Re: MD: Sony MD discam (OT)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi! MO uses a laser to heat a surface and a magnetic head to change the direction of the attoms in this surface. It's based on the 'curry effect'. You might see some curry effects when you order diner at an Indian restaurant, but as far as I know, md uses the "Curie"-effect to achieve data storage :-) Bye, Hannes Oeps... made a typing error Cheers, Ralph - allways wondering when he should use of or off. -- === Ralph SmeetsFunctional Verification Centre Of Competence - CMG Voice: (+33) (0)4 76 58 44 46 STMicroelectronics Fax:(+33) (0)4 76 58 40 11 5, chem de la Dhuy Mobile: (+33) (0)6 82 66 62 70 38240 MEYLAN E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FRANCE === "For many years, mankind lived just like the animals. And then something happened that unleashed the powers of our imagination: We learned to talk." -- Stephen Hawking, later used by Pink Floyd -- === - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Sony MD discam (OT)
Kade Hansson wrote: If you say so, Ralph. I certainly agree there is more than one way to implement a rewritable CD. But I had always assumed CD-RW was magneto-optical. I believe it's Phase-Change, not Magneto-Optical. CD-RW that is. MD's *are* MO. -- Shawn Lin http://www2.cybercities.com/g/gmwbodycars/ __ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Sony MD discam (OT)
Ralph Smeets wrote: Than I must have been wrong I always thoughed MD used MO technology and that CD-RW used some sort of other technology that doesn't require a magnetic field during writing. Correct, there is no magnetic head riding above the disc with CD-RW. That's why CD-RW doesn't require a cartridge like MO does. The magnetic head actually slides across the top surface of the MD which has a silicone lubricant on it. -- Shawn Lin http://www2.cybercities.com/g/gmwbodycars/ __ NetZero - Defenders of the Free World Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Sony MD discam (OT)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 09:59 AM 11/30/99 +0100, RS wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Funnily enough, just as audio MDs are sawn-off CD-RWs, MD-Data2 discs are sawn of DVD-RWs. Ahh Than I must have been wrong I always thoughed MD used MO technology and that CD-RW used some sort of other technology that doesn't require a magnetic field during writing. mumblesSmart ass... Tosser..mumbles That was a joke. Sort of comes with my job. I verify microprocessors.. (SH4/SH5 are two of the microprocessors in my bag) Errors don't show up like that, you have to ask for them. It means criticizing... I sort of tested you to see if you where just saying non-sence or if you really know what you're talking about. Look Ralph, it was a throw away line, but if you insist, CD-RW is, from what I have read, a magneto-optical format from the Orange Book (CD) standard: Orange Book Standard - Announced in 1990 to address the new recordable optical media and provide specifications for incremental writes. - Divided into 2 parts, Compact Disc-Magneto Optical (CD-MO) and - Compact Disc-Write Once (CD-WO) - Covers Multi-session discs, such as the Kodak Photo CD. CD-MO was considered as a rewritable optical media. But it never maked it to the consumer. CD-RW made it. Now, because I don't use rewritable CD media, and have no practical experience with CD-RW, I have always assumed that CD-MO was CD-RW. Please tell me if I am wrong, but I do ask that you adopt a much less condescending and patronising tone in future. MO uses a laser to heat a surface and a magnetic head to change the direction of the attoms in this surface. It's based on the 'curry effect'. CD-RW uses a chemical substance that changes if you shine a laser on it. AFAIK it won't change if used with a low power laser. but it will change with a high power laser. All the documentation I have read on MiniDisc media seems to indicate that it is heavily based on the CD standards. After all, why reinvent the wheel. Hence my statement that MD1 is sawn-off (i.e. a smaller) CD-RW (meaning CD-MO from Orange Book). The protocols are based on CD. If you read the IEEE ATRAC document (on the community pages) you'll see that MD is based on CD-MO. But NOT CD-RW. Seriously, you can't compare MDs with CD-RWs since the underlying technology is completly different. If you say so, Ralph. I certainly agree there is more than one way to Oh, and MDData2 just happened along coincidentally at the same time as we figured out how to pack more onto an optical disc. To say the two are not related is farce. I'd be willing to bet that the MD2 specs bear striking resemblance to DVD specs, just as the MD1 specs bear striking resemblance to Orange Book (CD) specs. Nope, if you look a