Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed
JabbaHursty wrote: do the 124s rust up north? i ask this because outside of a few common spots, I am yet to see a 124 with rust. just looking at my 109 and 115 brings up bubbles or rust, my 123s have considerable rust, but my 2 124s show nearly nothing. The rust protection on 124/201s is the best that Mercedes ever provided (in my opinion). Yes they CAN rust - especially in a high salt use area, but it takes considerably longer. The first spot(s) to show rust is/are USUALLY the the sheet metal surrounding the jack sockets. All but one of my cars has had SOME rust around the jack sockets repaired. All of my cars were driven year round in the rust belt. Where MOST 124/201s rust is anywhere they have been repaired! Few shops properly treat the metal (inside or out) after it's repaired and every repair on my cars has show signs of rust within 5-7 years after the repair. Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 181Kmi,'87 190D 2.5 199Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 227Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 159Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 234kmi Diesel Technical Advisor MBCA, member GWSection http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/mbooth1.htm
Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed
On Tue, Jul 05, 2005 at 07:23:43AM -0600, Dave M. wrote: > Kevin, > > There isn't really any alignment needed on the tensioner seal. More > likely (?) you had the wrong one. There is an early tensioner and a > late/improved tensioner. The newer one requires a larger aluminum > O-ring seal. If you put a small O-ring on a newer/larger tensioner, it > would get all boogered up. The O-ring should fit neatly on the > tensioner seat. Something to consider, anyway. This is documented in > the FSM somewhere. My white and blue cars had different tensioners, > that's how I discovered this little tidbit... another 'gotcha' to add > to your list! This was the tensioner and ring off the #14 head, with nothing done to them, just installed after filling with oil since it sat forever. It is plainly visible on the aluminum washer that the tensioner did not seat centered on the washer, and the washer was damaged as a result. I doubt the line will be visible on a digital picture. The washer did fit neatly on the tensioner, but in fiddling with the tensioner to get it threaded, it lost alignment. K
Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed
do the 124s rust up north? i ask this because outside of a few common
spots, I am yet to see a 124 with rust. just looking at my 109 and 115
brings up bubbles or rust, my 123s have considerable rust, but my 2 124s
show nearly nothing.
At 01:08 PM 7/5/2005, you wrote:
andrew strasfogel wrote:
All this talk about those new-fangled 124 wagons being the best in the
universe makes me mad! I just love my 1983 300TD with 275 K miles. It
has enough pep to pass almost anyone on the highway, enough room to
carry anything reasonably sized, is as trustworthy as an old hound
dog, and has enough rust to keep me just the slightest bit on edge. The
engines don't break, either (though I've had to do two
transmission rebuilds).
Andrew, I owned 3 different 123 wagons ('80, 82 & '85) and was convinced
they were the ULTIMATE wagon (each was a modest improvement over the
previous model) UNTIL I drove a 124 wagon from Pgh to Washington DC and
back in late '87. I swapped in a minute and have NEVER regretted it (even
when enduring most of the EXPENSIVE repairs unique to the 124)!
The 123 is more rugged, will probably last longer (there is no evidence
that the OM60x engines fail any sooner as long as it's NOT an OM603 turbo
that's been overheated) though 123s WILL rust sooner. 123s will probably
ultimately cost less to maintain. BUT 123s DON'T DRIVE NEARLY AS WELL -
not even close. I've made dozens of 2-3kmi trips in both models and the
124 is a quantum improvement over the 123. It IS the ultimate wagon (I do
plan to audition a NEW "C" class wagon in the next few months).
Marshall
--
Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions)
"der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
'87 300TD 181Kmi,'87 190D 2.5 199Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 227Kmi, '85 190D 2.0
159Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 234kmi
Diesel Technical Advisor MBCA, member GWSection
http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/mbooth1.htm
___
For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For new parts see www.buymbparts.com
For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed
andrew strasfogel wrote:
All this talk about those new-fangled 124 wagons being the best in the
universe makes me mad! I just love my 1983 300TD with 275 K miles.
