Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work
Hi :) That would be really cool imo. Sadly, ime, it's the type of thing that a lot of people would object to and grumble about the space taken up (despite the relatively vast sizes of hard-drives these days and the tiny file-size of most documents). At the moment the compromise is to give the user a pop-up when they save in non-native format so that you can do a 1-off save as Odf even if the default remains as Doc (or whatever it's been switched to). Taking advantage of that might be the best way for the journo in this case - ie occasional saves in native format (Odf (specifically Odt for Writer/Word)) ensure a back-up is kept. I think this whole issue is becoming less relevant because ODF is becoming more widely used and accepted, so less people seem to demand MS formats. We still have to use non-native formats far tooo often (still almost all the time in my country) but it's becoming possible to use Odf occasionally now. Hopefully in a few years Odf might even become the more dominant format. Regards from Tom :) > > From: Fridolin >To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org >Sent: Thursday, 13 December 2012, 23:01 >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work > >Hey guys, > >why not the following: > >an option in the LO defaults that automatically >saves a document in LO format when it is saved >in another format (for all documents...) > >or > >save into the document whether it should be saved >in native as well as an alternative format, e.g. DOC. >(for a specific document.) > >Fridolin > > > >On 14/12/12 09:53, Jean Weber wrote: >> On 14/12/2012, at 5:09, "C. Olofson" wrote: >> >>> Well; >>> >>> If this is considered 'best practices' or even 'good practice' the software >>> should be set, by default, to do it then. Currently, in contrast, the >>> Getting Started Guide (v3.5 p49) makes the choice of using *either* format >>> appear inconsequential: >>>> If you routinely share documents with users of Microsoft Office, you might >>>> want to change the Always save as attribute for documents to one of the >>>> Microsoft Office formats. >> >> At some point it says to keep a working copy in .ODT format, but that (and a >> comment about why) needs to be made more prominent and stated more strongly. >> I'll make sure the next iteration of the books (Writer Guide and others, not >> just Getting Started) does that. >> >> Having said that, I also agree with Craig's next paragraph. >> >> --Jean >> >>> For what it's worth, this is a classic case of a "crisis" for a consumer >>> goods company (i.e. s/w application publisher). The solution to this won't >>> be found in providing helpful hints for the next time. It'll be found by >>> being very responsive in providing status and resolution in the same forums >>> where the crisis is being discussed by consumers. >>> >>> For example: >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_management#Examples_of_successful_crisis_management >>> >>> -Craig >>> >>> On 12/13/2012 10:14 AM, Tom Davies wrote: >>>> Hi :) >>>> Jay's advice is pretty much the standard the Users List keep reiterating. >>>> Keep an original in native format and if you have to share with others >>>> give them a Doc NOT a DocX >>>> >>>> I've lost count of how many times a wide range of different people have >>>> said that on the Users List. >>>> Regards from >>>> Tom :) >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: Jay Lozier >>>>> To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org >>>>> Sent: Thursday, 13 December 2012, 18:01 >>>>> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost >>>>> work >>>>> >>>>> On 12/13/2012 12:18 PM, Italo Vignoli wrote: >>>>>> On 12/13/12 6:17 PM, Jay Lozier wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Good question about document length and how was he saving. What I read >>>>>>> did not have enough details to know truly what happened. >>>>>> Received both docs, unfortunately they are DOCX. Short doc, three pages, >>>>>> seems to be a format problem and not a content problem (the DOCX is >>>>>> damaged). >>>>> As matter of good pract
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work
We need to have an auto-save function where it saves the file and not just the recovery info. We can set it for every 5 minutes. Then if there is a crash, say the whole computer, the person can still access the document as so as he/she can access the drive. Sometimes the really large documents will take a slow10 count to save, but it would be worth it for those who can not afford to have a large document lost. I have has problems with the recovery system before where it kept failing to recover it and I had to delete my user profile to get back to using the package. That was in 3.3 and 3.4 days, but it could happen again if I was not as careful as I am now about deleting corrupted files that could not be saved. Actually it would be good to save the files in a "native" format, or even the non-XML MSO formats. It seems that the .docx format had its "kin" seems to be the ones with the most problems. It will be interesting to see what MSO-2013 does with their version of ODF. I wonder how it would be to get people to "market" LO and the "Internationally" recognized standard office formats - ODF - and see how well MSO will deal with it. Get people use to using ODF and then export them to .doc and the other non-XML formats. Then, if required, export them to the .docx and its kin of formats. I keep telling people that there are problems with the .docx format[s] that gives rise to files created on the newer version package