Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
I'd think it indicates that they are a problem; disconnect the GP relay on the good one to find out. BTW, GP relays can completely and utterly fail yet still be able to light the light; it seems to happen to the ones that have small slotted head screws holding the case together; one at each corner of the side with all the electrical connections. The two halves of the case have a gasket/o-ring cross-section type of seal between them which can shrink (linearly, not diametrically) and split, leaving a gap through which water can infiltrate. When this happens on the side that mounts to the car, water can get close enough to be drawn in by capillary action. The water gets in and shorts out the electronics; mine was more than half full. (If your GP relay is glued/welded/non-openable, this failure cannot occur) This mode of failure seems particular to instances where the GP relay is mounted vertically beneath the hood/fender joint (I had it happen in an '85 300D, but not in an '84 300SD)... I suspect that water infiltration could also be an issue with relays that were missing the protective cap that covers all the electrical connections; the plastic pin in the place of the sixth GP pin has a vent hole in the very top... Then there are the frakko brand electrolytic crapacitors, which seem to start failing after 10 years or so; this is also what takes out many CC amps... When I had two OM 617's I kept a spare GP relay (and a set of plugs) on the shelf. Using and removing the injection lines, you can replace all of them, including the back one, in about half of an hour... -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Dec 15, 2010, at 16:56, andrew strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: Another question. The good 300TD starts without glowing when the engine is warm. The bad 85 300TD always needs to be glowed before starting, regardless of engine temperature. It starts quicker when it's warm, but I still need to glow it or it cranks a lot. Does this observation mean the glow plugs aren't the problem? On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: Yeah that sounds right. I forget these things, maybe I should use a notebook or something when doing these jobs. But those gearwrenches are great tools. --R On 12/14/2010 10:35 AM, John Reames wrote: An 8mm gearwrench for the electrical connections, and a 10mm for the plugs proper. -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Dec 14, 2010, at 10:28, Rich Thomasrichthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: Might want to check your glow plugs, relay, and CHECK YOUR FUSE. The 84 SD was getting a bit balky, even in warm weather, I replaced a couple of glow plugs and the relay (which did not appear to be relaying very well for reasons unclear), and it fires right up (though I have not yet tried it today after last night way down in the 20s). I CHANGED THE FUSE too, first thing, but it was OK so that was not the issue. Sort of minimal stuff that you should probably check as a matter of course, but makes quite the difference. Note: changing the glow plugs really benefits from a 10mm (I think) gearwrench as that is about the only thing I could fit in there easily to loosen/tighten everything. The relay is easy to change, make sure you disconnect the battery first. --R On 12/14/2010 10:14 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote: This is a new problem for me. The 1985 300TD recently had a valve adjustment so I wasn't too worried about it starting in the cold. Well, I should have been! Yesterday, with a temp of around 23 F., after sitting in the street for a mere 6 hours the 300TD barely started up without running down the (relatively new) battery. I had to key the glow cycle three times for an additional 10-20 seconds each time before it fired up. So how do I diagnose whether this is bad glow plugs or low compression? Or could it be something else? The car never fires up quickly in the best of circumstances, compared to the '83 turbo diesel wagon, although it has adequate power and acceleration. Fuel is clean, too (I recently changed the tank strainer and other filters). As always, TIA. Andrew 1983 300TD starts like a 300TE 1985 300TD needs to be wound up ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
Check the atmospheric vent line to the fuel tank; if it has completely plugged (it can plug with algae inside the tank) then the tank can hold enough vacuum to cause air to be sucked into the lines at the engine (even new ones with new seals, etc), or even to collapse the tank. You can try to remove the fuel fill cap when you shut down; you may hear air being sucked in, or even have to pull the cap pretty hard to get it off the fill tube. Regardless, if removing and reinstalling the cap at shutdown remedies the hot starting issue, suspect a plugged atmospheric vent line. -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Dec 15, 2010, at 19:21, Michael Esh michael...@me.com wrote: Actually i did have a hard starting problem when hot and I still have the problem. Now that it is cold again (michigan) the problem has become less of an issue. I have replaced all hoses and lines as well as installing a new lift pump from Rusty and the check valve on the engine side of the injection pump. Mike On Dec 15, 2010, at 7:01 PM, Rick Knoble wrote: Didn't someone (Micheal Esh perhaps) have a starting problem and just recently figured out the cause of his HOT start problem? Rick Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:02:44 -0600 From: b...@mts.net To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD Didn't someone suggest air leakage into the fuel lines? That sounds like it may not be getting fuel - assuming it has reasonable compression etc. Randy who is no expert on diesels On 15/12/2010 3:56 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote: Another question. The good 300TD starts without glowing when the engine is warm. The bad 85 300TD always needs to be glowed before starting, regardless of engine temperature. It starts quicker when it's warm, but I still need to glow it or it cranks a lot. Does this observation mean the glow plugs aren't the problem? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
I've had good luck with the local Bosch diesel service shop - look in your yellow pages or google them. Also, if you've got a good independent MB shop, they may offer that service as well. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Allan Streib Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 11:26 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net writes: After that, pull the injectors and have the compression checked and have the injectors tested while they're out (don't forget to use new heat shields when you put the injectors back in). Does anyone know of a good injector service shop (can test, balance, and if necessary rebuild injectors using quality components). Or is this something that any diesel service shop normally does fairly well? Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
