Re: [MBZ] Test Refrigerant

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

Iirc Jim Cathy said it's "wet" which made it unsuitable for use in AC systems. 
I've found the stuff in 20# cans to be oily which can clog up gas jets in 
heaters. We refill 1# cans for the Mr Heater at camp and about once a year I 
have to clean the jets...
Curt

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 at 11:47 AM, Curley McLain via 
Mercedes wrote:   Is the kind they pump into your 20 lb 
tank the same, or do they pawn off 
some low grade crap for BBQ grills and forklifts?  I am guessing the 
tank exchange IS low grade crap.

> Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
> November 27, 2016 at 10:21 AM
> Commercial grade propane.
> It's the highest common everyday grade (refrigerant grade R-290 isn't that
> common)
> In most states not named California, HD5 is the only grade that's 
> legal for sale
> as home heating propane.
> Mitch.
>
>

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Re: [MBZ] Test Refrigerant

[Jon Agne via Mercedes]

I just noticed that they do not call it R-12A any longer.  It’s R-134A.  
Probably some rule about not being to replace anything in an R-12 system.

Jon


> On Nov 27, 2016, at 11:21 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Commercial grade propane. 
> It's the highest common everyday grade (refrigerant grade R-290 isn't that
> common)
> In most states not named California, HD5 is the only grade that's legal for 
> sale
> as home heating propane. 
> Mitch. 
> 
>> On November 27, 2016 at 11:07 AM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> What is "HD5"?
>> 
>> --FT
>> 
>> 
>> On 11/27/16 10:49 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote:
>>> That's the advantage of Cathey Special Blend.
>>> If it leaks, just add propane until the pressures are good again.
>>> 
>>> BTW, I was looking at Linde Gas this morning, and they claimed their R290
>>> was
>>> 97.5% propane. Any reason why I should pay dollars per pound for 97%
>>> refrigerant
>>> grade when I get pounds per dollar of HD5 which is guaranteed to be 90% or
>>> higher, with up to 5% butanes and methane and 5% propylene? I already have
>>> over
>>> 3000lb of HD5 in bulk (500 gallon) cylinders. The only thing that might be
>>> bothersome is the 0-5% propylene.
>>> 
>>> Mitch.
>>> 
 On November 27, 2016 at 10:39 AM "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
  wrote:
 
 
 I have tried this and duracool and I just do not like the blends. If you
 have
 any sort of leak at all the different elements leak at different rates
 which
 changes the mix and it does not cool.
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> --FT
>> Winston Churchill:
>> “Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large
>> or petty,
>> never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
>> Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the
>> enemy.”
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Test Refrigerant

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

You can cook with HD10 but you really need HD5 for your forklift if you don't
like gummy piston rings. 

http://www.propane101.com/propanegradesandquality.htm

> On November 27, 2016 at 11:47 AM Curley McLain via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Is the kind they pump into your 20 lb tank the same, or do they pawn off 
> some low grade crap for BBQ grills and forklifts?  I am guessing the 
> tank exchange IS low grade crap.

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Re: [MBZ] Test Refrigerant

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

Is the kind they pump into your 20 lb tank the same, or do they pawn off 
some low grade crap for BBQ grills and forklifts?  I am guessing the 
tank exchange IS low grade crap.



Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
November 27, 2016 at 10:21 AM
Commercial grade propane.
It's the highest common everyday grade (refrigerant grade R-290 isn't that
common)
In most states not named California, HD5 is the only grade that's 
legal for sale

as home heating propane.
Mitch.




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Re: [MBZ] Test Refrigerant

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Commercial grade propane. 
It's the highest common everyday grade (refrigerant grade R-290 isn't that
common)
In most states not named California, HD5 is the only grade that's legal for sale
as home heating propane. 
Mitch. 

