Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
On Apr 27, 2015 10:09 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: And we live in a big 'ole country with lots of different places. Here we've got lots of water while you've got little. Here were there is history stuff is close together. I know I'm late to the party, just wanted to add the data point that my manager uses a Leaf exclusively, a 30-something mile each way commute (all highway), and a 110V charger at home. He had some range anxiety over winter - he was approaching 10% when he got home, and couldn't charge quickly enough to get back to 100% by the morning - but as it has warmed up he says he's closer to 40%. Coincidentally I asked him about it yesterday, he is still very happy with the car. For him it was a purely financial decision, he's not committed to electric one way or the other - he just took the lease deal because it was a cheap way to commute. Best, Tim might possibly maybe get to work on the SDLs today, if the rain passes ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 15:02:38 + (UTC) Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I made a quick trip to the airport two days ago, in freeway traffic at 70mph, starting with a full charge and 28 miles later arrived at the airport with a total of 8 miles available showing on the remaining fuel meter ... Put the car in my hanger and plugged it in to the available 110V service and after only 18 hrs of charge on 110 it was back up to 85% charge.. so I drove it home [house in town] on city streets only, no AC on, no speed above 35 mph... arrived with a bit over 39% charge remaining I'm surprised to hear about 28 miles. We drove about 10 miles up a big hill and back down made enough power that the car only showed about 1% drop in capacity. Grant, It sounds like the battery in the one your friend has needs to be replaced. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
Grant, No worries, cheap gas has killed the electrics and hybrids. Nobody is buying them anymore, SUV is back baby! http://time.com/money/3827218/electric-car-sales-cheap-gas/ - Max Charleston SC On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 11:50 AM, G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I raise this line of question in the chain of transportation logic. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
Yeah, but for how long? All it takes is the Iran deal falling apart for oil pries to rebound. On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 4:01 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Grant, No worries, cheap gas has killed the electrics and hybrids. Nobody is buying them anymore, SUV is back baby! http://time.com/money/3827218/electric-car-sales-cheap-gas/ - Max Charleston SC On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 11:50 AM, G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I raise this line of question in the chain of transportation logic. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
I raise this line of question in the chain of transportation logic. The weak link in civilization of modern living is the power grid. Parts of the grid are now over 100 years old and in very poor condition, in some places critical condition. While power companies increase rates, nothing is planned to repair or rebuild the failing transmission grid for power. For example, the supply of major transformers is critical. If one fails, the lead time to build a replacement is measured in months or in some cases, years. They have to come from a foreign country, because American companies that build them are either closed or restricted by EPA rules, Coal fired generating plants are now severely restricted, as is the mining of coal, for generation of additional electrical energy.. over a tired and aged grid.. Would it really be good to add more load to the already loaded electrical grid with thousands of electrical cars being charged? Is there another transportation device which would serve the city dwelling public better, at lower total cost? For the millions of dollars spent [perhaps billions] in development of electric car models, the purchase and maintenance, and ultimately, disposal, has it been a good investment? Do all ecco vehicles have to be so ugly? [except for Tesla, perhaps, which is to small and to low to be driven by anyone that isn't a circus midget or a clown car driver.] Range with an electric vehicle is the holy grail. Is there any hope in the reasonable future for economic development of an energy storage device with enough capacity to equal a petrol car? One that normal working people could afford? On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 7:12 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Bike or motor scooter in the rain or snow? The fact is that most people (I almost wrote most Americans but I'd think we have longer commutes than most) don't travel more than 20 miles each day. In LA its way less since 20 miles can be a 2 hour commute. For those folks an electric car fits the bill nicely and in fact an internal combustion engine for them is living in severe duty because the engine never warms up. Is it perfect in every occasion? No of course not but remember for each one of THEM driving one of THOSE there is more oil left over for YOU to drive one of YOURS. It would be short sighted of us not to push for electric cars... -Curt From: Dimitri via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious I mean come on now let's face it, the leaf is a worthless POS with no range! Pointless as far as I can see. If I need to get around urban traffic at stop and go pace without AC I might as well ride a bike or motor scooter. Leave it to Japan to create another cutesy turd. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 27, 2015, at 9:00 PM, G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: It's bad design, and I accept that it burns you. Cities have freeways. Western cities cover several hundred square miles of land and have long freeways that require high speed travel. While you may live and work in a totally urban environment with all needs within near walking distance.. a large segment of this country does not. This Leaf should have never been sold for use in this city, so you are correct, it doesn't work for me and it didn't work for the leasor either.. not here, where summertime temps routinely reach over 110 and AC is required for survival. The design power supply will run AC nicely.. but only give you about 40 miles of range, if you keep speeds below 40 MPH. Sorry for your burn.. but, here, it doesn't work. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 1:55 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: It burns me when people say something is bad when using it outside of the design specification. The Leaf is a city car, not a highway car. I'm sure you know that the force required to move something increases geometrically with an exponential increase in speed. The place where an electric car excels is when you sit in traffic. If the AC/heat/lights aren't on the electric car uses basically no energy at all or just the little. So its not that its a bad car, its a bad car for YOU. Where your diesel pickup is a bad vehicle for people who live in the city, it uses too much fuel, is too hard to navigate down little streets and is way too hard to park. Neither is a bad vehicle just bad when outside of their design parameters. -Curt From: G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious No heater, no AC, no lights. Just drove it at prevailing freeway traffic speed and watched the fuel gage drop like
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
You need to trim your posts. On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 11:50 AM, G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I raise this line of question in the chain of transportation logic. The weak link in civilization of modern living is the power grid. Parts of the grid are now over 100 years old and in very poor condition, in some places critical condition. While power companies increase rates, nothing is planned to repair or rebuild the failing transmission grid for power. For example, the supply of major transformers is critical. If one fails, the lead time to build a replacement is measured in months or in some cases, years. They have to come from a foreign country, because American companies that build them are either closed or restricted by EPA rules, Coal fired generating plants are now severely restricted, as is the mining of coal, for generation of additional electrical energy.. over a tired and aged grid.. Would it really be good to add more load to the already loaded electrical grid with thousands of electrical cars being charged? Is there another transportation device which would serve the city dwelling public better, at lower total cost? For the millions of dollars spent [perhaps billions] in development of electric car models, the purchase and maintenance, and ultimately, disposal, has it been a good investment? Do all ecco vehicles have to be so ugly? [except for Tesla, perhaps, which is to small and to low to be driven by anyone that isn't a circus midget or a clown car driver.] Range with an electric vehicle is the holy grail. Is there any hope in the reasonable future for economic development of an energy storage device with enough capacity to equal a petrol car? One that normal working people could afford? On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 7:12 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Bike or motor scooter in the rain or snow? The fact is that most people (I almost wrote most Americans but I'd think we have longer commutes than most) don't travel more than 20 miles each day. In LA its way less since 20 miles can be a 2 hour commute. For those folks an electric car fits the bill nicely and in fact an internal combustion engine for them is living in severe duty because the engine never warms up. Is it perfect in every occasion? No of course not but remember for each one of THEM driving one of THOSE there is more oil left over for YOU to drive one of YOURS. It would be short sighted of us not to push for electric cars... -Curt From: Dimitri via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious I mean come on now let's face it, the leaf is a worthless POS with no range! Pointless as far as I can see. If I need to get around urban traffic at stop and go pace without AC I might as well ride a bike or motor scooter. Leave it to Japan to create another cutesy turd. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 27, 2015, at 9:00 PM, G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: It's bad design, and I accept that it burns you. Cities have freeways. Western cities cover several hundred square miles of land and have long freeways that require high speed travel. While you may live and work in a totally urban environment with all needs within near walking distance.. a large segment of this country does not. This Leaf should have never been sold for use in this city, so you are correct, it doesn't work for me and it didn't work for the leasor either.. not here, where summertime temps routinely reach over 110 and AC is required for survival. The design power supply will run AC nicely.. but only give you about 40 miles of range, if you keep speeds below 40 MPH. Sorry for your burn.. but, here, it doesn't work. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 1:55 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: It burns me when people say something is bad when using it outside of the design specification. The Leaf is a city car, not a highway car. I'm sure you know that the force required to move something increases geometrically with an exponential increase in speed. The place where an electric car excels is when you sit in traffic. If the AC/heat/lights aren't on the electric car uses basically no energy at all or just the little. So its not that its a bad car, its a bad car for YOU. Where your diesel pickup is a bad vehicle for people who live in the city, it uses too much fuel, is too hard to navigate down little streets and is way too hard to park. Neither is a bad vehicle just bad when outside of their design parameters. -Curt From: G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
