Re: [MBZ] FWIW

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Wonder why Saudi Arabia isn't on the list.  Didn't they support the 9/11
highjackers?



On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 10:29 PM, Mountain Man via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Fred wrote:
> > I could just cry.
>
> If the house is on fire, we should do something...
> Probably not a mere whim that these countries were selected.
> The prohibition is 90-days and then resume those countries, probably.
> tin-man
>
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Re: [MBZ] FWIW

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Fred wrote:
> I could just cry.

If the house is on fire, we should do something...
Probably not a mere whim that these countries were selected.
The prohibition is 90-days and then resume those countries, probably.
tin-man

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Re: [MBZ] FWIW

[Curley McLain via Mercedes]

I thought political posts were verboten.

I'll sell you a genuine MB shop towel to cry on.  It is very nice!   $10

FWIW: the US of A has been most generous, taking in people from all over 
the globe, who want to become Americans, and who believe in the American 
Dream.   The last 2 phrases are critical.


We have NO obligation to take in those who want to take over the country.

There is NO other country in the history of mankind that has been so 
generous as the US of A!


Cry on.


Fred Moir via Mercedes 
January 28, 2017 at 8:08 PM


I could just cry.


Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.
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Re: [MBZ] FWIW

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

No.  No because this sort of thing just spirals down into a nasty free for all. 
 It has no business here.  Period.

If people want to feed the fire, they'll be on moderation.  That includes 
snarky or "follow up" comments.

You have been warned.

On Oct 5, 2014, at 8:48 PM, Mountain Man  wrote:

> Dan wrote:
>> Dan List Mom with her finger on the Moderation button
> 
> Pooferator
> Pooserator
> Whatever - let us be childish for a while and back off, old man.
> ma


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Re: [MBZ] FWIW

[Gary Hurst via Mercedes]

but also for my sexy too, no?

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 8:50 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Thanks Dan. I hate to be the MB content NAZI but I joined this 12 years ago
> for MB content.  Period.
> On Oct 5, 2014 8:31 PM, "Dan Penoff via Mercedes" 
> wrote:
>
> > OK, everyone, Im going to pull the plug on this right away.  There was
> > nothing of value in that post that was even remotely relevant to subject
> > matter for this list.
> >
> > This thread is closed. Period.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> >
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >
> > All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those
> > individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
> > has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
> >
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>
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>
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> individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
> has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
>



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Re: [MBZ] FWIW

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Thanks Dan. I hate to be the MB content NAZI but I joined this 12 years ago
for MB content.  Period.
On Oct 5, 2014 8:31 PM, "Dan Penoff via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> OK, everyone, Im going to pull the plug on this right away.  There was
> nothing of value in that post that was even remotely relevant to subject
> matter for this list.
>
> This thread is closed. Period.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
>
> ___
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>
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>
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>
> All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those
> individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
> has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
>
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Re: [MBZ] FWIW

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Dan wrote:
> Dan List Mom with her finger on the Moderation button

Pooferator
Pooserator
Whatever - let us be childish for a while and back off, old man.
ma

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Re: [MBZ] FWIW

[Gary Hurst via Mercedes]

doesn't seem closed from here

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 8:34 PM, Craig via Mercedes 
wrote:

