Re: [MBZ] SATA controller?
Yep. That's basically it. The drives may or may not have the 4-Pin Molex power receptacle you see on IDE drives and may or may not come with a power adapter. Make sure you have the right adapter if you are installing bare drives without plugging them into a backplane. Here is an example of an adapter: http://cgi.ebay.com/4-Pin-IDE-to-Serial-ATA-SATA-Power-Adapter-Cable_W0QQitemZ250412048321QQihZ015QQcategoryZ74941QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem If you don't want to order from Hong Kong, these people have them for $0.80 each: http://www.amazon.com/Cables-Go-Power-cable-internal/dp/B000234OEI/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8s=electronicsqid=1240603469sr=8-1 Then you need data cable(s) Individual data cables are ~ $1 each with shipping: http://cgi.ebay.com/Serial-ATA-SATA-RAID-DATA-HDD-Hard-Drive-CDROM-Cable_W0QQitemZ220384587121QQihZ012QQcategoryZ74941QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem If you have a case with a backplane (typically rackmount) then you have to make sure the data cable ends match. Once you go above 4-12 drives, everyone uses one of several multi-drive cable types. Here is a good site showing the basics: http://cooldrives.stores.yahoo.net/saiandsaiiin.html Then there are 4 different MultiLane cable types that handle 4 or 8 drives apiece. If you use a controller with a multilane connector and don't have a case with a backplane, you need fan-out cable(s) to go to individual drives. Fan-out cables need to match the connector on the board. Be careful because some are pinned to fanout from the controller card, others are pinned to fan out from the backplane. Amazon has a good price on 1.5Tb SATA Drives - $127 http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Barracuda-7200-11-Cache-ST31500341AS/dp/B00066IJPQ/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8s=electronicsqid=1240603086sr=8-1 Those come without power or data cables. They do not have the Molex power receptacle - you need a sata power connector. The 2Tb drive are still a bit pricey at ~ $300. http://www.amazon.com/Western-Digital-Caviar-Green-WD20EADS/dp/B001RB1TIS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8s=electronicsqid=1240604141sr=1-1 The early 1.5Tb Segate's were buggy. You need to update the firmware on them. Amazon is currently selling the fixed version. All the ones I saw that needed updating came from Dell. If you are thinking about getting a large drive - better plan on getting 2 and backing up one to the other periodically. 1.5 Tb is an insane amount of space - but it's an even bigger amount of data to lose. We now archive only to SATA at work. They are faster, cheaper, and more reliable than tape. HTH -Dave Walton On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 3:39 PM, LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: Hey Dave -- That sounds really good! Help me understand what the PCI card will do. I can install the card then run power Data wires to SATA drives installed inside my desktop case, right? That sounds like just the thing! ATA IDE HDs are becoming more hard to find in large capacities. Most are 200gb or less. SATA though is very different - even sizes up to 1TB are in the $100-$130 range, and these will really add to internal storage. Thx for the help Dave - Appreciate it - LarryT Porsche Posters!! And Oil Analysis at youroil.net. - Original Message - From: dave walton walton.d...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] SATA controller? You may actually get better performance from software raid - depending on your processor and if you need to be doing anything else while copying files. Here is a 4-port SIL card for $19 including shipping - http://cgi.ebay.com/4-Port-SATA-PCI-Raid-Controller-Card-Adapter-SIL3114-5V_W0QQitemZ350167691880QQihZ022QQcategoryZ90717QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Or get an 8-port 3Ware for $165 - http://cgi.ebay.com/3Ware-9500S-8-8-Ports-Sata-Raid-Controller-Card-W-128_W0QQitemZ270378262353QQihZ017QQcategoryZ56091QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem The 3Ware should work in a shorter card slot if there is room for the unused connectors to dangle above the motherboard. No harm in having more ports than you need at the moment. Chances are you will end up using them. If you are considering running the 3Ware 9500S in a shorter slot, let me know and I'll test it here. Will only take a few minutes. -Dave Walton On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 9:22 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: But I don't want RAID 10, it wastes too much space and costs half my speed. I NEED speed and I NEED space, what I don't need is data security, I'm gonna capture from timecoded tape, if the data goes away I can get it back, no big whoop. Like I wrote in a different post video is a different world. I'd forgotten to look at Newegg, they have a good selection of controllers. For my needs it looks like http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816150021 might be acceptable. I agree that I don't want a super cheap controller but SIIG is a good name
Re: [MBZ] SATA controller?
