Re: mc^2 news (august 2016)

[Mooffie]

On 8/17/16, Yury V. Zaytsev  wrote:
> I hope that my efforts in trying to find an employer
> who would be ready to sponsor some work on mc at least
> on the scale of several hours per week have now finally
> borne fruit

I very much hope so.

It amazes me that the Linux ecosystem (and similar OSs), under which
flourish gazillion of companies, don't help in this.

Perhaps people just aren't aware of the situation. Before I came here
I assumed there was some "Bilderberg group" behind MC. After all, MC
is such a basic element of Linux, so who wouldn't want a hand in it?

>
> basically, I've been inactive in the last couple
> of months (travelling, $dayjob), but [...]

Yep, I've noticed your resounding absence :-(  I'm relieved to see
you're still an addict.

I too have been inactive. It started with a computer crash that kept
me busy for a couple of months, and afterwards I sort of remained
inactive. Not that I've been active before that.

>
> In the mean time, kudos to Andrew who is single-handedly
> doing some excellent work on mc right now...

Right! He's like Atlas. I mean it.

I swear, when that $75 million USD finally get to me from that
Nigerian prince whose rich uncle Absalom had died, the very first
thing I'm going to do is put Andrew and you on a hge payroll. For
Andrew I'll buy a gold Lamborghini. Even before I buy myself a
computer!
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mc^2 news (august 2016)

[Mooffie]

Hi folks!

mc^2 is a Lua energized version of MC:

http://www.typo.co.il/~mooffie/mc-lua/docs/html/

So, what's new since last month? -Two exciting modules:

* "Folder Jumping"

  A feature borrowed from GitHub.com.[1]

  See screenshot[2]

* Unwind

  Automatically convert Windows/DOS line-ends to Unix, in
  the editor.

  See screenshot[3]

(You don't need to configure anything if you want to try out these
modules: the 'demo' module will ask you, at startup, which features
you want to enable.)


[1] https://github.com/blog/1877-folder-jumping
[2] 
http://www.typo.co.il/~mooffie/mc-lua/docs/html/guide/SCREENSHOTS.md.html#folder-jumping
[3] 
http://www.typo.co.il/~mooffie/mc-lua/docs/html/guide/SCREENSHOTS.md.html#unwind
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mc^2 news (july 2016)

[Mooffie]

Hi folks!

A new release of mc^2 is out. It's mainly a maintenance release,
so there aren't many exciting new features.

http://www.typo.co.il/~mooffie/mc-lua/docs/html/

News:

The C side:

  - The branch is rebased against mc 4.8.17.

The Lua side:

  - A few minor bug fixes.

  - New module: "dynamic skin"

It lets you change the skin automatically depending on
the directory you're in.

So, for example, when you're examining an old backup disk
you've mounted, or when you're on a remote machine, or when
you're browsing a panelized or filtered listing, or when
you're in a read-only directory, you can get a very
noticeable visual indication reminding you of this.

  - New module: "colon"

It lets you type :commands :like :these on the
command-line (or in the editor). Like in 'vi'.
E.g., you can rename files by typing:

:s/\.jpe?g/jpg/i

(This launches Visual Rename, where you can inspect
the changes before committing them.)

  - The snapshots module can now save/restore panelized listings.
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Re: CGDB

[Mooffie]

On 5/23/16, Nicolas Rybkin  wrote:
> Is it possible to debug MC using GDB/CGDB?

Sure. There are ways to make gdb and mc use two different terminals
(as Slava mentioned, and see later), but, depending on what you want,
this is often not needed.

>
> I can't debug it with pure GDB too, because I can't use
> keyboard when MC is running.

- Did you remember to resume mc's execution by, for example, typing
'cont' in gdb?
- Maybe the fact that mc's screen is garbled leads you to think
(erroneously) that it doesn't respond to keys. Press C-l to make mc
redraw the screen (after 'cont').