> On Sun, 5 Oct 2014 19:07:20 -0500 Peter Frederick via Mercedes
>  wrote:
>
> > This is trash promulgated by a non-scientist with a right wing agenda.
> >
> > You should know better than to parrot viral garbage racing around the
> > internet before you do due diligence.
>
> Actually your vitriolic rant is what is garbage. I am a scientist and am
> on an email list of many leading scientists who discuss the
> mis-information behind the climate hysteria, not the least of which is
> that the climate models are increasingly divergent from what is actually
> happening.
>
> From a posting on that list,
> --
>
> Incidentally, the handle of the hockey stick was produced by Mann using
> tree rings, which in itself is wrong as they represent precipitation not
> temperature. When the tree ring trend they produced went down in the 20th
> century they tacked on the "modern" record produced by Jones (hide the
> decline). Jones record became the blade of the hockey stick and shows the
> up turn on this graph.
>
> In his original work Jones claimed the temperature increased 0.6°C in
> approximately 120 years and that this was unnatural because it exceeded
> any natural temperature record increase. The ice core record shows that
> is false. More troubling, the Jones data was 0.6°C ±0.2°C or a ±33%
> percent error range. When Warwick Hughes asked for Jones' data he
> replied, on 21, February 2005. "We have 25 or so years invested in the
> work. Why should I make the data available to you, when your aim is to
> try and find something wrong with it." Then Jones reported, what I think
> we will eventually hear from Mann, that he lost the data.
>
> http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/feb/15/phil-jones-lost-weather-data
> Notice he says it is not acceptable, but he was never held accountable.
>
> Yes, the Mann or more correctly the Phil Jones and IPCC modern record up
> turn in the 20th century is insignificant in the 10,000 Holocene record.
> The reason for Mann's hockey stick was to support the argument that
> todays temperatures are the highest ever. We pointed out that the
> Medieval Warm Period, around 1000 on the graph was warmer, so Mann set
> out to get rid of it. It wasn't just Mann, but the entire gang at the
> Climatic Research Unit (CRU), most of who were on the IPCC. One was
> Jonathan Overpeck, who in an email to David Deming said."We have to get
> rid of the Medieval Warm Period." Deming gave this as sworn testimony to
> the Congress. http://www.epw.senate.gov/hearing_statements.cfm?id=266543
>
> When we argued that the world was warmer for most of the Holocene as the
> Greenland graph shows, the argument made by NASA (Hansen), NOAA and
> especially the CRU people was that it was only warmer in summer
> temperatures. What rubbish.
>
> The evidence isn't just the ice core record. Here is a photograph of a
> White Spruce some 100 km north of the current tree line. It was taken by
> Professor Ritchie and first appeared in Lamb's Volume 2. I obtained
> permission from Professor Ritchie to use it in articles I was writing.
> Here the photo is attached to a similar Holocene graph to the one
> produced by NOAA that I used in a powerpoint presentation..
>
> Notice the temperature was at least 2°C warmer than at present, yet the
> IPCC say this would be a catastrophic warming. The question is how did
> the polar bears survive the Holocene, because there was certainly
> considerably less ice.
>
> So many lies, so much terrible science. So little accountability
>
> -
>
> The billions of dollars of funding that has been poured into supporting
> the hysteria has corrupted many scientists and degraded science.
>
>
> Craig
> Ph.D. physics
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
> All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those
> individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
> has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
>



-- 


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Re: [MBZ] FWIW

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

Peter wrote:
> This is trash promulgated by a non-scientist with a right wing agenda.
>

That is probably true.
However, there are things that can be accomplished man-to-man against
any of this bs - and that is the story that needs to be told, not some
political non-science or science argument.  Simply, we use too much
junk and we can live quite will without so much junk.  Forget about
the usual semantics that gets nobody anywhere except for polarizing
politics - let's get it together as people, look at each other as
persons, treat each other with kindness, share with each other instead
of pillaging anywhere and everywhere, do more with less.  The usual
NewEngland saw comes in handy - use it up, wear it out, make it do, or
do without.  We should be at the do without stage.
ma

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Re: [MBZ] FWIW

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Because the time stamp on this was within a few minutes of the post I'll let 
this slide.  I don't want to see any more replies to this thread. 

Period.

Dan List Mom with her finger on the Moderation button


On Oct 5, 2014, at 8:34 PM, Craig via Mercedes  wrote:

