Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
ext Florent Viard fvi...@gmail.com writes: Stop considering the regular user as a stupid guy/girl that needs to have everything reduced to only one button. Most of the users never had problem to understand and use file managers as soon as they are used to. (Otherwise, windows wouldn't have been used by so much users until today) It's not that filesystems are too difficult and must be hidden, the thing is that they are a god damn awful way to organize your data. They are not difficult, they are primitive, and we should provide something better. Given the user _only_ a filemanager is a failure, but I would agree that the things we try to give the user instead are still a bit raw, and not ready yet to make filemanagers redundant for everyone. IMO, people don't care so much about folder hierarchy when they have good search and tagging. But they do care about physical location of data, e.g., whether the music file is on the memory card, in the internal phone storage, or on the home server. I have the feeling that we can replace the 'hierachical folder navigation' part of filemanagers quite well, but the 'copy stuff from the home server to my phone' part isn't covered well enough yet. ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
On Saturday 02 July 2011 01:43:38 you wrote: Stop trying to think in place of a pseudo average joe but instead try to create things that are useful for you and the normal users will follow. Can I use this as an excuse whenever somebody asks why do I have to go to the command line/edit conf files ? :) Arjan mentioned Apple as one example of this Just works and at the same time never too far from being hackable. The question is, as usual, how wide you can stretch your acceptance band. By now, it should be clear you can't have one interaction paradigm that will rule all, users, developers and random bystanders alike. The real problem is, thus, not that paradigm A or paradigm B is better or worse for a group of users, but that you limited yourself to ONE (usually along the lines of grab much, gain little) approach in the name of simplicity. To come back at the subject of the need of a file browser, lets suppose that you had a trip in a foreign country with friends and that now you want to show them all that you have from the trip. Will you prefer to have one folder with all the videos, photos, pdf scan of documents or to open the photo viewer to show them the photos, then go to the video player to browse the videos then to the pdf viewer to browse the pdfs, then to go back in all those applications to export to an usb key or import these data? This is more of a filesystem philosophy argument - what you want for these use cases is a tag-based filesystem (with another argument, how to get the tags there without annoying the user). You assumed one use-case here, but that works only as your context is the trip and ALL data. What if you were looking for pictures/videos of John, or have pictures in there that will get you on the sofa if the wife doesn't get to deselect them. The bottom line being is that a directory is an okay method for grouping data - it's just that it has the same limitations as it did 30 years ago, so trying to find better ways to organize data is not necessarily bad (with the caveats from my previous paragraph). Best regards, Attila Csipa ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
I dont know how a file manager for a system like linux for normal user is a failure. Has there been a survey? How many of the people who use cell phones these days also use a computer? Do they not have a file explorer of some kind on their windows/mac computers? On a cell phone like nokia 1100 it made sense to not have a file manager, but a 64GB N9 (or some a random meego tablet)? File manager is very very very important thing. Why should a document reader manage all my docs? Why should a pdf reader manage all my pdf files, why should a media player manage all the audio/video for me? Is the notion to browse your device all dead in these times? Cant I just pick up my 64gb device with the intention of seeing what I have stored in all these months of it in my ownership? In this scenerio I am picking up the device not to open the doc app to check what docs are their, i'm not opening the pdf viewer to see what pdfs are their, and not launching the media player to see what songs are their. I'm picking up my device to browse through the great piece of hardware that is enormously capable, and I want to browse my folders, something I have created in my usage of the device, just the way i wanted, just the names that I wanted to give the directories I created. I may find a doc that I wanted to read, I may find a song that I wanted to listen, or a vid that I wanted to watch, or a pdf book that I was half way through, I dont know right now, but as I look I may say oh yes I was looking at this, lets read that page again or what comes next to it. I may have even wanted to just have a special location where I have saved a group of docs that are so important to me. File manager is a must. I have not used iphone, but seems like if ios plateform is giving ppl this idea that we should not have a file manager on meego, this is going to be pretty foolish of us. I dont agree that dropping stuff like this from ios was the reason of its success. ..ab ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
On Saturday 02 July 2011 21:12:40 you wrote: Why should a document reader manage all my docs? Why should a pdf reader manage all my pdf files, why should a media player manage all the audio/video for me? Is the notion to browse your device all dead in these times? Cant I just pick up my 64gb device with the intention of seeing what I have stored in all these months of it in my ownership? In this scenerio I am picking up The point was that the lack of a file manager that directly exposes the file system DOES NOT imply that you need to manage content from content specific applications. To play devil's advocate a bit - people seem to forget that tag/content based browsing is a lot more persistent than filesystem browsing - if I use a MacBook, a MeeGo tablet and a Win7 desktop PC, do I really need to know the file hierarchy on all three even if I use the exact same applications/services on them ? iOS does this suckily - but that does not mean the goal or idea itself is flawed. Thus, consider carefully whether the I need in the statements does not originate at least a little bit from I'm used to. /me ducks and hides in the trenches of his command line Best regards, Attila Csipa ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Attila Csipa me...@csipa.in.rs wrote: the goal or idea itself is flawed. Thus, consider carefully whether the I need in the statements does not originate at least a little bit from I'm used to. /me ducks and hides in the trenches of his command line As it appears, bad ergonomics of command like is what makes file manager useful on tablets ;-). Wetab already has a file manager, didn't check if it's open source. A qml based file manager would be useful for all verticals. ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
[MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
Hello all, i'm working on tablet edition. I've not found a file manager or any use of (for example) usb keys ... is there something planned about that ? if not, i'm okay to develop it. Éric -- -- AbulEdu -- NouvaLinux -- Centre de Formation -- Éric Seigne - Directeur| eric.sei...@ryxeo.com RyXéo SARL | http://www.ryxeo.com 21 avenue M. et E. Dulout | tel +33 6 987 444 01 33600 Pessac - FRANCE | fax +33 9 56 606 607 ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
