[Marxism] Banks 'get rich quick' habits same as ever, despite 'reform' talk

[Stuart Munckton]

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 Get rich quick trumps market reform: analysts
 Luc Olinga November 7, 2010 - 4:39PM

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/get-rich-quick-trumps-market-reform-analysts-20101107-17iq5.html

The Group of 20 countries, meeting next week, were supposed to have stamped
out the financial market abuses at the heart of the global crisis but little
seems to have changed since their last summit, analysts say

Hopes for reform after the market chicanery that brought down a series of
'too-big-to-fail' banks and sparked the worst slump since the 1930s have
faded with the return of the 'get rich quick' mentality, according to
analysts.

"The bad old habits have come back much faster than was expected," said
Denis Marcadet of Vendome Associes in Paris.

"Make a lot of money and quickly," is the refrain again, he said.

The G20 rich and developing major economies have made reform of the
financial markets a key objective but analysts say that good intentions are
failing to keep up with reality.

"Nothing has changed, if it is only that the banks now give the appearance
of being much stricter so as not to get splashed all over the front pages,"
said Eric Singer of Singer and Hamilton, a head-hunting agency specialising
in financial services appointments.

Derivatives -- complex and often highly speculative investment instruments
blamed for much of the turmoil and damage -- continue to be widely used and
traded with little meaningful regulatory oversight.

"Sure, there are fewer (derivatives) now than before the global crisis but
they are still as much in use. Some seven trillion euros (9.9 trillion US
dollars) are out there," said Olivier Huneau, a dealer at
www.nouveautrader.com

Uncontrolled speculative trade in derivatives sank US investment banking
giant Lehman Brothers in late 2008, setting off a chain reaction that
brought the global financial system, and then the economy, to its knees.

Never again, said the politicians and regulators, but two years on what has
changed? The bonus culture, said to have encouraged too much risk-taking,
seems alive and well, analysts said.

This year, the banks, brokers and finance houses will pay bonuses worth some
144 billion US dollars to staff, according to a Wall Street Journal study.

"We have undoubtedly made a lot of progress, on paper, but much of it is
just window dressing," said Pierre Ciret, economist at Edmond de Rothschild
Asset Management.

Ciret said the banks, many kept afloat by massive government support, need
to be closely scrutinised because, if they are more careful now, "that will
all change once their balance sheets are sorted out."

Singer said the authorities do not understand that speculative bubbles can
now build very quickly, meaning that regulators have to anticipate more.

At their 2009 summit in Pittsburg in the United States, the G20 called for
increased oversight of derivatives markets, trader salaries and bonuses
along with reform of the ratings agencies -- to make them better monitors of
credit risk -- and curbs on proprietary trading, where brokers trade for
themselves not clients.

But other reform measures appear more distant.

New rules proposed in September by the Basel Committee of international
regulators to strengthen the capacity of banks to confront future crises do
not take effect until 2013.

Another initiative to improve the quality of bank equity holdings will not
become operational until January 1 2015.

Nevertheless, bank lobby groups have been active on the sidelines, arguing
that too severe a tightening of regulations could hobble lending and pose a
threat to the global recovery.

© 2010 
AFP
 This story is sourced direct from an overseas news agency as an additional
service to readers. Spelling follows North American usage, along with
foreign currency and measurement units.

-- 
“Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is humanity’s
original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made,
through disobedience and through rebellion.” — Oscar Wilde, Soul of Man
Under Socialism

“The free market is perfectly natural... do you think I am some kind of
dummy?” — Jarvis Cocker

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Re: [Marxism] Gene Debs

[Mark Lause]

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November 5, btw, became Pope's Day in Boston...an occasion for the North End
and South End gangs to fight over who got to burn the pope's effigy.  In
1764, the shoemaker Ebenezer Macintosh led the South End to an upset
victory, an achievement which led to his key role the following year when
the Stamp Act united the gangs behind the Sons of Liberty in opposition to
the new tax.

ML

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Re: [Marxism] Gene Debs

[Shane Mage]

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>>
>> ML wrote :
>>
>> "Guy Fawkes: the only man to enter Parliament with honest  
>> intentions".
>>
>> That's fucking brilliant.
>>
>> epoliticus
>>
I love the joke, too.   But the history itself is not without  
interest.  Fawkes was a subaltern in a Roman Catholic (or Papist, as  
it was then called) conspiracy, covered by the Earls of Percy and  
Northumberland, to overthrow the Protestant monarchy and restore a  
Papist reign like Bloody Mary's. The plot never had the least chance  
and Fawkes was allowed to get into the cellar of Parliament only  
because Walsingham's intelligence service had soaked the gunpowder so  
it could never explode.  Fawkes was the chosen centerpiece for a show  
trial.

But popular history, as always, had the last laugh.




Shane Mage

"L'après-vie, c'est une auberge espagnole. L'on n'y trouve que ce  
qu'on a apporté."

Bardo Thodol





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Re: [Marxism] Role of the Army

[Intense Red]

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 >> I think Marxists should be in favor of UNIVERSAL military service,
 >> yes, conscription, for everyone-- gays, heteros, confused, whatever--
 >> rather than "volunteer" armies in bourgeois countries.

   At the present time, I agree. If there was a draft in the US today, I 
don't think the US gov't could prosecute the wars it is presently fighting.

 > I think that to be as definitive as this, you'd need to demonstrate that
 > conscript armies under capitalism had proved the undoing of the states
 > that created them. I'm not certain that the evidence exists for that.

   That may be true, but there is evidence that conscript armies can add to 
anti-war movements and help undermine the state (e.g. Vietnam or the 
Portuguese revolt).

   There's no doubt disbanding armies would be preferable, but barring that, 
the burden should be shared rather than allowing the creation of an 
untouchable "professional" military or putting the burden only on certain 
segments of society.

-- 
"Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without 
individual responsibility." -- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary.



