Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise. the right way
if you get laid off because the Government has fallen asleep at the wheel, watch out. Just one more incentive to get back off the dole. Note that paying taxes must _not_ be the gating condition for the franchise, but being supported by the men with the guns should. It's that simple. If they're collecting your salary at gunpoint then you don't get a vote. That's what makes it consent of the governed, not connivance of the governing. Fictions like taxing the money given out by the taxing authority are just there to obscure what's really going on. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
Been thinking about this right to vote thing for a while. Best I can come up with is that if you are on the public dole for more than 2 months of the previous year or are a dependent of someone on the public dole for more than 2 months of the previous year then you should not be allowed to vote. That does not include the verifiably disabled which verification also needs to be tightened up to not include the morbidly obese (might help them to loose a few pounds). Why let freeloaders vote for someone who will help them live the life they want at everyone else's expense. Manfred Who's wife told him it is dangerous for him to think. Wonder what she means by that? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
dole for more than 2 months of the previous year then you should not be allowed to vote. That does not include the verifiably disabled I would not be quite so generous. IMHO, dole == no vote, and I'm so sorry if that's a trouble. If there are loopholes, the natural tendency is to open them up, defeating the whole purpose. In fact, I _just_ might be convinced to add those on public salary to the same list! Isn't the federal government now the largest single employer in existence? Have they reached self-sustaining critical mass yet? Vote for Johnson, keep your job! -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
Max said... Also, nowhere in our (U.S.) constitution is there a right to vote. Not in the bill of rights, not in the articles. In other words (I think - someone correct me if I'm wrong), it would not take a constitutional amendment to change our current system, just a majority vote passed into law by a state legislature... - I can't believe you missed it...it's right there next to a woman's right to murder an unborn child, and the right for two beings to be married, regardless of anything. As far as the states being able to control their own voting processes, I think the Voting Rights Act speaks for that (Not that there's anything in the Constitution that authorizes THAT little gem of legislation)...oh, but it only applies to SOUTHERN states, so I guess the northern states could do it. Heinlein's approach to suffrage is a lot like John Stuart Mill's... To quote Supreme Court Justice Salmon P. Chase, who served from 1864 to 1873, State sovereignty died at Appomattox. Royce - an unreconstructed Southerner ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
OK, you went from free speach to meddling there :=). Actually, I am considered totally disabled, but what I live on is the pension fund I paid into the years I worked and the SS disability I paid into all the years I worked. I'd have to argue about that being a public gift to me from the taxpayers. And I do vote. BillR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Cathey Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 9:11 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise dole for more than 2 months of the previous year then you should not be allowed to vote. That does not include the verifiably disabled I would not be quite so generous. IMHO, dole == no vote, and I'm so sorry if that's a trouble. If there are loopholes, the natural tendency is to open them up, defeating the whole purpose. In fact, I _just_ might be convinced to add those on public salary to the same list! Isn't the federal government now the largest single employer in existence? Have they reached self-sustaining critical mass yet? Vote for Johnson, keep your job! -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
Jim wrote Isn't the federal government now the largest single employer in existence? Yep - something like 54% of employees get their pay from some form of govt. BTW, if someone is disabled and being given back some of the money paid *to* the govt over a 40+ working lifetime means no vote I'd have a problem with that. IMO when the govt takes money from us we are owed something in return. If they had not taken the money in the 1st place I could have put it into savings and not need SS Disability Insurance - which I had no choice but to fund nor do I have a choice of how it is invested. The dirty secret about why they did not want to see us get the ability to manage our own SS savings (a measley 5% IIRC) is because there is no money - they spend it as fast as it comes in. And they'd rather not admit it because it would affect the national debt which affects all kinds of things. Instead of the US being $5 Trillion in debt it's more like $20 trillion --more than the value of everything in the US. Sad, very sad. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 9:10 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise dole for more than 2 months of the previous year then you should not be allowed to vote. That does not include the verifiably disabled I would not be quite so generous. IMHO, dole == no vote, and I'm so sorry if that's a trouble. If there are loopholes, the natural tendency is to open them up, defeating the whole purpose. In fact, I _just_ might be convinced to add those on public salary to the same list! Isn't the federal government now the largest single employer in existence? Have they reached self-sustaining critical mass yet? Vote for Johnson, keep your job! -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
