Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Clay Monroe via Mercedes]

Exact description of the Korean College exams that are being seated this week.  
Lots of complaints that the physical accommodations are horrid and impacts to 
future success are being damaged by Plexiglas panels, masking, cyber stalking 
recording and locked down computers.  

Not sure, sounds terrible to me.  But then having everything about your future 
life depend upon some entrance exam is pretty bad to my mind

Clay


inter urinas et faeces nascimur

> On Dec 4, 2020, at 11:48 AM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> For the online exams, you have to install and use a "lockdown browser"
> which takes over your computer and prevents you from accessing any other
> applications or unapproved websites.
> 
> Your camera and microphone is used to verify that nobody else is in the
> room helping you, and supposedly also to catch if you are using a
> calculator, a separate computer, looking at notes or books if not
> permitted, etc.
> 
> You have to submit a 360 camera view of the room to show what is on your
> desk and that there are no other screens or computers.
> 
> All very Orwellian. I get that cheating is a thing, but a determined
> cheater is going to cheat. At some point it's a cost of doing business
> and trying to prevent it puts too much burden on the majority of people
> who are (mostly) honest.
> 
> Allan
> 
> 
> Dan Penoff via Mercedes  writes:
> 
>> I’ve heard that our certification authorities are doing stuff like this so 
>> they can still have people testing for certs. I’m curious as to how they do 
>> it…
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>>> On Dec 4, 2020, at 3:15 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The next thing is using the camera and screenshots to verify that you
>>> are sitting at the computer and actually working on work stuff. Similar
>>> stuff is being done for students taking online exams, to try to detect
>>> cheating.
>>> 
>>> Yeah I would not work under those conditions. Also since I use an
>>> obscure OS at home, none of that would work on my computer.
>>> 
>>> Allan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dan Penoff via Mercedes  writes:
>>> 
 Agreed.
 
 Just as there are app developers out there who have come up with apps
 that “twitch” your mouse every few minutes, too.
 
 -D
>>> 
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Clay Monroe via Mercedes]

Trousers

For me it was home is where the trousers are not worn.  Work required I look 
human and behave human.

---
clay

I turned my computer upside down and shook it, but the bookmark for what I'm 
looking for didn't fall out.




> On Dec 4, 2020, at 8:29 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I was teleworking full time before I retired this summer and as you said,
> missed the daily interactions with other humans.  I also found that working
> from home meant LONGER hours, since I had no reason to log out and there
> was always a new email to open, which often kept me well beyond 8 hours.
> 
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 12:03 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> I would agree with this. I have a team that I work with, two of which are
>> younger people about 20 years my junior, and one who is a few years older
>> than me. We all get along well and have a lot of common interests, so the
>> social interaction was definitely a part of the work day. I definitely miss
>> that aspect of work.
>> 
>> The other aspect that hasn’t been mentioned here is what I would describe
>> as a “separation of duties”, although that’s not the ideal description.
>> 
>> I’m talking about the distinct delineation of “work” versus “home”. That
>> is, when I leave work, I’m done for the day both mentally and physically.
>> That’s not the case when you’re working from home. This is probably the big
>> negative for me when it comes to working from home. I like the physical
>> separation between the two environments.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>>> On Dec 4, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I realized when I was at Lotus that I was working mostly with people who
>> were not in my office so it really didn't matter much where I was.  Instead
>> of fighting traffic at 830 I would drop the kids at school, go home and
>> work for a coupla hours, make phone calls, emails, work on computer stuff,
>> whatever.  Then I would head into the office for the afternoon and if I
>> needed to meet with anyone I could do that.  I got more done at home
>> without the distractions, and dealing with colleagues in England or Europe
>> was fine from home.  It was a really nice sorta hybrid scheme. Working
>> always from home got to be old, even though I got more done and it was
>> relaxing and flexible, I missed the social interactions, random drop-in
>> discussions, and serendipitous ideas that popped up being around other
>> people and seeing them in the cafeteria or hallways.  It was just easier in
>> a lot of ways to get a job done being around others, at least for some
>> things.
>>> 
>>> IBM went to a remote work environment back in the late 90s, got rid of a
>> lot of office space but still had some for meetings/conf rooms and hot
>> desking if you needed to be somewhere with those resources.  Most of the
>> people were always traveling somewhere anyway so it did not make a lot of
>> difference.  I spent a lot of time in hotels, airports, airplanes, and
>> off-site partners and our other offices so it was fine with me though I did
>> (until I moved away) have an office at our main building in Cambridge with
>> a killer view of Boston and the river.  Plus I really liked a lot of the
>> people I worked with so that was nice to be around friends.
>>> 
>>> But yeah, the social interaction is a key factor not just in work but in
>> lots of other things, I find that people are getting cranky and ill-behaved
>> not having that.
>>> 
>>> --FT
>>> 
>>> On 12/4/20 9:26 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
 And in a nutshell that’s what this company found. While the initial
>> approach was to let roughly 50% of the employees work remotely, about a
>> third of those ended up wanting to return t the office if I recall
>> correctly. Many of them were younger people whose social lives involved
>> relationships with their (work) peers.
 