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Re: [Marxism] Gene Debs

[Mark Lause]

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There are a number of images likely associated with that poster, though I've
not seen the button.

http://recollectionbooks.com/bleed/images/BB/fawkes.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3c/Fawkes_Political_Poster.jpg
http://www.dreamwidth.org/userpic/493947/466

ML

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Re: [Marxism] Role of the Army

[Dan]

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There is talk about the Paris Commune as an example of units from the
national guard siding with insurgeants.
But do you actually realize that the Paris Commune is a case in point ?
The two months long rebellion was put down BY THE FRENCH ARMY.
They easily surrounded Paris and methodically destroyed any resistance,
neighbourhood by neighbourhood. 
The soldiers involved were nearly all conscripts, 18 to 22 year-olds,
who had barely finished basic military training.
The massacre of rebels lasted five days, and had to be postponed simply
because executing 35 000 people by firing squad put too much of a strain
on resources. Groups of thirty rebels were lined up, shot, another group
was lined up, shot, another group was lined up, shot, and after a series
of twenty such executions by firing squad, the rifles became too hot to
handle. And then they malfunctioned, the hammer consistently failing to
hit the base of the cartridge.This meant that executions of communards
could not proceed at the adequate pace. 
The idea was, in the words of Thiers and the bourgeoisie, "to shoot all
radicals or suspected radicals from working class areas so as to cleanse
Paris from its infection". Initial plans were to execute 125 000 people,
but had to be abandoned because of logistical problems (too costly in
terms of guns, and the risk of disease arising from too many unburied
corpses lying on the streets). So the "conseils de guerre" sentenced
communards to deportation to Guyana and New Caledonia instead, where it
was hoped hard labour and the climate would kill them.
Again, this massacre was carried out be ordinary conscripts, which
explains the opposition of the early CGT to conscription. As WWI grew
closer, the CGT warned that conscripts "are nothing more than cannon
fodder and should desert at the earliest opportunity rather than getting
slaughtered or slaughtering innocent German workers who happen to be
also conscripted by the bourgeoisie of their country".
The radical element of the CGT was arrested at the outbreak of WWI, and
the CGT itself completely disorganized as nationalist sentiment meant
that "class consciousness" was seen as treason by the masses. The same
thing happened with the IWW in America.
So conscription was seen as a great evil by early 20th century
revolutionists. This mindset changed somewhat in the 1920s due to the
influence of the Bolshevik revolution in Russia, but remained strong in
many organizations.
Conscription was seen as the bourgeoisie getting its hands on the entire
youth of the working classes and compelling it to fight for its own
ends.






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Re: [Marxism] Role of the Army

[johnedmundson]

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S.Artesian wrote:

> I think Marxists should be in favor of UNIVERSAL military service, yes,
> conscription, for everyone-- gays, heteros, confused, whatever-- rather than
> "volunteer" armies in bourgeois countries.

I understand the logic of this comment but I'm not sure that I'm convinced by
it. I think that to be as definitive as this, you'd need to demonstrate that
conscript armies under capitalism had proved the undoing of the states that
created them. I'm not certain that the evidence exists for that. The most
obvious example of a huge conscript army going over to the revolution in big
numbers is obviously the Czarist army in 1917. But that army was a relic of
feudalism, down to its aristocratic officer class and its archaic (by early 20th
century terms) structure etc. A decade in Vietnam certainly saw some breakdown
in US military discipline but can we put that down to its conscript nature
rather than its losing the war? I don't know, I'm not an expert on the history
of the US military.

It won't be identical here of course, but in New Zealand, where I live, the army
is a small professional force that prides itself (with some justification
unfortunately) in its skill, efficiency etc. It is overwhelmingly recruited at
the lowest ranks from the working class and is disproportionately Maori, the
indigenous, and economically poorer, part of the population. More officers are
white and university educated, but many NCOs are Maori. The head of the military
is Maori. Many Maori families are multi-generational army families.

We also have a part-time reserve force, the Territorials. I don't know the
social composition of the Terries, but I suspect it's probably not so working
class. The only people I know who have joined it have been at university and
lots of them were utter prats, going on to careers in law etc.

Of course the army's elite force, the SAS, would act as assassins for the state
to the bitter end.

Would the regular army go over to the revolution? I don't know but I'd have more
faith in it doing so than the cops. And I know that if we had a revolutionary
situation and the army did defect en masse, we'd have a huge issue to deal with
in preventing the military from hijacking the revolution. But I remain
unconvinced that any of these issues would be any different if the rank and file
were formally conscripted instead of economically conscripted as is the case 
now.

During WWI, socialists were gaoled for their opposition to conscription. That
was a principled position and I think it was the correct one. By WWII, those
same (now ex) socialists were leading the Labour government and gaoling
opponents of conscription.

I think it's an important question but I don't think it's been resolved to the
degree that S.Artesian assumes.
Cheers,
John


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Re: [Marxism] Role of the Army

[Kenneth Morgan]

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On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 4:09 PM, S. Artesian  wrote:


> " The whole point is to not let the military be separated from the stress
> and
> strains of the class struggle that pervade the rest of society.  That's one
> reason, one big fat reason I think Marxists should be in favor of UNIVERSAL
> military service, yes, conscription, for everyone-- gays, heteros,
> confused,
> whatever-- rather than "volunteer" armies in bourgeois countries."
>
The French socialist Jaures who was murdered in 1914 held similar views. You
can find more on Jaures concept at the Marxist Internet Archives. If you
make allowances for changes in technology his views aren't that off the
wall. The universal conscription works if it's for a citizens militia, that
is active duty time only enough time for training, which today would average
4 or 5 months except for some of the more technical specialties, followed by
an extended time on reserve status with refresher training courses. Probably
the best contemporary examples are the Swiss, Swedish and Finnish models.
Even so, due to cut backs in the military since the end of the cold war,
Switzerland and Sweden are inducting far less than the 60% of the manpower
pool prior to 1990. There is debate in Sweden now about abandoning the
historical citizens militia concept and going to an all volunteer force. A
minority position to be sure.

If universal conscription is for longer term service 2 to 4 years, then
we're looking at something entireley different. The reason longer term
service was initiated, especially by the Prussians, was to make the troops
more amenable to following orders and more likely to fire on their own
people, as oppossed to increasing competency. Even so, history shows that
even for 2-4 year service, an army made up of a majority of conscripts is
more likely to be won over by revolutionaries than an all volunteer force.

One of the problems with the military draft in the US was that the active
duty military and reserves only needed 32% of the available manpower pool
every year prior to the Vietnam War.  Even during the Vietnam War this
increased only to 47%, still less than half. Mental and physical exemption
in the US only amounted to around 30% of the manpower pool.

