Re: [MBZ] driveline timing

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Thanks for all the suggestions and comments.

I took this one to a different shop. My main man Herbert is over 80 and not
the fastest sometimes. This car is my primary transportation and the 88
560sel had a chunk of concrete fly through the grill taking everything out
back to the fan, so I needed the wagon back pronto.

Dan they did do a half shaft at the same time, so it could be either the
half shaft or the driveshaft. I thought driveshaft, because I figured that
was an easier mistake to make than the half shaft bolts. But who knows.
Probably my last time taking a car to these bozos.

I will run it up on ramps when I get home and find the dimples to see if
they are aligned. When I shortened the driveshaft on the 124 wagon I had to
find them. It should not be too hard to find these on the 123 with some PB
Blaster or carb
Cleaner to make them jump out.

South Texas is absolutely beautiful this time of year.

Karl

On Mon, Apr 10, 2023, 6:51 PM OK Don via Mercedes 
wrote:

> Verify that the center bearing support is actually bolted tightly in place?
> Same for the ends of the driveshaft?
>
> On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 4:38 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > On 10/04/2023 10:03 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes wrote:
> > >> see if one of your tires has a tread separation or something. It acts
> > fine
> > >> for an hour at 80mph then suddenly gets all shaky. Anyway I think it
> > must
> > >> be the driveline as braking and steering have no effect on it.
> > > My one experience with this problem, for sure, didn't have it being all
> > that
> > > intermittent.  See:
> > >
> > >   http://formicapeak.com/~jimc/JSLdline.html <
> > http://formicapeak.com/~jimc/JSLdline.html>
> > >
> > > Short version: the alignment matters, down to the spline level.  Some
> > drivelines
> > > are marked in the castings, some are not.  It is possible to recover
> > yourself,
> > > cheaply, with some work.
> > >
> > > -- Jim
> > >
> > > ___
> >
> > I agree with Jim. I wouldn't think that it would be an intermittent
> > issue if it was the drive shaft out of balance due to improper alignment
> > after repair. One would think it would shake all the time if that were
> > the case. Might shake worse at some speeds but one would think it would
> > have vibration all the time due to imbalance.
> >
> > I would look carefully for some other problem before going back to the
> > driveshaft.
> >
> > Is the engine still running smoothly when the vibration starts?
> >
> > Randy
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> >
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> "Quality of life is inversely proportional to the amount of clothing you
> are wearing."
>
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”
> Werner
> Von Braun
>
> "In science if you know what you are doing you should not be doing it.
> In engineering if you do not know what you are doing you should not be
> doing it."
> -- Richard W. Hamming, The Art of Doing Science and Engineering
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] driveline timing

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Verify that the center bearing support is actually bolted tightly in place?
Same for the ends of the driveshaft?

On Mon, Apr 10, 2023 at 4:38 PM Randy Bennell via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> On 10/04/2023 10:03 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes wrote:
> >> see if one of your tires has a tread separation or something. It acts
> fine
> >> for an hour at 80mph then suddenly gets all shaky. Anyway I think it
> must
> >> be the driveline as braking and steering have no effect on it.
> > My one experience with this problem, for sure, didn't have it being all
> that
> > intermittent.  See:
> >
> >   http://formicapeak.com/~jimc/JSLdline.html <
> http://formicapeak.com/~jimc/JSLdline.html>
> >
> > Short version: the alignment matters, down to the spline level.  Some
> drivelines
> > are marked in the castings, some are not.  It is possible to recover
> yourself,
> > cheaply, with some work.
> >
> > -- Jim
> >
> > ___
>
> I agree with Jim. I wouldn't think that it would be an intermittent
> issue if it was the drive shaft out of balance due to improper alignment
> after repair. One would think it would shake all the time if that were
> the case. Might shake worse at some speeds but one would think it would
> have vibration all the time due to imbalance.
>
> I would look carefully for some other problem before going back to the
> driveshaft.
>
> Is the engine still running smoothly when the vibration starts?
>
> Randy
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Quality of life is inversely proportional to the amount of clothing you
are wearing."

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Werner
Von Braun

"In science if you know what you are doing you should not be doing it.
In engineering if you do not know what you are doing you should not be
doing it."
-- Richard W. Hamming, The Art of Doing Science and Engineering
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] driveline timing

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 10/04/2023 10:03 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes wrote:

My one experience with this problem, for sure, didn't have it being all that
intermittent.  See:

http://formicapeak.com/~jimc/JSLdline.html 


Short version: the alignment matters, down to the spline level.  Some drivelines
are marked in the castings, some are not.  It is possible to recover yourself,
cheaply, with some work.

-- Jim


Jim

Your  description of the "lathe" and your process was an interesting read.