Anyway, there are ways to make gdb and mc use different terminals
(but, again, it may not have been this issue that tripped you):

(1) Run './mc' in one terminal and 'sudo gdb -p 1234' (or 'sudo gdb
./mc 1234') in another, where 1234 is mc's PID (which you can find by
executing 'echo $PPID' in mc). (Drop the 'sudo' to get instruction on
how to do without.) In gdb, set breakpoints or whatever, and do 'cont'
to resume mc (you can return to gdb even without breakpoints, by
pressing C-g). (The disadvantage of this simple method is that you
don't get a chance to inspect mc's startup.)

(2) Use 'gdbserver'.

(3) Use gdb's 'tty' command.

I once wrote some notes explaining methods (2) and (3). They're not
quite suitable for public consumption, but here they are:
http://pastebin.com/pqdk1NfB .
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Re: Midnight Commander 4.8.16 released

[Mooffie]

On 3/15/16, Yury V. Zaytsev  wrote:
> On Tue, 2016-03-15 at 09:31 +0100, wwp wrote:
>>
>> I notice that when configuring with slang, the configure summary
>> doesn't mention it, whereas for ncurses it explicitely mentions it.
>> See for instance (w/ --with-screen=slang or no --with-screen, same
>> output here):
>
> Yes, I've noticed this as well, it's a bug in our ncurses/slang
> detection macro, but it's purely cosmetic.
>
> I didn't manage to create a ticket for this so far, but if you can do
> it, it will be appreciated and maybe one day we'll even get to it.

Done:
http://www.midnight-commander.org/ticket/3607#comment:3
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Re: Browsing the source

[Mooffie]

On 2/19/16, Yury V. Zaytsev  wrote:
> [...] I've finished the integration
> script and the results are available at the following URL:
>
>  http://source.midnight-commander.org

Superb! Thanks!

minor comments:

- GLOBAL ignores dot-files and dot-directories, so you can install it
in ".global" instead of "CVS".

- Right now the header on the front page (index.html) is "mc". We can
change it by running htags thus:

htags --suggest -t "Welcome to the Midnight Commander source tour!"


(BTW, it's possible to tell htags to make the front page (index.html)
show all the files in a collapsible JavaScript tree (by adding the
option `--tree-view=filetree`). But this makes the front page 96K
instead of just 13K and the browser will also download an uncompressed
jquery.js (161K) so I don't know if we should enable this feature.)

>
> If that looks fine to you, maybe we should put it somewhere on the Trac,

Put what on Trac? A link to http://source.mc.org? Sure.

We also need to add to the front page of http://source.mc.org a short
introductory text pointing to the main site (and to the instructions
for producing the HTML on one's own computer). Leave it to me: I'll
investigate this and provide a patch in a couple of days.
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Re: Browsing the source

[Mooffie]

On 2/18/16, Yury V. Zaytsev <y...@shurup.com> wrote:
> I wonder whether you would mind giving `htagsfix` a more permanent home? [...]
> Maybe you could "officially" release and maintain it in a GitHub repository

Done:

https://github.com/mooffie/htagsfix

>
> or even try to get it pushed into GNU Global itself?

We may need additional customizations, so it's better to keep it
independent for a while.

(BTW, my original attempt was to modify htag's code itself, but I
found its C code not very wieldy so I gave up and cobbled up a quick
script.)
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Re: Browsing the source

[Mooffie]

> On 2/16/16, Yury V. Zaytsev  wrote:
>> > Global doesn't seem to be available as a package on RHEL though?! :-(
>>
>> http://www.geocities.co.jp/keep_creating/sanaly/index.html

BTW, you need to install just the "global" package. You don't need
"pygments" and "sanaly".

(I use htags to create static HTML pages but it can also produce
alternative output for servers supporting CGI (Perl). I guess "sanaly"
is something similar.)
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Re: Browsing the source

[Mooffie]

On 2/16/16, Yury V. Zaytsev <y...@shurup.com> wrote:
> On 2/16/16, Mooffie <moof...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > If I get write access to MC's wiki I can prepare a page listing the
> > steps to generate this documentation
>
> Done.