 It was pretty interesting, I thought.
 
 -D
 
> On Dec 4, 2020, at 9:17 AM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
> A wise company will do an intelligent mix.   Those who do better
>> working
> from home, work from home.  Those who do better in an office
>> environment,
> work in an office.
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
 
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 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
>>> --
>>> --FT
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives

Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

 You'd have to get rid of the CEO, CTO and all the other do nothing corporate 
types that eat up the vast majority of the budget while providing very little 
in return...
-Curt

On Friday, December 4, 2020, 3:57:17 PM EST, mi...@mitchellhaley.com 
 wrote:  
 
 On 2020-12-04 14:53, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> I've read about folks who have workstations that track active time, so
> if you don't interact every 5 seconds or so it assumes you've left.
> Pretty good sign it's time to get a new job...

How hard is it to track $$$ spent vs work received, and give raises to 
the producers while nudging the useless ones towards the door?
  
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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On 2020-12-04 14:53, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

I've read about folks who have workstations that track active time, so
if you don't interact every 5 seconds or so it assumes you've left.
Pretty good sign it's time to get a new job...


How hard is it to track $$$ spent vs work received, and give raises to 
the producers while nudging the useless ones towards the door?


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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

On 2020-12-04 15:28, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

I’ve heard that our certification authorities are doing stuff like
this so they can still have people testing for certs. I’m curious as
to how they do it…


I did a 16 hour webinar for CPE credit last month.
4x an hour a prompt would appear on the screen, you had to push a button 
to open the dialog, then answer a question, then submit your answer 
within 30 seconds. One time the dialog disappeared as I was moving the 
mouse towards the submit button.
They said you didn't need to answer every time to get credit, but they 
didn't say how many misses were allowed.


Mitch, who needs to check his CPE account right about now...

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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

For the online exams, you have to install and use a "lockdown browser"
which takes over your computer and prevents you from accessing any other
applications or unapproved websites.

Your camera and microphone is used to verify that nobody else is in the
room helping you, and supposedly also to catch if you are using a
calculator, a separate computer, looking at notes or books if not
permitted, etc.

You have to submit a 360 camera view of the room to show what is on your
desk and that there are no other screens or computers.

All very Orwellian. I get that cheating is a thing, but a determined
cheater is going to cheat. At some point it's a cost of doing business
and trying to prevent it puts too much burden on the majority of people
who are (mostly) honest.

Allan


Dan Penoff via Mercedes  writes:

> I’ve heard that our certification authorities are doing stuff like this so 
> they can still have people testing for certs. I’m curious as to how they do 
> it…
>
> -D
>
>> On Dec 4, 2020, at 3:15 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> The next thing is using the camera and screenshots to verify that you
>> are sitting at the computer and actually working on work stuff. Similar
>> stuff is being done for students taking online exams, to try to detect
>> cheating.
>> 
>> Yeah I would not work under those conditions. Also since I use an
>> obscure OS at home, none of that would work on my computer.
>> 
>> Allan
>> 
>> 
>> Dan Penoff via Mercedes  writes:
>> 
>>> Agreed.
>>> 
>>> Just as there are app developers out there who have come up with apps
>>> that “twitch” your mouse every few minutes, too.
>>> 
>>> -D
>> 

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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

Rick Knoble via Mercedes  writes:

>>Also since I use an obscure OS at home,
>
> What OS?

OpenBSD.

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I’ve heard that our certification authorities are doing stuff like this so they 
can still have people testing for certs. I’m curious as to how they do it…

-D

> On Dec 4, 2020, at 3:15 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> The next thing is using the camera and screenshots to verify that you
> are sitting at the computer and actually working on work stuff. Similar
> stuff is being done for students taking online exams, to try to detect
> cheating.
> 
> Yeah I would not work under those conditions. Also since I use an
> obscure OS at home, none of that would work on my computer.
> 
> Allan
> 
> 
> Dan Penoff via Mercedes  writes:
> 
>> Agreed.
>> 
>> Just as there are app developers out there who have come up with apps
>> that “twitch” your mouse every few minutes, too.
>> 
>> -D
> 
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

>Also since I use an obscure OS at home,

What OS?