>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Dan" 
>
>
> 
> Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu
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>

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Re: [Marxism] Role of the Army

[Marv Gandall]

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Here's one Marine Corps Major General I'd be prepared to posthumously absolve:

"I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that 
period I spent most of my time as a high class thug for Big Business, for Wall 
Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. 
I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 
1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank 
boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central 
American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua 
for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902–1912. I brought 
light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I 
helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China 
in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. 
Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could 
do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three 
continents."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler






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Re: [Marxism] Role of the Army

[S. Artesian]

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Those are very good points about the transformation of the military with the 
emergence of mercantile capitalism... and I think if we follow through on 
that transformation into the 19th century and 20th century, we can see the 
military transformed into a national institution, one embodying the class 
contradictions within itself.

Does or can the whole military go over to the revolution, which I think is 
the pint you are raising about centralized command and other units being 
available to put down rebel units?  Maybe no, maybe yes.  But really, does 
the entire WORKING CLASS go over to the revolution prior to a section, a big 
section, actually executes, actualizes the revolution?  Maybe yes, maybe 
no... but in most cases probably not.

Samey-same as we used to say back in the day.

 The whole point is to not let the military be separated from the stress and 
strains of the class struggle that pervade the rest of society.  That's one 
reason, one big fat reason I think Marxists should be in favor of UNIVERSAL 
military service, yes, conscription, for everyone-- gays, heteros, confused, 
whatever-- rather than "volunteer" armies in bourgeois countries.



- Original Message - 
From: "Dan"  



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Re: [Marxism] Gene Debs

[Gary MacLennan]

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>
>
>
> ML wrote :
>
> "Guy Fawkes: the only man to enter Parliament with honest intentions".
>
> That's fucking brilliant.
>
> epoliticus
>


>  I used to have a great poster featuring that slogan.  I kept it on my
> office door.  Then one day it vanished.  I like to think it was pinched by
> an anarchist.  As in "All property is theft!"


comradely

Gary

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Re: [Marxism] Role of the Army

[Dan]

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Artesian,

I hold your views in great esteem, and I believe that as Marxists, we
share a dialectical understanding of how concrete history comes into
being. We also eschew idealist categories.
You criticize my claim that the present category of 'armed forces' can
be traced back to the 16th century. I deliberately chose that arbitrary
era in my post to suggest that this institution was formed as a result
of the emergence both of the concept of the nation-state and of the
growth in mercantile capitalism. Although one may point to the Hundred
Years war as such a pivotal moment with the apparition of gunpowder (or
even the Crusades with the apparition of private funding for armies by
bankers), I think that the 16th century saw a) mass recruitment into
"national armies" b) the discovery of the Americas and Ottoman expansion
into mainland Europe c) disastrous civil wars between Catholics and
Protestants leading to the dichotomy between an "official" army and
"insurgents" d) the practice of paying soldiers a wage as distinct from
simply "letting them plunder" e) an incredible increase in the power of
firearms, meaning proficiency with a sword became unnecessary.
Of course 17th century armies, 18th century armies, Napoleonic armies
(mass conscription !), 20th century armies all have their distinctive
characteristics.
You are right of course when you say that it is a question of
dialectical moment and mediation. Of course the army primarily consists
of members of the proletariat. Of course, class struggle exists within
the armed forces of a nation.
But my contention is, the very nature of a modern (16th - 20th century)
army, its very structure, is precisely designed to prevent a given unit
from fraternizing with malcontents or deserting en masse.
If one unit rebels against its commanding officer, another one will be
charged with putting down the rebels.
The whole point of having a modern defense force is having different
units obeying one single command centre. 
And this command centre will never cease to exist. It may become
Marxist-Leninist in Russia, or Nazi in Germany, or Nationalist in
Serbia, or pro-Yankee in Argentina, it doesn't change the nature of the
institution.
So while some emancipation movements may receive weapons from some units
in the army, the command centre will make sure the army as a whole
doesn't disintegrate and that the new power structure will have an army
at its disposal. The reproduction of the armed forces as a category
implies the existence of a contradiction between the working class and a
group trying to yield power over the working class. This basic
contradiction stems from the nature and structure of the armed forces.
In the case of popular militias, that are genuinely directed by workers'
councils, the contradiction is resolved. Otherwise, it remains in full
view of everyone in society.






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Re: [Marxism] Lincoln Elected 150 Years Ago This Day

[Mark Lause]

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Sorry.  Saying you'd vote for Lincoln and being in a Lincoln cult aren't the
same thing.

Saying you think Marx had the right idea doesn't mean that your a member of
some Marx cult either.

ML

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Re: [Marxism] Lincoln Elected 150 Years Ago This Day

[C. G. Estabrook]

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http://newsfromneptune.com/2009/02/13/lincoln-cult-february-2008/

On 11/6/10 12:41 PM, S. Artesian wrote:
> Yes, I guess it takes events 150 years in the past for Nestor and myself to
> agree on something.. but indeed read everything you can about Lincoln, the
> Civil War, and the changes in Lincoln's thoughts about race, class and the
> US, and IMO the conclusion is inescapable:
>
> Lincoln-- the only decent president in US history.
> Lincoln--the only decent man to be elected president.
> Lincoln's government-- the only government in US history worthy of support
> by Marxists.
>
> The Civil War-- the only war worth fighting, necessary to fight, in US
> history [yes, including the war for independence].
>


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Re: [Marxism] Role of the Army

[S. Artesian]

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See?  History shows us the way...

- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Lause" 
To: 


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Re: [Marxism] Role of the Army

[Mark Lause]

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Hmm.  Not just the Kronstadt rebles, but the Communards.  The soul of the
Commune were the troops that had defended Paris against the Prussians
The International not only had members in the army but provided some of the
leading military figures to those risings  And I don't just mean the
Marxists but the followers of Proudhon and Bakunin as well

ML

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Re: [Marxism] Constant Capital and the Crisis in Contemporary Capitalism: Echoes from the Late Nineteenth Century

[S. Artesian]

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I quite liked the paper... the point you make about fixed costs and marginal 
costs is critical, and I might suggest you show that Marx makes that same 
exact point although in different iterations.  For one, I think in the 
Economic Manuscripsts of 1857-1864 [wish I could remember specifically in 
which manuscript] Marx talks about the reduction in the variance between the 
capitalists' production costs and the prices of production as a result of 
the increase of constant capital, particularly fixed capital, thus squeezing 
the area available for "arbitraging" that difference, for realizing a profit 
from surplus value despite the increase in surplus value.

