Re: [mailop] SmartScreen filter does not "regroup" email traffic from different IPs

[Michael Wise via mailop]

Honestly, no.
They are required my Legal to always stay on script.

Ask for them to escalate the request to T3 (or even T4?) and see what they have 
to say.
At some point, the request will formally come to the attention of someone who 
can give you a better answer.

But it has to go thru the support funnel, and all of the responses are scripted 
... until something percolates up that hasn't been seen before.
And then new boilerplate and process is created.
If you catch my drift.

Aloha,
Michael.
--
Michael J Wise
Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis
"Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed."
Got the Junk Mail Reporting 
Tool<http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=18275> ?

From: Mathieu Marnat [mailto:mmar...@iroquois.fr]
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2017 5:18 AM
To: Michael Wise <michael.w...@microsoft.com>; mailop@mailop.org
Subject: [mailop] SmartScreen filter does not "regroup" email traffic from 
different IPs


Hi Michael,



I did as you suggested and asked support team to merge reputations of IPs that 
had problems with IPs that didn't (although they all send the same emails from 
the same customer of our solution).

All I had in return was a pre-typed answer. I am sorry to ask it like that : 
are people from your support actual humans ? Can they take two minutes to 
provide a real answer ?



I am supposed to throw these new IPs because it will never be possible to get 
proper support ?

Sometimes when we buy new IPs we cannot necessarily get IPs that were never 
used and with a blank reputation. It seems fair to ask Microsoft's support team 
for a "clean start". I asked that of Vade Retro, with proof that I just 
purchased the IPs and they did it right away.



If you could maybe suggest a solution where I can talk to a human that would be 
fantastic.



Best regards,



Mathieu.

___
mailop mailing list
mailop@mailop.org
https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop

[mailop] SmartScreen filter does not "regroup" email traffic from different IPs

[Mathieu Marnat]

Hi Michael,


I did as you suggested and asked support team to merge reputations of IPs that 
had problems with IPs that didn't (although they all send the same emails from 
the same customer of our solution).

All I had in return was a pre-typed answer. I am sorry to ask it like that : 
are people from your support actual humans ? Can they take two minutes to 
provide a real answer ?


I am supposed to throw these new IPs because it will never be possible to get 
proper support ?

Sometimes when we buy new IPs we cannot necessarily get IPs that were never 
used and with a blank reputation. It seems fair to ask Microsoft's support team 
for a "clean start". I asked that of Vade Retro, with proof that I just 
purchased the IPs and they did it right away.


If you could maybe suggest a solution where I can talk to a human that would be 
fantastic.


Best regards,


Mathieu.

___
mailop mailing list
mailop@mailop.org
https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop

Re: [mailop] SmartScreen filter does not "regroup" email traffic from different IPs

[Davide Migliavacca via mailop]

Hi Mathieu,

seen the same, plus some of the IPs have been blocked (and shown as blocked in 
"View IP Status"), and are still blocked after more than 40 days of complete 
inactivity (no mail whatsoever being sent out), which basically makes me 
suspect some good ol' precious IPv4 addresses have been wasted for good...

Cheers
Davide


Davide Migliavacca
cto, ContactLab
Tel +39 02 2831181
www.contactlab.com

-Original Message-
From: mailop [mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org] On Behalf Of Mathieu Marnat
Sent: 18 October 2017 11:43
To: mailop@mailop.org; mai...@bago.org
Subject: [mailop] SmartScreen filter does not "regroup" email traffic from 
different IPs

Hi Stefano, 




I see you and I have had the same experience with Outlook's support : answers 
are based on a scenario that always ends the same way.

I share your issues : IPs that are working well are green on SNDS and other IPs 
that are consecutive and sending the exact same emails get throttled in my 
case... I do not see any logic in this.

Also, I still get some "server busy" messages from Outlook, that was never the 
case before.




Mathieu.







___
mailop mailing list
mailop@mailop.org
https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop

Re: [mailop] SmartScreen filter does not "regroup" email traffic from different IPs

[Michael Wise via mailop]

  1.  It's a harder problem than it looks.
  2.  It would be interesting to see what their response would be to the ask of 
merging... But they would be the ones to present the question to first.

Aloha,
Michael.
--
Michael J Wise
Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis
"Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed."
Got the Junk Mail Reporting 
Tool<http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=18275> ?

From: Mathieu Marnat [mailto:mmar...@iroquois.fr]
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 2:31 PM
To: mailop@mailop.org; Michael Wise <michael.w...@microsoft.com>
Subject: [mailop] SmartScreen filter does not "regroup" email traffic from 
different IPs


Hi Michael,



Thank you for your answer.

Just two questions :

  1.  Isn't it the whole point of SmartScreen and other "new generation" 
filters to be able to figure out on its own that IPs should be merged instead 
of having to "force" that ? I thought that by now the filter would have 
realized that traffic coming from these different IPs is actually the same.
  2.  I can try to ask support to merge the reputation. But from testimonies 
that were given since I raised this issue (answers are pre-typed and 
unrelevant) do you believe that they will actually do it ? Or maybe there is 
another way to get in touch with someone qualified to actually try and fix the 
issue ?
Regards,

Mathieu.
___
mailop mailing list
mailop@mailop.org
https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop

[mailop] SmartScreen filter does not "regroup" email traffic from different IPs

[Mathieu Marnat]

Hi Michael,


Thank you for your answer.