Rick
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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

The next thing is using the camera and screenshots to verify that you
are sitting at the computer and actually working on work stuff. Similar
stuff is being done for students taking online exams, to try to detect
cheating.

Yeah I would not work under those conditions. Also since I use an
obscure OS at home, none of that would work on my computer.

Allan


Dan Penoff via Mercedes  writes:

> Agreed.
>
> Just as there are app developers out there who have come up with apps
> that “twitch” your mouse every few minutes, too.
>
> -D

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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Agreed.

Just as there are app developers out there who have come up with apps that 
“twitch” your mouse every few minutes, too.

-D

> On Dec 4, 2020, at 2:53 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> I've read about folks who have workstations that track active time, so if you 
> don't interact every 5 seconds or so it assumes you've left. Pretty good sign 
> it's time to get a new job...
> 
> Curt
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> 
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 2:28 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes
> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> Our HR department was reaching out to find some sort of application or 
> logging method to track employee’s time via Active Directory or VPN access.
> 
> We pretty much told them “No” and explained that logging can’t be a means of 
> time racking, as it’s easy to spoof and doesn’t always relate directly to 
> specific operations or actions by a user.
> 
> For example, our Cisco VPN client regularly logs on and off in the background 
> as a normal part of it’s operation. So that’s a service function, not a user 
> one. Does it mean the user wasn’t working?
> 
> Slippery slope, for sure.
> 
> -D
> 
> > On Dec 4, 2020, at 2:23 PM, Curt Raymond  > > wrote:
> > 
> > I keep a definite separation of church and state, 8 hours after I log in I 
> > log out and go do something else.
> > Or sometimes, like hunting season, I take a couple hours off to hunt and 
> > log back in after dark.
> > I think the hip and trendy term is "work/life balance".
> > 
> > Curt
> > 
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> >  >  
> > >
> > On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 2:05 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes
> > mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> > This is a common finding in the research on remote workers who work from 
> > home. They typically put in more hours because there’s no disconnect 
> > between home and work. There can also be concerns that there is a 
> > perception that if they’re not producing they’re not working. This is also 
> > something that’s come up in research as well.
> > 
> > We’ve focused on task or project completion, not watching clocks, and that 
> > seems to work well. As my boss says, he doesn’t care where or how much you 
> > work as long as things get done and when expected.
> > 
> > -D
> > 
> > > On Dec 4, 2020, at 12:29 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  > >   > > >> wrote:
> > > 
> > > I was teleworking full time before I retired this summer and as you said, 
> > > missed the daily interactions with other humans.  I also found that 
> > > working from home meant LONGER hours, since I had no reason to log out 
> > > and there was always a new email to open, which often kept me well beyond 
> > > 8 hours.  
> > > 
> > > On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 12:03 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
> > > mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> > > > 
> > >  
> > >  > > I would agree with this. I have a team that I work with, two of which are 
> > > younger people about 20 years my junior, and one who is a few years older 
> > > than me. We all get along well and have a lot of common interests, so the 
> > > social interaction was definitely a part of the work day. I definitely 
> > > miss that aspect of work.
> > > 
> > > The other aspect that hasn’t been mentioned here is what I would describe 
> > > as a “separation of duties”, although that’s not the ideal description.
> > > 
> > > I’m talking about the distinct delineation of “work” versus “home”. That 
> > > is, when I leave work, I’m done for the day both mentally and physically. 
> > > That’s not the case when you’re working from home. This is probably the 
> > > big negative for me when it comes to working from home. I like the 
> > > physical separation between the two environments.
> > > 
> > > -D
> > > 
> > > > On Dec 4, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
> > > > mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> > > > > 
> > > >  
> > > >  > > > 
> > > > I realized when I was at Lotus that I was working mostly with people 
> > > > who were not in my office so it really di

Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I've read about folks who have workstations that track active time, so if you 
don't interact every 5 seconds or so it assumes you've left. Pretty good sign 
it's time to get a new job...
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 2:28 PM, Dan Penoff via 
Mercedes wrote:   Our HR department was reaching out to 
find some sort of application or logging method to track employee’s time via 
Active Directory or VPN access.

We pretty much told them “No” and explained that logging can’t be a means of 
time racking, as it’s easy to spoof and doesn’t always relate directly to 
specific operations or actions by a user.

For example, our Cisco VPN client regularly logs on and off in the background 
as a normal part of it’s operation. So that’s a service function, not a user 
one. Does it mean the user wasn’t working?

Slippery slope, for sure.

