Re: [MBZ] Hybrids - and big truck transmissions
G Mann wrote: That would be 28 Peak HP so you need those 18 gears to keep the little engine exactly in BOTH it's best torque and best Horsepower sweet spot to gain max efficiency to achieve that perfect mileage. And if the only duty of the engine was to run the generator that powers the electric motors it _would_ be running at exactly it's sweet spot. And then, just to pick at nits, *smiles* there is hardly any big trucks on the road with an 18 speed transmission. The 18 speed's primary duty is for off-road service. 9 and 10 speed are the most common. It's not rare to find a 13 speed, and a 15 speed, though unusual, is not unheard of. Since I'm on this rabbit trail already, I'll continue... The RoadRanger type transmissions used in the big trucks today are a 5 speed main gearbox with auxiliary gearing. Using air pressure from the air brake system, there are switches on the shifter that operate solenoids to change the auxiliary gears. It can be a large ratio change (range) or a small ratio change (split). 9-speed = no splits, 5 in low range, 4 in high range 10-speed = no splits, 5 lo, 5 hi 13-speed = 5 lo, 4 hi with splits 15-speed = 5 lo with splits, 4 high 18-speed = 5 low with splits, 4 high with splits -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids - and big truck transmissions
All good points. The end result, in any case is to place the engine at the ''sweet spot as much as possible, even on the heavy haul big rigs. If running a small engine at speed to run a generator worked, surly someone would be doing it now. Why not? Grant... AZ On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com wrote: G Mann wrote: That would be 28 Peak HP so you need those 18 gears to keep the little engine exactly in BOTH it's best torque and best Horsepower sweet spot to gain max efficiency to achieve that perfect mileage. And if the only duty of the engine was to run the generator that powers the electric motors it _would_ be running at exactly it's sweet spot. And then, just to pick at nits, *smiles* there is hardly any big trucks on the road with an 18 speed transmission. The 18 speed's primary duty is for off-road service. 9 and 10 speed are the most common. It's not rare to find a 13 speed, and a 15 speed, though unusual, is not unheard of. Since I'm on this rabbit trail already, I'll continue... The RoadRanger type transmissions used in the big trucks today are a 5 speed main gearbox with auxiliary gearing. Using air pressure from the air brake system, there are switches on the shifter that operate solenoids to change the auxiliary gears. It can be a large ratio change (range) or a small ratio change (split). 9-speed = no splits, 5 in low range, 4 in high range 10-speed = no splits, 5 lo, 5 hi 13-speed = 5 lo, 4 hi with splits 15-speed = 5 lo with splits, 4 high 18-speed = 5 low with splits, 4 high with splits -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids - and big truck transmissions
G Mann wrote: If running a small engine at speed to run a generator worked, surly someone would be doing it now. Why not? It is being done with 2.5L diesels and metro transit buses, I believe with battery or flywheel storage and regenerative braking. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids - and big truck transmissions
Isn't that the way ships are powered these days? Greg -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of G Mann Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 10:03 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hybrids - and big truck transmissions All good points. The end result, in any case is to place the engine at the ''sweet spot as much as possible, even on the heavy haul big rigs. If running a small engine at speed to run a generator worked, surly someone would be doing it now. Why not? Grant... AZ On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com wrote: G Mann wrote: That would be 28 Peak HP so you need those 18 gears to keep the little engine exactly in BOTH it's best torque and best Horsepower sweet spot to gain max efficiency to achieve that perfect mileage. And if the only duty of the engine was to run the generator that powers the electric motors it _would_ be running at exactly it's sweet spot. And then, just to pick at nits, *smiles* there is hardly any big trucks on the road with an 18 speed transmission. The 18 speed's primary duty is for off-road service. 9 and 10 speed are the most common. It's not rare to find a 13 speed, and a 15 speed, though unusual, is not unheard of. Since I'm on this rabbit trail already, I'll continue... The RoadRanger type transmissions used in the big trucks today are a 5 speed main gearbox with auxiliary gearing. Using air pressure from the air brake system, there are switches on the shifter that operate solenoids to change the auxiliary gears. It can be a large ratio change (range) or a small ratio change (split). 9-speed = no splits, 5 in low range, 4 in high range 10-speed = no splits, 5 lo, 5 hi 13-speed = 5 lo, 4 hi with splits 15-speed = 5 lo with splits, 4 high 18-speed = 5 low with splits, 4 high with splits -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids - and big truck transmissions
