Re: [MBZ] 210 parking brakes

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

I pulled the cable housing loose from the backing plate when I was working on 
the wheel bearing on my W163. Just grabbed the cable end with pliers and 
yanked, and it pulled the housing back into place. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] The $500E300 did its job tonight

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Metro would need a tiny diesel, like a VW TDI or a 1.6L Clean Turbo Diesel 
(CTD). 
Unfortunately, General Motors, after totally failing to advertise or try to 
sell the 1.6 CTD for three years, has announced that it won't be available in 
2020 Equinox or Terrain (and they already announced there won't be any 2020 
Cruze, diesel or gas). 

Mitch. 

> On July 17, 2019 at 10:02 PM Kevin Kraly via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> It would be nice to install a TDI in my nephew’s little 1960 Nash 
> Metropolitan!!

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Re: [MBZ] What a shame

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Sick. Capital offense.

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019, 10:19 PM Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/1975-Mercedes-Benz-200-Series-240D/254300506170?hash=item3b357dc83a:g:pHEAAOSwebpdIP9e
>
>
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[MBZ] What a shame

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1975-Mercedes-Benz-200-Series-240D/254300506170?hash=item3b357dc83a:g:pHEAAOSwebpdIP9e


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Re: [MBZ] The $500E300 did its job tonight

[Kevin Kraly via Mercedes]

It would be nice to install a TDI in my nephew’s little 1960 Nash Metropolitan!!
Kevin in Hillsboro, OR 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 17, 2019, at 6:17 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Just because its sideways mounted in a VW doesn't mean it can't be inline 
> elsewhere. In fact the '99.5-05 Passats had the engine mounted inline. Pretty 
> weird that VW made both and weird that they had an inline, front drive...
> Lots of people put TDI engines in lots of things...
> -Curt
> 
>On Wednesday, July 17, 2019, 6:31:00 PM EDT, OK Don  
> wrote:  
> 
> It needs to stay rear wheel drive - I guess someone is making adapter kits, 
> but a real MB Diesel with it's tranny would be very nice. Those old British 
> cast iron engines weren't light, and you can always beef up the springs.
> On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 5:00 PM Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> How heavy is it? I was going to make fun of it at first but the engine in a 
> 201 is quite substantial.
> For a little diesel sports car I'd look to a TDI. The old VE engines like my 
> '98 had can be souped up to 150hp which doesn't sound like too much but 
> remember its a 4 cylinder 1.9l diesel. Very small and fairly light, like 
> under 400#.The new common rail 2.0l engines start at 150hp in a similar size 
> package. I don't know the weight but it can't be a lot more although the 
> associated electronics are a bigger deal.
> 
> -Curt
> 
>On Wednesday, July 17, 2019, 5:40:43 PM EDT, OK Don via Mercedes 
>  wrote:  
> 
> I was thinking that it would nice in a Triumph GT-6+, or MGBGT ---
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause 
> and reflect." Mark Twain
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who 
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for 
> themselves."
> 
> WILL ROGERS, The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 
> mph!  
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Re: [MBZ] 210 parking brakes

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

There is an adjuster under the back seat  apparently.

On 7/17/2019 6:21 PM, Craig via Mercedes wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 18:06:40 -0500 "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
 wrote:


One other thing to note, it the peach part post, the part the cable
attaches to seems to be somewhat flush with the actuator body facing
outward where as mine the leaver is pulled in.  The shoes should be
resting against the big tab at the bottom.  On mine with one shoe
resting on the tab the other will be out about 1/4".


I have never had to mess with parking brakes before, so this is a
learning experience.

It was a learning experience for me when I changed the parking brake
shoes on the '90 E300D/2.5 Turbo ...