Randy


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] driveline timing

[Randy Bennell via Mercedes]

On 10/04/2023 10:03 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes wrote:

see if one of your tires has a tread separation or something. It acts fine
for an hour at 80mph then suddenly gets all shaky. Anyway I think it must
be the driveline as braking and steering have no effect on it.

My one experience with this problem, for sure, didn't have it being all that
intermittent.  See:

http://formicapeak.com/~jimc/JSLdline.html 


Short version: the alignment matters, down to the spline level.  Some drivelines
are marked in the castings, some are not.  It is possible to recover yourself,
cheaply, with some work.

-- Jim

___


I agree with Jim. I wouldn't think that it would be an intermittent 
issue if it was the drive shaft out of balance due to improper alignment 
after repair. One would think it would shake all the time if that were 
the case. Might shake worse at some speeds but one would think it would 
have vibration all the time due to imbalance.


I would look carefully for some other problem before going back to the 
driveshaft.


Is the engine still running smoothly when the vibration starts?

Randy


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] driveline timing

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

> see if one of your tires has a tread separation or something. It acts fine
> for an hour at 80mph then suddenly gets all shaky. Anyway I think it must
> be the driveline as braking and steering have no effect on it.

My one experience with this problem, for sure, didn't have it being all that
intermittent.  See:

http://formicapeak.com/~jimc/JSLdline.html 


Short version: the alignment matters, down to the spline level.  Some drivelines
are marked in the castings, some are not.  It is possible to recover yourself,
cheaply, with some work.

-- Jim

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] driveline timing

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

Boy! Not sure what I was doing there comprehension-wise…I was thinking about 
Craig’s new half shafts...

And yes, as Don says, you’ve got a driveshaft that is out of balance.

There is a dimple on the splines, but after years of service it can be near 
impossible to see. You can find it, but not easily all the time. Also look for 
possible marks from previous separations, if there were any.

And shame on the shop for not marking it before disassembly. That’s Driveline 
101.

-D

> On Apr 9, 2023, at 8:09 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> It's the drive shaft, not an axle shaft. IIRC, yes, those are some of the
> symptoms. I've read that there are supposed to be marks, dimples, or
> something for aligning the two halves, but I never could find them. I
> always marked before separating them when replacing the center bearing and
> housing.
> 
> On Sun, Apr 9, 2023 at 2:34 PM dan penoff.com via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> +1 for Allan.
>> 
>> Nothing balanced or matched on the rear axles that I’ve ever been aware
>> of. I would be looking for something out of alignment that might not allow
>> the halfshaft(s) to run true. Like a joint not tightened down all the way
>> around, maybe?
>> 
>> Also, is it across the board when it occurs or just on one side?
>> 
>> Did your German buddy do this work?
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>>> On Apr 9, 2023, at 3:27 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm not aware of a mark but there may be one. When I did my '83 I marked
>> the two halves so I could put them back together in the same orientation. A
>> rare case of thinking ahead for me.
>>> 
>>> I suppose another possibility is that the shop forgot to tighten
>> something properly, that's happened to me more than once.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Apr 9, 2023, at 14:22, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes wrote:
 Happy Easter to all the gentiles on the list.
 
 I know the driveshaft halves are balanced and that there is an alignment
 mark, but I had the shop drop a new hangar bearing donut into the 85 td
>> and
 since then it picked up an intermittent severe vibration which is a bit
 random at speeds between 55 and 65 but definitely makes you stop the
>> car to
 see if one of your tires has a tread separation or something. It acts
>> fine
 for an hour at 80mph then suddenly gets all shaky. Anyway I think it
>> must
 be the driveline as braking and steering have no effect on it. Anyone
>> else
 experience this? Kind of annoying to pay the shop and then have issues,
>> but
 serves me right I guess. It will go back to the shop but wondering if I
>> am
 thinking correctly about the symptoms.
 
 Thanks,
 Karl
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>> 
>>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>> 
>>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 
> "Quality of life is inversely proportional to the amount of clothing you
> are wearing."
> 
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
> 
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
> Von Braun
> 
> "In science if you know what you are doing you should not be doing it.
> In engineering if you do not know what you are doing you should not be
> doing it."
>-- Richard W. Hamming, The Art of Doing Science and Engineering
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] driveline timing

[OK Don via Mercedes]

It's the drive shaft, not an axle shaft. IIRC, yes, those are some of the
symptoms. I've read that there are supposed to be marks, dimples, or
something for aligning the two halves, but I never could find them. I
always marked before separating them when replacing the center bearing and
housing.