Thanks - I will definitely try this at home! On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 6:45 AM, John Reames jwrea...@comcast.net wrote: Check the atmospheric vent line to the fuel tank; if it has completely plugged (it can plug with algae inside the tank) then the tank can hold enough vacuum to cause air to be sucked into the lines at the engine (even new ones with new seals, etc), or even to collapse the tank. You can try to remove the fuel fill cap when you shut down; you may hear air being sucked in, or even have to pull the cap pretty hard to get it off the fill tube. Regardless, if removing and reinstalling the cap at shutdown remedies the hot starting issue, suspect a plugged atmospheric vent line. -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Dec 15, 2010, at 19:21, Michael Esh michael...@me.com wrote: Actually i did have a hard starting problem when hot and I still have the problem. Now that it is cold again (michigan) the problem has become less of an issue. I have replaced all hoses and lines as well as installing a new lift pump from Rusty and the check valve on the engine side of the injection pump. Mike On Dec 15, 2010, at 7:01 PM, Rick Knoble wrote: Didn't someone (Micheal Esh perhaps) have a starting problem and just recently figured out the cause of his HOT start problem? Rick Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:02:44 -0600 From: b...@mts.net To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD Didn't someone suggest air leakage into the fuel lines? That sounds like it may not be getting fuel - assuming it has reasonable compression etc. Randy who is no expert on diesels On 15/12/2010 3:56 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote: Another question. The good 300TD starts without glowing when the engine is warm. The bad 85 300TD always needs to be glowed before starting, regardless of engine temperature. It starts quicker when it's warm, but I still need to glow it or it cranks a lot. Does this observation mean the glow plugs aren't the problem? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
Yeah that sounds right. I forget these things, maybe I should use a notebook or something when doing these jobs. But those gearwrenches are great tools. --R On 12/14/2010 10:35 AM, John Reames wrote: An 8mm gearwrench for the electrical connections, and a 10mm for the plugs proper. -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Dec 14, 2010, at 10:28, Rich Thomasrichthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: Might want to check your glow plugs, relay, and CHECK YOUR FUSE. The 84 SD was getting a bit balky, even in warm weather, I replaced a couple of glow plugs and the relay (which did not appear to be relaying very well for reasons unclear), and it fires right up (though I have not yet tried it today after last night way down in the 20s). I CHANGED THE FUSE too, first thing, but it was OK so that was not the issue. Sort of minimal stuff that you should probably check as a matter of course, but makes quite the difference. Note: changing the glow plugs really benefits from a 10mm (I think) gearwrench as that is about the only thing I could fit in there easily to loosen/tighten everything. The relay is easy to change, make sure you disconnect the battery first. --R On 12/14/2010 10:14 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote: This is a new problem for me. The 1985 300TD recently had a valve adjustment so I wasn't too worried about it starting in the cold. Well, I should have been! Yesterday, with a temp of around 23 F., after sitting in the street for a mere 6 hours the 300TD barely started up without running down the (relatively new) battery. I had to key the glow cycle three times for an additional 10-20 seconds each time before it fired up. So how do I diagnose whether this is bad glow plugs or low compression? Or could it be something else? The car never fires up quickly in the best of circumstances, compared to the '83 turbo diesel wagon, although it has adequate power and acceleration. Fuel is clean, too (I recently changed the tank strainer and other filters). As always, TIA. Andrew 1983 300TD starts like a 300TE 1985 300TD needs to be wound up ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
Another question. The good 300TD starts without glowing when the engine is warm. The bad 85 300TD always needs to be glowed before starting, regardless of engine temperature. It starts quicker when it's warm, but I still need to glow it or it cranks a lot. Does this observation mean the glow plugs aren't the problem? On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: Yeah that sounds right. I forget these things, maybe I should use a notebook or something when doing these jobs. But those gearwrenches are great tools. --R On 12/14/2010 10:35 AM, John Reames wrote: An 8mm gearwrench for the electrical connections, and a 10mm for the plugs proper. -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Dec 14, 2010, at 10:28, Rich Thomasrichthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: Might want to check your glow plugs, relay, and CHECK YOUR FUSE. The 84 SD was getting a bit balky, even in warm weather, I replaced a couple of glow plugs and the relay (which did not appear to be relaying very well for reasons unclear), and it fires right up (though I have not yet tried it today after last night way down in the 20s). I CHANGED THE FUSE too, first thing, but it was OK so that was not the issue. Sort of minimal stuff that you should probably check as a matter of course, but makes quite the difference. Note: changing the glow plugs really benefits from a 10mm (I think) gearwrench as that is about the only thing I could fit in there easily to loosen/tighten everything. The relay is easy to change, make sure you disconnect the battery first. --R On 12/14/2010 10:14 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote: This is a new problem for me. The 1985 300TD recently had a valve adjustment so I wasn't too worried about it starting in the cold. Well, I should have been! Yesterday, with a temp of around 23 F., after sitting in the street for a mere 6 hours the 300TD barely started up without running down the (relatively new) battery. I had to key the glow cycle three times for an additional 10-20 seconds each time before it fired up. So how do I diagnose whether this is bad glow plugs or low compression? Or could it be something else? The car never fires up quickly in the best of circumstances, compared to the '83 turbo diesel wagon, although it has adequate power and acceleration. Fuel is clean, too (I recently changed the tank strainer and other filters). As always, TIA. Andrew 1983 300TD starts like a 300TE 1985 300TD needs to be wound up ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
