Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Our supplies are still restricted but we can at least get a mask that we
reuse. In the beginning even surgical masks were really scarce.

On Thu, May 21, 2020, 6:54 PM Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I read today that there are still shortages of PPE for health care workers,
> would you believe.
>
> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 9:38 PM Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > > They should have simply said "there are not enough masks and
> > > we need to save them for healthcare workers, so for now we don't
> > recommend
> > > the public wear them. "
> >
> > Exactly.  As I used to say when applying corporal punishment to my son:
> > "It's the _lying_ that got you the worst punishment."
> >
> > -- Jim
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
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> >
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> >
> >
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Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Clay via Mercedes]

Full body PPE with duct tape sealing the tyvec boots and gloves.

clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On May 23, 2020, at 6:09 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Beekeeper hat?
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
> 
> 
> On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 7:35 PM Clay via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> 
>> I am told the early version are big and dumb, so simple to splatter.  The
>> later batches are educated, small and vicious.  I will find out soon
>> enough.  Might need to set up a CO2 pump to keep the bugs off me, or wear a
>> backdoor screen muumuu
>> 
>> 
>> clay

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Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

I watched a movie a few months ago, where a group escaped from a Siberian
gulag and walked across China to India.  At one point they were nearly
going mad from the mosquitoes, and while hiding from locals, they observed
that none of the locals were bothered at all.  Finally one of the group
runs up to a local and asks how they keep away the bugs, and the guy
explains that a local weed gives off a scent that the bugs can't stand, so
they weave the week into a ring that they wear as a necklace.

If this weed grows in Siberia / China, it will probably grow in Alaska.
-
Max
Charleston SC


On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 10:25 AM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Rancid bear fat/grease. So the indigenous folk around Yellowknife claimed,
> or something to that effect. I will say that commercial bug sprays appeared
> to do little to discourage the beasts. Quite nasty.
>
> -D
>
> > On May 23, 2020, at 10:09 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Beekeeper hat?
> > -
> > Max
> > Charleston SC
> >
> >
> > On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 7:35 PM Clay via Mercedes  >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I am told the early version are big and dumb, so simple to splatter.
> The
> >> later batches are educated, small and vicious.  I will find out soon
> >> enough.  Might need to set up a CO2 pump to keep the bugs off me, or
> wear a
> >> backdoor screen muumuu
> >>
> >>
> >> clay
> >>
> >> I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On May 22, 2020, at 2:35 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Alaska state bird as I’ve been told. Thankfully, I was never there when
> >> they were out. I tried to limit my visits to the fall or very early
> spring.
> >> I was in Yellowknife, CN in June once, though. Dang things were so thick
> >> you couldn’t breathe without a mask or bandanna.
> >>>
> >>> -D
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
> > ___
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> >
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> >
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> >
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Rancid bear fat/grease. So the indigenous folk around Yellowknife claimed, or 
something to that effect. I will say that commercial bug sprays appeared to do 
little to discourage the beasts. Quite nasty.

-D

> On May 23, 2020, at 10:09 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Beekeeper hat?
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
> 
> 
> On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 7:35 PM Clay via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> 
>> I am told the early version are big and dumb, so simple to splatter.  The
>> later batches are educated, small and vicious.  I will find out soon
>> enough.  Might need to set up a CO2 pump to keep the bugs off me, or wear a
>> backdoor screen muumuu
>> 
>> 
>> clay
>> 
>> I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On May 22, 2020, at 2:35 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Alaska state bird as I’ve been told. Thankfully, I was never there when
>> they were out. I tried to limit my visits to the fall or very early spring.
>> I was in Yellowknife, CN in June once, though. Dang things were so thick
>> you couldn’t breathe without a mask or bandanna.
>>> 
>>> -D
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Beekeeper hat?
-
Max
Charleston SC


On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 7:35 PM Clay via Mercedes 
wrote:

> I am told the early version are big and dumb, so simple to splatter.  The
> later batches are educated, small and vicious.  I will find out soon
> enough.  Might need to set up a CO2 pump to keep the bugs off me, or wear a
> backdoor screen muumuu
>
>
> clay
>
> I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.
>
>
>
> > On May 22, 2020, at 2:35 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Alaska state bird as I’ve been told. Thankfully, I was never there when
> they were out. I tried to limit my visits to the fall or very early spring.
> I was in Yellowknife, CN in June once, though. Dang things were so thick
> you couldn’t breathe without a mask or bandanna.
> >
> > -D
>
> ___
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Clay via Mercedes]

I am told the early version are big and dumb, so simple to splatter.  The later 
batches are educated, small and vicious.  I will find out soon enough.  Might 
need to set up a CO2 pump to keep the bugs off me, or wear a backdoor screen 
muumuu


clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On May 22, 2020, at 2:35 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Alaska state bird as I’ve been told. Thankfully, I was never there when they 
> were out. I tried to limit my visits to the fall or very early spring. I was 
> in Yellowknife, CN in June once, though. Dang things were so thick you 
> couldn’t breathe without a mask or bandanna.
> 
> -D

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Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Alaska state bird as I’ve been told. Thankfully, I was never there when they 
were out. I tried to limit my visits to the fall or very early spring. I was in 
Yellowknife, CN in June once, though. Dang things were so thick you couldn’t 
breathe without a mask or bandanna.

-D

> On May 22, 2020, at 12:12 AM, Clay via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> Personally I photosynthesize D vitamin in the buff.  That tends to reduce 
> contact with others.  Prominent protrusions are masked for my safety.
> 
> I did encounter a brand new level of hell.   Mosquitoes all over, thick as 
> freshmen on a keg
> 
> clay 
> 
> I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.
> 
> 
> 
>> On May 21, 2020, at 12:21 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Well the study says that is not the case, the mask will not filter the 
>> smaller particles.  Worse, the mask may impart a false sense of security, so 
>> the infected and victim remain too close for too long, and transmission / 
>> infection happens.
>> 
>> If I were worried, I'd talk with my doctor about prophylactic use of 
>> hydroxochloroquine / zinc to protect me from infection, or just stay home.
>> 
>> Max Dillon
>> Charleston SC
>> May 21, 2020 3:00:47 PM OK Don via Mercedes :
>> 
>>> It's the ones who are not showing symptoms yet but are spewing virii 
>>> that 
>>> 
>>> the mask will protect YOU from if THEY are wearing one. 
>>> 
>>> That's how a mask helps to reduce the spread of the virus. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 1:11 PM Max Dillon via Mercedes < 
>>> 
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 
 
 https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/mask-use-rises-dramatically-evidence-their-effectiveness-sparse-and
  
 
 
 Lisa Brosseau and Margaret Sietsema are both experts on respiratory 
 
 protection and infectious diseases who have taught at the University of 
 
 Chicago (Brosseau is retired). On Apr. 1, they published a paper[ 
 
 https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data]
  for 
 
 the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy in which they stated 
 
 bluntly: "We do not recommend requiring the general public who do not have 
 
 symptoms of COVID-19-like illness to routinely wear cloth or surgical 
 
 masks." 
 
 
 Max Dillon 
 
 Charleston SC 
 
 
 ___ 
 
 http://www.okiebenz.com 
 
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ 
 
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: 
 
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com 
 
 
 
 
 
>>> 
>>>-- 
>>> 
>>> OK Don 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to 
>>> 
>>> pause and reflect." Mark Twain 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  
>>> Wernher 
>>> 
>>> Von Braun 
>>> 
>>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg 
>>> 
>>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg 
>>> 
>>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! 
>>> 
>>> ___ 
>>> 
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: 
>>> 
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
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>> 
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>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Clay via Mercedes]

Personally I photosynthesize D vitamin in the buff.  That tends to reduce 
contact with others.  Prominent protrusions are masked for my safety.