Locomotives have been doing it for a long time -- On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 12:02 PM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote: All good points. The end result, in any case is to place the engine at the ''sweet spot as much as possible, even on the heavy haul big rigs. If running a small engine at speed to run a generator worked, surly someone would be doing it now. Why not? Grant... AZ On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com wrote: G Mann wrote: That would be 28 Peak HP so you need those 18 gears to keep the little engine exactly in BOTH it's best torque and best Horsepower sweet spot to gain max efficiency to achieve that perfect mileage. And if the only duty of the engine was to run the generator that powers the electric motors it _would_ be running at exactly it's sweet spot. And then, just to pick at nits, *smiles* there is hardly any big trucks on the road with an 18 speed transmission. The 18 speed's primary duty is for off-road service. 9 and 10 speed are the most common. It's not rare to find a 13 speed, and a 15 speed, though unusual, is not unheard of. Since I'm on this rabbit trail already, I'll continue... The RoadRanger type transmissions used in the big trucks today are a 5 speed main gearbox with auxiliary gearing. Using air pressure from the air brake system, there are switches on the shifter that operate solenoids to change the auxiliary gears. It can be a large ratio change (range) or a small ratio change (split). 9-speed = no splits, 5 in low range, 4 in high range 10-speed = no splits, 5 lo, 5 hi 13-speed = 5 lo, 4 hi with splits 15-speed = 5 lo with splits, 4 high 18-speed = 5 low with splits, 4 high with splits -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- OK Don 2001 ML320 1992 300D 2.5T 1990 300D 2.5T 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids - and big truck transmissions
Just so happens I have experience with the hybrid bus program... Yes, it is being done.. but not on a large scale, and it is only being done because of HUGE government cash being pumped into the program to support it. If it was a real market sale.. they would NEVER be put in service. As for the ships.. yes .. again... also the system used on Mining Haul Trucks [the 200 tonne per load kind].. both for the same reason... cheaper than trying to use gearboxes and transmissions. Not because it is green or more fuel efficient. There is some promising work being done on IVT.. or Infinitely Variable Transmissions.. the engine always runs in the sweet spot the foot throttle coupled with a load computer on the contact wheels, actually runs the transmission to select the speed you want from the available power... shows promise...some concept test mules have shown 90+ mpg but not here yet. Storage battery hybrids are an engineering black hole.. batteries are heavy and weigh the same charged or discharged.. .. as charge goes down, work energy available becomes less, relative load increases [ less HP avail / relative to load] ,, the harder you try to out engineer that vortex the faster you spin into darkness. Give me a blank check and 100 years and I will commit to putting I'm still working on it on your headstone. Grant... AZ On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 11:08 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: G Mann wrote: If running a small engine at speed to run a generator worked, surly someone would be doing it now. Why not? It is being done with 2.5L diesels and metro transit buses, I believe with battery or flywheel storage and regenerative braking. Mitch. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids - and big truck transmissions
Or start a green solar company. The local bus line is looking at hybrid buses, I think they use flywheels and batteries and various other things along with maybe a CNG diesel or IC something. Anyway the cost is 4x a regular diesel bus, but a lot of people are all gaga over the possibility of spending huge amounts of money on a few of them. Oh, and maintenance costs are higher too. I think the newer diesels are actually pretty clean if they are maintained, but whatever... --R On 11/18/11 3:16 PM, G Mann wrote: Give me a blank check and 100 years and I will commit to putting I'm still working on it on your headstone. Grant... AZ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids - and big truck transmissions
G Mann wrote: All good points. The end result, in any case is to place the engine at the ''sweet spot as much as possible, even on the heavy haul big rigs. If running a small engine at speed to run a generator worked, surly someone would be doing it now. Why not? Well, I don't know. Maybe 'cause I'm too busy. *grin* Or - maybe because it's more politics and marketing than engineering that's driving the green market. Or it's one of those We don't want results, we want research money issues. All that said, there is a limit to the crude oil that can be extracted from the earth's crust. I think it only prudent to look for, and develop, alternatives. It's really not too hard to find oil to transesterfy into diesel - oil that can come from poultry processing, algae, etc. That is part of why I think diesel cycle engine is such a good idea. -- Philip ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hybrids - and big truck transmissions
Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net writes: The local bus line is looking at hybrid buses They're running a few here. I've never seen any numbers published comparing fuel savings to the extra initial cost and whatever extra maintenance they might require. I can see the theory of regenerative braking making some sense on urban busses that are stopping and starting almost every block. I don't know how well it works in practice. Also imagine a flywheel storing the energy of bringing a bus to a stop from 30mph. I wouldn't want to be nearby if that thing ever broke apart. Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