Didn't someone suggest air leakage into the fuel lines? That sounds like it may not be getting fuel - assuming it has reasonable compression etc. Randy who is no expert on diesels On 15/12/2010 3:56 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote: Another question. The good 300TD starts without glowing when the engine is warm. The bad 85 300TD always needs to be glowed before starting, regardless of engine temperature. It starts quicker when it's warm, but I still need to glow it or it cranks a lot. Does this observation mean the glow plugs aren't the problem? On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: Yeah that sounds right. I forget these things, maybe I should use a notebook or something when doing these jobs. But those gearwrenches are great tools. --R On 12/14/2010 10:35 AM, John Reames wrote: An 8mm gearwrench for the electrical connections, and a 10mm for the plugs proper. -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Dec 14, 2010, at 10:28, Rich Thomasrichthomas79td...@constructivity.netwrote: Might want to check your glow plugs, relay, and CHECK YOUR FUSE. The 84 SD was getting a bit balky, even in warm weather, I replaced a couple of glow plugs and the relay (which did not appear to be relaying very well for reasons unclear), and it fires right up (though I have not yet tried it today after last night way down in the 20s). I CHANGED THE FUSE too, first thing, but it was OK so that was not the issue. Sort of minimal stuff that you should probably check as a matter of course, but makes quite the difference. Note: changing the glow plugs really benefits from a 10mm (I think) gearwrench as that is about the only thing I could fit in there easily to loosen/tighten everything. The relay is easy to change, make sure you disconnect the battery first. --R On 12/14/2010 10:14 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote: This is a new problem for me. The 1985 300TD recently had a valve adjustment so I wasn't too worried about it starting in the cold. Well, I should have been! Yesterday, with a temp of around 23 F., after sitting in the street for a mere 6 hours the 300TD barely started up without running down the (relatively new) battery. I had to key the glow cycle three times for an additional 10-20 seconds each time before it fired up. So how do I diagnose whether this is bad glow plugs or low compression? Or could it be something else? The car never fires up quickly in the best of circumstances, compared to the '83 turbo diesel wagon, although it has adequate power and acceleration. Fuel is clean, too (I recently changed the tank strainer and other filters). As always, TIA. Andrew 1983 300TD starts like a 300TE 1985 300TD needs to be wound up ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
Didn't someone (Micheal Esh perhaps) have a starting problem and just recently figured out the cause of his HOT start problem? Rick Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:02:44 -0600 From: b...@mts.net To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD Didn't someone suggest air leakage into the fuel lines? That sounds like it may not be getting fuel - assuming it has reasonable compression etc. Randy who is no expert on diesels On 15/12/2010 3:56 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote: Another question. The good 300TD starts without glowing when the engine is warm. The bad 85 300TD always needs to be glowed before starting, regardless of engine temperature. It starts quicker when it's warm, but I still need to glow it or it cranks a lot. Does this observation mean the glow plugs aren't the problem? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
Actually i did have a hard starting problem when hot and I still have the problem. Now that it is cold again (michigan) the problem has become less of an issue. I have replaced all hoses and lines as well as installing a new lift pump from Rusty and the check valve on the engine side of the injection pump. Mike On Dec 15, 2010, at 7:01 PM, Rick Knoble wrote: Didn't someone (Micheal Esh perhaps) have a starting problem and just recently figured out the cause of his HOT start problem? Rick Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:02:44 -0600 From: b...@mts.net To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD Didn't someone suggest air leakage into the fuel lines? That sounds like it may not be getting fuel - assuming it has reasonable compression etc. Randy who is no expert on diesels On 15/12/2010 3:56 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote: Another question. The good 300TD starts without glowing when the engine is warm. The bad 85 300TD always needs to be glowed before starting, regardless of engine temperature. It starts quicker when it's warm, but I still need to glow it or it cranks a lot. Does this observation mean the glow plugs aren't the problem? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
My 300D (OM617) is not hard to start, but when cold the engine is shaking a lot more than it used to. The colder it is, the more it vibrates. Mostly goes away when warm, or when the throttle is off idle at all. Is this the problem that the the rack damper bold adjustment cures? Or is that for excessive shaking at hot idle? Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
If the rack damper bolt is screwed in too much, you will have hot (and maybe cold too) starting problems. On 12/15/2010 6:32 PM, Allan Streib wrote: My 300D (OM617) is not hard to start, but when cold the engine is shaking a lot more than it used to. The colder it is, the more it vibrates. Mostly goes away when warm, or when the throttle is off idle at all. Is this the problem that the the rack damper bold adjustment cures? Or is that for excessive shaking at hot idle? Allan -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 95 E300, 94 S500, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 350SDL, 91 300D, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 76 240D, 76 300D, http://www.okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
Allan Streib wrote: Is this the problem that the the rack damper bold adjustment cures? Or is that for excessive shaking at hot idle? Uneven running might be a problem with injector or IP balance, or maybe a GP or prechamber isn't quite right. (unless you're really lucky and its just a clogged fuel filter or pickup screen. (but usually by the time it won't idle right, the fuel starvation cuts noticeably into the power) The hand throttle on pre 1980 cars covers up most rough idle issues. I adjusted my 1979 SD up until max hand throttle let the turbo run away with a hot engine, then backed off 1/2 turn on the adjuster. Start the car with full hand throttle, and then drop it to normal idle a couple miles down the road. The slower the idle, the more obvious the roughness. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
No but it points more at the starter or the cables. In the absence of anything else to do you could go around cleaning and inspecting the cables... I don't remember, did you say how old the plugs are? Have you had the engine compression tested? Shouldn't cost much to have that done and it would give you a good baseline. Its also still possible that the valves were set incorrectly. -Curt Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 16:56:04 -0500 From: andrew strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD Message-ID: aanlktimh+tnrkkz+wurkokblq68gjaaq6-0-nutez...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Another question. The good 300TD starts without glowing when the engine is warm. The bad 85 300TD always needs to be glowed before starting, regardless of engine temperature. It starts quicker when it's warm, but I still need to glow it or it cranks a lot. Does this observation mean the glow plugs aren't the problem? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net writes: Uneven running might be a problem with injector or IP balance, or maybe a GP or prechamber isn't quite right. (unless you're really lucky and its just a clogged fuel filter or pickup screen. (but usually by the time it won't idle right, the fuel starvation cuts noticeably into the power) I'm thinking it's not glow plugs because it does start easily. In my experience, starting becomes noticeably difficult in cold weather with even one bad glow plug. Fuel filters... hmm. It has been a while. I think I have some around here somewhere, I'll try changing them tomorrow and see. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