I still prefer the votes based on taxes paid - if millionaire are truely not paying their share (which I doubt) they will not have any votes - same for the lower 3rd of the public - this way, only the middle class will get any votes. Also, if people are civic minded and wish to elect those officials good for business they'll report as much income as possible to get the most votes. Those with no income would get no votes but would have some incentive to join the ranks of taxpayers. BTW, those on disability income pay taxes on the benefits - BTDT. It depends on some circumstances but it happens. This way we get to pay tax twice (Yip) once when we are paid, then again when the money is returned to us. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: MG [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 9:06 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise Been thinking about this right to vote thing for a while. Best I can come up with is that if you are on the public dole for more than 2 months of the previous year or are a dependent of someone on the public dole for more than 2 months of the previous year then you should not be allowed to vote. That does not include the verifiably disabled which verification also needs to be tightened up to not include the morbidly obese (might help them to loose a few pounds). Why let freeloaders vote for someone who will help them live the life they want at everyone else's expense. Manfred Who's wife told him it is dangerous for him to think. Wonder what she means by that? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
Rich wrote never did understand why you need a SS card when you have a passport and It's because there's a place on a form the DMV clerk is filling out. If it says SS # there's no other number or piece of paper it will accept. And there's no amount of logic or reasoning that can make that blank space on the form go away. You're not dealing with people you have to fight a blank place on a computer screen with a place for 8 numbers. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 1:34 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise I took my daughter 3X to get her driver learner permit. She had a passport and a birth certificate, but they still demanded a Social Security card, which we could not find so had to go to the SS office to order up another one. They gave her an official temporary paper that said she had the number but the DL office would not take that. So a week or so later the real card came (it would have been easier to go to the flea market and just buy one like the guest workers do, but I digress) and we went time #3. I never did understand why you need a SS card when you have a passport and birth cert (which you have to have to get the passport). I think it is all a big circle jerk, probably aimed at weeding out the guest workers, most of whom don't appear to make the effort to get a DL anyway so it is rather pointless. Here in TX you can use your DL as a voter ID, or your voter registration card, which you can get when you get a DL. Anyway, the effort for the driving privilege was equivalent to the effort for a voter registration (which you get by default), and in some ways I guess it was A Good Thing, as it really validated that she was a citizen. Here in TX I did get to vote twice for Hillary!, stayin alive, stayin alive... but all the delegates went for Barry O anyway, even though she won more votes, so I guess it did not matter. Barry O, Selected Not Elected! --R tom savage wrote: Rich Thomas wrote: I would trade him for a dozen of the poor citizens in Indiana. That is just so lame. They ought to be disenfranchised. While I agree with everything you've written, Indiana has in fact effectively disenfranchised thousands of poor and Amish via the Voter ID Law. http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/28/scotus.voter.id/ My mom tried to get a driver's license and register to vote there last year. Sorry ma'am, but your birth certificate and Social Security card show a different (maiden) name so no suffrage for you. Oh, and this West Virginia driver's license you showed me isn't valid here, either, as you can't prove that you're really you. Next! It took a while, but eventually they invented new middle and last names for her and issued the proper papers. Scary. Tom ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
BTW, if someone is disabled and being given back some of the money paid *to* the govt over a 40+ working lifetime means no vote I'd have a problem with that. IMO when the govt takes money from us we are owed something in Now we're getting into what the dole _is_. Gets a little fuzzy there, in the case of disability or what SS was intended to be (not what it is). Regardless, my basic principle is that IF you are funded at gunpoint, you DON'T get to vote to perpetuate the system. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise. the right way
Oooh yes, America the land of the free, shining beacon of Democracy, leader of the free world but if you get laid off because the Government has fallen asleep at the wheel, watch out. I hear they are building concentration camps (and calling them trailer parks) to lock up all those bludgers and keep them away from good, decent folk in the gated estates who vote the right way. Obviously the voting ban should extend to those who don't pay enough taxes, unless they can prove that the reason they pay low taxes is that they have a clever accountant who moves the money through various holding companies and off shore accounts. Of course if you are a student, then there is no vote for you, unless you work part time and pay a certain amount of taxes. Although my preferences is to put those long haired hippy types into the Army so they can be sent overseas to teach other nations all about democracy the American way, along the lines of do what we say or get blown up. Now because Government employees, like soldiers, don't actually pay taxes they should be disenfranchised. It seems fair that they die for their country but don't get to have a say in who runs the place. However to simplify all this I would suggest that only registered republican party members have the right to vote, naturally there would have to be a screening process to ensure no undesirables obtain membership, perhaps a joining fee of $10K (which would be fully tax