Re: [MBZ] GL pricing and fixing and shifting Whitworth

[Fmiser]

> > On 18/08/12 12:44, Fmiser wrote:
> >
> > Kinda like dealing with Whitworth fasteners.

> Hendrik wrote:

> That's what shifters are for.

I had to look that one up.  It's a new term for me.

Best I can tell, in the USA it's typically called a Cresent (TM)
wrench [spanner].  Or to avoid the trademarked name it is called
an "adjustable wrench" [spanner].

http://www.canstockphoto.com/cresent-wrench-0220816.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjustable_spanner

Am I right?

--   Philip

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[MBZ] Worth watching

[RELNGSON]

 
 http://www.youtube.com/embed/GInf0lXsyKY?feature=player_embedded

RLE
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Re: [MBZ] GL pricing and fixing with a 9/16 spanner

[Hendrik & Fay]

Anything that ain't metric is imperial.
Although usually called AF around these parts, usually with a nasty word 
in front of it.


Hendrik
who has both metric and AF tools and might even have a Whitworth spanner 
or two rusting away somewhere


On 18/08/12 13:03, Dieselhead wrote:
oooh  YUK  I have not had contact with imperial or any of the other 
weird british size wrenched since I dumped my almost new turnip 41 
years ago in favor of the BMW R50/2.


USA uses/used SAE sizes.  We threw out Imperial with da king georg.

"Bama stuff is all ISO metric.




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Re: [MBZ] GL fixing

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

I have the dealer laptop system 

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 17, 2012, at 11:42 PM, relng...@aol.com wrote:

>> ..Why is that? End of the day the principles are the same it's just the
>> tools and the cost of parts is different...
>> 
> Because identifying iffy electronics is done by plugging in a dealer laptop 
> and reading the real trouble codes. The cost of service and repair parts 
> when sourced in the aftermarket takes the sting out of MB service costs.
> 
> As one glowing example, the MANN activated charcoal cabin air filter costs 
> about 60 bucks at the dealer and about 16 bucks elsewhere. Same ratio with 
> engine air and oil filters. And M1 0W40 can periodically be found on sale for 
> about six bucks per quart.
> 
> RLE
> 
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Re: [MBZ] GL fixing

[RELNGSON]

> ..Why is that? End of the day the principles are the same it's just the
> tools and the cost of parts is different...
> 
Because identifying iffy electronics is done by plugging in a dealer laptop 
and reading the real trouble codes. The cost of service and repair parts 
when sourced in the aftermarket takes the sting out of MB service costs.

As one glowing example, the MANN activated charcoal cabin air filter costs 
about 60 bucks at the dealer and about 16 bucks elsewhere. Same ratio with 
engine air and oil filters. And M1 0W40 can periodically be found on sale for 
about six bucks per quart.

RLE

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Re: [MBZ] GL pricing and fixing

[Frederick Moir]

I have an universal adjustable wrench that rounds-off all sorts of nuts and 
bolts, BA/Whitworth/Metric/SAE/Unified no problem .
 
Fred Moir
Lynn MA
Diesel preferred.


>
> From: Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com>
>To: Mercedes Discussion List  
>Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 11:33 PM
>Subject: Re: [MBZ] GL pricing and fixing
> 
>oooh  YUK  I have not had contact with imperial or any of the other 
>weird british size wrenched since I dumped my almost new turnip 41 
>years ago in favor of the BMW R50/2.
>
>USA uses/used SAE sizes.  We threw out Imperial with da king georg.
>
>"Bama stuff is all ISO metric.
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] GL pricing and fixing

[Rick Knoble]

On Aug 17, 2012, at 10:47 PM, "Dieselhead" <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

> any of the other weird british size wrench


That would be "Whitworth". Yeah, I've owned British iron before. 

Rick
Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [MBZ] GL pricing and fixing

[Dieselhead]

oooh  YUK  I have not had contact with imperial or any of the other 
weird british size wrenched since I dumped my almost new turnip 41 
years ago in favor of the BMW R50/2.


USA uses/used SAE sizes.  We threw out Imperial with da king georg.

"Bama stuff is all ISO metric.


Why is that? End of the day the principles are the same it's just 
the tools and the cost of parts is different.
Which makes me wonder, if a Merc is assembled in the US of A is it 
made out of imperial nuts and bolts or metric?
Probably need something like this to properly work on them 
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BGS-Germany-171-pieces-Ratchet-Wrench-Tool-Socket-Set-/120660290661?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c17e9ec65


Hendrik
who has one of those tool kits

On 18/08/12 06:31, relng...@aol.com wrote:
I presume the vehicle has some sort of warranty? These are not very 
amenable to DIY. RLE







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Re: [MBZ] GL pricing and fixing and shifting Whitworth

[Hendrik & Fay]

That's what shifters are for.

Hendrik
who has a few shifters

On 18/08/12 12:44, Fmiser wrote:
Kinda like dealing with Whitworth fasteners. -- Philip 




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Re: [MBZ] GL pricing and fixing

[Fmiser]

> Hendrik & Fay wrote:

> Which makes me wonder, if a Merc is assembled in the US of A
> is it made out of imperial nuts and bolts or metric?

Odd as it may seem, automobiles have been using metric since the
mid 1980's.  For a few years there it was a bit annoying though
as some fasteners were metric and some SAE (fractional inch).
So the bolts holding the alternator bracket to the block are
SAE, but the bolt through the bracket into the alternator is
metric.

Kinda like dealing with Whitworth fasteners.

--   Philip

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Re: [MBZ] 190D continuing saga

[Frederick Moir]

Curt.
It could be mailed in a trice!
Test thoroughly, and if it proves worthy, use it. ( And buy a new one from 
Rusty as a spare.)
Address?
 
Fred Moir
Lynn MA
Diesel preferred.


>
> From: Curt Raymond 
>To: Diesel List  
>Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 6:13 PM
>Subject: Re: [MBZ] 190D continuing saga
> 
>First thing I did was a thermostat, then a radiator, the old one leaked a 
>little anyway so it was worth doing. I can see the temp gradient across the 
>radiator from inlet to outlet.
>
>Would a little air pocket stick around for months of driving? It sure acts 
>like an air pocket...
>
>Interestingly on the way home with the AC on it behaved better. I'm thinking 
>the fan clutch doesn't engage which was my problem last night. I know the fan 
>clutch works (201s have an electro-magnetic fan clutch) because I can actuate 
>it by grounding its sensor. I'm thinking I might wire up a light to tell me 
>when the clutch is engaged. Which should tell me if the sensor works.
>
>I still think the temp sensor for the gauge is bad, at best it reads 10C high. 
>Maybe I should catch up with Fred and get his spare. Or maybe I should just 
>pony up the $20 to buy a new one from Rusty.
>
>-Curt
>
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Re: [MBZ] 190D continuing saga

[Fmiser]

> Curt Raymond wrote:

> I still think the temp sensor for the gauge is bad, at best it
> reads 10C high.

Have you checked ground connections?  It should effect a lot
more than the temp gauge, but maybe that's the only one that's
catching your attention.

If it were my car, I would want to be confident of that
connection anyway.

--   Philip, always well grounded  (hah!)

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Re: [MBZ] GL pricing and fixing

[Hendrik & Fay]

Why is that? End of the day the principles are the same it's just the 
tools and the cost of parts is different.
Which makes me wonder, if a Merc is assembled in the US of A is it made 
out of imperial nuts and bolts or metric?
Probably need something like this to properly work on them 
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BGS-Germany-171-pieces-Ratchet-Wrench-Tool-Socket-Set-/120660290661?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c17e9ec65


Hendrik
who has one of those tool kits

On 18/08/12 06:31, relng...@aol.com wrote:
I presume the vehicle has some sort of warranty? These are not very 
amenable to DIY. RLE







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Re: [MBZ] I found just the car for Jaime

[Hendrik & Fay]

Don't forget Angel gear.

Hendrik
who doesn't use Angel gear, much

On 18/08/12 00:36, Alex Chamberlain wrote:

On Aug 17, 2012 7:24 AM, "Kaleb C. Striplin" <
kaleb.strip...@drivedominion.com> wrote:


http://fayar.craigslist.org/cto/3208687723.html


Five speeds including reverse?