On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 5:44 AM, dave walton walton.d...@gmail.com wrote: The drives may or may not have the 4-Pin Molex power receptacle you see on IDE drives and may or may not come with a power adapter. Make sure you have the right adapter if you are installing bare drives without plugging them into a backplane. Here is an example of an adapter: I have come to the decision, that with all this talk of hard drives, that all the listers just need to buy one of these: http://www.supermicro.com/products/chassis/2U/216/SC216A-R900LP.cfm and be done with it. mm .. 2U 24x 2.5 SAS/SATA (and SAS is Serial Attached SCSI. It's good stuff) EdB -- I'm a Night Elf Mohawk! - Mr. T. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] SATA controller?
Hey Dave -- That sounds really good! Help me understand what the PCI card will do. I can install the card then run power Data wires to SATA drives installed inside my desktop case, right?That sounds like just the thing! ATA IDE HDs are becoming more hard to find in large capacities. Most are 200gb or less. SATA though is very different - even sizes up to 1TB are in the $100-$130 range, and these will really add to internal storage. Thx for the help Dave - Appreciate it - LarryT Porsche Posters!! And Oil Analysis at youroil.net. - Original Message - From: dave walton walton.d...@gmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] SATA controller? You may actually get better performance from software raid - depending on your processor and if you need to be doing anything else while copying files. Here is a 4-port SIL card for $19 including shipping - http://cgi.ebay.com/4-Port-SATA-PCI-Raid-Controller-Card-Adapter-SIL3114-5V_W0QQitemZ350167691880QQihZ022QQcategoryZ90717QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Or get an 8-port 3Ware for $165 - http://cgi.ebay.com/3Ware-9500S-8-8-Ports-Sata-Raid-Controller-Card-W-128_W0QQitemZ270378262353QQihZ017QQcategoryZ56091QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem The 3Ware should work in a shorter card slot if there is room for the unused connectors to dangle above the motherboard. No harm in having more ports than you need at the moment. Chances are you will end up using them. If you are considering running the 3Ware 9500S in a shorter slot, let me know and I'll test it here. Will only take a few minutes. -Dave Walton On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 9:22 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: But I don't want RAID 10, it wastes too much space and costs half my speed. I NEED speed and I NEED space, what I don't need is data security, I'm gonna capture from timecoded tape, if the data goes away I can get it back, no big whoop. Like I wrote in a different post video is a different world. I'd forgotten to look at Newegg, they have a good selection of controllers. For my needs it looks like http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816150021 might be acceptable. I agree that I don't want a super cheap controller but SIIG is a good name, wish it had 4 ports. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816122015 This Sonnet card does, I've heard good things about them but never used their products. This discussion has helped me to narrow down my requirements, I'd like a 4 port card, hardware RAID is unnecessary, and I'd like to have the price around $100. -Curt Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 20:47:24 -0500 From: Tom Hargrave tharg...@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: [MBZ] SATA controller? To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: 093b01c9c3b5$7322b0c0$3400a...@tomrmkj2yanjy9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1250 Curt, The best setup is a RAID 10 with 4, 6 or 8 drives. Stay away from the cheap controllers - they are junk. Also, you want a true hardware RAID controller. Here's a good one for 2 drives: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816116030 If you want to get real serious, here's a 12 port RAID card that should perform well: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816116057 Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com http://www.kegkits.com/JABF/ 256-656-1924 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090423/7e29ba32/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] SATA controller?
Whaa? I've got a 300GB IDE drive in this computer right now. SCSI harddrives basically maxed out at 146GB... I've seen IDE drives up to 500GB but not larger. -Curt Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 15:39:34 -0400 From: LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net Subject: Re: [MBZ] SATA controller? To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: ed9ea6d404f04ebeb97a71f325bbf...@larrypc Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Hey Dave -- That sounds really good! Help me understand what the PCI card will do. I can install the card then run power Data wires to SATA drives installed inside my desktop case, right? That sounds like just the thing! ATA IDE HDs are becoming more hard to find in large capacities. Most are 200gb or less. SATA though is very different - even sizes up to 1TB are in the $100-$130 range, and these will really add to internal storage. Thx for the help Dave - Appreciate it - LarryT Porsche Posters!! And Oil Analysis at youroil.net. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090424/f5092df8/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] SATA controller?
