Re: [MBZ] Mercedes-Benz 300D 5-Speed MANUAL / RARE '85, MINT
--- David Brodbeck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 9:41:27 -0400, meadedillon wrote > > I don't think that the estate engine was > 'de-tuned' compared to the > > sedan. True, the SLS pump would be a parasitic > loss that the sedan > > wouldn't have unless it had the SLS option. I > think the bigger > > difference is the weight and the wind resistance. > I would imagine > > that the wind resistance for the wagon is higher? > > Probably lower. My experience with other makes is > that the wagon usually has > a lower drag coefficient. It might seem hard to > believe, but that squared off > rear end is actually more aerodynamically efficient > than the notchback sedan > design. The "notchback" allows quasi-stationary eddies and generally lower free-stream air velocities in the notch, which translates into larger drag. DG __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes-Benz 300D 5-Speed MANUAL / RARE '85, MINT
David Brodbeck wrote: > Probably lower. My experience with other makes is that the wagon usually has > a lower drag coefficient. It might seem hard to believe, but that squared off > rear end is actually more aerodynamically efficient than the notchback sedan > design. OTOH, if the wagon has a roof rack...
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes-Benz 300D 5-Speed MANUAL / RARE '85, MINT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Euan, Catching up on digest - forgive if already covered. I don't think that the estate engine was 'de-tuned' compared to the sedan. True, the SLS pump would be a parasitic loss that the sedan wouldn't have unless it had the SLS option. I think the bigger difference is the weight and the wind resistance. I would imagine that the wind resistance for the wagon is higher? During my highspeed run, I was quite suprised at the smoke trail, and feared that my oil consumption rate was too high at that speed for me to continue more than about 10 minutes. With wife, luggage and full tank, I've been able to easily cruise at 90 mph and touch 95 occasionally, but the car is much more stable and well behaved at ~85. I would suspect that your car is not performing at full potential - should be able to reach top speed with two souls on-board, full liquid load and a small amount of luggage (i.e. ready-to-drive condition). Did you have the AC cranking? Head wind would definitely have a large affect at high speed - most of the power required is going into overcoming wind resistance. Don, Yes, 4th gear has a higher top speed than 5th, officially noted in the 1985 TDM. It's a small difference - something like 5 KPH, and due to the engines power band which puts the HP peak close to the max. RPM (4800 RPM HP peak IIRC, max. RPM 5050). The 123 wagon has lower drag/wind resistance than the sedan, but weighs 120 kg (264 lb) more. The two vehicles had exactly the same rated top speed (but the wagon's 0-62 mph acceleration time was more than a second slower). Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 181Kmi,'87 190D 2.5 199Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 227Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 159Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 234kmi Diesel Technical Advisor MBCA, member GWSection http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/mbooth1.htm
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes-Benz 300D 5-Speed MANUAL / RARE '85, MINT
On Fri, 15 Jul 2005 9:41:27 -0400, meadedillon wrote > I don't think that the estate engine was 'de-tuned' compared to the > sedan. True, the SLS pump would be a parasitic loss that the sedan > wouldn't have unless it had the SLS option. I think the bigger > difference is the weight and the wind resistance. I would imagine > that the wind resistance for the wagon is higher? Probably lower. My experience with other makes is that the wagon usually has a lower drag coefficient. It might seem hard to believe, but that squared off rear end is actually more aerodynamically efficient than the notchback sedan design.
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes-Benz 300D 5-Speed MANUAL / RARE '85, MINT !
On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 20:41:29 -0700 Joe Knight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Datacard for WDB1231301A214405 lists engine 617912 10 209857, tranny > 717400 00 048941, paint 929, interior 152. Atta boy, Joe! Craig
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes-Benz 300D 5-Speed MANUAL / RARE '85, MINT !
Datacard for WDB1231301A214405 lists engine 617912 10 209857, tranny 717400 00 048941, paint 929, interior 152.
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes-Benz 300D 5-Speed MANUAL / RARE '85, MINT !