It has enough pep to pass almost anyone on the highway, enough room to
carry anything reasonably sized, is as trustworthy as an old hound
dog, and has enough rust to keep me just the slightest bit on edge.
The engines don't break, either (though I've had to do two
transmission rebuilds).
Andrew, I owned 3 different 123 wagons ('80, 82 & '85) and was convinced
they were the ULTIMATE wagon (each was a modest improvement over the
previous model) UNTIL I drove a 124 wagon from Pgh to Washington DC and
back in late '87. I swapped in a minute and have NEVER regretted it
(even when enduring most of the EXPENSIVE repairs unique to the 124)!
The 123 is more rugged, will probably last longer (there is no evidence
that the OM60x engines fail any sooner as long as it's NOT an OM603
turbo that's been overheated) though 123s WILL rust sooner. 123s will
probably ultimately cost less to maintain. BUT 123s DON'T DRIVE NEARLY
AS WELL - not even close. I've made dozens of 2-3kmi trips in both
models and the 124 is a quantum improvement over the 123. It IS the
ultimate wagon (I do plan to audition a NEW "C" class wagon in the next
few months).
Marshall
--
Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions)
"der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
'87 300TD 181Kmi,'87 190D 2.5 199Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 227Kmi, '85 190D 2.0
159Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 234kmi
Diesel Technical Advisor MBCA, member GWSection
http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/mbooth1.htm
Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed
All this talk about those new-fangled 124 wagons being the best in the universe makes me mad! I just love my 1983 300TD with 275 K miles. It has enough pep to pass almost anyone on the highway, enough room to carry anything reasonably sized, is as trustworthy as an old hound dog, and has enough rust to keep me just the slightest bit on edge. The engines don't break, either (though I've had to do two transmission rebuilds). On 7/5/05, Dave M. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Kevin, > > There isn't really any alignment needed on the tensioner seal. More > likely (?) you had the wrong one. There is an early tensioner and a > late/improved tensioner. The newer one requires a larger aluminum > O-ring seal. If you put a small O-ring on a newer/larger tensioner, it > would get all boogered up. The O-ring should fit neatly on the > tensioner seat. Something to consider, anyway. This is documented in > the FSM somewhere. My white and blue cars had different tensioners, > that's how I discovered this little tidbit... another 'gotcha' to add > to your list! > > :-) > > -Dave M. > > > -- > > Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 21:53:54 -0700 > > From: Kevin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Subject: Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed > > > > > > The car lights off and is more or less happy, but the pressure leak out > > the chain tensioner because some moron (who, me?) didn't have the alignment > > of the aluminum spacer washer between the tensioner and the head spot on > > perfect, and munched the washer. Oh well, I haven't talked to Rusty > > recently... > > > > K > > ___ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For new parts see www.buymbparts.com > For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net >
Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed
Kevin, There isn't really any alignment needed on the tensioner seal. More likely (?) you had the wrong one. There is an early tensioner and a late/improved tensioner. The newer one requires a larger aluminum O-ring seal. If you put a small O-ring on a newer/larger tensioner, it would get all boogered up. The O-ring should fit neatly on the tensioner seat. Something to consider, anyway. This is documented in the FSM somewhere. My white and blue cars had different tensioners, that's how I discovered this little tidbit... another 'gotcha' to add to your list! :-) -Dave M. > -- > Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 21:53:54 -0700 > From: Kevin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed > > > The car lights off and is more or less happy, but the pressure leak out > the chain tensioner because some moron (who, me?) didn't have the alignment > of the aluminum spacer washer between the tensioner and the head spot on > perfect, and munched the washer. Oh well, I haven't talked to Rusty > recently... > > K
Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed
Sounds like you're getting close, Kevin. When do I get to take it for a spin? joe On 7/4/05, Kevin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, Jul 04, 2005 at 10:12:32AM -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: > > so can the 14 heads be repaired at a machine shop, and if so, will the > > problem just come up again? > > Kaleb, > > Having *JUST* gone through replacing a cracked head on an 87 300D, I can > say without a doubt that I would not waste my time, effort, blood, sweat, > beer, money, and patience on the job if I was just replacing the head with > another #14, or having the #14 on the car repaired. > > That said, with all the infernal gotchas being seen first hand, the next > replacement will probably not take near as long. > > The car lights off and is more or less happy, but the pressure leak out > the chain tensioner because some moron (who, me?) didn't have the alignment > of the aluminum spacer washer between the tensioner and the head spot on > perfect, and munched the washer. Oh well, I haven't talked to Rusty > recently...
Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed
On Mon, Jul 04, 2005 at 10:12:32AM -0500, Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: > so can the 14 heads be repaired at a machine shop, and if so, will the > problem just come up again? Kaleb, Having *JUST* gone through replacing a cracked head on an 87 300D, I can say without a doubt that I would not waste my time, effort, blood, sweat, beer, money, and patience on the job if I was just replacing the head with another #14, or having the #14 on the car repaired. That said, with all the infernal gotchas being seen first hand, the next replacement will probably not take near as long. The car lights off and is more or less happy, but the pressure leak out the chain tensioner because some moron (who, me?) didn't have the alignment of the aluminum spacer washer between the tensioner and the head spot on perfect, and munched the washer. Oh well, I haven't talked to Rusty recently... K
Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed
>From what I understand, head repairs are never guaranteed by shops to start with, and you would need a really good shop to properly work on any diesel head. Mac [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: >> so can the 14 heads be repaired at a machine shop, and if so, will the >> problem just come up again? > > The history of repairing those heads is VERY poor. I know of a few that > have been repaired and the repairs have lasted more than 20kmi but MOST > of the attemps at repair that have been reported to me have failed much > sooner (some immediately). Almost every repair I know of was made and > then the car was immediately sold - passing the problem on to the nesxt > guy! You'd probably be a LOT better off with a clean good used or > rebuilt "14" head.
Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed
Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: so can the 14 heads be repaired at a machine shop, and if so, will the problem just come up again? The history of repairing those heads is VERY poor. I know of a few that have been repaired and the repairs have lasted more than 20kmi but MOST of the attemps at repair that have been reported to me have failed much sooner (some immediately). Almost every repair I know of was made and then the car was immediately sold - passing the problem on to the nesxt guy! You'd probably be a LOT better off with a clean good used or rebuilt "14" head. The head design was not strong enough until it was redesigned in the late '80s. Repairing one that has failed leaves you with a head that was marginally inadequate that's been repaired - not usually a model for success. Just making a repair that's as uniform and strong as the original (which was inadequate) is problematic. Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 181Kmi,'87 190D 2.5 199Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 227Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 159Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 234kmi Diesel Technical Advisor MBCA, member GWSection http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/mbooth1.htm
Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed
Bill Gallagher wrote: Marshall Booth wrote: The 124 E320 TE wagon was an even nicer car IF YOU ARE WILLING TO TOLERATE a gasoline engine. .. Marshall can you explain your position on the 320 ..I do not like the lower MPG, 23 or so, and the much higher fuel cost than a diesel . I prefer a diesel wagon than a gas, but if there is more of a benefit will consider a switch tell me more . The 124 wagon being the GREATEST wagon ever made is independent of the engine being gasoline or diesel. I much prefer diesel, BUT the E320 TE was the penultimate 124 series wagon chassis - it had all the refinements I'd have loved to have on my 300TD (and in Europe you could get it with a diesel engine). The gasoline engine's poorer fuel economy, increased maintenance requirements and shorter service life are partially compensated for with lower initial cost, simpler (but more frequent and expensive) maintenance, much easier fuel availability, and greater power/speed. For the individual that doesn't drive the car at least 15-20kmi, a diesel engine will seldom result in any significant savings as the car will likely deteriorate from age before the engine delivers anything like it's service limit. Few Mercedes made since the '70s seem likely to last much longer than 20 years, so these cars need to be driven enough for the engine to roll up 400-500kmi in 20 years or 20-25kmi per year. This is especially true of cars that are designed/engineered to be entirely recycled and/or biodegradable (as all Mercedes are). Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 181Kmi,'87 190D 2.5 199Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 227Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 159Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 234kmi Diesel Technical Advisor MBCA, member GWSection http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/mbooth1.htm
Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed
It *might* be possible to repair some cracks in the original 14 heads, Kaleb, but I doubt it would make a lot of sense to try. During the original production of the OM603 engines, which ran iirc thru m/y '95 there were no fewer than 5 revised castings introduced, the latest of which might have been even more recent. Any of these later production heads is more than likely to offer a much greater likelihood of reliable success than repairing a 14. There are currently 4 heads being offered for sale thru carparts.com that look to be likely replacement candidates. Three of these are listed at ~$700 which based on prior offerings is a very attractive price. Dunno anything about Carparts of Shelby (NC) which has posted these listings, though. PGA's usual price is $825. joe On 7/4/05, Kaleb C. Striplin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > so can the 14 heads be repaired at a machine shop, and if so, will the > problem just come up again?
Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed
so can the 14 heads be repaired at a machine shop, and if so, will the problem just come up again? Marshall Booth wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Shipmates, I've located an '87 300TD for sale, and the price is right, but I need to get smart on what the weak spots are. According to the owner, the car has some rust but it's been fixed. The car is originally from MA. What are the typical places to look for rust? If there's some cosmetic rust, does that also means there's going to be hidden rust? Can the rust be stopped if caught in time? How about A/C problems - is this model prone to requiring a new evaporator? How about engine head problems - I know that #14 heads are weaker, and 17 and up are better. Where do I look to see what # the head is? The car has 250k miles on it, and no maintainence records, so what else can I look at to determine the general state of repair? Thanks in advance, any and all advice is appreciated. Max The "14" (and lower) heads were sufficiently weak to crack if the engine were sufficiently overheated. Many cars with trap oxidizers did overheat (common when trap equipped cars were routinely city driven without long highway cruises to burn out the crud in the trap) and some of those did develop head cracks. A few of the engines without traps developed cracked heads as well, but many few than those with traps. The 603.960 and 603.961 engines were essentially identical EXCEPT for the dual pump used for steering and self leveling in the wagons. The number of head failures is about 20% (using MY numbers) and the rate of failures has dropped dramatically since the traps were replaced. So fewer than 1 in 5 will have heads with higher numbers (the revised heads with higher numbers were introduced in 1989)! Replacing the trap does NOT insure the head is not already cracked (whether symptoms were evident or not) or won't crack, but the rate has diminished significantly. Probably rust will first show up under the right front fender (below/around the air intake) at the jack sockets and the front spring supports. For Pittsburgh cars, the brake, self leveling and fuel lines can ALL rust thru after 17 years of winter salt (don't ask how I know this). The evaporators were fairly likely to fail (more than 10% BY MY COUNT) and air distribution vacuum actuators were likely to be fragile after 15+ years. Replacing the evaporator and the actuators is a MAJOR job - 12-15 hours for an experienced tech! Check the operation of the rear side door windows - the wires going to the rear doors from the "B" pillars frequently broke. In my opinion, the 124.193 300TD is the still finest diesel wagon ever made (although maybe not the greatest value as maintenance might eat you alive). The 124 E320 TE wagon was an even nicer car IF YOU ARE WILLING TO TOLERATE a gasoline engine. Marshall -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250 Okie Benz Auto parts-email for used parts
Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed
Marshall Booth wrote: The 124 E320 TE wagon was an even nicer car IF YOU ARE WILLING TO TOLERATE a gasoline engine. .. Marshall can you explain your position on the 320 ..I do not like the lower MPG, 23 or so, and the much higher fuel cost than a diesel . I prefer a diesel wagon than a gas, but if there is more of a benefit will consider a switch tell me more . Bill 1981 300 TD [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Shipmates, I've located an '87 300TD for sale, and the price is right, but I need to get smart on what the weak spots are. According to the owner, the car has some rust but it's been fixed. The car is originally from MA. What are the typical places to look for rust? If there's some cosmetic rust, does that also means there's going to be hidden rust? Can the rust be stopped if caught in time? How about A/C problems - is this model prone to requiring a new evaporator? How about engine head problems - I know that #14 heads are weaker, and 17 and up are better. Where do I look to see what # the head is? The car has 250k miles on it, and no maintainence records, so what else can I look at to determine the general state of repair? Thanks in advance, any and all advice is appreciated. Max The "14" (and lower) heads were