not working well with the older office packages. If you would use the .doc format, then there would be no problems. It will be even worse when MSO-2013 comes out. So I tell then to use the older .doc format, etc., to make sure everyone in the document chain can use it properly. After that I talk about using LO as a free alternative. Get them using a format that does not cause all these problems, then get them to think about a free package when they need to install an office package to a new computer or upgrade an older system to newer packages. . On 12/13/2012 06:01 PM, Fridolin wrote: Hey guys, why not the following: an option in the LO defaults that automatically saves a document in LO format when it is saved in another format (for all documents...) or save into the document whether it should be saved in native as well as an alternative format, e.g. DOC. (for a specific document.) Fridolin On 14/12/12 09:53, Jean Weber wrote: On 14/12/2012, at 5:09, "C. Olofson" wrote: Well; If this is considered 'best practices' or even 'good practice' the software should be set, by default, to do it then. Currently, in contrast, the Getting Started Guide (v3.5 p49) makes the choice of using *either* format appear inconsequential: If you routinely share documents with users of Microsoft Office, you might want to change the Always save as attribute for documents to one of the Microsoft Office formats. At some point it says to keep a working copy in .ODT format, but that (and a comment about why) needs to be made more prominent and stated more strongly. I'll make sure the next iteration of the books (Writer Guide and others, not just Getting Started) does that. Having said that, I also agree with Craig's next paragraph. --Jean For what it's worth, this is a classic case of a "crisis" for a consumer goods company (i.e. s/w application publisher). The solution to this won't be found in providing helpful hints for the next time. It'll be found by being very responsive in providing status and resolution in the same forums where the crisis is being discussed by consumers. For example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_management#Examples_of_successful_crisis_management -Craig On 12/13/2012 10:14 AM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Jay's advice is pretty much the standard the Users List keep reiterating. Keep an original in native format and if you have to share with others give them a Doc NOT a DocX I've lost count of how many times a wide range of different people have said that on the Users List. Regards from Tom :) ________ From: Jay Lozier To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Thursday, 13 December 2012, 18:01 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work On 12/13/2012 12:18 PM, Italo Vignoli wrote: On 12/13/12 6:17 PM, Jay Lozier wrote: Good question about document length and how was he saving. What I read did not have enough details to know truly what happened. Received both docs, unfortunately they are DOCX. Short doc, three pages, seems to be a format problem and not a content problem (the DOCX is damaged). As matter of good practice I always save or create as an ODF document. If I need to send it as some other format then I use Save As or File>>Export -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work
Hey guys, why not the following: an option in the LO defaults that automatically saves a document in LO format when it is saved in another format (for all documents...) or save into the document whether it should be saved in native as well as an alternative format, e.g. DOC. (for a specific document.) Fridolin On 14/12/12 09:53, Jean Weber wrote: On 14/12/2012, at 5:09, "C. Olofson" wrote: Well; If this is considered 'best practices' or even 'good practice' the software should be set, by default, to do it then. Currently, in contrast, the Getting Started Guide (v3.5 p49) makes the choice of using *either* format appear inconsequential: If you routinely share documents with users of Microsoft Office, you might want to change the Always save as attribute for documents to one of the Microsoft Office formats. At some point it says to keep a working copy in .ODT format, but that (and a comment about why) needs to be made more prominent and stated more strongly. I'll make sure the next iteration of the books (Writer Guide and others, not just Getting Started) does that. Having said that, I also agree with Craig's next paragraph. --Jean For what it's worth, this is a classic case of a "crisis" for a consumer goods company (i.e. s/w application publisher). The solution to this won't be found in providing helpful hints for the next time. It'll be found by being very responsive in providing status and resolution in the same forums where the crisis is being discussed by consumers. For example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_management#Examples_of_successful_crisis_management -Craig On 12/13/2012 10:14 AM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Jay's advice is pretty much the standard the Users List keep reiterating. Keep an original in native format and if you have to share with others give them a Doc NOT a DocX I've lost count of how many times a wide range of different people have said that on the Users List. Regards from Tom :) From: Jay Lozier To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Thursday, 13 December 2012, 18:01 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work On 12/13/2012 12:18 PM, Italo Vignoli wrote: On 12/13/12 6:17 PM, Jay Lozier wrote: Good question about document length and how was he saving. What I read did not have enough details to know truly what happened. Received both docs, unfortunately they are DOCX. Short doc, three pages, seems to be a format problem and not a content problem (the DOCX is damaged). As matter of good practice I always save or create as an ODF document. If I need to send it as some other format then I use Save As or File>>Export -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work