Ouch! I created a MarkDown instructions page before I got your reply.
Here it is:

    https://gist.github.com/mooffie/72d58969eceb885febf5

(I'll convert it to MC's wiki sometime.)

> Could you please tell how much time is required for generation, I'm
> wondering whether I can simply have it run upon every commit or rather
> it would be more appropriate to let it run hourly / nightly or so.

As the instructions page explains, there are three commands to run
(gtags, htags, htagsfix). On my computer it takes about 3 minutes
total. But I'm using an old Pentium 4. I imagine modern computers do
this in at least 20% of the time: 35 seconds top.

> > Global doesn't seem to be available as a package on RHEL though?! :-(
>
> http://www.geocities.co.jp/keep_creating/sanaly/index.html

I see that this is the newest 'global' version. Good. You can ignore
the "appendix" on the instructions page.

> > We can also provide a downloadable tarball
> > (around 12 MB) so people can have it right away.

Anybody who's interested can download the HTML archive here:

http://www.typo.co.il/~mooffie/tmp/mc/mc-source-html.PASSWORD.tgz

Replace "PASSWORD" with "bird" (sorry for this silly trick. I don't
want people to stress the server).
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mc^2 news (january 2016)

[Mooffie]

Hi folks!

mc^2 is a Lua energized version of MC:

http://www.typo.co.il/~mooffie/mc-lua/docs/html/

So, what's new in mc^2 since its announcement here in May 2015? Lots
of minor things. Lots of non-minor things. But I won't bore you with
lengthy lists. The highlights:

* The git commit history was rewritten. It now consists of around 90
  commits that go from genesis to today.

* New users can get an impression of mc^2 instantly: just run it and
  a dialog will pop up asking you if you want to enable some "factory
  defaults" goodies.

  You no longer need to configure mc^2 if you just want to take it
  for a test-drive!

Some new scripts:

* You can drag dialogs with the mouse. Dialogs with help pages
  have "?" icon at their corner.

* "Restore selection"

* "Size calculator"

* A front-end for scanimage(1).

You can see much of these features on the screenshots page:

http://www.typo.co.il/~mooffie/mc-lua/docs/html/guide/SCREENSHOTS.md.html
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Re: mc and me

[Mooffie]

On 11/4/15, Egmont Koblinger  wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> I've been thinking about writing something like this for quite a long
> time...

Egmont, I feel for you!

(I hope these are suitable words. I'm not an English speaker. At this
moment I'm hungry and tired so I'm giving up revising that sentence
;-)

It'd pain me greatly to see you go or no longer contributing. I'm
relatively new here and you (and Yury, and Andrew) are the only one(s)
I've seen showing care/love towards MC. So, in a very straightforward
way, you're very precious to me - and to every user of MC. Not from a
utilitarian point of view but also from that of being a kin - bonded
by love for MC. Though I don't think we're a crowd that differentiates
between "love" and "utility" when it come to our hobby software! ;-)

> Probably #3534 comment 18 was the last straw (a one-character
> change probably not making it into the next release).

I'm sorry that I chimed in there. I thought I could help expedite
matters by providing "review" to help bring the issue to conclusion,
but, alas, my "contribution" there added needless volume and probably
did the opposite.

On the up side, every comment of yours there attest to your
thoroughness. Not that I needed more evidence for that. One needs to
read only few of your tickets to understand that the community can
entrust you with responsibility.

>
> The question is: backwards, or forwards?

So indeed, Yury, why not forward?

The sun is shining, the birds are chirping, the coffee is a brewing,
and a cheery letter from Egmont is waiting; what can be better than
that?
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Re: Midnight Commander not compiles on Debian Squeeze

[Mooffie]

On 10/20/15, Andrey Tataranovich  wrote:
> Glib version check patch attached.

