Re: [MBZ] How much do we really care about MPG?

[Donald Snook via Mercedes]

I agree I don't drive that much.  I used to have to drive a lot more for work.  
But, it is much less now.  When I was considering a change in firm, it would 
have involved a 50 mile commute (one way) and I would definitely have been in 
the same situation as you.  I would probably want to buy something that 
maximized my fuel mileage.   

I share my office building with a child therapist. She had an older Toyota 
Tacoma and loved it.  I noticed she has been gone a lot and I asked about it.  
She is seeing patients at a different office twice a week.  The trip is about 
100 miles one way and she was really complaining about the gas.  It has not 
been an issue before because her house is about a mile from the office.   I 
noticed there was a new VW Passat in her space the other day.  She said she 
decided to keep her truck but wanted something to rack up the miles.  She 
bought a 2016 Passat with 4,000 miles on it.  She claimed that it gets almost 
40 MPG.  

Don Snook

-Original Message-
From: Curt Raymond [mailto:curtlud...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 08, 2016 12:46 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] How much do we really care about MPG?

You don't drive very much... I average twice your mileage so for me the 
difference would be more like $100 a month, but actually the change would be 
from my 50mpg Jetta down so a really massive change. My commute is 59 miles 
each way which is absurd I know...
This is why we have more than one vehicle, the Jetta was cheap and having it 
keeps miles off the Dodge and saves money on fuel. Its also cheaper to maintain 
a crapbox fwd than a 4wd anything, everything about it is cheaper so it 
basically pays for itself.
Not sure if that helps, everybody's situation is different.
-Curt

  From: Donald Snook via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Donald Snook <d...@snooklawllc.com>
 Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2016 1:39 PM
 Subject: [MBZ] How much do we really care about MPG?
   
I have liked the Jeep Grand Wagoneer ever since I was kid.  Maybe it was 
because we could never afford one or it could just be because I like the looks 
of them.  I was thinking about trying to find one to buy.  The prices on them 
are outrageous - but that is another subject.  One thing I was considering was 
how bad the gas mileage is for them.  They get about 11-12 mpg.  With cars 
routinely getting 20-35 mpg (or more) anything that gets 11 or 12 sounds truly 
awful.  Of course, when gas was $1.25 a gallon people didn't care that much.  
And gas is still relatively cheap when compared to the price increases in other 
things (food, housing, medical costs, etc).  I started thinking about whether 
we (as Americans) are really concerned about gas mileage.  I have seen lots of 
anecdotal evidence (and a few actual studies) that show selling a car or 
trading in a car to get a newer car only to increase gas mileage doesn't really 
make economic sense when you consider all the factors.  Of course, if your 
primary concern is fuel mileage than it does make sense.

I did the math and my current car (2001 BMW 740iL) costs me approximately $1900 
a year in gas (premium unleaded). If I bought a Grand Wagoneer, which would be 
widely regarded as a gas hog, the cost for the same 15,000 miles of driving 
would be approximately $2500.  So, for about $50 extra a month I can drive a 
gas guzzler Grand Wagoneer.  Therefore, the question is does it really bother 
me to buy one extra tank of gas per month?  Probably not.    This surprised me 
because when I first considered a Wagoneer my immediate reaction was the gas 
mileage would really hurt and I thought it would be a real burden.  But, its 
really one extra tank a month - who cares.  And my own attitude has me a little 
concerned.  Shouldn't I care more?

I suppose if I was driving a car that averaged 30 mpg, then I would be spending 
about $1000 a year and multiplying my fuel cost by 2.5 times probably would be 
noticeable and painful.

I don't know if this is just food for thought or my own rambling thoughts that 
may or may not be relevant.

Don Snook
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Re: [MBZ] How much do we really care about MPG?