But I don't want RAID 10, it wastes too much space and costs half my speed. I NEED speed and I NEED space, what I don't need is data security, I'm gonna capture from timecoded tape, if the data goes away I can get it back, no big whoop. Like I wrote in a different post video is a different world. I'd forgotten to look at Newegg, they have a good selection of controllers. For my needs it looks like http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816150021 might be acceptable. I agree that I don't want a super cheap controller but SIIG is a good name, wish it had 4 ports. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816122015 This Sonnet card does, I've heard good things about them but never used their products. This discussion has helped me to narrow down my requirements, I'd like a 4 port card, hardware RAID is unnecessary, and I'd like to have the price around $100. -Curt Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 20:47:24 -0500 From: Tom Hargrave tharg...@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: [MBZ] SATA controller? To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: 093b01c9c3b5$7322b0c0$3400a...@tomrmkj2yanjy9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1250 Curt, The best setup is a RAID 10 with 4, 6 or 8 drives. Stay away from the cheap controllers - they are junk. Also, you want a true hardware RAID controller. Here's a good one for 2 drives: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816116030 If you want to get real serious, here's a 12 port RAID card that should perform well: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816116057 Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com http://www.kegkits.com/JABF/ 256-656-1924 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090423/7e29ba32/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] SATA controller?
You may actually get better performance from software raid - depending on your processor and if you need to be doing anything else while copying files. Here is a 4-port SIL card for $19 including shipping - http://cgi.ebay.com/4-Port-SATA-PCI-Raid-Controller-Card-Adapter-SIL3114-5V_W0QQitemZ350167691880QQihZ022QQcategoryZ90717QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Or get an 8-port 3Ware for $165 - http://cgi.ebay.com/3Ware-9500S-8-8-Ports-Sata-Raid-Controller-Card-W-128_W0QQitemZ270378262353QQihZ017QQcategoryZ56091QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem The 3Ware should work in a shorter card slot if there is room for the unused connectors to dangle above the motherboard. No harm in having more ports than you need at the moment. Chances are you will end up using them. If you are considering running the 3Ware 9500S in a shorter slot, let me know and I'll test it here. Will only take a few minutes. -Dave Walton On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 9:22 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: But I don't want RAID 10, it wastes too much space and costs half my speed. I NEED speed and I NEED space, what I don't need is data security, I'm gonna capture from timecoded tape, if the data goes away I can get it back, no big whoop. Like I wrote in a different post video is a different world. I'd forgotten to look at Newegg, they have a good selection of controllers. For my needs it looks like http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816150021 might be acceptable. I agree that I don't want a super cheap controller but SIIG is a good name, wish it had 4 ports. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816122015 This Sonnet card does, I've heard good things about them but never used their products. This discussion has helped me to narrow down my requirements, I'd like a 4 port card, hardware RAID is unnecessary, and I'd like to have the price around $100. -Curt Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 20:47:24 -0500 From: Tom Hargrave tharg...@hiwaay.net Subject: Re: [MBZ] SATA controller? To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: 093b01c9c3b5$7322b0c0$3400a...@tomrmkj2yanjy9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1250 Curt, The best setup is a RAID 10 with 4, 6 or 8 drives. Stay away from the cheap controllers - they are junk. Also, you want a true hardware RAID controller. Here's a good one for 2 drives: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816116030 If you want to get real serious, here's a 12 port RAID card that should perform well: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816116057 Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com http://www.kegkits.com/JABF/ 256-656-1924 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090423/7e29ba32/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] SATA controller?
By shorter you mean a 32bit slot as opposed to a 64bit? No worries I've got 3 64 bit slots I can use. I like the 3ware card, like the price, like the option of RAID 5 although its not something I critically require, like 4 ports and have had good luck with 3ware in the past. In fact we use some of their cards in systems at work. Cool, now I just need to buy it. -Curt Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:45:22 -0400 From: dave walton walton.d...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] SATA controller? To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: 1ec5633a0904230645x1596ad11r5dac285ef3f32...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 You may actually get better performance from software raid - depending on your processor and if you need to be doing anything else while copying files. Here is a 4-port SIL card for $19 including shipping - http://cgi.ebay.com/4-Port-SATA-PCI-Raid-Controller-Card-Adapter-SIL3114-5V_W0QQitemZ350167691880QQihZ022QQcategoryZ90717QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Or get an 8-port 3Ware for $165 - http://cgi.ebay.com/3Ware-9500S-8-8-Ports-Sata-Raid-Controller-Card-W-128_W0QQitemZ270378262353QQihZ017QQcategoryZ56091QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem The 3Ware should work in a shorter card slot if there is room for the unused connectors to dangle above the motherboard. No harm in having more ports than you need at the moment. Chances are you will end up using them. If you are considering running the 3Ware 9500S in a shorter slot, let me know and I'll test it here. Will only take a few minutes. -Dave Walton -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090423/51049d4b/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] SATA controller?
