Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
I added to my little diatribe on hybrid vehicles, and added a section on REV's. http://userweb.windwireless.net/~jimc/hybrids.html -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
Yeh, what he said, only with air conditioning cause I live in the desert southwest where interior temps get in the 145 F range in minutes [as low as 50F in winter, b] Grant... AZ.. On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 3:42 AM, Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net wrote: I added to my little diatribe on hybrid vehicles, and added a section on REV's. http://userweb.windwireless.**net/~jimc/hybrids.htmlhttp://userweb.windwireless.net/%7Ejimc/hybrids.html -- Jim __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
Written as somebody who has obviously never been in a Prius before... Its a big car that is surprisingly quick, even by modern car standards. As far as I'm concerned the Prius (say it like a brit, PrI-us) isn't a bad car, its the green-washing thats annoying. -Curt Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:00:09 -0700 From: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hybrids Message-ID: CANTuLYhE0gYVi6pkSie=RAFd=fuojxgsb5mqcukhnmptoaa...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 snip Instead, I get a chevy volt or a Prius that barely pulls out of the driveway under it's own power, costs $70,000 in real dollars to own and support. I'm not drinking all this go green coolaid Rant over. Grant... AZ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
I don't understand, its not a good car now that they can't go in the bus lane? I've often thought an electric would be a good option for my wife. She only goes about 40 miles a day most days and that is in 4 separate trips. A charging station at work would solve most longer trip days too. A Zip Car option (which of course we don't have) would complete all possible scenarios. -Curt Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 20:19:50 -0500 From: Gerry Archer arche...@embarqmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hybrids Message-ID: 6E2935D0EF3A4CB2B4BEC1E8A5BCC828@PC466116028214 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Have a friend who bought a Nissan Leaf (all electric) for his wife to drive to work because electrics were allowed in the bus lanes. Everything was fine, great mileage, faster commute trip, no problems until the local authorities barred electrics from the bus lane. Car never made it to work and back after that. Last I heard he and a few other electric car drivers were petitioning the county to let them charge up while at work where county electric vehicles charged up. Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
I haven't spent any time chasing them and they haven't called me. I think the money was probably going to be a problem. Also a massive problem was my wife's business here and our house here... -Curt Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 20:55:09 -0600 From: Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hybrids Message-ID: CALk3cy5exy8Ph+czSkqKSc_L14qm4KUy2x3Q8zB7G3e=88=b...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Curt wrote: The American people have somehow been taught that you can't go anywhere with less than 200hp. I've commuted happily all week at 62hp and my '78 240D turned in a quite respectable 31mpg. No Harpo? mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
An all-electric vehicle would not be feasible for me unless it had a 100 mile usable range at night in the dead of winter. I don't think there are any that meet that yet. Allan On Friday, November 18, 2011 8:21 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: I don't understand, its not a good car now that they can't go in the bus lane? I've often thought an electric would be a good option for my wife. She only goes about 40 miles a day most days and that is in 4 separate trips. A charging station at work would solve most longer trip days too. A Zip Car option (which of course we don't have) would complete all possible scenarios. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
Not to mention her new network has like 43 viewers. Most of them are in nursing homes and can't reach the remote. --R On 11/18/11 11:22 AM, Curt Raymond wrote: I haven't spent any time chasing them and they haven't called me. I think the money was probably going to be a problem. Also a massive problem was my wife's business here and our house here... -Curt Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 20:55:09 -0600 From: Mountain Manmaontin@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hybrids Message-ID: CALk3cy5exy8Ph+czSkqKSc_L14qm4KUy2x3Q8zB7G3e=88=b...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Curt wrote: The American people have somehow been taught that you can't go anywhere with less than 200hp. I've commuted happily all week at 62hp and my '78 240D turned in a quite respectable 31mpg. No Harpo? mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
Lots of talk in the trades about how poorly her network is doing. Of course, when Rosie O'Donnell is one of your foundation shows, your expectations can't be too high. Dan who detests TV in general Sent from my iPhone On Nov 18, 2011, at 11:33 AM, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: Not to mention her new network has like 43 viewers. Most of them are in nursing homes and can't reach the remote. --R On 11/18/11 11:22 AM, Curt Raymond wrote: I haven't spent any time chasing them and they haven't called me. I think the money was probably going to be a problem. Also a massive problem was my wife's business here and our house here... -Curt Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 20:55:09 -0600 From: Mountain Manmaontin@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hybrids Message-ID: CALk3cy5exy8Ph+czSkqKSc_L14qm4KUy2x3Q8zB7G3e=88=b...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Curt wrote: The American people have somehow been taught that you can't go anywhere with less than 200hp. I've commuted happily all week at 62hp and my '78 240D turned in a quite respectable 31mpg. No Harpo? mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