> On Sun, 5 Oct 2014 19:07:20 -0500 Peter Frederick via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
>> This is trash promulgated by a non-scientist with a right wing agenda.
>> 
>> You should know better than to parrot viral garbage racing around the  
>> internet before you do due diligence.
> 
> Actually your vitriolic rant is what is garbage. I am a scientist and am
> on an email list of many leading scientists who discuss the
> mis-information behind the climate hysteria, not the least of which is
> that the climate models are increasingly divergent from what is actually
> happening.
> 
> From a posting on that list,
> --
> 
> Incidentally, the handle of the hockey stick was produced by Mann using
> tree rings, which in itself is wrong as they represent precipitation not
> temperature. When the tree ring trend they produced went down in the 20th
> century they tacked on the "modern" record produced by Jones (hide the
> decline). Jones record became the blade of the hockey stick and shows the
> up turn on this graph. 
> 
> In his original work Jones claimed the temperature increased 0.6°C in
> approximately 120 years and that this was unnatural because it exceeded
> any natural temperature record increase. The ice core record shows that
> is false. More troubling, the Jones data was 0.6°C ±0.2°C or a ±33%
> percent error range. When Warwick Hughes asked for Jones' data he
> replied, on 21, February 2005. "We have 25 or so years invested in the
> work. Why should I make the data available to you, when your aim is to
> try and find something wrong with it." Then Jones reported, what I think
> we will eventually hear from Mann, that he lost the data.
> http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/feb/15/phil-jones-lost-weather-data
> Notice he says it is not acceptable, but he was never held accountable. 
> 
> Yes, the Mann or more correctly the Phil Jones and IPCC modern record up
> turn in the 20th century is insignificant in the 10,000 Holocene record.
> The reason for Mann's hockey stick was to support the argument that
> todays temperatures are the highest ever. We pointed out that the
> Medieval Warm Period, around 1000 on the graph was warmer, so Mann set
> out to get rid of it. It wasn't just Mann, but the entire gang at the
> Climatic Research Unit (CRU), most of who were on the IPCC. One was
> Jonathan Overpeck, who in an email to David Deming said."We have to get
> rid of the Medieval Warm Period." Deming gave this as sworn testimony to
> the Congress. http://www.epw.senate.gov/hearing_statements.cfm?id=266543 
> 
> When we argued that the world was warmer for most of the Holocene as the
> Greenland graph shows, the argument made by NASA (Hansen), NOAA and
> especially the CRU people was that it was only warmer in summer
> temperatures. What rubbish.
> 
> The evidence isn't just the ice core record. Here is a photograph of a
> White Spruce some 100 km north of the current tree line. It was taken by
> Professor Ritchie and first appeared in Lamb's Volume 2. I obtained
> permission from Professor Ritchie to use it in articles I was writing.
> Here the photo is attached to a similar Holocene graph to the one
> produced by NOAA that I used in a powerpoint presentation.. 
> 
> Notice the temperature was at least 2°C warmer than at present, yet the
> IPCC say this would be a catastrophic warming. The question is how did
> the polar bears survive the Holocene, because there was certainly
> considerably less ice. 
> 
> So many lies, so much terrible science. So little accountability
> 
> -
> 
> The billions of dollars of funding that has been poured into supporting
> the hysteria has corrupted many scientists and degraded science.
> 
> 
> Craig
> Ph.D. physics
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those 
> individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner has 
> no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.


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Re: [MBZ] FWIW

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Sun, 5 Oct 2014 19:07:20 -0500 Peter Frederick via Mercedes
 wrote:

> This is trash promulgated by a non-scientist with a right wing agenda.
> 
> You should know better than to parrot viral garbage racing around the  
> internet before you do due diligence.

Actually your vitriolic rant is what is garbage. I am a scientist and am
on an email list of many leading scientists who discuss the
mis-information behind the climate hysteria, not the least of which is
that the climate models are increasingly divergent from what is actually
happening.

From a posting on that list,
--

Incidentally, the handle of the hockey stick was produced by Mann using
tree rings, which in itself is wrong as they represent precipitation not
temperature. When the tree ring trend they produced went down in the 20th
century they tacked on the "modern" record produced by Jones (hide the
decline). Jones record became the blade of the hockey stick and shows the
up turn on this graph. 

In his original work Jones claimed the temperature increased 0.6°C in
approximately 120 years and that this was unnatural because it exceeded
any natural temperature record increase. The ice core record shows that
is false. More troubling, the Jones data was 0.6°C ±0.2°C or a ±33%
percent error range. When Warwick Hughes asked for Jones' data he
replied, on 21, February 2005. "We have 25 or so years invested in the
work. Why should I make the data available to you, when your aim is to
try and find something wrong with it." Then Jones reported, what I think
we will eventually hear from Mann, that he lost the data.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2010/feb/15/phil-jones-lost-weather-data
Notice he says it is not acceptable, but he was never held accountable. 

Yes, the Mann or more correctly the Phil Jones and IPCC modern record up
turn in the 20th century is insignificant in the 10,000 Holocene record.
The reason for Mann's hockey stick was to support the argument that
todays temperatures are the highest ever. We pointed out that the
Medieval Warm Period, around 1000 on the graph was warmer, so Mann set
out to get rid of it. It wasn't just Mann, but the entire gang at the
Climatic Research Unit (CRU), most of who were on the IPCC. One was
Jonathan Overpeck, who in an email to David Deming said."We have to get
rid of the Medieval Warm Period." Deming gave this as sworn testimony to
the Congress. http://www.epw.senate.gov/hearing_statements.cfm?id=266543 

When we argued that the world was warmer for most of the Holocene as the
Greenland graph shows, the argument made by NASA (Hansen), NOAA and
especially the CRU people was that it was only warmer in summer
temperatures. What rubbish.

The evidence isn't just the ice core record. Here is a photograph of a
White Spruce some 100 km north of the current tree line. It was taken by
Professor Ritchie and first appeared in Lamb's Volume 2. I obtained
permission from Professor Ritchie to use it in articles I was writing.
Here the photo is attached to a similar Holocene graph to the one
produced by NOAA that I used in a powerpoint presentation.. 