I did encounter a brand new level of hell.   Mosquitoes all over, thick as 
freshmen on a keg

clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On May 21, 2020, at 12:21 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Well the study says that is not the case, the mask will not filter the 
> smaller particles.  Worse, the mask may impart a false sense of security, so 
> the infected and victim remain too close for too long, and transmission / 
> infection happens.
> 
> If I were worried, I'd talk with my doctor about prophylactic use of 
> hydroxochloroquine / zinc to protect me from infection, or just stay home.
> 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> May 21, 2020 3:00:47 PM OK Don via Mercedes :
> 
>>  It's the ones who are not showing symptoms yet but are spewing virii 
>> that 
>> 
>> the mask will protect YOU from if THEY are wearing one. 
>> 
>> That's how a mask helps to reduce the spread of the virus. 
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 1:11 PM Max Dillon via Mercedes < 
>> 
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/mask-use-rises-dramatically-evidence-their-effectiveness-sparse-and
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  Lisa Brosseau and Margaret Sietsema are both experts on respiratory 
>>> 
>>> protection and infectious diseases who have taught at the University of 
>>> 
>>> Chicago (Brosseau is retired). On Apr. 1, they published a paper[ 
>>> 
>>> https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data]
>>>  for 
>>> 
>>> the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy in which they stated 
>>> 
>>> bluntly: "We do not recommend requiring the general public who do not have 
>>> 
>>> symptoms of COVID-19-like illness to routinely wear cloth or surgical 
>>> 
>>> masks." 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  Max Dillon 
>>> 
>>> Charleston SC 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  ___ 
>>> 
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: 
>>> 
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> OK Don 
>> 
>> 
>> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to 
>> 
>> pause and reflect." Mark Twain 
>> 
>> 
>> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  
>> Wernher 
>> 
>> Von Braun 
>> 
>> 2013 F150, 18 mpg 
>> 
>> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg 
>> 
>> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! 
>> 
>> ___ 
>> 
>> http://www.okiebenz.com 
>> 
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ 
>> 
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: 
>> 
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Clay via Mercedes]

That is the whole basis of the current plague.  Back down some very dark hole, 
long ago, some bad man in china did a bad thing with a bad virus.  Maybe he was 
provided assistance by a doctor who works in allergy and infections in USA, or 
a chinese researcher stole lab samples out of Canada, or a bat took a dump on 
the head of a weapons lab worker in Wuhan.  Nobody will know the truth, because 
WHO can ever really know, since all the data in the beginning was hand selected 
for dissemination, and has been shuffled, dealt from from the bottom of the 
deck, marked and mangled into a tangled mass with stray strands of whatever a 
person now chooses to take as gospel.

First Amendment Faith Based protected speech instead of the your local or 
federal mandated belief system related to facial apparel, work habits, 
excretory ablutions, or choice of medications for treatment.

clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On May 21, 2020, at 10:26 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> That's called cherry picking.
> 
> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 2:11 PM Max Dillon via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/mask-use-rises-dramatically-evidence-their-effectiveness-sparse-and
>> 
>> Lisa Brosseau and Margaret Sietsema are both experts on respiratory
>> protection and infectious diseases who have taught at the University of
>> Chicago (Brosseau is retired). On Apr. 1, they published a paper[
>> https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data]
>>  for
>> the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy in which they stated
>> bluntly: "We do not recommend requiring the general public who do not have
>> symptoms of COVID-19-like illness to routinely wear cloth or surgical
>> masks."
>> 
>> Max Dillon
>> Charleston SC
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

>> They should have simply said "there are not >>enough masks and we need to 
>> save them for >>healthcare workers, so for now we don't >>recommend the 
>> public wear them. "

>Exactly.  As I used to say when applying corporal >punishment to my son:
>"It's the _lying_ that got you the worst punishment."

It's the lying that causes many, who are skeptical of any official 
pronouncement, to not believe anything a government agency says. 

Three words you will never hear from a government official or The Fonz. I. Was. 
Wrong. 

https://youtu.be/uwkU8-d1gIk

Rick


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Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I read today that there are still shortages of PPE for health care workers,
would you believe.

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 9:38 PM Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> > They should have simply said "there are not enough masks and
> > we need to save them for healthcare workers, so for now we don't
> recommend
> > the public wear them. "
>
> Exactly.  As I used to say when applying corporal punishment to my son:
> "It's the _lying_ that got you the worst punishment."
>
> -- Jim
>
>
> ___
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>
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Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> They should have simply said "there are not enough masks and
> we need to save them for healthcare workers, so for now we don't recommend
> the public wear them. "

Exactly.  As I used to say when applying corporal punishment to my son:
"It's the _lying_ that got you the worst punishment."

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Well said, Karl.  I wear a mask simply to improve my chances.  I have no
illusion that it will be 100 percent effective if I enter a roomful of
infected patients on ventilators.

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 4:59 PM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Brosseau is very knowledgable in terms of the science behind masks. She is
> much less of an expert in the science of how viruses are transmitted, and
> she and many others have been caught with their pants down by covid 19. In
> March, CIDRAP published this piece by her, which was essentially saying
> that we dont know that covid 19 is NOT transmitted through the air:
>
>
> https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/03/commentary-covid-19-transmission-messages-should-hinge-science
>
> At the end of the piece she says that it is ok that we dont have evidence
> one way or the other. She also says that policy should be driven by
> science.
>
> Unfortunately for Brousseau and CIDRAP, policy cannot always wait for
> science. Policymakers frequently have to make decisions based upon
> inconclusive data, in the absence of scientific certainty. This was the
> point Rand Paul was making to Tony Fauci the other day, and which Fauci
> completely agreed with: scientists don't get to make policies unless they
> are elected. A lot of policy has very little science to back it up, but
> there needs to be a policy, so one is created.
>
>  When COVID 19 started, no one recommended masks for the public -including
> the CDC. In retrospect this seems to have been driven by the fact that
> there was no proof of airborne spread and there were not enough masks for
> the general public. There were not even enough masks for people who work in
> hospitals. The major policy organizations wanted to discourage mask
> hoarding by the public. So the big organizations and their experts
> emphasized the lack of evidence for airborne transmission to make the case
> that the public should not wear masks.
>
> But using science to justify that policy was a mistake, because, as
> Brousseau herself said: there is no good science to justify the public not
> wearing masks. They should have simply said "there are not enough masks and
> we need to save them for healthcare workers, so for now we dont recommend
> the public wear them. "
>
> It turns out covid 19 is transmitted very readily by the general public to
> each other by airborne routes, and the absence of evidence is not the same
> as evidence for absence (of airborne transmission). Several papers have
> emerged since March detailing outbreaks in restaurants in China, choir
> practices in Washington state and now the aerobics class in Korea where the
> virus was clearly spread through the air without any close contact at all,
> to 3/4 of the choir from a single person in that outbreak and to over a
> hundred aerobics students by infected instructors in Korea.
>
> So now the recommendations are changing - again despite the lack of
> conclusive scientific evidence. It is clear the virus spreads through the
> air, particularly indoors. We still dont have high quality evidence that
> surgical and cloth masks prevent transmission, but there is pretty good
> evidence that they trap the particle sizes of interest and decrease the
> amount that escape into the air when people exhale. So there is some reason
> to think masks are helpful, and because airborne transmission has now been
> extremely well documented among members of the public, pretty much all of
> the experts that were so against masks for the general public are having to
> backpedal on their previous policy statements, including the CDC itself.
> The countries that have done the best at containing this outbreak all have
> universal mask wearing. Increasingly everyone in the scientific community
> is admitting that our previous understanding of transmission routes for
> respiratory viruses was completely inadequate, based on outdated evidence
> and now we have to modify our thinking and our policy to deal with the
> reality before us.
>
> I cannot guarantee scientifically that surgical masks protect other members
> of the public from Sars CoV 2. But I am willing to wear a mask in public,
> because it doesnt cost me anything and because it looks increasingly likely
> that it might be an important part of how we as a society control this
> disease and get back to something closer to normal.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 21, 2020, 11:11 AM Max Dillon via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/mask-use-rises-dramatically-evidence-their-effectiveness-sparse-and
> >
> > Lisa Brosseau and Margaret Sietsema are both experts on respiratory
> > protection and infectious diseases who have taught at the University of
> > Chicago (Brosseau is retired). On Apr. 1, they published a paper[
> >
> https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data]
> for
> > the Cente

Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Brosseau is very knowledgable in terms of the science behind masks. She is
much less of an expert in the science of how viruses are transmitted, and
she and many others have been caught with their pants down by covid 19. In
March, CIDRAP published this piece by her, which was essentially saying
that we dont know that covid 19 is NOT transmitted through the air:

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/03/commentary-covid-19-transmission-messages-should-hinge-science

At the end of the piece she says that it is ok that we dont have evidence
one way or the other. She also says that policy should be driven by
science.