Alex






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Re: [MBZ] heavy metal OT - TVs

[Hendrik & Fay]

There is some metal in old CRT's. seen plenty of em smashed up to get at 
the metal inside, that's why the councils have been trying to ban people 
from sticking them on the verge.


Hendrik
who always obeys the council by laws

On 18/08/12 00:32, Mitch Haley wrote:

Curt Raymond wrote:
The mistake is giving it away. If it had a sign that said $50 
somebody would steal it.


We do that with the old worn out lawnmowers on the farm. 


Lawnmowers are worth something for scrap metal.
No reason to stop the honest folks from having a chance at it.







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Re: [MBZ] OT TVs

[Dan Penoff]

Among other things.  Trace amounts of mercury, too, I believe.

We have thousands of CRT monitors in the school district, and I am pretty sure 
we shell out big bucks to have them recycled.

Dan


On Aug 17, 2012, at 9:34 PM, OK Don wrote:

> Lead content?
> 
> On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 8:31 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> You are lucky.  most places quit taking CRT a year or two ago, maybe more.
>> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT TVs

[OK Don]

Lead content?

On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 8:31 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

> You are lucky.  most places quit taking CRT a year or two ago, maybe more.
>
>
>
>  Try a different one? They took a 23" TV, two 12" Sony studio monitors, and
>> a  19" monitor last October here.
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 8:16 PM, Dan Penoff  wrote:
>>
>>   They no longer take CRT type TVs down here.  I'm not sure how long that
>>>  has been in effect, but I know they don't because I tried to drop one
>>> off
>>>  there when we were moving into the house.
>>>
>>>  Dan
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  On Aug 17, 2012, at 9:10 PM, OK Don wrote:
>>>
>>>  > Good Will will take almost anything, unload it for you, and say thank
>>>  you.
>>>  > They took a bunch of old electronic junk, including CRT monitors and
>>> TVs
>>>  > when we moved last year.
>>>  >
>>>
>>>
>>>  __**_
>>>  http://www.okiebenz.com
>>>  For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>>>  To search list archives 
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>>>
>>>  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>>  
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> OK Don
>> 2001 ML320
>> 2012 Passat TDI DSG
>> 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
>> __**_
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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>> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>>
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>>
>
>
> __**_
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>
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-- 
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2001 ML320
2012 Passat TDI DSG
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] Speaking of 40 years ago....

[OK Don]

Oh, yes - you are right, not arguing that. Mine wsa the same then, but with
42HP and light weight wheels.
Yup, kick start it whether you had a battery or not. Earl forks keep the
ride level when braking. I had the six gallon tank and the wide buddy seat
also. Great bike in it's day. I didn't like the drum brakes - always
grabbed after a damp or rainy night. Dumpd me a couple of times first thing
in the morning trying to clean the front brakes.

On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yabbut,  the /2 was the OM621/OM616 of motorsickles.   It didn't care if
> the battery was in or out.  You needed nothing but a leg to start it.  turn
> on the gas, Tickle the carbs, kick it and go.  The /5 was like a 124.  Much
> nicer and more refined, but more finicky, and more expensive to maintain.
>
> I loved the magneto in the /2.  If anyone made a kit to put a magneto in a
> /5, I'd have it.  My /2 had the wide buddy seat.  with that and the earles
> forks, it was a great ride.  All 26 DIN HP.
>
> I am looking for a good International H Magneto.  I would convert my coil
> ign H back to a mag in a heartbeat.  It does not run enough to be worth a
> battery.  As it is now, if I want to run it, I have to steal a battery from
> something else, and the 49 battery does not fit.
>
>
>  I bought a '62 R69S 41 years ago - sold it to my brother who was shipping
>> to Germany to play with Persing missles. He sold it there after four
>> years.
>> No elecrtic starter - barely enough electric to run the lights.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> --
>> OK Don
>> 2001 ML320
>> 2012 Passat TDI DSG
>> 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
>>
>
> __**_
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>
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>



-- 
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2001 ML320
2012 Passat TDI DSG
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] OT TVs

[Dieselhead]

You are lucky.  most places quit taking CRT a year or two ago, maybe more.



Try a different one? They took a 23" TV, two 12" Sony studio monitors, and
a  19" monitor last October here.

On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 8:16 PM, Dan Penoff  wrote:


 They no longer take CRT type TVs down here.  I'm not sure how long that
 has been in effect, but I know they don't because I tried to drop one off
 there when we were moving into the house.

 Dan



 On Aug 17, 2012, at 9:10 PM, OK Don wrote:

 > Good Will will take almost anything, unload it for you, and say thank
 you.
 > They took a bunch of old electronic junk, including CRT monitors and TVs
 > when we moved last year.
 >


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--
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2001 ML320
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Re: [MBZ] OT TVs

[Dan Penoff]

They have signs up at the Goodwill location in town, and at the collection 
trailer at the local Walmart.  "No TVs".

I suspect they got tired of getting bum TVs and then having to pay for the 
disposal.

Dan

On Aug 17, 2012, at 9:20 PM, OK Don wrote:

> Try a different one? They took a 23" TV, two 12" Sony studio monitors, and
> a  19" monitor last October here.
> 
> On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 8:16 PM, Dan Penoff  wrote:
> 
>> They no longer take CRT type TVs down here.  I'm not sure how long that
>> has been in effect, but I know they don't because I tried to drop one off
>> there when we were moving into the house.
>> 
>> Dan
>> 


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Re: [MBZ] Speaking of 40 years ago....

[Dieselhead]

Yabbut,  the /2 was the OM621/OM616 of motorsickles.   It didn't care 
if the battery was in or out.  You needed nothing but a leg to start 
it.  turn on the gas, Tickle the carbs, kick it and go.  The /5 was 
like a 124.  Much nicer and more refined, but more finicky, and more 
expensive to maintain.


I loved the magneto in the /2.  If anyone made a kit to put a magneto 
in a /5, I'd have it.  My /2 had the wide buddy seat.  with that and 
the earles forks, it was a great ride.  All 26 DIN HP.


I am looking for a good International H Magneto.  I would convert my 
coil ign H back to a mag in a heartbeat.  It does not run enough to 
be worth a battery.  As it is now, if I want to run it, I have to 
steal a battery from something else, and the 49 battery does not fit.




I bought a '62 R69S 41 years ago - sold it to my brother who was shipping
to Germany to play with Persing missles. He sold it there after four years.
No elecrtic starter - barely enough electric to run the lights.

On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

--
OK Don
2001 ML320
2012 Passat TDI DSG
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager


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Re: [MBZ] OT TVs

[OK Don]

Try a different one? They took a 23" TV, two 12" Sony studio monitors, and
a  19" monitor last October here.

On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 8:16 PM, Dan Penoff  wrote:

> They no longer take CRT type TVs down here.  I'm not sure how long that
> has been in effect, but I know they don't because I tried to drop one off
> there when we were moving into the house.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> On Aug 17, 2012, at 9:10 PM, OK Don wrote:
>
> > Good Will will take almost anything, unload it for you, and say thank
> you.
> > They took a bunch of old electronic junk, including CRT monitors and TVs
> > when we moved last year.
> >
>
>
> ___
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>
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2001 ML320
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1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] 190D continuing saga

[OK Don]

There's also the possibility that the thermostat housing is corroded to the
point that the thermostat doesn't close the top port when it's fully open,
preventing full circulation of the coolant. I've never seen/experienced
this myself, but have read about it - here - though several years ago.

On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 6:34 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

> You may have replaced bad with bad. Did you test old and new? They can be
>> bad right out of the box.
>> --
>> Max Dillon
>> Charleston SC
>> '95 E300
>> '87 300TD
>>
>
> I think Curt found with the IR thermometer, that the thermostat appears to
> be working ok.
>
>
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2001 ML320
2012 Passat TDI DSG
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] OT TVs

[Dan Penoff]

They no longer take CRT type TVs down here.  I'm not sure how long that has 
been in effect, but I know they don't because I tried to drop one off there 
when we were moving into the house.