Anybody got experience with add-on SATA controllers? I want to add a bunch of storage to one of my systems and eliminate a stack of SCSI external drives (They're LOUD) and SATA drives look like the cheaper/faster way to go, plus I've only got one open IDE slot. Now remember I'll be editing video on this system, a cheap/crappy controller isn't acceptable. And yes of course I want to do this on the cheap, well as cheap as possible anyway... -Curt -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090422/6ea630b1/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] SATA controller?
I've been using 3Ware. It works okay. Use the 9500S for PCI-X and the 9650SE for PCI-E. The main drawback to 3Ware is that they don't support VMWare ESX. They have a driver, but it sucks. If you want to run that you need to use Adaptec-SAS or Areca. But then you run into problems with the 2Tb limit of VMWare. I tried the Adaptec 3805. Works okay but does not have a 2Tb carving function so you have to run multiple small arrays under ESX. I've not tried Areca but have heard good things about them. I've had nothing but problems with Promise and Highpoint controllers, but that was a few years ago by now. Maybe they improved. I suspect not. For partitions 2Tb you need to use Guid not MBR volumes. That means you can't boot off the large partition unless you are running an Intel Itanium based system with it's special version of Windows. 3Ware 9650 has a feature to create a smaller boot partition from a large array that looks like it's own drive to Windows. That saves you from dedicating drives just to boot from. Also - beware of running very large Dynamic volumes under Vista. It does not like them. You need to use Windows 2003 or 2008 for that. I was trying to configure a 10Tb volume and it became corrupted when rebooting under Vista. I switched to Server 2008 and the problems went away. My largest array is 16 - 1.5Tb SATA drives that gives just under 19TB usable using Raid-6. I use that for organizing backups before I archive them. I get 3-5 Gig per minute throughput if I turn on write caching. I'm lucky to get 1Gpm with caching off. I got the Adaptec 3805 (8-port) for $300 on eBay with the battery backup module. I've seen the 3Ware 9650SE 16 port go for $500. You definitely need the BBU. I've already lost one array when a machine blue-screened under heavy IO and did not have one installed. All the controllers support adding additional drives and migrating the array to include them so you can increase capacity. 3Ware also supports incrementally swapping drives out for larger capacity ones, but you need a custom script from Support to expand the array to include the extra space. I've not tried that yet. Keep in mind that the cluster size you start with has to accommodate the largest partition size you will use. That is to say that you can't format with a 512 byte cluster and later expand to a partition 2Tb. So I started out my 19Tb partition with an 8192 byte cluster even though I did not have all 16 drives in the initial configuration. On a final note, getting data in and out of a large array can take a while. I started using USB 2.0 external SATA Docking stations, but they maxed out at ~ 20 Mb/sec. I switched to ESATA and that number rose to 50 - 80 Mb/sec depending on the drive. HTH -Dave Walton On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote: Anybody got experience with add-on SATA controllers? I want to add a bunch of storage to one of my systems and eliminate a stack of SCSI external drives (They're LOUD) and SATA drives look like the cheaper/faster way to go, plus I've only got one open IDE slot. Now remember I'll be editing video on this system, a cheap/crappy controller isn't acceptable. And yes of course I want to do this on the cheap, well as cheap as possible anyway... -Curt -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090422/6ea630b1/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] SATA controller?