sufficiently weak to crack if the engine were sufficiently overheated. Many cars with trap oxidizers did overheat (common when trap equipped cars were routinely city driven without long highway cruises to burn out the crud in the trap) and some of those did develop head cracks. A few of the engines without traps developed cracked heads as well, but many few than those with traps. The 603.960 and 603.961 engines were essentially identical EXCEPT for the dual pump used for steering and self leveling in the wagons. The number of head failures is about 20% (using MY numbers) and the rate of failures has dropped dramatically since the traps were replaced. So fewer than 1 in 5 will have heads with higher numbers (the revised heads with higher numbers were introduced in 1989)! Replacing the trap does NOT insure the head is not already cracked (whether symptoms were evident or not) or won't crack, but the rate has diminished significantly. Probably rust will first show up under the right front fender (below/around the air intake) at the jack sockets and the front spring supports. For Pittsburgh cars, the brake, self leveling and fuel lines can ALL rust thru after 17 years of winter salt (don't ask how I know this). The evaporators were fairly likely to fail (more than 10% BY MY COUNT) and air distribution vacuum actuators were likely to be fragile after 15+ years. Replacing the evaporator and the actuators is a MAJOR job - 12-15 hours for an experienced tech! Check the operation of the rear side door windows - the wires going to the rear doors from the "B" pillars frequently broke. In my opinion, the 124.193 300TD is the still finest diesel wagon ever made (although maybe not the greatest value as maintenance might eat you alive). The 124 E320 TE wagon was an even nicer car IF YOU ARE WILLING TO TOLERATE a gasoline engine. Marshall
Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed
The 1987 300D/TD buyer's guide is also posted as a plain text file at this link: http://www.w124performance.com/docs/mb/articles/124.1x3_buying_tips.txt :-) -dm == >If you've got rusted jack points, Jeff, I'd wager a tidy sum that a >little probing of the underbody panels with a screwdriver will reveal >a goodly number of places where the undercoating has lost its >sheetmetal backing. Pull the plastic panels in the front wheel wells >and you'll find more. On second thought, don't; you don't really want >to know. > >Spud did the latest 124 buying guide revision, but unless he or >someone else who's squirreled a copy away can send it along, accessing >that'll have to await the resurrection of the articles at mbz.org. > >joe > >On 7/3/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Shipmates, >> >> I've located an '87 300TD for sale, and the price is right, but I need to >> get smart on what the weak spots are. >> >> According to the owner, the car has some rust but it's been fixed. The car >> is originally from MA. What are the typical places to look for rust? If >> there's some cosmetic rust, does that also means there's going to be hidden >> rust? Can the rust be stopped if caught in time? >> >> How about A/C problems - is this model prone to requiring a new evaporator? >> >> How about engine head problems - I know that #14 heads are weaker, and 17 >> and up are better. Where do I look to see what # the head is? >> >> The car has 250k miles on it, and no maintainence records, so what else can >> I look at to determine the general state of repair? >> >> Thanks in advance, any and all advice is appreciated. >>
Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Shipmates, I've located an '87 300TD for sale, and the price is right, but I need to get smart on what the weak spots are. According to the owner, the car has some rust but it's been fixed. The car is originally from MA. What are the typical places to look for rust? If there's some cosmetic rust, does that also means there's going to be hidden rust? Can the rust be stopped if caught in time? How about A/C problems - is this model prone to requiring a new evaporator? How about engine head problems - I know that #14 heads are weaker, and 17 and up are better. Where do I look to see what # the head is? The car has 250k miles on it, and no maintainence records, so what else can I look at to determine the general state of