On 14/12/2012, at 5:09, "C. Olofson" wrote: > Well; > > If this is considered 'best practices' or even 'good practice' the software > should be set, by default, to do it then. Currently, in contrast, the > Getting Started Guide (v3.5 p49) makes the choice of using *either* format > appear inconsequential: >> If you routinely share documents with users of Microsoft Office, you might >> want to change the Always save as attribute for documents to one of the >> Microsoft Office formats. At some point it says to keep a working copy in .ODT format, but that (and a comment about why) needs to be made more prominent and stated more strongly. I'll make sure the next iteration of the books (Writer Guide and others, not just Getting Started) does that. Having said that, I also agree with Craig's next paragraph. --Jean > > For what it's worth, this is a classic case of a "crisis" for a consumer > goods company (i.e. s/w application publisher). The solution to this won't > be found in providing helpful hints for the next time. It'll be found by > being very responsive in providing status and resolution in the same forums > where the crisis is being discussed by consumers. > > For example: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_management#Examples_of_successful_crisis_management > > -Craig > > On 12/13/2012 10:14 AM, Tom Davies wrote: >> Hi :) >> Jay's advice is pretty much the standard the Users List keep reiterating. >> Keep an original in native format and if you have to share with others give >> them a Doc NOT a DocX >> >> I've lost count of how many times a wide range of different people have said >> that on the Users List. >> Regards from >> Tom :) >> >> >>> >>> From: Jay Lozier >>> To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org >>> Sent: Thursday, 13 December 2012, 18:01 >>> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work >>> >>> On 12/13/2012 12:18 PM, Italo Vignoli wrote: >>>> On 12/13/12 6:17 PM, Jay Lozier wrote: >>>> >>>>> Good question about document length and how was he saving. What I read >>>>> did not have enough details to know truly what happened. >>>> Received both docs, unfortunately they are DOCX. Short doc, three pages, >>>> seems to be a format problem and not a content problem (the DOCX is >>>> damaged). >>> As matter of good practice I always save or create as an ODF document. If I >>> need to send it as some other format then I use Save As or File>>Export >>> >>> -- Jay Lozier >>> jsloz...@gmail.com >>> -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work
On 12/13/2012 02:09 PM, C. Olofson wrote: Well; If this is considered 'best practices' or even 'good practice' the software should be set, by default, to do it then. Currently, in contrast, the Getting Started Guide (v3.5 p49) makes the choice of using *either* format appear inconsequential: If you routinely share documents with users of Microsoft Office, you might want to change the Always save as attribute for documents to one of the Microsoft Office formats. For what it's worth, this is a classic case of a "crisis" for a consumer goods company (i.e. s/w application publisher). The solution to this won't be found in providing helpful hints for the next time. It'll be found by being very responsive in providing status and resolution in the same forums where the crisis is being discussed by consumers. For example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_management#Examples_of_successful_crisis_management -Craig The problem all s/w suppliers face is one of users doing foolish things because they can. This not offered as an excuse, we should probably make it clearer what best practices are in our documentation. Also, the default setting for LO is to ask when it detects one is not saving to an ODF format. This setting can be annoying when that is explicitly what one wants to do, e.g. saving a worksheet as a csv file. It also can be disabled by the user, however I like to leave enabled just as a reminder when I forget to save in an ODF format. If warning pop ups are disabled or ignored by the user ultimately the responsibility rest with the user not with the software developer. My problem with the original rant was it was short on details about what happened and why. It implied that the document was saved manually (using docx format learned later). Write's default is to ask if this desired and offers to save in an ODF format. So either he turned off the pop-ups or ignored them - thus partially a user problem. Italo noted that the real culprit is the docx format which causes problems for users. There numerous reports on the Users list of docx format being flaky to open and save to. On 12/13/2012 10:14 AM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Jay's advice is pretty much the standard the Users List keep reiterating. Keep an original in native format and if you have to share with others give them a Doc NOT a DocX I've lost count of how many times a wide range of different people have said that on the Users List. Regards from Tom :) From: Jay Lozier To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Thursday, 13 December 2012, 18:01 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work On 12/13/2012 12:18 PM, Italo Vignoli wrote: On 12/13/12 6:17 PM, Jay Lozier wrote: Good question about document length and how was he saving. What I read did not have enough details to know truly what happened. Received both docs, unfortunately they are DOCX. Short doc, three pages, seems to be a format problem and not a content problem (the DOCX is damaged). As matter of good practice I always save or create as an ODF document. If I need to send it as some other format then I use Save As or File>>Export -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work