SWMBA was doing windmill permitting for a number of years. The biggest issue for siting was being able to find a reliable connection to the grid. Nobody is building new access points or hanging fresh wire, so most of this stuff goes where the wire is, not where it is best to get your wind on. Old Warren Buffet purchased a the local big energy firm that sold itself to Scottish power. He did diddly squat for making it a better service provider. He and Berkshire just raped it and then sold it on for massive profit. I think Warren and Berkshire are pirates plundering America. clay On Apr 28, 2015, at 8:50 AM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote: I raise this line of question in the chain of transportation logic. The weak link in civilization of modern living is the power grid. Parts of the grid are now over 100 years old and in very poor condition, in some places critical condition. While power companies increase rates, nothing is planned to repair or rebuild the failing transmission grid for power. For example, the supply of major transformers is critical. If one fails, the lead time to build a replacement is measured in months or in some cases, years. They have to come from a foreign country, because American companies that build them are either closed or restricted by EPA rules, Coal fired generating plants are now severely restricted, as is the mining of coal, for generation of additional electrical energy.. over a tired and aged grid.. Would it really be good to add more load to the already loaded electrical grid with thousands of electrical cars being charged? Is there another transportation device which would serve the city dwelling public better, at lower total cost? For the millions of dollars spent [perhaps billions] in development of electric car models, the purchase and maintenance, and ultimately, disposal, has it been a good investment? Do all ecco vehicles have to be so ugly? [except for Tesla, perhaps, which is to small and to low to be driven by anyone that isn't a circus midget or a clown car driver.] Range with an electric vehicle is the holy grail. Is there any hope in the reasonable future for economic development of an energy storage device with enough capacity to equal a petrol car? One that normal working people could afford? On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 7:12 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Bike or motor scooter in the rain or snow? The fact is that most people (I almost wrote most Americans but I'd think we have longer commutes than most) don't travel more than 20 miles each day. In LA its way less since 20 miles can be a 2 hour commute. For those folks an electric car fits the bill nicely and in fact an internal combustion engine for them is living in severe duty because the engine never warms up. Is it perfect in every occasion? No of course not but remember for each one of THEM driving one of THOSE there is more oil left over for YOU to drive one of YOURS. It would be short sighted of us not to push for electric cars... -Curt From: Dimitri via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious I mean come on now let's face it, the leaf is a worthless POS with no range! Pointless as far as I can see. If I need to get around urban traffic at stop and go pace without AC I might as well ride a bike or motor scooter. Leave it to Japan to create another cutesy turd. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 27, 2015, at 9:00 PM, G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: It's bad design, and I accept that it burns you. Cities have freeways. Western cities cover several hundred square miles of land and have long freeways that require high speed travel. While you may live and work in a totally urban environment with all needs within near walking distance.. a large segment of this country does not. This Leaf should have never been sold for use in this city, so you are correct, it doesn't work for me and it didn't work for the leasor either.. not here, where summertime temps routinely reach over 110 and AC is required for survival. The design power supply will run AC nicely.. but only give you about 40 miles of range, if you keep speeds below 40 MPH. Sorry for your burn.. but, here, it doesn't work. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 1:55 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: It burns me when people say something is bad when using it outside of the design specification. The Leaf is a city car, not a highway car. I'm sure you know that the force required to move something increases geometrically with an exponential increase in speed. The place where an electric car excels is when you sit in traffic. If the AC/heat/lights aren't on the electric car uses basically no energy at all or just the little. So
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
G Mann sez: I raise this line of question in the chain of transportation logic. The weak link in civilization of modern living is the power grid. Parts of the grid are now over 100 years old and in very poor condition, in some places critical condition. While power companies increase rates, nothing is planned to repair or rebuild the failing transmission grid for power. For example, the supply of major transformers is critical. If one fails, the lead time to build a replacement is measured in months or in some cases, years. They have to come from a foreign country, because American companies that build them are either closed or restricted by EPA rules, Coal fired generating plants are now severely restricted, as is the mining of coal, for generation of additional electrical energy.. over a tired and aged grid.. Would it really be good to add more load to the already loaded electrical grid with thousands of electrical cars being charged? Is there another transportation device which would serve the city dwelling public better, at lower total cost? A mule comes to mind. especially in suburbia where the off duty mule might double as a lawnmower as well as fertilizing the lawn. Think of the economic boom that adopting mules would create! Sales of fence posts, wire, staples, tack, oats, hitching racks, shovels and forks would skyrocket! It could also entertain the kids when tv is off because of blackout from the electric grid failing. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
Two aspects to your line of question. First, we must pass regulations that would force electric cars to only be charged at night for load leveling. We would therefore be able to have larger baseload plants that could run more efficiently than peaking unit. Problem is that wind machines and solar generators would be somewhat problematic, so nukes or fossil would be the way to go. Some proposals have already been floated and prototyped to use pumped storage of water for a similar solution. During the day the cars, if plugged in, could also amount to spinning reserve that could be drawn from to level peak loads on the grid. After all, they are just big batteries like you would put in your solarwind house. Screw you if you need to get home and your car has been sucked dry for the common good, you should be riding mass transit anyway. The second aspect is a lot cheaper and already underway by our esteemed president. Allowing the Iraniums and NORKs to build their nukes and the NORKs to build ICBMs is providing a near-term solution to the failing electric grid by detonating an EMP or two in the proper locations, hence providing a massive economic renewal opportunity that would put many to work in the subsistence arts and firearms industries. And of course we would need a massive gummint bureaucracy with really smart people who know better than most peons to make sure it was all being done in the fairest possible way to meet all needs. Full employment, full happiness for all! --R On 4/28/15 11:50 AM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote: I raise this line of question in the chain of transportation logic. The weak link in civilization of modern living is the power grid. Parts of the grid are now over 100 years old and in very poor condition, in some places critical condition. While power companies increase rates, nothing is planned to repair or rebuild the failing transmission grid for power. For example, the supply of major transformers is critical. If one fails, the lead time to build a replacement is measured in months or in some cases, years. They have to come from a foreign country, because American companies that build them are either closed or restricted by EPA rules, Coal fired generating plants are now severely restricted, as is the mining of coal, for generation of additional electrical energy.. over a tired and aged grid.. Would it really be good to add more load to the already loaded electrical grid with thousands of electrical cars being charged? Is there another transportation device which would serve the city dwelling public better, at lower total cost? For the millions of dollars spent [perhaps billions] in development of electric car models, the purchase and maintenance, and ultimately, disposal, has it been a good investment? Do all ecco vehicles have to be so ugly? [except for Tesla, perhaps, which is to small and to low to be driven by anyone that isn't a circus midget or a clown car driver.] Range with an electric vehicle is the holy grail. Is there any hope in the reasonable future for economic development of an energy storage device with enough capacity to equal a petrol car? One that normal working people could afford? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