deductible) would deter those sub humans. Obersturmfuehrer Hendrik who is off to a meeting of 'Decent Whites for Decent Rights' at which we will be burning a few books, practicing window smashing and swapping tips on how to get blood off jackboots Seriously though, it saddens me to see this sort of rubbish right next to posts commemorating the D-Day landings, which where essentially designed to liberate the people of western Europe and return the right to vote to them, regardless of their economic circumstances. As opposed to having the Soviets do the liberating and then enforce their form of Government. I do believe that Nazi Germany would have lost the war D-Day or not. Jim Cathey wrote: dole for more than 2 months of the previous year then you should not be allowed to vote. That does not include the verifiably disabled I would not be quite so generous. IMHO, dole == no vote, and I'm so sorry if that's a trouble. If there are loopholes, the natural tendency is to open them up, defeating the whole purpose. In fact, I _just_ might be convinced to add those on public salary to the same list! Isn't the federal government now the largest single employer in existence? Have they reached self-sustaining critical mass yet? Vote for Johnson, keep your job! -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
All that I do not consider as a dole. You paid in and the money coming out of the fund should be coming from the earnings on the investments that were made with it. You are also not disabled due to being too fat and not wanting to do anything but get money from the government for doing nothing and never having paid any money in to provide the principle for your retirement pay. There is a world of difference there! Now some would argue that you may live a few more years if you did loose a little weight, but then again I might live a few more years if I would just gain a few pounds. Too bad we can't just do a trade like with commodities or something. :-) Manfred Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2008 12:48:39 -0400 From: Bill R [EMAIL PROTECTED] OK, you went from free speach to meddling there :=). Actually, I am considered totally disabled, but what I live on is the pension fund I paid into the years I worked and the SS disability I paid into all the years I worked. I'd have to argue about that being a public gift to me from the taxpayers. And I do vote. BillR ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
Rich Thomas wrote: I would trade him for a dozen of the poor citizens in Indiana. That is just so lame. They ought to be disenfranchised. While I agree with everything you've written, Indiana has in fact effectively disenfranchised thousands of poor and Amish via the Voter ID Law. http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/28/scotus.voter.id/ My mom tried to get a driver's license and register to vote there last year. Sorry ma'am, but your birth certificate and Social Security card show a different (maiden) name so no suffrage for you. Oh, and this West Virginia driver's license you showed me isn't valid here, either, as you can't prove that you're really you. Next! It took a while, but eventually they invented new middle and last names for her and issued the proper papers. Scary. Tom ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
I took my daughter 3X to get her driver learner permit. She had a passport and a birth certificate, but they still demanded a Social Security card, which we could not find so had to go to the SS office to order up another one. They gave her an official temporary paper that said she had the number but the DL office would not take that. So a week or so later the real card came (it would have been easier to go to the flea market and just buy one like the guest workers do, but I digress) and we went time #3. I never did understand why you need a SS card when you have a passport and birth cert (which you have to have to get the passport). I think it is all a big circle jerk, probably aimed at weeding out the guest workers, most of whom don't appear to make the effort to get a DL anyway so it is rather pointless. Here in TX you can use your DL as a voter ID, or your voter registration card, which you can get when you get a DL. Anyway, the effort for the driving privilege was equivalent to the effort for a voter registration (which you get by default), and in some ways I guess it was A Good Thing, as it really validated that she was a citizen. Here in TX I did get to vote twice for Hillary!, stayin alive, stayin alive... but all the delegates went for Barry O anyway, even though she won more votes, so I guess it did not matter. Barry O, Selected Not Elected! --R tom savage wrote: Rich Thomas wrote: I would trade him for a dozen of the poor citizens in Indiana. That is just so lame. They ought to be disenfranchised. While I agree with everything you've written, Indiana has in fact effectively disenfranchised thousands of poor and Amish via the Voter ID Law. http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/28/scotus.voter.id/ My mom tried to get a driver's license and register to vote there last year. Sorry ma'am, but your birth certificate and Social Security card show a different (maiden) name so no suffrage for you. Oh, and this West Virginia driver's license you showed me isn't valid here, either, as you can't prove that you're really you. Next! It took a while, but eventually they invented new middle and last names for her and issued the proper papers. Scary. Tom ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
I've said this before and I'll say it again, a government that only enfranchises property owners and the rich is what your American forfathers RAN AWAY FROM! (And religious crap) Why some people want to aet the clock back 400 years is beyond meit's be done. Zedic On 05/06/2008, OK Don [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gov'mnt of the rich, by the rich, for the rich - aren't many of us who would have a say in anything, other than shelling out the cash to keep the electorate in power. On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 8:44 PM, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like to see voting based on taxes paid - say, 1 vote for every $1K paid. The more paid, the more votes. Not a bad way to limit their dip into your wallet. The most affected having the most say in it. What a concept... -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. -Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain '90 300D (Rattled), '92 300D (Saber), ' '81 240D (Gramps), '97 Ply Grand Voyager (Vincent van-go) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