If you are a professional writer, I would have the check-box for "Always create backup copy" checked. Same with "Save AutoRecovery information every" and use the smallest number. If you keep the "defaults" you might lose a lot more typing. There are a lot of ways to make sure you do not lose a document that is important to you.. I have crashed long emails and lost a bit of work, but if you are a professional writer, you should use every technique to make sure you do not lose work and the time it took you to produce it. Since the user uses Ubuntu, he does not have the crashes that he might get with Windows where a "background package" crashes and that crashes the desktop/laptop. Ubuntu very rarely would do that. That is one reason I went to Linux. As one post states, it would be good to know which version of Ubuntu [and desktop environment like MATE, Unity, KDE] and version of LibreOffice the user is using. There are too many times that a users posts a problem that could be due to a bug or issue that has been fixed with a newer version. Since this is the Marketing List, we need to think about how we can "market" LO with the idea of using ODF first and then save a copy to the MSO format needed, since most times ODF creates a smaller file. Yes, people like me with 3-5 terabytes of drive space do not need to think too much about that, but "budget" users with small drive laptops would. One reason to buy LO is the cost, and budget users could appreciate the space savings on a internal drive for both the install and the document files. On 12/13/2012 01:14 PM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Jay's advice is pretty much the standard the Users List keep reiterating. Keep an original in native format and if you have to share with others give them a Doc NOT a DocX I've lost count of how many times a wide range of different people have said that on the Users List. Regards from Tom :) From: Jay Lozier To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Thursday, 13 December 2012, 18:01 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work On 12/13/2012 12:18 PM, Italo Vignoli wrote: On 12/13/12 6:17 PM, Jay Lozier wrote: Good question about document length and how was he saving. What I read did not have enough details to know truly what happened. Received both docs, unfortunately they are DOCX. Short doc, three pages, seems to be a format problem and not a content problem (the DOCX is damaged). As matter of good practice I always save or create as an ODF document. If I need to send it as some other format then I use Save As or File>>Export -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work
Well; If this is considered 'best practices' or even 'good practice' the software should be set, by default, to do it then. Currently, in contrast, the Getting Started Guide (v3.5 p49) makes the choice of using *either* format appear inconsequential: If you routinely share documents with users of Microsoft Office, you might want to change the Always save as attribute for documents to one of the Microsoft Office formats. For what it's worth, this is a classic case of a "crisis" for a consumer goods company (i.e. s/w application publisher). The solution to this won't be found in providing helpful hints for the next time. It'll be found by being very responsive in providing status and resolution in the same forums where the crisis is being discussed by consumers. For example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_management#Examples_of_successful_crisis_management -Craig On 12/13/2012 10:14 AM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Jay's advice is pretty much the standard the Users List keep reiterating. Keep an original in native format and if you have to share with others give them a Doc NOT a DocX I've lost count of how many times a wide range of different people have said that on the Users List. Regards from Tom :) From: Jay Lozier To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org Sent: Thursday, 13 December 2012, 18:01 Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work On 12/13/2012 12:18 PM, Italo Vignoli wrote: On 12/13/12 6:17 PM, Jay Lozier wrote: Good question about document length and how was he saving. What I read did not have enough details to know truly what happened. Received both docs, unfortunately they are DOCX. Short doc, three pages, seems to be a format problem and not a content problem (the DOCX is damaged). As matter of good practice I always save or create as an ODF document. If I need to send it as some other format then I use Save As or File>>Export -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work
