Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
my son requires some expensive meds - thankfully he qualified and both are provided 100% free. He lives with us and cannot work - but the govt in its infinite wisdom refused to grant disability status even though *their* psychologist said he could not work part of a day much less a whole day. Anyway - the insurance companies proved to be easier to work with than the government. LarryT On 7/8/2012 9:38 AM, Dan Penoff wrote: There were two different meds he attempted to qualify for, one was made by Eli Lilly, I don't recall the other. Both programs pretty well eliminated you if you had any income of significance and no dependents. In his case, he would have had a better chance for eligibility had he been living under a bridge somewhere. His caregiver suggested that many of these programs are/were window dressing to make the drug companies appear to be benevolent. Upon close inspection, we found the ability to qualify was so narrow that few would be eligible. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jul 7, 2012, at 10:55 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Dan Penoff wrote: They had the stuff about we'll help you if you can't afford it, which was crap. Because he worked at the time, and when I say that I mean in the most menial fashion, as in food service, he was not eligible for their program. So while he barely brought in what the drug cost, he didn't qualify for their program. Thank goodness he had a caregiver who would collect samples and pass as many on to him as they could. I thought most of the free drug programs were based on low income, or 2.5x poverty level. OTOH, I'm sure they're less eager to give away $12k a year than $1k a year drugs. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
unfortunately those days are gone at most large companies ... LarryT On 7/8/2012 9:46 AM, Dan Penoff wrote: No. When I was growing up, and I kid you not, easily half of the adults on my block were ELC employees. It was known that if you could get on at ELC or Allison (transmission and jet engine manufacturer) you were pretty well set for life. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jul 7, 2012, at 6:39 PM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: Did you buy any ELC shares? ;) Dan Penoff lwb...@yahoo.com wrote: I grew up in Indianapolis, home to Eli Lilly Co., one of the largest domestic pharmaceutical companies. To say that ELC was a cash cow is an understatement. Most of that money comes from drugs they have developed and hold ownership to. One of them my oldest son was on, and it cost over $1,000/month. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
Don't get me started about SSI. That is the most screwed up bureaucratic mess there ever was. For example: Some good friends of ours have a son who has been totally blind since birth. This is medically established and has been since he was born. When they filed for SSI, he was rejected the first time. Why? Because everyone gets rejected the first time around, according to doctors and attorneys familiar with the system. Dan On Jul 9, 2012, at 11:14 AM, Larry T l02tur...@comcast.net wrote: my son requires some expensive meds - thankfully he qualified and both are provided 100% free. He lives with us and cannot work - but the govt in its infinite wisdom refused to grant disability status even though *their* psychologist said he could not work part of a day much less a whole day. Anyway - the insurance companies proved to be easier to work with than the government. LarryT On 7/8/2012 9:38 AM, Dan Penoff wrote: There were two different meds he attempted to qualify for, one was made by Eli Lilly, I don't recall the other. Both programs pretty well eliminated you if you had any income of significance and no dependents. In his case, he would have had a better chance for eligibility had he been living under a bridge somewhere. His caregiver suggested that many of these programs are/were window dressing to make the drug companies appear to be benevolent. Upon close inspection, we found the ability to qualify was so narrow that few would be eligible. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jul 7, 2012, at 10:55 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Dan Penoff wrote: They had the stuff about we'll help you if you can't afford it, which was crap. Because he worked at the time, and when I say that I mean in the most menial fashion, as in food service, he was not eligible for their program. So while he barely brought in what the drug cost, he didn't qualify for their program. Thank goodness he had a caregiver who would collect samples and pass as many on to him as they could. I thought most of the free drug programs were based on low income, or 2.5x poverty level. OTOH, I'm sure they're less eager to give away $12k a year than $1k a year drugs. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
On 07/07/2012 3:26 PM, Peter Frederick wrote: They are. Look at their profit statements and dividends. Price looks low due to the number of shares, not the profit of the company. Problem comes when they borrow immense amounts of money to buy each other, or when their drug goes off patent. Peter ___ OR, how about what happens when they have a drug failure and everyone wants a piece of them. Somewhat of a risky business. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
A doctor (whole practice actually, 4 or 5 doctors) we know started this deal where a family pays them $1500 annually and all the doctors visits are covered. Almost like they are forming their own insurance company. Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: There's a doctor in town here who doesn't take medicare, doesn't take insurance. Cash practice. I think I might give him a try. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
There were two different meds he attempted to qualify for, one was made by Eli Lilly, I don't recall the other. Both programs pretty well eliminated you if you had any income of significance and no dependents. In his case, he would have had a better chance for eligibility had he been living under a bridge somewhere. His caregiver suggested that many of these programs are/were window dressing to make the drug companies appear to be benevolent. Upon close inspection, we found the ability to qualify was so narrow that few would be eligible. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jul 7, 2012, at 10:55 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote: Dan Penoff wrote: They had the stuff about we'll help you if you can't afford it, which was crap. Because he worked at the time, and when I say that I mean in the most menial fashion, as in food service, he was not eligible for their program. So while he barely brought in what the drug cost, he didn't qualify for their program. Thank goodness he had a caregiver who would collect samples and pass as many on to him as they could. I thought most of the free drug programs were based on low income, or 2.5x poverty level. OTOH, I'm sure they're less eager to give away $12k a year than $1k a year drugs. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
When we were between insurers, the wife was able to negotiate her care with her rheumatism doctor. She gets shots to keep her hip pain to a minimum, and he was willing to work out a cash deal with her that was less expensive than when we had insurance. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jul 8, 2012, at 12:18 AM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net writes: Medicare pays something like $80. An auto mechanic charges more than that an hour, and has a lower salary, overhead, etc. Last time I visited the ER I got a bill for over $400 for the doc (who was in the room maybe 5 minutes), plus a separate bill from the hospital for the nurses/supplies. See where they make up the $80 medicare reimbursements? There's a doctor in town here who doesn't take medicare, doesn't take insurance. Cash practice. I think I might give him a try. Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