Notice the temperature was at least 2°C warmer than at present, yet the
IPCC say this would be a catastrophic warming. The question is how did
the polar bears survive the Holocene, because there was certainly
considerably less ice. 

So many lies, so much terrible science. So little accountability

-

The billions of dollars of funding that has been poured into supporting
the hysteria has corrupted many scientists and degraded science.


Craig
Ph.D. physics

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Re: [MBZ] FWIW

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

OK, everyone, Im going to pull the plug on this right away.  There was nothing 
of value in that post that was even remotely relevant to subject matter for 
this list.

This thread is closed. Period.

Dan




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Re: [MBZ] FWIW

[Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes]

This absolutely doesn't belong on this list period.  End of discussion.

On Sunday, October 5, 2014, archer75--- via Mercedes 
wrote:

>
>
> ..
> Now, in what might be the largest scientific fraud ever uncovered, NASA
> and the NOAA have been caught red-handed altering historical temperature
> data to produce a "climate change narrative" that defies reality. This
> finding, originally documented on the Real Science website, is detailed
> here.
>
> We now know that historical temperature data for the continental United
> States were deliberately altered by NASA and NOAA scientists in a
> politically-motivated attempt to rewrite history and claim global warming
> is causing U.S. temperatures to trend upward. The data actually show that
> we are in a cooling trend, not a warming trend (see charts below).
>
> This story is starting to break worldwide right now across the media, with
> The Telegraph now reporting (1), "NOAA's US Historical Climatology Network
> (USHCN) has been 'adjusting' its record by replacing real temperatures with
> data 'fabricated' by computer models."
>
> Because the actual historical temperature record doesn't fit the frenzied,
> doomsday narrative of global warming being fronted today on the political
> stage, the data were simply altered using "computer models" and then
> published as fact.
>
> Here's the proof of the climate change fraud
> Here's the chart of U.S. temperatures published by NASA in 1999. It shows
> the highest temperatures actually occurred in the 1930's, followed by a
> cooling trend ramping downward to the year 2000:
>
>
>
> The authenticity of this chart is not in question. It is published by
> James Hansen on NASA's website. (2) On that page, Hansen even wrote,
> "Empirical evidence does not lend much support to the notion that climate
> is headed precipitately toward more extreme heat and drought."
>
> After the Obama administration took office, however, and started pushing
> the global warming narrative for political purposes, NASA was directed to
> alter its historical data in order to reverse the cooling trend and show a
> warming trend instead. This was accomplished using climate-modeling
> computers that simply fabricated the data the researchers wished to see
> instead of what was actually happening in the real world.
>
> Using the exact same data found in the chart shown above (with a few years
> of additional data after 2000), NASA managed to misleadingly distort the
> chart to depict the appearance of global warming:
>
>
>
> The authenticity of this chart is also not in question. It can be found
> right now on NASA's servers. (4)
>
> This new, altered chart shows that historical data -- especially the
> severe heat and droughts experienced in the 1930's -- are now
> systematically suppressed to make them appear cooler than they really were.
> At the same time, temperature data from the 1970's to 2010 are strongly
> exaggerated to make them appear warmer than they really were.
>
> This is a clear case of scientific fraud being carried out on a grand
> scale in order to deceive the entire world about global warming.
>
> EPA data also confirm the global warming hoax
> What's even more interesting is that even the EPA's "Heat Wave Index" data
> further support the notion that the U.S. was far hotter in the 1930's than
> it is today.
>
> The following chart, published on the EPA.gov website (4), clearly shows
> modern-day heat waves are far smaller and less severe than those of the
> 1930's. In fact, the seemingly "extreme" heat waves of the last few years
> were no worse than those of the early 1900's or 1950's.
>
>
>
> Short-sighted agricultural practices cause more global warming than CO2
> Seeing these charts, you might wonder how the extremely high temperatures
> of the 1930's came about. Were we releasing too much CO2 by burning fossil
> fuels?
>
> Nope. That entire episode of massive warming and drought was caused by
> conventional agricultural practices that clear-cut forests, poisoned the
> soils with chemicals and plowed the top soil away. Lacking trees to retain
> moisture, areas that were once thriving plains, grasslands and forests
> turned to desert. Suddenly, the cooling effects of moisture transpiration
> from healthy plant ecosystems was lost, causing extreme temperatures and
> deadly drought.
>
> Shortsighted agricultural practices, in other words, really did cause
> "warming," while a restoration of a more natural ecosystem reversed the
> trend and cooled the region.
>
> Reforestation is the answer
> This brings us to the simple, obvious solution to all this. If you want to
> cool the planet, focus on reforestation efforts. If you want to retain
> moisture and keep your soils alive, you need diverse plant-based
> ecosystems, not clear-cut fields running monoculture operations.
>
> Forests act like sponges that soak up rainwater, and then they turn around
> and slowly release that water back into the 