I've said this before and I'll say it again, a government that only enfranchises property owners and the rich is what your American forefathers RAN AWAY FROM! (And religious crap) Interesting, considering that America's original franchise was limited to male (probably white) property owners... -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
And then black people got 3/5 of a vote, more than Florida and Michigan people --R Jim Cathey wrote: I've said this before and I'll say it again, a government that only enfranchises property owners and the rich is what your American forefathers RAN AWAY FROM! (And religious crap) Interesting, considering that America's original franchise was limited to male (probably white) property owners... -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
Since you brought up this topic, poor citizens - regardless of skin color - who lack proper documentation are disenfranchised in Indiana and other R-controlled states that want to tilt the deck in their party's favor. Of course, this isn't political, because the US Supremes blessed the screening process... On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And then black people got 3/5 of a vote, more than Florida and Michigan people --R Jim Cathey wrote: I've said this before and I'll say it again, a government that only enfranchises property owners and the rich is what your American forefathers RAN AWAY FROM! (And religious crap) Interesting, considering that America's original franchise was limited to male (probably white) property owners... -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
Rich Thomas wrote: And then black people got 3/5 of a vote, more than Florida and Michigan people I think that was 3/5 of a person for purposes of sizing congressional districts. I don't recall either the slaves or their owners being able to vote the 3/5. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
That is just such a non-starter and so far beneath you -- if someone can't make even the most minimal effort to do what is needed to be a responsible citizen then you should not even be allowed close to a polling place. I bet if you offered free stuff with a valid voter ID you would see people scrambling to go down to the DMV or courthouse or wherever to get some kind of ID. The folks looking for the gummint help don't seem to have a problem getting down to the office to sign up. But offer the benefits of citizenship in our great country, with a very minimal effort, and the effort is too much. I can't believe anyone with half a brain could even consider that to be too hard. Tell that to the people who sneak across the border and have all kinds of troubles (whether you agree with that or not, that takes a lot more effort than going down to get an ID) trying to improve their lives, or the people who have been victims of outstanding governments like Somalia, or North Korea, or Cuba, or other sh*tholes of the world, who risk their lives (and often lose them) to come here and be part of our country. Or the parents and grandparents of my friends who arrived here off a boat with a suitcase and about $3 in their pockets, no knowledge of the language or much of anything else of our country, and worked their asses off to make a good life and raise decent families. Talk about poor -- they were poor in everything but ambition and appreciation, commodities that you would be hard-pressed to find in a lot of those disenfranchised in Indiana. (Disclosure -- I grew up in Indiana, never found voting to be much of an issue, and getting on the roles was so minimal that I don't even remember having to do it, or what I did.) My grandparents were poor citizens -- there were times when their kids did not have shoes to wear, or decent clothes, and they went without so their kids could have some little something, but my mom and dad and their brothers and sisters all worked hard, served their country when they could, got educated, and believe it or not they found the wherewithal to vote in every election that came along (they hitched the mules to a wagon and rode a long time to do that, and walked when they did not have horses or mules because they were too poor to have that luxury), because they believed that to be their duty as a citizen. Even in bad times (being a dirt farmer in the Depression was probably a bit harder than going to get your voter ID) they were proud of their opportunities. I have gained the benefits of their efforts, and I have the highest respect and appreciation for them and what they have provided for me and everyone else by their efforts. They rightfully laugh at the stupid lazy people who won't make the minimal effort, and treat them with the disdain they deserve. Too difficult to ride the bus downtown (or walk, or ride a bike), show your papers, and get an ID? Tell that to the Honduran kid I met who walked, hitched, and whatever else over 2000 miles through fairly hostile territory to come here to work his ass off in our great country, and to be the kind of person who would be a wonderful citizen. I would trade him for a dozen of the poor citizens in Indiana. That is just so lame. They ought to be disenfranchised. --R andrew strasfogel wrote: Since you brought up this topic, poor citizens - regardless of skin color - who lack proper documentation are disenfranchised in Indiana and other R-controlled states that want to tilt the deck in their party's favor. Of course, this isn't political, because the US Supremes blessed the screening process... On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And then black people got 3/5 of a vote, more than Florida and Michigan people --R Jim Cathey wrote: I've said this before and I'll say it again, a government that only enfranchises property owners and the rich is what your American forefathers RAN AWAY FROM! (And religious crap) Interesting, considering that America's original franchise was limited to male (probably white) property owners... -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