On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 20:40:39 -0400 Marshall Booth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Craig McCluskey wrote: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4561642572&category=6330&rd=1 > > > > VIN : WDBAB53A4FA193738 > > > > The VIN is wrong - the one in the body of the text 123130 is > probably correct. It's a Euro non-turbo 4 door sedan with tex and > anti-lock brakes. Nice car. That car with a 5 spd and the 88 hp 617.91 > engine would be fun. Yup, you're right. I hadn't noticed it before: WDB1231301A214405, where 12313010214405 would indicate a four-speed manual and the 1A indicates a five-speed. Craig
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes-Benz 300D 5-Speed MANUAL / RARE '85, MINT
Don wrote: What? You're saying that your car has a higher top end in 4th than it does in 5th? Unless there is a governor attached to overdrive, that is totally counter intuitive. That's true of MOST Mercedes 5 speeds! All of my 5 spds would go faster or the same speed in 4th. I've owned 3 of them. The TDMs and owner's manuals point that out too. It's unrelated to the governor - it relates to how much power the engine can deliver and at what engine speed. In 5th gear the engine doesn't deliver as much power as is necessary to travel at maximum speed - it will deliver enough more power in 4th gear to permit the car to go a little faster. Either are below the 5100 governor limit (usually the max ground speed will occur at an engine speed of about 4600 +/- 200 rpm). Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 181Kmi,'87 190D 2.5 199Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 227Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 159Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 234kmi Diesel Technical Advisor MBCA, member GWSection http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/mbooth1.htm
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes-Benz 300D 5-Speed MANUAL / RARE '85, MINT
D'uh. Got that completely wrong, didn't I. So did the (so-called) MB fix-it dealer who mentioned these things. Can't tell him so; he's dead at the moment. Thanks Marshall. Euan > From: Marshall Booth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Organization: University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine > Reply-To: Mercedes mailing list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 21:31:25 -0400 > To: Mercedes mailing list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Mercedes-Benz 300D 5-Speed MANUAL / RARE '85, MINT > ... > The sedan and estate engines are IDENTICAL. While the self leveling > suspension pump will drain a little power when pumping, that's > negligable once the engine is started and running for a bit and level > established - then it only needs to add what leaks. The rear ends for > the sedan and and wagon have identical ratios (there were special ratios > for special purpose vehicles).
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes-Benz 300D 5-Speed MANUAL / RARE '85, MINT
Euan wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong (gently), but although the '85 sedan and estates shared the same engine, the estate engine was detuned? Auxiliary systems parasitise power too, so, among other things, the self-levelling suspension system peculiar to the wagons would be draining grunt. I guess gear/diff ratios would also influence velocity. The fastest I've navigated my '85 non-turbo 300TD 5-spd to was 145 kph (90 mph) on a flat plain. Mind you, that was fully (I mean, fully) laden with all the gear a family of women need when travelling, into a slight headwind, on the crap-quality diesel marketed to us here in NZ. The smoke plume was reported from space. The sedan and estate engines are IDENTICAL. While the self leveling suspension pump will drain a little power when pumping, that's negligable once the engine is started and running for a bit and level established - then it only needs to add what leaks. The rear ends for the sedan and and wagon have identical ratios (there were special ratios for special purpose vehicles). Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 181Kmi,'87 190D 2.5 199Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 227Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 159Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 234kmi Diesel Technical Advisor MBCA, member GWSection http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/mbooth1.htm
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes-Benz 300D 5-Speed MANUAL / RARE '85, MINT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mitch, I think that it is possible for this car to get pretty close to 110 mph, certainly it will exceed 100. My '85 wagon with 320k miles on it, with same engine and transmission as this car, has reached an indicated 107 mph in 5th gear (will go faster in 4th gear but I didn't know that before and haven't had an opportunity to find out how much faster since). I've reason to think that my speedometer is pretty accurate, but I haven't 'calibrated' it against GPS yet. If the EGR valve has been disabled, a reasonable estimate is a gain of ~5hp (comparing info from '85 TDM for engine power figures in countries that didn't require EGR - they got an extra ~5hp). The sedan will be lighter than my wagon (lighter still than a US spec car which has an automatic transmission and heavier bumpers). Also, do I see an ABS pump in the engine bay? Unfortunately, the car is beginning to rust - I think I see bubble on the leading edge of the RR fender, and there is a rust stain on the front bumper. Also, the jack points look a little ragged - very hard to tell in the poor lighting conditions used to photograph the car so that it is very tough to see the lower body parts. Will be fun to see how much it goes for! Max Mercedes rates the 123.130 and 123.190 at 150 kmh (94 mph). Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 181Kmi,'87 190D 2.5 199Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 227Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 159Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 234kmi Diesel Technical Advisor MBCA, member GWSection http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/mbooth1.htm
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes-Benz 300D 5-Speed MANUAL / RARE '85, MINT !
Craig McCluskey wrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4561642572&category=6330&rd=1 VIN : WDBAB53A4FA193738 The VIN is wrong - the one in the body of the text 123130 is probably correct. It's a Euro non-turbo 4 door sedan with tex and anti-lock brakes. Nice car. That car with a 5 spd and the 88 hp 617.91 engine would be fun. Marshall -- Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions) "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] '87 300TD 181Kmi,'87 190D 2.5 199Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 227Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 159Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 turbo 234kmi Diesel Technical Advisor MBCA, member GWSection http://www.dhc.net/~pmhack/mercedes/mbooth1.htm
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes-Benz 300D 5-Speed MANUAL / RARE '85, MINT
Don, the engine will put out more power turning at a higher RPM than being 'bogged' down a higher gear. It just won't put out the HP in 5th but it will in 4th. DWS Don wrote: What? You're saying that your car has a higher top end in 4th than it does in 5th? Unless there is a governor attached to overdrive, that is totally counter intuitive. On 7/14/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: (will go faster in 4th gear but I didn't know that before and haven't had an opportunity to find out how much faster since).