Good points. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jul 8, 2012, at 12:38 AM, G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com wrote: Question: Wouldn't the population be better served if the government offered to carry the education cost for anyone who wanted to become a doctor? I note that the much argued obama care generates some 20,000,000 new patients, some 16,000 new IRS agents to collect the fee/tax , but not one dime to create new doctors.. which we are short of even before the 20m new patients.. Who is running this country, anyway? Wouldn't it make sense to ease the burden to become a doctor, for those who met medical standards of study? How many billions did we spend to bail out the banks? How about if we spent that money to own and produce the common drugs that are impossible to afford and in high demand, as public domain? Just a thought or two.. I respectfully pass them to greater minds for deliberation. Grant... On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 6:59 PM, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: Well here is what my wife says. She has a patient who comes in with some sort of follow-up for cancer. Patient understandably has a lot of questions, and the fam is there too for moral support and to ask questions, take notes, keep track of stuff because a cancer patient does not have a lot of mental energy to put into that sort of thing, often confused, so the appt ends up being 45min-1hr. Then after that she has to write up orders for this and that follow-up and procedures and what not. Figure another 15min unless she has to track someone down, or get some deadbeat drone at some other desk to respond with other than a huh? Then at some point (which is often a Sunday afternoon at the kitchen table) she has to dictate notes about the visit, add another 15min to review, condense, write, dictate, blahblah. So all that takes 1.5hr if she is lucky, could be more like 2. Medicare pays something like $80. An auto mechanic charges more than that an hour, and has a lower salary, overhead, etc. The foreign docs can come here on a visa wherein they have to work in some underserved area (e.g., small towns). Most of them are pretty smart so they learn how the system works, and how to work the system. Mostly Indians and Pakis who have different social skills than your average merkin doc. And their wives and kids end up running a Subway or something, adds to income. They can make good dinero. You'll see a lot more of them. You figure out how to run a business like that, and attract smart, dedicated people into the field. BTW my wife put in 11years training for her job, 5yr in med school, that would be about $200k+ these days just for tuition (my son is in med school and I know what it costs, $50k/yr tuition), add another maybe $20-30k a year for everything else. She got paid some minimal amount in residency (3yr) and fellowship (3yr). Luckily she had me to carry the freight, so she did not have to take loans for living expenses for 5yr or scrimp for the 6yr, though we took loans for tuition. You figure out how someone going into medicine, someone good that YOU will want to take care of you, can survive with some payback on 11yr and $100ks invested. The average med student these days leaves school (and this is not even considering residency or fellowships which can be from 2-5yr) with about $200k in debt, and the interest clock keeps ticking while you are resident and fellow making, maybe, $40k/yr and working 100hr weeks. Run the numbers. 100 hr/wk x 50wk = 5000 hr. $40k/5k = $8/hr. You can make more than that at McDonalds, without any kind of education. Even if it is 60 hr/wk that is 3k hrs, $13/hr. Over time, even making good money later on, the average return, with opportunity cost of med school and residency, is not that wonderful for all that is put into it. I figure after (at minimum) maybe 10-15yr you could just about break even on what you could have made at a regular college-education job for that time. With the changes now, I'm not even sure my son could break even. I am not crying poor mouth, but these are the realities of medicine these days, not even talking about the cost of an MRI machine, advanced diagnostic tests, etc. --R On 7/7/12 7:17 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote: Rich Thomas said: The interesting thing about health care these days, at least in the oncology side, is that reimbursements for actual doc time and procedures is not enough to even begin to cover costs of providing that service. This really makes me ponder. It seems I see my doctor routinely for 10-20 minutes with an allowable (government health insurance) reimbursement of $60-100. Suppose that averages to $300-400 an hour. Considering all the associated costs (facility, equipment, consumables, insurance-especially malpractice, and at least 4 clerks for each doctor), I don't see how doctors make a living. Reimbursements are again
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
Sounds like a collective. They are gaining popularity in places like Portland and Seattle. You pay a fixed annual fee for general medical care, and they also provide some medications at no or reduced costs, too. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jul 8, 2012, at 6:59 AM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: A doctor (whole practice actually, 4 or 5 doctors) we know started this deal where a family pays them $1500 annually and all the doctors visits are covered. Almost like they are forming their own insurance company. Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: There's a doctor in town here who doesn't take medicare, doesn't take insurance. Cash practice. I think I might give him a try. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
No. When I was growing up, and I kid you not, easily half of the adults on my block were ELC employees. It was known that if you could get on at ELC or Allison (transmission and jet engine manufacturer) you were pretty well set for life. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jul 7, 2012, at 6:39 PM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: Did you buy any ELC shares? ;) Dan Penoff lwb...@yahoo.com wrote: I grew up in Indianapolis, home to Eli Lilly Co., one of the largest domestic pharmaceutical companies. To say that ELC was a cash cow is an understatement. Most of that money comes from drugs they have developed and hold ownership to. One of them my oldest son was on, and it cost over $1,000/month. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
There was a thing on NPR about that the other day... -Curt Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2012 06:59:38 -0400 From: Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] prescription costs Message-ID: dcd9f358-2795-4ecb-bd81-50d03a273...@email.android.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 A doctor (whole practice actually, 4 or 5 doctors) we know started this deal where a family pays them $1500 annually and all the doctors visits are covered. Almost like they are forming their own insurance company. Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: There's a doctor in town here who doesn't take medicare, doesn't take insurance. Cash practice. I think I might give him a try. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
Thank you for those 2 posts! depending on specialty some doctors pay more for malpractice than other expenses combined. they work in a system that not only allows zero mistakes and accidents but with a legal system that uses junk science to dupe a poorly educated population, many of which see the legal system as a lottery. and no nationalization is not the answer... common sense would help along with litigation reform of course... LarryT On 7/7/2012 7:17 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote: Rich Thomas said: The interesting thing about health care these days, at least in the oncology side, is that reimbursements for actual doc time and procedures is not enough to even begin to cover costs of providing that service. This really makes me ponder. It seems I see my doctor routinely for 10-20 minutes with an allowable (government health insurance) reimbursement of $60-100. Suppose that averages to $300-400 an hour. Considering all the associated costs (facility, equipment, consumables, insurance-especially malpractice, and at least 4 clerks for each doctor), I don't see how doctors make a living. Reimbursements are again scheduled to fall (30%, I think) next year unless Congress chickens out, yet again. I have to wonder what we're doing here. Maybe that's why so few native-born Americans are going into medicine these days; locally about 50% of the doctors appear foreign born, and thank God we have them. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs negy5aby