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Read it again:  "Back in 1975, you could not give away a peecup or a 
suburban ..."  Did you catch the key words this time?  Clue:  "Back in 
1975"  (after the price of fuel doubled)   30¢ to 60¢


The sentence before was saying that MPG does not matter now to most of 
those who buy new vehicles, as most are SUVs or Pickups.   Nothing said 
Peekups are cheap now.  That and the "SUV" is where the carmakers make 
all their profits.


Together the two sentences draw a contrast between 1975 and now.



Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

If you're trying to suggest pickups are cheap then try again. They easily price 
into the stratosphere, to get seating for 4 you're already over the price of a 
Prius...
-Curt



   Back in 1975, you could not give away a
peecup or a suburban, or even the big bronco/rumchugger/whatever the GM
versions were called.  Caddys were cheap, as were linkuns and the big
crypslers.



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Re: [MBZ] How much do we really care about MPG?

[OK Don via Mercedes]

You are assuming that gas prices will stay this low. It was not that long
ago that $4/gal. gas was common. What will it be next year? Who knows - -
will we put up with the fracking that's causing earthquakes to keep gas
prices low?

On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 1:39 PM, Donald Snook via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I have liked the Jeep Grand Wagoneer ever since I was kid.  Maybe it was
> because we could never afford one or it could just be because I like the
> looks of them.   I was thinking about trying to find one to buy.  The
> prices on them are outrageous - but that is another subject.  One thing I
> was considering was how bad the gas mileage is for them.  They get about
> 11-12 mpg.  With cars routinely getting 20-35 mpg (or more) anything that
> gets 11 or 12 sounds truly awful.  Of course, when gas was $1.25 a gallon
> people didn't care that much.  And gas is still relatively cheap when
> compared to the price increases in other things (food, housing, medical
> costs, etc).  I started thinking about whether we (as Americans) are really
> concerned about gas mileage.  I have seen lots of anecdotal evidence (and a
> few actual studies) that show selling a car or trading in a car to get a
> newer car only to increase gas mileage doesn't really make economic sense
> when you consider all the factors.  Of course, if your primary concern is
> fuel mileage than it does make sense.
>
> I did the math and my current car (2001 BMW 740iL) costs me approximately
> $1900 a year in gas (premium unleaded). If I bought a Grand Wagoneer, which
> would be widely regarded as a gas hog, the cost for the same 15,000 miles
> of driving would be approximately $2500.  So, for about $50 extra a month I
> can drive a gas guzzler Grand Wagoneer.  Therefore, the question is does it
> really bother me to buy one extra tank of gas per month?   Probably not.
> This surprised me because when I first considered a Wagoneer my immediate
> reaction was the gas mileage would really hurt and I thought it would be a
> real burden.  But, its really one extra tank a month - who cares.  And my
> own attitude has me a little concerned.  Shouldn't I care more?
>
> I suppose if I was driving a car that averaged 30 mpg, then I would be
> spending about $1000 a year and multiplying my fuel cost by 2.5 times
> probably would be noticeable and painful.
>
> I don't know if this is just food for thought or my own rambling thoughts
> that may or may not be relevant.
>
> Don Snook
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>


-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] How much do we really care about MPG?

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I'll give you $500 for it ;)

  From: Jim Cathey <jim.cathey...@gmail.com>
 To: Curt Raymond <curtlud...@yahoo.com>; Mercedes Discussion List 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
 Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2016 10:03 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] How much do we really care about MPG?
   
My 1997 pickup (which was around $26k used with 16kmi on it) is hovering around 
$60k new, now.Mine's barely broken in, at 105kmi.
-- Jim


   
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Re: [MBZ] How much do we really care about MPG?

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

My 1997 pickup (which was around $26k used with 16kmi on it) is hovering
around $60k new, now.
Mine's barely broken in, at 105kmi.

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] How much do we really care about MPG?

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

No, not at all. Read it again.


Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
September 8, 2016 at 8:24 PM
If you're trying to suggest pickups are cheap then try again. They 
easily price into the stratosphere, to get seating for 4 you're 
already over the price of a Prius...