Re: [MBZ] FWIW

[Gary Hurst via Mercedes]

in the age of the neoliberal, everything is subsumed to political agenda.
 there is no concept of independent "truth" or "science".  just
limbaughesque comics spouting!

is this news to you, peter?

On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 8:07 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> This is trash promulgated by a non-scientist with a right wing agenda.
>
> You should know better than to parrot viral garbage racing around the
> internet before you do due diligence.
>
> Quite a bit of data is missing, has obvious errors, or cannot be explained
> by known weather phenomena, and the data from the US is vastly better than
> most of the rest of the planet.  In order to model and interpret, it can be
> necessary to correct known errors (a thermometer that read high or low all
> the time, for instance,and was known to by comparison) and to correct for
> errors when someone reported a temperature greatly different than
> surrounding ones with no explaination, etc.  Data can be full of errors,
> after all.
>
> All the data from before the advent of weather satellites is from written
> records, often by amateurs or farmers who may or may not (probably mostly
> not) have had certified thermometers known to read accurately, and there
> has never been a "real" climate data system designed to collect the
> pertinent data, and even if there were one now, it certainly did not exist
> prior to the 1970s.
>
> The last major heat wave we had was quite similar here to the 1930s -- my
> mother lived through it.  Just a couple degrees and a couple days short of
> the record set then.
>
> Climate scientists are well aware of the need to interpolate missing data,
> corrections necessary due to what are very obviously reporting errors, and
> so forth, and that information is included in their research papers if you
> bother to read them and understand them.
>
> Some layman nut writing under an assumed name shouldn't get the time of
> day, let alone credibility.
>
> I strongly suggest you learn some climate science and scientific
> methodology before you criticize someone's work.
>
> Reminds me of the climate "scientist" who was blowing some years back that
> in HIS part of climate research (the upper reaches of the stratosphere) the
> temperatures were not changing and therefore there was no "climate
> change".  Only surface temps were changing, so he assumed (and bloviated)
> that the CLIMATE couldn't be changing because above 100,000 ft altitude he
> wasn't seeing anything.  Fine if you live on the edges of space, I suppose,
> but all the humans I know of live below 12,000 ft altitude and on the
> physical surface of the planet, which he agreed WAS heating up.
>
> This sort of nonsense gives science a bad name, which is, after all, the
> entire and complete point of all the nonsense you referred to.  Once we can
> discredit science we can get right back to Divine Right and get to
> persecuting heretics while stealing everything.
>
> Peter
>
>
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>
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>
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-- 


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Re: [MBZ] FWIW

[Peter Frederick via Mercedes]

This is trash promulgated by a non-scientist with a right wing agenda.

You should know better than to parrot viral garbage racing around the  
internet before you do due diligence.


Quite a bit of data is missing, has obvious errors, or cannot be  
explained by known weather phenomena, and the data from the US is  
vastly better than most of the rest of the planet.  In order to model  
and interpret, it can be necessary to correct known errors (a  
thermometer that read high or low all the time, for instance,and was  
known to by comparison) and to correct for errors when someone  
reported a temperature greatly different than surrounding ones with no  
explaination, etc.  Data can be full of errors, after all.


All the data from before the advent of weather satellites is from  
written records, often by amateurs or farmers who may or may not  
(probably mostly not) have had certified thermometers known to read  
accurately, and there has never been a "real" climate data system  
designed to collect the pertinent data, and even if there were one  
now, it certainly did not exist prior to the 1970s.


The last major heat wave we had was quite similar here to the 1930s --  
my mother lived through it.  Just a couple degrees and a couple days  
short of the record set then.


Climate scientists are well aware of the need to interpolate missing  
data, corrections necessary due to what are very obviously reporting  
errors, and so forth, and that information is included in their  
research papers if you bother to read them and understand them.


Some layman nut writing under an assumed name shouldn't get the time  
of day, let alone credibility.


I strongly suggest you learn some climate science and scientific  
methodology before you criticize someone's work.