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes-Benz 300D 5-Speed MANUAL / RARE '85, MINT
Don wrote: > > What? > > You're saying that your car has a higher top end in 4th than it does > in 5th? Unless there is a governor attached to overdrive, that is > totally counter intuitive. > I'm pulling numbers out of thin air, but saying the car is faster in fourth could be the same as saying it makes more power at 5000 rpm than at 4000 rpm. I once had a car that could pull redline in 4th, (800 rpm faster than peak hp) or go the same speed within one or two mph in 5th (around 600 or 800 rpm below the power peak). That car would have been faster with different gearing.
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes-Benz 300D 5-Speed MANUAL / RARE '85, MINT
On Thu, Jul 14, 2005 at 05:17:14PM -0500, Don wrote: > What? > > You're saying that your car has a higher top end in 4th than it does > in 5th? Unless there is a governor attached to overdrive, that is > totally counter intuitive. Not at all. Lots of vehicles have a higher speed in direct drive than overdrive. My retired patrol car (94 P71 crown victoria) is a good example, 5.0 mustangs and 305 firebirds are another example. It has to do more with the engine's inability to overcome the amount of air and rolling resistance found at a given speed when turning a certain RPM. K
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes-Benz 300D 5-Speed MANUAL / RARE '85, MINT
What? You're saying that your car has a higher top end in 4th than it does in 5th? Unless there is a governor attached to overdrive, that is totally counter intuitive. On 7/14/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > (will go faster in 4th gear but I didn't know that before and haven't had an > opportunity to find out how much faster since). -- Some folks march to the beat of a different drummer. I don't even need the drum. - LT Don 1977 Mercedes 240D (Slug) 1972 Honda CB-500K
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes-Benz 300D 5-Speed MANUAL / RARE '85, MINT
Correct me if I'm wrong (gently), but although the '85 sedan and estates shared the same engine, the estate engine was detuned? Auxiliary systems parasitise power too, so, among other things, the self-levelling suspension system peculiar to the wagons would be draining grunt. I guess gear/diff ratios would also influence velocity. The fastest I've navigated my '85 non-turbo 300TD 5-spd to was 145 kph (90 mph) on a flat plain. Mind you, that was fully (I mean, fully) laden with all the gear a family of women need when travelling, into a slight headwind, on the crap-quality diesel marketed to us here in NZ. The smoke plume was reported from space. Cheers Euan 1985 300TD 5-spd 195K mi ___ Euan S Kennedy Christchurch New Zealand E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Reply-To: Mercedes mailing list <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2005 9:10:27 -0400 > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [MBZ] Mercedes-Benz 300D 5-Speed MANUAL / RARE '85, MINT > > Mitch, > > I think that it is possible for this car to get pretty close to 110 mph, > certainly it will exceed 100. My '85 wagon with 320k miles on it, with same > engine and transmission as this car, has reached an indicated 107 mph in 5th > gear (will go faster in 4th gear but I didn't know that before and haven't had > an opportunity to find out how much faster since). I've reason to think that > my speedometer is pretty accurate, but I haven't 'calibrated' it against GPS > yet. If the EGR valve has been disabled, a reasonable estimate is a gain of > ~5hp (comparing info from '85 TDM for engine power figures in countries that > didn't require EGR - they got an extra ~5hp). The sedan will be lighter than > my wagon (lighter still than a US spec car which has an automatic transmission > and heavier bumpers). > > Also, do I see an ABS pump in the engine bay? > > Unfortunately, the car is beginning to rust - I think I see bubble on the > leading edge of the RR fender, and there is a rust stain on the front bumper. > Also, the jack points look a little ragged - very hard to tell in the poor > lighting conditions used to photograph the car so that it is very tough to see > the lower body parts. > > Will be fun to see how much it goes for! > > Max > > Very respectfully, > /s/ > LCDR Meade M. Dillon, USNR > Digest Lurker since 2001 > 85 300TD 321k miles (Euro 5spd) > '96 Infiniti I30 149k miles (wife's 5spd) > '73 Balboa 20 'Sanctification' > Charleston SC > > > ___ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For new parts see www.buymbparts.com > For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net >
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes-Benz 300D 5-Speed MANUAL / RARE '85, MINT !