ALL fuel efficiency claims are false advertising, its part of the game... -Curt From: Dimitri dsereta...@yahoo.com To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious The fact that they claim an unattainable range of 100 miles is false advertising. We do not drive the car in a lab under perfect conditions. In the real, practical world, the leaf has no practical application, hence it's a turd. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 27, 2015, at 10:09 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: And we live in a big 'ole country with lots of different places. Here we've got lots of water while you've got little. Here were there is history stuff is close together. I would submit this is a case of caveat emptor, the car has a possible range of 100 miles which will be severely impacted by running accessories, the leasor should have recognized the fact. Where you mention that he was late to court twice leads me to believe he's not one of the more planning of individuals. Still not the car's fault... -Curt From: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious It's bad design, and I accept that it burns you. Cities have freeways. Western cities cover several hundred square miles of land and have long freeways that require high speed travel. While you may live and work in a totally urban environment with all needs within near walking distance.. a large segment of this country does not. This Leaf should have never been sold for use in this city, so you are correct, it doesn't work for me and it didn't work for the leasor either.. not here, where summertime temps routinely reach over 110 and AC is required for survival. The design power supply will run AC nicely.. but only give you about 40 miles of range, if you keep speeds below 40 MPH. Sorry for your burn.. but, here, it doesn't work. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 1:55 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: It burns me when people say something is bad when using it outside of the design specification. The Leaf is a city car, not a highway car. I'm sure you know that the force required to move something increases geometrically with an exponential increase in speed. The place where an electric car excels is when you sit in traffic. If the AC/heat/lights aren't on the electric car uses basically no energy at all or just the little. So its not that its a bad car, its a bad car for YOU. Where your diesel pickup is a bad vehicle for people who live in the city, it uses too much fuel, is too hard to navigate down little streets and is way too hard to park. Neither is a bad vehicle just bad when outside of their design parameters. -Curt From: G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious No heater, no AC, no lights. Just drove it at prevailing freeway traffic speed and watched the fuel gage drop like a rock at 70 mph... Unlike eastern cities, this city covers more land mass than New Jersey, so getting somewhere is measured in hours of travel rather than miles, often. If I lived somewhere that only required transport to the train station or subway for the commute to work.. then my decision would, I suppose, be to choose between suicide or driving a Leaf. Thankfully, I don't have to make either choice. I have free use of the Leaf for next 2 months because I have ample space to park it, and my friend who owns the lease would turn it in early if he could without incurring penalty, which he can't. Frankly, it is not a practical car in this state. I will plug it in to keep the batteries charged and it will now set. I'm done with the hassle of it after this one excursion. My time has more value than waiting for it to charge up so I can be left dead on the destination end of the next trip. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Hey Grant - did you have the AC or heater running by any chance? On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I drove a Leaf last fall when we were looking at pickup trucks. The kid didn't miss a beat when I went from driving a Nissan Titan to the Leaf. As a car I enjoyed it, it was reasonably quick and fairly quiet. Yes its ugly but its not really all that small compared to the real crapboxes like the Versa. I'm surprised to hear about 28 miles. We drove about 10 miles up a big hill and back down made enough power that the car only showed about 1% drop
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
I like your lady friend already Sent from my iPhone On Apr 27, 2015, at 4:34 PM, G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: If cash for clunkers opened a new program.. I would pay to have it towed to the head of the line just for the pleasure of watching it be crushed? (true, BTW) Since I can curse in 5 languages, my description could be prolific, but I don't wish to go that route.. haha. Let me sum it up this way.. I took my lady friend to lunch in it.. her comment was.. You keep driving this and we both should start dating other men. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 11:55 AM, Curly McLain via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: No heater, no AC, no lights. Just drove it at prevailing freeway traffic speed and watched the fuel gage drop like a rock at 70 mph... Unlike eastern cities, this city covers more land mass than New Jersey, so getting somewhere is measured in hours of travel rather than miles, often. If I lived somewhere that only required transport to the train station or subway for the commute to work.. then my decision would, I suppose, be to choose between suicide or driving a Leaf. Thankfully, I don't have to make either choice. I have free use of the Leaf for next 2 months because I have ample space to park it, and my friend who owns the lease would turn it in early if he could without incurring penalty, which he can't. Frankly, it is not a practical car in this state. I will plug it in to keep the batteries charged and it will now set. I'm done with the hassle of it after this one excursion. My time has more value than waiting for it to charge up so I can be left dead on the destination end of the next trip. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Why don'tcha tell us what you really think of it? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
Over the 3 year lease my friend is going to pay a total of around $4100 for the car plus electricity, probably won't even have to put another set of tires on it. Sure insurance but still... Thats dirt cheap money for a car which will have essentially zero repair costs. My tolerance for working on cars descends each year, I've got other toys I want to play with and spending a whole bunch of time keeping my daily driver isn't that much fun anymore. Plus my MB Indy has retired, if I need MB specific work where I don't trust a generic garage I'm on my own. If I had a big nice shop I'd consider it but working out in the rain is losing its luster... -Curt From: Curly McLain via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious If I could get a deal like that I'd be all over it, Angie only commutes about 10 miles each way... -Curt My commute is 11 mi round trip in town, and my SDL handles it gracefully. The last tankful went about 6 weeks, including other errands. That included the loss to the leaky steel line. Many days are 16-24 miles with the extra errands. A wabbit Dissel would get 45 mpg in this use. can't beat that cost with a 'lectric beater. BTW, the SDL is rusty and was acquired at or near a kaleb price. Cheapest transportation I've had since the wabbit or the first 190Dc. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
Damn, I knew I was going to get caught but couldn't come up with the right answer fast enough to send an email today.My point was that the energy required to move the car increases faster than the speed. So while it might take X energy to move the car at 35mph it takes more than X2 energy to move the car at 70mph. -Curt From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 5:32 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious Actually, the power required increases exponentially with speed (by the square of the speed, mostly, due to aerodynamic drag and some other due to powertrain effects). Force (or in the case of a car, torque, which a rotational force that turns into a linear force at the tires) causes an acceleration . The force/acceleration relationship is geometrical, F=ma (torque = rotational inertia X rotational acceleration) Work is force (torque) applied over some distance (or rotation) Power is work done over time. --R On 4/27/15 4:55 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote: force required to move something increases geometrically with an exponential increase in speed. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
I see a lot of Teslas from tony Potomac, MD docs and lawyers being driven as commuter cars. Very slick styling. Whoosh! On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 4:34 PM, G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: If cash for clunkers opened a new program.. I would pay to have it towed to the head of the line just for the pleasure of watching it be crushed? (true, BTW) Since I can curse in 5 languages, my description could be prolific, but I don't wish to go that route.. haha. Let me sum it up this way.. I took my lady friend to lunch in it.. her comment was.. You keep driving this and we both should start dating other men. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 11:55 AM, Curly McLain via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: No heater, no AC, no lights. Just drove it at prevailing freeway traffic speed and watched the fuel gage drop like a rock at 70 mph... Unlike eastern cities, this city covers more land mass than New Jersey, so getting somewhere is measured in hours of travel rather than miles, often. If I lived somewhere that only required transport to the train station or subway for the commute to work.. then my decision would, I suppose, be to choose between suicide or driving a Leaf. Thankfully, I don't have to make either choice. I have free use of the Leaf for next 2 months because I have ample space to park it, and my friend who owns the lease would turn it in early if he could without incurring penalty, which he can't. Frankly, it is not a practical car in this state. I will plug it in to keep the batteries charged and it will now set. I'm done with the hassle of it after this one excursion. My time has more value than waiting for it to charge up so I can be left dead on the destination end of the next trip. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Why don'tcha tell us what you really think of it? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