For another, Marx talks about how the slowing down in return, the 
lengthening of the time of return in areas where fixed capital has grown 
larger is a phenomenom general to capital and not just confined to 
agriculture.

And you might want to look at the period of the long deflation for the 
paroxysms precipitated by the expansion of the machine component of 
production.


- Original Message - 
From: "michael perelman" http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com

Re: [Marxism] Role of the Army

[Kenneth Morgan]

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On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Dan  wrote:

>
> "And thus, they are seen as being in a central position to unleash a
> revolution, since they have access to weapons and are basically
> alienated workers.
> This view, that is the main-stream view of the military on this list
> judging by the posts from Manuel Barrera to Louis Proyect to S.
> Artesian, is diametrically opposed to the views espoused by most
> militant revolutionary unions in the early 20th century.""
>
The Soviets in 1917 Russia included representatives from nearby Army
garrisons and Navy bases. Are you saying this was a mistake.? There was a
scene in Trotsky's "History of the Russian Revolution" when the police
overcome by a crowd of protestors calls in the Cossack cavalry for
assistance. The Cossack commander orders his troops, "Charge the police!"
Should the crowd of protestors waved off the Cossacks and called out, "we
don't want your help?"

Was it wrong for anti Vietnam War activists in the US to try to reach out to
those in  the military at the time? During the 1979 revolution in Iran I
remember seeing a news cast showing Iranian soldiers deserting over to the
crowd with their weapons. Should their assistance been refused?


> .I remember reading in the mainstream press, in 1968, that the reason
> DeGaulle relied on the police and CRS, the paramilitary riot police, was
> because we wasn't sure if he could trust the conscript troops of the French
> Army. At the other extreme  US regular army was used to help put down the
> 1877 and 1894 strikes rail strikes The movie, "Revolt in Patagonia" shows
> the army at it's worse as an anti-worker constabulary.


The common demoninator of an army breaking with it's role as a agency of
repression seems to be if there is some sort of mass movement in opposition
to government policies, and if the army is made up of a significant
percentage of conscripts.



>
>
>
>
>
> 
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Re: [Marxism] Role of the Army

[S. Artesian]

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Wait a minute, Dan, you're the guy who asked, rhetorically:  "What has 
changed since then in the social origin of most soldiers ?"  With the "then" 
referring to the early 20th century when the "most militant unions" 
identified the enlisted ranks of soldiers with the institution of the 
military, thus declaring all soldiers immediately and irrevocably "class 
enemies."

And you answered, rhetorically, "Nothing at all"  meaning I guess that there 
can be no possibility, no reason for organizing in the military along class 
lines, in posing the soldiers against the officer corps.

Now you say, "Well, Louis, the position of the Kronstadt rebels (or the 
Makhnovtshitshina army, or the CNT militias) is not the same as that of  the 
armed forces of an industrialized nation from the 16th century  onwards."

So which is it?  Nothing has changed?  Something has changed?  Something was 
always different about soldiers in Russia?

There's way too much confusion in what you post-- not the least of which is 
this talk about "the armed forces of an industrialized nation from the 16th 
century onwards."  I know of no country that qualifies as industrialized in 
the 16th, or the 17th centuries.  Hell, I don't even know of any country 
that had a public military in the 16th century-- public institution as 
organized, funded, staffed, manned publicly, although that just might be a 
reflection of my own ignorance.

The sailors and soldiers of the Kronstadt garrison did not first, or only 
revolt in 1921, but had led rebellions in 1905, and again in 1917--  
organizing and electing soviets in each instance, so... if they're the class 
enemy... all I can say is I wish we had many many more.  As a matter of fact 
with enemies like that, who needs friends?  And... just as the working class 
supports bourgeois property relations until that moment when it no longer 
does, those soldiers and sailors of Kronstadt obeyed orders until they no 
longer did.  The point is the transition from one to the other-- how are 
those transitions made; how does the class origin and needs of the sailors 
get organized against those needs of the military as a bourgeois 
institution.  Without transitions-- "becoming," "mediation"-- there's 
nothing .

 From: "Dan" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2010 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Marxism] Role of the Army




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Re: [Marxism] Constant Capital and the Crisis in Contemporary Capitalism: Echoes from the Late Nineteenth Century

[michael perelman]

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Thank you very much for your question. Looking at the paper, I see
that I did not make the connection very clearly. Here's what's going
on:  increasing capital intensity generally puts the cost of plant and
equipment beyond the means of an individual person. The most rapid
period of growth of the stock market in United States came with the
expansion of railroads. The market values of financial assets becomes
dependent upon speculative behavior, leading to a disconnect between
the financial system and the underlying real economy. The resulting
fictitious values give signals to capital that eventually create
crises.

On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Serhiy Kutnii  wrote:
>
> The part about the connection between constant
> capital and financialization seems too short and thus a bit obscure.
>
-- 
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA
95929

530 898 5321
fax 530 898 5901
http://michaelperelman.wordpress.com


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Re: [Marxism] Role of the Army

[Dan]

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So let's refine our definitions.
Most working people will define an army as a group of heavily armed men,
directed through a tight hierarchical structure by "those in a position
of power".
The army will execute any order it is given, however horrific, and will
ensure that those who decide how surplus-value is extracted and
distributed remain in control.
Therefore, members of an army are enemies of those who produce
surplus-value. They are paid from the surplus-value extracted. They
ultimately oppose any rising of the working class, although, in
situations of social upheaval, middle-ranking officers can decide on who
will be in charge.
"Revolutions" spearhead by an army tend to be dismal failures as the
hierarchical nature of the armed forces soon becomes an obstacle to a
working class trying to become an agent of its own destiny.






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Re: [Marxism] Role of the Army

[Louis Proyect]

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On 11/6/10 4:45 PM, Dan wrote:
> Well, Louis, the position of the Kronstadt rebels (or the
> Makhnovtshitshina army, or the CNT militias) is not the same as that of
> the armed forces of an industrialized nation from the 16th century
> onwards.
>
> Just look at what happened to the Kronstadt mutineers : they were
> slaughtered by Trotsky who personaly supervised their anihilation.

Yawn.