No. You still could have bad glow plugs, low compression (valve adjustment or rings), bad injectors, leaking fuel lines. Your car is trying to tell you that it needs attention; that is all we know so far. The easiest thing to try first is measuring the resistance of the glow plugs. Next would be pulling the pre-glow relay fuse to see if it has cracks or crumbles in your fingers. After that, try operating the manual primer pump; if it leaks, it needs to be replaced. If it doesn't leak, keep pumping while SWMBO tries to start the car (already recommended; if that helps, then you know you have a leak in the fuel system. I'd say the valve adjustment is 3rd from last, as you say it was done recently. After that, pull the injectors and have the compression checked and have the injectors tested while they're out (don't forget to use new heat shields when you put the injectors back in). -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of andrew strasfogel Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 4:56 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD Another question. The good 300TD starts without glowing when the engine is warm. The bad 85 300TD always needs to be glowed before starting, regardless of engine temperature. It starts quicker when it's warm, but I still need to glow it or it cranks a lot. Does this observation mean the glow plugs aren't the problem? On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 9:12 AM, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: Yeah that sounds right. I forget these things, maybe I should use a notebook or something when doing these jobs. But those gearwrenches are great tools. --R On 12/14/2010 10:35 AM, John Reames wrote: An 8mm gearwrench for the electrical connections, and a 10mm for the plugs proper. -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Dec 14, 2010, at 10:28, Rich Thomasrichthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: Might want to check your glow plugs, relay, and CHECK YOUR FUSE. The 84 SD was getting a bit balky, even in warm weather, I replaced a couple of glow plugs and the relay (which did not appear to be relaying very well for reasons unclear), and it fires right up (though I have not yet tried it today after last night way down in the 20s). I CHANGED THE FUSE too, first thing, but it was OK so that was not the issue. Sort of minimal stuff that you should probably check as a matter of course, but makes quite the difference. Note: changing the glow plugs really benefits from a 10mm (I think) gearwrench as that is about the only thing I could fit in there easily to loosen/tighten everything. The relay is easy to change, make sure you disconnect the battery first. --R On 12/14/2010 10:14 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote: This is a new problem for me. The 1985 300TD recently had a valve adjustment so I wasn't too worried about it starting in the cold. Well, I should have been! Yesterday, with a temp of around 23 F., after sitting in the street for a mere 6 hours the 300TD barely started up without running down the (relatively new) battery. I had to key the glow cycle three times for an additional 10-20 seconds each time before it fired up. So how do I diagnose whether this is bad glow plugs or low compression? Or could it be something else? The car never fires up quickly in the best of circumstances, compared to the '83 turbo diesel wagon, although it has adequate power and acceleration. Fuel is clean, too (I recently changed the tank strainer and other filters). As always, TIA. Andrew 1983 300TD starts like a 300TE 1985 300TD needs to be wound up ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net writes: After that, pull the injectors and have the compression checked and have the injectors tested while they're out (don't forget to use new heat shields when you put the injectors back in). Does anyone know of a good injector service shop (can test, balance, and if necessary rebuild injectors using quality components). Or is this something that any diesel service shop normally does fairly well? Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
This is a new problem for me. The 1985 300TD recently had a valve adjustment so I wasn't too worried about it starting in the cold. Well, I should have been! Yesterday, with a temp of around 23 F., after sitting in the street for a mere 6 hours the 300TD barely started up without running down the (relatively new) battery. I had to key the glow cycle three times for an additional 10-20 seconds each time before it fired up. So how do I diagnose whether this is bad glow plugs or low compression? Or could it be something else? The car never fires up quickly in the best of circumstances, compared to the '83 turbo diesel wagon, although it has adequate power and acceleration. Fuel is clean, too (I recently changed the tank strainer and other filters). As always, TIA. Andrew 1983 300TD starts like a 300TE 1985 300TD needs to be wound up ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
Might want to check your glow plugs, relay, and CHECK YOUR FUSE. The 84 SD was getting a bit balky, even in warm weather, I replaced a couple of glow plugs and the relay (which did not appear to be relaying very well for reasons unclear), and it fires right up (though I have not yet tried it today after last night way down in the 20s). I CHANGED THE FUSE too, first thing, but it was OK so that was not the issue. Sort of minimal stuff that you should probably check as a matter of course, but makes quite the difference. Note: changing the glow plugs really benefits from a 10mm (I think) gearwrench as that is about the only thing I could fit in there easily to loosen/tighten everything. The relay is easy to change, make sure you disconnect the battery first. --R On 12/14/2010 10:14 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote: This is a new problem for me. The 1985 300TD recently had a valve adjustment so I wasn't too worried about it starting in the cold. Well, I should have been! Yesterday, with a temp of around 23 F., after sitting in the street for a mere 6 hours the 300TD barely started up without running down the (relatively new) battery. I had to key the glow cycle three times for an additional 10-20 seconds each time before it fired up. So how do I diagnose whether this is bad glow plugs or low compression? Or could it be something else? The car never fires up quickly in the best of circumstances, compared to the '83 turbo diesel wagon, although it has adequate power and acceleration. Fuel is clean, too (I recently changed the tank strainer and other filters). As always, TIA. Andrew 1983 300TD starts like a 300TE 1985 300TD needs to be wound up ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
Were the valves adjusted hot or cold? Were they set at the winter or summer clearances? -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Dec 14, 2010, at 10:14, andrew strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: This is a new problem for me. The 1985 300TD recently had a valve adjustment so I wasn't too worried about it starting in the cold. Well, I should have been! Yesterday, with a temp of around 23 F., after sitting in the street for a mere 6 hours the 300TD barely started up without running down the (relatively new) battery. I had to key the glow cycle three times for an additional 10-20 seconds each time before it fired up. So how do I diagnose whether this is bad glow plugs or low compression? Or could it be something else? The car never fires up quickly in the best of circumstances, compared to the '83 turbo diesel wagon, although it has adequate power and acceleration. Fuel is clean, too (I recently changed the tank strainer and other filters). As always, TIA. Andrew 1983 300TD starts like a 300TE 1985 300TD needs to be wound up ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