Unfortunately for Brousseau and CIDRAP, policy cannot always wait for
science. Policymakers frequently have to make decisions based upon
inconclusive data, in the absence of scientific certainty. This was the
point Rand Paul was making to Tony Fauci the other day, and which Fauci
completely agreed with: scientists don't get to make policies unless they
are elected. A lot of policy has very little science to back it up, but
there needs to be a policy, so one is created.

 When COVID 19 started, no one recommended masks for the public -including
the CDC. In retrospect this seems to have been driven by the fact that
there was no proof of airborne spread and there were not enough masks for
the general public. There were not even enough masks for people who work in
hospitals. The major policy organizations wanted to discourage mask
hoarding by the public. So the big organizations and their experts
emphasized the lack of evidence for airborne transmission to make the case
that the public should not wear masks.

But using science to justify that policy was a mistake, because, as
Brousseau herself said: there is no good science to justify the public not
wearing masks. They should have simply said "there are not enough masks and
we need to save them for healthcare workers, so for now we dont recommend
the public wear them. "

It turns out covid 19 is transmitted very readily by the general public to
each other by airborne routes, and the absence of evidence is not the same
as evidence for absence (of airborne transmission). Several papers have
emerged since March detailing outbreaks in restaurants in China, choir
practices in Washington state and now the aerobics class in Korea where the
virus was clearly spread through the air without any close contact at all,
to 3/4 of the choir from a single person in that outbreak and to over a
hundred aerobics students by infected instructors in Korea.

So now the recommendations are changing - again despite the lack of
conclusive scientific evidence. It is clear the virus spreads through the
air, particularly indoors. We still dont have high quality evidence that
surgical and cloth masks prevent transmission, but there is pretty good
evidence that they trap the particle sizes of interest and decrease the
amount that escape into the air when people exhale. So there is some reason
to think masks are helpful, and because airborne transmission has now been
extremely well documented among members of the public, pretty much all of
the experts that were so against masks for the general public are having to
backpedal on their previous policy statements, including the CDC itself.
The countries that have done the best at containing this outbreak all have
universal mask wearing. Increasingly everyone in the scientific community
is admitting that our previous understanding of transmission routes for
respiratory viruses was completely inadequate, based on outdated evidence
and now we have to modify our thinking and our policy to deal with the
reality before us.

I cannot guarantee scientifically that surgical masks protect other members
of the public from Sars CoV 2. But I am willing to wear a mask in public,
because it doesnt cost me anything and because it looks increasingly likely
that it might be an important part of how we as a society control this
disease and get back to something closer to normal.





On Thu, May 21, 2020, 11:11 AM Max Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/mask-use-rises-dramatically-evidence-their-effectiveness-sparse-and
>
> Lisa Brosseau and Margaret Sietsema are both experts on respiratory
> protection and infectious diseases who have taught at the University of
> Chicago (Brosseau is retired). On Apr. 1, they published a paper[
> https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data]
>  for
> the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy in which they stated
> bluntly: "We do not recommend requiring the general public who do not have
> symptoms of COVID-19-like illness to routinely wear cloth or surgical
> masks."
>
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery op

Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Well the study says that is not the case, the mask will not filter the smaller 
particles.  Worse, the mask may impart a false sense of security, so the 
infected and victim remain too close for too long, and transmission / infection 
happens.

If I were worried, I'd talk with my doctor about prophylactic use of 
hydroxochloroquine / zinc to protect me from infection, or just stay home.

Max Dillon
Charleston SC
May 21, 2020 3:00:47 PM OK Don via Mercedes :

>   It's the ones who are not showing symptoms yet but are spewing virii 
> that 
>  
> the mask will protect YOU from if THEY are wearing one. 
>  
> That's how a mask helps to reduce the spread of the virus. 
>  
>  
>  On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 1:11 PM Max Dillon via Mercedes < 
>  
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: 
>  
>  
>   
>  
> >  
> >   
> > https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/mask-use-rises-dramatically-evidence-their-effectiveness-sparse-and
> >  
> >   
> >  
> >   Lisa Brosseau and Margaret Sietsema are both experts on respiratory 
> >   
> > protection and infectious diseases who have taught at the University of 
> >   
> > Chicago (Brosseau is retired). On Apr. 1, they published a paper[ 
> >   
> > https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data]
> >  for 
> >   
> > the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy in which they stated 
> >   
> > bluntly: "We do not recommend requiring the general public who do not have 
> >   
> > symptoms of COVID-19-like illness to routinely wear cloth or surgical 
> >   
> > masks." 
> >   
> >  
> >   Max Dillon 
> >   
> > Charleston SC 
> >   
> >  
> >   ___ 
> >   
> > http://www.okiebenz.com 
> >   
> >  
> >   To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ 
> >   
> >  
> >   To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: 
> >   
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com 
> >   
> >  
> >
> >
> >  
>  
>  -- 
>  
> OK Don 
>  
>  
>  "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to 
>  
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain 
>  
>  
>  “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  
> Wernher 
>  
> Von Braun 
>  
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg 
>  
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg 
>  
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! 
>  
> ___ 
>  
> http://www.okiebenz.com 
>  
>  
>  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ 
>  
>  
>  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: 
>  
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com 
>  
>  
> 

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Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[OK Don via Mercedes]

It's the ones who are not showing symptoms yet but are spewing virii that
the mask will protect YOU from if THEY are wearing one.
That's how a mask helps to reduce the spread of the virus.

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 1:11 PM Max Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/mask-use-rises-dramatically-evidence-their-effectiveness-sparse-and
>
> Lisa Brosseau and Margaret Sietsema are both experts on respiratory
> protection and infectious diseases who have taught at the University of
> Chicago (Brosseau is retired). On Apr. 1, they published a paper[
> https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data]
>  for
> the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy in which they stated
> bluntly: "We do not recommend requiring the general public who do not have
> symptoms of COVID-19-like illness to routinely wear cloth or surgical
> masks."
>
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

That's called cherry picking.

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 2:11 PM Max Dillon via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/mask-use-rises-dramatically-evidence-their-effectiveness-sparse-and
>
> Lisa Brosseau and Margaret Sietsema are both experts on respiratory
> protection and infectious diseases who have taught at the University of
> Chicago (Brosseau is retired). On Apr. 1, they published a paper[
> https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data]
>  for
> the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy in which they stated
> bluntly: "We do not recommend requiring the general public who do not have
> symptoms of COVID-19-like illness to routinely wear cloth or surgical
> masks."
>
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/mask-use-rises-dramatically-evidence-their-effectiveness-sparse-and

Lisa Brosseau and Margaret Sietsema are both experts on respiratory protection 
and infectious diseases who have taught at the University of Chicago (Brosseau 
is retired). On Apr. 1, they published a 
paper[https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data]
 for the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy in which they stated 
bluntly: "We do not recommend requiring the general public who do not have 
symptoms of COVID-19-like illness to routinely wear cloth or surgical masks."

Max Dillon
Charleston SC

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Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I walked up the very tall Metro escalator at Bethesda wearing my N95 mask
and was slightly winded at the top, but not much more so than normally
(sans mask).  Maybe 5 percent?