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Re: [Marxism] Constant Capital and the Crisis in Contemporary Capitalism: Echoes from the Late Nineteenth Century

[Serhiy Kutnii]

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The part about the connection between constant
capital and financialization seems too short and thus a bit obscure.

Can you please explain it in more detail or suggest relevant
literature if it exists? What's the mechanism of such a connection?


On Sat, Nov 6, 2010 at 9:51 PM, michael perelman
 wrote:
> ==
> Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> ==
>
>
> "Constant Capital and the Crisis in Contemporary Capitalism: Echoes from
> the Late Nineteenth Century" looks at the current crisis in light of how
> economists showed a superior understanding of the way the economy worked
> during the late nineteenth century.
>
> http://users.ntua.gr/jea/tua/journl/jea_volume1_issue1_pp34_41.pdf
> Comments would be very much appreciated.
>
> --
> Michael Perelman
> Economics Department
> California State University
> Chico, CA
> 95929
>
> 530 898 5321
> fax 530 898 5901
> http://michaelperelman.wordpress.com
>
> 
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>


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Re: [Marxism] South Africa on a roller coaster

[glparramatta]

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See also South Africa: What would Chris Hani say today? | Links 
International Journal of Socialist Renewal

http://links.org.au/node/1966

With interesting comments following



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Re: [Marxism] Role of the Army

[Dan]

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Well, Louis, the position of the Kronstadt rebels (or the
Makhnovtshitshina army, or the CNT militias) is not the same as that of
the armed forces of an industrialized nation from the 16th century
onwards.

Just look at what happened to the Kronstadt mutineers : they were
slaughtered by Trotsky who personaly supervised their anihilation.

They were indeed soldiers in a garison city. But they were increasingly
dissatisfied with the way the Bolshevik revolution was heading from 1920
onwards. They felt that the Bolsheviks were purpousefuly subverting the
Soviets and preventing the people from organizing to make their will be
known. Their basic mistake was that they thought that since they had
already contributed to the Russian Revolution (naval bombing of the
Winter Palace), they could not be considered as
"counter-revolutionaries" and that they could gather support fromp
Russian peasants and workers. This proved a mistake, as Trotsky simply
destroyed Kronstadt and then created countless lies ("Kronstadt is
financed by Great Britain", "Kronstadt soldiers are manipulated by White
generals", etc.) which were then repeated ad infinitum by all the CPs in
the world.
So the Kronstadt rebels lost.
But they were not in the same league as the infantry divisions of the
REd Army sent to massacre them. They did not obey orders. They elected
their own officers. In fact, they had NOTHING in common with a 20th
century army obeying commands.
I don't see the connection between a generalized hatred of the armed
forces in early 20th century radical unions and Kronstadt.





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[Marxism] Our Big, Fat, Invisible Wars

[Dennis Brasky]

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*Our Big, Fat, Invisible Wars *
Jon Letman, Truthout: "One can only assume that the White House offered
[Jon] Stewart a one-on-one with Obama on the condition that there was to be
absolutely no mention of the wars, the troops, terror threats, predator
drones, Guantanamo, the Taliban, al-Qaeda, Iran, North Korea or anything
with even the slightest whiff of war."


http://www.truth-out.org/our-big-fat-invisible-wars64846

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Re: [Marxism] "The US to Gaza Initiative and the Hillel Controversy at Rutgers"

[Dan]

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The Sionist youth group "Hillel Campus International" is named after
Hillel the Elder (flourished around a century before Jesus Christ).

Poor Hillel the Elder ! He who, according to fragmentary accounts,
espoused the "Golden Rule" later ascribed to Jesus : "Do unto others as
you would have them do unto you", or in Hillel's own words : "That which
is hateful to you, do not do to fellow human beings. That is the whole
Torah, the rest is the explanation. If you do not understand this : go
and learn."

Would he have been surprised to discover that a group bearing his name
would have as a motto : "Wherever we stand, we stand with Israel" ?

This might not be the post to delve deeper into 1st century BC religious
life in Palestine, but it is clear that "Christianity" is an outcome of
this period.
Actually, the more scholars search this period, the more confusing the
conditions leading to the 2nd AD emergence of Christianity become. There
are now so many different factors, ranging from widespread survival of
paganism (Baal and Ashperot yearly agricultural resurrection cults) in
Israel, to recent discoveries (2009) of 1st century AD stone
inscriptions propethizing the end of the world and the coming of a
messiah (zealot mouvement), to new evidence of a very late (2nd century
AD) final redaction date for the gospels...  
The overall picture just keeps getting messier...

Just like the 2010 discovery of interbreeding between Neanderthals and
Homo Sapiens (through examination of mDNA) makes the overall picture of
our species increasingly complex.
Simplistic models keep getting battered by sophisticated examination. As
though reality refused to let us cling to "clear cut" evaluations of our
own history (the "out of Africa" model has now been emended to 2-3 waves
of immigration and gene transfer from isolated population pockets, which
does not mean it is incorrect, just that the overall picture is
incredibly more complex.) 
On the subject of "origins" (investigation on the factors contributing
to a given structure), let's be humble and acknowledge that history and
its individual agents is as complex as inter-personal relationships in
the modern world.





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[Marxism] Constant Capital and the Crisis in Contemporary Capitalism: Echoes from the Late Nineteenth Century

[michael perelman]

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"Constant Capital and the Crisis in Contemporary Capitalism: Echoes from 
the Late Nineteenth Century" looks at the current crisis in light of how 
economists showed a superior understanding of the way the economy worked 
during the late nineteenth century.

http://users.ntua.gr/jea/tua/journl/jea_volume1_issue1_pp34_41.pdf
Comments would be very much appreciated.

-- 
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA
95929

530 898 5321
fax 530 898 5901
http://michaelperelman.wordpress.com


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Re: [Marxism] Role of the Army

[Louis Proyect]

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On 11/6/10 3:32 PM, Dan wrote:
> According to the pre-1914 CGT (an openly Anarcho-syndicalist union), the
> Spanish CNT, the Swedish SAC, the Agentinian FORA, the Italian USI, and
> I believe the American IWW, members of the military were seen as enemies
> of the working class.

Except of course when it came to the Kronstadt Rebellion when the 
sailors and soldiers were good friends of the working class.



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[Marxism] "The US to Gaza Initiative and the Hillel Controversy at Rutgers"

[Dennis Brasky]

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> By Deepa Kumar
>
> Last night I attended a fundraiser for the US to Gaza mission that intends
> to bring humanitarian aid to the people of Gaza. It was an incredible
> success. About 150-200 mostly young people had crowded the hall, most of
> whom stayed on past 10 pm to listen to the invited speakers. The presence of
> so many students who had chosen to attend the event despite intimidation by
> those claiming to represent Rutgers Hillel was truly heartening. Colonel Ann
> Wright, who was one of the featured speakers, said that this was one of the
> largest and most well attended of such fundraising events she has been to.
> Hillel's line of attack was predictable. In a press release Andrew Getraer,
> the executive director of Rutger's Hillel, argued that there were "serious
> legal issues" involved. First on the list was the claim that the "blockade
> runners will attempt to deliver goods, services or technical assistance to
> Hamas, a designated Foreign Terrorist Organization (FTO)." This is a
> standard rhetorical ploy: trot out the bogeyman of Hamas in order to obscure
> and paper over the horrendous conditions under which Palestinian people in
> Gaza live. In fact, the press release does not once make reference to these
> conditions and why it is so urgent and important to raise money for this
> humanitarian crisis. Instead, it asserts that "Hillel is vehemently opposed
> to this event."
>
> Full article --
>
>
>
> http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2010/kumar051110.html
>
>

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Re: [Marxism] Role of the Army

[Dan]

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So this is an (unforeseen, by me) major difference between the Marxist
Leninist and the Anarcho-Syndicalist tradition.
According to the pre-1914 CGT (an openly Anarcho-syndicalist union), the
Spanish CNT, the Swedish SAC, the Agentinian FORA, the Italian USI, and
I believe the American IWW, members of the military were seen as enemies
of the working class. It was clearly understood that soldiers came from
working class backgrounds, attracted by pay and opportunities. But
immediately upon enlisting they also became class enemies, that the
bourgeoisie would send to quell major revolts in any industrial area.
Now, according to the reactions on this list, the traditional early
20th-century Anarcho-syndicalist view of the armed forces is no longer
relevant.
They are to be seen as erring members of the proletariat, whose
allegiances can be shifted through propaganda.
And thus, they are seen as being in a central position to unleash a
revolution, since they have access to weapons and are basically
alienated workers.
This view, that is the main-stream view of the military on this list
judging by the posts from Manuel Barrera to Louis Proyect to S.
Artesian, is diametrically opposed to the views espoused by most
militant revolutionary unions in the early 20th century.
The French CGT "will not accept a soldier in its ranks", the CNT "
refuses to let members of the repressive forces, i.e. policemen,
soldiers and prison wardens join the union"...
What has changed since then in the social origin of most soldiers ?
Nothing at all ! They are still, the common servicemen, representatives
of the most downtrodden sections of the proletariat.
So the change in perception must come from a change in the way
revolutionaries since the 1940s see the army.
WWII must be the explanation for this change in perspective. The
"People's Great War" must have led to a greater degree of regard for
members of the Armed forces who selflessly laid down their lives for the
rest of us.
Whether this paradigm is still of any use to Marxists generally is a
question that merits debate... Especially in view of the increasing
privatization of the Armed Forces and Police Froces in industrialized
countries.






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Re: [Marxism] Gene Debs

[Mark Lause]

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The social democrats of one stripe or another used to hold regular events at
the Debs house.  I think it's a good idea.

However, it is like many similarly preserved historic buildings that reside
on or next to a university campus.  (Hull House at the University of
Illinois-Chicago comes immediately to mind).  People don't generally make
pilgrimages to such places and might drop in if they're on the campus for
some other purpose...a conference, for example.

And, yes, most of those we'll pop in at the Debs House are more going to
likely be foreign visitors to the campus.

ML

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Re: [Marxism] Gene Debs

[Manuel Barrera]

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Jay Moore observed: "That's very sad indeed.  We need to "restore" Debs to an 
honored place in American (and World) History.  Nick Salvatore's recent 
biography is a good intro to Debs's life and works."



Here's a thought, why doesn't the UNAC or some socialist campaign, or some 
other "national movement activity" hold its next conference or initiate its 
campaign from Debs' museum in Terre Haute? It would be actually appropriate, 
even "good theatre" to do so with the museum as it is in disrepair. We could 
have a "mass signing" of the book as part of the action/conference/event. One 
could even take up donations to help in the museum restoration--a symbolic 
"restoring of socialism in America" if you will.

Manuel

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[Marxism] Outside the Law

[Louis Proyect]

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Written and directed by Rachid Bouchareb, “Outside the Law” (Hors La 
Loi) is a revisionist take on the Algerian war of independence. In 
contrast to “The Battle of Algiers”, this is not anti-imperialist 
agit-prop. Instead it is a cautionary tale about the costs of fighting 
total war against the colonizers, in some ways echoing the pacifist 
laments of Albert Camus.

full: http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2010/11/06/outside-the-law/


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Re: [Marxism] Lincoln Elected 150 Years Ago This Day

[Shane Mage]

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On Nov 6, 2010, at 1:14 PM, C. G. Estabrook wrote:
>
> I think you should reconsider your support for Lincoln.
>
> Read, if you haven't, William Marvel, /Mr. Lincoln Goes to War/  
> (2006).

A book that can indeed be judged by its cover (where the title is  
displayed).  Mr. Lincoln didn't go to war--the war went to him.




Shane Mage


  This cosmos did none of gods or men make, but it
  always was and is and shall be: an everlasting fire,
  kindling in measures and going out in measures."

  Herakleitos of Ephesos





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Re: [Marxism] Lincoln Elected 150 Years Ago This Day

[S. Artesian]

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Yes, I guess it takes events 150 years in the past for Nestor and myself to 
agree on something.. but indeed read everything you can about Lincoln, the 
Civil War, and the changes in Lincoln's thoughts about race, class and the 
US, and IMO the conclusion is inescapable:

Lincoln-- the only decent president in US history.
Lincoln--the only decent man to be elected president.
Lincoln's government-- the only government in US history worthy of support 
by Marxists.

The Civil War-- the only war worth fighting, necessary to fight, in US 
history [yes, including the war for independence].