An 8mm gearwrench for the electrical connections, and a 10mm for the plugs proper. -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Dec 14, 2010, at 10:28, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: Might want to check your glow plugs, relay, and CHECK YOUR FUSE. The 84 SD was getting a bit balky, even in warm weather, I replaced a couple of glow plugs and the relay (which did not appear to be relaying very well for reasons unclear), and it fires right up (though I have not yet tried it today after last night way down in the 20s). I CHANGED THE FUSE too, first thing, but it was OK so that was not the issue. Sort of minimal stuff that you should probably check as a matter of course, but makes quite the difference. Note: changing the glow plugs really benefits from a 10mm (I think) gearwrench as that is about the only thing I could fit in there easily to loosen/tighten everything. The relay is easy to change, make sure you disconnect the battery first. --R On 12/14/2010 10:14 AM, andrew strasfogel wrote: This is a new problem for me. The 1985 300TD recently had a valve adjustment so I wasn't too worried about it starting in the cold. Well, I should have been! Yesterday, with a temp of around 23 F., after sitting in the street for a mere 6 hours the 300TD barely started up without running down the (relatively new) battery. I had to key the glow cycle three times for an additional 10-20 seconds each time before it fired up. So how do I diagnose whether this is bad glow plugs or low compression? Or could it be something else? The car never fires up quickly in the best of circumstances, compared to the '83 turbo diesel wagon, although it has adequate power and acceleration. Fuel is clean, too (I recently changed the tank strainer and other filters). As always, TIA. Andrew 1983 300TD starts like a 300TE 1985 300TD needs to be wound up ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
This is a new problem for me. The 1985 300TD recently had a valve adjustment so I wasn't too worried about it starting in the cold. Well, I should have been! Yesterday, with a temp of around 23 F., after sitting in the street for a mere 6 hours the 300TD barely started up without running down the (relatively new) battery. I had to key the glow cycle three times for an additional 10-20 seconds each time before it fired up. It could also be poorly-adjusted valves! How's your cranking RPM? It's critical. Cold weather is also where synthetic oil shines, it helps the engine turn over quicker, which improves starting. The Albatross was always a reluctant starter. High miles, but the compression was OK. (Not great, but OK.) What is the voltage at each plug when you hit the glow? You could pull each pencil glow plug and clamp it in a vise, then use the ammeter/battery trick to see how its current draw behaved, and how hot the tip gets, and whether or not the heat pattern is correct. (You need an old-school dashboard ammeter, most multimeters will be killed by the high current required.) Or you could just replace them all. And, of course, there's always the compression check. I bought the Harbor Freight kit, on sale. See the Albatross' log: http://userweb.windwireless.net/~jimc/mb240d.html -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
The car never fires up quickly in the best of circumstances, compared to the '83 turbo diesel wagon, although it has adequate power and acceleration. This is indicative of air leaking into the fuel system. Try pumping up the fuel with the primer pump then having someone glow and start the car while you continue to pump. It the engine starte noticably faster, then you have an air leak. Most likely culprits are the hoses, and connections, the primer pump and the possibility of rust on the steel lines. If you see a fuel leak, it it long past leaking air. Most air leaks do not leak fuel. This is a new problem for me. The 1985 300TD recently had a valve adjustment so I wasn't too worried about it starting in the cold. Well, I should have been! Yesterday, with a temp of around 23 F., after sitting in the street for a mere 6 hours the 300TD barely started up without running down the (relatively new) battery. I had to key the glow cycle three times for an additional 10-20 seconds each time before it fired up. So how do I diagnose whether this is bad glow plugs or low compression? Or could it be something else? The car never fires up quickly in the best of circumstances, compared to the '83 turbo diesel wagon, although it has adequate power and acceleration. Fuel is clean, too (I recently changed the tank strainer and other filters). As always, TIA. Andrew 1983 300TD starts like a 300TE 1985 300TD needs to be wound up ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
Never heard of winter clearances, except I dimly recall something about clearances for *really* cold/arctic conditions. I've always heard the need to be adjusted dead cold. As in, sitting overnight, and not even started to pull into the garage/service area. Allan On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 10:33 -0500, John Reames jwrea...@comcast.net wrote: Were the valves adjusted hot or cold? Were they set at the winter or summer clearances? -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Dec 14, 2010, at 10:14, andrew strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: This is a new problem for me. The 1985 300TD recently had a valve adjustment so I wasn't too worried about it starting in the cold. Well, I should have been! Yesterday, with a temp of around 23 F., after sitting in the street for a mere 6 hours the 300TD barely started up without running down the (relatively new) battery. I had to key the glow cycle three times for an additional 10-20 seconds each time before it fired up. So how do I diagnose whether this is bad glow plugs or low compression? Or could it be something else? The car never fires up quickly in the best of circumstances, compared to the '83 turbo diesel wagon, although it has adequate power and acceleration. Fuel is clean, too (I recently changed the tank strainer and other filters). As always, TIA. Andrew 1983 300TD starts like a 300TE 1985 300TD needs to be wound up ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