> On November 27, 2016 at 11:07 AM Floyd Thursby via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> What is "HD5"?
> 
> --FT
> 
> 
> On 11/27/16 10:49 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote:
> > That's the advantage of Cathey Special Blend.
> > If it leaks, just add propane until the pressures are good again.
> >
> > BTW, I was looking at Linde Gas this morning, and they claimed their R290
> > was
> > 97.5% propane. Any reason why I should pay dollars per pound for 97%
> > refrigerant
> > grade when I get pounds per dollar of HD5 which is guaranteed to be 90% or
> > higher, with up to 5% butanes and methane and 5% propylene? I already have
> > over
> > 3000lb of HD5 in bulk (500 gallon) cylinders. The only thing that might be
> > bothersome is the 0-5% propylene.
> >
> > Mitch.
> >
> >> On November 27, 2016 at 10:39 AM "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I have tried this and duracool and I just do not like the blends. If you
> >> have
> >> any sort of leak at all the different elements leak at different rates
> >> which
> >> changes the mix and it does not cool.
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> 
> -- 
> --FT
> Winston Churchill:
> “Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large
> or petty,
> never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
> Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the
> enemy.”
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>

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Re: [MBZ] Test Refrigerant

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

What is "HD5"?

--FT


On 11/27/16 10:49 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote:

That's the advantage of Cathey Special Blend.
If it leaks, just add propane until the pressures are good again.

BTW, I was looking at Linde Gas this morning, and they claimed their R290 was
97.5% propane. Any reason why I should pay dollars per pound for 97% refrigerant
grade when I get pounds per dollar of HD5 which is guaranteed to be 90% or
higher, with up to 5% butanes and methane and 5% propylene? I already have over
3000lb of HD5 in bulk (500 gallon) cylinders. The only thing that might be
bothersome is the 0-5% propylene.

Mitch.


On November 27, 2016 at 10:39 AM "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
 wrote:


I have tried this and duracool and I just do not like the blends. If you have
any sort of leak at all the different elements leak at different rates which
changes the mix and it does not cool.

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--
--FT
Winston Churchill:
“Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large 
or petty,
never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the 
enemy.”

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Re: [MBZ] Test Refrigerant

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

That's the advantage of Cathey Special Blend. 
If it leaks, just add propane until the pressures are good again. 

BTW, I was looking at Linde Gas this morning, and they claimed their R290 was
97.5% propane. Any reason why I should pay dollars per pound for 97% refrigerant
grade when I get pounds per dollar of HD5 which is guaranteed to be 90% or
higher, with up to 5% butanes and methane and 5% propylene? I already have over
3000lb of HD5 in bulk (500 gallon) cylinders. The only thing that might be
bothersome is the 0-5% propylene.

Mitch. 

> On November 27, 2016 at 10:39 AM "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes"
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I have tried this and duracool and I just do not like the blends. If you have
> any sort of leak at all the different elements leak at different rates which
> changes the mix and it does not cool.

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Re: [MBZ] Test Refrigerant

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

I have tried this and duracool and I just do not like the blends. If you have 
any sort of leak at all the different elements leak at different rates which 
changes the mix and it does not cool. You can't simply top it up you have to 
discharge and start all over. You may not have had a leak leak before with r12 
or 134 but it is possible the blend could leak. If it was super cheap it would 
be ok but most of these seem to be expensive now days.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 27, 2016, at 7:44 AM, Jon Agne via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Hopefully this isn’t too far OT, but has anyone here ever tried Envirosafe 
> products?
> 
> http://www.es-refrigerants.com/products/w/id/14/t/refrigerant
> 
> Jon
> 
> 
>> On Nov 26, 2016, at 9:07 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I don't pre-mix.  You want ISO-butane.  Sold as high-altitude camping
>> fuel.  If you could premix, I suspect you'd need to charge from the bottom
>> of the bottle.
>> 
>> -- Jim
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
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>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Test Refrigerant

[Jon Agne via Mercedes]

I have also used it with excellent results!  When the compressor blew on the 
123 (totally unrelated to the ES-12) the mech used good AC parts from a 
recently wrecked 300CD and filled with R-12. That was in 2013, and I have not 
had to charge since.

I had some cans left over, so Dimitri and I put it into his ’78 240D with a 
York compressor, and I think he had ice cold air for almost a week.  It leaked 
out.  That’s next summer’s project.