Reminds me of the climate "scientist" who was blowing some years back  
that in HIS part of climate research (the upper reaches of the  
stratosphere) the temperatures were not changing and therefore there  
was no "climate change".  Only surface temps were changing, so he  
assumed (and bloviated) that the CLIMATE couldn't be changing because  
above 100,000 ft altitude he wasn't seeing anything.  Fine if you live  
on the edges of space, I suppose, but all the humans I know of live  
below 12,000 ft altitude and on the physical surface of the planet,  
which he agreed WAS heating up.


This sort of nonsense gives science a bad name, which is, after all,  
the entire and complete point of all the nonsense you referred to.   
Once we can discredit science we can get right back to Divine Right  
and get to persecuting heretics while stealing everything.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] FWIW A WW-2 TALE

[Larry Turner]

I agree with you completely about the Republican party - except for a 
few well meaning individuals they are all RINOs.That old saying 
about how power corrupts is very appropriate.


Larry

On 5/29/2014 2:45 PM, G Mann wrote:

I have no wish to offend anyone here with political comment, so please
delete this at your pleasure.

I offer this direct quote for your possible understanding of the conditions
in Congress and DC we now have:
**

Norman Mattoon Thomas - November 20 1884 - December 19, 1968.
A leading American socialist, pacifist and six time presidential candidate
for the socialist party of America. Norman Thomas said this in a 1944
speech:
“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the
name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist
program, until one day America will be a socialist nation. Without knowing
how it happened"
He went on to say: I no longer need to run as a presidential candidate for
the socialist party.

The Democrat party has adopted our platform.



It is my belief the Republican party is now a full member of that same
adoption. Your personal mileage may vary, as your right.

All that said, my Mercedes continue to function without problem. Thank each
of you for your contribution of knowledge and experience to that endeavor.

Grant...




On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 11:32 AM, Scott Ritchey  wrote:


I actually believe current politicians today are different than past
generations, at least in degree.  I suspect media coverage has much to do
with this.  Also, DC seems to seduce well-meaning people who go there.

Scott


-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Larry
Turner
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 6:24 AM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] FWIW A WW-2 TALE

  The 1st problem was believing what the politicians were telling
people.   When the politicians were "selling" the 16th Amendment, it was
said it would only apply to the "super rich" which quickly came to
include a progressive tax on all income from all sources ...


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Re: [MBZ] FWIW A WW-2 TALE

[G Mann]

I have no wish to offend anyone here with political comment, so please
delete this at your pleasure.

I offer this direct quote for your possible understanding of the conditions
in Congress and DC we now have:
**

Norman Mattoon Thomas - November 20 1884 - December 19, 1968.
A leading American socialist, pacifist and six time presidential candidate
for the socialist party of America. Norman Thomas said this in a 1944
speech:
“The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the
name of "liberalism," they will adopt every fragment of the socialist
program, until one day America will be a socialist nation. Without knowing
how it happened"
He went on to say: I no longer need to run as a presidential candidate for
the socialist party.

The Democrat party has adopted our platform.



It is my belief the Republican party is now a full member of that same
adoption. Your personal mileage may vary, as your right.

All that said, my Mercedes continue to function without problem. Thank each
of you for your contribution of knowledge and experience to that endeavor.

Grant...




On Thu, May 29, 2014 at 11:32 AM, Scott Ritchey  wrote:

> I actually believe current politicians today are different than past
> generations, at least in degree.  I suspect media coverage has much to do
> with this.  Also, DC seems to seduce well-meaning people who go there.
>
> Scott
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Larry
> > Turner
> > Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 6:24 AM
> > To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> > Subject: Re: [MBZ] FWIW A WW-2 TALE
> >
> >  The 1st problem was believing what the politicians were telling
> > people.   When the politicians were "selling" the 16th Amendment, it was
> > said it would only apply to the "super rich" which quickly came to
> > include a progressive tax on all income from all sources ...
>
>
> ___
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>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those
> individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
> has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
>
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Re: [MBZ] FWIW A WW-2 TALE

[Scott Ritchey]

I actually believe current politicians today are different than past
generations, at least in degree.  I suspect media coverage has much to do
with this.  Also, DC seems to seduce well-meaning people who go there.

Scott

> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Larry
> Turner
> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 6:24 AM
> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] FWIW A WW-2 TALE
> 
>  The 1st problem was believing what the politicians were telling
> people.   When the politicians were "selling" the 16th Amendment, it was
> said it would only apply to the "super rich" which quickly came to
> include a progressive tax on all income from all sources ...