Dan



On Aug 17, 2012, at 9:10 PM, OK Don wrote:

> Good Will will take almost anything, unload it for you, and say thank you.
> They took a bunch of old electronic junk, including CRT monitors and TVs
> when we moved last year.
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT TVs

[OK Don]

Good Will will take almost anything, unload it for you, and say thank you.
They took a bunch of old electronic junk, including CRT monitors and TVs
when we moved last year.

On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 4:30 PM, Dan Penoff  wrote:

> Or leave them on the curb the night before the garbage pickup and let the
> pickers take it.  I've been able to dispose of a couple of CRT TVs this way
> - taping the remote to the top probably helped.
>
> We used to have some woman in a 5 series BMW pick trash in our
> neighborhood a few years ago...
>
> Dan
>
>
> On Aug 17, 2012, at 5:20 PM, relng...@aol.com wrote:
>
> > You have to pay a fee most places to get rid of a CRT TV since they have
> no
> > value.
> >
> > RLE
> > ___
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> >
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-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
2012 Passat TDI DSG
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] no US manufacturing?

[OK Don]

Last I heard, Ford and GM were still building cars here, as well as
Chrysler, not that they're an American company anymore. My VW was built
here as well - build 'em where you sell 'em seems to be the model now.

On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 4:28 PM, Dimitri Seretakis wrote:

> Interestingly, none of those companies are American. American companies
> obviously have less interest in sustaining American jobs than do the
> foreigners.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 16, 2012, at 11:05 PM, relng...@aol.com wrote:
>
> This is yet another example of why there is no manufacturing in the
> US anymore, nobody is stupid enough to try to do it...
>
> Do you mean that the Honda, Toyota, BMW and Mercedes plants here are all
> imaginary?
>
> And that the 2014 C-Class to be built in Alabama is a dirty lie? Oh, I
> forgot the Sprinter which has driven the Ford box van off the market.
>
> RLE
>
>
> ___
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>
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>
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-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
2012 Passat TDI DSG
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] Speaking of 40 years ago....

[OK Don]

I bought a '62 R69S 41 years ago - sold it to my brother who was shipping
to Germany to play with Persing missles. He sold it there after four years.
No elecrtic starter - barely enough electric to run the lights.

On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 9:49 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:

> 40 years ago today, I got my R75/5.  It was originally Silber mit blau
>  but I later changed it to traditional BMW R_ colors.  It still has only
> ~30k miles.  Avon full fairing.  Pretty rare these days.
>
> Traded off the R50/2 for it.  Some things about the /2 I still like
> better, but the lectrik starter was always nice.  However on the /2, I
> could kick start it standing over it at a stop if I killed it. Something
> not quite anatomically feasible with the /5 and later.
>
> __**_
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> http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/
>
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>



-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
2012 Passat TDI DSG
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] 190D continuing saga

[Dieselhead]

You may have replaced bad with bad. Did you test old and new? They 
can be bad right out of the box.

--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300
'87 300TD


I think Curt found with the IR thermometer, that the thermostat 
appears to be working ok.


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Re: [MBZ] 190D continuing saga

[Dieselhead]

This sounds exactly like a bad temp sensor or bad relay (most likely 
the "sensor" which is only a switch in this case).


It's possible it has an air pocket, but that's easy to fix -- 
squeeze the upper radiator hose flat (engine cold, of course) and 
crimp the small top line from the radiator to the coolant tank shut, 
then release the upper hose and let it expand back to normal.  This 
pulls coolant off the bottom of the rad into the block.  Repeat 
until it stops sucking coolant out of the tank when you let go.


Those electro-magnetic clutches can be a pain.

Peter


It seems to me, that after the results of cleaning the temp sender 
and terminal, combined with the results of the IR thermometer, that 
you have symptoms of only faulty readouts.


I'd say you can live with it, or try a new/different sender. (maybe 
replace the connector too)


It also seems you have a problem with the electric fan switching, If 
I read that post correctly.


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Re: [MBZ] 190D continuing saga

[Max Dillon]

You may have replaced bad with bad. Did you test old and new? They can be bad 
right out of the box.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300
'87 300TD

Curt Raymond  wrote:

These symptoms have been going on for about 2 years now. Last spring I replaced 
the thermostat with no change in symptoms.

-Curt

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 16:47:25 -0400
From: Max Dillon 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 190D continuing saga
Message-ID: <9a0368c1-3a0d-430e-a168-251f372b0...@email.android.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

I'd test the thermostat first, then consider the water pump.

Do you know the spec for how wide it should open and at which temperature? I'll 
dig around, should have that somewhere.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300
'87 300TD


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Re: [MBZ] 190D continuing saga

[Max Dillon]

If you've driven up a hill or two, I doubt there is any air pocket.

After testing the thermostat, I'd try a citric acid flush before replacing the 
water pump. Fan is really only needed at low speed if the rest of the system is 
healthy.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300
'87 300TD

Curt Raymond  wrote:

First thing I did was a thermostat, then a radiator, the old one leaked a 
little anyway so it was worth doing. I can see the temp gradient across the 
radiator from inlet to outlet.

Would a little air pocket stick around for months of driving? It sure acts like 
an air pocket...

Interestingly on the way home with the AC on it behaved better. I'm thinking 
the fan clutch doesn't engage which was my problem last night. I know the fan 
clutch works (201s have an electro-magnetic fan clutch) because I can actuate 
it by grounding its sensor. I'm thinking I might wire up a light to tell me 
when the clutch is engaged. Which should tell me if the sensor works.

I still think the temp sensor for the gauge is bad, at best it reads 10C high. 
Maybe I should catch up with Fred and get his spare. Or maybe I should just 
pony up the $20 to buy a new one from Rusty.

-Curt



Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 11:35:40 -0500
From: Peter Hertzing 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 190D continuing saga
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Sorry Curt - coming into this late so I don't mean to be redundent. From
the sound of the description below - you have already done some work. My
first stop is always at the work I have done, making sure you have a fully
bled system with no air pockets. You already have the IR thermometer, so
the next think I would do would be to check the temp across the radiator,
looking for a cool spot. While unlikely, you could hae a colapsing
radiator hose restricting flow.

Gould luck, I hate these gremlins. I currently have a randomly overheating
limo where the cooling fan doesn't turn on and it over heats - but by the
time you look at it the fan has come on and won't go off and works
perfectly. Definitly annoying.

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] 190D continuing saga

[Peter Frederick]

This sounds exactly like a bad temp sensor or bad relay (most likely  
the "sensor" which is only a switch in this case).


It's possible it has an air pocket, but that's easy to fix -- squeeze  
the upper radiator hose flat (engine cold, of course) and crimp the  
small top line from the radiator to the coolant tank shut, then  
release the upper hose and let it expand back to normal.  This pulls  
coolant off the bottom of the rad into the block.  Repeat until it  
stops sucking coolant out of the tank when you let go.


Those electro-magnetic clutches can be a pain.

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] 190D continuing saga

[Curt Raymond]

'84 2.2l auto trans

-Curt

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 16:49:58 -0400
From: Max Dillon 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 190D continuing saga
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

What year, and engine?
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300
'87 300TD

Curt Raymond  wrote:

So yesterday morning things seemed good, temp stayed below 100C.
Last night on the way home I got stuck in heavy traffic and the temp hung 
around 110C with trips up to the white line just before the red line.

It was cool out, maybe 65F so outside temp is not much of a factor.

One time it was getting high, I was running the cabin heat which was blowing 
hot air really well but making no difference and in desperation I slipped the 
trans into neutral and revved the engine which brought the temp down about 10C 
degrees really quickly.

I didn't pull over and check the temp with my IR thermometer which I should 
have (looking weird on the side of the road be dammed) but my experience thus 
far shows that the relative position of the temp gauge is right, meaning as it 
rises the temp is really rising, although the gauge itself is usually off about 
10C. So the car probably wasn't really overheating like I was afraid of but in 
the moment you get nervous...

Anyway the revving thing makes me wonder if I haven't got a defective water 
pump. I can't see where its leaking and the coolant doesn't go down a 
noticeable amount.