-D

> On Dec 4, 2020, at 2:23 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> I keep a definite separation of church and state, 8 hours after I log in I 
> log out and go do something else.
> Or sometimes, like hunting season, I take a couple hours off to hunt and log 
> back in after dark.
> I think the hip and trendy term is "work/life balance".
> 
> Curt
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> 
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 2:05 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> This is a common finding in the research on remote workers who work from 
> home. They typically put in more hours because there’s no disconnect between 
> home and work. There can also be concerns that there is a perception that if 
> they’re not producing they’re not working. This is also something that’s come 
> up in research as well.
> 
> We’ve focused on task or project completion, not watching clocks, and that 
> seems to work well. As my boss says, he doesn’t care where or how much you 
> work as long as things get done and when expected.
> 
> -D
> 
> > On Dec 4, 2020, at 12:29 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  > > wrote:
> > 
> > I was teleworking full time before I retired this summer and as you said, 
> > missed the daily interactions with other humans.  I also found that working 
> > from home meant LONGER hours, since I had no reason to log out and there 
> > was always a new email to open, which often kept me well beyond 8 hours.  
> > 
> > On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 12:03 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
> > mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> > >> wrote:
> > I would agree with this. I have a team that I work with, two of which are 
> > younger people about 20 years my junior, and one who is a few years older 
> > than me. We all get along well and have a lot of common interests, so the 
> > social interaction was definitely a part of the work day. I definitely miss 
> > that aspect of work.
> > 
> > The other aspect that hasn’t been mentioned here is what I would describe 
> > as a “separation of duties”, although that’s not the ideal description.
> > 
> > I’m talking about the distinct delineation of “work” versus “home”. That 
> > is, when I leave work, I’m done for the day both mentally and physically. 
> > That’s not the case when you’re working from home. This is probably the big 
> > negative for me when it comes to working from home. I like the physical 
> > separation between the two environments.
> > 
> > -D
> > 
> > > On Dec 4, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
> > > mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> > > >> wrote:
> > > 
> > > I realized when I was at Lotus that I was working mostly with people who 
> > > were not in my office so it really didn't matter much where I was.  
> > > Instead of fighting traffic at 830 I would drop the kids at school, go 
> > > home and work for a coupla hours, make phone calls, emails, work on 
> > > computer stuff, whatever.  Then I would head into the office for the 
> > > afternoon and if I needed to meet with anyone I could do that.  I got 
> > > more done at home without the distractions, and dealing with colleagues 
> > > in England or Europe was fine from home.  It was a really nice sorta 
> > > hybrid scheme. Working always from home got to be old, even though I got 
> > > more done and it was relaxing and flexible, I missed the social 
> > > interactions, random drop-in discussions, and serendipitous ideas that 
> > > popped up being around other people and seeing them in the cafeteria or 
> > > hallways.  It was just easier in a lot of ways to get a job done being 
> > > around others, at least for some things.
> > > 
> > > IBM went to a remote work environment back in the late 90s, got rid of a 
> > > lot of office space but still had some for meetings/conf rooms and hot 
> > > desking if you needed to be somewhere with those resources.  Most 

Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Our HR department was reaching out to find some sort of application or logging 
method to track employee’s time via Active Directory or VPN access.

We pretty much told them “No” and explained that logging can’t be a means of 
time racking, as it’s easy to spoof and doesn’t always relate directly to 
specific operations or actions by a user.

For example, our Cisco VPN client regularly logs on and off in the background 
as a normal part of it’s operation. So that’s a service function, not a user 
one. Does it mean the user wasn’t working?

Slippery slope, for sure.