-Curt


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Re: [MBZ] How much do we really care about MPG?

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

If you're trying to suggest pickups are cheap then try again. They easily price 
into the stratosphere, to get seating for 4 you're already over the price of a 
Prius...
-Curt

  From: Curley McLain via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Curley McLain <126die...@gmail.com>
 Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2016 4:09 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] How much do we really care about MPG?
   
That is exactly why po' folks who seldom leave the county or say a 30 
mile radius, drove the big ol boats of the 70s and 80s for decades.  the 
cheapness of buying the car offset the loss in fuel consumption.  When 
we were driving over 60 miles a day, 6-7 days a week, the wabbit dissel, 
and later the Quantum, and Escort Dissels made sense.  I could justify 
the cost of a new escort on fuel savings alone over the 17 MPG Plymie 
Valiant.

A $500 boat nobody wants vs a $5000 car buys a lot of fuel on a modest 
number of  miles/year.  The trick is to find a boat in good shape for $500.

Merkun ppl have figgered this out, as most new vehicles sold are pickups 
and SUVs that are NOT miserly.  Back in 1975, you could not give away a 
peecup or a suburban, or even the big bronco/rumchugger/whatever the GM 
versions were called.  Caddys were cheap, as were linkuns and the big 
crypslers.

> Donald Snook via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> September 8, 2016 at 12:39 PM
> I have liked the Jeep Grand Wagoneer ever since I was kid. Maybe it 
> was because we could never afford one or it could just be because I 
> like the looks of them. I was thinking about trying to find one to 
> buy. The prices on them are outrageous - but that is another subject. 
> One thing I was considering was how bad the gas mileage is for them. 
> They get about 11-12 mpg. With cars routinely getting 20-35 mpg (or 
> more) anything that gets 11 or 12 sounds truly awful. Of course, when 
> gas was $1.25 a gallon people didn't care that much. And gas is still 
> relatively cheap when compared to the price increases in other things 
> (food, housing, medical costs, etc). I started thinking about whether 
> we (as Americans) are really concerned about gas mileage. I have seen 
> lots of anecdotal evidence (and a few actual studies) that show 
> selling a car or trading in a car to get a newer car only to increase 
> gas mileage doesn't really make economic sense when you consider all 
> the factors. Of course, if your primary concern is fuel mileage than 
> it does make sense.
>
> I did the math and my current car (2001 BMW 740iL) costs me 
> approximately $1900 a year in gas (premium unleaded). If I bought a 
> Grand Wagoneer, which would be widely regarded as a gas hog, the cost 
> for the same 15,000 miles of driving would be approximately $2500. So, 
> for about $50 extra a month I can drive a gas guzzler Grand Wagoneer. 
> Therefore, the question is does it really bother me to buy one extra 
> tank of gas per month? Probably not. This surprised me because when I 
> first considered a Wagoneer my immediate reaction was the gas mileage 
> would really hurt and I thought it would be a real burden. But, its 
> really one extra tank a month - who cares. And my own attitude has me 
> a little concerned. Shouldn't I care more?
>
> I suppose if I was driving a car that averaged 30 mpg, then I would be 
> spending about $1000 a year and multiplying my fuel cost by 2.5 times 
> probably would be noticeable and painful.
>
> I don't know if this is just food for thought or my own rambling 
> thoughts that may or may not be relevant.
>
> Don Snook
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>

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Re: [MBZ] How much do we really care about MPG?

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Well, income levels knows no color.  As I wrote that, I was thinking of 
folks who work, but whose income has been eroded by inflation and 
stagnant wages, small farmers, often farmers with medium and large 
farms, people with manufacturing jobs, warehousing jobs, housing 
maintenance and the like.  People with small businesses whose income is 
eroded by gummit taxes and regulations.  Main street USA, outside of the 
big cities and the bankers, lawyers, medicos, Ins agents, gummit 
employees, (school employees) etc who have higher income levels.  The 
ppl I am talking about earn 20-50k a year and have no money for car 
payments.  Around here, most of those folks are pale, but they come in 
all shapes and colors.


