQh1FtI%2BCEPu6SzvHtBpE%3Dreserved=0 ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] [EXTERNAL] Re: protection.outlook.com refusing to accept mail with misleading temp error message
That should not be happening currently in Consumer mail (Outlook, Hotmail, et al). Aloha, Michael. -Original Message- From: mailop On Behalf Of Jay Hennigan via mailop Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2021 9:04 PM To: mailop@mailop.org Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [mailop] protection.outlook.com refusing to accept mail with misleading temp error message On 6/1/21 20:55, John Levine via mailop wrote: > You really REALLY do not want your mail provider to deliver every message. > At large mail systems, typically 90% or more of the incoming mail is spam. > Without aggressive filtering, e-mail would be unusable. Agreed 100%. Another thing that you really REALLY do not want is for your mail provider to silently discard messages. Either block at IP level and don't accept them at all, reject them, deliver them to the inbox, or deliver them to the spam folder. -- Jay Hennigan - j...@west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flist.mailop.org%2Flistinfo%2Fmailopdata=04%7C01%7Cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7Cde3ae17f2ada421890ab08d9257bc3e9%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C0%7C0%7C637582035772300430%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000sdata=MKlaR%2B8X6HoZGLCBEPlIvaT0xCTYLI16BwZuSG2EUA0%3Dreserved=0 ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] protection.outlook.com refusing to accept mail with misleading temp error message
On Tue, 2021-06-01 at 23:55 -0400, John Levine via mailop wrote: > > All what recipients AND mailers want is a reliable email service, > > > You really REALLY do not want your mail provider to deliver every > message. Agree. What I do want (but probably not even Santa can give me) is to make ISPs liable for every bit that emanates from their network the same way a land owner is liable for the pollution emanating from their land, and to block out completely countries that do not enforce such stringent standard. > Spammers really do ruin everything. Slackers do too, and our governments have been giving too much slack to the industry who lobbied so successfully for a hands-off approach to encourage innovation. That industry is no longer in its infancy and self-regulation has failed. -- Yuval Levy, JD, MBA, CFA Ontario-licensed lawyer https :// moneylaw.ca Tel: 519.488.1783 (does not receive MMS) Tel: 1.844.234.5389 Fax: 1.888.900.5709 2201-323 Colborne Street London, ON N6B 3N8 ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] protection.outlook.com refusing to accept mail with misleading temp error message
On 6/1/21 20:55, John Levine via mailop wrote: You really REALLY do not want your mail provider to deliver every message. At large mail systems, typically 90% or more of the incoming mail is spam. Without aggressive filtering, e-mail would be unusable. Agreed 100%. Another thing that you really REALLY do not want is for your mail provider to silently discard messages. Either block at IP level and don't accept them at all, reject them, deliver them to the inbox, or deliver them to the spam folder. -- Jay Hennigan - j...@west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] protection.outlook.com refusing to accept mail with misleading temp error message
It appears that yuv via mailop said: >> It's not just bulk mailers who overestimate how much their recipients >> want their mail. > >All what recipients AND mailers want is a reliable email service, like >snail mail. I don't like the invoices, solicitations, and other things >that land in my snail box, but I do like the fact that if someone puts >a letter with my address in a post office box anywhere in the world, it >makes its way to my snail box within a reliable service standard. You really REALLY do not want your mail provider to deliver every message. At large mail systems, typically 90% or more of the incoming mail is spam. Without aggressive filtering, e-mail would be unusable. Spammers really do ruin everything. R's, John ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] protection.outlook.com refusing to accept mail with misleading temp error message
On Tue, 2021-06-01 at 21:22 -0400, John Levine via mailop wrote: > if the recipients of the mail don't complain when they > don't get it, it's hard for the mail system operator to feel very > motivated The recipients don't even know they have a reason to complain. The motivation *should* come from service standards, RFCs, and professionalism. Not from complaints. > It's not just bulk mailers who overestimate how much their recipients > want their mail. All what recipients AND mailers want is a reliable email service, like snail mail. I don't like the invoices, solicitations, and other things that land in my snail box, but I do like the fact that if someone puts a letter with my address in a post office box anywhere in the world, it makes its way to my snail box within a reliable service standard. The result of this attitude is that users are pushed to alternatives. iMessages, Telegram, SMS, you name it. It is still an electronic signal traveling through the wires, but the intermediary has much more power over the users than in a federated internet email system. -- Yuval Levy, JD, MBA, CFA Ontario-licensed lawyer ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] protection.outlook.com refusing to accept mail with misleading temp error message