Yeah, you;re right - and I feel the same way. Voting is a HUGE privilege of this country. The fact that idiots can't be bothered to learn a little about the candidates and issues (difficult when the media doesn;t provide non-partisan info) and then go to the polling station and vote doesn;t mean those of us who *do* vote intelligently should need legal encouragement. Besides, we have enough laws. Make that *more* than enough. * = See Below Actually, I'm also against thins that make voting easier - like internet voting, etc - it's already easy - and if people can't exercize a little mobility to go to a local elem school and fill in a circle with a pencil just give me their vote and I'll find someone to use their vote on. ;-) Hey!! Now that's an idea! All the people who do not care to vote can just give me their votes and I'll take care of the rest - Then, they're not bothered with that voting thing, the % turnout will go up and I'll be able to elect the one I want. ;-) Looks like a winner to me! Just call me King Larry/ * ya know., I'll bet congress and the country would be better off if they only worked 1 year out of 4.. We have so many laws now seems like we ought to finally have *enough*! Let em stay home and play with the little woman - or little man as the case may be) and stop making more freakin laws! Actually that makes a good campaign slogan - . *No More Laws* !! ;-) Gotta go gang - s Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise z LarryT wrote: How would you feel about mandatory voting unless sick or injured? The same way I feel about all efforts to encourage idiots and the lazy to vote: No! The last thing we need is people who don't know or care about what they are voting for to actually go to the polls. The ones who care and study the issues will be there no matter what. Voting is a right, not a duty. Like all rights, it comes with responsibility, namely, you are responsible for making an informed decision. For instance, I usually don't pay attention to the boards of our multiple state universities. It would be a horrible breach of duty for me to go into the polls, play eeny meeny miny moe and pick a Regent for the University of Michigan. That's why I feel there should be no mention of political parties at the election sites in general elections. If you want to vote for all the candidates for party x instead of looking at the candidates as individuals, then it's your responsibility to know who they are and vote for them. There should be no option on the ballot for a straight ticket. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
I understand - no one in their right man would run for national office. Seeing the candidates you can see I'm right. OK - you said Maybe when I run for Judge, I will call you up to be my campaign manager I'm your man!! ;-) Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Donald Snook [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise Larry wrote: Ding, Ding, Ding!! We have a winner - some one who has read and understands the Constituton - Gang we have our write-in candidate. Sorry to do this to you - but we really need someone like you - No thanks, Larry. I don't want the job. Maybe when I run for Judge, I will call you up to be my campaign manager, but for now, I will vote for McCain. I would rather vote for Former Senator Jack Danforth, but he is just as old as McCain and is not running - which might make him the perfect candidate. Donald H. Snook ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
Hey!! Now that's an idea! All the people who do not care to vote can just give me their votes and I'll take care of the rest - Then, they're not bothered with that voting thing, the % turnout will go up and I'll be able to elect the one I want. ;-) Looks like a winner to me! Sorry, the position Democratic Party is already taken. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
Way to go Rich!! I could almost see the smoke coming from your keyboard! You could be a speech writer! Ora candidate? ;-) Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 11:47 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise That is just such a non-starter and so far beneath you -- if someone can't make even the most minimal effort to do what is needed to be a responsible citizen then you should not even be allowed close to a polling place. I bet if you offered free stuff with a valid voter ID you would see people scrambling to go down to the DMV or courthouse or wherever to get some kind of ID. The folks looking for the gummint help don't seem to have a problem getting down to the office to sign up. But offer the benefits of citizenship in our great country, with a very minimal effort, and the effort is too much. I can't believe anyone with half a brain could even consider that to be too hard. Tell that to the people who sneak across the border and have all kinds of troubles (whether you agree with that or not, that takes a lot more effort than going down to get an ID) trying to improve their lives, or the people who have been victims of outstanding governments like Somalia, or North Korea, or Cuba, or other sh*tholes of the world, who risk their lives (and often lose them) to come here and be part of our country. Or the parents and grandparents of my friends who arrived here off a boat with a suitcase and about $3 in their pockets, no knowledge of the language or much of anything else of our country, and worked their asses off to make a good life and raise decent families. Talk about poor -- they were poor in everything but ambition and appreciation, commodities that you would be hard-pressed to find in a lot of those disenfranchised in Indiana. (Disclosure -- I grew up in Indiana, never found voting to be much of an issue, and getting on the roles was so minimal that I don't even remember