Loosen the yoke which has the cables which go to the rear brakes on the
cable from the parking brake pedal which pulls on it and see if you can
get more slack to allow the mechanism shown in IMG_2071.png to reduce its
overall length to allow the shoes to rest on the big tab at the bottom.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] The $500E300 did its job tonight

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 Just because its sideways mounted in a VW doesn't mean it can't be inline 
elsewhere. In fact the '99.5-05 Passats had the engine mounted inline. Pretty 
weird that VW made both and weird that they had an inline, front drive...
Lots of people put TDI engines in lots of things...
-Curt

On Wednesday, July 17, 2019, 6:31:00 PM EDT, OK Don  
wrote:  
 
 It needs to stay rear wheel drive - I guess someone is making adapter kits, 
but a real MB Diesel with it's tranny would be very nice. Those old British 
cast iron engines weren't light, and you can always beef up the springs.
On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 5:00 PM Curt Raymond  wrote:

 How heavy is it? I was going to make fun of it at first but the engine in a 
201 is quite substantial.
For a little diesel sports car I'd look to a TDI. The old VE engines like my 
'98 had can be souped up to 150hp which doesn't sound like too much but 
remember its a 4 cylinder 1.9l diesel. Very small and fairly light, like under 
400#.The new common rail 2.0l engines start at 150hp in a similar size package. 
I don't know the weight but it can't be a lot more although the associated 
electronics are a bigger deal.

-Curt

On Wednesday, July 17, 2019, 5:40:43 PM EDT, OK Don via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 I was thinking that it would nice in a Triumph GT-6+, or MGBGT ---


  


-- 
OK Don
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause 
and reflect." Mark Twain
"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who 
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for 
themselves."

WILL ROGERS, The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers
2013 F150, 18 mpg2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! 
 
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[MBZ] Hey, Kaleb! Are you seeing my posts?

[Craig via Mercedes]

I posted a response to your 210 parking brakes posting, but it seems you
haven't seen it.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] 210 parking brakes

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

No

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 17, 2019, at 7:56 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Is there a defect in the shoe that prevents it from seating?
> -- 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> 
>> On July 17, 2019 7:00:20 PM EDT, "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I am trying to put the parking brake back together as part of this rear
>> 
>> wheel bearing job. Looking at this post:
>> 
>> https://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Mercedes-Benz/29-BRAKES-Parking_Brake_Replacement/29-BRAKES-Parking_Brake_Replacement.htm
>> 
>> I figured out how to get it back together and how the bottom actuator 
>> thing works.  With it all back together the shoes are way too far apart
>> 
>> at the bottom and the brake disk wont go back on.  It appears to me as 
>> if the parking brake cable does not extend far enough out.  In other 
>> words, it appears as if that side is like the parking brake is set. 
>> The 
>> passenger side spins free.  When I activate the parking brake passenger
>> 
>> side locks up tight, like it should.  Drivers side that I am working on
>> 
>> seems like it pulls in a little when activated but not much (as in it
>> is 
>> already pulled in somehow). Why won't the cable pull out further?  The 
>> brake was adjusted just fine before I pulled it apart, why all the 
>> sudden is only this side seem to be messed up?  See attached photos.
>> 
>> I have never had to mess with parking brakes before, so this is a 
>> learning experience.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> https://www.avg.com
> 
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Re: [MBZ] 210 parking brakes

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Is there a defect in the shoe that prevents it from seating?
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC

On July 17, 2019 7:00:20 PM EDT, "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" 
 wrote:
>
>I am trying to put the parking brake back together as part of this rear
>
>wheel bearing job. Looking at this post:
>
>https://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Mercedes-Benz/29-BRAKES-Parking_Brake_Replacement/29-BRAKES-Parking_Brake_Replacement.htm
>
>I figured out how to get it back together and how the bottom actuator 
>thing works.  With it all back together the shoes are way too far apart
>
>at the bottom and the brake disk wont go back on.  It appears to me as 
>if the parking brake cable does not extend far enough out.  In other 
>words, it appears as if that side is like the parking brake is set. 
>The 
>passenger side spins free.  When I activate the parking brake passenger
>
>side locks up tight, like it should.  Drivers side that I am working on
>
>seems like it pulls in a little when activated but not much (as in it
>is 
>already pulled in somehow). Why won't the cable pull out further?  The 
>brake was adjusted just fine before I pulled it apart, why all the 
>sudden is only this side seem to be messed up?  See attached photos.
>
>I have never had to mess with parking brakes before, so this is a 
>learning experience.
>
>
>
>---
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Re: [MBZ] $500300E