If I could get a deal like that I'd be all over it, Angie only commutes about 10 miles each way... -Curt My commute is 11 mi round trip in town, and my SDL handles it gracefully. The last tankful went about 6 weeks, including other errands. That included the loss to the leaky steel line. Many days are 16-24 miles with the extra errands. A wabbit Dissel would get 45 mpg in this use. can't beat that cost with a 'lectric beater. BTW, the SDL is rusty and was acquired at or near a kaleb price. Cheapest transportation I've had since the wabbit or the first 190Dc. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
If cash for clunkers opened a new program.. I would pay to have it towed to the head of the line just for the pleasure of watching it be crushed? (true, BTW) Since I can curse in 5 languages, my description could be prolific, but I don't wish to go that route.. haha. Let me sum it up this way.. I took my lady friend to lunch in it.. her comment was.. You keep driving this and we both should start dating other men. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 11:55 AM, Curly McLain via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: No heater, no AC, no lights. Just drove it at prevailing freeway traffic speed and watched the fuel gage drop like a rock at 70 mph... Unlike eastern cities, this city covers more land mass than New Jersey, so getting somewhere is measured in hours of travel rather than miles, often. If I lived somewhere that only required transport to the train station or subway for the commute to work.. then my decision would, I suppose, be to choose between suicide or driving a Leaf. Thankfully, I don't have to make either choice. I have free use of the Leaf for next 2 months because I have ample space to park it, and my friend who owns the lease would turn it in early if he could without incurring penalty, which he can't. Frankly, it is not a practical car in this state. I will plug it in to keep the batteries charged and it will now set. I'm done with the hassle of it after this one excursion. My time has more value than waiting for it to charge up so I can be left dead on the destination end of the next trip. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Why don'tcha tell us what you really think of it? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
It burns me when people say something is bad when using it outside of the design specification. The Leaf is a city car, not a highway car. I'm sure you know that the force required to move something increases geometrically with an exponential increase in speed. The place where an electric car excels is when you sit in traffic. If the AC/heat/lights aren't on the electric car uses basically no energy at all or just the little. So its not that its a bad car, its a bad car for YOU. Where your diesel pickup is a bad vehicle for people who live in the city, it uses too much fuel, is too hard to navigate down little streets and is way too hard to park. Neither is a bad vehicle just bad when outside of their design parameters. -Curt From: G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious No heater, no AC, no lights. Just drove it at prevailing freeway traffic speed and watched the fuel gage drop like a rock at 70 mph... Unlike eastern cities, this city covers more land mass than New Jersey, so getting somewhere is measured in hours of travel rather than miles, often. If I lived somewhere that only required transport to the train station or subway for the commute to work.. then my decision would, I suppose, be to choose between suicide or driving a Leaf. Thankfully, I don't have to make either choice. I have free use of the Leaf for next 2 months because I have ample space to park it, and my friend who owns the lease would turn it in early if he could without incurring penalty, which he can't. Frankly, it is not a practical car in this state. I will plug it in to keep the batteries charged and it will now set. I'm done with the hassle of it after this one excursion. My time has more value than waiting for it to charge up so I can be left dead on the destination end of the next trip. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Hey Grant - did you have the AC or heater running by any chance? On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I drove a Leaf last fall when we were looking at pickup trucks. The kid didn't miss a beat when I went from driving a Nissan Titan to the Leaf. As a car I enjoyed it, it was reasonably quick and fairly quiet. Yes its ugly but its not really all that small compared to the real crapboxes like the Versa. I'm surprised to hear about 28 miles. We drove about 10 miles up a big hill and back down made enough power that the car only showed about 1% drop in capacity. I didn't thrash on it though I didn't drive it super conservatively either and we ran the AC. The kid at the dealership where we tested has one and says he regularly gets around 80 miles, its rated for 110 I think. 110v charging will always be very slow, 220v is of course much faster but more than twice as fast in practice I'm given to understand. The 440v chargers are astounding, 0-80% in as little as 20 minutes. A friend has an electric Fiat, she had to pay $3000 down on the lease but its $100/mo and California gives her a $2500 rebate. If I could get a deal like that I'd be all over it, Angie only commutes about 10 miles each way... -Curt From: G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2015 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] [ SPAM ] Re: Park your Toyota Pious Anyone here have any interest in a Nissan Leaf? I was given one to drive for the next two months until the lease expires. 17,000 miles of silent battery driving, all in town, since the effective range is about 80 miles before either a tow or recharge. I made a quick trip to the airport two days ago, in freeway traffic at 70mph, starting with a full charge and 28 miles later arrived at the airport with a total of 8 miles available showing on the remaining fuel meter ... Put the car in my hanger and plugged it in to the available 110V service and after only 18 hrs of charge on 110 it was back up to 85% charge.. so I drove it home [house in town] on city streets only, no AC on, no speed above 35 mph... arrived with a bit over 39% charge remaining It is, I believe, the most expensive golf cart I've ever driven Like my lawyer friend who owns the lease and got stuck twice on way to court hearings because the summer heat killed the charge [you don't show up late to court.. ever] I'm sure if I used it for anything but going to the supermarket I will grow to hate it.. On reflection.. I already do hate it.. It's even a special design ugly kind of styling [to my eye anyway]. On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 3:25 PM, Mountain Man via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
Actually, the power required increases exponentially with speed (by the square of the speed, mostly, due to aerodynamic drag and some other due to powertrain effects). Force (or in the case of a car, torque, which a rotational force that turns into a linear force at the tires) causes an acceleration . The force/acceleration relationship is geometrical, F=ma (torque = rotational inertia X rotational acceleration) Work is force (torque) applied over some distance (or rotation) Power is work done over time. --R On 4/27/15 4:55 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote: force required to move something increases geometrically with an exponential increase in speed. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
I drove a Leaf last fall when we were looking at pickup trucks. The kid didn't miss a beat when I went from driving a Nissan Titan to the Leaf. As a car I enjoyed it, it was reasonably quick and fairly quiet. Yes its ugly but its not really all that small compared to the real crapboxes like the Versa. I'm surprised to hear about 28 miles. We drove about 10 miles up a big hill and back down made enough power that the car only showed about 1% drop in capacity. I didn't thrash on it though I didn't drive it super conservatively either and we ran the AC. The kid at the dealership where we tested has one and says he regularly gets around 80 miles, its rated for 110 I think. 110v charging will always be very slow, 220v is of course much faster but more than twice as fast in practice I'm given to understand. The 440v chargers are astounding, 0-80% in as little as 20 minutes. A friend has an electric Fiat, she had to pay $3000 down on the lease but its $100/mo and California gives her a $2500 rebate. If I could get a deal like that I'd be all over it, Angie only commutes about 10 miles each way... -Curt From: G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2015 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] [ SPAM ] Re: Park your Toyota Pious Anyone here have any interest in a Nissan Leaf? I was given one to drive for the next two months until the lease expires. 17,000 miles of silent battery driving, all in town, since the effective range is about 80 miles before either a tow or recharge. I made a quick trip to the airport two days ago, in freeway traffic at 70mph, starting with a full charge and 28 miles later arrived at the airport with a total of 8 miles available showing on the remaining fuel meter ... Put the car in my hanger and plugged it in to the available 110V service and after only 18 hrs of charge on 110 it was back up to 85% charge.. so I drove it home [house in town] on city streets only, no AC on, no speed above 35 mph... arrived with a bit over 39% charge remaining It is, I believe, the most expensive golf cart I've ever driven Like my lawyer friend who owns the lease and got stuck twice on way to court hearings because the summer heat killed the charge [you don't show up late to court.. ever] I'm sure if I used it for anything but going to the supermarket I will grow to hate it.. On reflection.. I already do hate it.. It's even a special design ugly kind of styling [to my eye anyway]. On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 3:25 PM, Mountain Man via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Peter wrote: Blind people hate Piouses I bet they also hate the Volt and also Tesla and Smart. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