Specifically, I know of a boiler operating engineer who has a small farm 
on a gravel road.  They never had anything but a big old boat.  Great 
people, volunteer for a lot of community events, but not on a high 
income level.  He probably makes 40-50k a year, the goobermnt takes half 
or more in taxes, so they are left with a couple thou a month to live on 
and the home/land with its payment, tax and ins cost take most of 
that.   Most of the small farmers I know work in town and drive a big 
old boat to work as long as they could find one.   Now it is more often 
a frod or shovey car as those are pretty cheap when they are old.


For most people in this country that don't buy new cars, the price of 
the car is a bigger matter than the MPG..


For those of us who drive/drove higher than average miles per year, MPG 
is a big factor.   When you can go from 17 to 45-50, with lotsa miles, 
MPG is a big factor.



Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
September 8, 2016 at 5:15 PM
I have an old black friend who was an agitator back in the 60s and 
still is somewhat.  In one discussion he was going on about why black 
people drive old CVs and Cadillacs and such -- because they're 
cheepcheep -- but then have to pay a lot for gas (not so much these 
days, but relatively) since they generally get lower gas mileage than 
newer cars.  So he viewed this as another way that black people cannot 
take part in societal progress, and are penalized for being poor and 
driving cheepcheep old cars.


I tend not to argue with him about things, but just kinda take in his 
views on issues, some of which are quite perspicacious given his 
history.  He is a Korean War veteran, got shot over there at 
Christmas, which always affects his enjoyment of the holiday.  He came 
back home after getting shot and recovering, was trying to get home 
from Columbia SC, wearing his uniform, and a bunch of dumbass crackers 
told him he couldn't ride the bus.  At that time he could not talk 
back to them or they probably would have finished what he almost got 
in Korea.  He waited a couple hours for a later bus and managed to get 
on that after the crackers left on the other one.  This sort of thing, 
among others, informs his views.


--FT



Curley McLain 
September 8, 2016 at 3:09 PM
That is exactly why po' folks who seldom leave the county or say a 30 
mile radius, drove the big ol boats of the 70s and 80s for decades.  
the cheapness of buying the car offset the loss in fuel consumption.   
When we were driving over 60 miles a day, 6-7 days a week, the wabbit 
dissel, and later the Quantum, and Escort Dissels made sense.  I could 
justify the cost of a new escort on fuel savings alone over the 17 MPG 
Plymie Valiant.


A $500 boat nobody wants vs a $5000 car buys a lot of fuel on a modest 
number of  miles/year.  The trick is to find a boat in good shape for 
$500.


Merkun ppl have figgered this out, as most new vehicles sold are 
pickups and SUVs that are NOT miserly.  Back in 1975, you could not 
give away a peecup or a suburban, or even the big 
bronco/rumchugger/whatever the GM versions were called.  Caddys were 
cheap, as were linkuns and the big crypslers.



Donald Snook via Mercedes 
September 8, 2016 at 12:39 PM
I have liked the Jeep Grand Wagoneer ever since I was kid. Maybe it 
was because we could never afford one or it could just be because I 
like the looks of them. I was thinking about trying to find one to 
buy. The prices on them are outrageous - but that is another subject. 
One thing I was considering was how bad the gas mileage is for them. 
They get about 11-12 mpg. With cars routinely getting 20-35 mpg (or 
more) anything that gets 11 or 12 sounds truly awful. Of course, when 
gas was $1.25 a gallon people didn't care that much. And gas is still 
relatively cheap when compared to the price increases in other things 
(food, housing, medical costs, etc). I started thinking about whether 
we (as Americans) are really concerned about gas mileage. I have seen 
lots of anecdotal evidence (and a few actual studies) that show 
selling a car or trading in a car to get a newer car only to increase 
gas mileage doesn't really make economic 

Re: [MBZ] How much do we really care about MPG?