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

Now that would be interesting 

--FT
Sent from iPhone

> On Jul 17, 2019, at 2:53 PM, Frederick Moir via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 1995 300CE to CD?
> 
> -- 
> Fred Moir
> Lynn MA
> Diesel preferred
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Re: [MBZ] 210 parking brakes

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 18:06:40 -0500 "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
 wrote:

> One other thing to note, it the peach part post, the part the cable 
> attaches to seems to be somewhat flush with the actuator body facing 
> outward where as mine the leaver is pulled in.  The shoes should be 
> resting against the big tab at the bottom.  On mine with one shoe 
> resting on the tab the other will be out about 1/4".
> 
> > I have never had to mess with parking brakes before, so this is a 
> > learning experience.

It was a learning experience for me when I changed the parking brake
shoes on the '90 E300D/2.5 Turbo ...

Loosen the yoke which has the cables which go to the rear brakes on the
cable from the parking brake pedal which pulls on it and see if you can
get more slack to allow the mechanism shown in IMG_2071.png to reduce its
overall length to allow the shoes to rest on the big tab at the bottom.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] 210 parking brakes

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

One other thing to note, it the peach part post, the part the cable 
attaches to seems to be somewhat flush with the actuator body facing 
outward where as mine the leaver is pulled in.  The shoes should be 
resting against the big tab at the bottom.  On mine with one shoe 
resting on the tab the other will be out about 1/4".


On 7/17/2019 6:00 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote:


I am trying to put the parking brake back together as part of this 
rear wheel bearing job. Looking at this post:


https://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/Mercedes-Benz/29-BRAKES-Parking_Brake_Replacement/29-BRAKES-Parking_Brake_Replacement.htm 



I figured out how to get it back together and how the bottom actuator 
thing works.  With it all back together the shoes are way too far 
apart at the bottom and the brake disk wont go back on. It appears to 
me as if the parking brake cable does not extend far enough out.  In 
other words, it appears as if that side is like the parking brake is 
set.  The passenger side spins free.  When I activate the parking 
brake passenger side locks up tight, like it should.  Drivers side 
that I am working on seems like it pulls in a little when activated 
but not much (as in it is already pulled in somehow). Why won't the 
cable pull out further?  The brake was adjusted just fine before I 
pulled it apart, why all the sudden is only this side seem to be 
messed up?  See attached photos.


I have never had to mess with parking brakes before, so this is a 
learning experience.




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Re: [MBZ] The $500E300 did its job tonight

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Yes, they would work better, but they're not Diesels!

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 5:11 PM Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> But isn't a 603/606 a little heavy for one of those?
> I think a modern aluminum 250-300hp four cylinder would be nice in those,
> but wrecked Mustangs and Camaros with good drivetrains keep selling for
> well north of $10k, and Malibus come with the wrong transmission.
> Mitch.
>
> > On July 17, 2019 at 5:39 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I was thinking that it would nice in a Triumph GT-6+, or MGBGT ---
>
>
-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] The $500E300 did its job tonight

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

But isn't a 603/606 a little heavy for one of those?
I think a modern aluminum 250-300hp four cylinder would be nice in those, but 
wrecked Mustangs and Camaros with good drivetrains keep selling for well north 
of $10k, and Malibus come with the wrong transmission. 
Mitch.