Just two questions :

  1.  Isn't it the whole point of SmartScreen and other "new generation" 
filters to be able to figure out on its own that IPs should be merged instead 
of having to "force" that ? I thought that by now the filter would have 
realized that traffic coming from these different IPs is actually the same.
  2.  I can try to ask support to merge the reputation. But from testimonies 
that were given since I raised this issue (answers are pre-typed and 
unrelevant) do you believe that they will actually do it ? Or maybe there is 
another way to get in touch with someone qualified to actually try and fix the 
issue ?

Regards,

Mathieu.
___
mailop mailing list
mailop@mailop.org
https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop

Re: [mailop] SmartScreen filter does not "regroup" email traffic from different IPs

[Michael Wise via mailop]

If for some reason in the past, the IPs were treated differently, they will be 
treated differently going forward.
You can ask Hotmail Support if there's some way of "Re-merging" the way the IPs 
are handled.
I'm not aware of how this could be done, but for the IPs you are describing, 
this is almost certainly what has happened.

Aloha,
Michael.
--
Michael J Wise
Microsoft Corporation| Spam Analysis
"Your Spam Specimen Has Been Processed."
Got the Junk Mail Reporting 
Tool<http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=18275> ?

From: mailop [mailto:mailop-boun...@mailop.org] On Behalf Of Mathieu Marnat
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2017 12:33 AM
To: mailop@mailop.org
Subject: [mailop] SmartScreen filter does not "regroup" email traffic from 
different IPs


You don't often get email from mmar...@iroquois.fr<mailto:mmar...@iroquois.fr>. 
Learn why this is important<http://aka.ms/LearnAboutSenderIdentification>

Feedback<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Faka.ms%2FMSITSafetyTipsFeedback=02%7C01%7Cmichael.wise%40microsoft.com%7C4835c0e84c944fa70a5608d515fbc568%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636439093453115310=qN7lAcLhe6Fo5iBIeFQXnshwDTWJ7hnRNLcWL%2FkU8ZI%3D=0>


Hi,



I have an issue with Outlook's anti spam rules. I have been warming up new IPs 
for several weeks now. These IPs are part of the same pool and all send the 
exact same emails. After a few weeks, most of these IPs are not throttled 
anymore and can send whatever quantity of emails I need. However, two IPs (that 
send the exact same emails as the others) get throttling messages or even the 
"part of our block list" message (although on SNDS there is no mention that 
they are blocked).

Outlook's support is of no use with pre-typed answers that can not give me an 
answer to this unusual situation : IPs that send exactly the same emails are 
being treated differently.



Someone had the same issue before ? Is there a way to get in touch with someone 
from Microsoft that will actually take two minutes to try and understand the 
issue ?



Thank you for your help.



Regards,



Mathieu.

___
mailop mailing list
mailop@mailop.org
https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop

[mailop] SmartScreen filter does not "regroup" email traffic from different IPs

[Mathieu Marnat]

Hi Stefano,


I see you and I have had the same experience with Outlook's support : answers 
are based on a scenario that always ends the same way.

I share your issues : IPs that are working well are green on SNDS and other IPs 
that are consecutive and sending the exact same emails get throttled in my 
case... I do not see any logic in this.

Also, I still get some "server busy" messages from Outlook, that was never the 
case before.


Mathieu.



___
mailop mailing list
mailop@mailop.org
https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop

Re: [mailop] SmartScreen filter does not "regroup" email traffic from different IPs

[Stefano Bagnara]

We see similar issues with smartscreen. We tried to understand this
since the past june, but we only got automated answers or real people
answering with automated answers that didn't even took into account
what we wrote. (e.g: they keep telling we should be using SNDS/JMRP
while my messages starts saying that we use SNDS/JMRP and we get no
hints from the 2 tools about the issue).

At the 3rd reply they write "SmartScreen" is the cause and they say
SmartScreen is not about IPs (but in fact we see it as an IP issue)
and it seems SmartScreen is a blackbox for them (at least for the
people answering to their troubleshooting forms).

In our case the issue is not with "block lists", but simply different
treatment for almost identical IPs, or junking of every email coming
from a given IP and sent to a "new address" when SNDS paint it Green
with no trap hits and no complaints and JMRP never reported FBL.

Our IPs are shared between thousands of customers/users, so if
Microsoft doesn't give us any hint about the issue we are not able to
work on it. We don't see similar issues to other providers.

Stefano

PS: for the record my last ticket was SRX1396384464ID (from end of
August). It did follow the same path of 3 previous tickets so I gave
up trying to understand. Answer is always "The IP is not blocked",  it
is because of SmartScreen, so it is because of content. But any email
from that IP to a new recipient is junked (emails sent to recipients
contacted by that IP before the issue appeared are inboxed).