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Re: [Marxism] Lincoln Elected 150 Years Ago This Day

[Mark Lause]

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Lincoln was the only chief executive the U.S. ever had who presided over a
serious radical change.  So the process was always going to be complex and
require continual independent agitation and activism.

But I'd compare him favorably to any of the modern darlings of the
"progressives," including FDR.

ML

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Re: [Marxism] Lincoln Elected 150 Years Ago This Day

[Néstor Gorojovsky]

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On the contrary: read "The Real Lincoln", by some neoliberal historian
whose name I don´t remember now, and you will support Lincoln against
any odds.

2010/11/6 C. G. Estabrook :
> ==
> Rule #1: YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message.
> ==
>
>
> I think you should reconsider your support for Lincoln.
>
> Read, if you haven't, William Marvel, /Mr. Lincoln Goes to War/ (2006).
>
> On 11/6/10 11:54 AM, Mark Lause wrote:
>> The other day, I was off on an election year rant about the present
>> administration and its phony baloney "opposition."  One of the listeners on
>> whom this rant was sadly inflicted looked at me and asked, "So who's the
>> last person elected president that you'd have supported?"
>>
>> Well, 150 years isn't that long a time, I guess.  :-)
>>
> 
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-- 

Néstor Gorojovsky
El texto principal de este correo puede no ser de mi autoría


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Re: [Marxism] Lincoln Elected 150 Years Ago This Day

[C. G. Estabrook]

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I think you should reconsider your support for Lincoln.

Read, if you haven't, William Marvel, /Mr. Lincoln Goes to War/ (2006).

On 11/6/10 11:54 AM, Mark Lause wrote:
> The other day, I was off on an election year rant about the present
> administration and its phony baloney "opposition."  One of the listeners on
> whom this rant was sadly inflicted looked at me and asked, "So who's the
> last person elected president that you'd have supported?"
>
> Well, 150 years isn't that long a time, I guess.  :-)
>

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Re: [Marxism] Lincoln Elected 150 Years Ago This Day

[Mark Lause]

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The other day, I was off on an election year rant about the present
administration and its phony baloney "opposition."  One of the listeners on
whom this rant was sadly inflicted looked at me and asked, "So who's the
last person elected president that you'd have supported?"

Well, 150 years isn't that long a time, I guess.  :-)

ML

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[Marxism] Lincoln Elected 150 Years Ago This Day

[Rustbelt Radical]

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New Post: Lincoln Elected 150 Years Ago This Day
http://rustbeltradical.wordpress.com/2010/11/06/lincoln-elected-150-years-ago-this-day/
   

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Re: [Marxism] South Africa on a roller coaster

[Louis Proyect]

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http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/index.php/news/content/view/full/97299

Features
South African politics descend into turmoil
Friday 05 November 2010
John Haylett

Relations between South Africa's trade unions and sections of the ruling 
African National Congress plumbed new depths this week following a 
union-initiated Civil Society conference.

Last weekend's conference was organised by trade union federation Cosatu 
and human rights bodies Section 27 and the Treatment Action Campaign (TAC).

Over 50 independent organisations took part, debating how to encourage 
community-based activism to achieve social justice and improve poor 
people's lives.

So far so uncontroversial, but the organisers had agreed to make the 
conference non-party-political, which meant that neither the ANC nor the 
South African Communist Party was invited to take part.

The SACP didn't comment on this, but the ANC national working committee, 
which met last Monday, went bananas.

ANC secretary general Gwede Mantashe, who is also SACP chairman and a 
former miners' union leader, suggested that the conference could be the 
first step in setting up something akin to Zimbabwe's Movement for 
Democratic Change or Zambia's Movement for Multiparty Democracy.

He warned that forming a civil society movement outside the tripartite 
alliance could be "interpreted as the initiation of regime change in SA."

Mantashe recalled that, when the Congress of the People (Cope) splinter 
had broken away from the ANC, "we raised the consistent efforts made in 
the region by powerful international forces to weaken the liberation 
movements."

In response, Cosatu general secretary Zwelinzima Vavi said: "I don't 
know why they are paranoid, but we do not regret the conference. There 
is no reason for the ANC to be upset."

Vavi explained that the new initiative would focus on delivery of 
government education, health and job creation programmes.

"We are now getting a role for civil society to play in line with the 
ANC slogan, 'The people shall govern'," he added.

The Cosatu leader stated categorically that "we are not an anti-ANC and 
anti-government coalition. We are not here to begin a process to form 
any political party, nor to advance the interest of any individual."

Cosatu president Sidumo Dlamini added that the agenda was not "to weaken 
the democratic movement, the alliance or the government. On the 
contrary, it is meant to strengthen it.

"These organisations have learnt from their own struggles and victories 
about the benefits of working with the democratic government and to 
concurrently confront and challenge it when it cannot listen."

TAC chairperson Nonkosi Khumalo and Section 27 executive director Mark 
Heywood expressed their surprise at "the insinuations that the 
conference is part of a plot against the ANC."

They characterised the ANC national working committee attitude as 
"reminiscent of the paranoia of the Mbeki era. It is a conduct that 
suggests the ANC, or some of the people who hide under its flag, have 
something to fear."

Vavi was, as ever, outspoken at the conference, returning to well-worn 
and, arguably, well-justified themes of corruption within leading ANC 
circles.

He hammered "predators and hyenas," who were obsessed with amassing 
personal wealth at the expense of the poor.

Once again, this struck a raw nerve among some ANC leaders, not least 
Youth League president Julius Malema, who had been a guest at a lavish 
birthday party laid on by wealthy Johannesburg businessman Kenny Kunene 
at a nightclub he owns.

Half-naked young women, painted grey, were a feature of the party, which 
also involved one woman draped over a table where party-goers were 
invited to eat sushi from her bare stomach, in between quaffing Dom 
Perignon, Cristal and Moet & Chandon champagnes and Chivaz Regal whisky.

"It is the sight of these parties, where the elite display their wealth, 
often secured by questionable methods, that turns my stomach," said Vavi.

Kunene responded that, if Vavi cared so much for the poor, he should 
stop wearing "high-collar designer shirts," adding: "Why don't you sell 
your house and live in a shack?"

Malema accused Vavi of doing the opposition Democratic Alliance's work 
for it, insisting that there was nothing wrong with being a capitalist.