Hi :) Jay's advice is pretty much the standard the Users List keep reiterating. Keep an original in native format and if you have to share with others give them a Doc NOT a DocX I've lost count of how many times a wide range of different people have said that on the Users List. Regards from Tom :) > > From: Jay Lozier >To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org >Sent: Thursday, 13 December 2012, 18:01 >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work > >On 12/13/2012 12:18 PM, Italo Vignoli wrote: >> On 12/13/12 6:17 PM, Jay Lozier wrote: >> >>> Good question about document length and how was he saving. What I read >>> did not have enough details to know truly what happened. >> Received both docs, unfortunately they are DOCX. Short doc, three pages, >> seems to be a format problem and not a content problem (the DOCX is >> damaged). >> >As matter of good practice I always save or create as an ODF document. If I >need to send it as some other format then I use Save As or File>>Export > >-- Jay Lozier >jsloz...@gmail.com > > >-- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org >Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ >All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted > > > > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work
On 12/13/2012 12:18 PM, Italo Vignoli wrote: On 12/13/12 6:17 PM, Jay Lozier wrote: Good question about document length and how was he saving. What I read did not have enough details to know truly what happened. Received both docs, unfortunately they are DOCX. Short doc, three pages, seems to be a format problem and not a content problem (the DOCX is damaged). I almost never create docx documents. I tend to use.doc if I need to send it to a Word users for further editing by them, otherwise I send them PDFs. The more "complex" the .docx document, the worse time I have with it being read properly with LO. I just prefer to do all my editing in .odt and then "export" a copy to .doc or .docx as needed. I know a lady that sends out .docx files as "fliers and posters", but never realized people may have problems using these documents. Yes, people have problems with proper displaying/reading them in MSO-2007 and not just LO users. Why would someone "require" .docx format? I know a book editor and she tells me that publishers do require certain document formats, but never heard of any that required .docx over .doc. She is a Mac user, so her options are limited forusing MS packages. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work
On 12/13/2012 12:18 PM, Italo Vignoli wrote: On 12/13/12 6:17 PM, Jay Lozier wrote: Good question about document length and how was he saving. What I read did not have enough details to know truly what happened. Received both docs, unfortunately they are DOCX. Short doc, three pages, seems to be a format problem and not a content problem (the DOCX is damaged). As matter of good practice I always save or create as an ODF document. If I need to send it as some other format then I use Save As or File>>Export -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work
On 12/13/12 6:22 PM, Benjamin Horst wrote: > It's a shame his post was framed as a critique of LibreOffice, when > it could just as easily have been a critique of the docx family of > formats. (My headline would have been: "Why is docx such an > unreliable format that I cannot manipulate it using the software tool > of my choice without headaches?") Dan is a reasonable guy, and I will try to explain this concept to him. -- Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work
We are using MS Office in work. It even corrupts the docs by itself. Suddenly the docs which you just saved yesterday corrupts and it cannot be opened by Ms Office 2007. Only Word Viewer opened it. I had experienced it many times. We have upgraded to 2010. I haven't reproduced it but it has already major comparibility issues with 2007. The point what i wrote this that everyday ppl experience similar errors. I am working in a bank and me and my colegues just accept this kind of disaster and repeat the work . There is no place to complain with or blame with anger. It is certain that especially you do not have someone to hear you on MS Office side in local. Even you have succeded and they fixed something, when it will be usable, next sevice pack? When your it will apply it? We have 20.000 computers. The good part of free software is the thing that we have experienced; communication, cooperation and rapid development which brings urgent fixes and implementions. Nothing is perfect but these stuff leads wellness. Serious works needs safety more frequent saves saves lives :) Seriously i hope this will lead an improvement in LO autosave and file recovery functions Regards, Zeki -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work
On Dec 13, 2012, at 12:18 PM, Italo Vignoli wrote: > On 12/13/12 6:17 PM, Jay Lozier wrote: > >> Good question about document length and how was he saving. What I read >> did not have enough details to know truly what happened. > > Received both docs, unfortunately they are DOCX. Short doc, three pages, > seems to be a format problem and not a content problem (the DOCX is > damaged). That was going to be my guess--saving into a foreign document format does seem to add potential for more problems. (At least historically; I haven't used the MS docx formats much in a long time.) It's a shame his post was framed as a critique of LibreOffice, when it could just as easily have been a critique of the docx family of formats. (My headline would have been: "Why is docx such an unreliable format that I cannot manipulate it using the software tool of my choice without headaches?") -Ben > -- > Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com > mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it > skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com > > -- > Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org > Problems? > http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ > All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted > Benjamin Horst bho...@mac.com 646-464-2314 (Eastern) www.solidoffice.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work