You also need to update README, INSTALL, HACKING.
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Re: listbox hotkeys

[Mooffie]

On 5/24/15, Mike Smithson mdooli...@gmail.com wrote:

 It's always bugged me that I can only access the
 first 10 items with the keys 0-9.
 [...]
 Keys a-z are very often used by the menu of the
 dialog the listbox is in, but keys A-Z are not.
 [...]
 Now I can access the top 36 items instead of just
 the top 10.

But isn't it hard to count, say, 27 items mentally? Isn't it easier
to just press the arrows repeatedly? I think that's a question the
maintainers are going to ask you.

(Otherwise I don't see a problem with your code. But you'd want to
change the - 55 to - 'A' + 10 and remove the curly brackets
(that's their laws).)

Anyway, you can do all such tweakings in mc^2 without touching the C
code. Here, I translated your code to Lua:

https://github.com/mooffie/mc/blob/lua-4.8.14-port/src/lua/tests/snippets/listbox_AZ.lua

I've also created a new module today that lets you associate hotkeys
with the directories there. Again, no C coding is required. Here's a
screenshot (note the yellow arrows):

http://www.typo.co.il/~mooffie/mc-lua/docs/html/guide/SCREENSHOTS.md.html#Find_as_you_type__hotkeys__clock

(Isn't this feature what you *really* want?)


 I use Directory hotlist a lot. Constantly, really.

A few weeks ago somebody said he's using the File edit/view history
of Dos Navigator several hundred times a day[1]. After implementing
it (better) in mc^2 I can say the same. I mention it because many
times (thanks to its Quick filter entry[2]) one can use it as a
replacement for the Directory hotlist dialog.

[1] http://www.midnight-commander.org/ticket/280#comment:25
[2] 
http://www.typo.co.il/~mooffie/mc-lua/docs/html/guide/SCREENSHOTS.md.html#Recently_Visited_Files__xterm_titles
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Re: mc is over!? - post by Ilia Maslakov on Russian-speaking IT site

[Mooffie]

On 5/27/15, Paul Sokolovsky pmis...@gmail.com wrote:
 happens within your team. Whatever it is, please show goodwill by
 adding Egmont Koblinger to the maintainer team, if he agrees

I second that!
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Re: [ANN] mc^2

[Mooffie]

On 5/8/15, Egmont Koblinger egm...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi,

 How much work would it be to port your branch to 4.8.14 or git head?
 I'd really like to use your version for daily work

Done. The 4.8.14 port has just been pushed to github. The Getting
started (and Installation) chapter now has the appropriate branch
name.

(This is not yet the stage-by-stage patch I promised here to the
maintainers (together with some reviewers guide document, to ease
their work), but this will come soon.)
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Re: mc is over!? - post by Ilia Maslakov on Russian-speaking IT site

[Mooffie]

On 5/27/15, Volodymyr Buell vbu...@gmail.com wrote:
 Please organise a pol to choose a right person.

 Personally my opinion - why not to give a steering wheel to Mooffie

Hey, hold the horses. I'm not at all a programming hotshot, and being
practically anonymous here so far, I should be treated with suspicion.
To borrow the [in]famous idiom, I haven't proven myself to be real
man ;-) And nobody has actually looked into my code yet. There are
better people here who have shown aptitude, responsibility and
dedication for years (Egmont comes to mind).


 It seems [that Mooffie] did much more for mc than anybody
 else in past few years.

No, that's patently untrue. First, it's just an illusion that writing
mc^2 involved a lot of work. Second, Andrew Borodin has been doing a
tremendous (and fantastic) work of cleaning up the code. People
perhaps aren't aware of this. It won't be right to say that MC
stagnates.

As an aside:

As one for whom MC is the center of the universe, I was surprised to
learn that this is not the case for everybody, and that MC's lifeblood
was not flowing as strong as one would imagine. Until a year or two
ago I was convinced MC's development was financed and steered by the
Illuminati...