On 18/11/2011 11:08 AM, Dan Penoff wrote: Lots of talk in the trades about how poorly her network is doing. Of course, when Rosie O'Donnell is one of your foundation shows, your expectations can't be too high. Dan who detests TV in general I like good TV but cannot tolerate the commercials so don't watch much. Wife records and fast forwards through junk but I find that disruptive. So, she watches TV and I surf the net. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids - and big truck transmissions
G Mann wrote: That would be 28 Peak HP so you need those 18 gears to keep the little engine exactly in BOTH it's best torque and best Horsepower sweet spot to gain max efficiency to achieve that perfect mileage. And if the only duty of the engine was to run the generator that powers the electric motors it _would_ be running at exactly it's sweet spot. And then, just to pick at nits, *smiles* there is hardly any big trucks on the road with an 18 speed transmission. The 18 speed's primary duty is for off-road service. 9 and 10 speed are the most common. It's not rare to find a 13 speed, and a 15 speed, though unusual, is not unheard of. Since I'm on this rabbit trail already, I'll continue... The RoadRanger type transmissions used in the big trucks today are a 5 speed main gearbox with auxiliary gearing. Using air pressure from the air brake system, there are switches on the shifter that operate solenoids to change the auxiliary gears. It can be a large ratio change (range) or a small ratio change (split). 9-speed = no splits, 5 in low range, 4 in high range 10-speed = no splits, 5 lo, 5 hi 13-speed = 5 lo, 4 hi with splits 15-speed = 5 lo with splits, 4 high 18-speed = 5 low with splits, 4 high with splits -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
Actually I have both been in and driven a Pri`us...even took it on vacation with 4 people and luggage... 900 mi trip.. and yes .. it does preform... however, as you say the green-washing is most annoying and objectionable. The I drive a Pri`us you may kiss my ring because I'm so green, attitude. When and if your Pri`us is 35 yrs old, bring it by... I'll still be driving my MBZ and enjoying it. Previous to this Pri`us there was another, bought new 2 yrs ago.. it already started developing issues so it was traded in for a new 2011 version because the repair vs trade replace cost was nearly a wash. Grant... AZ... On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: Written as somebody who has obviously never been in a Prius before... Its a big car that is surprisingly quick, even by modern car standards. As far as I'm concerned the Prius (say it like a brit, PrI-us) isn't a bad car, its the green-washing thats annoying. -Curt Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:00:09 -0700 From: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hybrids Message-ID: CANTuLYhE0gYVi6pkSie=RAFd=fuojxgsb5mqcukhnmptoaa...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 snip Instead, I get a chevy volt or a Prius that barely pulls out of the driveway under it's own power, costs $70,000 in real dollars to own and support. I'm not drinking all this go green coolaid Rant over. Grant... AZ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids - and big truck transmissions
All good points. The end result, in any case is to place the engine at the ''sweet spot as much as possible, even on the heavy haul big rigs. If running a small engine at speed to run a generator worked, surly someone would be doing it now. Why not? Grant... AZ On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com wrote: G Mann wrote: That would be 28 Peak HP so you need those 18 gears to keep the little engine exactly in BOTH it's best torque and best Horsepower sweet spot to gain max efficiency to achieve that perfect mileage. And if the only duty of the engine was to run the generator that powers the electric motors it _would_ be running at exactly it's sweet spot. And then, just to pick at nits, *smiles* there is hardly any big trucks on the road with an 18 speed transmission. The 18 speed's primary duty is for off-road service. 9 and 10 speed are the most common. It's not rare to find a 13 speed, and a 15 speed, though unusual, is not unheard of. Since I'm on this rabbit trail already, I'll continue... The RoadRanger type transmissions used in the big trucks today are a 5 speed main gearbox with auxiliary gearing. Using air pressure from the air brake system, there are switches on the shifter that operate solenoids to change the auxiliary gears. It can be a large ratio change (range) or a small ratio change (split). 9-speed = no splits, 5 in low range, 4 in high range 10-speed = no splits, 5 lo, 5 hi 13-speed = 5 lo, 4 hi with splits 15-speed = 5 lo with splits, 4 high 18-speed = 5 low with splits, 4 high with splits -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids - and big truck transmissions
G Mann wrote: If running a small engine at speed to run a generator worked, surly someone would be doing it now. Why not? It is being done with 2.5L diesels and metro transit buses, I believe with battery or flywheel storage and regenerative braking. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
The Prius I rode in (only in town) was just fine - except for the glaring lack of clatta-clatta-clatta. On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 10:16 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: Written as somebody who has obviously never been in a Prius before... Its a big car that is surprisingly quick, even by modern car standards. As far as I'm concerned the Prius (say it like a brit, PrI-us) isn't a bad car, its the green-washing thats annoying. -Curt Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:00:09 -0700 From: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hybrids Message-ID: CANTuLYhE0gYVi6pkSie=RAFd=fuojxgsb5mqcukhnmptoaa...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 snip Instead, I get a chevy volt or a Prius that barely pulls out of the driveway under it's own power, costs $70,000 in real dollars to own and support. I'm not drinking all this go green coolaid Rant over. Grant... AZ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don 2001 ML320 1992 300D 2.5T 1990 300D 2.5T 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids - and big truck transmissions