On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 12:51 PM Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Surgical masks and cloth masks are far less restrictive than n95s. Here is
> an article on n95s in healthcare workers. If a nurse can do this for 12h
> walking all over the place without any issues, the rest of us can tolerate
> cloth masks for a trip to the grocery store.
>
>
> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20420727/?fbclid=IwAR2i2WntsznayV4nJcAf0Nzi6kaHV5lLfdqhvQOKemqBCBN9bmBLpjoMaBk
>
> On Wed, May 20, 2020, 4:11 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > Very few people outside hospitals wear or have access to surgical
> > masks.   Most people are wearing home made is lam coverings.   THe
> > oxygen deprivation and/or CO2 accumulation is unknown for these, and is
> > probably in line with the results of the study you want to trash
> outright.
> >
> > > Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
> > > May 20, 2020 at 4:33 PM
> > > Masks could be helpful. The evidence is not great as Max alludes, but
> > they
> > > definitely do not increase transmission and look increasingly like they
> > > provide benefit in preventing transmission. There are no harmful
> effects;
> > > whoever wrote the O2 thing is full of BS.
> > >
> > > This was a recent summary, with refs:
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=137495654570048&id=100553591597588
> > >
> > > Facemasks, facemasks, facemasks! The transmission control strategy so
> > > effective, safe, and nice, we say it thrice! (Now, with numbers!)
> > >
> > > FACEMASKS: SAFE FOR DOCTORS AND THOSE WHO PLAY THEM ON TV
> > >
> > > Much of the worry about masks centers on misunderstandings about carbon
> > > dioxide.
> > >
> > > Ever had surgery? Did you notice all the fully alert, bustling, masked
> > > people- many of whom wear masks for 24+ hours in a row (🙋🏼‍♀️been
> > there,
> > > got the scrub top). Medical types prefer to keep their wits about them.
> > > Operating, making snappy decisions, flirting with the scrub nurse
> (that’s
> > > for the TV docs)- it requires those masked people to be firing on all
> > > cylinders. If wearing a mask led to re-inhalation of one’s own carbon
> > > dioxide (called “hypercapnia”) and the resultant sleepiness and trouble
> > > thinking as mask detractors claim, we’d all be wandering around maimed
> > > from
> > > zombified surgeons. And there would be way fewer baby showers for the
> > > TV OR
> > > staff.
> > >
> > > More specifically, the porous nature of the material used for both
> > > medical-grade masks and cloth masks fully permits normal respiration.
> If
> > > you can inhale through it, you can exhale through it. There is no
> > trapping
> > > and recirculating of air (otherwise it would blow up like a balloon
> when
> > > you breathe out).
> > >
> > > LYING ABOUT HAVING AN OBSTRUCTIVE AIRWAY DISEASE IS LIKE BUYING A
> SERVICE
> > > DOG VEST FOR YOUR IGUANA AND I DON’T WANT TO SIT NEXT TO YOUR IGUANA,
> > > KAREN
> > >
> > > Also circulating around is a printable card citing the Americans with
> > > Disabilities Act and stating the bearer does not need to comply with
> > > masking, which anyone can print.
> > >
> > > Firstly, COPD patients are extremely vulnerable to viral infections and
> > > could use the extra protection masking affords. Many people with mild,
> > > well-controlled COPD can tolerate a mask just fine, since the added
> > > resistance is minimal, but people with more severe disease cannot.
> > >
> > > Ever been on a flight with someone’s pet in a fake service dog vest?
> How
> > > did lying work out? Don’t be an emotional support peacock.
> > >
> > > FACEMASKS: THEY’RE ABOUT YOUR FACE, BUT NOT AN ABOUT-FACE
> > >
> > > There is confusion about why initially masks were NOT recommended, but
> > now
> > > they are. In early March the world experienced a catastrophic shortage
> in
> > > Personal Protective Equipment, most of which was made in China.
> Frontline
> > > health care workers were barebacking it, despite caring for patients
> > > suffering from a lethal infectious disease. Many became infected, and
> > some
> > > died. Hospitals rationed equipment like it was the elixir of life. We
> > came
> > > up with clever ways to reuse and sterilize masks. We all remembered
> > fondly
> > > the days when we just *threw the extra gloves which come out of the
> > > box all
> > > glommed together away* like we were glove billionaires or something.
> > >
> > > Against that backdrop the public was advised not to wear masks. That
> was
> > > not because masks weren’t safe, effective, or a great idea. It was
> > because
> > > masks were RATIONED where they were needed most.
> > >
> > > Now, things have opened up- medical masks are available again. Cloth
> face
> > > coverings, w

Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Surgical masks and cloth masks are far less restrictive than n95s. Here is
an article on n95s in healthcare workers. If a nurse can do this for 12h
walking all over the place without any issues, the rest of us can tolerate
cloth masks for a trip to the grocery store.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20420727/?fbclid=IwAR2i2WntsznayV4nJcAf0Nzi6kaHV5lLfdqhvQOKemqBCBN9bmBLpjoMaBk

On Wed, May 20, 2020, 4:11 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Very few people outside hospitals wear or have access to surgical
> masks.   Most people are wearing home made is lam coverings.   THe
> oxygen deprivation and/or CO2 accumulation is unknown for these, and is
> probably in line with the results of the study you want to trash outright.
>
> > Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
> > May 20, 2020 at 4:33 PM
> > Masks could be helpful. The evidence is not great as Max alludes, but
> they
> > definitely do not increase transmission and look increasingly like they
> > provide benefit in preventing transmission. There are no harmful effects;
> > whoever wrote the O2 thing is full of BS.
> >
> > This was a recent summary, with refs:
> >
> >
> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=137495654570048&id=100553591597588
> >
> > Facemasks, facemasks, facemasks! The transmission control strategy so
> > effective, safe, and nice, we say it thrice! (Now, with numbers!)
> >
> > FACEMASKS: SAFE FOR DOCTORS AND THOSE WHO PLAY THEM ON TV
> >
> > Much of the worry about masks centers on misunderstandings about carbon
> > dioxide.
> >
> > Ever had surgery? Did you notice all the fully alert, bustling, masked
> > people- many of whom wear masks for 24+ hours in a row (🙋🏼‍♀️been
> there,
> > got the scrub top). Medical types prefer to keep their wits about them.
> > Operating, making snappy decisions, flirting with the scrub nurse (that’s
> > for the TV docs)- it requires those masked people to be firing on all
> > cylinders. If wearing a mask led to re-inhalation of one’s own carbon
> > dioxide (called “hypercapnia”) and the resultant sleepiness and trouble
> > thinking as mask detractors claim, we’d all be wandering around maimed
> > from
> > zombified surgeons. And there would be way fewer baby showers for the
> > TV OR
> > staff.
> >
> > More specifically, the porous nature of the material used for both
> > medical-grade masks and cloth masks fully permits normal respiration. If
> > you can inhale through it, you can exhale through it. There is no
> trapping
> > and recirculating of air (otherwise it would blow up like a balloon when
> > you breathe out).
> >
> > LYING ABOUT HAVING AN OBSTRUCTIVE AIRWAY DISEASE IS LIKE BUYING A SERVICE
> > DOG VEST FOR YOUR IGUANA AND I DON’T WANT TO SIT NEXT TO YOUR IGUANA,
> > KAREN
> >
> > Also circulating around is a printable card citing the Americans with
> > Disabilities Act and stating the bearer does not need to comply with
> > masking, which anyone can print.
> >
> > Firstly, COPD patients are extremely vulnerable to viral infections and
> > could use the extra protection masking affords. Many people with mild,
> > well-controlled COPD can tolerate a mask just fine, since the added
> > resistance is minimal, but people with more severe disease cannot.
> >
> > Ever been on a flight with someone’s pet in a fake service dog vest? How
> > did lying work out? Don’t be an emotional support peacock.
> >
> > FACEMASKS: THEY’RE ABOUT YOUR FACE, BUT NOT AN ABOUT-FACE
> >
> > There is confusion about why initially masks were NOT recommended, but
> now
> > they are. In early March the world experienced a catastrophic shortage in
> > Personal Protective Equipment, most of which was made in China. Frontline
> > health care workers were barebacking it, despite caring for patients
> > suffering from a lethal infectious disease. Many became infected, and
> some
> > died. Hospitals rationed equipment like it was the elixir of life. We
> came
> > up with clever ways to reuse and sterilize masks. We all remembered
> fondly
> > the days when we just *threw the extra gloves which come out of the
> > box all
> > glommed together away* like we were glove billionaires or something.
> >
> > Against that backdrop the public was advised not to wear masks. That was
> > not because masks weren’t safe, effective, or a great idea. It was
> because
> > masks were RATIONED where they were needed most.
> >
> > Now, things have opened up- medical masks are available again. Cloth face
> > coverings, which are insufficient for frontline health care work around
> > massive doses of virus, have been proven effective for the general
> public.
> > Masking is now strongly recommended. Nothing about the virus or our
> > understanding of it has changed.
> >
> > YOUR MASK IS NOT A VIRUS CLUB MED
> >
> > Some people have argued that breathing into your mask sprays it chock
> full
> > o’virus, and then you’ll reinfect yourself constantly, like some kind of
> > COVID Dutch oven. Firstly- any

Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> They have a cloth face mask, and are holding it under the blow dryer. Why?

