Re: [MBZ] Aluminum washer
Curt, I hate to tell you but it was always a probelm on the filter on that 78. We tried rubber and once we finally got a copper washer to work. We tried a range of torque settings too. Dwight On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 6:10 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: > Hey, > > My '78 240D tends to eat the aluminum washer on the hollow bolt for the > canister fuel filter. Last time I replaced it I snagged the one from my '83 > 240D. I'm wanting to do a diesel purge and filter and figured to get a > spare washer in case this one leaked after the replacement but Rusty tells > me they're NA, that theres a rubber seal ring instead. Anybody else have > this trouble? Anybody try a dealer? Is the rubber ring a suitable > replacement? Anybody ever anneal an aluminum washer? > > -Curt > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum washer
> Curt Raymond wrote: > This is good information. I'm going to order one of the new > type from Rusty but will hold it in reserve and try to anneal > what I have. > > I *think* my IR thermometer goes to 799F so it seems like I > should be able to get in the right range using it and my > plumbers torch if I'm careful. Getting an accurate reading from a shiny, non-black surface with an IR thermometer can be iffy. > I've annealed copper washers a couple times now with good > results. Copper is easy 'cause it doesn't melt before it glows. *grin* -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum washer
This is good information. I'm going to order one of the new type from Rusty but will hold it in reserve and try to anneal what I have. I *think* my IR thermometer goes to 799F so it seems like I should be able to get in the right range using it and my plumbers torch if I'm careful. I've annealed copper washers a couple times now with good results. -Curt Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 00:06:50 -0500 From: Fmiser To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Aluminum washer Message-ID: <20120322000650.73899f42.fmi...@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > G Mann wrote: > 2. Placed the washer /safety wire [with a handle of wire about > 8 inches long] over a gas stove burner and heated the washer > while turning it to heat both sides of the flats until > the .032 stainless wire just started to show some redness from > heat. That's a bit hot. Iron begins glowing at about 550C (1022F), and aluminum melts about 660C (1220F). 400C (750F) is a good target for Aluminum. I did some web searching for a good way to indicate a surface temp of 340C (650F) to 400C (750F). A Sharpie marker is supposed to burn off about that temperature, but one site said only if it wasn't a fresh mark. Another suggestion was apply soap and watch for it turns black. The most accurate would be a temperature indicating stick. http://www.tempil.com/products/tempilstik-original/ Probably overkill for annealing a washer! > 3. Quenched the washer under the kitchen faucet [cold tap]. > You should get a nice "PSssh} Annealing of copper, brass, and aluminum is not generally affected by the speed of the cooling. So quench if you want, or air cool, or whatever suits your fancy. Ferrous metals (iron and steel) _must_ be cooled slowly to anneal. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum washer
All good points. If you have a tray of 100 pieces, and a lab oven with digital control, you could do a very precise job of annealing the washers. This is a down and dirty, "Get'er Done" and "close is good enough" way of doing it. As stated, "it ain't brain surgery" it's just "stop the leak with what you got" time. Caution: If you melt the washer, you are out of a working car. Bottom line: Call "Q" and stock up on what ever replaces them. On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 10:06 PM, Fmiser wrote: > > G Mann wrote: > > > 2. Placed the washer /safety wire [with a handle of wire about > > 8 inches long] over a gas stove burner and heated the washer > > while turning it to heat both sides of the flats until > > the .032 stainless wire just started to show some redness from > > heat. > > That's a bit hot. Iron begins glowing at about 550C (1022F), > and aluminum melts about 660C (1220F). 400C (750F) is a good > target for Aluminum. > > I did some web searching for a good way to indicate a surface > temp of 340C (650F) to 400C (750F). A Sharpie marker is > supposed to burn off about that temperature, but one site said > only if it wasn't a fresh mark. Another suggestion was apply > soap and watch for it turns black. > > The most accurate would be a temperature indicating stick. > http://www.tempil.com/products/tempilstik-original/ > Probably overkill for annealing a washer! > > > 3. Quenched the washer under the kitchen faucet [cold tap]. > > You should get a nice "PSssh} > > Annealing of copper, brass, and aluminum is not generally > affected by the speed of the cooling. So quench if you want, > or air cool, or whatever suits your fancy. Ferrous metals > (iron and steel) _must_ be cooled slowly to anneal. > > -- Philip > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum washer
> G Mann wrote: > 2. Placed the washer /safety wire [with a handle of wire about > 8 inches long] over a gas stove burner and heated the washer > while turning it to heat both sides of the flats until > the .032 stainless wire just started to show some redness from > heat. That's a bit hot. Iron begins glowing at about 550C (1022F), and aluminum melts about 660C (1220F). 400C (750F) is a good target for Aluminum. I did some web searching for a good way to indicate a surface temp of 340C (650F) to 400C (750F). A Sharpie marker is supposed to burn off about that temperature, but one site said only if it wasn't a fresh mark. Another suggestion was apply soap and watch for it turns black. The most accurate would be a temperature indicating stick. http://www.tempil.com/products/tempilstik-original/ Probably overkill for annealing a washer! > 3. Quenched the washer under the kitchen faucet [cold tap]. > You should get a nice "PSssh} Annealing of copper, brass, and aluminum is not generally affected by the speed of the cooling. So quench if you want, or air cool, or whatever suits your fancy. Ferrous metals (iron and steel) _must_ be cooled slowly to anneal. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum washer
Just had the same problem on an 82 300 TD when I replaced the filter. Removed and super cleaned the surfaces and the washer to be sure I had not "created the problem" with foreign material, found none, re-torqued and still leaked. Removed the aluminum washer and annealed it, then a quench it in cold water. The anneal worked, upon torque the washer seal gave no leak. To anneal the washer, I did this: 1. Made a washer holder from stainless safety wire, .032, which held the washer flat like a frying pan with minimum contact from the safety wire [it's not brain surgery after all.. so be inventive] 2. Placed the washer /safety wire [with a handle of wire about 8 inches long] over a gas stove burner and heated the washer while turning it to heat both sides of the flats until the .032 stainless wire just started to show some redness from heat. 3. Quenched the washer under the kitchen faucet [cold tap]. You should get a nice "PSssh} 4. Washer is now Annealed. install it like a new one. Grant... On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 3:10 PM, Curt Raymond wrote: > Hey, > > My '78 240D tends to eat the aluminum washer on the hollow bolt for the > canister fuel filter. Last time I replaced it I snagged the one from my '83 > 240D. I'm wanting to do a diesel purge and filter and figured to get a > spare washer in case this one leaked after the replacement but Rusty tells > me they're NA, that theres a rubber seal ring instead. Anybody else have > this trouble? Anybody try a dealer? Is the rubber ring a suitable > replacement? Anybody ever anneal an aluminum washer? > > -Curt > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum washer
Egads, sounds like it might be time for a call to the classic center. Wish I had an excuse to swing by again... -Curt Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 19:00:28 -0400 From: "Scott Ritchey" To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" Subject: Re: [MBZ] Aluminum washer Message-ID: <8280896AB68042FA8578892638D67DB3@ScottPC> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" Just my experience: I too was unable to source the alum washer from stealer. My 83SD has the alum washer and it tends to leak until I use MUCHO torque on the hollow bolt (so much that I fear breaking something). My 79TD had no alum washer but I think it had had an additional upper O-ring/grove (can't say if this was original); and my 79 filter bolt never leaked. The 79 had a crate engine installed by a PO and that crate engine may have had upgrades from original. Looking at the online EPC, there are two versions of the hollow bolt (A615-990-05-63 and A615-990-08-63) and two versions of the upper seal ring (N007603-18101 and A000-997-00-48) with the first numbers applying to earlier engines. My guess is the N number is the old alum seal which was later superseded by dual rubber O-rings in later engines. I'm not sure if you can just switch to the new style bolt and upper seal ring. There are also two styles of filter heads (the upper housing) and the old style filter head may not seal with the upper rubber o-ring. -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Curt Raymond Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 6:11 PM To: Diesel List Subject: [MBZ] Aluminum washer Hey, My '78 240D tends to eat the aluminum washer on the hollow bolt for the canister fuel filter. Last time I replaced it I snagged the one from my '83 240D. I'm wanting to do a diesel purge and filter and figured to get a spare washer in case this one leaked after the replacement but Rusty tells me they're NA, that theres a rubber seal ring instead. Anybody else have this trouble? Anybody try a dealer? Is the rubber ring a suitable replacement? Anybody ever anneal an aluminum washer? -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum washer