Isn't that the way ships are powered these days? Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of G Mann Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 10:03 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hybrids - and big truck transmissions All good points. The end result, in any case is to place the engine at the ''sweet spot as much as possible, even on the heavy haul big rigs. If running a small engine at speed to run a generator worked, surly someone would be doing it now. Why not? Grant... AZ On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com wrote: G Mann wrote: That would be 28 Peak HP so you need those 18 gears to keep the little engine exactly in BOTH it's best torque and best Horsepower sweet spot to gain max efficiency to achieve that perfect mileage. And if the only duty of the engine was to run the generator that powers the electric motors it _would_ be running at exactly it's sweet spot. And then, just to pick at nits, *smiles* there is hardly any big trucks on the road with an 18 speed transmission. The 18 speed's primary duty is for off-road service. 9 and 10 speed are the most common. It's not rare to find a 13 speed, and a 15 speed, though unusual, is not unheard of. Since I'm on this rabbit trail already, I'll continue... The RoadRanger type transmissions used in the big trucks today are a 5 speed main gearbox with auxiliary gearing. Using air pressure from the air brake system, there are switches on the shifter that operate solenoids to change the auxiliary gears. It can be a large ratio change (range) or a small ratio change (split). 9-speed = no splits, 5 in low range, 4 in high range 10-speed = no splits, 5 lo, 5 hi 13-speed = 5 lo, 4 hi with splits 15-speed = 5 lo with splits, 4 high 18-speed = 5 low with splits, 4 high with splits -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
I have vague memories of TV, not many are fond. We don't miss it. On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: On 18/11/2011 11:08 AM, Dan Penoff wrote: Lots of talk in the trades about how poorly her network is doing. Of course, when Rosie O'Donnell is one of your foundation shows, your expectations can't be too high. Dan who detests TV in general I like good TV but cannot tolerate the commercials so don't watch much. Wife records and fast forwards through junk but I find that disruptive. So, she watches TV and I surf the net. Randy __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don 2001 ML320 1992 300D 2.5T 1990 300D 2.5T 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids - and big truck transmissions
Locomotives have been doing it for a long time -- On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 12:02 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote: All good points. The end result, in any case is to place the engine at the ''sweet spot as much as possible, even on the heavy haul big rigs. If running a small engine at speed to run a generator worked, surly someone would be doing it now. Why not? Grant... AZ On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com wrote: G Mann wrote: That would be 28 Peak HP so you need those 18 gears to keep the little engine exactly in BOTH it's best torque and best Horsepower sweet spot to gain max efficiency to achieve that perfect mileage. And if the only duty of the engine was to run the generator that powers the electric motors it _would_ be running at exactly it's sweet spot. And then, just to pick at nits, *smiles* there is hardly any big trucks on the road with an 18 speed transmission. The 18 speed's primary duty is for off-road service. 9 and 10 speed are the most common. It's not rare to find a 13 speed, and a 15 speed, though unusual, is not unheard of. Since I'm on this rabbit trail already, I'll continue... The RoadRanger type transmissions used in the big trucks today are a 5 speed main gearbox with auxiliary gearing. Using air pressure from the air brake system, there are switches on the shifter that operate solenoids to change the auxiliary gears. It can be a large ratio change (range) or a small ratio change (split). 9-speed = no splits, 5 in low range, 4 in high range 10-speed = no splits, 5 lo, 5 hi 13-speed = 5 lo, 4 hi with splits 15-speed = 5 lo with splits, 4 high 18-speed = 5 low with splits, 4 high with splits -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don 2001 ML320 1992 300D 2.5T 1990 300D 2.5T 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids - and big truck transmissions
Just so happens I have experience with the hybrid bus program... Yes, it is being done.. but not on a large scale, and it is only being done because of HUGE government cash being pumped into the program to support it. If it was a real market sale.. they would NEVER be put in service. As for the ships.. yes .. again... also the system used on Mining Haul Trucks [the 200 tonne per load kind].. both for the same reason... cheaper than trying to use gearboxes and transmissions. Not because it is green or more fuel efficient. There is some promising work being done on IVT.. or Infinitely Variable Transmissions.. the engine always runs in the sweet spot the foot throttle coupled with a load computer on the contact wheels, actually runs the transmission to select the speed you want from the available power... shows promise...some concept test mules have shown 90+ mpg but not here yet. Storage battery hybrids are an engineering black hole.. batteries are heavy and weigh the same charged or discharged.. .. as charge goes down, work energy available becomes less, relative load increases [ less HP avail / relative to load] ,, the harder you try to out engineer that vortex the faster you spin into darkness. Give me a blank check and 100 years and I will commit to putting I'm still working on it on your headstone. Grant... AZ On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 11:08 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: G Mann wrote: If running a small engine at speed to run a generator worked, surly someone would be doing it now. Why not? It is being done with 2.5L diesels and metro transit buses, I believe with battery or flywheel storage and regenerative braking. Mitch. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids - and big truck transmissions