Likely they washed it at the sink.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

From a woman who operates a hair salon. Reopened for 3 days: " I’m 
trying to be so good with this face mask thing to protect my clients. I 
am pretty sure it effects my hearing, clogs my brain and makes me 
exhausted. By Saturday it will make me drink!"



I have no doubt that people in the medical industry get used to wearing 
surgical masks, but for people who don't wear them every day, there is 
noticeable hypoxia, and I'd not be surprised if co2 levels were elevated 
too. 🍷🍷😷



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Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Clay via Mercedes]

Yesterday’s local paper has a VERY long article about the impact of re-opening 
the economy and the impact of bathrooms.  The inability to access, keep clean 
enough, provide enhanced sanitation and products, sealing off of urinals, 
removal of door to the pot, swapping out basins, drying apparatus (from air to 
toweling, or vice versa, paper or cloth, open or enclosed blower of air) hiring 
of new executive level Bathroom VP, or more sanitation monkeys.  And for all 
manner of enterprise.  Meanwhile, you can not use the heads on flights.  That 
makes all manner of sense!  Limit flights to under one hour, or sell Depends at 
the gate.  Just imagine the stench on a flight to Sydney or over the pole.

clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On May 20, 2020, at 5:44 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I was at our emergency operations center the other day. Went to the restroom. 
> After using the urinal, I was waiting for the person ahead of me to finish at 
> the sink. We have hand dryers, the high speed heated blower things. I’m 
> trying to be patient while I stand to one side and wait for this person to 
> finish blow drying.
> 
> I wait.
> 
> I wait.
> 
> Finally, I step to one side to see what might be causing this person to 
> engage with the blow dryer for an extended period.
> 
> They have a cloth face mask, and are holding it under the blow dryer. Why? 
> Who knows, maybe they think the heat is going to kill all the germs in it?
> 
> < facepalm>
> 
> -D

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Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

>They have a cloth face mask, and are holding it under the blow dryer.

Yep. Blowing viruses all over the place. I'd probably bitch to do away with the 
hand dryers. 
The same goes for the industrial grade shitters in the jails, hospitals and 
nursing homes. Take a virus that is shed in feces, and put said feces in a 
toilet that spews like a volcano, with no lid 

Brilliant. 

Rick
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Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I was at our emergency operations center the other day. Went to the restroom. 
After using the urinal, I was waiting for the person ahead of me to finish at 
the sink. We have hand dryers, the high speed heated blower things. I’m trying 
to be patient while I stand to one side and wait for this person to finish blow 
drying.

I wait.

I wait.

Finally, I step to one side to see what might be causing this person to engage 
with the blow dryer for an extended period.

They have a cloth face mask, and are holding it under the blow dryer. Why? Who 
knows, maybe they think the heat is going to kill all the germs in it?

< facepalm>

-D
> On May 20, 2020, at 9:39 PM, Clay via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> My understanding it that all the masking is DISPOSABLE, like supposed to be 
> single use, not constant use.  Unless somebody has a massive stockpile of 
> mask in a box, they are re-using a polluted scrap of cloth, multiple times a 
> day, that has gathered the toxic waste products of the distanced people 
> within ten feet of them.
> 
> That can not be healthy.
> 
> I can see washing the dust out of your bandana, cowboy.  But paper filled 
> mask, made at home from your convenient local coffee filter is not likely to 
> hold up.  Maybe the all cloth mask should be baked in an autoclave.  Just for 
> safety sake.  That could be the Next Big Thing, a home autoclave for all the 
> mandated sanitation of articles of public contact.
> 
> Not sure about the rest of the people, but doing demolition, construction 
> projects and insulation insertion, I find that a mask is good for about 30 
> minutes of protection, then needs replacement. 
> 
> clay 
> 
> I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.
> 
> 
> 
>> On May 20, 2020, at 3:10 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Very few people outside hospitals wear or have access to surgical masks.   
>> Most people are wearing home made is lam coverings.   THe oxygen deprivation 
>> and/or CO2 accumulation is unknown for these, and is probably in line with 
>> the results of the study you want to trash outright.
>> 
>>> Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
>>> May 20, 2020 at 4:33 PM
>>> Masks could be helpful. The evidence is not great as Max alludes, but they
>>> definitely do not increase transmission and look increasingly like they
>>> provide benefit in preventing transmission. There are no harmful effects;
>>> whoever wrote the O2 thing is full of BS.
>>> 
>>> This was a recent summary, with refs:
>>> 
>>> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=137495654570048&id=100553591597588
>>> 
>>> Facemasks, facemasks, facemasks! The transmission control strategy so
>>> effective, safe, and nice, we say it thrice! (Now, with numbers!)
>>> 
>>> FACEMASKS: SAFE FOR DOCTORS AND THOSE WHO PLAY THEM ON TV
>>> 
>>> Much of the worry about masks centers on misunderstandings about carbon
>>> dioxide.
>>> 
>>> Ever had surgery? Did you notice all the fully alert, bustling, masked
>>> people- many of whom wear masks for 24+ hours in a row (🙋🏼‍♀️been there,
>>> got the scrub top). Medical types prefer to keep their wits about them.
>>> Operating, making snappy decisions, flirting with the scrub nurse (that’s
>>> for the TV docs)- it requires those masked people to be firing on all
>>> cylinders. If wearing a mask led to re-inhalation of one’s own carbon
>>> dioxide (called “hypercapnia”) and the resultant sleepiness and trouble
>>> thinking as mask detractors claim, we’d all be wandering around maimed from
>>> zombified surgeons. And there would be way fewer baby showers for the TV OR
>>> staff.
>>> 
>>> More specifically, the porous nature of the material used for both
>>> medical-grade masks and cloth masks fully permits normal respiration. If
>>> you can inhale through it, you can exhale through it. There is no trapping
>>> and recirculating of air (otherwise it would blow up like a balloon when
>>> you breathe out).
>>> 
>>> LYING ABOUT HAVING AN OBSTRUCTIVE AIRWAY DISEASE IS LIKE BUYING A SERVICE
>>> DOG VEST FOR YOUR IGUANA AND I DON’T WANT TO SIT NEXT TO YOUR IGUANA, KAREN
>>> 
>>> Also circulating around is a printable card citing the Americans with
>>> Disabilities Act and stating the bearer does not need to comply with
>>> masking, which anyone can print.
>>> 
>>> Firstly, COPD patients are extremely vulnerable to viral infections and
>>> could use the extra protection masking affords. Many people with mild,
>>> well-controlled COPD can tolerate a mask just fine, since the added
>>> resistance is minimal, but people with more severe disease cannot.
>>> 
>>> Ever been on a flight with someone’s pet in a fake service dog vest? How
>>> did lying work out? Don’t be an emotional support peacock.
>>> 
>>> FACEMASKS: THEY’RE ABOUT YOUR FACE, BUT NOT AN ABOUT-FACE
>>> 
>>> There is confusion about why initially masks were NOT recommended, but now
>>> they are. In early March the world experienced a catastrophic shortage in
>>> Personal Protective Equi

Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Clay via Mercedes]

My understanding it that all the masking is DISPOSABLE, like supposed to be 
single use, not constant use.  Unless somebody has a massive stockpile of mask 
in a box, they are re-using a polluted scrap of cloth, multiple times a day, 
that has gathered the toxic waste products of the distanced people within ten 
feet of them.

That can not be healthy.

I can see washing the dust out of your bandana, cowboy.  But paper filled mask, 
made at home from your convenient local coffee filter is not likely to hold up. 
 Maybe the all cloth mask should be baked in an autoclave.  Just for safety 
sake.  That could be the Next Big Thing, a home autoclave for all the mandated 
sanitation of articles of public contact.