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

I have an old black friend who was an agitator back in the 60s and still 
is somewhat.  In one discussion he was going on about why black people 
drive old CVs and Cadillacs and such -- because they're cheepcheep -- 
but then have to pay a lot for gas (not so much these days, but 
relatively) since they generally get lower gas mileage than newer cars.  
So he viewed this as another way that black people cannot take part in 
societal progress, and are penalized for being poor and driving 
cheepcheep old cars.


I tend not to argue with him about things, but just kinda take in his 
views on issues, some of which are quite perspicacious given his 
history.  He is a Korean War veteran, got shot over there at Christmas, 
which always affects his enjoyment of the holiday.  He came back home 
after getting shot and recovering, was trying to get home from Columbia 
SC, wearing his uniform, and a bunch of dumbass crackers told him he 
couldn't ride the bus.  At that time he could not talk back to them or 
they probably would have finished what he almost got in Korea.  He 
waited a couple hours for a later bus and managed to get on that after 
the crackers left on the other one.  This sort of thing, among others, 
informs his views.


--FT

On 9/8/16 4:09 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:
That is exactly why po' folks who seldom leave the county or say a 30 
mile radius, drove the big ol boats of the 70s and 80s for decades.  
the cheapness of buying the car offset the loss in fuel consumption.   
When we were driving over 60 miles a day, 6-7 days a week, the wabbit 
dissel, and later the Quantum, and Escort Dissels made sense.  I could 
justify the cost of a new escort on fuel savings alone over the 17 MPG 
Plymie Valiant.


A $500 boat nobody wants vs a $5000 car buys a lot of fuel on a modest 
number of  miles/year.  The trick is to find a boat in good shape for 
$500.


Merkun ppl have figgered this out, as most new vehicles sold are 
pickups and SUVs that are NOT miserly.  Back in 1975, you could not 
give away a peecup or a suburban, or even the big 
bronco/rumchugger/whatever the GM versions were called.  Caddys were 
cheap, as were linkuns and the big crypslers. 


--
--FT


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Re: [MBZ] How much do we really care about MPG?

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

If he wins the two big cases he mentioned, his chauffeur will be picking him up 
in his Rolls and driving him out to his bizjet.
Gerry

> You don't drive very much... I average twice your mileage so for me the 
> difference would be more like $100 a month, but actually the change would be 
> from my 50mpg Jetta down so a really massive change. My commute is 59 miles 
> each way which is absurd I know...
> This is why we have more than one vehicle, the Jetta was cheap and having it 
> keeps miles off the Dodge and saves money on fuel. Its also cheaper to 
> maintain a crapbox fwd than a 4wd anything, everything about it is cheaper so 
> it basically pays for itself.
> Not sure if that helps, everybody's situation is different.
> -Curt
> 
>   From: Donald Snook via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
>  To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> Cc: Donald Snook <d...@snooklawllc.com>
>  Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2016 1:39 PM
>  Subject: [MBZ] How much do we really care about MPG?
>
> I have liked the Jeep Grand Wagoneer ever since I was kid.  Maybe it was 
> because we could never afford one or it could just be because I like the 
> looks of them.  I was thinking about trying to find one to buy.  The prices 
> on them are outrageous - but that is another subject.  One thing I was 
> considering was how bad the gas mileage is for them.  They get about 11-12 
> mpg.  With cars routinely getting 20-35 mpg (or more) anything that gets 11 
> or 12 sounds truly awful.  Of course, when gas was $1.25 a gallon people 
> didn't care that much.  And gas is still relatively cheap when compared to 
> the price increases in other things (food, housing, medical costs, etc).  I 
> started thinking about whether we (as Americans) are really concerned about 
> gas mileage.  I have seen lots of anecdotal evidence (and a few actual 
> studies) that show selling a car or trading in a car to get a newer car only 
> to increase gas mileage doesn't really make economic sense when you consider 
> all the factors.  Of course, if your primary concern is fuel mileage than it 
> does make sense.
> 
> I did the math and my current car (2001 BMW 740iL) costs me approximately 
> $1900 a year in gas (premium unleaded). If I bought a Grand Wagoneer, which 
> would be widely regarded as a gas hog, the cost for the same 15,000 miles of 
> driving would be approximately $2500.  So, for about $50 extra a month I can 
> drive a gas guzzler Grand Wagoneer.  Therefore, the question is does it 
> really bother me to buy one extra tank of gas per month?  Probably not.    
> This surprised me because when I first considered a Wagoneer my immediate 
> reaction was the gas mileage would really hurt and I thought it would be a 
> real burden.  But, its really one extra tank a month - who cares.  And my own 
> attitude has me a little concerned.  Shouldn't I care more?
> 
> I suppose if I was driving a car that averaged 30 mpg, then I would be 
> spending about $1000 a year and multiplying my fuel cost by 2.5 times 
> probably would be noticeable and painful.
> 
> I don't know if this is just food for thought or my own rambling thoughts 
> that may or may not be relevant.
> 
> Don Snook
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> 
> 
>
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Re: [MBZ] How much do we really care about MPG?