repair? Thanks in advance, any and all advice is appreciated. Max The "14" (and lower) heads were sufficiently weak to crack if the engine were sufficiently overheated. Many cars with trap oxidizers did overheat (common when trap equipped cars were routinely city driven without long highway cruises to burn out the crud in the trap) and some of those did develop head cracks. A few of the engines without traps developed cracked heads as well, but many few than those with traps. The 603.960 and 603.961 engines were essentially identical EXCEPT for the dual pump used for steering and self leveling in the wagons. The number of head failures is about 20% (using MY numbers) and the rate of failures has dropped dramatically since the traps were replaced. So fewer than 1 in 5 will have heads with higher numbers (the revised heads with higher numbers were introduced in 1989)! Replacing the trap does NOT insure the head is not already cracked (whether symptoms were evident or not) or won't crack, but the rate has diminished significantly. Probably rust will first show up under the right front fender (below/around the air intake) at the jack sockets and the front spring supports. For Pittsburgh cars, the brake, self leveling and fuel lines can ALL rust thru after 17 years of winter salt (don't ask how I know this). The evaporators were fairly likely to fail (more than 10% BY MY COUNT) and air distribution vacuum actuators were likely to be fragile after 15+ years. Replacing the evaporator and the actuators is a MAJOR job - 12-15 hours for an experienced tech! Check the operation of the rear side door windows - the wires going to the rear doors from the "B" pillars frequently broke. In my opinion, the 124.193 300TD is the still finest diesel wagon ever made (although maybe not the greatest value as maintenance might eat you alive). The 124 E320 TE wagon was an even nicer car IF YOU ARE WILLING TO TOLERATE a gasoline engine. Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 181Kmi,'87 190D 2.5 199Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 227Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 159Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 234kmi Diesel Technical Advisor MBCA, member GWSection http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/mbooth1.htm
Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed
Mac, The engine in question was first utilized in the 86 W126 model and only the West Coast models had the dreaded Trap Oxidizer installed. For 1987 both the W126 and W124 had the TO installed. The TO caused the engine to overheat and do damage to the aluminum heads. Most TO's have been removed as MB had (has?) a campaign to replace the TO free of charge. Just my opinion, but I believe the 86 W126 w/o the TO may have less frequency of cracked heads. There have been some other upgrades as well over the years such as the vacuum pump and the surpentine belt system. John On 7/3/05, Steve MacSween <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > I think you'll have Marshall chime in soon to tell you that the head > > faults are NOT as common as you may have read elsewhere. My own #14 head > > has 278Kmi on it and performs flawlessly. Several others on this list > > have similar stories. > > > > The jack points seem to rust first on this car. That's about it. The 124 > > TD is about the best car they made in the 80's. > > Interesting. How does this compare or contrast with the engine used in the > 300sdl models? It isn't the same, but it's a variant? (If I understand > correctly.) > > I ask because I have not bought the latest Barrett buyer's guide, and after > reading the trashing he gave 116 SDs in it, I won't. Well, maybe when it > makes the remainder stores (the author's cut is removed when books go to > remainder). > > Mac > > > ___ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For new parts see www.buymbparts.com > For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net >
Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed
Doesn't Google cache these things? Maybe I will check. Rick Knoble 1985 300 CD >Spud did the latest 124 buying guide revision, but unless he or >someone else who's squirreled a copy away can send it along, accessing >that'll have to await the resurrection of the articles at mbz.org.
Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed
If you've got rusted jack points, Jeff, I'd wager a tidy sum that a little probing of the underbody panels with a screwdriver will reveal a goodly number of places where the undercoating has lost its sheetmetal backing. Pull the plastic panels in the front wheel wells and you'll find more. On second thought, don't; you don't really want to know. Spud did the latest 124 buying guide revision, but unless he or someone else who's squirreled a copy away can send it along, accessing that'll have to await the resurrection of the articles at mbz.org. joe On 7/3/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Shipmates, > > I've located an '87 300TD for sale, and the price is right, but I need to > get smart on what the weak spots are. > > According to the owner, the car has some rust but it's been fixed. The car > is originally from MA. What are the typical places to look for rust? If > there's some cosmetic rust, does that also means there's going to be hidden > rust? Can the rust be stopped if caught in time? > > How about A/C problems - is this model prone to requiring a new evaporator? > > How about engine head problems - I know that #14 heads are weaker, and 17 > and up are better. Where do I look to see what # the head is? > > The car has 250k miles on it, and no maintainence records, so what else can > I look at to determine the general state of repair? > > Thanks in advance, any and all advice is appreciated. > > Max
Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed
AFAIK it's the exact same engine except for having a tandem pump in the TD to run the rear suspension system. Jeff Zedic Toronto 87 300TD 83 300D
Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I think you'll have Marshall chime in soon to tell you that the head > faults are NOT as common as you may have read elsewhere. My own #14 head > has 278Kmi on it and performs flawlessly. Several others on this list > have similar stories. > > The jack points seem to rust first on this car. That's about it. The 124 > TD is about the best car they made in the 80's. Interesting. How does this compare or contrast with the engine used in the 300sdl models? It isn't the same, but it's a variant? (If I understand correctly.) I ask because I have not bought the latest Barrett buyer's guide, and after reading the trashing he gave 116 SDs in it, I won't. Well, maybe when it makes the remainder stores (the author's cut is removed when books go to remainder). Mac
Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed
...the BEST car ever--period. Cars don't typically rust badly out here on the Left coast, but I would definitely be wary of potential body cancer in the area behind the front fender liners. These areas can accumulate quite a bit of muck and road debris that traps moisture (and salt?). Other than the head and potential evaporator/vacuum pod replacements, these models just seem to fall prey to typical MB stuff (CC amps, ACC re-soldering, speedo-head failure, slow/in-op sunroof, etc.) If you like the price, go for it. On 7/3/05, Jeff Zedic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I think you'll have Marshall chime in soon to tell you that the head faults are NOT as common as you may have read elsewhere. My own #14 head has 278Kmi on it and performs flawlessly. Several others on this list have similar stories. The jack points seem to rust first on this car. That's about it. The 124 TD is about the best car they made in the 80's. Casey Biodiesel: '87 300TD intercooler (205k) '84 300D (201k) Gasser: '89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (184k) Olympia, WA
Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed
I think you'll have Marshall chime in soon to tell you that the head faults are NOT as common as you may have read elsewhere. My own #14 head has 278Kmi on it and performs flawlessly. Several others on this list have similar stories. The jack points seem to rust first on this car. That's about it. The 124 TD is about the best car they made in the 80's. Jeff Zedic 87 300TD 83 300D Needs engine
Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed
The head number is towards the front of the engine on the drivers side. John On 7/3/05, Steve MacSween <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > How about engine head problems - I know that #14 heads are weaker, and 17 > and up are better. Where do I look to see what # the head is? > > What was the source of that info? I am interested in those engines myself, > for their power and smoothness, but I have trouble finding anything except > very negative comments > > thanks > > Mac > Aylmer, Quebec > '60 Mercedes 220s / '85 Mercedes 300sd > '75 Volvo 164e / '88 Volvo 245 > > > > ___ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For new parts see www.buymbparts.com > For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net >
Re: [MBZ] 124 wagon buyers guide needed
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How about engine head problems - I know that #14 heads are weaker, and 17 and up are better. Where do I look to see what # the head is? What was the source of that info? I am interested in those engines myself, for their power and smoothness, but I have trouble finding anything except very negative comments thanks Mac Aylmer, Quebec '60 Mercedes 220s / '85 Mercedes 300sd '75 Volvo 164e / '88 Volvo 245