On Sun, Apr 9, 2023 at 2:34 PM dan penoff.com via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> +1 for Allan.
>
> Nothing balanced or matched on the rear axles that I’ve ever been aware
> of. I would be looking for something out of alignment that might not allow
> the halfshaft(s) to run true. Like a joint not tightened down all the way
> around, maybe?
>
> Also, is it across the board when it occurs or just on one side?
>
> Did your German buddy do this work?
>
> -D
>
> > On Apr 9, 2023, at 3:27 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > I'm not aware of a mark but there may be one. When I did my '83 I marked
> the two halves so I could put them back together in the same orientation. A
> rare case of thinking ahead for me.
> >
> > I suppose another possibility is that the shop forgot to tighten
> something properly, that's happened to me more than once.
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 9, 2023, at 14:22, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes wrote:
> >> Happy Easter to all the gentiles on the list.
> >>
> >> I know the driveshaft halves are balanced and that there is an alignment
> >> mark, but I had the shop drop a new hangar bearing donut into the 85 td
> and
> >> since then it picked up an intermittent severe vibration which is a bit
> >> random at speeds between 55 and 65 but definitely makes you stop the
> car to
> >> see if one of your tires has a tread separation or something. It acts
> fine
> >> for an hour at 80mph then suddenly gets all shaky. Anyway I think it
> must
> >> be the driveline as braking and steering have no effect on it. Anyone
> else
> >> experience this? Kind of annoying to pay the shop and then have issues,
> but
> >> serves me right I guess. It will go back to the shop but wondering if I
> am
> >> thinking correctly about the symptoms.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> Karl
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Quality of life is inversely proportional to the amount of clothing you
are wearing."

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun

"In science if you know what you are doing you should not be doing it.
In engineering if you do not know what you are doing you should not be
doing it."
-- Richard W. Hamming, The Art of Doing Science and Engineering
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] driveline timing

[dan penoff.com via Mercedes]

+1 for Allan.

Nothing balanced or matched on the rear axles that I’ve ever been aware of. I 
would be looking for something out of alignment that might not allow the 
halfshaft(s) to run true. Like a joint not tightened down all the way around, 
maybe?

Also, is it across the board when it occurs or just on one side?

Did your German buddy do this work?

-D

> On Apr 9, 2023, at 3:27 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I'm not aware of a mark but there may be one. When I did my '83 I marked the 
> two halves so I could put them back together in the same orientation. A rare 
> case of thinking ahead for me.
> 
> I suppose another possibility is that the shop forgot to tighten something 
> properly, that's happened to me more than once.
> 
> 
> On Sun, Apr 9, 2023, at 14:22, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes wrote:
>> Happy Easter to all the gentiles on the list.
>> 
>> I know the driveshaft halves are balanced and that there is an alignment
>> mark, but I had the shop drop a new hangar bearing donut into the 85 td and
>> since then it picked up an intermittent severe vibration which is a bit
>> random at speeds between 55 and 65 but definitely makes you stop the car to
>> see if one of your tires has a tread separation or something. It acts fine
>> for an hour at 80mph then suddenly gets all shaky. Anyway I think it must
>> be the driveline as braking and steering have no effect on it. Anyone else
>> experience this? Kind of annoying to pay the shop and then have issues, but
>> serves me right I guess. It will go back to the shop but wondering if I am
>> thinking correctly about the symptoms.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Karl
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

Re: [MBZ] driveline timing

[Allan Streib via Mercedes]

I'm not aware of a mark but there may be one. When I did my '83 I marked the 
two halves so I could put them back together in the same orientation. A rare 
case of thinking ahead for me.

I suppose another possibility is that the shop forgot to tighten something 
properly, that's happened to me more than once.


On Sun, Apr 9, 2023, at 14:22, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes wrote:
> Happy Easter to all the gentiles on the list.
>
> I know the driveshaft halves are balanced and that there is an alignment
> mark, but I had the shop drop a new hangar bearing donut into the 85 td and
> since then it picked up an intermittent severe vibration which is a bit
> random at speeds between 55 and 65 but definitely makes you stop the car to
> see if one of your tires has a tread separation or something. It acts fine
> for an hour at 80mph then suddenly gets all shaky. Anyway I think it must
> be the driveline as braking and steering have no effect on it. Anyone else
> experience this? Kind of annoying to pay the shop and then have issues, but
> serves me right I guess. It will go back to the shop but wondering if I am
> thinking correctly about the symptoms.
>
> Thanks,
> Karl
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

[MBZ] driveline timing

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

Happy Easter to all the gentiles on the list.

I know the driveshaft halves are balanced and that there is an alignment
mark, but I had the shop drop a new hangar bearing donut into the 85 td and
since then it picked up an intermittent severe vibration which is a bit
random at speeds between 55 and 65 but definitely makes you stop the car to
see if one of your tires has a tread separation or something. It acts fine
for an hour at 80mph then suddenly gets all shaky. Anyway I think it must
be the driveline as braking and steering have no effect on it. Anyone else
experience this? Kind of annoying to pay the shop and then have issues, but
serves me right I guess. It will go back to the shop but wondering if I am
thinking correctly about the symptoms.

Thanks,
Karl
___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com