I suppose what I really need to do is replace the temp sensor but even a sensor 
not giving me the right temp is still giving me information that says the temp 
of the engine varies rather a lot (confirmed with the IR thermometer).

Ideas?

-Curt

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Re: [MBZ] 190D continuing saga

[Curt Raymond]

These symptoms have been going on for about 2 years now. Last spring I replaced 
the thermostat with no change in symptoms.

-Curt

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 16:47:25 -0400
From: Max Dillon 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 190D continuing saga
Message-ID: <9a0368c1-3a0d-430e-a168-251f372b0...@email.android.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

I'd test the thermostat first, then consider the water pump.

Do you know the spec for how wide it should open and at which temperature? I'll 
dig around, should have that somewhere.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300
'87 300TD


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Re: [MBZ] 190D continuing saga

[Curt Raymond]

Crudded up with what exactly? I've replaced pretty much all the coolant twice, 
it came out mostly clean both times.

-Curt

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 15:03:27 -0400
From: Dan Penoff 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 190D continuing saga
Message-ID: <19a35259-d673-40d3-97a4-71bf78e78...@yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii

It's not the radiator's fault if it's crudded up...


Dan


On Aug 17, 2012, at 2:02 PM, "Rusty Cullens"  wrote:

> The radiator is only 9 months old. I hope it isn't that.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
> On Behalf Of Dan Penoff
> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 1:43 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] 190D continuing saga
> 
> I would definitely focus on the radiator. If you have some blocked or
> clogged tubes it can manifest itself as you describe.
> 
> Your IR thermometer will tell you right away if you catch it while it is
> close to overheating.
> 
> Look especially close at the center of the radiator.
> 
> Dan

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Re: [MBZ] 190D continuing saga

[Curt Raymond]

First thing I did was a thermostat, then a radiator, the old one leaked a 
little anyway so it was worth doing. I can see the temp gradient across the 
radiator from inlet to outlet.

Would a little air pocket stick around for months of driving? It sure acts like 
an air pocket...

Interestingly on the way home with the AC on it behaved better. I'm thinking 
the fan clutch doesn't engage which was my problem last night. I know the fan 
clutch works (201s have an electro-magnetic fan clutch) because I can actuate 
it by grounding its sensor. I'm thinking I might wire up a light to tell me 
when the clutch is engaged. Which should tell me if the sensor works.

I still think the temp sensor for the gauge is bad, at best it reads 10C high. 
Maybe I should catch up with Fred and get his spare. Or maybe I should just 
pony up the $20 to buy a new one from Rusty.

-Curt



Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 11:35:40 -0500
From: Peter Hertzing 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 190D continuing saga
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Sorry Curt - coming into this late so I don't mean to be redundent.  From
the sound of the description below - you have already done some work.  My
first stop is always at the work I have done, making sure you have a fully
bled system with no air pockets.  You already have the IR thermometer, so
the next think I would do would be to check the temp across the radiator,
looking for a cool spot.  While unlikely, you could hae a colapsing
radiator hose restricting flow.

Gould luck, I hate these gremlins.  I currently have a randomly overheating
limo where the cooling fan doesn't turn on and it over heats - but by the
time you look at it the fan has come on and won't go off and works
perfectly.  Definitly annoying.

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] OT - TVs

[Curt Raymond]

I learned this trick when I put one out for "free" which sat for 3 whole days 
at which time I changed the sign to "$50" and it was gone the next day.

The kind of people who would take it seem to appreciate a challenge.

-Curt

Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 11:02:57 -0400
From: Mitch Haley 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - TVs
Message-ID: <502e5d21.80...@voyager.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Curt Raymond wrote:
> The mistake is giving it away. If it had a sign that said $50 somebody would 
> steal it.
> 
> We do that with the old worn out lawnmowers on the farm. 

Lawnmowers are worth something for scrap metal.
No reason to stop the honest folks from having a chance at it.

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Re: [MBZ] OT TVs

[Dan Penoff]

Or leave them on the curb the night before the garbage pickup and let the 
pickers take it.  I've been able to dispose of a couple of CRT TVs this way - 
taping the remote to the top probably helped.

We used to have some woman in a 5 series BMW pick trash in our neighborhood a 
few years ago...

Dan


On Aug 17, 2012, at 5:20 PM, relng...@aol.com wrote:

> You have to pay a fee most places to get rid of a CRT TV since they have no 
> value.
> 
> RLE
> ___
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Re: [MBZ] no US manufacturing?

[Dimitri Seretakis]

Interestingly, none of those companies are American. American companies 
obviously have less interest in sustaining American jobs than do the foreigners.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 16, 2012, at 11:05 PM, relng...@aol.com wrote:

This is yet another example of why there is no manufacturing in the 
US anymore, nobody is stupid enough to try to do it...

Do you mean that the Honda, Toyota, BMW and Mercedes plants here are all 
imaginary?

And that the 2014 C-Class to be built in Alabama is a dirty lie? Oh, I 
forgot the Sprinter which has driven the Ford box van off the market.

RLE


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Re: [MBZ] OT TVs

[RELNGSON]

You have to pay a fee most places to get rid of a CRT TV since they have no 
value.

RLE
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Re: [MBZ] GL pricing

[John Freer]

The GL is built on the ML platform. The R is built on the W212
platform but no longer offered for sale here in the USA.

BTW, I just had a GLK for a loaner and I really liked it! Good ride,
fast and handled well. It was not a 4-matic.
John

On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 2:01 PM,   wrote:
>> ..Hahahaha yep, and that 61 is the base I imagine without all the
>> optional..
>>
> Keep in mind that the GLK and W204 are on the same platform whereas the GL
> might be compared to a W212 4-matic.
>
> My C300 cost $41600 before tax & license which was sticker and then the
> next year the bottom dropped out and MB was discounting everything heavily 
> thus
> killing used values. I saw a couple of C63s with $15K off sticker.
>
> I presume the vehicle has some sort of warranty? These are not very
> amenable to DIY.
>
> RLE
>>
>>
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Re: [MBZ] filters

[RELNGSON]

> ...Anyway I would think the air filters are at the end of the air intake
> hoses, which are on top of the engine, wonder where the boxes such in
> the air, for off road work you need em up high...
> 
The filters are in the lift off engine cover like all the V-6s.. Easy 
access. The location of the cabin air filter is unknown to me but it likely 
needs 
changing and they are not expensive.

RLE
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Classes

[RELNGSON]

> Bad luck Roger, you'd think that there would be an age restriction or
> different classes. One thing to keep a car spotless for a month or two but 
> do that for 5
> years and it shows some sort of manic disorder.
> I take it you don't keep pigeons? Perhaps next time around one will drop
> a bomb on the SLK >insert evil laugh...
> 
MB Club events just group them by model year which is OK with me and it 
wasn't a real Concours since the club has no qualified judges and the average 
MB owner wouldn't know how to prepare their car anyway. The overall winner 
was a restored 540K which was a treat. Arrived and departed properly in an 
enclosed trailer.

As to manic disorders, it's just a hobby, widespread across the country. My 
Porsche's 28th birthday will be in October and it's in the same condition 
as my MB but it's been a hangar queen for a long time because the MB is so 
much more civilized and the clear choice for any kind of travel. 

RLE

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[MBZ] Carmax

[Fredd]

As I said in my previous answer, I have no experience with other Carmax 
stores, just this local one.

And yes that was a bribe.

Fredd



Sounds like a local problem, not like a nation-wide policy of Carmax. The 
$250 offer sounds like a bribe to me.

--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300
'87 300TD

Fredd  wrote:

Max,

It's very simple, the responsability.
If the MB/independent dealer finds for 10 problem points, then according 
to

Carmax their own advertising, they should correct these 10 points.
But when Carmax only repairs the most important/dangerous points, and not
the other points, then they can when the customer later complains about 
the

other points, put the fault on the dealer/independent for supposedly not
finding those points during the PPI.
I've personally seen how the local Carmax opperates with PPIs.
When I was still (small) co-owner in an independent shop, they send one of
their managers to the shop and he offered $250 for each car the shop would
approve off, even when the car would never come to the shop.
The local Carmax will also not let the potential buyer take the car for a
PPI, but they will send their own people with the car for a PPI.