-D

> On Dec 4, 2020, at 2:23 PM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> I keep a definite separation of church and state, 8 hours after I log in I 
> log out and go do something else.
> Or sometimes, like hunting season, I take a couple hours off to hunt and log 
> back in after dark.
> I think the hip and trendy term is "work/life balance".
> 
> Curt
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> 
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 2:05 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> This is a common finding in the research on remote workers who work from 
> home. They typically put in more hours because there’s no disconnect between 
> home and work. There can also be concerns that there is a perception that if 
> they’re not producing they’re not working. This is also something that’s come 
> up in research as well.
> 
> We’ve focused on task or project completion, not watching clocks, and that 
> seems to work well. As my boss says, he doesn’t care where or how much you 
> work as long as things get done and when expected.
> 
> -D
> 
> > On Dec 4, 2020, at 12:29 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  > > wrote:
> > 
> > I was teleworking full time before I retired this summer and as you said, 
> > missed the daily interactions with other humans.  I also found that working 
> > from home meant LONGER hours, since I had no reason to log out and there 
> > was always a new email to open, which often kept me well beyond 8 hours.  
> > 
> > On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 12:03 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
> > mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> > >> wrote:
> > I would agree with this. I have a team that I work with, two of which are 
> > younger people about 20 years my junior, and one who is a few years older 
> > than me. We all get along well and have a lot of common interests, so the 
> > social interaction was definitely a part of the work day. I definitely miss 
> > that aspect of work.
> > 
> > The other aspect that hasn’t been mentioned here is what I would describe 
> > as a “separation of duties”, although that’s not the ideal description.
> > 
> > I’m talking about the distinct delineation of “work” versus “home”. That 
> > is, when I leave work, I’m done for the day both mentally and physically. 
> > That’s not the case when you’re working from home. This is probably the big 
> > negative for me when it comes to working from home. I like the physical 
> > separation between the two environments.
> > 
> > -D
> > 
> > > On Dec 4, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
> > > mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
> > > >> wrote:
> > > 
> > > I realized when I was at Lotus that I was working mostly with people who 
> > > were not in my office so it really didn't matter much where I was.  
> > > Instead of fighting traffic at 830 I would drop the kids at school, go 
> > > home and work for a coupla hours, make phone calls, emails, work on 
> > > computer stuff, whatever.  Then I would head into the office for the 
> > > afternoon and if I needed to meet with anyone I could do that.  I got 
> > > more done at home without the distractions, and dealing with colleagues 
> > > in England or Europe was fine from home.  It was a really nice sorta 
> > > hybrid scheme. Working always from home got to be old, even though I got 
> > > more done and it was relaxing and flexible, I missed the social 
> > > interactions, random drop-in discussions, and serendipitous ideas that 
> > > popped up being around other people and seeing them in the cafeteria or 
> > > hallways.  It was just easier in a lot of ways to get a job done being 
> > > around others, at least for some things.
> > > 
> > > IBM went to a remote work environment back in the late 90s, got rid of a 
> > > lot of office space but still had some for meetings/conf rooms and hot 
> > > desking if you needed to be somewhere with those resources.  Most of the 
> > > people were always traveling somewhere anyway so it did not make a lot of 
> > > difference.  I spent a lot of time in hotels, airports, airplanes, and 
> > > off-site partners and our other offices so it was fine with me though I 
> > > did (until I moved away) have an offic

Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

I keep a definite separation of church and state, 8 hours after I log in I log 
out and go do something else.Or sometimes, like hunting season, I take a couple 
hours off to hunt and log back in after dark.I think the hip and trendy term is 
"work/life balance".
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 2:05 PM, Dan Penoff via 
Mercedes wrote:   This is a common finding in the 
research on remote workers who work from home. They typically put in more hours 
because there’s no disconnect between home and work. There can also be concerns 
that there is a perception that if they’re not producing they’re not working. 
This is also something that’s come up in research as well.

We’ve focused on task or project completion, not watching clocks, and that 
seems to work well. As my boss says, he doesn’t care where or how much you work 
as long as things get done and when expected.