It appears that Scott Mutter via mailop said: >-=-=-=-=-=- >-=-=-=-=-=- > >The issue - at least to me - has always been that Microsoft is viewed as >this big, huge company that can do no wrong. I don't think anyone has said that. Microsoft's mail systems have accreted over the years and are held together with chewing gum and baling wire. On the other hand, if the recipients of the mail don't complain when they don't get it, it's hard for the mail system operator to feel very motivated to do anything about it, whether Microsoft or anyone else. It's not just bulk mailers who overestimate how much their recipients want their mail. R's, John ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] protection.outlook.com refusing to accept mail with misleading temp error message
Oh man! They got the whole ASN ! Not just the A but the S and the N too! Thorough 浪 -- J. Hellenthal The fact that there's a highway to Hell but only a stairway to Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic volume. > On Jun 1, 2021, at 05:38, André Peters via mailop wrote: > > Von: "Hans-Martin Mosner via mailop" > An: mailop@mailop.org > Gesendet: 01.06.2021 12:04:54 > Betreff: Re: [mailop] protection.outlook.com refusing to accept mail with > misleading temp error message > >>> Am 28.05.21 um 15:22 schrieb Hans-Martin Mosner via mailop: >>> Am 28.05.21 um 13:47 schrieb Hans-Martin Mosner via mailop: Anyone from Microsoft/Outlook available to look into the matter? >>> Seems everything is ok now - either someone looked into the matter >>> (thanks!) or some timeout ran out :-) >> >> Same problem again, for no discernible reason. No contact from MS, no >> explanation, no abuse complaint. >> >> Given the ongoing flood of spam from bot-created hotmail accounts this is a >> bit odd... >> >> Cheers, >> Hans-Martin > This is a never ending story. :-D > > Pretty annoying. One of our ASNs was blocked for a day recently, there was no > difference in mail volume or content, it is a low-traffic ASN for little > communication. The whole ASN. Once in a while these things happen with MS. > It's normal. > > Yes, given the amount of outbound spam I don't understand how their filter or > intelligence works at all. I guess nobody knows anymore at this point. > > ___ > mailop mailing list > mailop@mailop.org > https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] protection.outlook.com refusing to accept mail with misleading temp error message
The issue - at least to me - has always been that Microsoft is viewed as this big, huge company that can do no wrong. When our users have issues sending to Microsoft email servers - it's obviously because *we're* stupid and something is wrong with *our* server. It can't possibly be a Microsoft issue. Microsoft made Windows, what did we make? That's the narrative that needs to change. If end-users would somehow start to realize that Microsoft has a horrible email system, fewer people would be inclined to use Microsoft based email accounts. That's basically what we have done. I'm sure we've probably lost some clients over it. But if you're using a Microsoft based email address for anything mission critical, then I'm sorry, you're probably missing stuff. And not just stuff from us, but from any number of other places. Missing stuff could be because of a no reason block/blacklist or just a silent deletion of the message. On Tue, Jun 1, 2021 at 3:50 PM Hans-Martin Mosner via mailop < mailop@mailop.org> wrote: > Am 01.06.21 um 21:39 schrieb John Levine via mailop: > > > > No, it's to deliver the mail that the users want. One point that bulk > > mailers often miss is that, while the recipients at large providers do > > not object to getting the bulk mail, they also do not really want it. > > We're not talking about bulk mail here. We're talking about messages > between individual users, including such things as > doctor or vaccination appointments, meeting schedule coordination, etc, > which both affected parties consider important. > Some occasional small mailing lists for group information exchange, too. > No marketing stuff, social media notifications > or other noise that people wouldn't miss. > > I'm pretty strict myself when it comes to blocking spam-emitting sites. > And of course, it also happens that we block > some IPs or IP ranges due to spamming and some time later it turns out > that the same hosts are used by legitimate > senders. We have several mechanisms in place to detect and remedy such > situations quickly. And when we notice spam > floods (such as the current hotmail bot flood) from mail systems we're > going out of our way to implement very specific > filters that keep out the drek while allowing legitimate mails through. > > It's really not necessary to play devil's advocate here. It's the devil, > he can defend himself quite well if he chooses > to speak. > > Cheers, > Hans-Martin > > ___ > mailop mailing list > mailop@mailop.org > https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop > ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] protection.outlook.com refusing to accept mail with misleading temp error message