And FAST. A Tesla will embarrass a super car like a Lambo off the line. Somewhere around 100mph the infernal combustion engine starts to win but for low end torque nothing beats an electric motor except maybe steam... -Curt From: Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 4:42 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious I see a lot of Teslas from tony Potomac, MD docs and lawyers being driven as commuter cars. Very slick styling. Whoosh! On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 4:34 PM, G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: If cash for clunkers opened a new program.. I would pay to have it towed to the head of the line just for the pleasure of watching it be crushed? (true, BTW) Since I can curse in 5 languages, my description could be prolific, but I don't wish to go that route.. haha. Let me sum it up this way.. I took my lady friend to lunch in it.. her comment was.. You keep driving this and we both should start dating other men. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 11:55 AM, Curly McLain via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: No heater, no AC, no lights. Just drove it at prevailing freeway traffic speed and watched the fuel gage drop like a rock at 70 mph... Unlike eastern cities, this city covers more land mass than New Jersey, so getting somewhere is measured in hours of travel rather than miles, often. If I lived somewhere that only required transport to the train station or subway for the commute to work.. then my decision would, I suppose, be to choose between suicide or driving a Leaf. Thankfully, I don't have to make either choice. I have free use of the Leaf for next 2 months because I have ample space to park it, and my friend who owns the lease would turn it in early if he could without incurring penalty, which he can't. Frankly, it is not a practical car in this state. I will plug it in to keep the batteries charged and it will now set. I'm done with the hassle of it after this one excursion. My time has more value than waiting for it to charge up so I can be left dead on the destination end of the next trip. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Why don'tcha tell us what you really think of it? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
It's bad design, and I accept that it burns you. Cities have freeways. Western cities cover several hundred square miles of land and have long freeways that require high speed travel. While you may live and work in a totally urban environment with all needs within near walking distance.. a large segment of this country does not. This Leaf should have never been sold for use in this city, so you are correct, it doesn't work for me and it didn't work for the leasor either.. not here, where summertime temps routinely reach over 110 and AC is required for survival. The design power supply will run AC nicely.. but only give you about 40 miles of range, if you keep speeds below 40 MPH. Sorry for your burn.. but, here, it doesn't work. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 1:55 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: It burns me when people say something is bad when using it outside of the design specification. The Leaf is a city car, not a highway car. I'm sure you know that the force required to move something increases geometrically with an exponential increase in speed. The place where an electric car excels is when you sit in traffic. If the AC/heat/lights aren't on the electric car uses basically no energy at all or just the little. So its not that its a bad car, its a bad car for YOU. Where your diesel pickup is a bad vehicle for people who live in the city, it uses too much fuel, is too hard to navigate down little streets and is way too hard to park. Neither is a bad vehicle just bad when outside of their design parameters. -Curt From: G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious No heater, no AC, no lights. Just drove it at prevailing freeway traffic speed and watched the fuel gage drop like a rock at 70 mph... Unlike eastern cities, this city covers more land mass than New Jersey, so getting somewhere is measured in hours of travel rather than miles, often. If I lived somewhere that only required transport to the train station or subway for the commute to work.. then my decision would, I suppose, be to choose between suicide or driving a Leaf. Thankfully, I don't have to make either choice. I have free use of the Leaf for next 2 months because I have ample space to park it, and my friend who owns the lease would turn it in early if he could without incurring penalty, which he can't. Frankly, it is not a practical car in this state. I will plug it in to keep the batteries charged and it will now set. I'm done with the hassle of it after this one excursion. My time has more value than waiting for it to charge up so I can be left dead on the destination end of the next trip. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Hey Grant - did you have the AC or heater running by any chance? On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I drove a Leaf last fall when we were looking at pickup trucks. The kid didn't miss a beat when I went from driving a Nissan Titan to the Leaf. As a car I enjoyed it, it was reasonably quick and fairly quiet. Yes its ugly but its not really all that small compared to the real crapboxes like the Versa. I'm surprised to hear about 28 miles. We drove about 10 miles up a big hill and back down made enough power that the car only showed about 1% drop in capacity. I didn't thrash on it though I didn't drive it super conservatively either and we ran the AC. The kid at the dealership where we tested has one and says he regularly gets around 80 miles, its rated for 110 I think. 110v charging will always be very slow, 220v is of course much faster but more than twice as fast in practice I'm given to understand. The 440v chargers are astounding, 0-80% in as little as 20 minutes. A friend has an electric Fiat, she had to pay $3000 down on the lease but its $100/mo and California gives her a $2500 rebate. If I could get a deal like that I'd be all over it, Angie only commutes about 10 miles each way... -Curt From: G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2015 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] [ SPAM ] Re: Park your Toyota Pious Anyone here have any interest in a Nissan Leaf? I was given one to drive for the next two months until the lease expires. 17,000 miles of silent battery driving, all in town, since the effective range is about 80 miles before either a tow or recharge. I made a quick trip to the airport two days ago, in freeway traffic at 70mph, starting with a full charge and 28 miles later arrived at the airport with a total of 8 miles
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
I mean come on now let's face it, the leaf is a worthless POS with no range! Pointless as far as I can see. If I need to get around urban traffic at stop and go pace without AC I might as well ride a bike or motor scooter. Leave it to Japan to create another cutesy turd. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 27, 2015, at 9:00 PM, G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: It's bad design, and I accept that it burns you. Cities have freeways. Western cities cover several hundred square miles of land and have long freeways that require high speed travel. While you may live and work in a totally urban environment with all needs within near walking distance.. a large segment of this country does not. This Leaf should have never been sold for use in this city, so you are correct, it doesn't work for me and it didn't work for the leasor either.. not here, where summertime temps routinely reach over 110 and AC is required for survival. The design power supply will run AC nicely.. but only give you about 40 miles of range, if you keep speeds below 40 MPH. Sorry for your burn.. but, here, it doesn't work. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 1:55 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: It burns me when people say something is bad when using it outside of the design specification. The Leaf is a city car, not a highway car. I'm sure you know that the force required to move something increases geometrically with an exponential increase in speed. The place where an electric car excels is when you sit in traffic. If the AC/heat/lights aren't on the electric car uses basically no energy at all or just the little. So its not that its a bad car, its a bad car for YOU. Where your diesel pickup is a bad vehicle for people who live in the city, it uses too much fuel, is too hard to navigate down little streets and is way too hard to park. Neither is a bad vehicle just bad when outside of their design parameters. -Curt From: G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious No heater, no AC, no lights. Just drove it at prevailing freeway traffic speed and watched the fuel gage drop like a rock at 70 mph... Unlike eastern cities, this city covers more land mass than New Jersey, so getting somewhere is measured in hours of travel rather than miles, often. If I lived somewhere that only required transport to the train station or subway for the commute to work.. then my decision would, I suppose, be to choose between suicide or driving a Leaf. Thankfully, I don't have to make either choice. I have free use of the Leaf for next 2 months because I have ample space to park it, and my friend who owns the lease would turn it in early if he could without incurring penalty, which he can't. Frankly, it is not a practical car in this state. I will plug it in to keep the batteries charged and it will now set. I'm done with the hassle of it after this one excursion. My time has more value than waiting for it to charge up so I can be left dead on the destination end of the next trip. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Hey Grant - did you have the AC or heater running by any chance? On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I drove a Leaf last fall when we were looking at pickup trucks. The kid didn't miss a beat when I went from driving a Nissan Titan to the Leaf. As a car I enjoyed it, it was reasonably quick and fairly quiet. Yes its ugly but its not really all that small compared to the real crapboxes like the Versa. I'm surprised to hear about 28 miles. We drove about 10 miles up a big hill and back down made enough power that the car only showed about 1% drop in capacity. I didn't thrash on it though I didn't drive it super conservatively either and we ran the AC. The kid at the dealership where we tested has one and says he regularly gets around 80 miles, its rated for 110 I think. 110v charging will always be very slow, 220v is of course much faster but more than twice as fast in practice I'm given to understand. The 440v chargers are astounding, 0-80% in as little as 20 minutes. A friend has an electric Fiat, she had to pay $3000 down on the lease but its $100/mo and California gives her a $2500 rebate. If I could get a deal like that I'd be all over it, Angie only commutes about 10 miles each way... -Curt From: G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2015 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] [ SPAM ] Re: Park your Toyota Pious Anyone here have any interest in a Nissan Leaf? I was given one to drive for the next two months until
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