Or start a green solar company. The local bus line is looking at hybrid buses, I think they use flywheels and batteries and various other things along with maybe a CNG diesel or IC something. Anyway the cost is 4x a regular diesel bus, but a lot of people are all gaga over the possibility of spending huge amounts of money on a few of them. Oh, and maintenance costs are higher too. I think the newer diesels are actually pretty clean if they are maintained, but whatever... --R On 11/18/11 3:16 PM, G Mann wrote: Give me a blank check and 100 years and I will commit to putting I'm still working on it on your headstone. Grant... AZ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids - and big truck transmissions
G Mann wrote: All good points. The end result, in any case is to place the engine at the ''sweet spot as much as possible, even on the heavy haul big rigs. If running a small engine at speed to run a generator worked, surly someone would be doing it now. Why not? Well, I don't know. Maybe 'cause I'm too busy. *grin* Or - maybe because it's more politics and marketing than engineering that's driving the green market. Or it's one of those We don't want results, we want research money issues. All that said, there is a limit to the crude oil that can be extracted from the earth's crust. I think it only prudent to look for, and develop, alternatives. It's really not too hard to find oil to transesterfy into diesel - oil that can come from poultry processing, algae, etc. That is part of why I think diesel cycle engine is such a good idea. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids - and big truck transmissions
Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net writes: The local bus line is looking at hybrid buses They're running a few here. I've never seen any numbers published comparing fuel savings to the extra initial cost and whatever extra maintenance they might require. I can see the theory of regenerative braking making some sense on urban busses that are stopping and starting almost every block. I don't know how well it works in practice. Also imagine a flywheel storing the energy of bringing a bus to a stop from 30mph. I wouldn't want to be nearby if that thing ever broke apart. Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
From: Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu An all-electric vehicle would not be feasible for me unless it had a 100 mile usable range at night in the dead of winter. I don't think there are any that meet that yet. Allan On Friday, November 18, 2011 8:21 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: I don't understand, its not a good car now that they can't go in the bus lane? I've often thought an electric would be a good option for my wife. She only goes about 40 miles a day most days and that is in 4 separate trips. A charging station at work would solve most longer trip days too. A Zip Car option (which of course we don't have) would complete all possible scenarios. Nissan Leaf was factory rated at about 100 miles per charge and friend bought his on that basis. In practice, Nissan Leaf only got about 70 miles per charge. This was barely enough driving to work and back in the bus lane. This was in the Frisco Bay area and traffic in the other lanes was stop and go all the way. The extra energy needed for repeated accellerations may have been the reason the charge did not suffice when driving in the regular lanes in spite of regenerative braking. The Leaf would probably do well at 40 miles per day. Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
The 'correct' hybrid has a diesel engine sized to move the vehicle down the road at highway speed, fully loaded and with a few ponies to spare, and sufficient battery capacity to handle normal acceleration and regenerative braking needs. And, obviously, sufficient electric motorage to give the desired driveability characteristics. Not REV, not a big diesel with a little electric motor. Not a gasser of any sort. The batteries are the most evil part of a hybrid, you want to minimize them. Average drive power is all fuel, all peak needs met electrically. HVAC completely traditional, driven off the diesel. Diesel can stop at lights, if the battery charge is sufficient and you have a coolant circulation pump ala MB to heat during stops from residual engine heat. Motor will start if cabin starts to cool. (Webasto-style fueled heater even better, but is a bit on the expensive side. Will forgo. Must use diesel waste heat rather than fuel when available, anyway.) I'm thinking a 20HP diesel with maybe 100HP of electric motor. The diesel needn't be a turbo, but if it's more efficient on the highway with one then it should have it. Battery pack relatively small, would only take you a few miles on its own. _That_, in AWD sedan form, I might buy. Provided it had a traditional fail-safe key switch and no stupid shrubbery on the dash. And got an honest 60 MPG. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
I'll take 2. When do we start building? Wilton - Original Message - From: Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 9:48 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hybrids The 'correct' hybrid has a diesel engine sized to move the vehicle down the road at highway speed, fully loaded and with a few ponies to spare, and sufficient battery capacity to handle normal acceleration and regenerative braking needs. And, obviously, sufficient electric motorage to give the desired driveability characteristics. Not REV, not a big diesel with a little electric motor. Not a gasser of any sort. The batteries are the most evil part of a hybrid, you want to minimize them. Average drive power is all fuel, all peak needs met electrically. HVAC completely traditional, driven off the diesel. Diesel can stop at lights, if the battery charge is sufficient and you have a coolant circulation pump ala MB to heat during stops from residual engine heat. Motor will start if cabin starts to cool. (Webasto-style fueled heater even better, but is a bit on the expensive side. Will forgo. Must use diesel waste heat rather than fuel when available, anyway.) I'm thinking a 20HP diesel with maybe 100HP of electric motor. The diesel needn't be a turbo, but if it's more efficient on the highway with one then it should have it. Battery pack relatively small, would only take you a few miles on its own. _That_, in AWD sedan form, I might buy. Provided it had a traditional fail-safe key switch and no stupid shrubbery on the dash. And got an honest 60 MPG. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