My cousin was an OB/GYN. She had 3 or 4 people working for her, was paying over $100k/yr in malpractice insurance, paying for her employees' health insurance, all that stuff, rent, etc. At some point she sat down and determined she was making LESS money every year than the person in her office she was paying the most, and that she was working many more hours per week than that person, and had huger responsibilities. F*** that she said and threw in the towel, hung out for awhile selling stuff on ebay (and making good money at it for a few hours a week, go figure), and then started working at a weight-loss clinic, probably 40 hr/wk, no headaches or much responsibility for the business end of things, goes home at the end of the day and week, and enjoys life while making MORE money than when she had her own practice. And all her patients got turfed off to someone else, who probably will reach the same conclusion if they have not already done so. --R On 7/8/12 12:25 PM, Larry T wrote: Thank you for those 2 posts! depending on specialty some doctors pay more for malpractice than other expenses combined. they work in a system that not only allows zero mistakes and accidents but with a legal system that uses junk science to dupe a poorly educated population, many of which see the legal system as a lottery. and no nationalization is not the answer... common sense would help along with litigation reform of course... LarryT On 7/7/2012 7:17 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote: Rich Thomas said: The interesting thing about health care these days, at least in the oncology side, is that reimbursements for actual doc time and procedures is not enough to even begin to cover costs of providing that service. This really makes me ponder. It seems I see my doctor routinely for 10-20 minutes with an allowable (government health insurance) reimbursement of $60-100. Suppose that averages to $300-400 an hour. Considering all the associated costs (facility, equipment, consumables, insurance-especially malpractice, and at least 4 clerks for each doctor), I don't see how doctors make a living. Reimbursements are again scheduled to fall (30%, I think) next year unless Congress chickens out, yet again. I have to wonder what we're doing here. Maybe that's why so few native-born Americans are going into medicine these days; locally about 50% of the doctors appear foreign born, and thank God we have them. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
Dan Penoff lwb...@yahoo.com writes: When I was growing up, and I kid you not, easily half of the adults on my block were ELC employees. It was known that if you could get on at ELC or Allison (transmission and jet engine manufacturer) you were pretty well set for life. Lilly does give a lot in the form of grant money to the university here. They seem to work pretty hard to keep a positive image at least here in the state. How they handle drugs for people who can't afford them, I don't know. -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
Eli Lilly is a huge benefactor to the community in general, but that is not the company, it's the Lilly family (Lilly Endowment). My brother went to school with one of the Lilly Endowment honchos - Clay Robbins. This guy wields more power in this town that you could believe, since the Endowment spends nearly $200 million a year in grants to the community at large. People often confuse the Endowment with the company - two totally different entities. Dan On Jul 8, 2012, at 2:21 PM, Allan Streib wrote: Dan Penoff lwb...@yahoo.com writes: When I was growing up, and I kid you not, easily half of the adults on my block were ELC employees. It was known that if you could get on at ELC or Allison (transmission and jet engine manufacturer) you were pretty well set for life. Lilly does give a lot in the form of grant money to the university here. They seem to work pretty hard to keep a positive image at least here in the state. How they handle drugs for people who can't afford them, I don't know. -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
Dan Penoff lwb...@yahoo.com writes: People often confuse the Endowment with the company - two totally different entities. Still works to their benefit though, eh? -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
Concierge care. I use that. Beats the heck out of all the crap you deal with at standard medico visit. Get all the time you need to explore all issues. MD is more relaxed too. Office staff reduced to the two receptionist, instead of a cadre of file clerks and insurance slaves. Easier for them to budget for the year and lower overhead that is reflected in a higher quality experience once you enter the door. clay On Jul 8, 2012, at 3:59 AM, Max Dillon wrote: A doctor (whole practice actually, 4 or 5 doctors) we know started this deal where a family pays them $1500 annually and all the doctors visits are covered. Almost like they are forming their own insurance company. Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: There's a doctor in town here who doesn't take medicare, doesn't take insurance. Cash practice. I think I might give him a try. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
I would like to see our school district go to a district-owned clinic, as another district in the area has done. One of the biggest complaints among the instructional staff is having to take a day off if they have a doctor's appointment, since it's nearly impossible to get an appointment at a time that school is out for the day. The clinic could run at later hours so people could get in and not have to take a day off. Not to mention, if we managed our general care, it would be a heck of a lot cheaper than having paying Humana to do it. We have 29,000 employees. Add to that the dependents and you can see the economies of scale working to our advantage Dan On Jul 8, 2012, at 9:18 PM, clay monroe wrote: Concierge care. I use that. Beats the heck out of all the crap you deal with at standard medico visit. Get all the time you need to explore all issues. MD is more relaxed too. Office staff reduced to the two receptionist, instead of a cadre of file clerks and insurance slaves. Easier for them to budget for the year and lower overhead that is reflected in a higher quality experience once you enter the door. clay On Jul 8, 2012, at 3:59 AM, Max Dillon wrote: A doctor (whole practice actually, 4 or 5 doctors) we know started this deal where a family pays them $1500 annually and all the doctors visits are covered. Almost like they are forming their own insurance company. Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: There's a doctor in town here who doesn't take medicare, doesn't take insurance. Cash practice. I think I might give him a try. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
And you could conscript the upper level kidlets to intern there to get practice in medical dental office magic. Good for school credit, but probably an insurance nightmare for the district. On Jul 8, 2012, at 6:24 PM, Dan Penoff wrote: I would like to see our school district go to a district-owned clinic, as another district in the area has done. One of the biggest complaints among the instructional staff is having to take a day off if they have a doctor's appointment, since it's nearly impossible to get an appointment at a time that school is out for the day. The clinic could run at later hours so people could get in and not have to take a day off. Not to mention, if we managed our general care, it would be a heck of a lot cheaper than having paying Humana to do it. We have 29,000 employees. Add to that the dependents and you can see the economies of scale working to our advantage Dan On Jul 8, 2012, at 9:18 PM, clay monroe wrote: Concierge care. I use that. Beats the heck out of all the crap you deal with at standard medico visit. Get all the time you need to explore all issues. MD is more relaxed too. Office staff reduced to the two receptionist, instead of a cadre of file clerks and insurance slaves. Easier for them to budget for the year and lower overhead that is reflected in a higher quality experience once you enter the door. clay On Jul 8, 2012, at 3:59 AM, Max Dillon wrote: A doctor (whole practice actually, 4 or 5 doctors) we know started this deal where a family pays them $1500 annually and all the doctors visits are covered. Almost like they are forming their own insurance company. Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote: There's a doctor in town here who doesn't take medicare, doesn't take insurance. Cash practice. I think I might give him a try. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