And we live in a big 'ole country with lots of different places. Here we've got lots of water while you've got little. Here were there is history stuff is close together. I would submit this is a case of caveat emptor, the car has a possible range of 100 miles which will be severely impacted by running accessories, the leasor should have recognized the fact. Where you mention that he was late to court twice leads me to believe he's not one of the more planning of individuals. Still not the car's fault... -Curt From: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious It's bad design, and I accept that it burns you. Cities have freeways. Western cities cover several hundred square miles of land and have long freeways that require high speed travel. While you may live and work in a totally urban environment with all needs within near walking distance.. a large segment of this country does not. This Leaf should have never been sold for use in this city, so you are correct, it doesn't work for me and it didn't work for the leasor either.. not here, where summertime temps routinely reach over 110 and AC is required for survival. The design power supply will run AC nicely.. but only give you about 40 miles of range, if you keep speeds below 40 MPH. Sorry for your burn.. but, here, it doesn't work. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 1:55 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: It burns me when people say something is bad when using it outside of the design specification. The Leaf is a city car, not a highway car. I'm sure you know that the force required to move something increases geometrically with an exponential increase in speed. The place where an electric car excels is when you sit in traffic. If the AC/heat/lights aren't on the electric car uses basically no energy at all or just the little. So its not that its a bad car, its a bad car for YOU. Where your diesel pickup is a bad vehicle for people who live in the city, it uses too much fuel, is too hard to navigate down little streets and is way too hard to park. Neither is a bad vehicle just bad when outside of their design parameters. -Curt From: G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious No heater, no AC, no lights. Just drove it at prevailing freeway traffic speed and watched the fuel gage drop like a rock at 70 mph... Unlike eastern cities, this city covers more land mass than New Jersey, so getting somewhere is measured in hours of travel rather than miles, often. If I lived somewhere that only required transport to the train station or subway for the commute to work.. then my decision would, I suppose, be to choose between suicide or driving a Leaf. Thankfully, I don't have to make either choice. I have free use of the Leaf for next 2 months because I have ample space to park it, and my friend who owns the lease would turn it in early if he could without incurring penalty, which he can't. Frankly, it is not a practical car in this state. I will plug it in to keep the batteries charged and it will now set. I'm done with the hassle of it after this one excursion. My time has more value than waiting for it to charge up so I can be left dead on the destination end of the next trip. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Hey Grant - did you have the AC or heater running by any chance? On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I drove a Leaf last fall when we were looking at pickup trucks. The kid didn't miss a beat when I went from driving a Nissan Titan to the Leaf. As a car I enjoyed it, it was reasonably quick and fairly quiet. Yes its ugly but its not really all that small compared to the real crapboxes like the Versa. I'm surprised to hear about 28 miles. We drove about 10 miles up a big hill and back down made enough power that the car only showed about 1% drop in capacity. I didn't thrash on it though I didn't drive it super conservatively either and we ran the AC. The kid at the dealership where we tested has one and says he regularly gets around 80 miles, its rated for 110 I think. 110v charging will always be very slow, 220v is of course much faster but more than twice as fast in practice I'm given to understand. The 440v chargers are astounding, 0-80% in as little as 20 minutes. A friend has an electric Fiat, she had to pay $3000 down on the lease but its $100/mo and California gives her a $2500 rebate. If I could get a deal like that I'd be all over it, Angie only commutes about 10 miles each way... -Curt From: G Mann
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
The Leaf would be a good car for my BIL in Philly, my daughter in NYC, or the one in Providence, and probably the one moving to Boston; assuming that they will not be taking road trips out of town in it. It would even be a good car for my wife, as she only drives the Passat once a week for approx. 40 miles round trip. No one car will be good at all missions . . . On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 9:15 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: The fact that they claim an unattainable range of 100 miles is false advertising. We do not drive the car in a lab under perfect conditions. In the real, practical world, the leaf has no practical application, hence it's a turd. -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
I commute 13 miles RT daily. I will gladly accept a donation of any brand of electric car. -- Sent from myMail app for Android Monday, 27 April 2015, 11:40PM -0400 from OK Don via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com: The Leaf would be a good car for my BIL in Philly, my daughter in NYC, or the one in Providence, and probably the one moving to Boston; assuming that they will not be taking road trips out of town in it. It would even be a good car for my wife, as she only drives the Passat once a week for approx. 40 miles round trip. No one car will be good at all missions . . . On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 9:15 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: The fact that they claim an unattainable range of 100 miles is false advertising. We do not drive the car in a lab under perfect conditions. In the real, practical world, the leaf has no practical application, hence it's a turd. -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
The fact that they claim an unattainable range of 100 miles is false advertising. We do not drive the car in a lab under perfect conditions. In the real, practical world, the leaf has no practical application, hence it's a turd. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 27, 2015, at 10:09 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: And we live in a big 'ole country with lots of different places. Here we've got lots of water while you've got little. Here were there is history stuff is close together. I would submit this is a case of caveat emptor, the car has a possible range of 100 miles which will be severely impacted by running accessories, the leasor should have recognized the fact. Where you mention that he was late to court twice leads me to believe he's not one of the more planning of individuals. Still not the car's fault... -Curt From: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious It's bad design, and I accept that it burns you. Cities have freeways. Western cities cover several hundred square miles of land and have long freeways that require high speed travel. While you may live and work in a totally urban environment with all needs within near walking distance.. a large segment of this country does not. This Leaf should have never been sold for use in this city, so you are correct, it doesn't work for me and it didn't work for the leasor either.. not here, where summertime temps routinely reach over 110 and AC is required for survival. The design power supply will run AC nicely.. but only give you about 40 miles of range, if you keep speeds below 40 MPH. Sorry for your burn.. but, here, it doesn't work. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 1:55 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: It burns me when people say something is bad when using it outside of the design specification. The Leaf is a city car, not a highway car. I'm sure you know that the force required to move something increases geometrically with an exponential increase in speed. The place where an electric car excels is when you sit in traffic. If the AC/heat/lights aren't on the electric car uses basically no energy at all or just the little. So its not that its a bad car, its a bad car for YOU. Where your diesel pickup is a bad vehicle for people who live in the city, it uses too much fuel, is too hard to navigate down little streets and is way too hard to park. Neither is a bad vehicle just bad when outside of their design parameters. -Curt From: G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious No heater, no AC, no lights. Just drove it at prevailing freeway traffic speed and watched the fuel gage drop like a rock at 70 mph... Unlike eastern cities, this city covers more land mass than New Jersey, so getting somewhere is measured in hours of travel rather than miles, often. If I lived somewhere that only required transport to the train station or subway for the commute to work.. then my decision would, I suppose, be to choose between suicide or driving a Leaf. Thankfully, I don't have to make either choice. I have free use of the Leaf for next 2 months because I have ample space to park it, and my friend who owns the lease would turn it in early if he could without incurring penalty, which he can't. Frankly, it is not a practical car in this state. I will plug it in to keep the batteries charged and it will now set. I'm done with the hassle of it after this one excursion. My time has more value than waiting for it to charge up so I can be left dead on the destination end of the next trip. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Hey Grant - did you have the AC or heater running by any chance? On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I drove a Leaf last fall when we were looking at pickup trucks. The kid didn't miss a beat when I went from driving a Nissan Titan to the Leaf. As a car I enjoyed it, it was reasonably quick and fairly quiet. Yes its ugly but its not really all that small compared to the real crapboxes like the Versa. I'm surprised to hear about 28 miles. We drove about 10 miles up a big hill and back down made enough power that the car only showed about 1% drop in capacity. I didn't thrash on it though I didn't drive it super conservatively either and we ran the AC. The kid at the dealership where we tested has one and says he regularly gets around 80 miles, its rated for 110 I think. 110v charging will always be very slow, 220v is of course much
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