I sent the seller an email about this today. Also asked him about the RR fender rust bubble. See his response below. WDB1231301A214405 . eBay's VIN-search doesn't register this VIN - which is on the title. You should be able to decode the actual VIN above. No rust-bubble. Luther KB5QHU Alma, Ark '83 300SD (happily running diesel/WVO mix) '82 300CD slate grey, black interior, 152,xxx mi
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes-Benz 300D 5-Speed MANUAL / RARE '85, MINT !
On Thu, 14 Jul 2005 08:52:25 -0400 John Ervine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Mitch Haley wrote: > > > John Ervine wrote: > > > >>Craig McCluskey wrote: > >> > >>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4561642572 > >>> > >>>VIN : WDBAB53A4FA193738 > >> > >>Something's not right with that VIN... > > > > It appears to be a non-turbo, stick shift, euro bumpered, gray market > > car. I'd like to know where the original headlamps are. > > Yabbut the VIN isn't for a non-turbo, stick shift, euro bumpered, gray > market car. It's for a US-spec astral silver on blue leather '85 300CD > turbodiesel. I thought the VIN was incorrect. I was expecting something like WDB12313010nn. Craig
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes-Benz 300D 5-Speed MANUAL / RARE '85, MINT
its been repainted at some point, not sure of how good a job either. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mitch, I think that it is possible for this car to get pretty close to 110 mph, certainly it will exceed 100. My '85 wagon with 320k miles on it, with same engine and transmission as this car, has reached an indicated 107 mph in 5th gear (will go faster in 4th gear but I didn't know that before and haven't had an opportunity to find out how much faster since). I've reason to think that my speedometer is pretty accurate, but I haven't 'calibrated' it against GPS yet. If the EGR valve has been disabled, a reasonable estimate is a gain of ~5hp (comparing info from '85 TDM for engine power figures in countries that didn't require EGR - they got an extra ~5hp). The sedan will be lighter than my wagon (lighter still than a US spec car which has an automatic transmission and heavier bumpers). Also, do I see an ABS pump in the engine bay? Unfortunately, the car is beginning to rust - I think I see bubble on the leading edge of the RR fender, and there is a rust stain on the front bumper. Also, the jack points look a little ragged - very hard to tell in the poor lighting conditions used to photograph the car so that it is very tough to see the lower body parts. Will be fun to see how much it goes for! Max Very respectfully, /s/ LCDR Meade M. Dillon, USNR Digest Lurker since 2001 ’85 300TD 321k miles (Euro 5spd) '96 Infiniti I30 149k miles (wife's 5spd) '73 Balboa 20 'Sanctification' Charleston SC ___ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] For new parts see www.buymbparts.com For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250 Okie Benz Auto parts-email for used parts
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes-Benz 300D 5-Speed MANUAL / RARE '85, MINT !
Mitch Haley wrote: John Ervine wrote: Craig McCluskey wrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4561642572 VIN : WDBAB53A4FA193738 Something's not right with that VIN... It appears to be a non-turbo, stick shift, euro bumpered, gray market car. I'd like to know where the original headlamps are. Yabbut the VIN isn't for a non-turbo, stick shift, euro bumpered, gray market car. It's for a US-spec astral silver on blue leather '85 300CD turbodiesel. -- John L. Ervine 1981 240D 4-spd 265+kmi 1980 300TD 163+kmi 1980 300SD 277+kmi
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes-Benz 300D 5-Speed MANUAL / RARE '85, MINT !
John Ervine wrote: > > Craig McCluskey wrote: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4561642572 > > > > VIN : WDBAB53A4FA193738 > > Something's not right with that VIN... It appears to be a non-turbo, stick shift, euro bumpered, gray market car. I'd like to know where the original headlamps are.
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes-Benz 300D 5-Speed MANUAL / RARE '85, MINT !
Craig McCluskey wrote: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4561642572&category=6330&rd=1 VIN : WDBAB53A4FA193738 Something's not right with that VIN... -- John L. Ervine 1981 240D 4-spd 265+kmi 1980 300TD 163+kmi 1980 300SD 277+kmi
Re: [MBZ] Mercedes-Benz 300D 5-Speed MANUAL / RARE '85, MINT !
Craig McCluskey wrote: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4561642572 > VIN : WDBAB53A4FA193738 > > Miles: 176000 > > Starting bid: US $6,750.00 > > Item location: Deerfield, Illinois > > Time left: 7 days 18 hours > 10-day listing, Ends Jul-21-05 15:09:26 PDT > "Leather seats"? "Blue MB Tex interior"? Which is it? "This 300CD "CRUISES" on every roadway ! Every component is finely balanced. The car performs throughout its speed range ( 0 - 110mph)" Aha, he edited an old item description from a coupe, and I assume the coupe had a turbo. No way this NA 617 is going 110 mph on a flat road.