Hi, It's unfortunate to see others experiencing the same issues we've had with Microsoft in general. We're not a massive player in the market and constantly experience these service-disrupting incidents with MS and Office365. (Side note - I am also personally a paying premium customer of outlook, so I expect MS to do a proper job with that platform. It's not a "free, so we don't care" system) A thought - Has anyone approached Microsoft/Hotmail and suggested a working group with them? The working group would be representatives of trusted mail host operators and senior admins in MS, understanding that by creating this group, we're reducing both their workload and increasing their customer satisfaction. The goals would be to find solutions for 1. A way to quickly escalate any blocking issues from our IP ranges 2. Establish valid mail trust with our IP ranges, knowing that we are doing everything in our power to limit spam. 3. Establish that mail from these IPs may vary in volume 4. Have the ability to inform MS of new IP addresses, so they don't block them for sudden rate change 5. Help understand ways we can change our systems to reduce the chances of being blocked/deleted/listed I could approach some contacts at Microsoft and see if they're willing to do such a thing? Pinch me if I'm dreaming. Regards, Graeme Slogrove This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] protection.outlook.com refusing to accept mail with misleading temp error message
Am 01.06.21 um 21:39 schrieb John Levine via mailop: > > No, it's to deliver the mail that the users want. One point that bulk > mailers often miss is that, while the recipients at large providers do > not object to getting the bulk mail, they also do not really want it. We're not talking about bulk mail here. We're talking about messages between individual users, including such things as doctor or vaccination appointments, meeting schedule coordination, etc, which both affected parties consider important. Some occasional small mailing lists for group information exchange, too. No marketing stuff, social media notifications or other noise that people wouldn't miss. I'm pretty strict myself when it comes to blocking spam-emitting sites. And of course, it also happens that we block some IPs or IP ranges due to spamming and some time later it turns out that the same hosts are used by legitimate senders. We have several mechanisms in place to detect and remedy such situations quickly. And when we notice spam floods (such as the current hotmail bot flood) from mail systems we're going out of our way to implement very specific filters that keep out the drek while allowing legitimate mails through. It's really not necessary to play devil's advocate here. It's the devil, he can defend himself quite well if he chooses to speak. Cheers, Hans-Martin ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] protection.outlook.com refusing to accept mail with misleading temp error message
Dnia 1.06.2021 o godz. 15:39:15 John Levine via mailop pisze: > > No, it's to deliver the mail that the users want. One point that bulk > mailers often miss is that, while the recipients at large providers do > not object to getting the bulk mail, they also do not really want it. > > So if the provider doesn't deliver it, and their users don't care, that is > not necessarily a mistake. Why do you always assume that the issue only refers to bulk mail? I ran once, a few years ago, into an issue where my purely personal messages, to someone I know, who had email hosted on O365, have been just silently discarded by MS. Neither me nor the recipient knew about this, until we figured out something is wrong and managed to contact using another means. (A similar situation is with Gmail putting my messages into Spam folder, which happened to me a few times). So using your (and Microsoft's) logic, the recipient "did not want" that mail, and "didn't care" that she didn't get it, because she didn't complain to MS that she didn't get it. Which was obviously not the case. And she couldn't complain because she didn't know in the first place that I send her that email. It was good that I had a different way of contacting that person. But what if the only contact was email? Let's assume for example that the recipient is you. You are quite a famous person ;), among others because of a few books you wrote. Some of those books contain your e-mail address, so it's quite normal that you can expect e-mails from your readers. Assume I'm a reader who wants to contact you - for example to ask about something I read in your book or just to express my opinion. But my email gets discarded or rejected. You don't know that I wanted to write to you, so you can't even tell whether my e-mail was wanted or not (according to my criteria, an author can never call messages from his readers "unwanted", even if they just hate him). But according to your logic, since you never worried that you didn't get my email (which you didn't know about at all), you didn't want that email. See the absurdity? -- Regards, Jaroslaw Rafa r...@rafa.eu.org -- "In a million years, when kids go to school, they're gonna know: once there was a Hushpuppy, and she lived with her daddy in the Bathtub." ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] protection.outlook.com refusing to accept mail with misleading temp error message