I don't say that all Car max places are like that.

Fredd




This doesn't make any sense to me. Why would a dealer refuse pay for a
PPI? I think they are simply trying to damage Carmax in any way they can
for competitive reasons.
--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300
'87 300TD

Fredd  wrote:

Dan,

Many dealerships refuse to work with/for Carmax.
This to avoid discussions about problem points on the car.
My local MB dealer is less than 1/4 mile of Carmax, and Carmax is not
allowed on their property.
I also know plenty of independent shops who refuse anything from Carmax
for
the same reassons.

Fredd



They allow potential buyers to have prepurchase inspections performed,
and
if any defects are found will correct them at no cost.





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Re: [MBZ] 190D continuing saga

[Max Dillon]

Thermostat for all 601 and non-turbo 602 should begin opening at 85 +/- 2, 
fully open at 94 degrees centigrade (that's what they use in Germany, Rich and 
Roger). Minimum stroke at 94 is 8mm. 
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300
'87 300TD

Max Dillon  wrote:

I'd test the thermostat first, then consider the water pump.

Do you know the spec for how wide it should open and at which temperature? I'll 
dig around, should have that somewhere.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300
'87 300TD

Curt Raymond  wrote:

So yesterday morning things seemed good, temp stayed below 100C.
Last night on the way home I got stuck in heavy traffic and the temp hung 
around 110C with trips up to the white line just before the red line.

It was cool out, maybe 65F so outside temp is not much of a factor.

One time it was getting high, I was running the cabin heat which was blowing 
hot air really well but making no difference and in desperation I slipped the 
trans into neutral and revved the engine which brought the temp down about 10C 
degrees really quickly.

I didn't pull over and check the temp with my IR thermometer which I should 
have (looking weird on the side of the road be dammed) but my experience thus 
far shows that the relative position of the temp gauge is right, meaning as it 
rises the temp is really rising, although the gauge itself is usually off about 
10C. So the car probably wasn't really overheating like I was afraid of but in 
the moment you get nervous...

Anyway the revving thing makes me wonder if I haven't got a defective water 
pump. I can't see where its leaking and the coolant doesn't go down a 
noticeable amount.

I suppose what I really need to do is replace the temp sensor but even a sensor 
not giving me the right temp is still giving me information that says the temp 
of the engine varies rather a lot (confirmed with the IR thermometer).

Ideas?

-Curt

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Re: [MBZ] GL pricing

[RELNGSON]

> ..Hahahaha yep, and that 61 is the base I imagine without all the 
> optional..
> 
Keep in mind that the GLK and W204 are on the same platform whereas the GL 
might be compared to a W212 4-matic.

My C300 cost $41600 before tax & license which was sticker and then the 
next year the bottom dropped out and MB was discounting everything heavily thus 
killing used values. I saw a couple of C63s with $15K off sticker.

I presume the vehicle has some sort of warranty? These are not very 
amenable to DIY.

RLE
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Carmax

[Dan Penoff]

I am doing some contract work near a CarMax in Tampa in the next week or two.  
I have wandered in there before to look at cars since they're no pressure and 
will let you poke and probe without bothering you.  I'll see what their 
response is to having a PPI done on a car and exactly what the process is.

Dan


On Aug 17, 2012, at 4:49 PM, Max Dillon wrote:

> Sounds like a local problem, not like a nation-wide policy of Carmax. The 
> $250 offer sounds like a bribe to me.
> -- 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '95 E300
> '87 300TD
> 


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Re: [MBZ] cheap

[RELNGSON]

> >Does this mean the Cheap Class stuff will continue, then?
> >
> >RLE
> 
> .C300 is MSRP at 38,900
> 
> GL350 Dissel IS MSRP at  $61,570
> 
> Seems to me that still makes the C300 cheap...
> 
You are quoting 2008 prices since they are both 2008 models? 

RLE
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] 190D continuing saga

[Max Dillon]

What year, and engine?
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300
'87 300TD

Curt Raymond  wrote:

So yesterday morning things seemed good, temp stayed below 100C.
Last night on the way home I got stuck in heavy traffic and the temp hung 
around 110C with trips up to the white line just before the red line.

It was cool out, maybe 65F so outside temp is not much of a factor.

One time it was getting high, I was running the cabin heat which was blowing 
hot air really well but making no difference and in desperation I slipped the 
trans into neutral and revved the engine which brought the temp down about 10C 
degrees really quickly.

I didn't pull over and check the temp with my IR thermometer which I should 
have (looking weird on the side of the road be dammed) but my experience thus 
far shows that the relative position of the temp gauge is right, meaning as it 
rises the temp is really rising, although the gauge itself is usually off about 
10C. So the car probably wasn't really overheating like I was afraid of but in 
the moment you get nervous...

Anyway the revving thing makes me wonder if I haven't got a defective water 
pump. I can't see where its leaking and the coolant doesn't go down a 
noticeable amount.

I suppose what I really need to do is replace the temp sensor but even a sensor 
not giving me the right temp is still giving me information that says the temp 
of the engine varies rather a lot (confirmed with the IR thermometer).

Ideas?

-Curt

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Re: [MBZ] Carmax

[Max Dillon]

Sounds like a local problem, not like a nation-wide policy of Carmax. The $250 
offer sounds like a bribe to me.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300
'87 300TD

Fredd  wrote:

Max,

It's very simple, the responsability.
If the MB/independent dealer finds for 10 problem points, then according to 
Carmax their own advertising, they should correct these 10 points.
But when Carmax only repairs the most important/dangerous points, and not 
the other points, then they can when the customer later complains about the 
other points, put the fault on the dealer/independent for supposedly not 
finding those points during the PPI.
I've personally seen how the local Carmax opperates with PPIs.
When I was still (small) co-owner in an independent shop, they send one of 
their managers to the shop and he offered $250 for each car the shop would 
approve off, even when the car would never come to the shop.
The local Carmax will also not let the potential buyer take the car for a 
PPI, but they will send their own people with the car for a PPI.

I don't say that all Car max places are like that.

Fredd



> This doesn't make any sense to me. Why would a dealer refuse pay for a 
> PPI? I think they are simply trying to damage Carmax in any way they can 
> for competitive reasons.
> -- 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '95 E300
> '87 300TD
>
> Fredd  wrote:
>
> Dan,
>
> Many dealerships refuse to work with/for Carmax.
> This to avoid discussions about problem points on the car.
> My local MB dealer is less than 1/4 mile of Carmax, and Carmax is not
> allowed on their property.
> I also know plenty of independent shops who refuse anything from Carmax 
> for
> the same reassons.
>
> Fredd
>
>
>> They allow potential buyers to have prepurchase inspections performed, 
>> and
>> if any defects are found will correct them at no cost.


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Re: [MBZ] 190D continuing saga

[Max Dillon]

I'd test the thermostat first, then consider the water pump.

Do you know the spec for how wide it should open and at which temperature? I'll 
dig around, should have that somewhere.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300
'87 300TD

Curt Raymond  wrote:

So yesterday morning things seemed good, temp stayed below 100C.
Last night on the way home I got stuck in heavy traffic and the temp hung 
around 110C with trips up to the white line just before the red line.

It was cool out, maybe 65F so outside temp is not much of a factor.

One time it was getting high, I was running the cabin heat which was blowing 
hot air really well but making no difference and in desperation I slipped the 
trans into neutral and revved the engine which brought the temp down about 10C 
degrees really quickly.

I didn't pull over and check the temp with my IR thermometer which I should 
have (looking weird on the side of the road be dammed) but my experience thus 
far shows that the relative position of the temp gauge is right, meaning as it 
rises the temp is really rising, although the gauge itself is usually off about 
10C. So the car probably wasn't really overheating like I was afraid of but in 
the moment you get nervous...

Anyway the revving thing makes me wonder if I haven't got a defective water 
pump. I can't see where its leaking and the coolant doesn't go down a 
noticeable amount.