The valves were adjusted COLD. I see no reason to R/R the glow plug fuse (it either works or it doesn't - right?) but I could R/R the glow plug RELAY if you think that is worth a try. I don't have the wherewithal (unheated garage) to remove and test the glow plugs. Not aware of any leaks either either but I could pump the primer while SWMBO is cranking. If I plugged in the car prior to starting and it fired right up, what would that mean with regard to these other possible issues? Andrew 1983 and 1985 300TDs On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: Never heard of winter clearances, except I dimly recall something about clearances for *really* cold/arctic conditions. I've always heard the need to be adjusted dead cold. As in, sitting overnight, and not even started to pull into the garage/service area. Allan On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 10:33 -0500, John Reames jwrea...@comcast.net wrote: Were the valves adjusted hot or cold? Were they set at the winter or summer clearances? -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Dec 14, 2010, at 10:14, andrew strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: This is a new problem for me. The 1985 300TD recently had a valve adjustment so I wasn't too worried about it starting in the cold. Well, I should have been! Yesterday, with a temp of around 23 F., after sitting in the street for a mere 6 hours the 300TD barely started up without running down the (relatively new) battery. I had to key the glow cycle three times for an additional 10-20 seconds each time before it fired up. So how do I diagnose whether this is bad glow plugs or low compression? Or could it be something else? The car never fires up quickly in the best of circumstances, compared to the '83 turbo diesel wagon, although it has adequate power and acceleration. Fuel is clean, too (I recently changed the tank strainer and other filters). As always, TIA. Andrew 1983 300TD starts like a 300TE 1985 300TD needs to be wound up ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
23F isn't even cold in any realistic sense, car should start good for another 20 degrees. When was the last time the glows were changed? How old is the battery? Relatively new means nothing, if its more than 3 years old its suspect. The car should crank quickly for a long time, if its slowing down noticably before 20 or 30 seconds goes by it needs replacing. Does this car crank noticably more slowly than your other one? Maybe its due for a starter. -Curt Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 10:14:11 -0500 From: andrew strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD Message-ID: aanlktin3p-ee+-p3v9mpwvxqflxbn7jhbroabnlvk...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 This is a new problem for me. The 1985 300TD recently had a valve adjustment so I wasn't too worried about it starting in the cold. Well, I should have been! Yesterday, with a temp of around 23 F., after sitting in the street for a mere 6 hours the 300TD barely started up without running down the (relatively new) battery. I had to key the glow cycle three times for an additional 10-20 seconds each time before it fired up. So how do I diagnose whether this is bad glow plugs or low compression? Or could it be something else? The car never fires up quickly in the best of circumstances, compared to the '83 turbo diesel wagon, although it has adequate power and acceleration. Fuel is clean, too (I recently changed the tank strainer and other filters). As always, TIA. Andrew 1983 300TD starts like a 300TE 1985 300TD needs to be wound up ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
Get the current draw tested for the starter. Chances are it's turning slow and it's not gonna start, also draws too much juice. 900A is the spec for a new starter, up to 1100 or so is OK, more than that it's time for a replacement. DO NOT just put new bushings and brushes in, this will not fix the excessive resistance in the windings. Must have a new armature, like a proper Bosch rebuild. You might want to leave the valves a bit loose, too, and check them again after a few hundred miles. Carbon will build up on the valves and give you a false reading for clearance -- it wears off when you let the valve rise more, then you have tight valves again! If it's not smoking a big cloud of white smoke while you are cranking and it won't start, you have a fuel delivery problem. And I would change all the glow plugs if you have not done so in the that three years, they don't last forever. Peter -Original Message- From: Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu Sent: Dec 14, 2010 11:56 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD Never heard of winter clearances, except I dimly recall something about clearances for *really* cold/arctic conditions. I've always heard the need to be adjusted dead cold. As in, sitting overnight, and not even started to pull into the garage/service area. Allan On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 10:33 -0500, John Reames jwrea...@comcast.net wrote: Were the valves adjusted hot or cold? Were they set at the winter or summer clearances? -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Dec 14, 2010, at 10:14, andrew strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: This is a new problem for me. The 1985 300TD recently had a valve adjustment so I wasn't too worried about it starting in the cold. Well, I should have been! Yesterday, with a temp of around 23 F., after sitting in the street for a mere 6 hours the 300TD barely started up without running down the (relatively new) battery. I had to key the glow cycle three times for an additional 10-20 seconds each time before it fired up. So how do I diagnose whether this is bad glow plugs or low compression? Or could it be something else? The car never fires up quickly in the best of circumstances, compared to the '83 turbo diesel wagon, although it has adequate power and acceleration. Fuel is clean, too (I recently changed the tank strainer and other filters). As always, TIA. Andrew 1983 300TD starts like a 300TE 1985 300TD needs to be wound up ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
Marshall used to say that the fusible link could look fine but still be a problem. You can check resistance of the glow plugs in situ. The resistance is fairly low; you need a halfway decent meter, and I can't recall what the normal value is. But any plugs that measure higher than than the others are suspect. Allan On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 13:14 -0500, andrew strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: The valves were adjusted COLD. I see no reason to R/R the glow plug fuse (it either works or it doesn't - right?) but I could R/R the glow plug RELAY if you think that is worth a try. I don't have the wherewithal (unheated garage) to remove and test the glow plugs. Not aware of any leaks either either but I could pump the primer while SWMBO is cranking. If I plugged in the car prior to starting and it fired right up, what would that mean with regard to these other possible issues? Andrew 1983 and 1985 300TDs ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
Oh, and disconnect the glow plug harness where it plugs into the relay before measuring resistance. On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 14:10 -0500, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: Marshall used to say that the fusible link could look fine but still be a problem. You can check resistance of the glow plugs in situ. The resistance is fairly low; you need a halfway decent meter, and I can't recall what the normal value is. But any plugs that measure higher than than the others are suspect. Allan On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 13:14 -0500, andrew strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: The valves were adjusted COLD. I see no reason to R/R the glow plug fuse (it either works or it doesn't - right?) but I could R/R the glow plug RELAY if you think that is worth a try. I don't have the wherewithal (unheated garage) to remove and test the glow plugs. Not aware of any leaks either either but I could pump the primer while SWMBO is cranking. If I plugged in the car prior to starting and it fired right up, what would that mean with regard to these other possible issues? Andrew 1983 and 1985 300TDs ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