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Re: [MBZ] FWIW A WW-2 TALE

[Larry Turner]

The 1st problem was believing what the politicians were telling 
people.   When the politicians were "selling" the 16th Amendment, it was 
said it would only apply to the "super rich" which quickly came to 
include a progressive tax on all income from all sources.  At the time, 
there was a general dislike of those who had made huge fortunes as the 
country grew exponentially.   I assume the media stirred those feelings 
to increase the public's  dislike.   Then of course, they needed the IRS 
(who have extraordinary policing powers)  to police the population & 
beat the bushes -  and the public's collective butt -  for every last 
penny.
Just think how nice it would be to have a national sales tax with 
no more "under the table" economies -  every sale would be taxed and 
there would be no deductions (the real estate agents will howl) but the 
people will all have more money to work with - especially the middle class.


All IMNSHO of course   ;-)

Have a great day -
Larry

On 5/28/2014 9:52 PM, G Mann wrote:

At the risk of entering the uber verboten arena of political comment, I
urge note be taken of the social security law as original. Participation
[by law] is voluntary, all money paid in goes to a special trust fund to be
held for those who pay in to the fund and participate [voluntary].

Using the investment rule of 7, what would be the value of 1 dollar, held
in an interest bearing trust fund, for 40 years?

What happened to the trust fund? [hint... see LBJ] Without further
commentary, [by myself]  have we been quietly robbed?


On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 6:22 PM, Mountain Man  wrote:


Grant wrote:

The "army of one" in action... not the "committee of many" such as we now
have running the show.

I would guess that the "army of one" in action might be what another
military president said - ask what you can do... for your country, not
what your country can do for you.
So... if they take my soon-to-be-applied-for social security... I
guess they can have it.  I agree with the concepts the supposed Kock
Bros. say - end Social Security, even though it is my last dollar soon
to be applied for...
mao

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Re: [MBZ] FWIW A WW-2 TALE

[M. Mitchell Marmel]

Need you even ASK?!

-MMM-


On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 8:52 PM, G Mann  wrote:

> What happened to the trust fund? [hint... see LBJ] Without further
> commentary, [by myself]  have we been quietly robbed?
>
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Re: [MBZ] FWIW A WW-2 TALE

[G Mann]

At the risk of entering the uber verboten arena of political comment, I
urge note be taken of the social security law as original. Participation
[by law] is voluntary, all money paid in goes to a special trust fund to be
held for those who pay in to the fund and participate [voluntary].

Using the investment rule of 7, what would be the value of 1 dollar, held
in an interest bearing trust fund, for 40 years?

What happened to the trust fund? [hint... see LBJ] Without further
commentary, [by myself]  have we been quietly robbed?


On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 6:22 PM, Mountain Man  wrote:

> Grant wrote:
> > The "army of one" in action... not the "committee of many" such as we now
> > have running the show.
>
> I would guess that the "army of one" in action might be what another
> military president said - ask what you can do... for your country, not
> what your country can do for you.
> So... if they take my soon-to-be-applied-for social security... I
> guess they can have it.  I agree with the concepts the supposed Kock
> Bros. say - end Social Security, even though it is my last dollar soon
> to be applied for...
> mao
>
> ___
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>
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>
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> individuals are responsible for the content of the post.  The list owner
> has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
>
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Re: [MBZ] FWIW A WW-2 TALE

[Mountain Man]

Grant wrote:
> The "army of one" in action... not the "committee of many" such as we now
> have running the show.

I would guess that the "army of one" in action might be what another
military president said - ask what you can do... for your country, not
what your country can do for you.
So... if they take my soon-to-be-applied-for social security... I
guess they can have it.  I agree with the concepts the supposed Kock
Bros. say - end Social Security, even though it is my last dollar soon
to be applied for...
mao

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Re: [MBZ] FWIW A WW-2 TALE

[G Mann]

This little story is exactly why American won the war. In thousands of
ways, many smaller that the story above, American citizen soldiers fought
to win using the assets at hand.

The "army of one" in action... not the "committee of many" such as we now
have running the show.