> On July 17, 2019 at 5:39 PM OK Don via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> 
> I was thinking that it would nice in a Triumph GT-6+, or MGBGT ---

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Re: [MBZ] The $500E300 did its job tonight

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 How heavy is it? I was going to make fun of it at first but the engine in a 
201 is quite substantial.
For a little diesel sports car I'd look to a TDI. The old VE engines like my 
'98 had can be souped up to 150hp which doesn't sound like too much but 
remember its a 4 cylinder 1.9l diesel. Very small and fairly light, like under 
400#.The new common rail 2.0l engines start at 150hp in a similar size package. 
I don't know the weight but it can't be a lot more although the associated 
electronics are a bigger deal.

-Curt

On Wednesday, July 17, 2019, 5:40:43 PM EDT, OK Don via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 I was thinking that it would nice in a Triumph GT-6+, or MGBGT ---

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 1:01 PM Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Pull the engine, transmission, computers, shifter, and all associated
> wiring harnesses.
> Would go nice in a W124, W201, or W210. If not a W210, just get an
> aftermarket intercooler.
> A W124/201 with 24v turbo diesel and electronic overdrive transmission
> would be sort of unique.
>
> Mitch.
>
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] The $500E300 did its job tonight

[OK Don via Mercedes]

I was thinking that it would nice in a Triumph GT-6+, or MGBGT ---

On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 1:01 PM Mitch Haley via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Pull the engine, transmission, computers, shifter, and all associated
> wiring harnesses.
> Would go nice in a W124, W201, or W210. If not a W210, just get an
> aftermarket intercooler.
> A W124/201 with 24v turbo diesel and electronic overdrive transmission
> would be sort of unique.
>
> Mitch.
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] The $500E300 did its job tonight

[Dan--- via Mercedes]

I need a W210 shifter if you part it out. They’re always gone at the P here 
when I’ve gone to look. My lockout solenoid on the shifter on my 98 wagon is 
dead, so I can shift whenever, wherever.

-D

> On Jul 17, 2019, at 2:01 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Pull the engine, transmission, computers, shifter, and all associated wiring 
> harnesses. 
> Would go nice in a W124, W201, or W210. If not a W210, just get an 
> aftermarket intercooler.
> A W124/201 with 24v turbo diesel and electronic overdrive transmission would 
> be sort of unique.
> 
> Mitch.
> 
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 


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[MBZ] $500300E

[Frederick Moir via Mercedes]

1995 300CE to CD?

-- 
Fred Moir
Lynn MA
Diesel preferred
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Re: [MBZ] The $500E300 did its job tonight

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Pull the engine, transmission, computers, shifter, and all associated wiring 
harnesses. 
Would go nice in a W124, W201, or W210. If not a W210, just get an aftermarket 
intercooler.
A W124/201 with 24v turbo diesel and electronic overdrive transmission would be 
sort of unique.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] This is Sort of Tempting

[Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes]

The Kapusta Kid!

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Andrew 
Strasfogel via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2019 6:15 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: Andrew Strasfogel
Subject: Re: [MBZ] This is Sort of Tempting

My favorite comedian growing up!  Percy Dovetonsils and other brilliant
skits, some with Edie Adams his beautiful wife.  Died young, like so many
others (Gilda, Andy Kaufman, Belushi, John Candy, Phil Hartman, the list
goes on...)

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 8:10 PM Mountain Man via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Andrew wrote:
> > LOL.  Reminds me of the Laurel and Hardy film...
>
> Laurel and Hardy is *old* film.  Does anyone remember Ernie Kovacs? - olde
> TV
>
> https://www.npr.org/2011/04/18/135511104/ernie-kovacs-the-king-of-early-television-comedy
> tin
>
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Re: [MBZ] The $500E300 did its job tonight

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

327kmi. Runs great. Has burned no oil since I changed it a coupla months ago, a 
few kmi. I’m thinking it needs to go in something. The intercooler was smashed. 