If using the block heater will make it fire right up, I think that would indicate compression improves with heat, which could be poorly adjusted valves or worn out piston rings. -Max From: andrew strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 1:14:40 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD The valves were adjusted COLD. I see no reason to R/R the glow plug fuse (it either works or it doesn't - right?) but I could R/R the glow plug RELAY if you think that is worth a try. I don't have the wherewithal (unheated garage) to remove and test the glow plugs. Not aware of any leaks either either but I could pump the primer while SWMBO is cranking. If I plugged in the car prior to starting and it fired right up, what would that mean with regard to these other possible issues? Andrew 1983 and 1985 300TDs On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: Never heard of winter clearances, except I dimly recall something about clearances for *really* cold/arctic conditions. I've always heard the need to be adjusted dead cold. As in, sitting overnight, and not even started to pull into the garage/service area. Allan On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 10:33 -0500, John Reames jwrea...@comcast.net wrote: Were the valves adjusted hot or cold? Were they set at the winter or summer clearances? -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Dec 14, 2010, at 10:14, andrew strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: This is a new problem for me. The 1985 300TD recently had a valve adjustment so I wasn't too worried about it starting in the cold. Well, I should have been! Yesterday, with a temp of around 23 F., after sitting in the street for a mere 6 hours the 300TD barely started up without running down the (relatively new) battery. I had to key the glow cycle three times for an additional 10-20 seconds each time before it fired up. So how do I diagnose whether this is bad glow plugs or low compression? Or could it be something else? The car never fires up quickly in the best of circumstances, compared to the '83 turbo diesel wagon, although it has adequate power and acceleration. Fuel is clean, too (I recently changed the tank strainer and other filters). As always, TIA. Andrew 1983 300TD starts like a 300TE 1985 300TD needs to be wound up ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
Dude, I replaced the glowplugs in my 240D once in the parking lot of my apartment complex at 7pm with SWMBO holding a flashlight, it was 10F... If you want to be safe and sure just replace all the glowplugs, its not all that expensive and not all that hard. -Curt Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 13:14:40 -0500 From: andrew strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD Message-ID: aanlkti=nftpu--uh7a-vvzs0urnhl78m=m3mka=go...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The valves were adjusted COLD. I see no reason to R/R the glow plug fuse (it either works or it doesn't - right?) but I could R/R the glow plug RELAY if you think that is worth a try. I don't have the wherewithal (unheated garage) to remove and test the glow plugs. Not aware of any leaks either either but I could pump the primer while SWMBO is cranking. If I plugged in the car prior to starting and it fired right up, what would that mean with regard to these other possible issues? Andrew 1983 and 1985 300TDs ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
Or bad glowplugs. I drove my '83 240D with 2 bad plugs (which means none were working I think) once for a couple days while Rusty got me replacements. I brought my big battery and inverter so it'd start easier... -Curt Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 11:55:40 -0800 (PST) From: Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD Message-ID: 615202.12098...@web180003.mail.gq1.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If using the block heater will make it fire right up, I think that would indicate compression improves with heat, which could be poorly adjusted valves or worn out piston rings. -Max ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
So Curt, it sounds like you are betting the farm that replacing all my GPs will solve the problem. I love ordering parts anyway, so this diagnosis and relatively easy solution makes me happier than any of the others. Except that the weak starter hypothesis sounds just as persuasive. BTW, the battery in this car was replaced in the spring of 2010 with a big honking Diehard, so that's what I mean by relatively new. The fact that I was unable to kill it last night means it must still be more than adequate for the task. On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 4:18 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: Or bad glowplugs. I drove my '83 240D with 2 bad plugs (which means none were working I think) once for a couple days while Rusty got me replacements. I brought my big battery and inverter so it'd start easier... -Curt Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 11:55:40 -0800 (PST) From: Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD Message-ID: 615202.12098...@web180003.mail.gq1.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If using the block heater will make it fire right up, I think that would indicate compression improves with heat, which could be poorly adjusted valves or worn out piston rings. -Max ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
Glow plugs are not really expensive, but there are 5 of them. That's $85 - $100 from Rusty depending on whether you go with Bosch or Beru (the latter being preferable). In my book that's not money you spend without being reasonably sure it's going to solve the problem. I'd at least measure resistance on each plug. I think the desired reading is about .6 ohms. Over 1 ohm and it's bad. Meters vary, especially cheap ones at that low a range, so if four are the same and one is higher that's also indicative. Even one bad plug will make starting significantly harder especially as temps drop. See http://www.dieselgiant.com/glowplugrepair.htm On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 13:18 -0800, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: Or bad glowplugs. I drove my '83 240D with 2 bad plugs (which means none were working I think) once for a couple days while Rusty got me replacements. I brought my big battery and inverter so it'd start easier... -Curt Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 11:55:40 -0800 (PST) From: Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD Message-ID: 615202.12098...@web180003.mail.gq1.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If using the block heater will make it fire right up, I think that would indicate compression improves with heat, which could be poorly adjusted valves or worn out piston rings. -Max ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