Curt, The best setup is a RAID 10 with 4, 6 or 8 drives. Stay away from the cheap controllers - they are junk. Also, you want a true hardware RAID controller. Here's a good one for 2 drives: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816116030 If you want to get real serious, here's a 12 port RAID card that should perform well: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816116057 Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com http://www.kegkits.com/JABF/ 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Curt Raymond Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:36 PM To: Diesel List Subject: [MBZ] SATA controller? Anybody got experience with add-on SATA controllers? I want to add a bunch of storage to one of my systems and eliminate a stack of SCSI external drives (They're LOUD) and SATA drives look like the cheaper/faster way to go, plus I've only got one open IDE slot. Now remember I'll be editing video on this system, a cheap/crappy controller isn't acceptable. And yes of course I want to do this on the cheap, well as cheap as possible anyway... -Curt -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090422/6e a630b1/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.12.2/2072 - Release Date: 4/21/2009 4:48 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.557 / Virus Database: 270.12.2/2072 - Release Date: 4/21/2009 4:48 PM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] SATA controller?
Wow, thats a great reply thanks, though those cards are probably way more serious than I need. The computer they'd go into is an old HP xw8000 I salvaged from work. I don't care for anything other than RAID 0 for my use, all my material will be from timecode source so if it goes away I just redigitize... When you say 1 Gig per minute, you're meaning 16.6MB/s? (or 17 I guess if your GB is 1024MB). Thats not really fast enough for what I want you're using these in a server sort of environment? Video is really a world unto itself. I'd want to do 2 streams of uncompressed SD at least, 3 would be better so I'll need 50-75MB/s sustained throughput, 4 SATA drives should be able to handle that pretty easily. My 4 SCSI drives will do 6. I don't need huge storage at home 2TB would be plenty. If I get a really big project I could use a system at work. The big system in my classroom is 32TB and capable of 400MB/s. It scales all the way up to 384TB which would be 4800MB/s total bandwidth. With a 10Gb connection we've clocked clients at 500MB/s... Its pretty amazing. You're right about USB 2, it sucks for data transfer, firewire 400 is faster. USB 2 is bus adjudicated too so if you've got a USB 2 printer it'll suck up half the bandwidth, got a USB 2 scanner? Then each device gets 1/3 the bandwidth if its doing something or not... Cruel joke that USB 2. -Curt Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 17:06:25 -0400 From: dave walton walton.d...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] SATA controller? To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: 1ec5633a0904221406r68d97fb9mc73216e88b569...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I've been using 3Ware. It works okay. Use the 9500S for PCI-X and the 9650SE for PCI-E. The main drawback to 3Ware is that they don't support VMWare ESX. They have a driver, but it sucks. If you want to run that you need to use Adaptec-SAS or Areca. But then you run into problems with the 2Tb limit of VMWare. I tried the Adaptec 3805. Works okay but does not have a 2Tb carving function so you have to run multiple small arrays under ESX. I've not tried Areca but have heard good things about them. I've had nothing but problems with Promise and Highpoint controllers, but that was a few years ago by now. Maybe they improved. I suspect not. For partitions 2Tb you need to use Guid not MBR volumes. That means you can't boot off the large partition unless you are running an Intel Itanium based system with it's special version of Windows. 3Ware 9650 has a feature to create a smaller boot partition from a large array that looks like it's own drive to Windows. That saves you from dedicating drives just to boot from. Also - beware of running very large Dynamic volumes under Vista. It does not like them. You need to use Windows 2003 or 2008 for that. I was trying to configure a 10Tb volume and it became corrupted when rebooting under Vista. I switched to Server 2008 and the problems went away. My largest array is 16 - 1.5Tb SATA drives that gives just under 19TB usable using Raid-6. I use that for organizing backups before I archive them. I get 3-5 Gig per minute throughput if I turn on write caching. I'm lucky to get 1Gpm with caching off. I got the Adaptec 3805 (8-port) for $300 on eBay with the battery backup module. I've seen the 3Ware 9650SE 16 port go for $500. You definitely need the BBU. I've already lost one array when a machine blue-screened under heavy IO and did not have one installed. All the controllers support adding additional drives and migrating the array to include them so you can increase capacity. 3Ware also supports incrementally swapping drives out for larger capacity ones, but you need a custom script from Support to expand the array to include the extra space. I've not tried that yet. Keep in mind that the cluster size you start with has to accommodate the largest partition size you will use. That is to say that you can't format with a 512 byte cluster and later expand to a partition 2Tb. So I started out my 19Tb partition with an 8192 byte cluster even though I did not have all 16 drives in the initial configuration. On a final note, getting data in and out of a large array can take a while. I started using USB 2.0 external SATA Docking stations, but they maxed out at ~ 20 Mb/sec. I switched to ESATA and that number rose to 50 - 80 Mb/sec depending on the drive. HTH -Dave Walton -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20090422/ba20fdb5/attachment.html ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] SATA controller?