Jim Cathey wrote: I'm thinking a 20HP diesel with maybe 100HP of electric motor. The diesel needn't be a turbo, but if it's more efficient on the highway with one then it should have it. Battery pack relatively small, would only take you a few miles on its own. I was thinking maybe 15-17hp Kubota 3 cyl with turbo or other power mod. Lots of beat up garden tractors with perfectly good little Kubota engines under the hood, and now's the season to buy one. I think it would be an awesome way to power a rural mail carrier's vehicle. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
Jim Cathey wrote: The 'correct' hybrid has a diesel engine sized to move the vehicle down the road at highway speed, fully loaded and with a few ponies to spare, and sufficient battery capacity to handle normal acceleration and regenerative braking needs. And, obviously, sufficient electric motorage to give the desired driveability characteristics. Ding! Ding! Ding! _That_ is a winner. From the view of an engineer trying to solve the stated problem. I've been muttering about it for years now. Too bad it's the marketing and politicing that actually determines what gets built. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
I read a rather lengthy article about the Benz engineers who analyzed a diesel hybrid and determined that the difference in the cost of the diesel engine, performance, etc. would not be as economical as a gasser. Damn physics. I think I posted it at one point. --R On 11/17/11 3:21 PM, Fmiser wrote: Jim Cathey wrote: The 'correct' hybrid has a diesel engine sized to move the vehicle down the road at highway speed, fully loaded and with a few ponies to spare, and sufficient battery capacity to handle normal acceleration and regenerative braking needs. And, obviously, sufficient electric motorage to give the desired driveability characteristics. Ding! Ding! Ding! _That_ is a winner. From the view of an engineer trying to solve the stated problem. I've been muttering about it for years now. Too bad it's the marketing and politicing that actually determines what gets built. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
'My thought, too. Wilton - Original Message - From: Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 3:21 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hybrids Jim Cathey wrote: The 'correct' hybrid has a diesel engine sized to move the vehicle down the road at highway speed, fully loaded and with a few ponies to spare, and sufficient battery capacity to handle normal acceleration and regenerative braking needs. And, obviously, sufficient electric motorage to give the desired driveability characteristics. Ding! Ding! Ding! _That_ is a winner. From the view of an engineer trying to solve the stated problem. I've been muttering about it for years now. Too bad it's the marketing and politicing that actually determines what gets built. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
If you are going up a long grade such as Donner Pass eastbound or the Grapevine (Tejon Pass) in California, could you make it to the top with a 20 hp diesel, a relatively small battery, and a full load? Gerry From: Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net The 'correct' hybrid has a diesel engine sized to move the vehicle down the road at highway speed, fully loaded and with a few ponies to spare, and sufficient battery capacity to handle normal acceleration and regenerative braking needs. And, obviously, sufficient electric motorage to give the desired driveability characteristics. Not REV, not a big diesel with a little electric motor. Not a gasser of any sort. The batteries are the most evil part of a hybrid, you want to minimize them. Average drive power is all fuel, all peak needs met electrically. HVAC completely traditional, driven off the diesel. Diesel can stop at lights, if the battery charge is sufficient and you have a coolant circulation pump ala MB to heat during stops from residual engine heat. Motor will start if cabin starts to cool. (Webasto-style fueled heater even better, but is a bit on the expensive side. Will forgo. Must use diesel waste heat rather than fuel when available, anyway.) I'm thinking a 20HP diesel with maybe 100HP of electric motor. The diesel needn't be a turbo, but if it's more efficient on the highway with one then it should have it. Battery pack relatively small, would only take you a few miles on its own. _That_, in AWD sedan form, I might buy. Provided it had a traditional fail-safe key switch and no stupid shrubbery on the dash. And got an honest 60 MPG. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
Cajon? Between San Berdu (Bernardino) and Victorville? 'Reminds me: I was going down Cajon Pass on a rainy, very foggy early Sat. afternoon in about late Jan '78, when suddenly coming toward me in the opposite, up-hill direction with an altitude above ground of about 50 feet, at most, was a WW II fighter aircraft, maybe Wildcat, Hellcat, etc. Most of what I remember seeing was prop; lotsa noise; gone in a flash. All I could do was duck; 'musta helped; I kept going, and he did, too. Wilton - Original Message - From: Gerry Archer arche...@embarqmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 6:00 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hybrids If you are going up a long grade such as Donner Pass eastbound or the Grapevine (Tejon Pass) in California, could you make it to the top with a 20 hp diesel, a relatively small battery, and a full load? Gerry From: Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net The 'correct' hybrid has a diesel engine sized to move the vehicle down the road at highway speed, fully loaded and with a few ponies to spare, and sufficient battery capacity to handle normal acceleration and regenerative braking needs. And, obviously, sufficient electric motorage to give the desired driveability characteristics. Not REV, not a big diesel with a little electric motor. Not a gasser of any sort. The batteries are the most evil part of a hybrid, you want to minimize them. Average drive power is all fuel, all peak needs met electrically. HVAC completely traditional, driven off the diesel. Diesel can stop at lights, if the battery charge is sufficient and you have a coolant circulation pump ala MB to heat during stops from residual engine heat. Motor will start if cabin starts to cool. (Webasto-style fueled heater even better, but is a bit on the expensive side. Will forgo. Must use diesel waste heat rather than fuel when available, anyway.) I'm thinking a 20HP diesel with maybe 100HP of electric motor. The diesel needn't be a turbo, but if it's more efficient on the highway with one then it should have it. Battery pack relatively small, would only take you a few miles on its own. _That_, in AWD sedan form, I might buy. Provided it had a traditional fail-safe key switch and no stupid shrubbery on the dash. And got an honest 60 MPG. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