On Tue, 2021-06-01 at 15:39 -0400, John Levine via mailop wrote: > It appears that Johann Klasek via mailop < > klasek+mai...@zid.tuwien.ac.at> said: > > the aim is, that everyone on the recipient site > > is obligated to provide best possible reachability. > > No, it's to deliver the mail that the users want. One point that bulk > mailers often miss is that, while the recipients at large providers > do not object to getting the bulk mail, they also do not really want > it. I am by no way a bulk mailer. My server sends only legal documents and invoice, all as PDF attachment and with no HTML or other eyecandy or trackware. And yet Microsoft's StupidWhatever(TM) eats the mail without notice to either recipient or sender. How can the recipients know that this is what they want? On Tue, 2021-06-01 at 21:19 +0200, Johann Klasek via mailop wrote: > On Tue, Jun 01, 2021 at 02:48:23PM -0400, John Levine via mailop > wrote: > > > > You should definitely demand a full refund of all the money you've > > paid Microsoft to deliver your mail. > > Oh, wait, ... > > Sorry, I can't here this capitalistic sarcasm anymore That reply has nothing to do with capitalism, and even as sarcasm it is stale. The capitalistic answer is to make the provider responsible / liable for the damages caused by its non-reacheability. It is plain wrong to substitute the provider's StupidWhatever(TM) whims for the individual recipient's decision what is spam and how to deal with it. The individual recipient is the only person entitled to have whims and to ignore incoming mail, at his own responsibility. -- Yuval Levy, JD, MBA, CFA Ontario-licensed lawyer ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] protection.outlook.com refusing to accept mail with misleading temp error message
It appears that Johann Klasek via mailop said: >Sorry, I can't here this capitalistic sarcasm anymore ... maybe I got >this wrong anyhow, but the aim is, that everyone on the recipient site >is obligated to provide best possible reachability. No, it's to deliver the mail that the users want. One point that bulk mailers often miss is that, while the recipients at large providers do not object to getting the bulk mail, they also do not really want it. So if the provider doesn't deliver it, and their users don't care, that is not necessarily a mistake. R's, John ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] protection.outlook.com refusing to accept mail with misleading temp error message
On Tue, Jun 01, 2021 at 02:48:23PM -0400, John Levine via mailop wrote: > It appears that Hans-Martin Mosner via mailop said: > >Glad to hear that they could help you but I'm of the stubborn kind - we're > >not doing anything wrong, we're not spamming, > >we're not in a spammy neighborhood (afaik). That StupidScreen® Filter or > >whatever is deciding that our mail should be > >temp rejected for a day is the thing that's wrong. And I just refuse to > >"fix" something that's not broken to work around > >the brokenness of something else that can be fixed. > > You should definitely demand a full refund of all the money you've paid > Microsoft to deliver your mail. > Oh, wait, ... Sorry, I can't here this capitalistic sarcasm anymore ... maybe I got this wrong anyhow, but the aim is, that everyone on the recipient site is obligated to provide best possible reachability. What does MS pay to others that their customer's mail get delivered? Is this some game to punish each other, to drive all theirs customers and mail admins crazy? Johann K. ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] protection.outlook.com refusing to accept mail with misleading temp error message
Am 01.06.21 um 20:48 schrieb John Levine via mailop: > > You should definitely demand a full refund of all the money you've paid > Microsoft to deliver your mail. > > Oh, wait, ... Well I'd be happy if they just paid a little bit for the time that I had to spend to protect our users from their spam floods. Cheers, Hans-Martin ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] protection.outlook.com refusing to accept mail with misleading temp error message
It appears that Hans-Martin Mosner via mailop said: >Glad to hear that they could help you but I'm of the stubborn kind - we're not >doing anything wrong, we're not spamming, >we're not in a spammy neighborhood (afaik). That StupidScreen® Filter or >whatever is deciding that our mail should be >temp rejected for a day is the thing that's wrong. And I just refuse to "fix" >something that's not broken to work around >the brokenness of something else that can be fixed. You should definitely demand a full refund of all the money you've paid Microsoft to deliver your mail. Oh, wait, ... R's, John ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] protection.outlook.com refusing to accept mail with misleading temp error message
Hi, > Glad to hear that they could help you but I'm of the stubborn kind - we're > not doing anything wrong, we're not spamming, > we're not in a spammy neighborhood (afaik). That StupidScreen® Filter or > whatever is deciding that our mail should be > temp rejected for a day is the thing that's wrong. And I just refuse to "fix" > something that's not broken to work around > the brokenness of something else that can be fixed. > Ack. Recently I had to create a ticket because a friend of mine (having an account on my private mailserver) replied to a mail from a Hotmail user and it was denied. Seems to be very Smart® when it does not even recognize replies to mails sent from their own users. Sometimes ranting seems like the right thing to do ;) Regards Bjoern ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] protection.outlook.com refusing to accept mail with misleading temp error message
jay> Jay's Law: Any product released by a technology company with jay> "Smart" in it's name will do stupid things. I find the following definition of "smart" from dictionary.com to be almost perfect in this context: "to be the cause of a sharp, stinging pain, as an irritating application, a blow, etc." ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