-D

> On Dec 4, 2020, at 12:29 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  wrote:
> 
> I was teleworking full time before I retired this summer and as you said, 
> missed the daily interactions with other humans.  I also found that working 
> from home meant LONGER hours, since I had no reason to log out and there was 
> always a new email to open, which often kept me well beyond 8 hours.  
> 
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 12:03 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> I would agree with this. I have a team that I work with, two of which are 
> younger people about 20 years my junior, and one who is a few years older 
> than me. We all get along well and have a lot of common interests, so the 
> social interaction was definitely a part of the work day. I definitely miss 
> that aspect of work.
> 
> The other aspect that hasn’t been mentioned here is what I would describe as 
> a “separation of duties”, although that’s not the ideal description.
> 
> I’m talking about the distinct delineation of “work” versus “home”. That is, 
> when I leave work, I’m done for the day both mentally and physically. That’s 
> not the case when you’re working from home. This is probably the big negative 
> for me when it comes to working from home. I like the physical separation 
> between the two environments.
> 
> -D
> 
> > On Dec 4, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
> > mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> > 
> > I realized when I was at Lotus that I was working mostly with people who 
> > were not in my office so it really didn't matter much where I was.  Instead 
> > of fighting traffic at 830 I would drop the kids at school, go home and 
> > work for a coupla hours, make phone calls, emails, work on computer stuff, 
> > whatever.  Then I would head into the office for the afternoon and if I 
> > needed to meet with anyone I could do that.  I got more done at home 
> > without the distractions, and dealing with colleagues in England or Europe 
> > was fine from home.  It was a really nice sorta hybrid scheme. Working 
> > always from home got to be old, even though I got more done and it was 
> > relaxing and flexible, I missed the social interactions, random drop-in 
> > discussions, and serendipitous ideas that popped up being around other 
> > people and seeing them in the cafeteria or hallways.  It was just easier in 
> > a lot of ways to get a job done being around others, at least for some 
> > things.
> > 
> > IBM went to a remote work environment back in the late 90s, got rid of a 
> > lot of office space but still had some for meetings/conf rooms and hot 
> > desking if you needed to be somewhere with those resources.  Most of the 
> > people were always traveling somewhere anyway so it did not make a lot of 
> > difference.  I spent a lot of time in hotels, airports, airplanes, and 
> > off-site partners and our other offices so it was fine with me though I did 
> > (until I moved away) have an office at our main building in Cambridge with 
> > a killer view of Boston and the river.  Plus I really liked a lot of the 
> > people I worked with so that was nice to be around friends.
> > 
> > But yeah, the social interaction is a key factor not just in work but in 
> > lots of other things, I find that people are getting cranky and ill-behaved 
> > not having that.
> > 
> > --FT
> > 
> > On 12/4/20 9:26 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
> >> And in a nutshell that’s what this company found. While the initial 
> >> approach was to let roughly 50% of the employees work remotely, about a 
> >> third of those ended up wanting to return t the office if I recall 
> >> correctly. Many of them were younger people whose social lives involved 
> >> relationships with their (work) peers.
> >> 
> >> It was pretty interesting, I thought.
> >> 
> >> -D
> >> 
> >>> On Dec 4, 2020, at 9:17 AM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes 
> >>> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> A wise company will do an intelligent mix.  Those who do better working
> >>> from home, work from home.  Those who do better in an office e

Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

This is a common finding in the research on remote workers who work from home. 
They typically put in more hours because there’s no disconnect between home and 
work. There can also be concerns that there is a perception that if they’re not 
producing they’re not working. This is also something that’s come up in 
research as well.

We’ve focused on task or project completion, not watching clocks, and that 
seems to work well. As my boss says, he doesn’t care where or how much you work 
as long as things get done and when expected.

-D

> On Dec 4, 2020, at 12:29 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  wrote:
> 
> I was teleworking full time before I retired this summer and as you said, 
> missed the daily interactions with other humans.  I also found that working 
> from home meant LONGER hours, since I had no reason to log out and there was 
> always a new email to open, which often kept me well beyond 8 hours.  
> 
> On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 12:03 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> I would agree with this. I have a team that I work with, two of which are 
> younger people about 20 years my junior, and one who is a few years older 
> than me. We all get along well and have a lot of common interests, so the 
> social interaction was definitely a part of the work day. I definitely miss 
> that aspect of work.
> 
> The other aspect that hasn’t been mentioned here is what I would describe as 
> a “separation of duties”, although that’s not the ideal description.
> 
> I’m talking about the distinct delineation of “work” versus “home”. That is, 
> when I leave work, I’m done for the day both mentally and physically. That’s 
> not the case when you’re working from home. This is probably the big negative 
> for me when it comes to working from home. I like the physical separation 
> between the two environments.
> 
> -D
> 
> > On Dec 4, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
> > mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> > 
> > I realized when I was at Lotus that I was working mostly with people who 
> > were not in my office so it really didn't matter much where I was.  Instead 
> > of fighting traffic at 830 I would drop the kids at school, go home and 
> > work for a coupla hours, make phone calls, emails, work on computer stuff, 
> > whatever.  Then I would head into the office for the afternoon and if I 
> > needed to meet with anyone I could do that.  I got more done at home 
> > without the distractions, and dealing with colleagues in England or Europe 
> > was fine from home.  It was a really nice sorta hybrid scheme. Working 
> > always from home got to be old, even though I got more done and it was 
> > relaxing and flexible, I missed the social interactions, random drop-in 
> > discussions, and serendipitous ideas that popped up being around other 
> > people and seeing them in the cafeteria or hallways.  It was just easier in 
> > a lot of ways to get a job done being around others, at least for some 
> > things.
> > 
> > IBM went to a remote work environment back in the late 90s, got rid of a 
> > lot of office space but still had some for meetings/conf rooms and hot 
> > desking if you needed to be somewhere with those resources.  Most of the 
> > people were always traveling somewhere anyway so it did not make a lot of 
> > difference.  I spent a lot of time in hotels, airports, airplanes, and 
> > off-site partners and our other offices so it was fine with me though I did 
> > (until I moved away) have an office at our main building in Cambridge with 
> > a killer view of Boston and the river.  Plus I really liked a lot of the 
> > people I worked with so that was nice to be around friends.
> > 
> > But yeah, the social interaction is a key factor not just in work but in 
> > lots of other things, I find that people are getting cranky and ill-behaved 
> > not having that.
> > 
> > --FT
> > 
> > On 12/4/20 9:26 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
> >> And in a nutshell that’s what this company found. While the initial 
> >> approach was to let roughly 50% of the employees work remotely, about a 
> >> third of those ended up wanting to return t the office if I recall 
> >> correctly. Many of them were younger people whose social lives involved 
> >> relationships with their (work) peers.
> >> 
> >> It was pretty interesting, I thought.
> >> 
> >> -D
> >> 
> >>> On Dec 4, 2020, at 9:17 AM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes 
> >>> mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> A wise company will do an intelligent mix.   Those who do better working
> >>> from home, work from home.  Those who do better in an office environment,
> >>> work in an office.
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com 
> >>> 
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_

Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 04/12/2020 11:29 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes wrote:

I was teleworking full time before I retired this summer . . .


Did I miss something? I don't recall you saying you had retired.

Congratulations! You made it out alive.

RB


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I was teleworking full time before I retired this summer and as you said,
missed the daily interactions with other humans.  I also found that working
from home meant LONGER hours, since I had no reason to log out and there
was always a new email to open, which often kept me well beyond 8 hours.

On Fri, Dec 4, 2020 at 12:03 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I would agree with this. I have a team that I work with, two of which are
> younger people about 20 years my junior, and one who is a few years older
> than me. We all get along well and have a lot of common interests, so the
> social interaction was definitely a part of the work day. I definitely miss
> that aspect of work.
>
> The other aspect that hasn’t been mentioned here is what I would describe
> as a “separation of duties”, although that’s not the ideal description.
>
> I’m talking about the distinct delineation of “work” versus “home”. That
> is, when I leave work, I’m done for the day both mentally and physically.
> That’s not the case when you’re working from home. This is probably the big
> negative for me when it comes to working from home. I like the physical
> separation between the two environments.
>
> -D
>
> > On Dec 4, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > I realized when I was at Lotus that I was working mostly with people who
> were not in my office so it really didn't matter much where I was.  Instead
> of fighting traffic at 830 I would drop the kids at school, go home and
> work for a coupla hours, make phone calls, emails, work on computer stuff,
> whatever.  Then I would head into the office for the afternoon and if I
> needed to meet with anyone I could do that.  I got more done at home
> without the distractions, and dealing with colleagues in England or Europe
> was fine from home.  It was a really nice sorta hybrid scheme. Working
> always from home got to be old, even though I got more done and it was
> relaxing and flexible, I missed the social interactions, random drop-in
> discussions, and serendipitous ideas that popped up being around other
> people and seeing them in the cafeteria or hallways.  It was just easier in
> a lot of ways to get a job done being around others, at least for some
> things.
> >
> > IBM went to a remote work environment back in the late 90s, got rid of a
> lot of office space but still had some for meetings/conf rooms and hot
> desking if you needed to be somewhere with those resources.  Most of the
> people were always traveling somewhere anyway so it did not make a lot of
> difference.  I spent a lot of time in hotels, airports, airplanes, and
> off-site partners and our other offices so it was fine with me though I did
> (until I moved away) have an office at our main building in Cambridge with
> a killer view of Boston and the river.  Plus I really liked a lot of the
> people I worked with so that was nice to be around friends.
> >
> > But yeah, the social interaction is a key factor not just in work but in
> lots of other things, I find that people are getting cranky and ill-behaved
> not having that.
> >
> > --FT
> >
> > On 12/4/20 9:26 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
> >> And in a nutshell that’s what this company found. While the initial
> approach was to let roughly 50% of the employees work remotely, about a
> third of those ended up wanting to return t the office if I recall
> correctly. Many of them were younger people whose social lives involved
> relationships with their (work) peers.
> >>
> >> It was pretty interesting, I thought.
> >>
> >> -D
> >>
> >>> On Dec 4, 2020, at 9:17 AM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> A wise company will do an intelligent mix.   Those who do better
> working
> >>> from home, work from home.  Those who do better in an office
> environment,
> >>> work in an office.
> >>> ___
> >>> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>>
> >>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> > --
> > --FT
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mer

Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I would agree with this. I have a team that I work with, two of which are 
younger people about 20 years my junior, and one who is a few years older than 
me. We all get along well and have a lot of common interests, so the social 
interaction was definitely a part of the work day. I definitely miss that 
aspect of work.