Jon


> On Nov 27, 2016, at 8:57 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I’ve used the Industrial 12a-6 in my W126 and it did a great job.  My only 
> complaint was having to buy a case of the stuff as it was far cheaper than 
> just buying a few cans.
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
>> On Nov 27, 2016, at 8:44 AM, Jon Agne via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hopefully this isn’t too far OT, but has anyone here ever tried Envirosafe 
>> products?
>> 
>> http://www.es-refrigerants.com/products/w/id/14/t/refrigerant
>> 
>> Jon
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 26, 2016, at 9:07 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I don't pre-mix.  You want ISO-butane.  Sold as high-altitude camping
>>> fuel.  If you could premix, I suspect you'd need to charge from the bottom
>>> of the bottle.
>>> 
>>> -- Jim
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
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>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Test Refrigerant

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I’ve used the Industrial 12a-6 in my W126 and it did a great job.  My only 
complaint was having to buy a case of the stuff as it was far cheaper than just 
buying a few cans.

Dan


> On Nov 27, 2016, at 8:44 AM, Jon Agne via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Hopefully this isn’t too far OT, but has anyone here ever tried Envirosafe 
> products?
> 
> http://www.es-refrigerants.com/products/w/id/14/t/refrigerant
> 
> Jon
> 
> 
>> On Nov 26, 2016, at 9:07 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I don't pre-mix.  You want ISO-butane.  Sold as high-altitude camping
>> fuel.  If you could premix, I suspect you'd need to charge from the bottom
>> of the bottle.
>> 
>> -- Jim
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>> 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Test Refrigerant

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

What we're talking about here is Jim Cathey's homemade ES-12a, so you're right
on topic. 
I think Kaleb used to buy ES until he got some cylinders of R-12.
Mitch. 

> On November 27, 2016 at 8:44 AM Jon Agne via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hopefully this isn’t too far OT, but has anyone here ever tried Envirosafe
> products?
> 
> http://www.es-refrigerants.com/products/w/id/14/t/refrigerant

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Re: [MBZ] Test Refrigerant

[Jon Agne via Mercedes]

Hopefully this isn’t too far OT, but has anyone here ever tried Envirosafe 
products?

http://www.es-refrigerants.com/products/w/id/14/t/refrigerant

Jon


> On Nov 26, 2016, at 9:07 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I don't pre-mix.  You want ISO-butane.  Sold as high-altitude camping
> fuel.  If you could premix, I suspect you'd need to charge from the bottom
> of the bottle.
> 
> -- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] Test Refrigerant

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

I don't pre-mix.  You want ISO-butane.  Sold as high-altitude camping
fuel.  If you could premix, I suspect you'd need to charge from the bottom
of the bottle.

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] Test Refrigerant

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

that is my guess.  I don't know if you could safely pump it in with a 
vac pump.  I'd guess you could pump it in with an old refrigerator 
compressor with refrig valves soldered on.  Jim is the guru of test 
refrig.  Maybe he'll tell us.



Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
November 26, 2016 at 10:28 AM
How would it work?  Would the pressures allow the butane to flash into 
the propane tank, or to run in as a liquid?  Start off with an empty 
propane tank then get the butane in there, then add the proper amount 
of propane?


--FT (no gas tables at hand at the moment)






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Re: [MBZ] Test Refrigerant

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

The better camping gas has iso-butane in it. 
Butane is a bit low in the vapor pressure department for diluting propane
refrigerant. It doesn't even make decent lighter fuel in cold weather unless you
carry it in a warm pocket. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Test Refrigerant

[Floyd Thursby via Mercedes]

How would it work?  Would the pressures allow the butane to flash into 
the propane tank, or to run in as a liquid?  Start off with an empty 
propane tank then get the butane in there, then add the proper amount of 
propane?


--FT (no gas tables at hand at the moment)


On 11/26/16 11:23 AM, Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote:


In a Korean food store yesterday, I came across a 3 pack of large 
butane cans (16-20 oz) for $7.99


A better source of butane.

Is it practical to premix butane and propane in a 20 lb propane 
bottle?  That would be an easier way to use the test refrigerant.



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--
--FT
Winston Churchill:
“Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or 
petty,
never give in except to convictions of honor and good sense.
Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the 
enemy.”


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[MBZ] Test Refrigerant

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

In a Korean food store yesterday, I came across a 3 pack of large butane 
cans (16-20 oz) for $7.99


A better source of butane.

Is it practical to premix butane and propane in a 20 lb propane bottle?  
That would be an easier way to use the test refrigerant.



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Re: [MBZ] Test Refrigerant

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 7:13 PM, Rich Thomas
 wrote:
> I am quite able to improvise, but would rather not spend the time figuring
> it out and bodging it all up, reinventing the test refrigerant system yet
> again.  I promise not to sue you or your spawn.  I've got 134 gauges, a vac
> pump, a propane torch, a coupla old portable propane grills, etc.
>
>

It's too bad straight propane doesn't work as well as
propane+isobutane according to Jim's experiments.  If the former were
the case I bet you could find the parts at McMaster or somewhere to
make an adapter to hook a 1 lb propane bottle directly to the center
connection on the A/C gauge set.  That would be a nice tidy solution.

Or just order some ES-12 and be done with it.

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] Test Refrigerant

[Jim Cathey]

Well, I made a side-tapper out of a regular R12 tap,
a coathanger, and two vise-grips.  (Cut coathanger
wire to length and twist two loops on the ends, and
use the vise grips to clamp the loops together thus
trapping the can tap against the can.  One on each
side.  There, now it won't go anywhere and you pierce
the can and then charge.  Later I made a much more
convenient tap out of a camp stove that mates with
the test refrigerant can.)  The rest of the equipment
 was pretty normal, in procurement and use.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] Test Refrigerant

[Rich Thomas]

I am quite able to improvise, but would rather not spend the time 
figuring it out and bodging it all up, reinventing the test refrigerant 
system yet again.  I promise not to sue you or your spawn.  I've got 134 
gauges, a vac pump, a propane torch, a coupla old portable propane 
grills, etc.


--R

On 6/23/11 9:34 PM, Jim Cathey wrote:

You need R12 gauges, a vacuum pump (if you want to really
do it right), a side-tapper or else a fitting taken from a
thrift-shop camping stove like I did, a propane torch, and
some junkyard fittings and hoses.  I'm being deliberately
a bit vague, in that if you're not confidant in your ability
to improvise from that kind of description and my logs it
might be best not to do this kind of thing yourself.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] Test Refrigerant

[Jim Cathey]

You need R12 gauges, a vacuum pump (if you want to really
do it right), a side-tapper or else a fitting taken from a
thrift-shop camping stove like I did, a propane torch, and
some junkyard fittings and hoses.  I'm being deliberately
a bit vague, in that if you're not confidant in your ability
to improvise from that kind of description and my logs it
might be best not to do this kind of thing yourself.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] Test Refrigerant

[Mitch Haley]

http://tank.windwireless.net/~jimc/cwair.html

http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Atank.windwireless.net%2F~jimc%2F+test+refrigerant

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Re: [MBZ] Test Refrigerant

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 7:13 AM, Rich Thomas
 wrote:
> Suppose that someone might need to test an R12 system, on say an 84 300SD,
> with a test refrigerant.  Who might be able to provide an idiot's guide to
> doing that?

I can't believe I'm writing this, but the best "A/C for Dummies" guide
I have found was a $10 DVD near the checkstand at AutoZone.

Alex

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[MBZ] Test Refrigerant

[Rich Thomas]

Suppose that someone might need to test an R12 system, on say an 84 
300SD, with a test refrigerant.  Who might be able to provide an idiot's 
guide to doing that?  What equipment would be needed to connect up the 
test refrigerant container to the R12 system?  What sort of gauges would 
be needed to monitor this process?  Where does one get a test 
refrigerant?  One could know that the system was at one point BLOWING 
ICE COLD with R12 in it so that one would assume the system is generally 
in working order except that the refrigerant leaks out over time, such 
that a test refrigerant would help diagnose any disorders in the system 
prior to recharging with the proper refrigerant under all applicable 
laws and guidelines and such.


--R

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