having to do it, or what I did.) My grandparents were poor citizens -- there were times when their kids did not have shoes to wear, or decent clothes, and they went without so their kids could have some little something, but my mom and dad and their brothers and sisters all worked hard, served their country when they could, got educated, and believe it or not they found the wherewithal to vote in every election that came along (they hitched the mules to a wagon and rode a long time to do that, and walked when they did not have horses or mules because they were too poor to have that luxury), because they believed that to be their duty as a citizen. Even in bad times (being a dirt farmer in the Depression was probably a bit harder than going to get your voter ID) they were proud of their opportunities. I have gained the benefits of their efforts, and I have the highest respect and appreciation for them and what they have provided for me and everyone else by their efforts. They rightfully laugh at the stupid lazy people who won't make the minimal effort, and treat them with the disdain they deserve. Too difficult to ride the bus downtown (or walk, or ride a bike), show your papers, and get an ID? Tell that to the Honduran kid I met who walked, hitched, and whatever else over 2000 miles through fairly hostile territory to come here to work his ass off in our great country, and to be the kind of person who would be a wonderful citizen. I would trade him for a dozen of the poor citizens in Indiana. That is just so lame. They ought to be disenfranchised. --R andrew strasfogel wrote: Since you brought up this topic, poor citizens - regardless of skin color - who lack proper documentation are disenfranchised in Indiana and other R-controlled states that want to tilt the deck in their party's favor. Of course, this isn't political, because the US Supremes blessed the screening process... On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Rich Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And then black people got 3/5 of a vote, more than Florida and Michigan people --R Jim Cathey wrote: I've said this before and I'll say it again, a government that only enfranchises property owners and the rich is what your American forefathers RAN AWAY FROM! (And religious crap) Interesting, considering that America's original franchise was limited to male (probably white) property owners... -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go
[MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
Robert Heinlein's idea in Starship Troopers caught my fancy as well. A way around being disenfranchised by individual circumstances was to have kids and strongly encourage them to serve in the military and hope that you can pass on enough wisdom so their votes are 'your' votes (and also pass enough skill / luck so they survive their tour of duty). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Heinlein Another scheme which has been tried in England was that only landowners could vote. I think that what happened is that they would vote to protect their (1) power base and (2) economic power, and eventually they and their system was sacked. 'Tis a fascinating subject to study, really a combination of history and economics and social science (and religion). Also, no where in our (U.S.) constitution is there a right to vote. Not in the bill of rights, not in the articles. In other words (I think - someone correct me if I'm wrong), it would not take a constitutional amendment to change our current system, just a majority vote passed into law by a state legislature... Max Dillon, digest lurker '87 300TD 309k miles Charleston SC -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3896 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20080605/4986f475/attachment.bin ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
Max wrote: Also, no where in our (U.S.) constitution is there a right to vote. Not in the bill of rights, not in the articles. In other words (I think - someone correct me if I'm wrong), it would not take a constitutional amendment to change our current system, just a majority vote passed into law by a state legislature... That is an oversimplification. The Constitution requires that the people's representatives be elected by the people. Also, The 19th amendment says that The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex. The 15th Amendment provides that 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude. The 26th Amendment provides that: 1. The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age. That is three different references to the Right to Vote which are all a part of the constitution. Donald H. Snook ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
I'd like to see voting based on taxes paid - say, 1 vote for every $1K paid. The more paid, the more votes. To me, it seems the people whose money is being spent on many things should have the greatest affect on who is controlling the purse strings -- but it'll never happen - Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Dillon,Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN Charleston SC J63 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 10:06 AM Subject: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise Robert Heinlein's idea in Starship Troopers caught my fancy as well. A way around being disenfranchised by individual circumstances was to have kids and strongly encourage them to serve in the military and hope that you can pass on enough wisdom so their votes are 'your' votes (and also pass enough skill / luck so they survive their tour of duty). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Heinlein Another scheme which has been tried in England was that only landowners could vote. I think that what happened is that they would vote to protect their (1) power base and (2) economic power, and eventually they and their system was sacked. 'Tis a fascinating subject to study, really a combination of history and economics and social science (and religion). Also, no where in our (U.S.) constitution is there a right to vote. Not in the bill of rights, not in the articles. In other words (I think - someone correct me if I'm wrong), it would not take a constitutional amendment to change our current system, just a majority vote passed into law by a state legislature... Max Dillon, digest lurker '87 300TD 309k miles Charleston SC -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3896 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20080605/4986f475/attachment.bin ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