Lessor and lessee are commonly misspelled. Don't feel bad about it. ;) On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 9:00 PM, G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: It's bad design, and I accept that it burns you. Cities have freeways. Western cities cover several hundred square miles of land and have long freeways that require high speed travel. While you may live and work in a totally urban environment with all needs within near walking distance.. a large segment of this country does not. This Leaf should have never been sold for use in this city, so you are correct, it doesn't work for me and it didn't work for the leasor either.. not here, where summertime temps routinely reach over 110 and AC is required for survival. The design power supply will run AC nicely.. but only give you about 40 miles of range, if you keep speeds below 40 MPH. Sorry for your burn.. but, here, it doesn't work. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 1:55 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: It burns me when people say something is bad when using it outside of the design specification. The Leaf is a city car, not a highway car. I'm sure you know that the force required to move something increases geometrically with an exponential increase in speed. The place where an electric car excels is when you sit in traffic. If the AC/heat/lights aren't on the electric car uses basically no energy at all or just the little. So its not that its a bad car, its a bad car for YOU. Where your diesel pickup is a bad vehicle for people who live in the city, it uses too much fuel, is too hard to navigate down little streets and is way too hard to park. Neither is a bad vehicle just bad when outside of their design parameters. -Curt From: G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious No heater, no AC, no lights. Just drove it at prevailing freeway traffic speed and watched the fuel gage drop like a rock at 70 mph... Unlike eastern cities, this city covers more land mass than New Jersey, so getting somewhere is measured in hours of travel rather than miles, often. If I lived somewhere that only required transport to the train station or subway for the commute to work.. then my decision would, I suppose, be to choose between suicide or driving a Leaf. Thankfully, I don't have to make either choice. I have free use of the Leaf for next 2 months because I have ample space to park it, and my friend who owns the lease would turn it in early if he could without incurring penalty, which he can't. Frankly, it is not a practical car in this state. I will plug it in to keep the batteries charged and it will now set. I'm done with the hassle of it after this one excursion. My time has more value than waiting for it to charge up so I can be left dead on the destination end of the next trip. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Hey Grant - did you have the AC or heater running by any chance? On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I drove a Leaf last fall when we were looking at pickup trucks. The kid didn't miss a beat when I went from driving a Nissan Titan to the Leaf. As a car I enjoyed it, it was reasonably quick and fairly quiet. Yes its ugly but its not really all that small compared to the real crapboxes like the Versa. I'm surprised to hear about 28 miles. We drove about 10 miles up a big hill and back down made enough power that the car only showed about 1% drop in capacity. I didn't thrash on it though I didn't drive it super conservatively either and we ran the AC. The kid at the dealership where we tested has one and says he regularly gets around 80 miles, its rated for 110 I think. 110v charging will always be very slow, 220v is of course much faster but more than twice as fast in practice I'm given to understand. The 440v chargers are astounding, 0-80% in as little as 20 minutes. A friend has an electric Fiat, she had to pay $3000 down on the lease but its $100/mo and California gives her a $2500 rebate. If I could get a deal like that I'd be all over it, Angie only commutes about 10 miles each way... -Curt From: G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2015 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] [ SPAM ] Re: Park your Toyota Pious Anyone here have any interest in a Nissan Leaf? I was given one to drive for the next two months until the lease expires. 17,000 miles of silent battery driving, all in town
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
Hey Grant - did you have the AC or heater running by any chance? On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I drove a Leaf last fall when we were looking at pickup trucks. The kid didn't miss a beat when I went from driving a Nissan Titan to the Leaf. As a car I enjoyed it, it was reasonably quick and fairly quiet. Yes its ugly but its not really all that small compared to the real crapboxes like the Versa. I'm surprised to hear about 28 miles. We drove about 10 miles up a big hill and back down made enough power that the car only showed about 1% drop in capacity. I didn't thrash on it though I didn't drive it super conservatively either and we ran the AC. The kid at the dealership where we tested has one and says he regularly gets around 80 miles, its rated for 110 I think. 110v charging will always be very slow, 220v is of course much faster but more than twice as fast in practice I'm given to understand. The 440v chargers are astounding, 0-80% in as little as 20 minutes. A friend has an electric Fiat, she had to pay $3000 down on the lease but its $100/mo and California gives her a $2500 rebate. If I could get a deal like that I'd be all over it, Angie only commutes about 10 miles each way... -Curt From: G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2015 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] [ SPAM ] Re: Park your Toyota Pious Anyone here have any interest in a Nissan Leaf? I was given one to drive for the next two months until the lease expires. 17,000 miles of silent battery driving, all in town, since the effective range is about 80 miles before either a tow or recharge. I made a quick trip to the airport two days ago, in freeway traffic at 70mph, starting with a full charge and 28 miles later arrived at the airport with a total of 8 miles available showing on the remaining fuel meter ... Put the car in my hanger and plugged it in to the available 110V service and after only 18 hrs of charge on 110 it was back up to 85% charge.. so I drove it home [house in town] on city streets only, no AC on, no speed above 35 mph... arrived with a bit over 39% charge remaining It is, I believe, the most expensive golf cart I've ever driven Like my lawyer friend who owns the lease and got stuck twice on way to court hearings because the summer heat killed the charge [you don't show up late to court.. ever] I'm sure if I used it for anything but going to the supermarket I will grow to hate it.. On reflection.. I already do hate it.. It's even a special design ugly kind of styling [to my eye anyway]. On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 3:25 PM, Mountain Man via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Peter wrote: Blind people hate Piouses I bet they also hate the Volt and also Tesla and Smart. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
On 26/04/2015 3:23 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote: So a little while ago I rode my bike down to the beach and was coming home. I only have to go in a road for a coupla hundred feet, mostly through a rotary/roundabout, the rest is bike path or a median for a short ways. So I am going through the rotary, the law says I am entitled to a lane, or a vehicle shall pass safely where possible. So as I go to exit the rotary onto the road I see, out the back corner of my eye, a black bumper about 4 inches from my back wheel, attempting to pass me and turn on the same road. I yell and the car backs off. *Then I get onto the road, and immediately into the center median away from the vehicle lanes, and a Pious passes me running on battery. So I never heard the thing as the woman was attempting to run me over. * Nice. That has happened to me in parking lots too, people in those things attempting to go around when they should just wait and follow, and they can't be heard AT ALL. Like 15 seconds is going to postpone their world-changing mission. --R You cannot fix stupid. RB ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
No heater, no AC, no lights. Just drove it at prevailing freeway traffic speed and watched the fuel gage drop like a rock at 70 mph... Unlike eastern cities, this city covers more land mass than New Jersey, so getting somewhere is measured in hours of travel rather than miles, often. If I lived somewhere that only required transport to the train station or subway for the commute to work.. then my decision would, I suppose, be to choose between suicide or driving a Leaf. Thankfully, I don't have to make either choice. I have free use of the Leaf for next 2 months because I have ample space to park it, and my friend who owns the lease would turn it in early if he could without incurring penalty, which he can't. Frankly, it is not a practical car in this state. I will plug it in to keep the batteries charged and it will now set. I'm done with the hassle of it after this one excursion. My time has more value than waiting for it to charge up so I can be left dead on the destination end of the next trip. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Why don'tcha tell us what you really think of it? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
At least when I was riding motorcicles I could hear the dumb broad fail to see me in her unintended attempt to end my life clay On Apr 26, 2015, at 1:23 PM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes wrote: So a little while ago I rode my bike down to the beach and was coming home. I only have to go in a road for a coupla hundred feet, mostly through a rotary/roundabout, the rest is bike path or a median for a short ways. So I am going through the rotary, the law says I am entitled to a lane, or a vehicle shall pass safely where possible. So as I go to exit the rotary onto the road I see, out the back corner of my eye, a black bumper about 4 inches from my back wheel, attempting to pass me and turn on the same road. I yell and the car backs off. Then I get onto the road, and immediately into the center median away from the vehicle lanes, and a Pious passes me running on battery. So I never heard the thing as the woman was attempting to run me over. Nice. That has happened to me in parking lots too, people in those things attempting to go around when they should just wait and follow, and they can't be heard AT ALL. Like 15 seconds is going to postpone their world-changing mission. --R On 4/26/15 2:35 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote: I will try to carry such an honor forward by not applying for the Darwin Award any time soon.. ;)) TYVM.. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