WILTON wrote: Yes, even group trips by chartered bus, weren't there? Don't they do that any more? One of my Senators, Debbie Stabenow, used to charter those buses to aid in the illegal importation of drugs. The prices were lower in Canada because the government set the prices, and generally they were below total cost to the manufacturers. A lot of countries do this, let those stupid USA consumers pay for the world's RD expenses. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
On Jul 6, 2012 3:15 PM, WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com wrote: 'Don't know 'bout prices at other pharmacies - don't even know total price at MY pharmacy other than HIGH - MY federally mandated fee (as I understand it) is a set fee (very small part of total) per prescription (fee keeps creeping upward since its inception 12 - 15 years ago). (Part of the U. S. retired military prescription drug program - Tri Care for Life) Wilton, We have fairly low copays (fee to your plan, $5 for the lowest tier) but several of our medicines have been under that at Sam's. The other advantage of Sam's is that it is much more like a small-town pharmacy, at least ours is - I'm only in one or twice a month and all the folks know me and my wife and all three kids on sight. :) Unfortunately the hours are also small-town-ish, they close at 7 here, 6 Saturday, and aren't open Sunday - though we can get temp transfers from Walmarts since they are on the same computer. Anyway we have been much happier there than at other pharmacies, for what that's worth. Best, Tim Is wondering if it is okay to work on the car the day after his anniversary, while kids are at grandparents... ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
Most drug companies spend more on advertizing than they do on RD. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
I'm sure that's true when you include the cost of all the attractive, well-dressed men and women who frequent my primary-care provider. They really stand out from actual patients who usually wear work clothes, jeans, shorts, t-shirts, etc. -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Peter Frederick Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 9:28 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] prescription costs Most drug companies spend more on advertizing than they do on RD. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
All those salespeople clear $200,000 a year in BONUSES as a general rule, with base pay in the upper 80's. I'm sure many make more than that. Most pharmas have huge profits from grossly overcharging for patented drugs, many of which they only had a small part developing (all the basic research is being done at the University level on the Goverment dollar). One of the reasons we have economic problems, eh? Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
I had a former neighbor who was a pharma salesperson. While it is an understatement, she was magically babelicious. She made BIG bucks doing nothing more than calling on doctors and wining/dining them on a regular basis. If she had any product knowledge I would have been surprised. That being said, she was a total nut job with daddy issues who subsequently divorced her husband (one of the nicest guys I have ever met) and pretty much abandoned her kids. She lives with a guy who is a personal trainer at the local YMCA and waits tables somewhere. So much for success. Dan On Jul 7, 2012, at 3:43 PM, Peter Frederick wrote: All those salespeople clear $200,000 a year in BONUSES as a general rule, with base pay in the upper 80's. I'm sure many make more than that. Most pharmas have huge profits from grossly overcharging for patented drugs, many of which they only had a small part developing (all the basic research is being done at the University level on the Goverment dollar). One of the reasons we have economic problems, eh? Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
If this were true, it would be reflected in the stock prices, and big pharmaceutical firms would be fantastic investments Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net wrote: All those salespeople clear $200,000 a year in BONUSES as a general rule, with base pay in the upper 80's. I'm sure many make more than that. Most pharmas have huge profits from grossly overcharging for patented drugs, many of which they only had a small part developing (all the basic research is being done at the University level on the Goverment dollar). -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
They are. Look at their profit statements and dividends. Price looks low due to the number of shares, not the profit of the company. Problem comes when they borrow immense amounts of money to buy each other, or when their drug goes off patent. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
It was a sad day when they changed all the rules on drug reps entertaining their customers. When my wife was a Fellow, one of them took 3 couples (us + 2 other Fellows/spouses) to a really nice (one of the nicest) restaurant in Houston. The waiter brought over the wine list, she handed it to me and says to order wine. I ask her what the parameters were, and she says, I have a lot of budget to spend by the end of the year, have fun. And so we did. A LOT of fun. While those days are passed, there is an occasional thank you that comes along. The interesting thing about health care these days, at least in the oncology side, is that reimbursements for actual doc time and procedures is not enough to even begin to cover costs of providing that service. The money is made on significant mark-up margins of drugs, esp. chemotherapy agents. That is the rule-based system they work under, gummint is a big driver of the system. It will be interesting to see how it all sorts out for the system to actually operate like something rational. I hold out no hope in that regard, and neither do most of the other docs (including deans and other big shots). --R On 7/7/12 3:43 PM, Peter Frederick wrote: All those salespeople clear $200,000 a year in BONUSES as a general rule, with base pay in the upper 80's. I'm sure many make more than that. Most pharmas have huge profits from grossly overcharging for patented drugs, many of which they only had a small part developing (all the basic research is being done at the University level on the Goverment dollar). One of the reasons we have economic problems, eh? Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
I grew up in Indianapolis, home to Eli Lilly Co., one of the largest domestic pharmaceutical companies. To say that ELC was a cash cow is an understatement. Most of that money comes from drugs they have developed and hold ownership to. One of them my oldest son was on, and it cost over $1,000/month. They had the stuff about we'll help you if you can't afford it, which was crap. Because he worked at the time, and when I say that I mean in the most menial fashion, as in food service, he was not eligible for their program. So while he barely brought in what the drug cost, he didn't qualify for their program. Thank goodness he had a caregiver who would collect samples and pass as many on to him as they could. Lilly also spends literally millions of dollars to prevent their patented drugs from going off label, since it means they can no longer charge whatever they want for them. That also means the litigation drags out the release of these drugs that are going off label, making it harder and harder for those who need them to get them in an affordable fashion. Yes, I understand that they should have the opportunity to recoup their RD costs - I have no problem with that - but the drug my son was on generated a significant portion of their profits for the years it was off label, which tells me they were milking it to generate profits at the expense of the public. I'm not going to get into politics here, suffice to say that while it's far from a perfect solution, I think the health care industry should be nationalized. Our costs go up every year for two reasons - litigation and profiteering on the part of caregivers like insurance and pharmaceutical companies. Dan stepping off his soapbox now On Jul 7, 2012, at 4:26 PM, Peter Frederick wrote: They are. Look at their profit statements and dividends. Price looks low due to the number of shares, not the profit of the company. Problem comes when they borrow immense amounts of money to buy each other, or when their drug goes off patent. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