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Don,

Don't forget to factor in the cost of insurance.  Your thinking is sound -
economics usually trumps environmental concerns (about which there are many
opinions, but in the end it is your $$$ and your life to live).

-
Max
Charleston SC
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Re: [MBZ] How much do we really care about MPG?

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

That is exactly why po' folks who seldom leave the county or say a 30 
mile radius, drove the big ol boats of the 70s and 80s for decades.  the 
cheapness of buying the car offset the loss in fuel consumption.   When 
we were driving over 60 miles a day, 6-7 days a week, the wabbit dissel, 
and later the Quantum, and Escort Dissels made sense.  I could justify 
the cost of a new escort on fuel savings alone over the 17 MPG Plymie 
Valiant.


A $500 boat nobody wants vs a $5000 car buys a lot of fuel on a modest 
number of  miles/year.  The trick is to find a boat in good shape for $500.


Merkun ppl have figgered this out, as most new vehicles sold are pickups 
and SUVs that are NOT miserly.  Back in 1975, you could not give away a 
peecup or a suburban, or even the big bronco/rumchugger/whatever the GM 
versions were called.  Caddys were cheap, as were linkuns and the big 
crypslers.



Donald Snook via Mercedes 
September 8, 2016 at 12:39 PM
I have liked the Jeep Grand Wagoneer ever since I was kid. Maybe it 
was because we could never afford one or it could just be because I 
like the looks of them. I was thinking about trying to find one to 
buy. The prices on them are outrageous - but that is another subject. 
One thing I was considering was how bad the gas mileage is for them. 
They get about 11-12 mpg. With cars routinely getting 20-35 mpg (or 
more) anything that gets 11 or 12 sounds truly awful. Of course, when 
gas was $1.25 a gallon people didn't care that much. And gas is still 
relatively cheap when compared to the price increases in other things 
(food, housing, medical costs, etc). I started thinking about whether 
we (as Americans) are really concerned about gas mileage. I have seen 
lots of anecdotal evidence (and a few actual studies) that show 
selling a car or trading in a car to get a newer car only to increase 
gas mileage doesn't really make economic sense when you consider all 
the factors. Of course, if your primary concern is fuel mileage than 
it does make sense.


I did the math and my current car (2001 BMW 740iL) costs me 
approximately $1900 a year in gas (premium unleaded). If I bought a 
Grand Wagoneer, which would be widely regarded as a gas hog, the cost 
for the same 15,000 miles of driving would be approximately $2500. So, 
for about $50 extra a month I can drive a gas guzzler Grand Wagoneer. 
Therefore, the question is does it really bother me to buy one extra 
tank of gas per month? Probably not. This surprised me because when I 
first considered a Wagoneer my immediate reaction was the gas mileage 
would really hurt and I thought it would be a real burden. But, its 
really one extra tank a month - who cares. And my own attitude has me 
a little concerned. Shouldn't I care more?