On 12/13/12 6:17 PM, Jay Lozier wrote: > Good question about document length and how was he saving. What I read > did not have enough details to know truly what happened. Received both docs, unfortunately they are DOCX. Short doc, three pages, seems to be a format problem and not a content problem (the DOCX is damaged). -- Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work
On 12/13/2012 09:58 AM, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote: On 12/13/2012 09:00 AM, Jay Lozier wrote: On 12/13/2012 03:38 AM, C. Olofson wrote: fyi; I really really want to like Libre Office, but I just lost an hour of editing in a document due to some bizarre bug that I can't can now reproduce. And I was saving regularly. Crap, crap, crap. https://plus.google.com/113210431006401244170/posts/E7Ktup1Aq4M He does not elaborate about the problem so it is impossible to fix or reproduce. Other than his claim LO lost his data we know nothing about what happened. Also, did he hit UNDO to try to recover? Truthfully, I can not remember when any program I was using lost data where the major part of the problem was not in the chair (me). I wonder about the auto-save option. He said something about saving it regularly. Was that through auto save or manual save? The file just went missing or did the recover process do something bad? Never heard of any such thing with Ubuntu. Also, how long was the document? 2 pages, 10, 20? That could affect the recover process, yes, no? Good question about document length and how was he saving. What I read did not have enough details to know truly what happened. -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work
On 12/13/2012 09:00 AM, Jay Lozier wrote: On 12/13/2012 03:38 AM, C. Olofson wrote: fyi; I really really want to like Libre Office, but I just lost an hour of editing in a document due to some bizarre bug that I can't can now reproduce. And I was saving regularly. Crap, crap, crap. https://plus.google.com/113210431006401244170/posts/E7Ktup1Aq4M He does not elaborate about the problem so it is impossible to fix or reproduce. Other than his claim LO lost his data we know nothing about what happened. Also, did he hit UNDO to try to recover? Truthfully, I can not remember when any program I was using lost data where the major part of the problem was not in the chair (me). I wonder about the auto-save option. He said something about saving it regularly. Was that through auto save or manual save? The file just went missing or did the recover process do something bad? Never heard of any such thing with Ubuntu. Also, how long was the document? 2 pages, 10, 20? That could affect the recover process, yes, no? -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work
Exactly so, Italo. Thank you & Charles for following through with this. -Craig On 12/13/2012 05:50 AM, Italo Vignoli wrote: I know Dan, he used to be a famous newspaper journalist (San Jose Mercury News, and then Silicon Valley Watcher), but now he is even more authoritative and influential as he has replaced Walter Cronkite at the Arizona State University School of Journalism (probably, the best worldwide). I am going to write him a personal message, as he might not see the G+ discussion. He is using Ubuntu, and I will try to discover which version of LibreOffice. Ciao, Italo On 12/13/12 2:45 PM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: Hold on right there. Dan Gillmore is a famous newspaper journalist from Silicon Valley and he's no bullshiter. I have asked him to send us a copy of this problematic document, we will see... -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work
On 12/13/2012 03:38 AM, C. Olofson wrote: fyi; I really really want to like Libre Office, but I just lost an hour of editing in a document due to some bizarre bug that I can't can now reproduce. And I was saving regularly. Crap, crap, crap. https://plus.google.com/113210431006401244170/posts/E7Ktup1Aq4M He does not elaborate about the problem so it is impossible to fix or reproduce. Other than his claim LO lost his data we know nothing about what happened. Also, did he hit UNDO to try to recover? Truthfully, I can not remember when any program I was using lost data where the major part of the problem was not in the chair (me). -- Jay Lozier jsloz...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work
I know Dan, he used to be a famous newspaper journalist (San Jose Mercury News, and then Silicon Valley Watcher), but now he is even more authoritative and influential as he has replaced Walter Cronkite at the Arizona State University School of Journalism (probably, the best worldwide). I am going to write him a personal message, as he might not see the G+ discussion. He is using Ubuntu, and I will try to discover which version of LibreOffice. Ciao, Italo On 12/13/12 2:45 PM, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: > Hold on right there. Dan Gillmore is a famous newspaper journalist from > Silicon Valley and he's no bullshiter. I have asked him to send us a > copy of this problematic document, we will see... -- Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work