I suppose what I really need to do is replace the temp sensor but even a sensor 
not giving me the right temp is still giving me information that says the temp 
of the engine varies rather a lot (confirmed with the IR thermometer).

Ideas?

-Curt

_

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Re: [MBZ] Carmax

[Max Dillon]

Yes Philip, you've got it.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300
'87 300TD

Fmiser  wrote:

> > Max wrote:
> > 
> > " This doesn't make any sense to me. Why would a
> > dealer refuse pay for a PPI? I think they are simply trying to
> > damage Carmax in any way they can for competitive reasons." 

> Donald Snook wrote:
> 
> I'm confused. People get a dealer to PAY for a PPI? Really? I
> thought if I took a car I was looking at and ask someone else
> to do an inspection, that I was paying for that! 

Read it again. 

"Why would a dealer refuse [to accept] pay?"

Not

"Why would a dealer refuse [to] pay [for]?"

Maybe if you substitute the word money for pay it will help.

Max, am I reading your intent correctly?

-- Philip

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Re: [MBZ] Carmax

[Dan Penoff]

I was at my local Ford dealer today to pick up a part. I saw my service advisor 
and called him over.

I asked him if they would ever refuse to inspect or service a Ford or Mercury 
vehicle based on where it came from.

"Absolutely not" was his response. When he asked me why, I told him. He just 
shook his head and said something about people "cutting off their nose to spite 
their face."

Dan


Sent from my iPad

On Aug 17, 2012, at 4:14 PM, Fmiser  wrote:

>>> Max wrote:
>>> 
>>> " This doesn't make any sense to me. Why would a
>>> dealer refuse pay for a PPI? I think they are simply trying to
>>> damage Carmax in any way they can for competitive reasons." 
> 
>> Donald Snook wrote:
>> 
>> I'm confused. People get a dealer to PAY for a PPI? Really? I
>> thought if I took a car I was looking at and ask someone else
>> to do an inspection, that I was paying for that! 
> 
> Read it again.  
> 
> "Why would a dealer refuse [to accept] pay?"
> 
> Not
> 
> "Why would a dealer refuse [to] pay [for]?"
> 
> Maybe if you substitute the word money for pay it will help.
> 
> Max, am I reading your intent correctly?
> 
> --Philip
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Carmax

[Fmiser]

> > Max wrote:
> > 
> > " This doesn't make any sense to me. Why would a
> > dealer refuse pay for a PPI? I think they are simply trying to
> > damage Carmax in any way they can for competitive reasons." 

> Donald Snook wrote:
> 
> I'm confused. People get a dealer to PAY for a PPI? Really? I
> thought if I took a car I was looking at and ask someone else
> to do an inspection, that I was paying for that! 

Read it again.  

"Why would a dealer refuse [to accept] pay?"

Not

"Why would a dealer refuse [to] pay [for]?"

Maybe if you substitute the word money for pay it will help.

Max, am I reading your intent correctly?

--Philip

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Re: [MBZ] Carmax

[Max Dillon]

Correct.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300
'87 300TD

"Kaleb C. Striplin"  wrote:

No I think he means a dealer would refuse a paying customer

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 17, 2012, at 12:48 PM, Donald Snook  wrote:

> 
> Max wrote: " This doesn't make any sense to me. Why would a dealer refuse pay 
> for a PPI? I think they are simply trying to damage Carmax in any way they 
> can for competitive reasons." 
> 
> I'm confused. People get a dealer to PAY for a PPI? Really? I thought if I 
> took a car I was looking at and ask someone else to do an inspection, that I 
> was paying for that! 
> 
> Donald H. Snook
> McDonald, Tinker, Skaer, Quinn & Herrington, P.A.
> 300 West Douglas
> P.O. Box 207
> Wichita, Kansas 67201 0207
> Tel. (316) 263-5851
> This confidential message may be subject to the attorney-client privilege or 
> protected by the attorney work-product doctrine. If you have received this 
> message in error, please delete it and notify me. 
> 
> http://www.mtsqh.com/
>_

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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] 190D continuing saga

[Dan Penoff]

It's not the radiator's fault if it's crudded up...


Dan


On Aug 17, 2012, at 2:02 PM, "Rusty Cullens"  wrote:

> The radiator is only 9 months old. I hope it isn't that.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
> On Behalf Of Dan Penoff
> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 1:43 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] 190D continuing saga
> 
> I would definitely focus on the radiator. If you have some blocked or
> clogged tubes it can manifest itself as you describe.
> 
> Your IR thermometer will tell you right away if you catch it while it is
> close to overheating.
> 
> Look especially close at the center of the radiator.
> 
> Dan
> 
> On Aug 17, 2012, at 12:35 PM, Peter Hertzing  wrote:
> 
>> Sorry Curt - coming into this late so I don't mean to be redundent.  From
>> the sound of the description below - you have already done some work.  My
>> first stop is always at the work I have done, making sure you have a fully
>> bled system with no air pockets.  You already have the IR thermometer, so
>> the next think I would do would be to check the temp across the radiator,
>> looking for a cool spot.  While unlikely, you could hae a colapsing
>> radiator hose restricting flow.
>> 
>> Gould luck, I hate these gremlins.  I currently have a randomly
> overheating
>> limo where the cooling fan doesn't turn on and it over heats - but by the
>> time you look at it the fan has come on and won't go off and works
>> perfectly.  Definitly annoying.
>> 
>> Peter
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 11:21 AM, Curt Raymond 
> wrote:
>> 
>>> So yesterday morning things seemed good, temp stayed below 100C.
>>> Last night on the way home I got stuck in heavy traffic and the temp hung
>>> around 110C with trips up to the white line just before the red line.
>>> 
>>> It was cool out, maybe 65F so outside temp is not much of a factor.
>>> 
>>> One time it was getting high, I was running the cabin heat which was
>>> blowing hot air really well but making no difference and in desperation I
>>> slipped the trans into neutral and revved the engine which brought the
> temp
>>> down about 10C degrees really quickly.
>>> 
>>> I didn't pull over and check the temp with my IR thermometer which I
>>> should have (looking weird on the side of the road be dammed) but my
>>> experience thus far shows that the relative position of the temp gauge is
>>> right, meaning as it rises the temp is really rising, although the gauge
>>> itself is usually off about 10C. So the car probably wasn't really
>>> overheating like I was afraid of but in the moment you get nervous...
>>> 
>>> Anyway the revving thing makes me wonder if I haven't got a defective
>>> water pump. I can't see where its leaking and the coolant doesn't go down
> a
>>> noticeable amount.
>>> 
>>> I suppose what I really need to do is replace the temp sensor but even a
>>> sensor not giving me the right temp is still giving me information that
>>> says the temp of the engine varies rather a lot (confirmed with the IR
>>> thermometer).
>>> 
>>> Ideas?
>>> 
>>> -Curt
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> ___
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> 
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> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Carmax

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

No I think he means a dealer would refuse a paying customer

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 17, 2012, at 12:48 PM, Donald Snook  wrote:

> 
> Max wrote: " This doesn't make any sense to me. Why would a dealer refuse pay 
> for a PPI? I think they are simply trying to damage Carmax in any way they 
> can for competitive reasons." 
> 
> I'm confused. People get a dealer to PAY for a PPI? Really? I thought if I 
> took a car I was looking at and ask someone else to do an inspection, that I 
> was paying for that! 
> 
> Donald H. Snook
> McDonald, Tinker, Skaer, Quinn & Herrington, P.A.
> 300 West Douglas
> P.O. Box 207
> Wichita, Kansas 67201 0207
> Tel. (316) 263-5851
> This confidential message may be subject to the attorney-client privilege or 
> protected by the attorney work-product doctrine. If you have received this 
> message in error, please delete it and notify me. 
> 
> http://www.mtsqh.com/
> ___
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> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] 190D continuing saga

[Rusty Cullens]

The radiator is only 9 months old. I hope it isn't that.



-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Dan Penoff
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 1:43 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 190D continuing saga

I would definitely focus on the radiator. If you have some blocked or
clogged tubes it can manifest itself as you describe.

Your IR thermometer will tell you right away if you catch it while it is
close to overheating.

Look especially close at the center of the radiator.