On 01/07/11 10:45, Éric Seigne wrote: Hello all, Hello, i'm working on tablet edition. I've not found a file manager or any use of (for example) usb keys ... is there something planned about that ? if not, i'm okay to develop it. What do you plan to use the file manager for? Ideally, you shouldn't need a file manager at all on the platform, applications should manage the files you use properly for you. -- Regards, Martyn Founder and CEO of Lanedo GmbH. ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
On Friday 01 Jul 2011 11:36:58 Martyn Russell wrote: On 01/07/11 10:45, Éric Seigne wrote: Hello all, Hello, i'm working on tablet edition. I've not found a file manager or any use of (for example) usb keys ... is there something planned about that ? if not, i'm okay to develop it. What do you plan to use the file manager for? Ideally, you shouldn't need a file manager at all on the platform, applications should manage the files you use properly for you. i'm guessing he wants a file manager for the same reason others might want a terminal, for geekery... and, of course, for the applications which don't quite fit into the utopian world view of they should manage the files you use properly for you ;) -- ..Dan // Leinir.. http://leinir.dk/ Co- existence or no existence - Piet Hein ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
Le 01/07/2011 13:08, Dan Leinir Turthra Jensen a écrit : What do you plan to use the file manager for? Ideally, you shouldn't need a file manager at all on the platform, applications should manage the files you use properly for you. i'm guessing he wants a file manager for the same reason others might want a terminal, for geekery... and, of course, for the applications which don't quite fit into the utopian world view of they should manage the files you use properly for you ;) Hmmm, ok, here is the situation: - i've got a tablet with usb connectors - ok, let's play, i plug a key and ... nothing happens ... So, i juste want a tiny file manager connected to udev to make an interactive action with users, hello, you've plugged an usb key, what do you want to do ? hmm there are some pictures on device do you want to add it in ~/Pictures (for example) ... But really not for a geek attitude, i already have nautilus on my tablet :) a+ Éric -- -- AbulEdu -- NouvaLinux -- Centre de Formation -- Éric Seigne - Directeur| eric.sei...@ryxeo.com RyXéo SARL | http://www.ryxeo.com 21 avenue M. et E. Dulout | tel +33 6 987 444 01 33600 Pessac - FRANCE | fax +33 9 56 606 607 ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
On Friday 01 Jul 2011 11:36:58 Martyn Russell wrote: On 01/07/11 10:45, Éric Seigne wrote: Hello all, Hello, i'm working on tablet edition. I've not found a file manager or any use of (for example) usb keys ... is there something planned about that ? if not, i'm okay to develop it. What do you plan to use the file manager for? The obtuse answer here is To access the file system... a less obtuse answer is Because I want to ;) Ideally, you shouldn't need a file manager at all on the platform, applications should manage the files you use properly for you. This is all well and good for the majority of people... right until you run into the programs which don't play by the rules ;) And we all know how many app devs are out there who don't like the rules (for whatever misguided reason there might be for it, they exist, and we have to deal with them). -- ..Dan // Leinir.. http://leinir.dk/ Co- existence or no existence - Piet Hein ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
On 01/07/11 13:44, Dan Leinir Turthra Jensen wrote: On Friday 01 Jul 2011 11:36:58 Martyn Russell wrote: On 01/07/11 10:45, Éric Seigne wrote: Hello all, Hello, i'm working on tablet edition. I've not found a file manager or any use of (for example) usb keys ... is there something planned about that ? if not, i'm okay to develop it. What do you plan to use the file manager for? The obtuse answer here is To access the file system... a less obtuse answer is Because I want to ;) From a geek stand point, I completely understand. From a non-geek stand point, I would ask, why does the user need to access the file system? A lot of modern day smart phones work with files but never expose the file system in a way that a conventional file manager does. Ideally, you shouldn't need a file manager at all on the platform, applications should manage the files you use properly for you. This is all well and good for the majority of people... right until you run into the programs which don't play by the rules ;) And we all know how many app devs are out there who don't like the rules (for whatever misguided reason there might be for it, they exist, and we have to deal with them). That's still not a reason to need a file manager. :) One reason is really just to cater for 3rd party apps with file types unsupported as standard by the system (for example). A lot of the concepts of a file manager don't make sense to me on a device like a tablet. Users seldom care *where* their files are, rather what they're called and that they can find them. Again that's the realm of the applications IMO. Understand, I am playing devil's advocate a little here ;) -- Regards, Martyn Founder and CEO of Lanedo GmbH. ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
Le 01/07/2011 15:18, Martyn Russell a écrit : On 01/07/11 13:31, Éric Seigne wrote: Le 01/07/2011 13:08, Dan Leinir Turthra Jensen a écrit : What do you plan to use the file manager for? Ideally, you shouldn't need a file manager at all on the platform, applications should manage the files you use properly for you. i'm guessing he wants a file manager for the same reason others might want a terminal, for geekery... and, of course, for the applications which don't quite fit into the utopian world view of they should manage the files you use properly for you ;) Hmmm, ok, here is the situation: - i've got a tablet with usb connectors - ok, let's play, i plug a key and ... nothing happens ... So, i juste want a tiny file manager connected to udev to make an interactive action with users, hello, you've plugged an usb key, what do you want to do ? hmm there are some pictures on device do you want to add it in ~/Pictures (for example) ... But really not for a geek attitude, i already have nautilus on my tablet :) What you suggest here sounds more like a notification / action manager type application, not a file manager though. This sort of thing can make sense to allow the user to switch to applications based on the content found on the newly mounted hardware sure. Hey, i'm sorry, but do you have a tablet ? if you have it, could you plug a key into usb ? then does your key have only pictures ? or only pdf ? or only odt ? ... all of my keys have a tons of different files and i think notification without file manager is useless ... okay for a notification but then what else ? what appens after notification ? and an other question: imagine people have a tablet and want make a backup ... (for example on an usb key) ... what is the solution ? Éric -- -- AbulEdu -- NouvaLinux -- Centre de Formation -- Éric Seigne - Directeur| eric.sei...@ryxeo.com RyXéo SARL | http://www.ryxeo.com 21 avenue M. et E. Dulout | tel +33 6 987 444 01 33600 Pessac - FRANCE | fax +33 9 56 606 607 ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