Tom, Hold on right there. Dan Gillmore is a famous newspaper journalist from Silicon Valley and he's no bullshiter. I have asked him to send us a copy of this problematic document, we will see... best, Charles. Le jeudi 13 décembre 2012 à 12:38 +, Tom Davies a écrit : > Hi :) > It's just a couple of people (perhaps paid by MS) just trying to stir-up > trouble. > > > Notice that it's a problem that has never been reported to the User List here > nor to the forums. I've never had the problem. Have you? They could have > reported the problem to the Users List or anywhere else that might have been > able to either help or would have been interested in posting a bug-report and > getting it fixed. So, they clearly didn't want it fixed but more than that, > they didn't want it to become obvious that their grumble is more likely to be > due to hardware issues (note they gave no specs nor version numbers of > anything). > > > IF the 2 people (or 1 person using 2 names) really did have the problem then > there are a lot of questions. Was there enough empty space on the drive they > were saving too? Were they saving to a temp folder and then cleared their > temp folders? Was there drive corruption? Did other programs appear to lose > data? Have they even tried other programs since the problem occured? Did > they immediately follow standard data-loss protocols? DId they check it > wasn't just that they accidentaly changed font colour to white against a > white background? Did they do Anne's favourite and deleted their lock-file > and then save an older version over the top of the newer version of the > document. In their thread no-one asked any of those questions. No-one tried > opening the file as though it was a zip file. > > If people don't want a problem solved and want to ensure they don't recover > the allegedly missing data then the approach they took is just about perfect. > > > > There will be an increasing amount of FUD out there as LO and AOO become more > widely used. If you see something negative about LO out there then just ask > yourself who stands to profit from it, "follow the money". Also ask yourself > how likely the problem is and whether the people have really made an effort > to fix it. Perhaps point them to somewhere they really might get some useful > help. > > Regards from > Tom :) > > > > > > > > > From: C. Olofson > >To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org > >Sent: Thursday, 13 December 2012, 8:38 > >Subject: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work > > > >fyi; > >> I really really want to like Libre Office, but I just lost an hour of > >> editing in a document due to some bizarre bug that I can't can now > >> reproduce. And I was saving regularly. Crap, crap, crap. > >https://plus.google.com/113210431006401244170/posts/E7Ktup1Aq4M > > > >-- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org > >Problems? > >http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > >Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > >List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ > >All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > >deleted > > > > > > > > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work
Hi :) It's just a couple of people (perhaps paid by MS) just trying to stir-up trouble. Notice that it's a problem that has never been reported to the User List here nor to the forums. I've never had the problem. Have you? They could have reported the problem to the Users List or anywhere else that might have been able to either help or would have been interested in posting a bug-report and getting it fixed. So, they clearly didn't want it fixed but more than that, they didn't want it to become obvious that their grumble is more likely to be due to hardware issues (note they gave no specs nor version numbers of anything). IF the 2 people (or 1 person using 2 names) really did have the problem then there are a lot of questions. Was there enough empty space on the drive they were saving too? Were they saving to a temp folder and then cleared their temp folders? Was there drive corruption? Did other programs appear to lose data? Have they even tried other programs since the problem occured? Did they immediately follow standard data-loss protocols? DId they check it wasn't just that they accidentaly changed font colour to white against a white background? Did they do Anne's favourite and deleted their lock-file and then save an older version over the top of the newer version of the document. In their thread no-one asked any of those questions. No-one tried opening the file as though it was a zip file. If people don't want a problem solved and want to ensure they don't recover the allegedly missing data then the approach they took is just about perfect. There will be an increasing amount of FUD out there as LO and AOO become more widely used. If you see something negative about LO out there then just ask yourself who stands to profit from it, "follow the money". Also ask yourself how likely the problem is and whether the people have really made an effort to fix it. Perhaps point them to somewhere they really might get some useful help. Regards from Tom :) > > From: C. Olofson >To: marketing@global.libreoffice.org >Sent: Thursday, 13 December 2012, 8:38 >Subject: [libreoffice-marketing] US Journalist blames LibO for lost work > >fyi; >> I really really want to like Libre Office, but I just lost an hour of >> editing in a document due to some bizarre bug that I can't can now >> reproduce. And I was saving regularly. Crap, crap, crap. >https://plus.google.com/113210431006401244170/posts/E7Ktup1Aq4M > >-- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org >Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ >All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted > > > > -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to marketing+h...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/marketing/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