When I was a surgical resident, drug company funded filet mignon and lobster dinners were the norm in Boston's and DC's top steak houses:) Sent from my iPhone On Jul 7, 2012, at 4:34 PM, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: It was a sad day when they changed all the rules on drug reps entertaining their customers. When my wife was a Fellow, one of them took 3 couples (us + 2 other Fellows/spouses) to a really nice (one of the nicest) restaurant in Houston. The waiter brought over the wine list, she handed it to me and says to order wine. I ask her what the parameters were, and she says, I have a lot of budget to spend by the end of the year, have fun. And so we did. A LOT of fun. While those days are passed, there is an occasional thank you that comes along. The interesting thing about health care these days, at least in the oncology side, is that reimbursements for actual doc time and procedures is not enough to even begin to cover costs of providing that service. The money is made on significant mark-up margins of drugs, esp. chemotherapy agents. That is the rule-based system they work under, gummint is a big driver of the system. It will be interesting to see how it all sorts out for the system to actually operate like something rational. I hold out no hope in that regard, and neither do most of the other docs (including deans and other big shots). --R On 7/7/12 3:43 PM, Peter Frederick wrote: All those salespeople clear $200,000 a year in BONUSES as a general rule, with base pay in the upper 80's. I'm sure many make more than that. Most pharmas have huge profits from grossly overcharging for patented drugs, many of which they only had a small part developing (all the basic research is being done at the University level on the Goverment dollar). One of the reasons we have economic problems, eh? Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
Invest now and get your share... Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net wrote: They are. Look at their profit statements and dividends. Price looks low due to the number of shares, not the profit of the company. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
Did you buy any ELC shares? ;) Dan Penoff lwb...@yahoo.com wrote: I grew up in Indianapolis, home to Eli Lilly Co., one of the largest domestic pharmaceutical companies. To say that ELC was a cash cow is an understatement. Most of that money comes from drugs they have developed and hold ownership to. One of them my oldest son was on, and it cost over $1,000/month. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
Rich Thomas said: The interesting thing about health care these days, at least in the oncology side, is that reimbursements for actual doc time and procedures is not enough to even begin to cover costs of providing that service. This really makes me ponder. It seems I see my doctor routinely for 10-20 minutes with an allowable (government health insurance) reimbursement of $60-100. Suppose that averages to $300-400 an hour. Considering all the associated costs (facility, equipment, consumables, insurance-especially malpractice, and at least 4 clerks for each doctor), I don't see how doctors make a living. Reimbursements are again scheduled to fall (30%, I think) next year unless Congress chickens out, yet again. I have to wonder what we're doing here. Maybe that's why so few native-born Americans are going into medicine these days; locally about 50% of the doctors appear foreign born, and thank God we have them. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
Dan said I think the health care industry should be nationalized. Our costs go up every year... Hey why stop there. Education is going up almost as fact (and for the same reason). Housing was like this until 2006. Petrol was doing the same until a month or so ago. By this logic, we should nationalize anything that seems out of control. Oh wait, the Russians tri3ed that. -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dan Penoff Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 4:40 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] prescription costs I grew up in Indianapolis, home to Eli Lilly Co., one of the largest domestic pharmaceutical companies. To say that ELC was a cash cow is an understatement. Most of that money comes from drugs they have developed and hold ownership to. One of them my oldest son was on, and it cost over $1,000/month. They had the stuff about we'll help you if you can't afford it, which was crap. Because he worked at the time, and when I say that I mean in the most menial fashion, as in food service, he was not eligible for their program. So while he barely brought in what the drug cost, he didn't qualify for their program. Thank goodness he had a caregiver who would collect samples and pass as many on to him as they could. Lilly also spends literally millions of dollars to prevent their patented drugs from going off label, since it means they can no longer charge whatever they want for them. That also means the litigation drags out the release of these drugs that are going off label, making it harder and harder for those who need them to get them in an affordable fashion. Yes, I understand that they should have the opportunity to recoup their RD costs - I have no problem with that - but the drug my son was on generated a significant portion of their profits for the years it was off label, which tells me they were milking it to generate profits at the expense of the public. I'm not going to get into politics here, suffice to say that while it's far from a perfect solution, I think the health care industry should be nationalized. Our costs go up every year for two reasons - litigation and profiteering on the part of caregivers like insurance and pharmaceutical companies. Dan stepping off his soapbox now On Jul 7, 2012, at 4:26 PM, Peter Frederick wrote: They are. Look at their profit statements and dividends. Price looks low due to the number of shares, not the profit of the company. Problem comes when they borrow immense amounts of money to buy each other, or when their drug goes off patent. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
Well here is what my wife says. She has a patient who comes in with some sort of follow-up for cancer. Patient understandably has a lot of questions, and the fam is there too for moral support and to ask questions, take notes, keep track of stuff because a cancer patient does not have a lot of mental energy to put into that sort of thing, often confused, so the appt ends up being 45min-1hr. Then after that she has to write up orders for this and that follow-up and procedures and what not. Figure another 15min unless she has to track someone down, or get some deadbeat drone at some other desk to respond with other than a huh? Then at some point (which is often a Sunday afternoon at the kitchen table) she has to dictate notes about the visit, add another 15min to review, condense, write, dictate, blahblah. So all that takes 1.5hr if she is lucky, could be more like 2. Medicare pays something like $80. An auto mechanic charges more than that an hour, and has a lower salary, overhead, etc. The foreign docs can come here on a visa wherein they have to work in some underserved area (e.g., small towns). Most of them are pretty smart so they learn how the system works, and how to work the system. Mostly Indians and Pakis who have different social skills than your average merkin doc. And their wives and kids end up running a Subway or something, adds to income. They can make good dinero. You'll see a lot more of them. You figure out how to run a business like that, and attract smart, dedicated people into the field. BTW my wife put in 11years training for her job, 5yr in med school, that would be about $200k+ these days just for tuition (my son is in med school and I know what it costs, $50k/yr tuition), add another maybe $20-30k a year for everything else. She got paid some minimal amount in residency (3yr) and fellowship (3yr). Luckily she had me to carry the freight, so she did not have to take loans for living expenses for 5yr or scrimp for the 6yr, though we took loans for tuition. You figure out how someone going into medicine, someone good that YOU will want to take care of you, can survive with some payback on 11yr and $100ks invested. The average med student these days leaves school (and this is not even considering residency or fellowships which can be from 2-5yr) with about $200k in debt, and the interest clock keeps ticking while you are resident and fellow making, maybe, $40k/yr and working 100hr weeks. Run the numbers. 