I'd guess, based on my own experience, that people (that is,
programmers) are simply not aware of MC's predicament. After all, how
would they? There's no sign for that unless one stumbles upon specific
posts here.
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Re: [ANN] mc^2

[Mooffie]

On 5/11/15, Alexander Kriegisch alexan...@kriegisch.name wrote:

 And now there comes along Mooffie and donates something to
 the project. As I expected based on my experience with my own
 patches, people start discussing details and demanding smaller
 patches

In case you're referring here to people asking me to split my patch
into smaller ones, then they're absolutely right in their request.
It's something I certainly ought to do.


 [...] instead of discussing and staying stuck in your analysis
 paralysis?

(I think people here were all positive towards the idea behind mc^2,
so I believe your impression, in this case at least, was wrong. There
was just one guy (Paul) who showed some frustration. I don't think
harm has been done *yet* ;-)
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Re: [ANN] mc^2

[Mooffie]

On 5/10/15, Paul Sokolovsky pmis...@gmail.com wrote:

 ... and the conversation is focused around priority of things to do [...]
 is exciting new is the only thing you're after, then


Paul,

Nowhere did I market mc^2 as bringing exciting new stuff.

If you'd checked out mc^2 site, you'd have found a page listing
reasons to have scripting support. You'd have discovered that one of
my major motives was to help fix this heartbreaking situation of users
whose patches get ignored. I mention there the frustration and
embitterment they feel.

It was even in my announcement message here on this mailing list.

Read it again. Nowhere do I use the words features or new or
exciting or shiny.

The words I *do* use there are to put an end to this waste of human resources.

Read mc^2 frontpage again. The one out of which you plucked one
sentence. Does it have exciting or new or features or shiny on
it?

No, it hasn't.

It talks about making MC's code leaner, and fixing bugs.

What's ironic, Paul, is that if you'd bothered to check out mc^2 you'd
have seen that it concurs with your own agenda. It's just that while
you're just preaching (or bickering, should I say), I'm actually
doing.

Furthermore,

If you ever bother to read the documents there, or my few messages
here, you'll see that I make it a principle to hand over all policy
decisions to the community/maintainers. I market mc^2 only as food
for thought, and I mention directions in which the community, not me,
may choose to go. I also state (the obvious) that the community is
free to deem my work garbage.

I submit myself to their will because I know it's the only way to go
forward in order to achieve the goal, and the goal is not shiny
exciting new features but keeping MC alive and solving the heartaches
of the contributors and users.

Now, don't bother to compose a reply, Paul. I think you'll agree with
me that we probably won't manage a very constructive discussion here.
I'll welcome any private email from you if you wish to, though.
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Re: [ANN] mc^2

[Mooffie]

On 5/8/15, Andrew Borodin aboro...@vmail.ru wrote:

 It would be great if you split first huge commit of branch in several small
 commits. It will make the review easier.

I'll take notice of that.
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Re: [ANN] mc^2

[Mooffie]

On 5/9/15, Yury V. Zaytsev wrote:

 Anyways, how do we move from there on?

I'll be doing two things:

- I'll prepare a document explaining to reviewers the overall
structure of the code and the modifications to existing files.

- I'll look into porting the code to 4.8.14.

The thing I'll appreciate from reviewers at this early stage is
not to criticize the small things (e.g., coding style) but to look
at the big picture.

(I already know some places where I'll get criticism. E.g., in
places where I didn't wan't to refactor things in the old code (e.g., in
src/filemanager/panel.c). Why didn't I? because I didn't think
it was wise to refactor/modify old code before I first get an ok on
the big picture.)
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Re: [ANN] mc^2

[Mooffie]

On 5/8/15, Egmont Koblinger egm...@gmail.com wrote:

 [...] a complete rewrite [...] would require at least 100x (but
 rather 1000x) the work Mooffie has probably already spent. There are
 no engineering resources for that.
 [...]
 Successful redesigns almost always happen in small steps, maintaining
 the usability and quality of the project throughout the steps.
 [...]