On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 10:43 AM, Rich Thomas <
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote:

> Here is one about my uncle who was on this ship when it was sunk. He
> survived, and helped save some of his shipmates.  He is still alive, I
> think he must be about 90 give or take a year or two.  He is a great guy,
> taught high-school shop forever after coming back and getting his teaching
> degree.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Bush_%28DD-529%29
>
> http://www.ussbush.com/index.htm
>
> --R
>
> On 5/28/14 12:22 AM, arche...@embarqmail.com wrote:
>
>> My cousin Pete was a country boy who joined the Army Air Force during the
>> 1930s depression and rose to the rank of supply master sargeant.  When the
>> buildup for ww-2 began, he became a logistics officer and was posted to
>> Britain during the war.
>>
>> As was common during the Great Depression, Pete developed the art of
>> story telling which often didn't adhere completely to the truth, so I can't
>> vouch for the following story that he told us after the war, but it's still
>> an intriguing tale about "can-do" American soldiers of that era.
>>
>> One day during the war Petes CO told him that supplies were badly needed
>> in one of the battle zones, it was his responsibility to get them there any
>> way he could.
>> The only planes available were bombers that had been deadlined for
>> various problems; being shot up, metal fatigue, etc.
>> Pete rounded up all the mechanics he could find and told them to patch up
>> the derelicts as best they could into flying condition.
>>
>> That night he sent out a "Midnight Requisition Squad" to "liberate" all
>> the whiskey they could find.
>>
>> The next day he invited a group of bomber pilots on R & R to a party that
>> evening with promises of whiskey flowing like water. The party was a great
>> success and the tipsy pilots had nearly all signed an agreement to deliver
>> loads of much needed supplies the next day.
>> Needless to say, when the pilots were rousted out of bed the next morning
>> with fierce hangovers and found that they had agreed to fly derelict
>> bombers overloaded with munitions into one of the deadly battle areas, they
>> were not happy.  But their sense of duty prevailed, they delivered the
>> supplies, and all returned safely.
>>
>> A few days later a top level British officer made a furious complaint to
>> the U.S. high command that "thieving American soldiers" had broken into his
>> private store room and stolen all his scotch whiskey.
>>
>> Pete became known as the "go-to" guy if a job had to done one way or the
>> other, and by the end of the war, he had become a colonel. He finished out
>> his career as base personnel officer at MacDill AFB, Florida.
>>
>> Gerry
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
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>>
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>> individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has
>> no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
>>
>>
>
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> has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
>
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Re: [MBZ] FWIW A WW-2 TALE

[Rich Thomas]

Here is one about my uncle who was on this ship when it was sunk. He 
survived, and helped save some of his shipmates.  He is still alive, I 
think he must be about 90 give or take a year or two.  He is a great 
guy, taught high-school shop forever after coming back and getting his 
teaching degree.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Bush_%28DD-529%29

http://www.ussbush.com/index.htm

--R

On 5/28/14 12:22 AM, arche...@embarqmail.com wrote:
My cousin Pete was a country boy who joined the Army Air Force during 
the 1930s depression and rose to the rank of supply master sargeant.  
When the buildup for ww-2 began, he became a logistics officer and was 
posted to Britain during the war.


As was common during the Great Depression, Pete developed the art of 
story telling which often didn't adhere completely to the truth, so I 
can't vouch for the following story that he told us after the war, but 
it's still an intriguing tale about "can-do" American soldiers of that 
era.


One day during the war Petes CO told him that supplies were badly 
needed in one of the battle zones, it was his responsibility to get 
them there any way he could.
The only planes available were bombers that had been deadlined for 
various problems; being shot up, metal fatigue, etc.
Pete rounded up all the mechanics he could find and told them to patch 
up the derelicts as best they could into flying condition.


That night he sent out a "Midnight Requisition Squad" to "liberate" 
all the whiskey they could find.


The next day he invited a group of bomber pilots on R & R to a party 
that evening with promises of whiskey flowing like water. The party 
was a great success and the tipsy pilots had nearly all signed an 
agreement to deliver loads of much needed supplies the next day.
Needless to say, when the pilots were rousted out of bed the next 
morning with fierce hangovers and found that they had agreed to fly 
derelict bombers overloaded with munitions into one of the deadly 
battle areas, they were not happy.  But their sense of duty prevailed, 
they delivered the supplies, and all returned safely.


A few days later a top level British officer made a furious complaint 
to the U.S. high command that "thieving American soldiers" had broken 
into his private store room and stolen all his scotch whiskey.


Pete became known as the "go-to" guy if a job had to done one way or 
the other, and by the end of the war, he had become a colonel. He 
finished out his career as base personnel officer at MacDill AFB, 
Florida.


Gerry



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Re: [MBZ] FWIW

[Mountain Man]

Gerry wrote:
> http://www.infowars.com/breaking-sen-harry-reid-behind-blm-land-grab-of-bundy-ranch/
>

BLM went away today, because the protest happening there was becoming
a national security issue - something about too many people there in
SE Nevada.  My son landed at Mesquite, NV a month ago.
mao

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