--
Stefano Bagnara
Apache James/jDKIM/jSPF
VOXmail/Mosaico.io/VoidLabs

On 18 October 2017 at 09:32, Mathieu Marnat  wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> I have an issue with Outlook's anti spam rules. I have been warming up new
> IPs for several weeks now. These IPs are part of the same pool and all send
> the exact same emails. After a few weeks, most of these IPs are not
> throttled anymore and can send whatever quantity of emails I need. However,
> two IPs (that send the exact same emails as the others) get throttling
> messages or even the "part of our block list" message (although on SNDS
> there is no mention that they are blocked).
>
> Outlook's support is of no use with pre-typed answers that can not give me
> an answer to this unusual situation : IPs that send exactly the same emails
> are being treated differently.
>
>
> Someone had the same issue before ? Is there a way to get in touch with
> someone from Microsoft that will actually take two minutes to try and
> understand the issue ?
>
>
> Thank you for your help.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Mathieu.

___
mailop mailing list
mailop@mailop.org
https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop

Re: [mailop] SmartScreen filter does not "regroup" email traffic from different IPs

[Mathieu Marnat]

Hi Mathieu,

These IPs are on the same pool and moreover they are consecutive. Which is why 
this makes no sense to me, especially when filter advertise the fact that they 
can regroup traffic from different sources.

Regards,

Mathieu.

De : Mathieu Bourdin <mbour...@np6.com>
Envoyé : mercredi 18 octobre 2017 09:57:39
À : Mathieu Marnat; mailop@mailop.org
Objet : RE: [mailop] SmartScreen filter does not "regroup" email traffic from 
different IPs

Hi

Are those IPs on the same range ? We've seen cases were IP on the same pool but 
coming from different ranges received different treatment based on the 
reputation of other IPs in the vicinity.


Regards
Mathieu


De : Mathieu Marnat [mailto:mmar...@iroquois.fr]
Envoyé : mercredi 18 octobre 2017 09:33
À : mailop@mailop.org
Objet : [mailop] SmartScreen filter does not "regroup" email traffic from 
different IPs


Hi,



I have an issue with Outlook's anti spam rules. I have been warming up new IPs 
for several weeks now. These IPs are part of the same pool and all send the 
exact same emails. After a few weeks, most of these IPs are not throttled 
anymore and can send whatever quantity of emails I need. However, two IPs (that 
send the exact same emails as the others) get throttling messages or even the 
"part of our block list" message (although on SNDS there is no mention that 
they are blocked).

Outlook's support is of no use with pre-typed answers that can not give me an 
answer to this unusual situation : IPs that send exactly the same emails are 
being treated differently.



Someone had the same issue before ? Is there a way to get in touch with someone 
from Microsoft that will actually take two minutes to try and understand the 
issue ?



Thank you for your help.



Regards,



Mathieu.

___
mailop mailing list
mailop@mailop.org
https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop

Re: [mailop] SmartScreen filter does not "regroup" email traffic from different IPs

[Mathieu Bourdin]

Hi

Are those IPs on the same range ? We've seen cases were IP on the same pool but 
coming from different ranges received different treatment based on the 
reputation of other IPs in the vicinity.


Regards
Mathieu


De : Mathieu Marnat [mailto:mmar...@iroquois.fr]
Envoyé : mercredi 18 octobre 2017 09:33
À : mailop@mailop.org
Objet : [mailop] SmartScreen filter does not "regroup" email traffic from 
different IPs


Hi,



I have an issue with Outlook's anti spam rules. I have been warming up new IPs 
for several weeks now. These IPs are part of the same pool and all send the 
exact same emails. After a few weeks, most of these IPs are not throttled 
anymore and can send whatever quantity of emails I need. However, two IPs (that 
send the exact same emails as the others) get throttling messages or even the 
"part of our block list" message (although on SNDS there is no mention that 
they are blocked).

Outlook's support is of no use with pre-typed answers that can not give me an 
answer to this unusual situation : IPs that send exactly the same emails are 
being treated differently.



Someone had the same issue before ? Is there a way to get in touch with someone 
from Microsoft that will actually take two minutes to try and understand the 
issue ?



Thank you for your help.



Regards,



Mathieu.

___
mailop mailing list
mailop@mailop.org
https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop

[mailop] SmartScreen filter does not "regroup" email traffic from different IPs

[Mathieu Marnat]

Hi,


I have an issue with Outlook's anti spam rules. I have been warming up new IPs 
for several weeks now. These IPs are part of the same pool and all send the 
exact same emails. After a few weeks, most of these IPs are not throttled 
anymore and can send whatever quantity of emails I need. However, two IPs (that 
send the exact same emails as the others) get throttling messages or even the 
"part of our block list" message (although on SNDS there is no mention that 
they are blocked).

Outlook's support is of no use with pre-typed answers that can not give me an 
answer to this unusual situation : IPs that send exactly the same emails are 
being treated differently.


Someone had the same issue before ? Is there a way to get in touch with someone 
from Microsoft that will actually take two minutes to try and understand the 
issue ?


Thank you for your help.


Regards,


Mathieu.

___
mailop mailing list
mailop@mailop.org
https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop