Re: [MBZ] Do any shops in the NW do R12 A/C service anymore?
Well, I found out that the inner lip of my discharge port is damaged, which is causing the loud hissing sound. I remember taking note of this when I last had the compressor out of the car, but thought the o-ring would be able to compensate, since the damage is inside the sealing area--no such luck, bucko. Any luck using a file or a peen to smooth out the damage? Check mid-80's Camrys for similar Nippondenso compressors, maybe the manifold plate is the same. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Do any shops in the NW do R12 A/C service anymore?
Well, I found out that the inner lip of my discharge port is damaged, which is causing the loud hissing sound. I remember taking note of this when I last had the compressor out of the car, but thought the o-ring would be able to compensate, since the damage is inside the sealing area--no such luck, bucko. Does anyone have a junk compressor from an OM60X engine that has a good manifold connector plate, or alternately a good used compressor? Anyone have experience purchasing one of the rebuilt units on ebay--any good? That compressor I got a while back from a '92 300E is of an entirely different configuration, and doesn't appear to have any swapable parts--bummer, huh? On 7/21/06, Zeitgeist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I ended up pumping compressed air in there and didn't see anything, but eventually found that the discharge port was leaking when I placed my hand back there. As I said before, those are new o-rings and the bolt was pretty damn tight, so I'm not sure how to make this thing seal correctly. I'm pretty sure I don't want to use any RTV or other goops, but how else can I get that to seal right? Casey Olympia, WA Biodiesel: I drive in a persistent vegetative state '87 300TD intercooler #22 (216k) '84 300D (214k) Gashuffer: '89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K) http://users.zhonka.net/zeitgeist/Misc/IMG_0171.JPG
Re: [MBZ] Do any shops in the NW do R12 A/C service anymore?
wife's 123 with not one, but two cans o' Cathey's cajun-style special hotsauce (isobutane/propane), but it took quite a while for the system to show some signs of life. As of now it's producing vent temps in the high forties, with a low side reading of 20psi and a high side of 120psi (cloudy sight glass). Weird, but if it's working for you don't knock it. I always thought you needed more propane to get good results, and your high pressures are lower than anything I've ever gotten, with significant cooling going on. Is there a surefire way to pinpoint the source of the leak without the use of dyes? This is a fairly large leak so I'm wondering if I can just pressurize the system with my air compressor (via the high side port) and spray soapy water down there to locate the culprit--is this a viable option? I pressurize with propane, and use soapy water (or bubble solution). Are you sure you got the manifold sealed right? All four O-rings? It (and the hose assembly go on loose and are tightened down before putting any stress on the assemblage by mounting bolts, etc. It's _very_ easy to get something cocked and have it not seal otherwise. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Do any shops in the NW do R12 A/C service anymore?
Update of sorts:
I ended up buying a cheap ebay camp stove and soldering the fitting from my
cheesy clamp-on unit to the stove hose; now I'm in bidness! Charged up the
wife's 123 with not one, but two cans o' Cathey's cajun-style special
hotsauce (isobutane/propane), but it took quite a while for the system to
show some signs of life. As of now it's producing vent temps in the high
forties, with a low side reading of 20psi and a high side of 120psi (cloudy
sight glass). I can live with this for now, while I'm testing things.
New A/C problem - different car ('87 300TD):
So, hot on the heels of my recent successful A/C misadventures, I thought
I'd attempt to fix the most important A/C on the planet - my car. I ran a
vacuum for a while, but when I turned off the pump, I watched the gauge fall
to zippo in no time flat. I can hear a distinct hissing sound from
somewhere down near the compressor, but I can't tell from where. Last
winter I replaced the manifold seal as well as the two hose o-rings.[this
A/C hasn't worked since I purchased the car]
Is there a surefire way to pinpoint the source of the leak without the use
of dyes? This is a fairly large leak so I'm wondering if I can just
pressurize the system with my air compressor (via the high side port) and
spray soapy water down there to locate the culprit--is this a viable
option? I know compressed air isn't very dry, but then again neither is a
large system leak, so I'm guessing that I can't do too much damage with this
approach.
Any thoughts?
TIA
On 6/27/06, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hey Jim, thanks for the link. Are you still running the
isobutane/propane
mix in your rigs? I was recently given an ancient Bear brand A/C
recovery
Yah, you betcha. Went out to lunch today in the 450 SL (still for sale
guys!) and the car's outdoor thermometer read 95-100 degrees. The AC
was blowing nice cold air on me, courtesy of $7 worth of R600a/R290.
hoses and fittings. I gather it would be unwise to operate the vehicle
without an auxillary electric fan, eh?