100 hr/wk x 50wk = 5000 hr. $40k/5k = $8/hr. You can make more than that at McDonalds, without any kind of education. Even if it is 60 hr/wk that is 3k hrs, $13/hr. Over time, even making good money later on, the average return, with opportunity cost of med school and residency, is not that wonderful for all that is put into it. I figure after (at minimum) maybe 10-15yr you could just about break even on what you could have made at a regular college-education job for that time. With the changes now, I'm not even sure my son could break even. I am not crying poor mouth, but these are the realities of medicine these days, not even talking about the cost of an MRI machine, advanced diagnostic tests, etc. --R On 7/7/12 7:17 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote: Rich Thomas said: The interesting thing about health care these days, at least in the oncology side, is that reimbursements for actual doc time and procedures is not enough to even begin to cover costs of providing that service. This really makes me ponder. It seems I see my doctor routinely for 10-20 minutes with an allowable (government health insurance) reimbursement of $60-100. Suppose that averages to $300-400 an hour. Considering all the associated costs (facility, equipment, consumables, insurance-especially malpractice, and at least 4 clerks for each doctor), I don't see how doctors make a living. Reimbursements are again scheduled to fall (30%, I think) next year unless Congress chickens out, yet again. I have to wonder what we're doing here. Maybe that's why so few native-born Americans are going into medicine these days; locally about 50% of the doctors appear foreign born, and thank God we have them. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
Dan Penoff wrote: They had the stuff about we'll help you if you can't afford it, which was crap. Because he worked at the time, and when I say that I mean in the most menial fashion, as in food service, he was not eligible for their program. So while he barely brought in what the drug cost, he didn't qualify for their program. Thank goodness he had a caregiver who would collect samples and pass as many on to him as they could. I thought most of the free drug programs were based on low income, or 2.5x poverty level. OTOH, I'm sure they're less eager to give away $12k a year than $1k a year drugs. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net writes: Medicare pays something like $80. An auto mechanic charges more than that an hour, and has a lower salary, overhead, etc. Last time I visited the ER I got a bill for over $400 for the doc (who was in the room maybe 5 minutes), plus a separate bill from the hospital for the nurses/supplies. See where they make up the $80 medicare reimbursements? There's a doctor in town here who doesn't take medicare, doesn't take insurance. Cash practice. I think I might give him a try. Allan -- 1983 300D 1979 300SD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
Question: Wouldn't the population be better served if the government offered to carry the education cost for anyone who wanted to become a doctor? I note that the much argued obama care generates some 20,000,000 new patients, some 16,000 new IRS agents to collect the fee/tax , but not one dime to create new doctors.. which we are short of even before the 20m new patients.. Who is running this country, anyway? Wouldn't it make sense to ease the burden to become a doctor, for those who met medical standards of study? How many billions did we spend to bail out the banks? How about if we spent that money to own and produce the common drugs that are impossible to afford and in high demand, as public domain? Just a thought or two.. I respectfully pass them to greater minds for deliberation. Grant... On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 6:59 PM, Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote: Well here is what my wife says. She has a patient who comes in with some sort of follow-up for cancer. Patient understandably has a lot of questions, and the fam is there too for moral support and to ask questions, take notes, keep track of stuff because a cancer patient does not have a lot of mental energy to put into that sort of thing, often confused, so the appt ends up being 45min-1hr. Then after that she has to write up orders for this and that follow-up and procedures and what not. Figure another 15min unless she has to track someone down, or get some deadbeat drone at some other desk to respond with other than a huh? Then at some point (which is often a Sunday afternoon at the kitchen table) she has to dictate notes about the visit, add another 15min to review, condense, write, dictate, blahblah. So all that takes 1.5hr if she is lucky, could be more like 2. Medicare pays something like $80. An auto mechanic charges more than that an hour, and has a lower salary, overhead, etc. The foreign docs can come here on a visa wherein they have to work in some underserved area (e.g., small towns). Most of them are pretty smart so they learn how the system works, and how to work the system. Mostly Indians and Pakis who have different social skills than your average merkin doc. And their wives and kids end up running a Subway or something, adds to income. They can make good dinero. You'll see a lot more of them. You figure out how to run a business like that, and attract smart, dedicated people into the field. BTW my wife put in 11years training for her job, 5yr in med school, that would be about $200k+ these days just for tuition (my son is in med school and I know what it costs, $50k/yr tuition), add another maybe $20-30k a year for everything else. She got paid some minimal amount in residency (3yr) and fellowship (3yr). Luckily she had me to carry the freight, so she did not have to take loans for living expenses for 5yr or scrimp for the 6yr, though we took loans for tuition. You figure out how someone going into medicine, someone good that YOU will want to take care of you, can survive with some payback on 11yr and $100ks invested. The average med student these days leaves school (and this is not even considering residency or fellowships which can be from 2-5yr) with about $200k in debt, and the interest clock keeps ticking while you are resident and fellow making, maybe, $40k/yr and working 100hr weeks. Run the numbers. 100 hr/wk x 50wk = 5000 hr. $40k/5k = $8/hr. You can make more than that at McDonalds, without any kind of education. Even if it is 60 hr/wk that is 3k hrs, $13/hr. Over time, even making good money later on, the average return, with opportunity cost of med school and residency, is not that wonderful for all that is put into it. I figure after (at minimum) maybe 10-15yr you could just about break even on what you could have made at a regular college-education job for that time. With the changes now, I'm not even sure my son could break even. I am not crying poor mouth, but these are the realities of medicine these days, not even talking about the cost of an MRI machine, advanced diagnostic tests, etc. --R On 7/7/12 7:17 PM, Scott Ritchey wrote: Rich Thomas said: The interesting thing about health care these days, at least in the oncology side, is that reimbursements for actual doc time and procedures is not enough to even begin to cover costs of providing that service. This really makes me ponder. It seems I see my doctor routinely for 10-20 minutes with an allowable (government health insurance) reimbursement of $60-100. Suppose that averages to $300-400 an hour. Considering all the associated costs (facility, equipment, consumables, insurance-especially malpractice, and at least 4 clerks for each doctor), I don't see how doctors make a living. Reimbursements are again scheduled to fall (30%, I think) next year unless Congress chickens out, yet again. I have to wonder what we're doing here. Maybe