All 3 numbers in EPC are rubber rings, trust me. I bought them all to see. Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® -Original Message- From: "Scott Ritchey" Sender: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2012 19:00:28 To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Aluminum washer Just my experience: I too was unable to source the alum washer from stealer. My 83SD has the alum washer and it tends to leak until I use MUCHO torque on the hollow bolt (so much that I fear breaking something). My 79TD had no alum washer but I think it had had an additional upper O-ring/grove (can't say if this was original); and my 79 filter bolt never leaked. The 79 had a crate engine installed by a PO and that crate engine may have had upgrades from original. Looking at the online EPC, there are two versions of the hollow bolt (A615-990-05-63 and A615-990-08-63) and two versions of the upper seal ring (N007603-18101 and A000-997-00-48) with the first numbers applying to earlier engines. My guess is the N number is the old alum seal which was later superseded by dual rubber O-rings in later engines. I'm not sure if you can just switch to the new style bolt and upper seal ring. There are also two styles of filter heads (the upper housing) and the old style filter head may not seal with the upper rubber o-ring. -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Curt Raymond Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 6:11 PM To: Diesel List Subject: [MBZ] Aluminum washer Hey, My '78 240D tends to eat the aluminum washer on the hollow bolt for the canister fuel filter. Last time I replaced it I snagged the one from my '83 240D. I'm wanting to do a diesel purge and filter and figured to get a spare washer in case this one leaked after the replacement but Rusty tells me they're NA, that theres a rubber seal ring instead. Anybody else have this trouble? Anybody try a dealer? Is the rubber ring a suitable replacement? Anybody ever anneal an aluminum washer? -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum washer
Just my experience: I too was unable to source the alum washer from stealer. My 83SD has the alum washer and it tends to leak until I use MUCHO torque on the hollow bolt (so much that I fear breaking something). My 79TD had no alum washer but I think it had had an additional upper O-ring/grove (can't say if this was original); and my 79 filter bolt never leaked. The 79 had a crate engine installed by a PO and that crate engine may have had upgrades from original. Looking at the online EPC, there are two versions of the hollow bolt (A615-990-05-63 and A615-990-08-63) and two versions of the upper seal ring (N007603-18101 and A000-997-00-48) with the first numbers applying to earlier engines. My guess is the N number is the old alum seal which was later superseded by dual rubber O-rings in later engines. I'm not sure if you can just switch to the new style bolt and upper seal ring. There are also two styles of filter heads (the upper housing) and the old style filter head may not seal with the upper rubber o-ring. -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Curt Raymond Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 6:11 PM To: Diesel List Subject: [MBZ] Aluminum washer Hey, My '78 240D tends to eat the aluminum washer on the hollow bolt for the canister fuel filter. Last time I replaced it I snagged the one from my '83 240D. I'm wanting to do a diesel purge and filter and figured to get a spare washer in case this one leaked after the replacement but Rusty tells me they're NA, that theres a rubber seal ring instead. Anybody else have this trouble? Anybody try a dealer? Is the rubber ring a suitable replacement? Anybody ever anneal an aluminum washer? -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Aluminum washer
Try a hydraulic fitting store. This is typical for a metric hydraulic fitting. -Original Message- From: Curt Raymond Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 6:10 PM To: Diesel List Subject: [MBZ] Aluminum washer Hey, My '78 240D tends to eat the aluminum washer on the hollow bolt for the canister fuel filter. Last time I replaced it I snagged the one from my '83 240D. I'm wanting to do a diesel purge and filter and figured to get a spare washer in case this one leaked after the replacement but Rusty tells me they're NA, that theres a rubber seal ring instead. Anybody else have this trouble? Anybody try a dealer? Is the rubber ring a suitable replacement? Anybody ever anneal an aluminum washer? -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Aluminum washer
Hey, My '78 240D tends to eat the aluminum washer on the hollow bolt for the canister fuel filter. Last time I replaced it I snagged the one from my '83 240D. I'm wanting to do a diesel purge and filter and figured to get a spare washer in case this one leaked after the replacement but Rusty tells me they're NA, that theres a rubber seal ring instead. Anybody else have this trouble? Anybody try a dealer? Is the rubber ring a suitable replacement? Anybody ever anneal an aluminum washer? -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