--R
Sent from iPhone

> On Jul 17, 2019, at 12:05 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> The motor is worth money. Save it. It will drop into any w124 300d, ideally
> a 1995. Intercooler piping needs some customization. How many miles are on
> it? I need one for when the current one blows up.
> 
> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 9:21 AM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> Haha, yeah "insurance" I do have to call and cancel it though.
>> 
>> Woke up a bit sore this morning but my buddy and I went to collect the
>> car, load it on the trailer, which was a bit of an effort but that
>> worked out the kinks.  So the car is back home. Couldn't get the hood
>> popped, will have to work on that at some point.  Intercooler is all
>> bent up so that part is dead.  I don't think much else got damaged, the
>> radiator probably gone.  Most of the damage is low on pass side front,
>> and the fender pushed back. I don't think it is fixable so will have to
>> become parts.  Good new tires on it so those can be recycled to
>> something.  At some point I'll dismantle it and save the good bits and
>> take the hulk to the knacker, get a few $$ for it.  It ran great so the
>> engine and tranny are good, I wonder what that would transplant into,
>> get a diesel again!  Would it be a drop-in on any 210?
>> 
>> --FT
>> 
>> 
>>> On 7/16/19 11:47 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
>>> What insurance? Would someone carry comprehensive insurance on a $500
>> car?
>> 
>> --
>> --FT
>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] The $500E300 did its job tonight

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

The motor is worth money. Save it. It will drop into any w124 300d, ideally
a 1995. Intercooler piping needs some customization. How many miles are on
it? I need one for when the current one blows up.

On Tue, Jul 16, 2019, 9:21 AM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Haha, yeah "insurance" I do have to call and cancel it though.
>
> Woke up a bit sore this morning but my buddy and I went to collect the
> car, load it on the trailer, which was a bit of an effort but that
> worked out the kinks.  So the car is back home. Couldn't get the hood
> popped, will have to work on that at some point.  Intercooler is all
> bent up so that part is dead.  I don't think much else got damaged, the
> radiator probably gone.  Most of the damage is low on pass side front,
> and the fender pushed back. I don't think it is fixable so will have to
> become parts.  Good new tires on it so those can be recycled to
> something.  At some point I'll dismantle it and save the good bits and
> take the hulk to the knacker, get a few $$ for it.  It ran great so the
> engine and tranny are good, I wonder what that would transplant into,
> get a diesel again!  Would it be a drop-in on any 210?
>
> --FT
>
>
> On 7/16/19 11:47 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> > What insurance? Would someone carry comprehensive insurance on a $500
> car?
>
> --
> --FT
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT - Dumping ground

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

Buy a new one. Good time of year to get a 2019, or soon will be. 
Interest rates are still pretty good and it is nice to have a vehicle 
that does not need any work for a long while. I normally have not bought 
new, but I bit the bullet and bought my 2013 F150 Supercrew new 6 years 
ago. I have done very little to it in 6 years apart from oil changes etc.


On 14/07/2019 1:49 PM, Clay Monroe via Mercedes wrote:

Up here the small vans are mommy transporters and tend to be owned until 
trashed, so there are few that make it to the secondary market and within the 
low miles, fresh interior, no damage requirements SWMBA has.


clay



On Jul 12, 2019, at 7:26 AM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes  
wrote:

Have you test driven a van? Normally, that would not be high on my list but I have 
been driving a loaner from an autobody shop this week while they repair my truck 
and I find that I sort of like the van. It is a Chrysler Town & Country with a 
V6 and lots of modern amenities. Not too fancy as it lacks sunroof and leather 
seating but has most of what one would want or expect. Rear seats fold into the 
floor so one has lots of hauling room and it has seats for at least 6 adults if one 
puts 2 in the 3rd row. Rides fairly decently and handles OK. I am not treating it 
like a sports car but it seems pretty tight yet. It is a 2015 model with about 
87,000 miles on it.



clay monroe


I turned my computer upside down and shook it, but the bookmark for what I'm 
looking for didn't fall out.




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Re: [MBZ] Moron of the day

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> https://stlouis.craigslist.org/cto/d/saint-louis-mercedes-benz-diesel/6934877661.html
>  
> 

I've seen worse.  At least he was able to count to 6!

-- Jim

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