Not sure about the rest of the people, but doing demolition, construction 
projects and insulation insertion, I find that a mask is good for about 30 
minutes of protection, then needs replacement. 

clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On May 20, 2020, at 3:10 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Very few people outside hospitals wear or have access to surgical masks.   
> Most people are wearing home made is lam coverings.   THe oxygen deprivation 
> and/or CO2 accumulation is unknown for these, and is probably in line with 
> the results of the study you want to trash outright.
> 
>> Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
>> May 20, 2020 at 4:33 PM
>> Masks could be helpful. The evidence is not great as Max alludes, but they
>> definitely do not increase transmission and look increasingly like they
>> provide benefit in preventing transmission. There are no harmful effects;
>> whoever wrote the O2 thing is full of BS.
>> 
>> This was a recent summary, with refs:
>> 
>> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=137495654570048&id=100553591597588
>> 
>> Facemasks, facemasks, facemasks! The transmission control strategy so
>> effective, safe, and nice, we say it thrice! (Now, with numbers!)
>> 
>> FACEMASKS: SAFE FOR DOCTORS AND THOSE WHO PLAY THEM ON TV
>> 
>> Much of the worry about masks centers on misunderstandings about carbon
>> dioxide.
>> 
>> Ever had surgery? Did you notice all the fully alert, bustling, masked
>> people- many of whom wear masks for 24+ hours in a row (🙋🏼‍♀️been there,
>> got the scrub top). Medical types prefer to keep their wits about them.
>> Operating, making snappy decisions, flirting with the scrub nurse (that’s
>> for the TV docs)- it requires those masked people to be firing on all
>> cylinders. If wearing a mask led to re-inhalation of one’s own carbon
>> dioxide (called “hypercapnia”) and the resultant sleepiness and trouble
>> thinking as mask detractors claim, we’d all be wandering around maimed from
>> zombified surgeons. And there would be way fewer baby showers for the TV OR
>> staff.
>> 
>> More specifically, the porous nature of the material used for both
>> medical-grade masks and cloth masks fully permits normal respiration. If
>> you can inhale through it, you can exhale through it. There is no trapping
>> and recirculating of air (otherwise it would blow up like a balloon when
>> you breathe out).
>> 
>> LYING ABOUT HAVING AN OBSTRUCTIVE AIRWAY DISEASE IS LIKE BUYING A SERVICE
>> DOG VEST FOR YOUR IGUANA AND I DON’T WANT TO SIT NEXT TO YOUR IGUANA, KAREN
>> 
>> Also circulating around is a printable card citing the Americans with
>> Disabilities Act and stating the bearer does not need to comply with
>> masking, which anyone can print.
>> 
>> Firstly, COPD patients are extremely vulnerable to viral infections and
>> could use the extra protection masking affords. Many people with mild,
>> well-controlled COPD can tolerate a mask just fine, since the added
>> resistance is minimal, but people with more severe disease cannot.
>> 
>> Ever been on a flight with someone’s pet in a fake service dog vest? How
>> did lying work out? Don’t be an emotional support peacock.
>> 
>> FACEMASKS: THEY’RE ABOUT YOUR FACE, BUT NOT AN ABOUT-FACE
>> 
>> There is confusion about why initially masks were NOT recommended, but now
>> they are. In early March the world experienced a catastrophic shortage in
>> Personal Protective Equipment, most of which was made in China. Frontline
>> health care workers were barebacking it, despite caring for patients
>> suffering from a lethal infectious disease. Many became infected, and some
>> died. Hospitals rationed equipment like it was the elixir of life. We came
>> up with clever ways to reuse and sterilize masks. We all remembered fondly
>> the days when we just *threw the extra gloves which come out of the box all
>> glommed together away* like we were glove billionaires or something.
>> 
>> Against that backdrop the public was advised not to wear masks. That was
>> not because masks weren’t safe, effective, or a great idea. It was because
>> masks were RATIONED where they were needed most.
>> 
>> Now, things have opened up- medical masks are available again. Cloth face
>> coverings,

Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Clay via Mercedes]

The wearing of masks is showing a marked increase in property crimes with 
expected rise in lead poisonings as more civilians and enforcement officials 
are confronted with ambiguous situations where cutlery and unconventional 
behaviour is exhibited.

At least that is the reporting from several media sources out of PNW.  Shoot 
first, ask about infection later.  Masked citizen or ne’er do well holding them 
up under cover of mandated bandana banditry.

Unintended consequences, but not in the least surprising, for the terminally 
short sighted. 


clay 

I have no pronouns please do not refer to me.



> On May 20, 2020, at 9:36 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Peter, here's a study that should bring you great comfort.
> 
> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S092485792030145X?via%3Dihub
> 
> There is a very effective drug therapy that appears to be 100% effective at
> preventing Wuhan Red Death from causing COVID-19.  Rather than lock-down
> and enforced mask wearing, vulnerable populations and those who feel they
> are at threat from the disease can use this drug therapy.
> 
> No more need for masks, social isolation, lock-down, contact tracing,
> forced quarantines, and other oppressive measures.
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
> 
> 
> On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 9:11 AM Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> There is no science in that "study" -- it's an opinion piece.
>> 
>> There is absolutely NO evidence that wearing a face mask "concentrates"
>> the virus and causes infection of the brain, the virus is already
>> circulating in the bloodstream.
>> 
>> If any of this was true surgeons would not wear masks in surgery.
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

The homemade masks have been studied pretty well. It is true the spun
polypropylene is pretty breathable, but in general the problem with most
homemade masks is that they dont filter small particles nearly as well as
the surgical masks. The more layers of different fabrics they have, the
better they tend to do on filtration, and higher thread counts are better
in general.

In terms of hypoxia if you can breathe through it you will be fine. There
is no hidden hypoxia issue. I am not trashing any study. Pick the mask of
your choice, put it on your face and watch your O2 sat on one of those
little finger monitors. It is very unlikely to change. Basically anything
over 92% is OK as long as the pleth waveform is good. For a mask to make
you hypoxic it would have to keep you from inhaling a full breath. No one
would wear a mask like that for even a minute. If you have underlying COPD
or other chronic lung disease, then the above does not apply to you. If you
are making homemade masks that keep you from inhaling then good luck trying
to get anyone to wear them.





On Wed, May 20, 2020, 4:11 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Very few people outside hospitals wear or have access to surgical
> masks.   Most people are wearing home made is lam coverings.   THe
> oxygen deprivation and/or CO2 accumulation is unknown for these, and is
> probably in line with the results of the study you want to trash outright.
>
> > Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
> > May 20, 2020 at 4:33 PM
> > Masks could be helpful. The evidence is not great as Max alludes, but
> they
> > definitely do not increase transmission and look increasingly like they
> > provide benefit in preventing transmission. There are no harmful effects;
> > whoever wrote the O2 thing is full of BS.
> >
> > This was a recent summary, with refs:
> >
> >
> https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=137495654570048&id=100553591597588
> >
> > Facemasks, facemasks, facemasks! The transmission control strategy so
> > effective, safe, and nice, we say it thrice! (Now, with numbers!)
> >
> > FACEMASKS: SAFE FOR DOCTORS AND THOSE WHO PLAY THEM ON TV
> >
> > Much of the worry about masks centers on misunderstandings about carbon
> > dioxide.
> >
> > Ever had surgery? Did you notice all the fully alert, bustling, masked
> > people- many of whom wear masks for 24+ hours in a row (🙋🏼‍♀️been
> there,
> > got the scrub top). Medical types prefer to keep their wits about them.
> > Operating, making snappy decisions, flirting with the scrub nurse (that’s
> > for the TV docs)- it requires those masked people to be firing on all
> > cylinders. If wearing a mask led to re-inhalation of one’s own carbon
> > dioxide (called “hypercapnia”) and the resultant sleepiness and trouble
> > thinking as mask detractors claim, we’d all be wandering around maimed
> > from
> > zombified surgeons. And there would be way fewer baby showers for the
> > TV OR
> > staff.
> >
> > More specifically, the porous nature of the material used for both
> > medical-grade masks and cloth masks fully permits normal respiration. If
> > you can inhale through it, you can exhale through it. There is no
> trapping
> > and recirculating of air (otherwise it would blow up like a balloon when
> > you breathe out).
> >
> > LYING ABOUT HAVING AN OBSTRUCTIVE AIRWAY DISEASE IS LIKE BUYING A SERVICE
> > DOG VEST FOR YOUR IGUANA AND I DON’T WANT TO SIT NEXT TO YOUR IGUANA,
> > KAREN
> >
> > Also circulating around is a printable card citing the Americans with
> > Disabilities Act and stating the bearer does not need to comply with
> > masking, which anyone can print.
> >
> > Firstly, COPD patients are extremely vulnerable to viral infections and
> > could use the extra protection masking affords. Many people with mild,
> > well-controlled COPD can tolerate a mask just fine, since the added
> > resistance is minimal, but people with more severe disease cannot.
> >
> > Ever been on a flight with someone’s pet in a fake service dog vest? How
> > did lying work out? Don’t be an emotional support peacock.
> >
> > FACEMASKS: THEY’RE ABOUT YOUR FACE, BUT NOT AN ABOUT-FACE
> >
> > There is confusion about why initially masks were NOT recommended, but
> now
> > they are. In early March the world experienced a catastrophic shortage in
> > Personal Protective Equipment, most of which was made in China. Frontline
> > health care workers were barebacking it, despite caring for patients
> > suffering from a lethal infectious disease. Many became infected, and
> some
> > died. Hospitals rationed equipment like it was the elixir of life. We
> came
> > up with clever ways to reuse and sterilize masks. We all remembered
> fondly
> > the days when we just *threw the extra gloves which come out of the
> > box all
> > glommed together away* like we were glove billionaires or something.
> >
> > Against that backdrop the public was advised not to wear masks. That was
> > not because masks wer

Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Very few people outside hospitals wear or have access to surgical 
masks.   Most people are wearing home made is lam coverings.   THe 
oxygen deprivation and/or CO2 accumulation is unknown for these, and is 
probably in line with the results of the study you want to trash outright.



Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes 
May 20, 2020 at 4:33 PM
Masks could be helpful. The evidence is not great as Max alludes, but they
definitely do not increase transmission and look increasingly like they
provide benefit in preventing transmission. There are no harmful effects;
whoever wrote the O2 thing is full of BS.

This was a recent summary, with refs:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=137495654570048&id=100553591597588

Facemasks, facemasks, facemasks! The transmission control strategy so
effective, safe, and nice, we say it thrice! (Now, with numbers!)

FACEMASKS: SAFE FOR DOCTORS AND THOSE WHO PLAY THEM ON TV

Much of the worry about masks centers on misunderstandings about carbon
dioxide.

Ever had surgery? Did you notice all the fully alert, bustling, masked
people- many of whom wear masks for 24+ hours in a row (🙋🏼‍♀️been there,
got the scrub top). Medical types prefer to keep their wits about them.
Operating, making snappy decisions, flirting with the scrub nurse (that’s
for the TV docs)- it requires those masked people to be firing on all
cylinders. If wearing a mask led to re-inhalation of one’s own carbon
dioxide (called “hypercapnia”) and the resultant sleepiness and trouble
thinking as mask detractors claim, we’d all be wandering around maimed 
from
zombified surgeons. And there would be way fewer baby showers for the 
TV OR

staff.

More specifically, the porous nature of the material used for both
medical-grade masks and cloth masks fully permits normal respiration. If
you can inhale through it, you can exhale through it. There is no trapping
and recirculating of air (otherwise it would blow up like a balloon when
you breathe out).

LYING ABOUT HAVING AN OBSTRUCTIVE AIRWAY DISEASE IS LIKE BUYING A SERVICE
DOG VEST FOR YOUR IGUANA AND I DON’T WANT TO SIT NEXT TO YOUR IGUANA, 
KAREN


Also circulating around is a printable card citing the Americans with
Disabilities Act and stating the bearer does not need to comply with
masking, which anyone can print.

Firstly, COPD patients are extremely vulnerable to viral infections and
could use the extra protection masking affords. Many people with mild,
well-controlled COPD can tolerate a mask just fine, since the added
resistance is minimal, but people with more severe disease cannot.

Ever been on a flight with someone’s pet in a fake service dog vest? How
did lying work out? Don’t be an emotional support peacock.

FACEMASKS: THEY’RE ABOUT YOUR FACE, BUT NOT AN ABOUT-FACE

There is confusion about why initially masks were NOT recommended, but now
they are. In early March the world experienced a catastrophic shortage in
Personal Protective Equipment, most of which was made in China. Frontline
health care workers were barebacking it, despite caring for patients
suffering from a lethal infectious disease. Many became infected, and some
died. Hospitals rationed equipment like it was the elixir of life. We came
up with clever ways to reuse and sterilize masks. We all remembered fondly
the days when we just *threw the extra gloves which come out of the 
box all

glommed together away* like we were glove billionaires or something.

Against that backdrop the public was advised not to wear masks. That was
not because masks weren’t safe, effective, or a great idea. It was because
masks were RATIONED where they were needed most.

Now, things have opened up- medical masks are available again. Cloth face
coverings, which are insufficient for frontline health care work around
massive doses of virus, have been proven effective for the general public.
Masking is now strongly recommended. Nothing about the virus or our
understanding of it has changed.

YOUR MASK IS NOT A VIRUS CLUB MED

Some people have argued that breathing into your mask sprays it chock full
o’virus, and then you’ll reinfect yourself constantly, like some kind of
COVID Dutch oven. Firstly- anything that comes out of you was already in
you, and can’t make you sicker. It’s sort of like how eating your own arm
can’t make you gain weight. And also remember, coronaviruses can’t live
outside their host cell long. A trip outside into your mask is not a
relaxing day at the spa, it’s an event which results in likely viral
denaturing and degradation.

That being said, you should launder your cloth mask in hot water
frequently. And don’t handle anyone else’s, because then you could get
their virus, and don’t let them handle yours.

JUST LIKE LOADING THE DISHWASHER, THERE’S ONE RIGHT WAY TO WEAR A MASK

And that way is: over your mouth and nose. Not folded up on your chin. The
virus doesn’t burrow into your beard, so no need to protect it. That’s the
equivalent of frisbee-ing in the plates 

Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Masks could be helpful. The evidence is not great as Max alludes, but they
definitely do not increase transmission and look increasingly like they
provide benefit in preventing transmission. There are no harmful effects;
whoever wrote the O2 thing is full of BS.

This was a recent summary, with refs:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=137495654570048&id=100553591597588

Facemasks, facemasks, facemasks! The transmission control strategy so
effective, safe, and nice, we say it thrice! (Now, with numbers!)

FACEMASKS: SAFE FOR DOCTORS AND THOSE WHO PLAY THEM ON TV

Much of the worry about masks centers on misunderstandings about carbon
dioxide.

Ever had surgery? Did you notice all the fully alert, bustling, masked
people- many of whom wear masks for 24+ hours in a row (🙋🏼‍♀️been there,
got the scrub top). Medical types prefer to keep their wits about them.
Operating, making snappy decisions, flirting with the scrub nurse (that’s
for the TV docs)- it requires those masked people to be firing on all
cylinders. If wearing a mask led to re-inhalation of one’s own carbon
dioxide (called “hypercapnia”) and the resultant sleepiness and trouble
thinking as mask detractors claim, we’d all be wandering around maimed from
zombified surgeons. And there would be way fewer baby showers for the TV OR
staff.

More specifically, the porous nature of the material used for both
medical-grade masks and cloth masks fully permits normal respiration. If
you can inhale through it, you can exhale through it. There is no trapping
and recirculating of air (otherwise it would blow up like a balloon when
you breathe out).

LYING ABOUT HAVING AN OBSTRUCTIVE AIRWAY DISEASE IS LIKE BUYING A SERVICE
DOG VEST FOR YOUR IGUANA AND I DON’T WANT TO SIT NEXT TO YOUR IGUANA, KAREN

Also circulating around is a printable card citing the Americans with
Disabilities Act and stating the bearer does not need to comply with
masking, which anyone can print.

Firstly, COPD patients are extremely vulnerable to viral infections and
could use the extra protection masking affords. Many people with mild,
well-controlled COPD can tolerate a mask just fine, since the added
resistance is minimal, but people with more severe disease cannot.