"They want you to remain poor and die poor and, once you've died, poor 
people will see that there is no need to join this organisation. We have 
no reason to apologise. We are young. We will never apologise for 
partying. It is our responsibility."

Cosatu deputy president Zingiswa Losi took up the cudgels with Vavi 
against Kunene and Malema.

"They condemn themselves out of their own mouths and have exposed to the 
world the rotten, immoral wor

[Marxism] Profits or prosperity?

[Louis Proyect]

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Profits or Prosperity?

Data on US profits for the second quarter of this year are well worth 
studying, not only for what they say about the health of the corporate 
sector, but also for what they reveal about the structure of our 
economic system and the priorities of our policy makers.

Commerce Department figures show that after-tax profits rose 3.9% from 
the first quarter and a staggering 26.5% from the same quarter in 2009. 
This year-to-year percentage growth is the highest ever recorded by the 
Commerce Department without factoring for inflation. (The figure is even 
more impressive given that virtually none of the growth is due to 
inflation over the last year!)

Perhaps even more telling is the percentage of national income accounted 
for by profits. Well over 9% of national income in the second quarter of 
2010 counted as profits, the 3rd highest portion since 1947. 
Interestingly, the percentage of national income was only marginally 
higher in two quarters of 2006 when the unemployment rate was 4.6% at 
the peak of the last economic expansion.

Analyzing the data, The Wall Street Journal (10-4-10) concluded that 
those corporations making up the Standard and Poor’s top 500 
corporations – the core of monopoly capital – actually grew by 38%, 
returning $189 billion or 15.6% of all after-tax profit.

WSJ analysts underline the profit trends by noting that profits are up 
10% over 2008 though revenues are down 6%. Monopoly corporations now 
make 8.4 cents on every dollar of revenue, when they made only 7 cents 
on every dollar in 2008.

The Winners’ Circle

For corporations, the numbers are spectacular. They indicate a complete 
recovery of the profit momentum lost in 2008 and 2009. Since the early 
1980’s, after-tax profits - as a percentage of total national income - 
have marched upward and onward, indicating that more of the wealth 
created in the US has been distributed to the corporate sector. At the 
beginning of the 1980’s, less than 5% of national income found its way 
to corporations as profits. Today, that percentage appropriated by 
corporations, especially monopoly corporations, has increased to nearly 10%.

full: http://zzs-blg.blogspot.com/2010/10/profits-or-prosperity.html


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[Marxism] South Africa on a roller coaster

[Louis Proyect]

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http://www.forumdesalternatives.org/EN/readarticle.php?article_id=8944
South Africa in 2010: A history that must happen

Trevor Ngwane | pambazuka.org
THE ROLLER COASTER COUNTRY

South Africa is a country on a roller coaster to disaster. A recent 
paper[pdf] written by the leadership of the Congress of South African 
Trade Unions (COSATU) attests to this. While the paper argues that the 
country is at a crossroads, a close reading reveals a deep anxiety and 
even panic among union leaders who are very worried and suggest that the 
country is heading towards crisis. I would say South Africa is already 
in crisis and unless there is a drastic and sharp turn to the left, the 
wheels are going to come off the roller coaster.

What is exciting about a roller coaster ride is its hurtling speed and 
unpredictability, simultaneously evoking feelings of exhilaration and 
fear. That is how it feels like living in this country these days. In 
the last couple of months or so, for example, one moment people were 
giddy with excitement as South Africa hosted the World Cup in June 2010. 
The government pulled out all the stops to make a success of the event: 
Nothing was allowed to stand in the way of achieving a successful 
hosting with up to R70 billion (US$9.6 billion) of public money spent. 
Hardly a month later, health, education and other essential government 
services ground to a halt as 1.3 million public sector workers went on 
strike demanding a living wage. The government pleaded poverty but this 
was not convincing and the strike went on for three weeks, with dire 
consequences for ordinary people: Babies dying for want of medical care, 
students worried sick as they lost valuable time preparing for high 
school exit exams, families at a loss as government morgues failed to 
release the bodies of deceased loved ones for burial, and so on. The 
common humanity and collective excitement that was shared during the 
World Cup was replaced by anger and fear as the strike turned violent. 
It was as if it was not the same country.

The strike by government employees was the culmination of a year of 
heightened protests and strikes that had gripped the country beginning 
immediately after the April 2009 national elections, which saw Jacob 
Zuma of the African National Congress (ANC) become president of the 
country. Many would find the analogy of a roller coaster appropriate to 
describe Zuma’s rise to power. Indeed, during his campaign to become ANC 
president, he was described by his supporters as an unstoppable tsunami. 
But it was touch and go all the way to the high seat for Zuma. At one 
point he faced fraud, money laundering and a spate of other 
corruption-related charges, which he miraculously escaped, including 
getting an acquittal after a lengthy and much-publicised rape court 
trial. His accomplice in the corruption charges, Schabir Shaik, received 
a 15-year jail sentence, which – surprise surprise – he is serving in 
the comfort of his own home after receiving parole for being [terminally 
ill]. May he live long.

(clip)


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Re: [Marxism] Gene Debs

[Jay Moore]

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Somebody I know made a recent pilgrimage to the Debs home in Terre 
Haute, Indiana.  It's preserved as a museum but showed signs of serious 
neglect.  Upon checking the guest register, he discovered that he had 
been the only visitor in some time and past visitors were mainly 
foreigners.  That's very sad indeed.  We need to "restore" Debs to an 
honored place in American (and World) History.  Nick Salvatore's recent 
biography is a good intro to Debs's life and works.  There is a movie 
but it's pretty poor -- made by Bernie Sanders before he found his true 
"talent" as politician.  Bernie used to have a portrait of Debs on the 
wall in his office when he was mayor of Burlington, Vermont in the early 
1980s.  I wonder about now.

jay
>
> I guess as a result of the hustle and bustle of every day life we almost
> forgot today is the 155th anniversary of the birth of a true working class
> hero, Eugene Victor Debs (1855-1926). Who else could get 3.4% of the popular
> vote for President of the United States, as a write in candidate while
> confined to a federal prison? If you're looking for someone to lift a glass
> to tonight, you might consider toasting the memory of Gene Debs.
> 
>



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Re: [Marxism] Gene Debs

[Politicus E.]

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ML wrote :

"Guy Fawkes: the only man to enter Parliament with honest intentions".

That's fucking brilliant.

epoliticus


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