little bit at Sony's product line, you'll see that they sell 5.25 inch 4GB magneto optical drives... Bring it back to 2.5 inch and voila, your medium for MDData2 is ready. I don't think they have changed a lot in how they organize their data on the disk. Which is probably based on MDData. I suppose that DVD-RAM is based on the same principles as CD-RW. Cheers, Ralph - Was I to hard? -- === Ralph SmeetsFunctional Verification Centre Of Competence - CMG Voice: (+33) (0)4 76 58 44 46 STMicroelectronics Fax:(+33) (0)4 76 58 40 11 5, chem de la Dhuy Mobile: (+33) (0)6 82 66 62 70 38240 MEYLAN E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FRANCE === "For many years, mankind lived just like the animals. And then something happened that unleashed the powers of our imagination: We learned to talk." -- Stephen Hawking, later used by Pink Floyd -- === - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Sony MD discam (OT)
Hi! MO uses a laser to heat a surface and a magnetic head to change the direction of the attoms in this surface. It's based on the 'curry effect'. You might see some curry effects when you order diner at an Indian restaurant, but as far as I know, md uses the "Curie"-effect to achieve data storage :-) Bye, Hannes - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Sony MD discam (OT)
Why is it that I have the idea that a DVD based sollution is going to fail? Is it because it's to big. People WILL compare the size of a DVD based camcorder to the size of a miniDV/D8/MDVideo based camcorder. Or is it because all major camcorder manufacturers are supporting miniDV? D8 is an attempt of Sony to give the current Hi8 user a path to upgrade. D8 plays (Hi)8 tapes and records MPEG2 on a Hi8 tape. Since D8 is less expensive than miniDV, and since Hi8 tapes are less expensive than miniDV and since D8 the camcorders are less expensive than miniDV camcorders, their might be a big chance that it's going to succeed. It could also become the DCC of the camcorders... MD-Data2 or as I call it, MDVideo, will be an alternative to the bulky DVD based camcorders. It's difficult to say if it is going to be a succes. Personaly I bet on miniDV. Mainly because it's already a standard. Cheers, Ralph [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am also beginning to wonder if Sony's marketing/design experts are losing the plot. I agree that a 1394 connection should be a basic inclusion for digital video When you look at the other video formats recently released by Sony, including Digital8 and some other weird hi8 sealed cassette (that maybe never got out of Japan) and 'Memory Stick' (expensive and physically non-compatible, when the world already has cheap CF smart media devices) you begin to wonder why they saturate the market with various non-compatible formats... At least Hitachi seem to be working on disc based cams with full DVD compatibility - that's the way to go IMHO GB - Original Message - From: Rodney Peterson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, 28 November 1999 9:56 Subject: Re: MD: Sony MD discam (OT) Yes, but the inclusion of a digital output is so basic for this kind of camcorder and really standard with any digital camcorder, so the only thing I can think of is the SCMS angle for not including it on a MD Discam. What if Sony's first MD unit had an MD recorder, CD player and small speakers built in-but no outputs or inputs. It would have been a colassal failure. That's pretty much what they did here. They're trying to target upsacle family camcorder owners with this product and there is apparently no desire to sell these to people who will use them for semi-professional or professional video recording. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- === Ralph SmeetsFunctional Verification Centre Of Competence - CMG Voice: (+33) (0)4 76 58 44 46 STMicroelectronics Fax:(+33) (0)4 76 58 40 11 5, chem de la Dhuy Mobile: (+33) (0)6 82 66 62 70 38240 MEYLAN E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] FRANCE === "For many years, mankind lived just like the animals. And then something happened that unleashed the powers of our imagination: We learned to talk." -- Stephen Hawking, later used by Pink Floyd -- === - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Sony MD discam (OT)