Gerry Archer arche...@embarqmail.com writes: If you are going up a long grade such as Donner Pass eastbound or the Grapevine (Tejon Pass) in California, could you make it to the top with a 20 hp diesel, a relatively small battery, and a full load? Only very slowly. This is the problem with all super-economy vehicles, whether they are hybrids, pure EVs, whatever. They fail in the edge cases. But for a lot of folks that's a rare enough exception that they won't worry about it. I wouldn't. Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
Gerry Archer wrote: If you are going up a long grade such as Donner Pass eastbound or the Grapevine (Tejon Pass) in California, could you make it to the top with a 20 hp diesel, a relatively small battery, and a full load? About 1/3 as fast as you could with a 60hp engine. That is where 'simplicate and add lightness' is an important engineering goal. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
What is the horsepower rating for the early VW Jetta diesels - non turbo? One of my former neighbors was a VW Jetta lover. He had 2 or 3 of them when he lived accross the lane. A very frugal fellow. An accountant by profession and German by background so the Jetta was an obvious response. One of them was a normally aspirated Jetta with about 250K miles on it if my memory serves reasonably accurate. This was a number of years back so I might be a bit out but the general story is accurate. They drove it from Winnipeg to Vancouver Island, through the Rockies, fully loaded with he, his wife, at least 2 small children and associated baggage and pulling a fold out camper trailer. He wanted a newer and better camper but could not find another that was as small or light weight as the one he had. The canvas was getting bad on it but the car could not pull anything heavier in his opinion. He said that he was down to about 40 kph by the time he crested hills but it kept on going. Good thing they were not run down from behind. Randy On 17/11/2011 5:00 PM, Gerry Archer wrote: If you are going up a long grade such as Donner Pass eastbound or the Grapevine (Tejon Pass) in California, could you make it to the top with a 20 hp diesel, a relatively small battery, and a full load? Gerry From: Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net The 'correct' hybrid has a diesel engine sized to move the vehicle down the road at highway speed, fully loaded and with a few ponies to spare, and sufficient battery capacity to handle normal acceleration and regenerative braking needs. And, obviously, sufficient electric motorage to give the desired driveability characteristics. Not REV, not a big diesel with a little electric motor. Not a gasser of any sort. The batteries are the most evil part of a hybrid, you want to minimize them. Average drive power is all fuel, all peak needs met electrically. HVAC completely traditional, driven off the diesel. Diesel can stop at lights, if the battery charge is sufficient and you have a coolant circulation pump ala MB to heat during stops from residual engine heat. Motor will start if cabin starts to cool. (Webasto-style fueled heater even better, but is a bit on the expensive side. Will forgo. Must use diesel waste heat rather than fuel when available, anyway.) I'm thinking a 20HP diesel with maybe 100HP of electric motor. The diesel needn't be a turbo, but if it's more efficient on the highway with one then it should have it. Battery pack relatively small, would only take you a few miles on its own. _That_, in AWD sedan form, I might buy. Provided it had a traditional fail-safe key switch and no stupid shrubbery on the dash. And got an honest 60 MPG. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca writes: What is the horsepower rating for the early VW Jetta diesels - non turbo? 52? 48? Something in that neighborhood. He said that he was down to about 40 kph by the time he crested hills but it kept on going. Just think, they also put that motor in a Vanagon. Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
I object, to the whole load of echotrash that is pushed down or up our respective orifices. The entire hybrid industry is driven by government subsidy and self serving regulation. NO hybrid vehicle, if you truly look at the support industries that are necessary to produce and maintain it, is non pollution. Further, if you add up all the hybrid cars in the entire world today or even add in every one produced and sold in the next 10 years, the total carbon footprint saved would not offset ONE trip of a fully loaded cargo container ship from China to USA and return. All the while we are doing all the feel good cause we are green and spending billions to do it, we are shipping jobs and industries to third world countries that don't give a damn about a little chemical spill or exhaust emissions that literally choke you because it's easier and more profitable to do that than it is to go green to meet some asinine EPA regulation or the EU equivalent. If we truly want to go green, stop cutting down trees and start planting more crops to breathe in the CO2 and scrub the atmosphere. If I go to Europe and drive a car, most likely it's a diesel and most likely it gets over 40 mpg... yet I can't buy that same care in USA? Instead, I get a chevy volt or a Prius that barely pulls out of the driveway under it's own power, costs $70,000 in real dollars to own and support. I'm not drinking all this go green coolaid Rant over. Grant... AZ On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:00 PM, Gerry Archer arche...