Dan

On Aug 17, 2012, at 12:35 PM, Peter Hertzing  wrote:

> Sorry Curt - coming into this late so I don't mean to be redundent.  From
> the sound of the description below - you have already done some work.  My
> first stop is always at the work I have done, making sure you have a fully
> bled system with no air pockets.  You already have the IR thermometer, so
> the next think I would do would be to check the temp across the radiator,
> looking for a cool spot.  While unlikely, you could hae a colapsing
> radiator hose restricting flow.
> 
> Gould luck, I hate these gremlins.  I currently have a randomly
overheating
> limo where the cooling fan doesn't turn on and it over heats - but by the
> time you look at it the fan has come on and won't go off and works
> perfectly.  Definitly annoying.
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 11:21 AM, Curt Raymond 
wrote:
> 
>> So yesterday morning things seemed good, temp stayed below 100C.
>> Last night on the way home I got stuck in heavy traffic and the temp hung
>> around 110C with trips up to the white line just before the red line.
>> 
>> It was cool out, maybe 65F so outside temp is not much of a factor.
>> 
>> One time it was getting high, I was running the cabin heat which was
>> blowing hot air really well but making no difference and in desperation I
>> slipped the trans into neutral and revved the engine which brought the
temp
>> down about 10C degrees really quickly.
>> 
>> I didn't pull over and check the temp with my IR thermometer which I
>> should have (looking weird on the side of the road be dammed) but my
>> experience thus far shows that the relative position of the temp gauge is
>> right, meaning as it rises the temp is really rising, although the gauge
>> itself is usually off about 10C. So the car probably wasn't really
>> overheating like I was afraid of but in the moment you get nervous...
>> 
>> Anyway the revving thing makes me wonder if I haven't got a defective
>> water pump. I can't see where its leaking and the coolant doesn't go down
a
>> noticeable amount.
>> 
>> I suppose what I really need to do is replace the temp sensor but even a
>> sensor not giving me the right temp is still giving me information that
>> says the temp of the engine varies rather a lot (confirmed with the IR
>> thermometer).
>> 
>> Ideas?
>> 
>> -Curt
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Carmax

[Donald Snook]

Max wrote: " This doesn't make any sense to me. Why would a dealer refuse pay 
for a PPI? I think they are simply trying to damage Carmax in any way they can 
for competitive reasons." 

I'm confused. People get a dealer to PAY for a PPI? Really? I thought if I took 
a car I was looking at and ask someone else to do an inspection, that I was 
paying for that! 

Donald H. Snook
McDonald, Tinker, Skaer, Quinn & Herrington, P.A.
300 West Douglas
P.O. Box 207
Wichita, Kansas 67201 0207
Tel. (316) 263-5851
This confidential message may be subject to the attorney-client privilege or 
protected by the attorney work-product doctrine. If you have received this 
message in error, please delete it and notify me. 
 
http://www.mtsqh.com/
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Re: [MBZ] 190D continuing saga

[Dan Penoff]

I would definitely focus on the radiator. If you have some blocked or clogged 
tubes it can manifest itself as you describe.

Your IR thermometer will tell you right away if you catch it while it is close 
to overheating.

Look especially close at the center of the radiator.

Dan

On Aug 17, 2012, at 12:35 PM, Peter Hertzing  wrote:

> Sorry Curt - coming into this late so I don't mean to be redundent.  From
> the sound of the description below - you have already done some work.  My
> first stop is always at the work I have done, making sure you have a fully
> bled system with no air pockets.  You already have the IR thermometer, so
> the next think I would do would be to check the temp across the radiator,
> looking for a cool spot.  While unlikely, you could hae a colapsing
> radiator hose restricting flow.
> 
> Gould luck, I hate these gremlins.  I currently have a randomly overheating
> limo where the cooling fan doesn't turn on and it over heats - but by the
> time you look at it the fan has come on and won't go off and works
> perfectly.  Definitly annoying.
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 11:21 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
>> So yesterday morning things seemed good, temp stayed below 100C.
>> Last night on the way home I got stuck in heavy traffic and the temp hung
>> around 110C with trips up to the white line just before the red line.
>> 
>> It was cool out, maybe 65F so outside temp is not much of a factor.
>> 
>> One time it was getting high, I was running the cabin heat which was
>> blowing hot air really well but making no difference and in desperation I
>> slipped the trans into neutral and revved the engine which brought the temp
>> down about 10C degrees really quickly.
>> 
>> I didn't pull over and check the temp with my IR thermometer which I
>> should have (looking weird on the side of the road be dammed) but my
>> experience thus far shows that the relative position of the temp gauge is
>> right, meaning as it rises the temp is really rising, although the gauge
>> itself is usually off about 10C. So the car probably wasn't really
>> overheating like I was afraid of but in the moment you get nervous...
>> 
>> Anyway the revving thing makes me wonder if I haven't got a defective
>> water pump. I can't see where its leaking and the coolant doesn't go down a
>> noticeable amount.
>> 
>> I suppose what I really need to do is replace the temp sensor but even a
>> sensor not giving me the right temp is still giving me information that
>> says the temp of the engine varies rather a lot (confirmed with the IR
>> thermometer).
>> 
>> Ideas?
>> 
>> -Curt
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] 190D continuing saga

[Peter Hertzing]

Sorry Curt - coming into this late so I don't mean to be redundent.  From
the sound of the description below - you have already done some work.  My
first stop is always at the work I have done, making sure you have a fully
bled system with no air pockets.  You already have the IR thermometer, so
the next think I would do would be to check the temp across the radiator,
looking for a cool spot.  While unlikely, you could hae a colapsing
radiator hose restricting flow.

Gould luck, I hate these gremlins.  I currently have a randomly overheating
limo where the cooling fan doesn't turn on and it over heats - but by the
time you look at it the fan has come on and won't go off and works
perfectly.  Definitly annoying.

Peter




On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 11:21 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:

> So yesterday morning things seemed good, temp stayed below 100C.
> Last night on the way home I got stuck in heavy traffic and the temp hung
> around 110C with trips up to the white line just before the red line.
>
> It was cool out, maybe 65F so outside temp is not much of a factor.
>
> One time it was getting high, I was running the cabin heat which was
> blowing hot air really well but making no difference and in desperation I
> slipped the trans into neutral and revved the engine which brought the temp
> down about 10C degrees really quickly.
>
> I didn't pull over and check the temp with my IR thermometer which I
> should have (looking weird on the side of the road be dammed) but my
> experience thus far shows that the relative position of the temp gauge is
> right, meaning as it rises the temp is really rising, although the gauge
> itself is usually off about 10C. So the car probably wasn't really
> overheating like I was afraid of but in the moment you get nervous...
>
> Anyway the revving thing makes me wonder if I haven't got a defective
> water pump. I can't see where its leaking and the coolant doesn't go down a
> noticeable amount.
>
> I suppose what I really need to do is replace the temp sensor but even a
> sensor not giving me the right temp is still giving me information that
> says the temp of the engine varies rather a lot (confirmed with the IR
> thermometer).
>
> Ideas?
>
> -Curt
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
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[MBZ] 190D continuing saga

[Curt Raymond]

So yesterday morning things seemed good, temp stayed below 100C.
Last night on the way home I got stuck in heavy traffic and the temp hung 
around 110C with trips up to the white line just before the red line.

It was cool out, maybe 65F so outside temp is not much of a factor.

One time it was getting high, I was running the cabin heat which was blowing 
hot air really well but making no difference and in desperation I slipped the 
trans into neutral and revved the engine which brought the temp down about 10C 
degrees really quickly.

I didn't pull over and check the temp with my IR thermometer which I should 
have (looking weird on the side of the road be dammed) but my experience thus 
far shows that the relative position of the temp gauge is right, meaning as it 
rises the temp is really rising, although the gauge itself is usually off about 
10C. So the car probably wasn't really overheating like I was afraid of but in 
the moment you get nervous...

Anyway the revving thing makes me wonder if I haven't got a defective water 
pump. I can't see where its leaking and the coolant doesn't go down a 
noticeable amount.