On 01/07/11 13:31, Éric Seigne wrote: Le 01/07/2011 13:08, Dan Leinir Turthra Jensen a écrit : What do you plan to use the file manager for? Ideally, you shouldn't need a file manager at all on the platform, applications should manage the files you use properly for you. i'm guessing he wants a file manager for the same reason others might want a terminal, for geekery... and, of course, for the applications which don't quite fit into the utopian world view of they should manage the files you use properly for you ;) Hmmm, ok, here is the situation: - i've got a tablet with usb connectors - ok, let's play, i plug a key and ... nothing happens ... So, i juste want a tiny file manager connected to udev to make an interactive action with users, hello, you've plugged an usb key, what do you want to do ? hmm there are some pictures on device do you want to add it in ~/Pictures (for example) ... But really not for a geek attitude, i already have nautilus on my tablet :) What you suggest here sounds more like a notification / action manager type application, not a file manager though. This sort of thing can make sense to allow the user to switch to applications based on the content found on the newly mounted hardware sure. -- Regards, Martyn Founder and CEO of Lanedo GmbH. ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 14:16:39 +0100 Martyn Russell mar...@lanedo.com wrote: On 01/07/11 13:44, Dan Leinir Turthra Jensen wrote: On Friday 01 Jul 2011 11:36:58 Martyn Russell wrote: On 01/07/11 10:45, Éric Seigne wrote: Hello all, Hello, i'm working on tablet edition. I've not found a file manager or any use of (for example) usb keys ... is there something planned about that ? if not, i'm okay to develop it. What do you plan to use the file manager for? The obtuse answer here is To access the file system... a less obtuse answer is Because I want to ;) From a geek stand point, I completely understand. From a non-geek stand point, I would ask, why does the user need to access the file system? A lot of modern day smart phones work with files but never expose the file system in a way that a conventional file manager does. Ideally, you shouldn't need a file manager at all on the platform, applications should manage the files you use properly for you. This is all well and good for the majority of people... right until you run into the programs which don't play by the rules ;) And we all know how many app devs are out there who don't like the rules (for whatever misguided reason there might be for it, they exist, and we have to deal with them). That's still not a reason to need a file manager. :) One reason is really just to cater for 3rd party apps with file types unsupported as standard by the system (for example). A lot of the concepts of a file manager don't make sense to me on a device like a tablet. Users seldom care *where* their files are, Yes, seldom. But occasionally they do. rather what they're called and that they can find them. Again that's the realm of the applications IMO. Understand, I am playing devil's advocate a little here ;) Indeed, and this is an example of a common design principle in use today. Things are set up to maximize ease of use, and all the technical details are hidden. That is fine for the cases where things work smoothly. But it is not fine for cases where they don't work as expected *at design time*. Then when (not if) unexpected conditions occur, the user typically has no way of even analyzing the problem. Let's not try to prevent people from providing reasonable tools, please. -- Bernd Stramm bernd.str...@gmail.com ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
On 01/07/11 14:36, Éric Seigne wrote: Le 01/07/2011 15:18, Martyn Russell a écrit : Hey, i'm sorry, but do you have a tablet ? if you have it, could you plug a key into usb ? then does your key have only pictures ? or only pdf ? or only odt ? ... all of my keys have a tons of different files and i think notification without file manager is useless ... okay for a notification but then what else ? what appens after notification ? When you connect a USB key you usually want to either copy data locally or use data from USB key. In the former, I personally would prefer the device to sync my data for me and in the later, use the data on the USB key from applications. and an other question: imagine people have a tablet and want make a backup ... (for example on an usb key) ... what is the solution ? You run your backup application, which requires a usb key or some removable storage device. Logically, I wouldn't think of a file manager as the place to start a backup, I would expect that in my list of applications somewhere. -- Regards, Martyn Founder and CEO of Lanedo GmbH. ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
Le 01/07/2011 16:11, Martyn Russell a écrit : When you connect a USB key you usually want to either copy data locally or use data from USB key. In the former, I personally would prefer the device to sync my data for me and in the later, use the data on the USB key from applications. and an other question: imagine people have a tablet and want make a backup ... (for example on an usb key) ... what is the solution ? You run your backup application, which requires a usb key or some removable storage device. Logically, I wouldn't think of a file manager as the place to start a backup, I would expect that in my list of applications somewhere. Okay, so meego don't need a file manager for tablet, thanks a lot, i don't waste my time. good bye, Éric -- -- AbulEdu -- NouvaLinux -- Centre de Formation -- Éric Seigne - Directeur| eric.sei...@ryxeo.com RyXéo SARL | http://www.ryxeo.com 21 avenue M. et E. Dulout | tel +33 6 987 444 01 33600 Pessac - FRANCE | fax +33 9 56 606 607 ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
On 07/01/2011 08:33 AM, Éric Seigne wrote: so meego don't need a file manager for tablet, thanks a lot, i don't waste my time. At the risk of adding more paint to the bikeshed: I think a better answer is that there are no plans to add a file manager as a core component. But a QML meego-ux-based third party utility would not doubt be a valuable contribution and see extensive use by technical users, just as it has on similar platforms. Andy ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
From: Éric Seigne eric.sei...@ryxeo.com To: meego-dev@meego.com Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 10:33 AM Subject: Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition Le 01/07/2011 16:11, Martyn Russell a écrit : When you connect a USB key you usually want to either copy data locally or use data from USB key. In the former, I personally would prefer the device to sync my data for me and in the later, use the data on the USB key from applications. and an other question: imagine people have a tablet and want make a backup ... (for example on an usb key) ... what is the solution ? You run your backup application, which requires a usb key or some removable storage device. Logically, I wouldn't think of a file manager as the place to start a backup, I would expect that in my list of applications somewhere. Okay, so meego don't need a file manager for tablet, thanks a lot, i don't waste my time. good bye, Éric Let me add my voice to those who disagree. Almost every power user I know is very file manager centric, regardless of the platform. And regardless of how exotic the solutions get, even syncing (and man am I on board with transparent syncing!), I still find file managers very, very valuable. I would hope that MeeGo tablet edition ends up with a very powerful one. Randall (Randy) Arnold MeeGo Community Office: Device Program http://texrat.net ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 09:14:17 -0700 Andy Ross a...@plausible.org wrote: On 07/01/2011 08:33 AM, Éric Seigne wrote: so meego don't need a file manager for tablet, thanks a lot, i don't waste my time. At the risk of adding more paint to the bikeshed: I think a better answer is that there are no plans to add a file manager as a core component. But a QML meego-ux-based third party utility would not doubt be a valuable contribution and see extensive use by technical users, just as it has on similar platforms. In addition to that, it would be stupid to prevent people from providing additional tools just because the original designers did not foresee the usefulness. Why discourage people from contributing? ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines -- Bernd Stramm bernd.str...@gmail.com ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
On 7/1/2011 9:29 AM, Bernd Stramm wrote: On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 09:14:17 -0700 Andy Rossa...@plausible.org wrote: On 07/01/2011 08:33 AM, Éric Seigne wrote: so meego don't need a file manager for tablet, thanks a lot, i don't waste my time. At the risk of adding more paint to the bikeshed: I think a better answer is that there are no plans to add a file manager as a core component. But a QML meego-ux-based third party utility would not doubt be a valuable contribution and see extensive use by technical users, just as it has on similar platforms. In addition to that, it would be stupid to prevent people from providing additional tools just because the original designers did not foresee the usefulness. Why discourage people from contributing? sounds also like a perfect app for an AppStore(tm) kind of setup ;-) ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
Le 01/07/2011 18:53, Arjan van de Ven a écrit : On 7/1/2011 9:29 AM, Bernd Stramm wrote: On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 09:14:17 -0700 Andy Rossa...@plausible.org wrote: On 07/01/2011 08:33 AM, Éric Seigne wrote: so meego don't need a file manager for tablet, thanks a lot, i don't waste my time. At the risk of adding more paint to the bikeshed: I think a better answer is that there are no plans to add a file manager as a core component. But a QML meego-ux-based third party utility would not doubt be a valuable contribution and see extensive use by technical users, just as it has on similar platforms. In addition to that, it would be stupid to prevent people from providing additional tools just because the original designers did not foresee the usefulness. Why discourage people from contributing? sounds also like a perfect app for an AppStore(tm) kind of setup ;-) I'll be back :) i'm not discourraged (i'm working in free software developpement since 1997). I've spend some hours translating meego-ux in french ... and i've subscribe to this list only to know why my tablet with 1.2 (developper preview) makes nothing when i plug my usb key ... and how i can add some pictures to meego, import audio mp3, put some documents to hdd and so on. i'm a software developper so i have an idea (and a solution, i've allready hack udev and so on to use my usb keys) ... but i think file manager will miss ... i've got an answer, thanks But, in a really world with really users, could i ask you what can i do with a tablet ? if the answer is only - chat with friends on facebook - send mails on google - chat on MSN ... - view pictures on picasaa - surf the web ... i'm sorry but what a pitty, 500$ for that ? i do the same with 50$ old computer (but no touchscreen) :D meego is really a very very great project, open and free (libre), it means everybody with a good idea could invent some uses of meego, could invent some peace of software ... some news practises, not in closed-world (apple and google one). basics uses of meego-ux lacks (as me and ~10 users here): - full french support (the reason why i'm working on it) - speed-up the interface (cf android 3) - predictive keyboard (maybe already done ?) - hibernation mode - pdf / ebook reader - office support (at least reading doc and odt files) - mp3, avi, x264 (and so on) support - flash is embedded so why not the others non-free-but-must-have tools (or easy to install after OS-install) ? - someting to copy/move/view my data (sorry, i'm an old guy and i think meego open and free sofware must have a file manager, new users who comes from linux or others os are happy to understand where there data are, not in the cloud, not in hidden partition, meego is an open source project, why users can't look at under the face ?) So there is a lot of work, but very very great apps to become, whe discover the easy conversion from Qt desktop apps to meego, for example: http://www.ryxeo.com/IMG/ogg/20110630-nouva_tablette_by_ryxeo_imageo.ogg This is one of our free sofware for primary schools (project here https://redmine.ryxeo.com/projects/leterrier-imageo/repository) and it would be easy to install it on meego devices, some things to modify (opening new windows is a bad idea for example, found solutions for dragdrop ...). And i thing, *this sort of software* could be a real good-future-use for tablet. Librement, Éric -- -- AbulEdu -- NouvaLinux -- Centre de Formation -- Éric Seigne - Directeur| eric.sei...@ryxeo.com RyXéo SARL | http://www.ryxeo.com 21 avenue M. et E. Dulout | tel +33 6 987 444 01 33600 Pessac - FRANCE | fax +33 9 56 606 607 ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
On Friday, July 01, 2011 09:11:29 am Martyn Russell wrote: copy data locally or use data from USB key. In the former, I personally would prefer the device to sync my data for me and in the later, use the data on the USB key from applications. Personally... I have never, ever, EVER encountered a device that can correctly `sync my data.` They always get it wrong, and often delete data. I believe a general purpose sync is impossible, and don't think it's a very good solution. -gabriel ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Gabriel M. Beddingfield gabrb...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday, July 01, 2011 09:11:29 am Martyn Russell wrote: copy data locally or use data from USB key. In the former, I personally would prefer the device to sync my data for me and in the later, use the data on the USB key from applications. Personally... I have never, ever, EVER encountered a device that can correctly `sync my data.` They always get it wrong, and often delete data. I believe a general purpose sync is impossible, and don't think it's a very good solution. And we need to think about convertible models also, those that are netbook and tablet. -gabriel ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines -- Leonardo Luiz Padovani da Mata International Syst S/A Metasys Tecnologia Software Engineer Metasys MeeGo Team leonar...@metasys.com.br +55-31-3503-9040 May the force be with you, always Nerd Pride... eu tenho. Voce tem? ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
On Friday, July 01, 2011 04:33:45 PM Éric Seigne wrote:
Le 01/07/2011 16:11, Martyn Russell a écrit :
When you connect a USB key you usually want to either copy data locally
or use data from USB key. In the former, I personally would prefer the
device to sync my data for me and in the later, use the data on the
USB key from applications.
and an other question: imagine people have a tablet and want make a
backup ... (for example on an usb key) ... what is the solution ?
You run your backup application, which requires a usb key or some
removable storage device. Logically, I wouldn't think of a file
manager as the place to start a backup, I would expect that in my list
of applications somewhere.
Okay,
so meego don't need a file manager for tablet, thanks a lot, i don't
waste my time.
Certainly forcing normal users to interact with a heirarchical file system like
Linux via file managers has been a proven failure, although 'power users' like
the people on this list have no trouble using file managers. But I don't think
we should be designing Meego for people like ourselves.
Plasma Active seems to have got the right idea to me. They are using the
Nepomuk store to have a common way for applications to store their data in a
non application specific way. Then they are using a metaphor of 'activities'
such as 'my photo stuff' or 'my social network stuff' to interact with the
environment as opposed to my '/home/myuser/Documents/something.mp3' which is
pretty low level. The average user doesn't want to see those paths like
'/home/myuser/Document', but they do want the activity of 'my music things' to
just find their mp3's wherever they are, and only show them in a context in
which they make sense.
Recently the Meego project seems to have been trying to de-emphasize Tracker,
which makes it harder for Tracker to be the glue between apps, like KDE
Nepomuk is in Plasma Active, as a basis for enabling activity functionality.
To me this seems a mistake. I recently watched a Steve Jobs video where he
said the meaning of 'focus' was being able to say 'no', and not saying 'yes'
all the time. In my opinion the Meego project needs to be able to focus and
know when it makes sense to say no. That should mean focusing on what the user
experience should be ('Activites'), and knowing when to say no to
functionaltiy which is part of that focus, like 'File Managers' and
'/home/myuser/Documents/something.mp3' being in the user's face.
-- Richard
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Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
On Friday, July 01, 2011 04:33:45 PM Éric Seigne wrote:
Le 01/07/2011 16:11, Martyn Russell a écrit :
When you connect a USB key you usually want to either copy data locally
or use data from USB key. In the former, I personally would prefer the
device to sync my data for me and in the later, use the data on the
USB key from applications.
and an other question: imagine people have a tablet and want make a
backup ... (for example on an usb key) ... what is the solution ?
You run your backup application, which requires a usb key or some
removable storage device. Logically, I wouldn't think of a file
manager as the place to start a backup, I would expect that in my list
of applications somewhere.
Okay,
so meego don't need a file manager for tablet, thanks a lot, i don't
waste my time.
Certainly forcing normal users to interact with a heirarchical file system like
Linux via file managers has been a proven failure, although 'power users' like
the people on this list have no trouble using file managers. But I don't think
we should be designing Meego for people like ourselves.
Plasma Active seems to have got the right idea to me. They are using the
Nepomuk store to have a common way for applications to store their data in a
non application specific way. Then they are using a metaphor of 'activities'
such as 'my photo stuff' or 'my social network stuff' to interact with the
environment as opposed to my '/home/myuser/Documents/something.mp3' which is
pretty low level. The average user doesn't want to see those paths like
'/home/myuser/Document', but they do want the activity of 'my music things' to
just find their mp3's wherever they are, and only show them in a context in
which they make sense.
Recently the Meego project seems to have been trying to de-emphasize Tracker,
which makes it harder for Tracker to be the glue between apps, like KDE
Nepomuk is in Plasma Active, as a basis for enabling activity functionality.
To me this seems a mistake. I recently watched a Steve Jobs video where he
said the meaning of 'focus' was being able to say 'no', and not saying 'yes'
all the time. In my opinion the Meego project needs to be able to focus and
know when it makes sense to say no. That should mean focusing on what the user
experience should be ('Activites'), and knowing when to say no to
functionaltiy which is part of that focus, like 'File Managers' and
'/home/myuser/Documents/something.mp3' being in the user's face.
-- Richard
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Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
On Friday 01 July 2011 22:30:01 Richard Dale wrote: Certainly forcing normal users to interact with a heirarchical file system like Linux via file managers has been a proven failure, although 'power users' like the people on this list have no trouble using file managers. But I don't think we should be designing Meego for people like ourselves. I disagree with your opinion that the interaction with the file system is a failure for regular users. Many user apps, e.g. photo viewer, pdf viewer, etc. need to present the user a representation of the file system, but the key difference is that this representation is customized to be adapted for tablets and a specific app. -- Bogdan Cristea ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
From: Richard Dale richard.d...@telefonica.net
To: meego-dev@meego.com
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
On Friday, July 01, 2011 04:33:45 PM Éric Seigne wrote:
Le 01/07/2011 16:11, Martyn Russell a écrit :
When you connect a USB key you usually want to either copy data locally
or use data from USB key. In the former, I personally would prefer the
device to sync my data for me and in the later, use the data on the
USB key from applications.
and an other question: imagine people have a tablet and want make a
backup ... (for example on an usb key) ... what is the solution ?
You run your backup application, which requires a usb key or some
removable storage device. Logically, I wouldn't think of a file
manager as the place to start a backup, I would expect that in my list
of applications somewhere.
Okay,
so meego don't need a file manager for tablet, thanks a lot, i don't
waste my time.
Certainly forcing normal users to interact with a heirarchical file system
like
Linux via file managers has been a proven failure, although 'power users' like
the people on this list have no trouble using file managers. But I don't think
we should be designing Meego for people like ourselves.
Plasma Active seems to have got the right idea to me. They are using the
Nepomuk store to have a common way for applications to store their data in a
non application specific way. Then they are using a metaphor of 'activities'
such as 'my photo stuff' or 'my social network stuff' to interact with the
environment as opposed to my '/home/myuser/Documents/something.mp3' which is
pretty low level. The average user doesn't want to see those paths like
'/home/myuser/Document', but they do want the activity of 'my music things' to
just find their mp3's wherever they are, and only show them in a context in
which they make sense.
Recently the Meego project seems to have been trying to de-emphasize Tracker,
which makes it harder for Tracker to be the glue between apps, like KDE
Nepomuk is in Plasma Active, as a basis for enabling activity functionality.
To me this seems a mistake. I recently watched a Steve Jobs video where he
said the meaning of 'focus' was being able to say 'no', and not saying 'yes'
all the time. In my opinion the Meego project needs to be able to focus and
know when it makes sense to say no. That should mean focusing on what the user
experience should be ('Activites'), and knowing when to say no to
functionaltiy which is part of that focus, like 'File Managers' and
'/home/myuser/Documents/something.mp3' being in the user's face.
I don't think accommodating average/new users vs power users needs to be
mutually exclusive or burdensome. Provide a contextual approach by default,
with a powerful traditional file manager under the hood.
Randy
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Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
Hi, Stop considering the regular user as a stupid guy/girl that needs to have everything reduced to only one button. Most of the users never had problem to understand and use file managers as soon as they are used to. (Otherwise, windows wouldn't have been used by so much users until today) Stop trying to think in place of a pseudo average joe but instead try to create things that are useful for you and the normal users will follow. It is the current trend for distributions to say: we (as advanced users) wouldn't like this simplification, but we don't care, we target the big basis of stupid peoples, so let's doing something stupid enough for them to be able to understand it without education. This is the biggest failure of KDE4, they are more thinking about doing something not for them but for regular joe in order to have a lot of stupid peoples using it that they lose a lot of users that just want efficient an efficient desktop and not just an eye candy desktop. Another example is F-Spot, it is a false good idea, it was created with the spirit to be more simple to manage your photos (for regular joe) but normal people are bored by that kind of things that needs to have a database and to import your photos and that think in your place for the classification of the photos (ex.: by date, by location, because just having things classified by folder is not user friendly). Users just want Gthumb! One last example of this is Social networks aggregators. Plenty of handset, desktop and devices manufacturers have created that kind of applications to aggregate the streams of all your social networks. For them, it was the killer feature of their products for normal users. But who use this? Almost no one! People just want to use each service(facebook, linkedin, flickr) by itself, in an easy way, and not to have one lonely obscure stupid program showing them all the information from these services as it want it without control. To come back at the subject of the need of a file browser, lets suppose that you had a trip in a foreign country with friends and that now you want to show them all that you have from the trip. Will you prefer to have one folder with all the videos, photos, pdf scan of documents or to open the photo viewer to show them the photos, then go to the video player to browse the videos then to the pdf viewer to browse the pdfs, then to go back in all those applications to export to an usb key or import these data? ++ Florent On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 10:52 PM, Randall Arnold tex...@ovi.com wrote: From: Richard Dale richard.d...@telefonica.net To: meego-dev@meego.com Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 3:30 PM Subject: Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition On Friday, July 01, 2011 04:33:45 PM Éric Seigne wrote: Le 01/07/2011 16:11, Martyn Russell a écrit : When you connect a USB key you usually want to either copy data locally or use data from USB key. In the former, I personally would prefer the device to sync my data for me and in the later, use the data on the USB key from applications. and an other question: imagine people have a tablet and want make a backup ... (for example on an usb key) ... what is the solution ? You run your backup application, which requires a usb key or some removable storage device. Logically, I wouldn't think of a file manager as the place to start a backup, I would expect that in my list of applications somewhere. Okay, so meego don't need a file manager for tablet, thanks a lot, i don't waste my time. Certainly forcing normal users to interact with a heirarchical file system like Linux via file managers has been a proven failure, although 'power users' like the people on this list have no trouble using file managers. But I don't think we should be designing Meego for people like ourselves. Plasma Active seems to have got the right idea to me. They are using the Nepomuk store to have a common way for applications to store their data in a non application specific way. Then they are using a metaphor of 'activities' such as 'my photo stuff' or 'my social network stuff' to interact with the environment as opposed to my '/home/myuser/Documents/something.mp3' which is pretty low level. The average user doesn't want to see those paths like '/home/myuser/Document', but they do want the activity of 'my music things' to just find their mp3's wherever they are, and only show them in a context in which they make sense. Recently the Meego project seems to have been trying to de-emphasize Tracker, which makes it harder for Tracker to be the glue between apps, like KDE Nepomuk is in Plasma Active, as a basis for enabling activity functionality. To me this seems a mistake. I recently watched a Steve Jobs video where he said the meaning of 'focus' was being able to say 'no', and not saying 'yes' all the time. In my opinion the Meego project needs to be able to focus and know when it makes sense to say
Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
Hello Florent To come back at the subject of the need of a file browser, lets suppose that you had a trip in a foreign country with friends and that now you want to show them all that you have from the trip. Will you prefer to have one folder with all the videos, photos, pdf scan of documents or to open the photo viewer to show them the photos, then go to the video player to browse the videos then to the pdf viewer to browse the pdfs, then to go back in all those applications to export to an usb key or import these data? By the other hand there is an averange joe that just want to see a popup with a message import all files when they plug a pen-drive. And this import send the files to the correct program where it will be used (pdf to viewrs, ebook to ereader, photos to gthumb, etc). I agree that we need simple way to do stuff, but we can't think that some users want to have more control to the system. -- Leonardo Luiz Padovani da Mata International Syst S/A Metasys Tecnologia Software Engineer Metasys MeeGo Team leonar...@metasys.com.br +55-31-3503-9040 May the force be with you, always Nerd Pride... eu tenho. Voce tem? ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 1:01 AM, Leonardo Luiz Padovani da Mata leonar...@syst.com.br wrote: Hello Florent To come back at the subject of the need of a file browser, lets suppose that you had a trip in a foreign country with friends and that now you want to show them all that you have from the trip. Will you prefer to have one folder with all the videos, photos, pdf scan of documents or to open the photo viewer to show them the photos, then go to the video player to browse the videos then to the pdf viewer to browse the pdfs, then to go back in all those applications to export to an usb key or import these data? By the other hand there is an averange joe that just want to see a popup with a message import all files when they plug a pen-drive. And this import send the files to the correct program where it will be used (pdf to viewrs, ebook to ereader, photos to gthumb, etc). I agree that we need simple way to do stuff, but we can't think that some users want to have more control to the system. -- Leonardo Luiz Padovani da Mata International Syst S/A Metasys Tecnologia Software Engineer Metasys MeeGo Team leonar...@metasys.com.br +55-31-3503-9040 May the force be with you, always Nerd Pride... eu tenho. Voce tem? By the other hand there is an averange joe that just want to see a popup with a message import all files when they plug a pen-drive. And this import send the files to the correct program where it will be used (pdf to viewrs, ebook to ereader, photos to gthumb, etc). This is exactly the kind of false good idea that I think of: In an ideal world, there would be only the files that will have to be imported on the pen-drive. But in the real world, no one will use this because: - there is other files on the pen-drive. - at least I will want to check the files before importing it. - may be I don't want to copy some of the photos that are private moments with my girlfriend - maybe I have other things to do at the moment and I will be disturbed by the popup. (For example I plugged the key first to save in it a text document that I'm writing, but only after that I will have the time to import the files) ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
On Friday, July 01, 2011 09:52:02 PM you wrote:
From: Richard Dale richard.d...@telefonica.net
To: meego-dev@meego.com
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
On Friday, July 01, 2011 04:33:45 PM Éric Seigne wrote:
Le 01/07/2011 16:11, Martyn Russell a écrit :
When you connect a USB key you usually want to either copy data
locally or use data from USB key. In the former, I personally would
prefer the device to sync my data for me and in the later, use the
data on the USB key from applications.
and an other question: imagine people have a tablet and want make a
backup ... (for example on an usb key) ... what is the solution ?
You run your backup application, which requires a usb key or some
removable storage device. Logically, I wouldn't think of a file
manager as the place to start a backup, I would expect that in my list
of applications somewhere.
Okay,
so meego don't need a file manager for tablet, thanks a lot, i don't
waste my time.
Certainly forcing normal users to interact with a heirarchical file system
like Linux via file managers has been a proven failure, although 'power
users' like the people on this list have no trouble using file managers.
But I don't think we should be designing Meego for people like ourselves.
Plasma Active seems to have got the right idea to me. They are using the
Nepomuk store to have a common way for applications to store their data in
a non application specific way. Then they are using a metaphor of
'activities' such as 'my photo stuff' or 'my social network stuff' to
interact with the environment as opposed to my
'/home/myuser/Documents/something.mp3' which is pretty low level. The
average user doesn't want to see those paths like
'/home/myuser/Document', but they do want the activity of 'my music
things' to just find their mp3's wherever they are, and only show them in
a context in which they make sense.
Recently the Meego project seems to have been trying to de-emphasize
Tracker, which makes it harder for Tracker to be the glue between apps,
like KDE Nepomuk is in Plasma Active, as a basis for enabling activity
functionality. To me this seems a mistake. I recently watched a Steve
Jobs video where he said the meaning of 'focus' was being able to say
'no', and not saying 'yes' all the time. In my opinion the Meego project
needs to be able to focus and know when it makes sense to say no. That
should mean focusing on what the user experience should be ('Activites'),
and knowing when to say no to functionaltiy which is part of that focus,
like 'File Managers' and '/home/myuser/Documents/something.mp3' being in
the user's face.
I don't think accommodating average/new users vs power users needs to be
mutually exclusive or burdensome. Provide a contextual approach by
default, with a powerful traditional file manager under the hood.
I think that would be an example of what Steve Jobs would call 'lack of
focus'. The failure to say 'no' when it makes sense.
I also think the fact that iOS have just dropped letting the users see the file
system without coming up with a compelling alternative like KDE Nepomuk
Activities or something similar with Tracker is one of their biggest competive
weaknesses.
-- Richard
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Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
I think that would be an example of what Steve Jobs would call 'lack of focus'. The failure to say 'no' when it makes sense. I also think the fact that iOS have just dropped letting the users see the file system without coming up with a compelling alternative like KDE Nepomuk Activities or something similar with Tracker is one of their biggest competive weaknesses. We should consider that they design their own device and they have focus on 3 devices only (1 tablet, 1 cellphone and 1 computer). The MeeGo community have to focus on a large variety of devices and users, that's the biggest difference. But the answer to the problems and behavior of users will not be the same, so we need to focus. A file browser could be an optional app enabled on the configuration, so instead of having just the option to import, adding a new option to open in a file browser. -- Richard ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines -- Leonardo Luiz Padovani da Mata International Syst S/A Metasys Tecnologia Software Engineer Metasys MeeGo Team leonar...@metasys.com.br +55-31-3503-9040 May the force be with you, always Nerd Pride... eu tenho. Voce tem? ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
- Original Message -
From: Richard Dale richard.d...@telefonica.net
To: meego-dev@meego.com
Cc:
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
On Friday, July 01, 2011 09:52:02 PM you wrote:
From: Richard Dale richard.d...@telefonica.net
To: meego-dev@meego.com
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
On Friday, July 01, 2011 04:33:45 PM Éric Seigne wrote:
Le 01/07/2011 16:11, Martyn Russell a écrit :
When you connect a USB key you usually want to either copy
data
locally or use data from USB key. In the former, I personally
would
prefer the device to sync my data for me and in the later,
use the
data on the USB key from applications.
and an other question: imagine people have a tablet and
want make a
backup ... (for example on an usb key) ... what is the
solution ?
You run your backup application, which requires a
usb key or some
removable storage device. Logically, I wouldn't think of
a file
manager as the place to start a backup, I would expect that
in my list
of applications somewhere.
Okay,
so meego don't need a file manager for tablet, thanks a lot, i
don't
waste my time.
Certainly forcing normal users to interact with a heirarchical file
system
like Linux via file managers has been a proven failure, although
'power
users' like the people on this list have no trouble using file
managers.
But I don't think we should be designing Meego for people like
ourselves.
Plasma Active seems to have got the right idea to me. They are using
the
Nepomuk store to have a common way for applications to store their data
in
a non application specific way. Then they are using a metaphor of
'activities' such as 'my photo stuff' or 'my social
network stuff' to
interact with the environment as opposed to my
'/home/myuser/Documents/something.mp3' which is pretty low
level. The
average user doesn't want to see those paths like
'/home/myuser/Document', but they do want the activity of
'my music
things' to just find their mp3's wherever they are, and only
show them in
a context in which they make sense.
Recently the Meego project seems to have been trying to de-emphasize
Tracker, which makes it harder for Tracker to be the glue between apps,
like KDE Nepomuk is in Plasma Active, as a basis for enabling activity
functionality. To me this seems a mistake. I recently watched a Steve
Jobs video where he said the meaning of 'focus' was being able
to say
'no', and not saying 'yes' all the time. In my opinion
the Meego project
needs to be able to focus and know when it makes sense to say no. That
should mean focusing on what the user experience should be
('Activites'),
and knowing when to say no to functionaltiy which is part of that
focus,
like 'File Managers' and
'/home/myuser/Documents/something.mp3' being in
the user's face.
I don't think accommodating average/new users vs power users needs to
be
mutually exclusive or burdensome. Provide a contextual approach by
default, with a powerful traditional file manager under the hood.
I think that would be an example of what Steve Jobs would call 'lack of
focus'. The failure to say 'no' when it makes sense.
Jobs has done an admirable job by appealing to a select demographic. But he's
said No at times to things that make sense, and let things through (like the
infamous external iPhone antenna) that made no sense at all. So he's surely
not the one to cite for best practice IMO.
I don't see what I suggested as lack of focus. If anything, it's an example
of focusing on sensible solutions rather than getting hung up on imagining what
hypothetical MeeGo users may or may not want.
Randy
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Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
My CEO here always ask me, ok, if i plug a pen-drive on MeeGo tablet what happend? -- Leonardo Luiz Padovani da Mata International Syst S/A Metasys Tecnologia Software Engineer Metasys MeeGo Team leonar...@metasys.com.br +55-31-3503-9040 May the force be with you, always Nerd Pride... eu tenho. Voce tem? ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
On 7/1/2011 3:43 PM, Florent Viard wrote: Hi, Stop considering the regular user as a stupid guy/girl that needs to have everything reduced to only one button. Most of the users never had problem to understand and use file managers as soon as they are used to. (Otherwise, windows wouldn't have been used by so much users until today) Stop trying to think in place of a pseudo average joe but instead try to create things that are useful for you and the normal users will follow. It is the current trend for distributions to say: we (as advanced users) wouldn't like this simplification, but we don't care, we target the big basis of stupid peoples, so let's doing something stupid enough for them to be able to understand it without education. AMEN. I have been complaining about this for a while, and am this close to making a tshirt, or even a big banner with I AM A USER TOO on it. An open source project CANNOT ignore open source enthusiast (note that I do not limit myself to coders) as one of its key constituencies/targets even if the market share of those for your product might be low, these are the people that - tell you what is wrong with your product rather than just walking away - send you cohesive bugreports - ... often in diff -u form - translate for you - tell all their friends how cool this device is and that they should get one too - influence the high-tech press, which in turn influences the mainstream press I know that some people think that the early adopter is dead in this day and age, but I am not convinced of that yet. I also know that some people think that there is an exclusive-OR between the user and the open source enthusiast. Nothing is more from the truth. Even Apple gets this right and makes an OS that is surprisingly usable by hardcore open source hackers. ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
Re: [MeeGo-dev] File manager for Tablet Edition
- Original Message - From: Arjan van de Ven ar...@linux.intel.com AMEN. I have been complaining about this for a while, and am this close to making a tshirt, or even a big banner with I AM A USER TOO on it. An open source project CANNOT ignore open source enthusiast (note that I do not limit myself to coders) as one of its key constituencies/targets even if the market share of those for your product might be low, these are the people that - tell you what is wrong with your product rather than just walking away - send you cohesive bugreports - ... often in diff -u form - translate for you - tell all their friends how cool this device is and that they should get one too - influence the high-tech press, which in turn influences the mainstream press I know that some people think that the early adopter is dead in this day and age, but I am not convinced of that yet. I also know that some people think that there is an exclusive-OR between the user and the open source enthusiast. Nothing is more from the truth. Even Apple gets this right and makes an OS that is surprisingly usable by hardcore open source hackers. A huge +1 Arjan. That says it all IMO. Randy ___ MeeGo-dev mailing list MeeGo-dev@meego.com http://lists.meego.com/listinfo/meego-dev http://wiki.meego.com/Mailing_list_guidelines