You'd probably get away with it, especially if your system has an
overpressure cutout. (I think they do by then.) You could always
wire the aux fan power lead to a relay to cut out the AC compressor,
if you were worried about it.
I have the R-12 gauges, vacuum pump and new dryer, but I guess I
should get
an IR thermometer and some isobutane at the local outdoor store, but I
don't
know where to find mineral oil (there's currently none in the system
right
I got mine at Schuck's. NAPA might be another source. The IR
thermometer
is handy, but not absolutely necessary.
now). Not sure what to tell my co-worker, a local shop's phonebook ad
says
they work on R12 systems, but their website indicates that these must
be
converted to 134a. I think the typical older vehicle owner is ass-out.
Yep. You could co-op with your coworker, split the cost of any capital
equipment required (gauge set? thermometer? beer?) to do the cars, and
do them both together.
-- Jim
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--
Casey
Olympia, WA
Biodiesel: I drive in a persistent vegetative state
'87 300TD intercooler #22 (216k)
'84 300D (214k)
Gashuffer:
'89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K)
http://users.zhonka.net/zeitgeist/Misc/IMG_0171.JPG
Re: [MBZ] Do any shops in the NW do R12 A/C service anymore?
Zeitgeist wrote: Is there a surefire way to pinpoint the source of the leak without the use of dyes? Since you can hear hissing, how about using a length of hose as a stethoscope? Just stick one end of a hunk of vacuum or fuel hose in your ear, and probe with the other end. It's surprising how well you can pinpoint a noise this way.
Re: [MBZ] Do any shops in the NW do R12 A/C service anymore?
I might give that a try. I tried my mechanic's stethoscope, but couldn't hear anything. On 7/21/06, David Brodbeck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since you can hear hissing, how about using a length of hose as a stethoscope? Just stick one end of a hunk of vacuum or fuel hose in your ear, and probe with the other end. It's surprising how well you can pinpoint a noise this way. ___ Casey Olympia, WA Biodiesel: I drive in a persistent vegetative state '87 300TD intercooler #22 (216k) '84 300D (214k) Gashuffer: '89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K) http://users.zhonka.net/zeitgeist/Misc/IMG_0171.JPG
Re: [MBZ] Do any shops in the NW do R12 A/C service anymore?
Better than soapy water is the bubble making liquid kids play with, cheap and effective. Harry I might give that a try. I tried my mechanic's stethoscope, but couldn't hear anything. On 7/21/06, David Brodbeck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since you can hear hissing, how about using a length of hose as a stethoscope? Just stick one end of a hunk of vacuum or fuel hose in your ear, and probe with the other end. It's surprising how well you can pinpoint a noise this way.
Re: [MBZ] Do any shops in the NW do R12 A/C service anymore?
Well, I ended up pumping compressed air in there and didn't see anything,
but eventually found that the discharge port was leaking when I placed my
hand back there. As I said before, those are new o-rings and the bolt was
pretty damn tight, so I'm not sure how to make this thing seal correctly.
I'm pretty sure I don't want to use any RTV or other goops, but how else can
I get that to seal right?
On 7/21/06, Zeitgeist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Update of sorts:
New A/C problem - different car ('87 300TD):
Is there a surefire way to pinpoint the source of the leak without the use
of dyes? This is a fairly large leak so I'm wondering if I can just
pressurize the system with my air compressor (via the high side port) and
spray soapy water down there to locate the culprit--is this a viable
option? I know compressed air isn't very dry, but then again neither is a
large system leak, so I'm guessing that I can't do too much damage with this
approach.
Casey
Olympia, WA
Biodiesel: I drive in a persistent vegetative state
'87 300TD intercooler #22 (216k)
'84 300D (214k)
Gashuffer:
'89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K)
http://users.zhonka.net/zeitgeist/Misc/IMG_0171.JPG
Re: [MBZ] Do any shops in the NW do R12 A/C service anymore?
I'm still trying to figure out how to gain access to the stuff in the cans, but I think my can-tap will need to be permanently altered in order to facilitate the process. My tap had a hooked side that slipped over the ridge on the neck of the can, and a cam lever that latched over the other side. Then the main body screwed down onto the surface of the top, sealing it with a rubber bit on its end. Then you pierced with the valve. I just substituted band clamps (in effect) for the two sides that would have attached to the can's neck. The center part had enough travel to screw in further to seal against the side of the can. Of course, the fitting liberated from the camp stove is much nicer. Took me a year or two before I stumbled across it, though. http://www.care-refrigerants.co.uk Good reference material there, too. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Do any shops in the NW do R12 A/C service anymore?
I guess I need a different can-tap. Mine looks sorta like this one: http://makeashorterlink.com/?Q17C5285D On 6/29/06, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My tap had a hooked side that slipped over the ridge on the neck of the can, and a cam lever that latched over the other side. Then the main body screwed down onto the surface of the top, sealing it with a rubber bit on its end. Then you pierced with the valve. I just substituted band clamps (in effect) for the two sides that would have attached to the can's neck. The center part had enough travel to screw in further to seal against the side of the can. Casey Olympia, WA Biodiesel: I drive in a persistent vegetative state '87 300TD intercooler #22 (216k) '84 300D (214k) Gashuffer: '89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K) http://users.zhonka.net/zeitgeist/Misc/IMG_0171.JPG
Re: [MBZ] Do any shops in the NW do R12 A/C service anymore?
I guess I need a different can-tap. Mine looks sorta like this one: http://makeashorterlink.com/?Q17C5285D I can see how that would be a problem. Does the metal bit come out of the pliers? You could take a block of wood and scoop out a trough for the fuel can, then drill a hole into which to screw the tap, then band-clamp the whole mess to the can... -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Do any shops in the NW do R12 A/C service anymore?
Curt Raymond wrote: Has anybody ever gotten a shop to use one of the alternate refridgerants? If I owned the shop, and I was set up for R12 reclaiming (I'd have to be in order to do R12-134a conversions) I'd suck out your R12 and replace it with whatever you wanted if you provided me with the refrigerant, conversion fittings, and adapter so I could hook the cans up to my hoses. After that, you'd be on your own if I wasn't set up for Autofrost reclaiming. Autofrost is trying to sell shops on the idea of not recycling refrigerants in house, just reclaim everything into the same cylinder and send the cylinder into a proper recycling shop. Simple, and the shop only needs to have one reclaiming setup for all. Beats having the mystery fluid out of the previous customer's car sold to you as R12. I'm still undecided on my 16v and 300SD. I can go w/o A/C (if I remove it, I save weight and gain room for an intercooler) or I can go with Cathey-Cool or Autofrost until I'm sure the car is worthy of my last few lbs of R12. Mitch.
Re: [MBZ] Do any shops in the NW do R12 A/C service anymore?
Ok, so I stopped by the local outdoor store, but became confused by the dizzying array of propane/butane/isobutane etc. and beat a hasty retreat back into my car and a thumb-sucking fetal position. I thought I wanted straight isobutane, which they don't carry. There were some mixtures of all three and others with just isobutane and propane. Now it looks like it's ok for the latter, but not the former--correct? I've been chemically challenged since 1965, so please have pity on me. Thanks for the NAPA tip. They had to locate a secret squirrel stash up in the attic, but eventually found some mineral oil for me. On 6/27/06, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DIY, my man. We're talking about something like $50/car if you have the tools. Casey Olympia, WA Biodiesel: I drive in a persistent vegetative state '87 300TD intercooler #22 (216k) '84 300D (214k) Gashuffer: '89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K) http://users.zhonka.net/zeitgeist/Misc/IMG_0171.JPG
Re: [MBZ] Do any shops in the NW do R12 A/C service anymore?
I am using autofrost, works great. You have to have a license to buy it though. Forget doing any AC work unless you have a vacuum pump and guages at the min. Curt Raymond wrote: Has anybody ever gotten a shop to use one of the alternate refridgerants? I'd like to use Autofrost but don't have the space or tools (no vacuum pump and more importantly nowhere to plug it in) to do it myself. I'd like to find somebody who could do it, I'd pick up the AutoFrost and have somebody else to do the work. Even better would be somebody who'd let me help so I could see how its done. -Curt Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 13:10:58 -0400 From: Scott Ritchey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Do any shops in the NW do R12 A/C service anymore? To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii But also consider an alternative like Envirosafe ES12a, see http://autorefrigerants.com/. This is probably a DIY solution. I tried ES12a recently and was very pleased. They also sell hoses that connect to the R12 low side as well as a dryer product and little gizmos to check AC oil quality/quantity. I haven't tried their sealer products. There are other refrigerants, like Freeze 12 but I haven't tried them. They have a kit with 3 cans and a hose for $70 as I recall. No need to change the oil (stay with mineral oil) and the pressures are same or lower than R12, both are big advantages in my mind. - Ring'em or ping'em. Make PC-to-phone calls as low as 1¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 420SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D, 84 190D 2.2, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 73 280SEL 4.5, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] Do any shops in the NW do R12 A/C service anymore?
Ok, went back to the outdoor store and bought up their supply of isobutane/propane mixtures (4 cans), but I still need to figure out the best way to On 6/27/06, Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am using autofrost, works great. You have to have a license to buy it though. Forget doing any AC work unless you have a vacuum pump and guages at the min. Curt Raymond wrote: Has anybody ever gotten a shop to use one of the alternate refridgerants? I'd like to use Autofrost but don't have the space or tools (no vacuum pump and more importantly nowhere to plug it in) to do it myself. I'd like to find somebody who could do it, I'd pick up the AutoFrost and have somebody else to do the work. Even better would be somebody who'd let me help so I could see how its done. -Curt Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 13:10:58 -0400 From: Scott Ritchey [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Do any shops in the NW do R12 A/C service anymore? To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii But also consider an alternative like Envirosafe ES12a, see http://autorefrigerants.com/. This is probably a DIY solution. I tried ES12a recently and was very pleased. They also sell hoses that connect to the R12 low side as well as a dryer product and little gizmos to check AC oil quality/quantity. I haven't tried their sealer products. There are other refrigerants, like Freeze 12 but I haven't tried them. They have a kit with 3 cans and a hose for $70 as I recall. No need to change the oil (stay with mineral oil) and the pressures are same or lower than R12, both are big advantages in my mind. - Ring'em or ping'em. Make PC-to-phone calls as low as 1¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 420SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D, 84 190D 2.2, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 73 280SEL 4.5, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Casey Olympia, WA Biodiesel: I drive in a persistent vegetative state '87 300TD intercooler #22 (216k) '84 300D (214k) Gashuffer: '89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K) http://users.zhonka.net/zeitgeist/Misc/IMG_0171.JPG
Re: [MBZ] Do any shops in the NW do R12 A/C service anymore?
[why the hell do I do that? I sent that out before I was done composing--idiot!] Uh yes, as I was attempting to pontificate...I'm trying to figure out the best way to tap into the cans. They're much wider and squatter than your regular freon can, so my tap won't apparently work. I don't want to buy an expensive stove, just to canniballize and use for my illicit purposes. Casey Olympia, WA Biodiesel: I drive in a persistent vegetative state '87 300TD intercooler #22 (216k) '84 300D (214k) Gashuffer: '89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K) http://users.zhonka.net/zeitgeist/Misc/IMG_0171.JPG
Re: [MBZ] Do any shops in the NW do R12 A/C service anymore?
Uh yes, as I was attempting to pontificate...I'm trying to figure out the best way to tap into the cans. They're much wider and squatter than your regular freon can, so my tap won't apparently work. I don't want to buy an expensive stove, just to canniballize and use for my illicit purposes. Until I found my expensive stove for cheap at Goodwill, I made a strap out of a coat hanger that I used, in conjunction with two small vise grips, to clamp the R12 can tap to the side of the can. Then I just let it pierce the can in the side. One vise grip clamped one edge of the tap to the metal lip on the bottom of the can, the other held the band shut clamping the other end of the tap to the can. Worked great, and I never had a leak. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Do any shops in the NW do R12 A/C service anymore?
Jim Cathey wrote: Until I found my expensive stove for cheap at Goodwill, I made a strap out of a coat hanger that I used, in conjunction with two small vise grips, to clamp the R12 can tap to the side of the can. How about a vise grip on the bottom rim of the can and a large hose clamp up above?
Re: [MBZ] Do any shops in the NW do R12 A/C service anymore?
How about a vise grip on the bottom rim of the can and a large hose clamp up above? Sure! I just didn't have a hose clamp that large, and it was quicker to flange one up out of wire than to go get one. Once I had it, then I didn't need the hose clamp anymore, so I never did go get one. -- Jim
[MBZ] Do any shops in the NW do R12 A/C service anymore?
I was talking with a co-worker yesterday about getting the AC working in our MBs. She has a pristine '83 300D, and with the heatwave we're experiencing up here--it's all relative folks--we'd both like to find a place locally to re-charge our R12 systems without converting to 134a like all the shops appear to propose. Some place gave her an off-the-cuff quote of $1k to convert her system over to 134a, which seems outrageous. In my experience, most folks in the NW with cars old enough to require R12 don't ever bother to try and fix them, hence my concern that no one does this around here anymore. First question: Do any shops up here even do R12 service anymore? Second question: How much is a reasonable fee for evacuating the system, RRing the dryer and topping up the mineral oil and R12? I really need to finally fix this in my car, but just can't find the time to bother and track down the requisite R12 and mineral oil, and all the rest of the stuff needed to pull it together. I have the dryer and a brand new evacuation pump, but no spare time. TIA Casey Olympia, WA Biodiesel: I drive in a persistent vegetative state '87 300TD intercooler #22 (215k) '84 300D (213k) Gashuffer: '89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K) http://users.zhonka.net/zeitgeist/Misc/IMG_0171.JPG
Re: [MBZ] Do any shops in the NW do R12 A/C service anymore?
Don't know about WA, but before I left FL, I had my R12 cars serviced several times in the last year or two in the $100-200 range depending on how much R12 they required. But also consider an alternative like Envirosafe ES12a, see http://autorefrigerants.com/. This is probably a DIY solution. I tried ES12a recently and was very pleased. They also sell hoses that connect to the R12 low side as well as a dryer product and little gizmos to check AC oil quality/quantity. I haven't tried their sealer products. There are other refrigerants, like Freeze 12 but I haven't tried them. They have a kit with 3 cans and a hose for $70 as I recall. No need to change the oil (stay with mineral oil) and the pressures are same or lower than R12, both are big advantages in my mind. There is much discussion on the safety of hydrocarbon refrigerants, even on this list, so that's up to you. Personally, I think high-pressure gasoline (like any fuel-injected car) is probably more dangerous, but make your own risk decision. Scott Ritchey Kittrell NC 1982 300SD 220K 1979 300TD 350K -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Zeitgeist Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 12:44 To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: [MBZ] Do any shops in the NW do R12 A/C service anymore? I was talking with a co-worker yesterday about getting the AC working in our MBs. She has a pristine '83 300D, and with the heatwave we're experiencing up here--it's all relative folks--we'd both like to find a place locally to re-charge our R12 systems without converting to 134a like all the shops appear to propose. Some place gave her an off-the-cuff quote of $1k to convert her system over to 134a, which seems outrageous. In my experience, most folks in the NW with cars old enough to require R12 don't ever bother to try and fix them, hence my concern that no one does this around here anymore. First question: Do any shops up here even do R12 service anymore? Second question: How much is a reasonable fee for evacuating the system, RRing the dryer and topping up the mineral oil and R12? I really need to finally fix this in my car, but just can't find the time to bother and track down the requisite R12 and mineral oil, and all the rest of the stuff needed to pull it together. I have the dryer and a brand new evacuation pump, but no spare time. TIA Casey Olympia, WA Biodiesel: I drive in a persistent vegetative state '87 300TD intercooler #22 (215k) '84 300D (213k)
Re: [MBZ] Do any shops in the NW do R12 A/C service anymore?
Hey Jim, thanks for the link. Are you still running the isobutane/propane mix in your rigs? I was recently given an ancient Bear brand A/C recovery unit (minus some key components), so now I have access to lots of spare R-12 hoses and fittings. I gather it would be unwise to operate the vehicle without an auxillary electric fan, eh? I had to remove mine when I reconfigured the front end for the intercooler installation. The coolant temps never even approach 100C under non-A/C driving situations. I'm convinced the intercooler helps to mitigate heatsoak during prolonged highload conditions, like steep grades and such. I have the R-12 gauges, vacuum pump and new dryer, but I guess I should get an IR thermometer and some isobutane at the local outdoor store, but I don't know where to find mineral oil (there's currently none in the system right now). Not sure what to tell my co-worker, a local shop's phonebook ad says they work on R12 systems, but their website indicates that these must be converted to 134a. I think the typical older vehicle owner is ass-out. On 6/27/06, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://cathey.dogear.com/cwair.html Casey Olympia, WA Biodiesel: I drive in a persistent vegetative state '87 300TD intercooler #22 (216k) '84 300D (214k) Gashuffer: '89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K) http://users.zhonka.net/zeitgeist/Misc/IMG_0171.JPG