I suppose if I was driving a car that averaged 30 mpg, then I would be 
spending about $1000 a year and multiplying my fuel cost by 2.5 times 
probably would be noticeable and painful.


I don't know if this is just food for thought or my own rambling 
thoughts that may or may not be relevant.


Don Snook
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Re: [MBZ] How much do we really care about MPG?

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

I think the last of the Grand Wagoneers was made in 1991.
So, I think it might be a fine hobby vehicle but probably not a good 
daily driver.
If you want something like that to drive every day, then get a newer 
Tahoe or Expedition.


http://wagoneers.com/

John Meister also has an interest in diesel Mercedes and ran a list for 
a time. I do not know if it still exists.


RB



On 08/09/2016 12:39 PM, Donald Snook via Mercedes wrote:

I have liked the Jeep Grand Wagoneer ever since I was kid.  Maybe it was 
because we could never afford one or it could just be because I like the looks 
of them.   I was thinking about trying to find one to buy.  The prices on them 
are outrageous - but that is another subject.  One thing I was considering was 
how bad the gas mileage is for them.  They get about 11-12 mpg.  With cars 
routinely getting 20-35 mpg (or more) anything that gets 11 or 12 sounds truly 
awful.  Of course, when gas was $1.25 a gallon people didn't care that much.  
And gas is still relatively cheap when compared to the price increases in other 
things (food, housing, medical costs, etc).  I started thinking about whether 
we (as Americans) are really concerned about gas mileage.  I have seen lots of 
anecdotal evidence (and a few actual studies) that show selling a car or 
trading in a car to get a newer car only to increase gas mileage doesn't really 
make economic sense when you consider all the factors.  Of cours

e, if your primary concern is fuel mileage than it does make sense.


I did the math and my current car (2001 BMW 740iL) costs me approximately $1900 
a year in gas (premium unleaded). If I bought a Grand Wagoneer, which would be 
widely regarded as a gas hog, the cost for the same 15,000 miles of driving 
would be approximately $2500.  So, for about $50 extra a month I can drive a 
gas guzzler Grand Wagoneer.  Therefore, the question is does it really bother 
me to buy one extra tank of gas per month?   Probably not.This surprised me 
because when I first considered a Wagoneer my immediate reaction was the gas 
mileage would really hurt and I thought it would be a real burden.  But, its 
really one extra tank a month - who cares.  And my own attitude has me a little 
concerned.  Shouldn't I care more?

I suppose if I was driving a car that averaged 30 mpg, then I would be spending 
about $1000 a year and multiplying my fuel cost by 2.5 times probably would be 
noticeable and painful.

I don't know if this is just food for thought or my own rambling thoughts that 
may or may not be relevant.

Don Snook
___




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Re: [MBZ] How much do we really care about MPG?

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

You don't drive very much... I average twice your mileage so for me the 
difference would be more like $100 a month, but actually the change would be 
from my 50mpg Jetta down so a really massive change. My commute is 59 miles 
each way which is absurd I know...
This is why we have more than one vehicle, the Jetta was cheap and having it 
keeps miles off the Dodge and saves money on fuel. Its also cheaper to maintain 
a crapbox fwd than a 4wd anything, everything about it is cheaper so it 
basically pays for itself.
Not sure if that helps, everybody's situation is different.
-Curt

  From: Donald Snook via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
 To: Mercedes Discussion List <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
Cc: Donald Snook <d...@snooklawllc.com>
 Sent: Thursday, September 8, 2016 1:39 PM
 Subject: [MBZ] How much do we really care about MPG?
   