I forgot to mention - if you want better read write speed, go with RAID 1 with 10K RPM drives. You will get 33% better read and write speed. Add another drive to for a three drive RAID 1 and you'll gain another 25%. A 4th drive will add about 20% better performance. RAID 10 is the best of both worlds. I'm running a six drive RAID 10 at a local Dominos franchise. I partitioned a 80 GIG boot drive on the RAID and formatting took 45 seconds! Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com http://www.kegkits.com/JABF/ 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Tom Hargrave Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 11:52 PM To: 'Curt Raymond'; 'Diesel List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] SATA controller? RAID 6 is a more secure RAID 5. RAID 6 calculates and writes double the checksum blocks that RAID 5 writes. Both RAID 5 and 6 suffer a performance penalty. This is why RAID 5 and 6 controllers have cache, to make up for some of the performance hit. Even with the buffer, many RAID 5 and 6 arrays perform worse than the single drives they are made of. I suggest building a good RAID 0 from two 10K RPM drives and a good controller. Write speed will be the same but you will have a 33 percent read speed improvement. Thanks, Tom 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com To: Diesel List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 4/22/09 9:32 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] SATA controller? Wow, thats a great reply thanks, though those cards are probably way more serious than I need. The computer they'd go into is an old HP xw8000 I salvaged from work. I don't care for anything other than RAID 0 for my use, all my material will be from timecode source so if it goes away I just redigitize... When you say 1 Gig per minute, you're meaning 16.6MB/s? (or 17 I guess if your GB is 1024MB). Thats not really fast enough for what I want you're using these in a server sort of environment? Video is really a world unto itself. I'd want to do 2 streams of uncompressed SD at least, 3 would be better so I'll need 50-75MB/s sustained throughput, 4 SATA drives should be able to handle that pretty easily. My 4 SCSI drives will do 6. I don't need huge storage at home 2TB would be plenty. If I get a really big project I could use a system at work. The big system in my classroom is 32TB and capable of 400MB/s. It scales all the way up to 384TB which would be 4800MB/s total bandwidth. With a 10Gb connection we've clocked clients at 500MB/s... Its pretty amazing. You're right about USB 2, it sucks for data transfer, firewire 400 is faster. USB 2 is bus adjudicated too so if you've got a USB 2 printer it'll suck up half the bandwidth, got a USB 2 scanner? Then each device gets 1/3 the bandwidth if its doing something or not... Cruel joke that USB 2. -Curt Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 17:06:25 -0400 From: dave walton walton.d...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] SATA controller? To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: 1ec5633a0904221406r68d97fb9mc73216e88b569...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I've been using 3Ware. It works okay. Use the 9500S for PCI-X and the 9650SE for PCI-E. The main drawback to 3Ware is that they don't support VMWare ESX. They have a driver, but it sucks. If you want to run that you need to use Adaptec-SAS or Areca. But then you run into problems with the 2Tb limit of VMWare. I tried the Adaptec 3805. Works okay but does not have a 2Tb carving function so you have to run multiple small arrays under ESX. I've not tried Areca but have heard good things about them. I've had nothing but problems with Promise and Highpoint controllers, but that was a few years ago by now. Maybe they improved. I suspect not. For partitions 2Tb you need to use Guid not MBR volumes. That means you can't boot off the large partition unless you are running an Intel Itanium based system with it's special version of Windows. 3Ware 9650 has a feature to create a smaller boot partition from a large array that looks like it's own drive to Windows. That saves you from dedicating drives just to boot from. Also - beware of running very large Dynamic volumes under Vista. It does not like them. You need to use Windows 2003 or 2008 for that. I was trying to configure a 10Tb volume and it became corrupted when rebooting under Vista. I switched to Server 2008 and the problems went away. My largest array is 16 - 1.5Tb SATA drives that gives just under 19TB usable using Raid-6. I use that for organizing backups before I archive them. I get 3-5 Gig per minute throughput if I turn on write caching. I'm lucky to get 1Gpm with caching off. I got the Adaptec 3805 (8-port) for $300 on eBay with the battery backup module. I've seen the 3Ware 9650SE 16 port go for $500. You definitely need the BBU. I've already lost one array when a machine blue-screened under heavy IO and did not have one installed. All the controllers support adding