[mailop] protection.outlook.com refusing to accept mail with misleading temp error message
On 6/1/21 03:39, Daniel K. via mailop wrote: It turned out that my ISPs email servers was on the Microsoft shit-list, and that, quote: messages are being filtered (i.e. sent to the Junk folder) based on the recommendations of the SmartScreen® Filter. I propose an Internet law: Jay's Law: Any product released by a technology company with "Smart" in it's name will do stupid things. -- Jay Hennigan - j...@west.net Network Engineering - CCIE #7880 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] protection.outlook.com refusing to accept mail with misleading temp error message
Am 01.06.21 um 12:39 schrieb Daniel K. via mailop: > ... > I don't know anything about the specific error code you showed upthread, > but I finally managed to get in touch with Hotmail sender support > regarding my own problem - by using another email address than the one > used in the form. > > It turned out that my ISPs email servers was on the Microsoft shit-list, > and that, quote: > > messages are being filtered (i.e. sent to the Junk folder) based on the > recommendations of the SmartScreen® Filter. > > So, I reckon that maybe the smartscreen filter decided to send all my > previous replies directly to the junk folder, since I also got no reply > until I sent the same message from another account. > > Maybe something similar is the case for you too? > > Hotmail support was helpful when I finally got hold of them. Glad to hear that they could help you but I'm of the stubborn kind - we're not doing anything wrong, we're not spamming, we're not in a spammy neighborhood (afaik). That StupidScreen® Filter or whatever is deciding that our mail should be temp rejected for a day is the thing that's wrong. And I just refuse to "fix" something that's not broken to work around the brokenness of something else that can be fixed. Cheers, Hans-Martin (yes I know I'm ranting, sometimes I feel like ranting is the thing to do :-) ) ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] protection.outlook.com refusing to accept mail with misleading temp error message
On 6/1/21 10:04 AM, Hans-Martin Mosner via mailop wrote: > Am 28.05.21 um 15:22 schrieb Hans-Martin Mosner via mailop: >> Am 28.05.21 um 13:47 schrieb Hans-Martin Mosner via mailop: >>> Anyone from Microsoft/Outlook available to look into the matter? >> Seems everything is ok now - either someone looked into the matter (thanks!) >> or some timeout ran out :-) > > Same problem again, for no discernible reason. No contact from MS, no > explanation, no abuse complaint. I don't know anything about the specific error code you showed upthread, but I finally managed to get in touch with Hotmail sender support regarding my own problem - by using another email address than the one used in the form. It turned out that my ISPs email servers was on the Microsoft shit-list, and that, quote: messages are being filtered (i.e. sent to the Junk folder) based on the recommendations of the SmartScreen® Filter. So, I reckon that maybe the smartscreen filter decided to send all my previous replies directly to the junk folder, since I also got no reply until I sent the same message from another account. Maybe something similar is the case for you too? Hotmail support was helpful when I finally got hold of them. > Given the ongoing flood of spam from bot-created hotmail accounts this is a > bit odd... Maybe they got Postel's law the wrong way around? Daniel K. ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] protection.outlook.com refusing to accept mail with misleading temp error message
Von: "Hans-Martin Mosner via mailop" An: mailop@mailop.org Gesendet: 01.06.2021 12:04:54 Betreff: Re: [mailop] protection.outlook.com refusing to accept mail with misleading temp error message Am 28.05.21 um 15:22 schrieb Hans-Martin Mosner via mailop: Am 28.05.21 um 13:47 schrieb Hans-Martin Mosner via mailop: Anyone from Microsoft/Outlook available to look into the matter? Seems everything is ok now - either someone looked into the matter (thanks!) or some timeout ran out :-) Same problem again, for no discernible reason. No contact from MS, no explanation, no abuse complaint. Given the ongoing flood of spam from bot-created hotmail accounts this is a bit odd... Cheers, Hans-Martin This is a never ending story. :-D Pretty annoying. One of our ASNs was blocked for a day recently, there was no difference in mail volume or content, it is a low-traffic ASN for little communication. The whole ASN. Once in a while these things happen with MS. It's normal. Yes, given the amount of outbound spam I don't understand how their filter or intelligence works at all. I guess nobody knows anymore at this point. ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] protection.outlook.com refusing to accept mail with misleading temp error message
Am 28.05.21 um 15:22 schrieb Hans-Martin Mosner via mailop: > Am 28.05.21 um 13:47 schrieb Hans-Martin Mosner via mailop: >> Anyone from Microsoft/Outlook available to look into the matter? > Seems everything is ok now - either someone looked into the matter (thanks!) > or some timeout ran out :-) Same problem again, for no discernible reason. No contact from MS, no explanation, no abuse complaint. Given the ongoing flood of spam from bot-created hotmail accounts this is a bit odd... Cheers, Hans-Martin ___ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