@embarqmail.comwrote: If you are going up a long grade such as Donner Pass eastbound or the Grapevine (Tejon Pass) in California, could you make it to the top with a 20 hp diesel, a relatively small battery, and a full load? Gerry From: Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net The 'correct' hybrid has a diesel engine sized to move the vehicle down the road at highway speed, fully loaded and with a few ponies to spare, and sufficient battery capacity to handle normal acceleration and regenerative braking needs. And, obviously, sufficient electric motorage to give the desired driveability characteristics. Not REV, not a big diesel with a little electric motor. Not a gasser of any sort. The batteries are the most evil part of a hybrid, you want to minimize them. Average drive power is all fuel, all peak needs met electrically. HVAC completely traditional, driven off the diesel. Diesel can stop at lights, if the battery charge is sufficient and you have a coolant circulation pump ala MB to heat during stops from residual engine heat. Motor will start if cabin starts to cool. (Webasto-style fueled heater even better, but is a bit on the expensive side. Will forgo. Must use diesel waste heat rather than fuel when available, anyway.) I'm thinking a 20HP diesel with maybe 100HP of electric motor. The diesel needn't be a turbo, but if it's more efficient on the highway with one then it should have it. Battery pack relatively small, would only take you a few miles on its own. _That_, in AWD sedan form, I might buy. Provided it had a traditional fail-safe key switch and no stupid shrubbery on the dash. And got an honest 60 MPG. -- Jim __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
I Agree with total rant below. If I ride my bike all summer around town instead of driving for short trips I'll do more then any hybrid. This reminds me of something that happened at church a couple years ago. Everyone was chatting after service and wanted what we could do as a faith community to promote love for mother earth. I suggested everyone who could resonably walk to church walk to church when the weather allowed. People looked at me like I had two heads. Some one else wanted to plant a garden. we ended up plantign a flower garden. Peter On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 7:00 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote: I object, to the whole load of echotrash that is pushed down or up our respective orifices. The entire hybrid industry is driven by government subsidy and self serving regulation. NO hybrid vehicle, if you truly look at the support industries that are necessary to produce and maintain it, is non pollution. Further, if you add up all the hybrid cars in the entire world today or even add in every one produced and sold in the next 10 years, the total carbon footprint saved would not offset ONE trip of a fully loaded cargo container ship from China to USA and return. All the while we are doing all the feel good cause we are green and spending billions to do it, we are shipping jobs and industries to third world countries that don't give a damn about a little chemical spill or exhaust emissions that literally choke you because it's easier and more profitable to do that than it is to go green to meet some asinine EPA regulation or the EU equivalent. If we truly want to go green, stop cutting down trees and start planting more crops to breathe in the CO2 and scrub the atmosphere. If I go to Europe and drive a car, most likely it's a diesel and most likely it gets over 40 mpg... yet I can't buy that same care in USA? Instead, I get a chevy volt or a Prius that barely pulls out of the driveway under it's own power, costs $70,000 in real dollars to own and support. I'm not drinking all this go green coolaid Rant over. Grant... AZ On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:00 PM, Gerry Archer arche...@embarqmail.com wrote: If you are going up a long grade such as Donner Pass eastbound or the Grapevine (Tejon Pass) in California, could you make it to the top with a 20 hp diesel, a relatively small battery, and a full load? Gerry From: Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net The 'correct' hybrid has a diesel engine sized to move the vehicle down the road at highway speed, fully loaded and with a few ponies to spare, and sufficient battery capacity to handle normal acceleration and regenerative braking needs. And, obviously, sufficient electric motorage to give the desired driveability characteristics. Not REV, not a big diesel with a little electric motor. Not a gasser of any sort. The batteries are the most evil part of a hybrid, you want to minimize them. Average drive power is all fuel, all peak needs met electrically. HVAC completely traditional, driven off the diesel. Diesel can stop at lights, if the battery charge is sufficient and you have a coolant circulation pump ala MB to heat during stops from residual engine heat. Motor will start if cabin starts to cool. (Webasto-style fueled heater even better, but is a bit on the expensive side. Will forgo. Must use diesel waste heat rather than fuel when available, anyway.) I'm thinking a 20HP diesel with maybe 100HP of electric motor. The diesel needn't be a turbo, but if it's more efficient on the highway with one then it should have it. Battery pack relatively small, would only take you a few miles on its own. _That_, in AWD sedan form, I might buy. Provided it had a traditional fail-safe key switch and no stupid shrubbery on the dash. And got an honest 60 MPG. -- Jim __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/ http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.com http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
Depends on how fast you want your top speed to be and how many gears the car has. The American people have somehow been taught that you can't go anywhere with less than 200hp. I've commuted happily all week at 62hp and my '78 240D turned in a quite respectable 31mpg. -Curt Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 18:00:34 -0500 From: Gerry Archer arche...@embarqmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hybrids Message-ID: A97FEDF38FE249FB8D102A504BB7336A@PC466116028214 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response If you are going up a long grade such as Donner Pass eastbound or the Grapevine (Tejon Pass) in California, could you make it to the top with a 20 hp diesel, a relatively small battery, and a full load? Gerry ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