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
But, are all of the local pharmacies charging the same price? That sounds like price fixing does it not? There actually seems to be some competition happening here. Randy On 05/07/2012 12:20 PM, G Mann wrote: Totally amazes me, I can buy the same drugs, made by the same company, in some cases, even from the same batch number, across the border in Mexico [2.8hr drive] for 1/8th the price [or less]. We have a health care crisis alright... Big Pharm is breaking it off in our sphincter at every turn wonder how they pay for all those lobbyist? It's not a tax... it's a fee... we just have 16,000 new IRS agents to collect the fee @)#($*$^^@*!@(!!))) On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 9:20 AM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: On 05/07/2012 9:41 AM, WILTON wrote: 'Been trying to think of somewhere I need to go today to show off the glistening black and to feel the AC blowing ICE COLD. Probably go to SAM's after lunch, but I'll hafta drive the white 124, 'cause it has my electric mobility scooter in the trunk, but a good part it is that its AC blows ICE COLD, too. ;) Oh, just remembered: I can drive the blackun to drug store to pick up prescriptions - may need to stop by bank on the way to re-mortgage the house, though. For several years, I've been getting my prescriptions filled at nearby drug store, rather than put up with the hassle of getting them at pharmacy on base, where they close on weekends, close for training, close for holiday, close for commander's call and on and on for a long list of typical BS. Paying the small additional fee at nearby drug store has been worth not having to go through hassle of base crap. The fees keep going up, though - 'may hafta go back to base pharmacy. Wilton Have you ever checked around to see if the prices are consistent? Around here, the big chain pharmacies tend to charge an arm and a leg. However, in the past few years we seem to have developed a bunch of little independent shops that are much less expensive. The drugs cost a certain amount, but in most cases, the dispensing fees are the costs that hurt. Randy __**_ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
On Jul 6, 2012, at 2:00 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: There actually seems to be some competition happening here. In Canada? Just a few short years ago weren't seniors from the US crossing the border into Canada for cheaper meds? Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
'Don't know 'bout prices at other pharmacies - don't even know total price at MY pharmacy other than HIGH - MY federally mandated fee (as I understand it) is a set fee (very small part of total) per prescription (fee keeps creeping upward since its inception 12 - 15 years ago). (Part of the U. S. retired military prescription drug program - Tri Care for Life) Wilton - Original Message - From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] prescription costs But, are all of the local pharmacies charging the same price? That sounds like price fixing does it not? There actually seems to be some competition happening here. Randy On 05/07/2012 12:20 PM, G Mann wrote: Totally amazes me, I can buy the same drugs, made by the same company, in some cases, even from the same batch number, across the border in Mexico [2.8hr drive] for 1/8th the price [or less]. We have a health care crisis alright... Big Pharm is breaking it off in our sphincter at every turn wonder how they pay for all those lobbyist? It's not a tax... it's a fee... we just have 16,000 new IRS agents to collect the fee @)#($*$^^@*!@(!!))) On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 9:20 AM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: On 05/07/2012 9:41 AM, WILTON wrote: 'Been trying to think of somewhere I need to go today to show off the glistening black and to feel the AC blowing ICE COLD. Probably go to SAM's after lunch, but I'll hafta drive the white 124, 'cause it has my electric mobility scooter in the trunk, but a good part it is that its AC blows ICE COLD, too. ;) Oh, just remembered: I can drive the blackun to drug store to pick up prescriptions - may need to stop by bank on the way to re-mortgage the house, though. For several years, I've been getting my prescriptions filled at nearby drug store, rather than put up with the hassle of getting them at pharmacy on base, where they close on weekends, close for training, close for holiday, close for commander's call and on and on for a long list of typical BS. Paying the small additional fee at nearby drug store has been worth not having to go through hassle of base crap. The fees keep going up, though - 'may hafta go back to base pharmacy. Wilton Have you ever checked around to see if the prices are consistent? Around here, the big chain pharmacies tend to charge an arm and a leg. However, in the past few years we seem to have developed a bunch of little independent shops that are much less expensive. The drugs cost a certain amount, but in most cases, the dispensing fees are the costs that hurt. Randy __**_ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
Yes, even group trips by chartered bus, weren't there? Don't they do that any more? Wilton - Original Message - From: Rick Knoble rickkno...@hotmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 3:10 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] prescription costs On Jul 6, 2012, at 2:00 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: There actually seems to be some competition happening here. In Canada? Just a few short years ago weren't seniors from the US crossing the border into Canada for cheaper meds? Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
On 06/07/2012 2:10 PM, Rick Knoble wrote: On Jul 6, 2012, at 2:00 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: There actually seems to be some competition happening here. In Canada? Just a few short years ago weren't seniors from the US crossing the border into Canada for cheaper meds? Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ And there were internet pharmacies sending packages by mail to the USA but the lobby groups got them shut down. Made it illegal to fill a prescription here unless it was signed by a Dr who was in Manitoba and the Dr had to have seen the patient so the whole thing unravelled. Stupid as they did not provide the more restricted drugs - just the basic stuff. Drug companies did not like it and neither did the Pharmacist's governing body and the College of Physicians etc. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
I purchased Zegerid through ebay for half the price. They were manufactured in Espana. On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 3:27 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: On 06/07/2012 2:10 PM, Rick Knoble wrote: On Jul 6, 2012, at 2:00 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: There actually seems to be some competition happening here. In Canada? Just a few short years ago weren't seniors from the US crossing the border into Canada for cheaper meds? Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ And there were internet pharmacies sending packages by mail to the USA but the lobby groups got them shut down. Made it illegal to fill a prescription here unless it was signed by a Dr who was in Manitoba and the Dr had to have seen the patient so the whole thing unravelled. Stupid as they did not provide the more restricted drugs - just the basic stuff. Drug companies did not like it and neither did the Pharmacist's governing body and the College of Physicians etc. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