I have liked the Jeep Grand Wagoneer ever since I was kid.  Maybe it was 
because we could never afford one or it could just be because I like the looks 
of them.  I was thinking about trying to find one to buy.  The prices on them 
are outrageous - but that is another subject.  One thing I was considering was 
how bad the gas mileage is for them.  They get about 11-12 mpg.  With cars 
routinely getting 20-35 mpg (or more) anything that gets 11 or 12 sounds truly 
awful.  Of course, when gas was $1.25 a gallon people didn't care that much.  
And gas is still relatively cheap when compared to the price increases in other 
things (food, housing, medical costs, etc).  I started thinking about whether 
we (as Americans) are really concerned about gas mileage.  I have seen lots of 
anecdotal evidence (and a few actual studies) that show selling a car or 
trading in a car to get a newer car only to increase gas mileage doesn't really 
make economic sense when you consider all the factors.  Of course, if your 
primary concern is fuel mileage than it does make sense.

I did the math and my current car (2001 BMW 740iL) costs me approximately $1900 
a year in gas (premium unleaded). If I bought a Grand Wagoneer, which would be 
widely regarded as a gas hog, the cost for the same 15,000 miles of driving 
would be approximately $2500.  So, for about $50 extra a month I can drive a 
gas guzzler Grand Wagoneer.  Therefore, the question is does it really bother 
me to buy one extra tank of gas per month?  Probably not.    This surprised me 
because when I first considered a Wagoneer my immediate reaction was the gas 
mileage would really hurt and I thought it would be a real burden.  But, its 
really one extra tank a month - who cares.  And my own attitude has me a little 
concerned.  Shouldn't I care more?

I suppose if I was driving a car that averaged 30 mpg, then I would be spending 
about $1000 a year and multiplying my fuel cost by 2.5 times probably would be 
noticeable and painful.

I don't know if this is just food for thought or my own rambling thoughts that 
may or may not be relevant.

Don Snook
___
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[MBZ] How much do we really care about MPG?

[Donald Snook via Mercedes]

I have liked the Jeep Grand Wagoneer ever since I was kid.  Maybe it was 
because we could never afford one or it could just be because I like the looks 
of them.   I was thinking about trying to find one to buy.  The prices on them 
are outrageous - but that is another subject.  One thing I was considering was 
how bad the gas mileage is for them.  They get about 11-12 mpg.  With cars 
routinely getting 20-35 mpg (or more) anything that gets 11 or 12 sounds truly 
awful.  Of course, when gas was $1.25 a gallon people didn't care that much.  
And gas is still relatively cheap when compared to the price increases in other 
things (food, housing, medical costs, etc).  I started thinking about whether 
we (as Americans) are really concerned about gas mileage.  I have seen lots of 
anecdotal evidence (and a few actual studies) that show selling a car or 
trading in a car to get a newer car only to increase gas mileage doesn't really 
make economic sense when you consider all the factors.  Of course,
  if your primary concern is fuel mileage than it does make sense.

I did the math and my current car (2001 BMW 740iL) costs me approximately $1900 
a year in gas (premium unleaded). If I bought a Grand Wagoneer, which would be 
widely regarded as a gas hog, the cost for the same 15,000 miles of driving 
would be approximately $2500.  So, for about $50 extra a month I can drive a 
gas guzzler Grand Wagoneer.  Therefore, the question is does it really bother 
me to buy one extra tank of gas per month?   Probably not.This surprised me 
because when I first considered a Wagoneer my immediate reaction was the gas 
mileage would really hurt and I thought it would be a real burden.  But, its 
really one extra tank a month - who cares.  And my own attitude has me a little 
concerned.  Shouldn't I care more?

I suppose if I was driving a car that averaged 30 mpg, then I would be spending 
about $1000 a year and multiplying my fuel cost by 2.5 times probably would be 
noticeable and painful.

I don't know if this is just food for thought or my own rambling thoughts that 
may or may not be relevant.

Don Snook
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

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