The other aspect that hasn’t been mentioned here is what I would describe as a 
“separation of duties”, although that’s not the ideal description.

I’m talking about the distinct delineation of “work” versus “home”. That is, 
when I leave work, I’m done for the day both mentally and physically. That’s 
not the case when you’re working from home. This is probably the big negative 
for me when it comes to working from home. I like the physical separation 
between the two environments.

-D

> On Dec 4, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I realized when I was at Lotus that I was working mostly with people who were 
> not in my office so it really didn't matter much where I was.  Instead of 
> fighting traffic at 830 I would drop the kids at school, go home and work for 
> a coupla hours, make phone calls, emails, work on computer stuff, whatever.  
> Then I would head into the office for the afternoon and if I needed to meet 
> with anyone I could do that.  I got more done at home without the 
> distractions, and dealing with colleagues in England or Europe was fine from 
> home.  It was a really nice sorta hybrid scheme. Working always from home got 
> to be old, even though I got more done and it was relaxing and flexible, I 
> missed the social interactions, random drop-in discussions, and serendipitous 
> ideas that popped up being around other people and seeing them in the 
> cafeteria or hallways.  It was just easier in a lot of ways to get a job done 
> being around others, at least for some things.
> 
> IBM went to a remote work environment back in the late 90s, got rid of a lot 
> of office space but still had some for meetings/conf rooms and hot desking if 
> you needed to be somewhere with those resources.  Most of the people were 
> always traveling somewhere anyway so it did not make a lot of difference.  I 
> spent a lot of time in hotels, airports, airplanes, and off-site partners and 
> our other offices so it was fine with me though I did (until I moved away) 
> have an office at our main building in Cambridge with a killer view of Boston 
> and the river.  Plus I really liked a lot of the people I worked with so that 
> was nice to be around friends.
> 
> But yeah, the social interaction is a key factor not just in work but in lots 
> of other things, I find that people are getting cranky and ill-behaved not 
> having that.
> 
> --FT
> 
> On 12/4/20 9:26 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
>> And in a nutshell that’s what this company found. While the initial approach 
>> was to let roughly 50% of the employees work remotely, about a third of 
>> those ended up wanting to return t the office if I recall correctly. Many of 
>> them were younger people whose social lives involved relationships with 
>> their (work) peers.
>> 
>> It was pretty interesting, I thought.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>>> On Dec 4, 2020, at 9:17 AM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> A wise company will do an intelligent mix.   Those who do better working
>>> from home, work from home.  Those who do better in an office environment,
>>> work in an office.
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> -- 
> --FT
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] I can not believe how stupid people are -- now remote work

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

I realized when I was at Lotus that I was working mostly with people who 
were not in my office so it really didn't matter much where I was.  
Instead of fighting traffic at 830 I would drop the kids at school, go 
home and work for a coupla hours, make phone calls, emails, work on 
computer stuff, whatever.  Then I would head into the office for the 
afternoon and if I needed to meet with anyone I could do that.  I got 
more done at home without the distractions, and dealing with colleagues 
in England or Europe was fine from home.  It was a really nice sorta 
hybrid scheme. Working always from home got to be old, even though I got 
more done and it was relaxing and flexible, I missed the social 
interactions, random drop-in discussions, and serendipitous ideas that 
popped up being around other people and seeing them in the cafeteria or 
hallways.  It was just easier in a lot of ways to get a job done being 
around others, at least for some things.


IBM went to a remote work environment back in the late 90s, got rid of a 
lot of office space but still had some for meetings/conf rooms and hot 
desking if you needed to be somewhere with those resources.  Most of the 
people were always traveling somewhere anyway so it did not make a lot 
of difference.  I spent a lot of time in hotels, airports, airplanes, 
and off-site partners and our other offices so it was fine with me 
though I did (until I moved away) have an office at our main building in 
Cambridge with a killer view of Boston and the river.  Plus I really 
liked a lot of the people I worked with so that was nice to be around 
friends.


But yeah, the social interaction is a key factor not just in work but in 
lots of other things, I find that people are getting cranky and 
ill-behaved not having that.


--FT

On 12/4/20 9:26 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

And in a nutshell that’s what this company found. While the initial approach 
was to let roughly 50% of the employees work remotely, about a third of those 
ended up wanting to return t the office if I recall correctly. Many of them 
were younger people whose social lives involved relationships with their (work) 
peers.

It was pretty interesting, I thought.

-D


On Dec 4, 2020, at 9:17 AM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes 
 wrote:

A wise company will do an intelligent mix.   Those who do better working
from home, work from home.  Those who do better in an office environment,
work in an office.
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com



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--
--FT


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