Bike or motor scooter in the rain or snow? The fact is that most people (I almost wrote most Americans but I'd think we have longer commutes than most) don't travel more than 20 miles each day. In LA its way less since 20 miles can be a 2 hour commute. For those folks an electric car fits the bill nicely and in fact an internal combustion engine for them is living in severe duty because the engine never warms up. Is it perfect in every occasion? No of course not but remember for each one of THEM driving one of THOSE there is more oil left over for YOU to drive one of YOURS. It would be short sighted of us not to push for electric cars... -Curt From: Dimitri via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 9:49 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious I mean come on now let's face it, the leaf is a worthless POS with no range! Pointless as far as I can see. If I need to get around urban traffic at stop and go pace without AC I might as well ride a bike or motor scooter. Leave it to Japan to create another cutesy turd. Sent from my iPhone On Apr 27, 2015, at 9:00 PM, G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: It's bad design, and I accept that it burns you. Cities have freeways. Western cities cover several hundred square miles of land and have long freeways that require high speed travel. While you may live and work in a totally urban environment with all needs within near walking distance.. a large segment of this country does not. This Leaf should have never been sold for use in this city, so you are correct, it doesn't work for me and it didn't work for the leasor either.. not here, where summertime temps routinely reach over 110 and AC is required for survival. The design power supply will run AC nicely.. but only give you about 40 miles of range, if you keep speeds below 40 MPH. Sorry for your burn.. but, here, it doesn't work. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 1:55 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: It burns me when people say something is bad when using it outside of the design specification. The Leaf is a city car, not a highway car. I'm sure you know that the force required to move something increases geometrically with an exponential increase in speed. The place where an electric car excels is when you sit in traffic. If the AC/heat/lights aren't on the electric car uses basically no energy at all or just the little. So its not that its a bad car, its a bad car for YOU. Where your diesel pickup is a bad vehicle for people who live in the city, it uses too much fuel, is too hard to navigate down little streets and is way too hard to park. Neither is a bad vehicle just bad when outside of their design parameters. -Curt From: G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 2:34 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious No heater, no AC, no lights. Just drove it at prevailing freeway traffic speed and watched the fuel gage drop like a rock at 70 mph... Unlike eastern cities, this city covers more land mass than New Jersey, so getting somewhere is measured in hours of travel rather than miles, often. If I lived somewhere that only required transport to the train station or subway for the commute to work.. then my decision would, I suppose, be to choose between suicide or driving a Leaf. Thankfully, I don't have to make either choice. I have free use of the Leaf for next 2 months because I have ample space to park it, and my friend who owns the lease would turn it in early if he could without incurring penalty, which he can't. Frankly, it is not a practical car in this state. I will plug it in to keep the batteries charged and it will now set. I'm done with the hassle of it after this one excursion. My time has more value than waiting for it to charge up so I can be left dead on the destination end of the next trip. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Hey Grant - did you have the AC or heater running by any chance? On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I drove a Leaf last fall when we were looking at pickup trucks. The kid didn't miss a beat when I went from driving a Nissan Titan to the Leaf. As a car I enjoyed it, it was reasonably quick and fairly quiet. Yes its ugly but its not really all that small compared to the real crapboxes like the Versa. I'm surprised to hear about 28 miles. We drove about 10 miles up a big hill and back down made enough power that the car only showed about 1% drop in capacity. I didn't thrash on it though I didn't drive it super conservatively either and we ran the AC. The kid at the dealership where we
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
No heater, no AC, no lights. Just drove it at prevailing freeway traffic speed and watched the fuel gage drop like a rock at 70 mph... Unlike eastern cities, this city covers more land mass than New Jersey, so getting somewhere is measured in hours of travel rather than miles, often. If I lived somewhere that only required transport to the train station or subway for the commute to work.. then my decision would, I suppose, be to choose between suicide or driving a Leaf. Thankfully, I don't have to make either choice. I have free use of the Leaf for next 2 months because I have ample space to park it, and my friend who owns the lease would turn it in early if he could without incurring penalty, which he can't. Frankly, it is not a practical car in this state. I will plug it in to keep the batteries charged and it will now set. I'm done with the hassle of it after this one excursion. My time has more value than waiting for it to charge up so I can be left dead on the destination end of the next trip. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Hey Grant - did you have the AC or heater running by any chance? On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I drove a Leaf last fall when we were looking at pickup trucks. The kid didn't miss a beat when I went from driving a Nissan Titan to the Leaf. As a car I enjoyed it, it was reasonably quick and fairly quiet. Yes its ugly but its not really all that small compared to the real crapboxes like the Versa. I'm surprised to hear about 28 miles. We drove about 10 miles up a big hill and back down made enough power that the car only showed about 1% drop in capacity. I didn't thrash on it though I didn't drive it super conservatively either and we ran the AC. The kid at the dealership where we tested has one and says he regularly gets around 80 miles, its rated for 110 I think. 110v charging will always be very slow, 220v is of course much faster but more than twice as fast in practice I'm given to understand. The 440v chargers are astounding, 0-80% in as little as 20 minutes. A friend has an electric Fiat, she had to pay $3000 down on the lease but its $100/mo and California gives her a $2500 rebate. If I could get a deal like that I'd be all over it, Angie only commutes about 10 miles each way... -Curt From: G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2015 9:51 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] [ SPAM ] Re: Park your Toyota Pious Anyone here have any interest in a Nissan Leaf? I was given one to drive for the next two months until the lease expires. 17,000 miles of silent battery driving, all in town, since the effective range is about 80 miles before either a tow or recharge. I made a quick trip to the airport two days ago, in freeway traffic at 70mph, starting with a full charge and 28 miles later arrived at the airport with a total of 8 miles available showing on the remaining fuel meter ... Put the car in my hanger and plugged it in to the available 110V service and after only 18 hrs of charge on 110 it was back up to 85% charge.. so I drove it home [house in town] on city streets only, no AC on, no speed above 35 mph... arrived with a bit over 39% charge remaining It is, I believe, the most expensive golf cart I've ever driven Like my lawyer friend who owns the lease and got stuck twice on way to court hearings because the summer heat killed the charge [you don't show up late to court.. ever] I'm sure if I used it for anything but going to the supermarket I will grow to hate it.. On reflection.. I already do hate it.. It's even a special design ugly kind of styling [to my eye anyway]. On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 3:25 PM, Mountain Man via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Peter wrote: Blind people hate Piouses I bet they also hate the Volt and also Tesla and Smart. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
So a little while ago I rode my bike down to the beach and was coming home. I only have to go in a road for a coupla hundred feet, mostly through a rotary/roundabout, the rest is bike path or a median for a short ways. So I am going through the rotary, the law says I am entitled to a lane, or a vehicle shall pass safely where possible. So as I go to exit the rotary onto the road I see, out the back corner of my eye, a black bumper about 4 inches from my back wheel, attempting to pass me and turn on the same road. I yell and the car backs off. Then I get onto the road, and immediately into the center median away from the vehicle lanes, and a Pious passes me running on battery. So I never heard the thing as the woman was attempting to run me over. Nice. That has happened to me in parking lots too, people in those things attempting to go around when they should just wait and follow, and they can't be heard AT ALL. Like 15 seconds is going to postpone their world-changing mission. --R What about blind people? I propose that electric vehicles should have the equivalent of the card clipped to the bicycle to make noise on the spokes. It should have faster noise as the wheel goes faster, thereby giving both audible signal of the presence of the pious, and an indication of relative speed. (pious meaning electric vehicle, not just one brand called Pious) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Park your Toyota Pious
So a little while ago I rode my bike down to the beach and was coming home. I only have to go in a road for a coupla hundred feet, mostly through a rotary/roundabout, the rest is bike path or a median for a short ways. So I am going through the rotary, the law says I am entitled to a lane, or a vehicle shall pass safely where possible. So as I go to exit the rotary onto the road I see, out the back corner of my eye, a black bumper about 4 inches from my back wheel, attempting to pass me and turn on the same road. I yell and the car backs off. Then I get onto the road, and immediately into the center median away from the vehicle lanes, and a Pious passes me running on battery. So I never heard the thing as the woman was attempting to run me over. Nice. That has happened to me in parking lots too, people in those things attempting to go around when they should just wait and follow, and they can't be heard AT ALL. Like 15 seconds is going to postpone their world-changing mission. --R On 4/26/15 2:35 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote: I will try to carry such an honor forward by not applying for the Darwin Award any time soon.. ;)) TYVM.. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