I suppose what I really need to do is replace the temp sensor but even a sensor 
not giving me the right temp is still giving me information that says the temp 
of the engine varies rather a lot (confirmed with the IR thermometer).

Ideas?

-Curt

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[MBZ] Carmax

[Fredd]

Max,

It's very simple, the responsability.
If the MB/independent dealer finds for 10 problem points, then according to 
Carmax their own advertising, they should correct these 10 points.
But when Carmax only repairs the most important/dangerous points, and not 
the other points, then they can when the customer later complains about the 
other points, put the fault on the dealer/independent for supposedly not 
finding those points during the PPI.

I've personally seen how the local Carmax opperates with PPIs.
When I was still (small) co-owner in an independent shop, they send one of 
their managers to the shop and he offered $250 for each car the shop would 
approve off, even when the car would never come to the shop.
The local Carmax will also not let the potential buyer take the car for a 
PPI, but they will send their own people with the car for a PPI.


I don't say that all Car max places are like that.

Fredd



This doesn't make any sense to me. Why would a dealer refuse pay for a 
PPI? I think they are simply trying to damage Carmax in any way they can 
for competitive reasons.

--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300
'87 300TD

Fredd  wrote:

Dan,

Many dealerships refuse to work with/for Carmax.
This to avoid discussions about problem points on the car.
My local MB dealer is less than 1/4 mile of Carmax, and Carmax is not
allowed on their property.
I also know plenty of independent shops who refuse anything from Carmax 
for

the same reassons.

Fredd


They allow potential buyers to have prepurchase inspections performed, 
and

if any defects are found will correct them at no cost.



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Re: [MBZ] OT - TVs

[Mitch Haley]

Curt Raymond wrote:

The mistake is giving it away. If it had a sign that said $50 somebody would 
steal it.

We do that with the old worn out lawnmowers on the farm. 


Lawnmowers are worth something for scrap metal.
No reason to stop the honest folks from having a chance at it.

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Re: [MBZ] I found just the car for Jaime

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Aug 17, 2012 7:24 AM, "Kaleb C. Striplin" <
kaleb.strip...@drivedominion.com> wrote:
>
>
> http://fayar.craigslist.org/cto/3208687723.html
>

Five speeds including reverse?

Alex
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Re: [MBZ] GL/R

[WILTON]

GL looks to me to be more Surburban, Expedition, Escalade-like, but enough 
like an R that I could recognize the kinship.  The underhood looks identical 
at a glance.  Interior very similar, also.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "David Bruckmann" 

To: 
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 2:56 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] GL/R


As I understand it, the GL platform is shared with the Jeep Cherokee/Dodge 
Deranged (developed before the divorce).


So does that make the R platform basically a tricked out LWB Magic Wagon, 
I wonder?


On 2012-08-16, at 22:49, Wilton wrote:

Well, I just did it again; 'looks same as first time; not EXACTLY like 
son's
R320 (maybe "much" is too much) - somewhat like; little boxier; son's 
R320

seems significantly bigger than a minivan; Gl does, too.
Sure looks like same TYPE of van to me; even same seating.
GL may be bigger than R, but R isn't small.  Gl obviously has straighter
exterior lines than R.

Wilton


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Re: [MBZ] OT - TVs

[WILTON]

Gonna another CRT by the street soon.  'Wondering how long it'll stay there. 
Most things I put out there don't occupy the space and hour.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Hendrik & Fay" 

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" 
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 12:29 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - TVs


Don't know what the story is over there but around here you can go for a 
drive and find an old CRT TV sitting on the side of the road, usually with 
remote and a sign on em that says: "take me I'm working".

However no one takes em.
We have a CRT that you can have for shipping costs, the missus wanted 
digital TV and what the boss wants the boss gets.
However if you want to watch your, ahhm, 'romantic movies' in HD you'll 
want a flat panel.


Hendrik
who has LCD and plasma idiot boxes

On 16/08/12 10:18, WILTON wrote:

What's better, LED or LCD and why?

Wilton







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[MBZ] I found just the car for Jaime

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

http://fayar.craigslist.org/cto/3208687723.html

--
Sent from Craigslist Pro for iPhone and iPod


Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [MBZ] OT - TVs

[Curt Raymond]

The mistake is giving it away. If it had a sign that said $50 somebody would 
steal it.

We do that with the old worn out lawnmowers on the farm. Last one had no front 
tires. I watched them work like dogs to steal it. Wish I'd had a camera with a 
long telephoto lens to get pictures. The engine in it hadn't run for years.

-Curt


Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2012 13:59:18 +0930
From: Hendrik & Fay 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT - TVs
Message-ID: <502dc89e.8000...@ozemail.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Don't know what the story is over there but around here you can go for a 
drive and find an old CRT TV sitting on the side of the road, usually 
with remote and a sign on em that says: "take me I'm working".
However no one takes em.
We have a CRT that you can have for shipping costs, the missus wanted 
digital TV and what the boss wants the boss gets.
However if you want to watch your, ahhm, 'romantic movies' in HD you'll 
want a flat panel.

Hendrik
who has LCD and plasma idiot boxes

On 16/08/12 10:18, WILTON wrote:
> What's better, LED or LCD and why?
>
> Wilton
>

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Re: [MBZ] Carmax

[Dan Penoff]

Max,

I interpreted this as local dealers not performing any work on CarMax vehicles, 
as if you wanted to buy a car from CarMax and took it to a local dealer to get 
a PPI.

Dan

On Aug 17, 2012, at 8:22 AM, Max Dillon  wrote:

> This doesn't make any sense to me. Why would a dealer refuse pay for a PPI? I 
> think they are simply trying to damage Carmax in any way they can for 
> competitive reasons.
> -- 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '95 E300
> '87 300TD
> 
> Fredd  wrote:
> 
> Dan,
> 
> Many dealerships refuse to work with/for Carmax.
> This to avoid discussions about problem points on the car.
> My local MB dealer is less than 1/4 mile of Carmax, and Carmax is not 
> allowed on their property.
> I also know plenty of independent shops who refuse anything from Carmax for 
> the same reassons.
> 
> Fredd
> 
> 
>> They allow potential buyers to have prepurchase inspections performed, and 
>> if any defects are found will correct them at no cost.
>> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Carmax

[Max Dillon]

This doesn't make any sense to me. Why would a dealer refuse pay for a PPI? I 
think they are simply trying to damage Carmax in any way they can for 
competitive reasons.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300
'87 300TD

Fredd  wrote:

Dan,

Many dealerships refuse to work with/for Carmax.
This to avoid discussions about problem points on the car.
My local MB dealer is less than 1/4 mile of Carmax, and Carmax is not 
allowed on their property.
I also know plenty of independent shops who refuse anything from Carmax for 
the same reassons.

Fredd


> They allow potential buyers to have prepurchase inspections performed, and 
> if any defects are found will correct them at no cost.
>


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Re: [MBZ] OT - Gretsch Banjo

[Dan Penoff]

Thanks, Gerry. I stumbled across this site last night after going through 
several pages of Google searches.

What is making this tough is the lack of accurate serial number records. There 
are overlaps and duplications over the years, or so it appears, due to changes 
in ownership of the brand names.

I think this is a vintage instrument, although the serial number could make it 
as old as the 1930s and as new as the 1950s.

Doesn't matter to me, as the wife has mandated that it be sold. I just want to 
try and get the maximum value, of course.

Dan

On Aug 17, 2012, at 12:56 AM, "Gerry Archer"  wrote:

> http://www.banjo-brands.com/manufacturer.php?ID=1779
> 
> From: "Dan Penoff" 
>> Got a Gretsch "Senorita" banjo in the closet that the wife has said to sell. 
>>  Can't find much on these on eBay or other online sales sites.
>> Anyone know anything about them and possible values?
>> Thanks,
>> Dan
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT - TVs

[Fmiser]

> Hendrik & Fay wrote:

> We have a CRT that you can have for shipping costs,

Too bad it's a PAL set and over here NTSC is the rule.  

Except broadcast is all HD now so NTSC only defines the
composite video portion of the chain, not the whole broacast
setup.

--   Philip, who has a lot of old video gear, but nothing that PAL

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