On the sticker on the radiator crossmember, there are two possible intake clearances along with temperature info... -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Dec 14, 2010, at 12:56, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: Never heard of winter clearances, except I dimly recall something about clearances for *really* cold/arctic conditions. I've always heard the need to be adjusted dead cold. As in, sitting overnight, and not even started to pull into the garage/service area. Allan On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 10:33 -0500, John Reames jwrea...@comcast.net wrote: Were the valves adjusted hot or cold? Were they set at the winter or summer clearances? -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Dec 14, 2010, at 10:14, andrew strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: This is a new problem for me. The 1985 300TD recently had a valve adjustment so I wasn't too worried about it starting in the cold. Well, I should have been! Yesterday, with a temp of around 23 F., after sitting in the street for a mere 6 hours the 300TD barely started up without running down the (relatively new) battery. I had to key the glow cycle three times for an additional 10-20 seconds each time before it fired up. So how do I diagnose whether this is bad glow plugs or low compression? Or could it be something else? The car never fires up quickly in the best of circumstances, compared to the '83 turbo diesel wagon, although it has adequate power and acceleration. Fuel is clean, too (I recently changed the tank strainer and other filters). As always, TIA. Andrew 1983 300TD starts like a 300TE 1985 300TD needs to be wound up ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
Allan Streib wrote: Marshall used to say that the fusible link could look fine but still be a problem. You can check resistance of the glow plugs in situ. The resistance is fairly low; you need a halfway decent meter, and I can't recall what the normal value is. But any plugs that measure higher than than the others are suspect. What I have found to be the most dependable way to check plugs is with a current meter. I use an old-fashioned automotive ammeter. The ones that display -30,0,+30. I put 12AWG wire leads on it. To use it, I pop the top off of the glow relay and unplug the connector for the glow plugs. There is a contact for each glow plug in this connector, so I clip on meter lead to the fused side of the big, screw-in fuse and then touch each contact, one at a time. The socket has pin numbers molded into it, and these numbers correspond to the cylinder number. This method tests the supply 12V, the wire, and the plug. When cold, a good plug draws about 20A (Well, on my meter it point to the mark for 20 amps. I have not calibrated or tested the accuracy of that meter...) It will drop back to about 15A after 8-10 seconds. If the plug is bad, the current will be less. If the wire or connectors are in poor shape, the current will be less. If the supply voltage is low, the current will be less. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
Best is to set the valves cold, after sitting at least overnight. For winter, the valves clearances are set .002 inch wider. I usually ran the winter clearances year round. You loose a little in performance, but don't have starting problems when the weather went cold suddenly. On the sticker on the radiator crossmember, there are two possible intake clearances along with temperature info... -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Dec 14, 2010, at 12:56, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: Never heard of winter clearances, except I dimly recall something about clearances for *really* cold/arctic conditions. I've always heard the need to be adjusted dead cold. As in, sitting overnight, and not even started to pull into the garage/service area. Allan On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 10:33 -0500, John Reames jwrea...@comcast.net wrote: Were the valves adjusted hot or cold? Were they set at the winter or summer clearances? -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Dec 14, 2010, at 10:14, andrew strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: This is a new problem for me. The 1985 300TD recently had a valve adjustment so I wasn't too worried about it starting in the cold. Well, I should have been! Yesterday, with a temp of around 23 F., after sitting in the street for a mere 6 hours the 300TD barely started up without running down the (relatively new) battery. I had to key the glow cycle three times for an additional 10-20 seconds each time before it fired up. So how do I diagnose whether this is bad glow plugs or low compression? Or could it be something else? The car never fires up quickly in the best of circumstances, compared to the '83 turbo diesel wagon, although it has adequate power and acceleration. Fuel is clean, too (I recently changed the tank strainer and other filters). As always, TIA. Andrew 1983 300TD starts like a 300TE 1985 300TD needs to be wound up ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
andrew wrote: I had to key the glow cycle three times for an additional 10-20 seconds each time before it fired up. You can hear the relay click 'off' - a noticeable click sound. Do not just let it sit 20-20 seconds - the relay releases at about 90 seconds. Then, do that complete cycle 2 or three times and you have played with glow cycle for probably 4 minutes, not just 10-20 seconds. Are you letting the relay release? mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
If I plugged in the car prior to starting and it fired right up, what would that mean with regard to these other possible issues? It clears the fuel system. Probably. Everything else mentioned so far is temperature-dependent, and would thus be helped by the block heater. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD
Allen is right its not an inconsiderable expense, Beru plugs from Rusty are ~$95... I'm saying 50% chance its glowplugs, 50% its the starter. Your battery is new not relatively new ;) Should be easy enough to tell if the bad car is cranking fast enough just by ear, fortunately you've got a good car to compare it to. You could always swap glow plugs between cars... Of course it'd be a lot of work. As I said before swapping glowplugs isn't hard but its not really any fun either. Having done it in the cold I go out of my way to NOT have to. I did the '78 240D last month, assuming it gets through the winter the '84 190D will get new plugs next summer some time. I'd rather do them too early but out in the warm than wait for a failure and do it out in the cold... -Curt Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 16:55:29 -0500 From: andrew strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard starting 300TD Message-ID: aanlktimr-ebyuvoqw+qr7tb3hvwz3tz_okjtx4yfr...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 So Curt, it sounds like you are betting the farm that replacing all my GPs will solve the problem. I love ordering parts anyway, so this diagnosis and relatively easy solution makes me happier than any of the others. Except that the weak starter hypothesis sounds just as persuasive. BTW, the battery in this car was replaced in the spring of 2010 with a big honking Diehard, so that's what I mean by relatively new. The fact that I was unable to kill it last night means it must still be more than adequate for the task. On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 4:18 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: Or bad glowplugs. I drove my '83 240D with 2 bad plugs (which means none were working I think) once for a couple days while Rusty got me replacements. I brought my big battery and inverter so it'd start easier... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