Ding, Ding, Ding!! We have a winner - some one who has read and understands the Constituton - Gang we have our write-in candidate. Sorry to do this to you - but we really need somone like you - Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Donald Snook [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 11:26 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise Max wrote: Also, no where in our (U.S.) constitution is there a right to vote. Not in the bill of rights, not in the articles. In other words (I think - someone correct me if I'm wrong), it would not take a constitutional amendment to change our current system, just a majority vote passed into law by a state legislature... That is an oversimplification. The Constitution requires that the people's representatives be elected by the people. Also, The 19th amendment says that The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex. The 15th Amendment provides that 1. The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude. The 26th Amendment provides that: 1. The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age. That is three different references to the Right to Vote which are all a part of the constitution. Donald H. Snook ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
Ver dangerous Larry but at least the corporations influence would decline...especially those in Delaware. I say outlaw ALL LOBBYISTS and rescind the Supreme Court ruling that gave the corporations the same voice/rights as citizens. Perhaps a Walmart discount coupon would get more people to actually partake in their democracy. A 37% turnout is hardly an acceptable representation of the people. Zedic total leftie thug ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
How would you feel about mandatory voting unless sick or injured? I;m sure there are other reasons not to vote - but I agree 37% is disgaceful for the greatest democracy in the world. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise Ver dangerous Larry but at least the corporations influence would decline...especially those in Delaware. I say outlaw ALL LOBBYISTS and rescind the Supreme Court ruling that gave the corporations the same voice/rights as citizens. Perhaps a Walmart discount coupon would get more people to actually partake in their democracy. A 37% turnout is hardly an acceptable representation of the people. Zedic total leftie thug ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
On 05/06/2008, LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How would you feel about mandatory voting unless sick or injured? I;m sure there are other reasons not to vote - but I agree 37% is disgaceful for the greatest democracy in the world. Were you intending to use irony there Larry? Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
We could always go with the Cuban system [of the time I was there] with block chairmen and so on. The low voter turnout is a frustration, but then those who don't bother to vote probably would not be able to vote on issues - and we would end up with the one who looked bes on TV ... wait a minute ... BillR -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of LarryT Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 12:01 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise How would you feel about mandatory voting unless sick or injured? I;m sure there are other reasons not to vote - but I agree 37% is disgaceful for the greatest democracy in the world. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise Ver dangerous Larry but at least the corporations influence would decline...especially those in Delaware. I say outlaw ALL LOBBYISTS and rescind the Supreme Court ruling that gave the corporations the same voice/rights as citizens. Perhaps a Walmart discount coupon would get more people to actually partake in their democracy. A 37% turnout is hardly an acceptable representation of the people. Zedic total leftie thug ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
LarryT wrote: How would you feel about mandatory voting unless sick or injured? The same way I feel about all efforts to encourage idiots and the lazy to vote: No! The last thing we need is people who don't know or care about what they are voting for to actually go to the polls. The ones who care and study the issues will be there no matter what. Voting is a right, not a duty. Like all rights, it comes with responsibility, namely, you are responsible for making an informed decision. For instance, I usually don't pay attention to the boards of our multiple state universities. It would be a horrible breach of duty for me to go into the polls, play eeny meeny miny moe and pick a Regent for the University of Michigan. That's why I feel there should be no mention of political parties at the election sites in general elections. If you want to vote for all the candidates for party x instead of looking at the candidates as individuals, then it's your responsibility to know who they are and vote for them. There should be no option on the ballot for a straight ticket. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
Larry wrote: Ding, Ding, Ding!! We have a winner - some one who has read and understands the Constituton - Gang we have our write-in candidate. Sorry to do this to you - but we really need someone like you - No thanks, Larry. I don't want the job. Maybe when I run for Judge, I will call you up to be my campaign manager, but for now, I will vote for McCain. I would rather vote for Former Senator Jack Danforth, but he is just as old as McCain and is not running - which might make him the perfect candidate. Donald H. Snook ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