Egmont,

Thanks for composing this excellent reply. I actually composed one
myself (a much, much shorter one) before going on-line. I combed it
to see what I could salvage out of it but I see that you've got all
the main points.

Now,

mc^2 isn't perfect. API in a scripting language poses many
challenges (which you mentioned, and Szabó Gergely too). These are
certainly issues we'll have to think about. It's certainly possible
that people will conclude that mc^2 in its present form is garbage,
but at least it provides us with a path we can work on.


 did you just rewrite half of mc

No, it's not a rewrite.

(That's the short answer. The sources (under the 'src/lua' tree) seem
big at first glance, but that's mainly because they have documentation
embedded in them. There are files with just 10% of actual code.)
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Re: [ANN] mc^2

[Mooffie]

On 5/8/15, Egmont Koblinger wrote:
 How much work would it be to port your branch to 4.8.14 or git head
 (they're pretty much the same now)?

Probably very little work.

I'll do that sometime soon, I hope.
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[ANN] mc^2

[Mooffie]

Hi guys!

I've just published a branch of MC with Lua support:

  http://www.typo.co.il/~mooffie/mc-lua/docs/html/

See the screenshots link.

Also see the other documents link for background (especially
HISTORY).

Many, many tickets can be solved with mc^2, but I don't want to spam
the ticket queue with my posts, so I've prepared a list of some such
tickets (see other documents - TICKETS).

(But in a few tickets I *will* comment: in tickets I believe a
constructive discussion could ensue, or where I feel people are truly
in need of a solution.)

==

Now, I guess I'll be attacked for one reason or another. Let me save
your time by attacking myself for you:

==

Q: Is this a 'fork' of MC? Are you trying to split the community?

A: No, this is not a fork (as per Wikipedia's definition). It's intended
   to be food for thought for the MC community. My hope is that
   eventually the principle behind mc^2 will be adopted by MC.

==

Q: Is seems that you've invested a lot of time in this. Gosh, why
waste human resources?! Especially on something that nobody's
going to use?

A: The time I waste here is negligible in comparison to the time and
   efforts wasted by tens of people who have tried to contribute code
   to MC over the years.

   The principle behind mc^2, if adopted by MC, is going to put an end
   to this waste of human resources.

==

Q: But why use Lua?!?! Why not pick the language that starts
with 'P'?! Why not make it work with any language?!??!

A: Let's not talk about languages/VMs *right now*. Please, as much as
   it's tempting.

   Right now, the language is not the issue. The issue is the
   principle, of having some extension language.

   The language/VM is obviously something everybody will have
   something to say about. You will. But not now.

   If every passerby here will now emit his 2 cents opinion/rant,
   it will kill the vision/project. It will start a Holy War. It will
   derail the discussion from the mainroad to the gutters. It's the
   least constructive thing that could happen. It means death.

   In the future, when we know the principle will be regarded favorably
   by MC's maintainers, we could open this issue and discuss things.

   One thing's for sure: You can't give an opinion about the subject
   without considering it for at least a week (or a month, I'd say).
   There are various facets to consider. There are threads of thoughts
   to be picked and discarded. There are insights to be acquired. You
   can't just barge in with use Python!!, use Parrot!, use
   GObject!. As the Chinese saying goes, Opinions are like belly
   buttons: everybody has one. It should take more, much more, than
   an opinion to affect the discussion.

   So, again: let's not talk about languages now.

   (For the record: I recorded my reasons for choosing Lua in
   other documents - HISTORY.)
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Have STREQ(a,b)?

[Mooffie]

I see many `if (strcmp (a, b) == 0)` in the code. Wouldn't it be nice
if we create a macro and then do `if (STREQ (a,b))` instead?

(Not that it bothers me much. I ask this mainly to verify that my
subscription works and that I can post here ;-)
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