Ever been on a flight with someone’s pet in a fake service dog vest? How
did lying work out? Don’t be an emotional support peacock.

FACEMASKS: THEY’RE ABOUT YOUR FACE, BUT NOT AN ABOUT-FACE

There is confusion about why initially masks were NOT recommended, but now
they are. In early March the world experienced a catastrophic shortage in
Personal Protective Equipment, most of which was made in China. Frontline
health care workers were barebacking it, despite caring for patients
suffering from a lethal infectious disease. Many became infected, and some
died. Hospitals rationed equipment like it was the elixir of life. We came
up with clever ways to reuse and sterilize masks. We all remembered fondly
the days when we just *threw the extra gloves which come out of the box all
glommed together away* like we were glove billionaires or something.

Against that backdrop the public was advised not to wear masks. That was
not because masks weren’t safe, effective, or a great idea. It was because
masks were RATIONED where they were needed most.

Now, things have opened up- medical masks are available again. Cloth face
coverings, which are insufficient for frontline health care work around
massive doses of virus, have been proven effective for the general public.
Masking is now strongly recommended. Nothing about the virus or our
understanding of it has changed.

YOUR MASK IS NOT A VIRUS CLUB MED

Some people have argued that breathing into your mask sprays it chock full
o’virus,  and then you’ll reinfect yourself constantly, like some kind of
COVID Dutch oven. Firstly- anything that comes out of you was already in
you, and can’t make you sicker. It’s sort of like how eating your own arm
can’t make you gain weight. And also remember, coronaviruses can’t live
outside their host cell long. A trip outside into your mask is not a
relaxing day at the spa, it’s an event which results in likely viral
denaturing and degradation.

That being said, you should launder your cloth mask in hot water
frequently. And don’t handle anyone else’s, because then you could get
their virus, and don’t let them handle yours.

JUST LIKE LOADING THE DISHWASHER, THERE’S ONE RIGHT WAY TO WEAR A MASK

And that way is: over your mouth and nose. Not folded up on your chin. The
virus doesn’t burrow into your beard, so no need to protect it. That’s the
equivalent of frisbee-ing in the plates into the bottom rack.

I FEEL FINE. NO, REALLY. WHY SHOULD I WEAR A MASK?

If you’re healthy and well you could easily be an asymptomatic case.
Remember up to 85% of transmission events are from people who feel well and
therefore don’t modify their behavior, so infect others. If you feel sick,
you should definitely wear a mask, to protect others (and you shouldn’t be
out a

Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Peter, here's a study that should bring you great comfort.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S092485792030145X?via%3Dihub

There is a very effective drug therapy that appears to be 100% effective at
preventing Wuhan Red Death from causing COVID-19.  Rather than lock-down
and enforced mask wearing, vulnerable populations and those who feel they
are at threat from the disease can use this drug therapy.

No more need for masks, social isolation, lock-down, contact tracing,
forced quarantines, and other oppressive measures.
-
Max
Charleston SC


On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 9:11 AM Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> There is no science in that "study" -- it's an opinion piece.
>
> There is absolutely NO evidence that wearing a face mask "concentrates"
> the virus and causes infection of the brain, the virus is already
> circulating in the bloodstream.
>
> If any of this was true surgeons would not wear masks in surgery.
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Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Peter, read the article, the mask lowers the blood oxygen level.  Or don't, and 
just accept that masks are not the answer.

Max Dillon
Charleston SC
May 19, 2020 10:34:50 PM Peter Frederick via Mercedes :

>   There is no "re-infection" due to a mask.  The virus is all over the 
> body, but only infects cells with the correct receptor protein.  It is 
> already in your nose and throat, that's where the droplets are produced that 
> permit transmission of the virus. 
>  
>  
>  The mask will slightly raise CO2 blood levels, which is annoying because 
> it makes you feel out of breath, but does not significantly lower blood 
> oxygen so far as I know. 
>  
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Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

There is no "re-infection" due to a mask.  The virus is all over the body, but 
only infects cells with the correct receptor protein.  It is already in your 
nose and throat, that's where the droplets are produced that permit 
transmission of the virus.

The mask will slightly raise CO2 blood levels, which is annoying because it 
makes you feel out of breath, but does not significantly lower blood oxygen so 
far as I know.
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Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[OK Don via Mercedes]

If you are spewing virii, I doubt that re-breathing thru the mask will be a
significant factor. What is significant is that you didn't spew those virii
at me.
There is a therapy (I forget the name) that restricts airflow to force you
to breath harder to get enough O2, thus strengthening your muscles that
cause you to breathe. Just suck harder - it's good for you. Non-issue.

On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 7:25 PM Craig via Mercedes 
wrote:

> On Tue, 19 May 2020 08:46:07 -0500 Peter Frederick via Mercedes
>  wrote:
>
> > "No, they wear masks during surgery to contain any sort of virus or
> > bacteria they may have from infecting the patient while they are opened
> > up for surgery. "
> >
> > Bingo -- and masks are highly effective at that, which invalidates the
> > opinion piece completely.
> >
> > The point of the mask is much more to prevent transmission from an
> > infected person to a non-infected person than it is to prevent a
> > non-infected person from getting infected.
>
> Yes, but your argument does not address the point of re-infection of the
> person wearing the mask nor the lowering of blood oxygen, which
> invalidate your argument.
>
>
> Craig
>
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-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Tue, 19 May 2020 08:46:07 -0500 Peter Frederick via Mercedes
 wrote:

> "No, they wear masks during surgery to contain any sort of virus or
> bacteria they may have from infecting the patient while they are opened
> up for surgery. "
> 
> Bingo -- and masks are highly effective at that, which invalidates the
> opinion piece completely.
> 
> The point of the mask is much more to prevent transmission from an
> infected person to a non-infected person than it is to prevent a
> non-infected person from getting infected.

Yes, but your argument does not address the point of re-infection of the
person wearing the mask nor the lowering of blood oxygen, which
invalidate your argument.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

"No, they wear masks during surgery to contain any sort of virus or bacteria 
they may have from infecting the patient while they are opened up for surgery. "

Bingo -- and masks are highly effective at that, which invalidates the opinion 
piece completely.

The point of the mask is much more to prevent transmission from an infected 
person to a non-infected person than it is to prevent a non-infected person 
from getting infected.

Cloth face masks have been standard procedure for reducing infections in this 
sort of disease, going back at least a couple centuries.  

Note that howling protests in San Francisco during the 1918 flu pandemic 
resulted in fewer people wearing masks -- and many more people getting sick and 
dying than in cities were people tended to not complain and put them on.

I dislike them intensely, but wear them anyway.  We even wear them at work if 
we are out of our normal work space.
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Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes]

No, they wear masks during surgery to contain any sort of virus or bacteria 
they may have from infecting the patient while they are opened up for surgery. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 19, 2020, at 8:11 AM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> There is no science in that "study" -- it's an opinion piece.  
> 
> There is absolutely NO evidence that wearing a face mask "concentrates" the 
> virus and causes infection of the brain, the virus is already circulating in 
> the bloodstream.
> 
> If any of this was true surgeons would not wear masks in surgery.
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> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

There is no science in that "study" -- it's an opinion piece.  

There is absolutely NO evidence that wearing a face mask "concentrates" the 
virus and causes infection of the brain, the virus is already circulating in 
the bloodstream.

If any of this was true surgeons would not wear masks in surgery.
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[MBZ] OT Study says: face masks are bad for you, don't protect you.

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Ok all you "believe the science" people, here's some science about wearing 
masks.

https://www.technocracy.news/blaylock-face-masks-pose-serious-risks-to-the-healthy/

Blaylock: Face Masks Pose Serious Risks To The Healthy

As for the scientific support for the use of face mask, a recent careful 
examination of the literature, in which 17 of the best studies were analyzed, 
concluded that, “ None of the studies established a conclusive relationship 
between mask/respirator use and protection against influenza infection.”1   
Keep in mind, no studies have been done to demonstrate that either a cloth mask 
or the N95 mask has any effect on transmission of the COVID-19 virus. Any 
recommendations, therefore, have to be based on studies of influenza virus 
transmission. And, as you have seen, there is no conclusive evidence of their 
efficiency in controlling flu virus transmission.

Max Dillon
Charleston SC

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