No! This would take away my Right to Vote. Pete, who votes because he's interested and has a Right to. -- Original message -- From: LarryT [EMAIL PROTECTED] How would you feel about mandatory voting unless sick or injured? I;m sure there are other reasons not to vote - but I agree 37% is disgaceful for the greatest democracy in the world. Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net 800-583-8601 Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs - Original Message - From: Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2008 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise Ver dangerous Larry but at least the corporations influence would decline...especially those in Delaware. I say outlaw ALL LOBBYISTS and rescind the Supreme Court ruling that gave the corporations the same voice/rights as citizens. Perhaps a Walmart discount coupon would get more people to actually partake in their democracy. A 37% turnout is hardly an acceptable representation of the people. Zedic total leftie thug ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
Donald Snook wrote: I would rather vote for Former Senator Jack Danforth, Heck, given the current mainstream choices, I'd settle for Danforth Quayle and/or Albert Gore Jr. I really have hopes that this is the year the Kleptocrat Party does some permanent damage to itself, as its' Repugnant and Demonrat wings give us no other choice than to find somebody else to vote for. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
Sister Bluebird flying high above, Shine your wings forward to the sun. Hide the myst'ries of life on your way. Though you've seen them, please don't say a word. What you don't know, I have never heard. Starship Trooper, go sailing on by, Catch my soul, catch the very light. Hide the moment from my eager eyes. Though you've seen them, please don't tell a soul. What you can't see, can't be very whole. On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 10:06 AM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN Charleston SC J63 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert Heinlein's idea in Starship Troopers caught my fancy as well. A way around being disenfranchised by individual circumstances was to have kids and strongly encourage them to serve in the military and hope that you can pass on enough wisdom so their votes are 'your' votes (and also pass enough skill / luck so they survive their tour of duty). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Heinlein Another scheme which has been tried in England was that only landowners could vote. I think that what happened is that they would vote to protect their (1) power base and (2) economic power, and eventually they and their system was sacked. 'Tis a fascinating subject to study, really a combination of history and economics and social science (and religion). Also, no where in our (U.S.) constitution is there a right to vote. Not in the bill of rights, not in the articles. In other words (I think - someone correct me if I'm wrong), it would not take a constitutional amendment to change our current system, just a majority vote passed into law by a state legislature... Max Dillon, digest lurker '87 300TD 309k miles Charleston SC -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3896 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20080605/4986f475/attachment.bin ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
Max wrote: Donald, thanks for correcting me. There is no right to vote in the ORIGINAL constitution nor in the bill of rights, but there are some amendments and those amendments that say it is illegal to restrict voting based on sex/race/previous condition of servitude/age (after age 18) . . . So, if I'm looking at this right, a voter registration process can be whatever a state wants it to be, as long as it doesn't get crossed up with those amendments and doesn't violate the state's own laws. Yes, states have the power to regulate voting guidelines unless the federal government has pre-empted them. So, Texas could not say that Hispanics cannot vote (for example). Also, I am confused by your terminology. The Bill of Rights is not part of the Original constitution. They are the first ten amendments. At any rate, I think your point was that the states can regulate voting (pursuant to the Tenth Amendment)and that is, in general, a correct statement as long as it is not in an area where the federal law preempts state law. That was the whole point of Bush v. Gore. Florida state law governed how votes would be counted. The Supreme Court found that the way the count was going actually violated the Equal Protection Clause. So, it was an area in which the federal government had preempted the state's power. Donald H. Snook ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
Perhaps a Walmart discount coupon would get more people to actually partake in their democracy. A 37% turnout is hardly an acceptable representation of the people. Heck no! I want to make it HARDER to vote, not easier. Only committed, passionate people need apply, in my view. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
I'd like to see voting based on taxes paid - say, 1 vote for every $1K paid. The more paid, the more votes. Not a bad way to limit their dip into your wallet. The most affected having the most say in it. What a concept... -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT alternative forms of voter franchise
Gov'mnt of the rich, by the rich, for the rich - aren't many of us who would have a say in anything, other than shelling out the cash to keep the electorate in power. On Thu, Jun 5, 2008 at 8:44 PM, Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd like to see voting based on taxes paid - say, 1 vote for every $1K paid. The more paid, the more votes. Not a bad way to limit their dip into your wallet. The most affected having the most say in it. What a concept... -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. -Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain '90 300D (Rattled), '92 300D (Saber), ' '81 240D (Gramps), '97 Ply Grand Voyager (Vincent van-go) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