On 05/07/2012 9:41 AM, WILTON wrote: 'Been trying to think of somewhere I need to go today to show off the glistening black and to feel the AC blowing ICE COLD. Probably go to SAM's after lunch, but I'll hafta drive the white 124, 'cause it has my electric mobility scooter in the trunk, but a good part it is that its AC blows ICE COLD, too. ;) Oh, just remembered: I can drive the blackun to drug store to pick up prescriptions - may need to stop by bank on the way to re-mortgage the house, though. For several years, I've been getting my prescriptions filled at nearby drug store, rather than put up with the hassle of getting them at pharmacy on base, where they close on weekends, close for training, close for holiday, close for commander's call and on and on for a long list of typical BS. Paying the small additional fee at nearby drug store has been worth not having to go through hassle of base crap. The fees keep going up, though - 'may hafta go back to base pharmacy. Wilton Have you ever checked around to see if the prices are consistent? Around here, the big chain pharmacies tend to charge an arm and a leg. However, in the past few years we seem to have developed a bunch of little independent shops that are much less expensive. The drugs cost a certain amount, but in most cases, the dispensing fees are the costs that hurt. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
My cost (federally mandated fee part of it - Tri Care for Life for U. S. military retirees) would be consistent. Advantage of going to Air Force base pharmacy is that I've already paid well for it - it's just such a hassle to collect what's already paid. Wilton - Original Message - From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] prescription costs On 05/07/2012 9:41 AM, WILTON wrote: 'Been trying to think of somewhere I need to go today to show off the glistening black and to feel the AC blowing ICE COLD. Probably go to SAM's after lunch, but I'll hafta drive the white 124, 'cause it has my electric mobility scooter in the trunk, but a good part it is that its AC blows ICE COLD, too. ;) Oh, just remembered: I can drive the blackun to drug store to pick up prescriptions - may need to stop by bank on the way to re-mortgage the house, though. For several years, I've been getting my prescriptions filled at nearby drug store, rather than put up with the hassle of getting them at pharmacy on base, where they close on weekends, close for training, close for holiday, close for commander's call and on and on for a long list of typical BS. Paying the small additional fee at nearby drug store has been worth not having to go through hassle of base crap. The fees keep going up, though - 'may hafta go back to base pharmacy. Wilton Have you ever checked around to see if the prices are consistent? Around here, the big chain pharmacies tend to charge an arm and a leg. However, in the past few years we seem to have developed a bunch of little independent shops that are much less expensive. The drugs cost a certain amount, but in most cases, the dispensing fees are the costs that hurt. Randy ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
Totally amazes me, I can buy the same drugs, made by the same company, in some cases, even from the same batch number, across the border in Mexico [2.8hr drive] for 1/8th the price [or less]. We have a health care crisis alright... Big Pharm is breaking it off in our sphincter at every turn wonder how they pay for all those lobbyist? It's not a tax... it's a fee... we just have 16,000 new IRS agents to collect the fee @)#($*$^^@*!@(!!))) On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 9:20 AM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: On 05/07/2012 9:41 AM, WILTON wrote: 'Been trying to think of somewhere I need to go today to show off the glistening black and to feel the AC blowing ICE COLD. Probably go to SAM's after lunch, but I'll hafta drive the white 124, 'cause it has my electric mobility scooter in the trunk, but a good part it is that its AC blows ICE COLD, too. ;) Oh, just remembered: I can drive the blackun to drug store to pick up prescriptions - may need to stop by bank on the way to re-mortgage the house, though. For several years, I've been getting my prescriptions filled at nearby drug store, rather than put up with the hassle of getting them at pharmacy on base, where they close on weekends, close for training, close for holiday, close for commander's call and on and on for a long list of typical BS. Paying the small additional fee at nearby drug store has been worth not having to go through hassle of base crap. The fees keep going up, though - 'may hafta go back to base pharmacy. Wilton Have you ever checked around to see if the prices are consistent? Around here, the big chain pharmacies tend to charge an arm and a leg. However, in the past few years we seem to have developed a bunch of little independent shops that are much less expensive. The drugs cost a certain amount, but in most cases, the dispensing fees are the costs that hurt. Randy __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
Drugs are like software in the sense that most of the cost is fixed cost (RD, testing, equipment, etc.) vs actual unit production cost. So after the primary (US) market is saturated they can still sell to secondary markets at low cost and make a prophet. As a thought experiment, how much of that fixed cost is created by government regulation, monopoly, and contingent liability? -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of G Mann Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 1:21 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] prescription costs Totally amazes me, I can buy the same drugs, made by the same company, in some cases, even from the same batch number, across the border in Mexico [2.8hr drive] for 1/8th the price [or less]. We have a health care crisis alright... Big Pharm is breaking it off in our sphincter at every turn wonder how they pay for all those lobbyist? It's not a tax... it's a fee... we just have 16,000 new IRS agents to collect the fee @)#($*$^^@*!@(!!))) On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 9:20 AM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: On 05/07/2012 9:41 AM, WILTON wrote: 'Been trying to think of somewhere I need to go today to show off the glistening black and to feel the AC blowing ICE COLD. Probably go to SAM's after lunch, but I'll hafta drive the white 124, 'cause it has my electric mobility scooter in the trunk, but a good part it is that its AC blows ICE COLD, too. ;) Oh, just remembered: I can drive the blackun to drug store to pick up prescriptions - may need to stop by bank on the way to re-mortgage the house, though. For several years, I've been getting my prescriptions filled at nearby drug store, rather than put up with the hassle of getting them at pharmacy on base, where they close on weekends, close for training, close for holiday, close for commander's call and on and on for a long list of typical BS. Paying the small additional fee at nearby drug store has been worth not having to go through hassle of base crap. The fees keep going up, though - 'may hafta go back to base pharmacy. Wilton Have you ever checked around to see if the prices are consistent? Around here, the big chain pharmacies tend to charge an arm and a leg. However, in the past few years we seem to have developed a bunch of little independent shops that are much less expensive. The drugs cost a certain amount, but in most cases, the dispensing fees are the costs that hurt. Randy __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://m ail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] prescription costs
Scott wrote: As a thought experiment, how much of that fixed cost is created by government regulation, monopoly, and contingent liability? ...and... Grant wrote: We have a health care crisis alright... Big Pharm is breaking it off in our sphincter at every turn wonder how they pay for all those lobbyist? And that is the crux of the matter, calling this free market is a misnomer. Pay enuf for lobbyist and you get to be written in to national legislation. What is next? Yeah, everyone needs a car, so the new legislation will fine you for not having a car. This whole thing is s perverse it is quite disturbing that all people can think about is how they look forward to being duped in to insco. We are now in the age of the Insurance Industrial Complex, like the Military Industrial Complex, etc. This boat does not have life rafts anymore and everyone goes down - we have all been educated in their systems and have freely subjugated ourselves to all their systems so we too can get benefits, aka welfare recipients... for service, maybe... We are frakced!! mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