Have a friend who bought a Nissan Leaf (all electric) for his wife to drive to work because electrics were allowed in the bus lanes. Everything was fine, great mileage, faster commute trip, no problems until the local authorities barred electrics from the bus lane. Car never made it to work and back after that. Last I heard he and a few other electric car drivers were petitioning the county to let them charge up while at work where county electric vehicles charged up. Gerry I object, to the whole load of echotrash that is pushed down or up our respective orifices. The entire hybrid industry is driven by government subsidy and self serving regulation. NO hybrid vehicle, if you truly look at the support industries that are necessary to produce and maintain it, is non pollution. Further, if you add up all the hybrid cars in the entire world today or even add in every one produced and sold in the next 10 years, the total carbon footprint saved would not offset ONE trip of a fully loaded cargo container ship from China to USA and return. All the while we are doing all the feel good cause we are green and spending billions to do it, we are shipping jobs and industries to third world countries that don't give a damn about a little chemical spill or exhaust emissions that literally choke you because it's easier and more profitable to do that than it is to go green to meet some asinine EPA regulation or the EU equivalent. If we truly want to go green, stop cutting down trees and start planting more crops to breathe in the CO2 and scrub the atmosphere. If I go to Europe and drive a car, most likely it's a diesel and most likely it gets over 40 mpg... yet I can't buy that same care in USA? Instead, I get a chevy volt or a Prius that barely pulls out of the driveway under it's own power, costs $70,000 in real dollars to own and support. I'm not drinking all this go green coolaid Rant over. Grant... AZ On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 4:00 PM, Gerry Archer arche...@embarqmail.comwrote: If you are going up a long grade such as Donner Pass eastbound or the Grapevine (Tejon Pass) in California, could you make it to the top with a 20 hp diesel, a relatively small battery, and a full load? Gerry From: Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net The 'correct' hybrid has a diesel engine sized to move the vehicle down the road at highway speed, fully loaded and with a few ponies to spare, and sufficient battery capacity to handle normal acceleration and regenerative braking needs. And, obviously, sufficient electric motorage to give the desired driveability characteristics. Not REV, not a big diesel with a little electric motor. Not a gasser of any sort. The batteries are the most evil part of a hybrid, you want to minimize them. Average drive power is all fuel, all peak needs met electrically. HVAC completely traditional, driven off the diesel. Diesel can stop at lights, if the battery charge is sufficient and you have a coolant circulation pump ala MB to heat during stops from residual engine heat. Motor will start if cabin starts to cool. (Webasto-style fueled heater even better, but is a bit on the expensive side. Will forgo. Must use diesel waste heat rather than fuel when available, anyway.) I'm thinking a 20HP diesel with maybe 100HP of electric motor. The diesel needn't be a turbo, but if it's more efficient on the highway with one then it should have it. Battery pack relatively small, would only take you a few miles on its own. _That_, in AWD sedan form, I might buy. Provided it had a traditional fail-safe key switch and no stupid shrubbery on the dash. And got an honest 60 MPG. -- Jim __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1411 / Virus Database: 2092/4022 - Release Date: 11/17/11 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
Alles. My '81 diesel Rabbit and Dasher (wagon) had a whopping great 52 hp. Luke's '79 pickup had all of 48, unless it ran away, then who knows. Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel preferred On 11/17/2011 7:40 PM, Allan Streib wrote: Randy Bennellrbenn...@bennell.ca writes: What is the horsepower rating for the early VW Jetta diesels - non turbo? 52? 48? Something in that neighborhood. He said that he was down to about 40 kph by the time he crested hills but it kept on going. Just think, they also put that motor in a Vanagon. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
Benz engineers who analyzed a diesel hybrid and determined that the difference in the cost of the diesel engine, performance, etc. would not be as economical as a gasser. They're probably right. But there are other issues, such as longevity, ease of maintenance, lack of gas that goes bad when sitting, HV electrics that break down over time, etc. Also preference for exhaust odor (I hate gas, love diesel.) And if you have outside-the-box considerations, such as what happens if you're trapped in a drift for a day or two... That diesel'll idle for days on a full tank. Screw the payback period, I'll survive and in comfort! -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
Curt wrote: The American people have somehow been taught that you can't go anywhere with less than 200hp. I've commuted happily all week at 62hp and my '78 240D turned in a quite respectable 31mpg. No Harpo? mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids
That is funny, I betcha you could have cut the air with a knife until the gardening proposal saved you. Priorities. Hendrik who should do more walking and less consuming of the malt beverages Peter Hertzing wrote: I Agree with total rant below. If I ride my bike all summer around town instead of driving for short trips I'll do more then any hybrid. This reminds me of something that happened at church a couple years ago. Everyone was chatting after service and wanted what we could do as a faith community to promote love for mother earth. I suggested everyone who could resonably walk to church walk to church when the weather allowed. People looked at me like I had two heads. Some one else wanted to plant a garden. we ended up plantign a flower garden. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