Hi Ralph, Why is it that I have the idea that a DVD based sollution is going to fail? Is it because it's to big. People WILL compare the size of a DVD based camcorder to the size of a miniDV/D8/MDVideo based camcorder. Maybe - but why not develop a smaller DVD disc that would hold (say) an hour of DV quality and would be about the same size as MD - and would play back instantly in any DVD player with an adaptor (or maybe with no adaptor?) Or is it because all major camcorder manufacturers are supporting miniDV? Yes, but as soon as disc based video becomes a reality, just watch the tape formats die. Check this out. http://www.pioneer.co.jp/press/release63.html D8 is an attempt of Sony to give the current Hi8 user a path to upgrade. D8 plays (Hi)8 tapes and records MPEG2 on a Hi8 tape. Since D8 is less expensive than miniDV, and since Hi8 tapes are less expensive than miniDV and since D8 the camcorders are less expensive than miniDV camcorders, their might be a big chance that it's going to succeed. It could also become the DCC of the camcorders... I hope it dies a death - it would be just desserts to Sony for being such pillocks in delaying Digital8 until a lot of us got sucked into DV Digital8 should have been released first, before DV, then all of us Hi8 users would have supported it - the quality is in theory exactly the same as DV, but smart (?) Sony marketing have deliberatly kept the optics quality lower than DV and deliberatly delayed D8 to allow (expensive, non backward compatible) DV to take the market I hope more than anything that Sony gets badly burnt with Digital8 and maybe with MD discam if they insist on developing non-standard formats GB - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Sony MD discam (OT)
At 07:11 AM 11/30/99 +, you wrote: On Mon, 29 Nov 1999, Ralph Smeets wrote: MD-Data2 or as I call it, MDVideo, will be an alternative to the bulky DVD based camcorders. It's difficult to say if it is going to be a succes. You mention DVD camcorders, do you have any URLs for these? And can the movies you record be played back in standard DVD players? They don't exist yet. Heck, the first consumer DVD recorder has only just appeared. And Graham, I should tell you that 8cm DVDs (DVD-2, DVD-4) are already in the specs. The only thing we are waiting for are portable devices that can record them. You shouldn't even need an adaptor in most units, although there may be problems with reflectivity and also the data format. At the moment, there are many proposed recordable DVD video formats, and most of them are incompatible with the current playback standard. (Much like CD-RW.) Funnily enough, just as audio MDs are sawn-off CD-RWs, MD-Data2 discs are sawn of DVD-RWs. -- Archer http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/6413/ End. - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MD: Sony MD discam
Sony has a web site for its MD Discam at http://www.sel.sony.com/SEL/consumer/mddiscam/flash/mddc.htm - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Sony MD discam
I don't see anything at all at that link. Just a black page. WebTV incompatible or no information there yet? - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Sony MD discam
=== The original message was multipart MIME=== === All non-text parts (attachments) have been removed === I saw an animated presentation on the Discam. Bruno [EMAIL PROTECTED] a crit : I don't see anything at all at that link. Just a black page. WebTV incompatible or no information there yet? - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] === MIME part removed : text/x-vcard; === - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Sony MD discam
People with web tv sghould go to http://www.sel.sony.com/SEL/consumer/mddiscam/flash/index.html to view the site. Thsi si the page that comes up after the FLASH animation that plays with my first link. - Original Message - From: "Rodney Peterson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 26, 1999 9:09 AM Subject: Re: MD: Sony MD discam I don't see anything at all at that link. Just a black page. WebTV incompatible or no information there yet? - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: MD: Sony MD discam
It's very cool but with two HUGE drawbacks not included that are found on Sony Mini DV Camcorders: No IEEE 1394 Firewire Link, therefore, no way of transferring MD Discam Digital Video to any kind of digital tape for making copies or assembling MPEG2 quality movies of longer than 20 minutes in length (assuming you use the variable bit function and it records the longest possible video on disc-otherwise, anywhere between 10 to 20 minutes.) Totally useless for semi-professional or professional purposes except as a still image camera. No ability to dub a second audio track in. You can add an audio track in later but you can't add it to your original audio track without erasing it, no two track audio-and you know it should be able to do this. Another drawback about this camera, found on most Sony Mini DV and Digital 8 camcorders, but not the MD Discam: No Nightshot. Come on, Sony, you can do better! - To stop getting this list send a message containing just the word "unsubscribe" to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
